PDA

View Full Version : Technical terminology of strokes.. Need some BIG TIME experts


TwistServe
06-15-2005, 09:07 PM
There are a variety of forehands I do that may or may not know or have names.. I've been hearing a buzz about this "reverse forehand" but it doesn't make sence the way it's been described.

1.) When you take the ball on the outside and hit down the line, you cause the ball to go to curve out a little before it hooks back in. For a right handed player, it curves from left to right to left.. Meat refers to this as the reverse forehand but it just doesn't make sense why they would call it that.. So experts, is this called the reverse forehand?

2.) When you get a high ball where you can almost do an overhead but not quite because it's not high enough.. You take the ball on the insideout, and brush it from right to left (for right handed player).. This can really only be done when the ball is really high; well i suppose you can do it when its lower but its harder to do... This to me sounds like a reverse forehand just because you're hitting the forehand from right to left instead of lower-left to upper-right. This is like a forehand that keeps rotating and meets the ball at the followthrough. Obviously this is only an edjucated guess based on the definition of normal forehands and the dictionary meaning of "reverse"..

let me know... whats your thoughts BB.. please enlighten me on #1 LoL as there is no tennis academic would call that a "reverse" anything

Edit: For #1, the forehand stroke that I'm refering to can be hit cross court, DTL, inside out, any where.. The mechanics of the stroke that I'm refering to produces a left to right to left spin.. If you hit it close to the lines it'll hook into the court. If you hit the not close to the line it'll curve or hook but obviously its already in the court.

Also please bypass all the garbage posts and flames in this thread.. Continue with your expert advise. Thanks :)

Noelle
06-15-2005, 09:18 PM
Robert Lansdorp calls that a reverse forehand because it finishes not on the shoulder opposite the hitting arm, but behind the hitting arm.

takeuchi
06-15-2005, 09:24 PM
if i called it a buggy whip shot.....would it make you happy? lol

TwistServe
06-15-2005, 09:57 PM
So from what I get #1 is an off forehand.. #2 is a reverse forehand.. Thanks for your clarification...

Edit: apparently #1 is just called DTL forehand... I got off forehand from Noelles post in another thread but she clarified it again here.. Thanks Noelle.

Meat
06-15-2005, 10:01 PM
Number one is more of a reverse forehand.

You have your definitions completely wrong, as well. "Buggy whips" are not MEANT for those high balls.

No academic? Lansdorp calls it a reverse forehand.

I'm sorry I'm not a "big time expert", but this is complete bull. Noelle has descriptions and definitions in her posts in the other thread.

Stupid excuses. Just refer back to the "Peace in the Tips Forum" thread.

TwistServe
06-15-2005, 10:09 PM
Number one is more of a reverse forehand.

You have your definitions completely wrong, as well. "Buggy whips" are not MEANT for those high balls.

No academic? Lansdorp calls it a reverse forehand.

I'm sorry I'm not a "big time expert", but this is complete bull. Noelle has descriptions and definitions in her posts in the other thread.

Stupid excuses. Just refer back to the "Peace in the Tips Forum" thread.

Wow its funny when you stop talking about your destroying opponents and start debating on the definition of strokes. So when you're on court do you frustrate your opponents by telling them their kickserve is really a twistserve.. No no its a kicker.. no no its a topspin serve..

Let me guess.. in a little bit I'm going to start hearing about how you starved in india for 5 years, how you're 5'3 and have no power to hit..

I simply asked for definitions but I dont care LoL I hit all the forehands anyway..

Meat
06-15-2005, 10:11 PM
I'm sorry, I have no clue what you're trying to say.

I said your definitions are wrong. And I'm debating on the definition of strokes because you're ASKING ABOUT THEM, MY GOD. Am I supposed to continue talking about "destroying opponents"?

In case you haven't noticed, my definitions of these are constant and definitive. You, on the other hand, seem to think that "off" forehands are DTL and buggy whips are for higher contact.

