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View Full Version : Am I the only one infuriated by the praise that Michael Vick has been receiving??


ryushen21
02-11-2011, 11:44 AM
I'll start this first by saying that I am a dog lover and was absolutely appalled by what Michael Vick was involved in and/or allowed to happen on his property and that I don't think that he got nearly harsh enough of a punishment for the crimes he was involved in.

I have been rather confounded lately by all of the positive press that he has been receiving from various sources including the President. More than this, I am absolutely in shock that people are actually saying that he should be allowed to own dogs again.

I understand that for most people the thinking is that they were dogs not people. And I get that. If the choice came down to saving my dog or my kids, it's adios fido.

But I do not understand how anyone can, in good conscience, endorse him being responsible for any animal after what he did or was complicit in allowing to happen. It saddens me that organizations/people throwing around cash gets someone convicted of horrendous acts an endorsement and Presidential support.

r2473
02-11-2011, 11:59 AM
He played well this year. What more do you want?

ryushen21
02-11-2011, 12:02 PM
I'm not referring to his exploits on the field but moreso the actions of those people he is involved with blatantly trying to buy him back into favor with the rest of the world who could not possibly care less about his football abilities.

Power Player
02-11-2011, 12:02 PM
I'm not. The guy went to prison. Prison sucks. He paid the price financially as well. What more do you want? Since going to prison, he has become a much better public speaker and person. He also had an amazing year filled with highlight film plays.

He could have rotted in prison..joined gangs..held a grudge..been a locker room cancer...etc. He came out of it impressively well IMO.

r2473
02-11-2011, 12:14 PM
I'm not referring to his exploits on the field but moreso the actions of those people he is involved with blatantly trying to buy him back into favor with the rest of the world who could not possibly care less about his football abilities.

He played well this year. What more do you want :)

r2473
02-11-2011, 12:15 PM
I'm not. The guy went to prison. Prison sucks. He paid the price financially as well. What more do you want? Since going to prison, he has become a much better public speaker and person. He also had an amazing year filled with highlight film plays.

He could have rotted in prison..joined gangs..held a grudge..been a locker room cancer...etc. He came out of it impressively well IMO.

All of this would have meant ***** if he hadn't performed well on the field.

Power Player
02-11-2011, 12:25 PM
Dude is an unreal QB and is fun to watch. It definitley makes a difference to be talented. No doubt about it.

angharad
02-11-2011, 12:26 PM
It's sports media. They love a redemption arc, even if the person's own horrific behavior is what they need to be redeemed from.

My issue with the whole thing is that there are some genuinely good guys in the NFL (and the wider world of sports) who are far more deserving of praise. I'd rather the media focus on them.

r2473
02-11-2011, 12:28 PM
Dude is an unreal QB and is fun to watch. It definitley makes a difference to be talented. No doubt about it.

No argument from me. He is much more fun to watch now than during his pre-prison days when all he did was run. He could still sling the ball then, just couldn't hit a barn door.

Guy is tough too. I agree with coach Reid. If any other guy took shots like Vick did, there would have been yellow flags flying everywhere. But Vick took his punishment with nary a word.

I'm just answering the OP's question (an answer that I am sure he figured out himself even before posting).

ryushen21
02-11-2011, 12:28 PM
It's sports media. They love a redemption arc, even if the person's own horrific behavior is what they need to be redeemed from.

My issue with the whole thing is that there are some genuinely good guys in the NFL (and the wider world of sports) who are far more deserving of praise. I'd rather the media focus on them.

That's true. Too bad they can't pick something else to focus on.

And I agree with you that there are a lot of ofther athletes that do great charity work that don't get recognized for it.

jswinf
02-11-2011, 12:29 PM
I'm not. The guy went to prison. Prison sucks. He paid the price financially as well. What more do you want? Since going to prison, he has become a much better public speaker and person. He also had an amazing year filled with highlight film plays.

He could have rotted in prison..joined gangs..held a grudge..been a locker room cancer...etc. He came out of it impressively well IMO.

I pretty much agree with this. Vick was sentenced and served his time. Why shouldn't he have a chance to return to his former occupation? It just so happens that being an NFL star generates fame.

I don't think he should be allowed to own dogs again, though. If he misses them, let him volunteer at a Humane Society or other shelter for his dog fix.

ryushen21
02-11-2011, 12:33 PM
I pretty much agree with this. Vick was sentenced and served his time. Why shouldn't he have a chance to return to his former occupation? It just so happens that being an NFL star generates fame.

I don't think he should be allowed to own dogs again, though. If he misses them, let him volunteer at a Humane Society or other shelter for his dog fix.


This is the part that has really been getting to me. The Eagles donating money to the SPCA to get him an endorsement saying that he should be allowed to own dogs again. That, to me, is unfathomable. I think that a percentage of his earnings for the rest of his career should be given to no-kill shelters and he can be allowed to volunteer with supervision.

eliza
02-11-2011, 12:41 PM
Not related to tennis, but I praise you for putting this post. Appalling that a public officer uses his position to call a murderer and his sponsor of second choices......
But, same officer used his influence to get his auntie (illegally here and TWICE ordered deportation) a green card......
Oh tempora, oh mores.

ollinger
02-11-2011, 12:41 PM
There are established penalties for crimes. He served the penalty for his. Taking a percentage of his earnings would likely be unconstitutional (punishments that are cruel or unusual are forbidden; this would be unusual, in that nobody can cite another instance of it.) With all criminals who've served their punishment, there comes a time when we move on and stop interfering in his life. He's done his time and I wish him well.

Dilettante
02-11-2011, 02:28 PM
I have been rather confounded lately by all of the positive press that he has been receiving from various sources including the President.

Money. That's all. The guy means business.

CCNM
02-11-2011, 02:45 PM
Don't think he should be allowed to own any kind of animal. So far I'm glad to see that he is trying to make himself look good again.

Kobble
02-11-2011, 03:10 PM
I'm a little bothered by it. I don't root for him anymore.

Dave M
02-11-2011, 03:10 PM
Shouldn't be allowed to own animals again I fully agree with that.(I'd of thought it'd be a std part of the terms of release to be honest.)
Sadly young (ish) athletically talented people rarely make particulallygood role models.Look at the idiots paid thousands to play in the Premier league in England. I saw an interesting piece by a psychologist who was asked why she thought these "stars" kept getting in trouble.She summed it up something like, "for their whole lives people have succked up to them because the excel at sport, they aren't used to people saying no and often do not know how to react".
Sadly someone will always bail them out.

bad_call
02-11-2011, 03:31 PM
been said that America is a place where people can get 2nd chances. look at Spitzer, TV evangelists, Florida's