I pointed it out. You're wrong. Twisthead...go troll somewhere else. Don't ask for peace when you're the largest disruptor.

The people reading want the RIGHT definitions. I wouldn't want them attempting buggy whip forehands on all high balls, would I? Or try to hook things in on the ad side with their forehand.

Maybe it works only for you, since you're an established, always-right top 20 college 5.0 veteran of the boards. Top 20?

Go back and learn English. Maybe it'll provide an excuse for why you couldn't explain it properly.

TwistServe
06-15-2005, 10:14 PM
I'm sorry, I have no clue what you're trying to say.

I said your definitions are wrong. And I'm debating on the definition of strokes because you're ASKING ABOUT THEM, MY GOD. Am I supposed to continue talking about "destroying opponents"?

In case you haven't noticed, my definitions of these are constant and definitive. You, on the other hand, seem to think that "off" forehands are DTL and buggy whips are for higher contact.

I pointed it out. You're wrong. Twisthead...go troll somewhere else. Don't ask for peace when you're the largest disruptor.

I only refered to the "off" forehand because Noelle refered to it.. Wow more personal attacks.. Keep this up and I'm sure TWStaff will ban you like other previous posters that have been banned. You know why me and Phil can stay here for 2000+ posts? Simply because we dont take things personal. Keep up the good work :)

Meat
06-15-2005, 10:17 PM
You and Phil? Uh...weren't you bashing him everywhere else? Didn't he recently insult you?

Take things personal? Wow, you're the ROLE MODEL for that. Bringing grudges everywhere, and making five threads for an argument in one...go you.

The "off" forehand that was "only brought in because Noelle referred to it" WAS THE TOPIC OF THE WHOLE FRICKING THREAD. HAVE YOU NOTICED IT YET?

It also does not hook in down the line on the ad side.

More personal attacks? Well, why not? Until you figure out that you were wrong and aren't the role model you appear to think you are, I'll have to shove it in your face and wave it around.

TwistServe
06-15-2005, 10:18 PM
I'll keep it simple for some folks:

When a right hander slices a serve.. they hit the ball from left to right and thus the ball curves from left to right to left..

The forehand when hit from the ad or deuce court, going to the ad court, can achieve the same spin where the ball goes from left, to right to left.. To do this you hit on the outside of the ball and around. It will hooking into the court. This is not a reverse forehand as the reverse forehand has right to left spin.

Meat
06-15-2005, 10:20 PM
So now you're talking about serves? Same thing, I'll point out the mistakes in your brainless posts again.

And the reverse forehand has left to right spin. Another indicator of what you know. On the ad side, it is used to hook down the line topspin shots.

Why do you insist on making a fool of yourself repeatedly?

Noelle
06-15-2005, 10:22 PM
The off forehand (ALSO KNOWN AS INSIDE-OUT FOREHAND!!!) is discussed in this thread:
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=20278

It is not hit down-the-line. It is a shot that, hit by a righty, is hit from the hitter's ad court to the opponent's ad court.

TwistServe
06-15-2005, 10:23 PM
The off forehand (ALSO KNOWN AS INSIDE-OUT FOREHAND!!!) is discussed in this thread:
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=20278

It is not hit down-the-line!

Thanks for the clarification.. The forehand I'm talking about a forehand that is hit from the ad court or duece court to the ad court. I used the DTL forehand because its easier to visualize.

Meat
06-15-2005, 10:26 PM
Because it is easier to visualize? An inside out "off" forehand is in no case a DTL forehand at all. You are referring to something else all together.

Do you want the actual definitions again?

Once again, it does not "hook in" down the line. By an "off" forehand, he wants to go inside-out, which means running around and blasting a forehand from ad court to ad court, and make it spin OFF the court.

Do you realize an "off" forehand is not hit down the line? Which means it is not from the deuce court to the ad court on the other side?

Listen to yourself.

Noelle
06-15-2005, 10:27 PM
Thanks for the clarification.. The forehand I'm talking about a forehand that is hit from the ad court or duece court to the ad court. I used the DTL forehand because its easier to visualize.
You're talking about a simple DTL forehand if you're a righty hitting from your deuce court to your opponent's ad court.

It's an inside-out forehand, however, when you hit from your ad court to your opponent's ad court.

These are two different shots.

TwistServe
06-15-2005, 10:29 PM
Because it is easier to visualize? An inside out "off" forehand is in no case a DTL forehand at all. You are referring to something else all together.

Do you want the actual definitions again?

Once again, it does not "hook in" down the line. By an "off" forehand, he wants to go inside-out, which means running around and blasting a forehand from ad court to ad court, and make it spin OFF the court.

Do you realize an "off" forehand is not hit down the line? Which means it is not from the deuce court to the ad court on the other side?

Listen to yourself.

Hey I got the definitions from Noelle.. I didn't know she was refering to only the insideout.. review the post.. wow you're real desperate for something.

So from what I get #1 is an off forehand.. #2 is a reverse forehand.. Thanks for your clarification.....

Good think I never claimed the off forehand was anything..

TwistServe
06-15-2005, 10:29 PM
You're talking about a simple DTL forehand if you're a righty hitting from your deuce court to your opponent's ad court.

It's an inside-out forehand, however, when you hit from your ad court to your opponent's ad court.

These are two different shots.

Ya but my point is both can curve from left to right to left. I know because I hit them with my coach all the time :)

Meat
06-15-2005, 10:31 PM
An "off" forehand is ONLY inside-out. It's also all the original poster was talking about in the "inside-out forehand with sidespin" thread, unless you couldn't read the title.

You were posting crap before Noelle had the decency to post definitions.

Real desperate? You're just trying to back out of this with minimal damage to your self-esteem.

This is over. You're completely wrong. You don't even have to wait for BB to come and point it out.

This is my last post in this thread.

Noelle
06-15-2005, 10:31 PM
Ya but my point is both can curve from left to right to left. I know because I hit them with my coach all the time :)
In the thread in question (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=55698&page=3&pp=15) the person was asking ONLY about inside-out forehands.

So now that we've all got our definitions straight, can we please go back to playing tennis?

TwistServe
06-15-2005, 10:33 PM
In the thread in question (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=55698&page=3&pp=15) the person was asking ONLY about inside-out forehands.

So now that we've all got our definitions straight, can we please go back to playing tennis?

Not quite yet.. Meat doesn't seem to think the forehand when hit from from the ad or duece side can produce a sidespin that hooks into the court without using the "reverse forehand".. i'll wait until some experts say the reverse forehand is the only possiblity

Meat
06-15-2005, 10:37 PM
Not quite yet? I KNOW I said that the earlier post would be my last in this thread, but this is just begging for a beating.

I did not say it's not possible to hook in from the ad side on a forehand. However, it is a lot more difficult, and an extreme waist. Why would you be running off the court in an attempt to hit that forehand? That's just incredibly stupid.

What I was talking about was that the sidespin is optimal on the inside-out forehand, which is WHAT THE POSTER WAS TALKING ABOUT.

Not quite over? It IS over. All your arguments have failed. I've already stated the extreme ineffectiveness of wanting to hook with a forehand on the ad side, and everything else.

Yes, let us go back to playing tennis. Just stop posting while you're at it on this subject, your attempts to get the last word are really just showing off your ignorance.

TwistServe
06-15-2005, 10:40 PM
Yes, let us go back to playing tennis. Just stop posting while you're at it on this subject, your attempts to get the last word are really just showing off your ignorance.

Wow I was beginning to think you could keep this up all night, but I realize its getting late and mom will get mad soon..

Obviously a ball will only hook into the court if its near the lines. When I used the word "hook in", I was merely refering to a left to right to left curve. I'm sorry that was so hard to understand. All forehands when hit on the outside of the ball will have a hook that goes from left to right to left.

All backhands when hit on the outside of the ball (left side), will hook from right to left right.

You do not need a special bug or whip, or reversals, or running forehand reversals.. I'm sure these bugs will produce lots of different types of spins as well.

Noelle
06-15-2005, 10:45 PM
If you tried to play a forehand from the ad side when you've been run off the court, you either have a really REALLY strong forehand and you can hit it for a winner...

... or you're Moya and you don't have a backhand.

TwistServe
06-15-2005, 10:47 PM
If you tried to play a forehand from the ad side when you've been run off the court, you either have a really REALLY strong forehand and you can hit it for a winner...

... or you're Moya and you don't have a backhand.

Yes moya hits some really sharp angles with his forehand way outside of the doubles alley even!

Noelle
06-15-2005, 10:49 PM
All forehands when hit on the outside of the ball will have a hook that goes from left to right to left.

All backhands when hit on the outside of the ball (left side), will hook from right to left right.
To visualize:
EDITED: From the center of the court, the outside of a ball is the side of the ball nearest the sidelines of a court. The inside of a ball is the side nearest the center mark on a court.

In relation to a player's body, the inside of a ball is nearer to their body than the outside of a ball.

Is this what you're talking about when you say "inside" or "outside"?

TwistServe
06-15-2005, 10:50 PM
To visualize:
The outside of a ball is the side of the ball nearest the sidelines of a court. The inside of a ball is the side nearest the center mark on a court.

In relation to a player's body, the inside of a ball is nearer to their body than the outside of a ball.

Is this what you're talking about when you say "inside" or "outside"?

The inside of the ball is the side thats close to your body. The outside is the other side.. For a right handed player, the outside of the ball is the right side of the ball.. The inside of the ball is the left side of the ball.

Basically think about how the slice serve works.. You crack the ball from 9'oclock to 3'clock.. You get left to right to left sidespin.. For a forehand you want the same type of brushing motion but since you're going from under the ball you end up on the outside and that causes left to right sidespin as well.

Edit: Yea that defintion is close except when you get a forehand and you're in the ad court, then the center mark definition is off.

Noelle
06-15-2005, 10:54 PM
For a right handed player, the outside of the ball is the right side of the ball.. The inside of the ball is the left side of the ball.
Not quite. Still speaking about right-handers, the outside of a ball on the forehand wing is the RIGHT side of the ball while the inside is the left side.

On the backhand wing, the outside of the ball is the LEFT side of the ball while the inside is the right side.

(EDIT: I could swear I wrote RIGHT there. Oh well.)

TwistServe
06-15-2005, 10:56 PM
Not quite. Still speaking about right-handers, the outside of a ball on the forehand wing is the LEFT(typo)? side of the ball while the inside is the left side.

On the backhand wing, the outside of the ball is the LEFT side of the ball while the inside is the right side.

I thought thats what I said? Well I think you have a typo there.. I was refering to forehands only but ya the backhand would be the opposite.

Noelle
06-15-2005, 11:01 PM
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=442734
The inside of the ball is the side thats close to your body. The outside is the other side.. For a right handed player, the outside of the ball is the right side of the ball.. The inside of the ball is the left side of the ball.
I think you simply omitted (probably unintentionally) the other part of your statement. If you like, you can edit your original post to reflect what you meant, so people won't be misinformed.

Anyway, I was just clarifying what you were trying to say.

Thanks for catching the typo, though.

TwistServe
06-15-2005, 11:02 PM
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=442734

Nope. No typo from me there. If you like, you can edit your original post to reflect what you meant.

Anyway, I'm just clarifying what you're trying to say.

Look at your post. You said the outside and inside on the forehand are on the left side.. :)

Noelle
06-15-2005, 11:26 PM
OK then. :) It doesn't now. Thanks for catching the typo.
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=442739&postcount=27

Kaptain Karl
06-15-2005, 11:37 PM
Twist - You post that you're keeping it "simple" but you are not....

When a right hander slices a serve.. they hit the ball from left to right and thus the ball curves from left to right to left..NO! You're making it seem as if the ball makes a "double curve" with this writing. It does not.

A RH Slice serve curves to the Left ... only. The arc, or path of the ball's flight, may move out to the Server's Right ... and then back to the Left into the Service Court. But the "curve" is only a Left curve.

The arc is described in the air because the Serve is actually *hit* to the Right of the Service Court, allowing the spin to increase the force on the outside of the ball ... and drive it to the Left.

The forehand when hit from the ad or deuce court, going to the ad court, can achieve the same spin where the ball goes from left, to right to left.. To do this you hit on the outside of the ball and around. It will hook into the court. This is not a reverse forehand....The only person I've ever seen successfully employ this shot in a match is Federer. I think it's best described as an "upside down" FH, as the ball needs to be pretty low for the player to be able to catch the outside of it with an angle sufficient to produce the shot.

- KK

TwistServe
06-15-2005, 11:45 PM
Twist - You post that you're keeping it "simple" but you are not....

NO! You're making it seem as if the ball makes a "double curve" with this writing. It does not.

A RH Slice serve curves to the Left ... only. The arc, or path of the ball's flight, may move out to the Server's Right ... and then back to the Left into the Service Court. But the "curve" is only a Left curve.

The arc is described in the air because the Serve is actually *hit* to the Right of the Service Court, allowing the spin to increase the force on the outside of the ball ... and drive it to the Left.

The only person I've ever seen successfully employ this shot in a match is Federer. I think it's best described as an "upside down" FH, as the ball needs to be pretty low for the player to be able to catch the outside of it with an angle sufficient to produce the shot.

- KK

Okay I see that my description was obscure. The curve is right to left, just like a righty slice.. Right to left on the ball path..

WHen I said left to right to left that's basically what meant as the the ball travels from the left (since it leaves your racquet) to the right, and then back to the left.. But you're right my description made it confusing.

I'd have to disagree that Fed is the only one successully using the "upside down" FH. I've seen it many times from safin and a few others, and I practice it regularly with my coach.. though not the same amount of curvature of course

Noelle
06-16-2005, 12:26 AM
Robert Lansdorp discusses the reverse forehand in a March 2001 article in TENNIS magazine. Here is the pertinent section:

Defensive Driving (http://tennis.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=5C6E696A016E4CCEA387FFC08A1E1E2C&nm=&type=Publishing&mod=Publications%3A%3AArticle&mid=8F3A7027421841978F18BE895F87F791&tier=4&id=4C0015C2FCE94492AA380A87ED0E43E7) by Robert Lansdorp

THE REVERSE FOREHAND

If you read my article in the February issue, you know how important it is for you to follow through out in front of the body on your forehand. But now Iím going to tell you to do the exact opposite. A reverse forehand -- popularly called the 'buggy whip' -- is a widely used and effective stroke, particularly when a player has been stretched out wide. Peteís got a remarkable one; all of Steffi Grafís forehands were basically hit in this manner.

The point of contact is late and a bit low. Instead of driving completely through the shot, the racquet comes up and over the same shoulder (for a right-hander, the right shoulder). The ball must be hit from an open stance or it wonít work. A lot of your body weight is on your back foot, and thereís not much of a transfer because the stroke is wristy -- just a whip of the racquet.

What the reverse forehand gives you is more options. You can hit an offensive shot down the line, roll a winner crosscourt, or hit a devastating topspin lob -- unbelievable shots at crucial times from defensive positions. Yes, it contradicts some of the concepts I generally teach, but a good player has to have it. Itís a must. And it can be worth as many as 10 to 15 extra points a match.

To hit a reverse forehand, use an open stance with your weight back (top right). Don't come all the way through the hitting zone (middle right). Follow through over the same shoulder (bottom right).

TwistServe
06-16-2005, 06:14 AM
Number one is more of a reverse forehand.


According to Robert Lansdorp's defintion of Reverse forehand provided by Noelle, the reverse forehand is hit off the back foot and on a defensive position. It has no weight transfer.

Forehand #1 that I described has weight transfer, is hit from mainly a neutral or offensive position, and can be hit with a closed stanced. Sorry but #1 is not a reverse forehand. #1 is a forehand with left to right sidespin meant to curve like a right handed player's slice. KK calls it an "upside down" forehand..

Kaptain Karl
06-16-2005, 07:21 AM
I'd have to disagree that Fed is the only one successully using the "upside down" FH. I've seen it many times from safin and a few others, and I practice it regularly with my coach.. though not the same amount of curvature of courseI didn't post, "Fed is the only one successully using the "upside down" FH." I posted he's the only one I'd *seen* do it.

It figures that other gifted shot makers would begin to use it too....

- KK

Ash Doyle
06-16-2005, 07:34 AM
Twistserve, please stop attempting to start arguments with other board users. Debate and discussion is fine, but you're going after users in what seems to be attempts to pick apart everything they say in a very assinine way. It has become ridiculous and highly annoying.

TwistServe
06-16-2005, 07:46 AM
Twistserve, please stop attempting to start arguments with other board users. Debate and discussion is fine, but you're going after users in what seems to be attempts to pick apart everything they say in a very assinine way. It has become ridiculous and highly annoying.

Ash, I dont even know if you've been keeping up with the other threads. This thread is simply to clarify #1 and #2 in the originally posted item. Meat has insisted #1 is the reverse forehand, and I didn't know what the reverse forehand is until yesterday.

I had mentioned a tip about a forehand that had some sidespin. Meat called it a reverse forehand and that started name calling my abilities because I didn't know the definition of the reverse forehand. That thread got so out of hand that its hard to deciper what was even being argued so I created this thread to get the definition and meat enters and starts to flame again. That's as simple as that. Review this thread again from start to finish and see for yourself.. I simply stated a question and than got flamed. Meats talking about my english is bad and whatever else thats off topic.

Sometimes in a sea of flames, the topic gets lost. The argument becomes less important and it just starts getting personal. Again I started this here as an attempt keep it fresh and on topic.

nViATi
06-16-2005, 08:50 AM
Sometimes in a sea of flames, the topic gets lost. The argument becomes less important and it just starts getting personal.
i've seen a sea of personal flames from you to Kana

TwistServe
06-16-2005, 09:01 AM
i've seen a sea of personal flames from you to Kana

If you point to me the exact thread and post that I became personal towards Kana and also showing that it was not simply a relaliation, I will apologize. Much of my arugment vesus Kana was tennis based. I admit there were a few lines here and there.

And actually I shouldn't relaliate period as I've realized.

Meat
06-16-2005, 10:50 AM
You will apologize? Excuse me for posting again, but almost EVERY SINGLE ONE of your posts was directed hurtfully.

"Tennis based"? "Here and there"? You aren't usually the one retaliating, you were the one that STARTED THE ENTIRE FIGHT BETWEEN YOU AND HER. You seem to have no clue of what you're doing.

Do you want to quotes now or later? Of how you started insulting women, yelling and screaming, and constantly started pointing fingers and directing your age at Kana, when you were the one that was less mature?

Fricking A. I want to know exactly what college you came from.

Mahboob Khan
06-17-2005, 06:03 PM
I guess it is my turn now.

Reverse forehand:

This is a forehand invented by the players through a certain situation. Even Robert Lansdorp has to study it, learn it, and then use it to demonstrate it.

-- This is a "controlling/defensive" forehand.

-- It is used against a ball which might be skidding off a line!

-- As the racket-head goes forward to strike the ball it immediately reverses back to the hitting shoulder. In other words the racket head does not go through the ball, rather it tends to 'reverse' back to the hitting shoulder after impacting the ball.

-- The follow through could be over your head, or over the right shoulder!

This is called "Reverse Forehand" because from point of contact it reverses back.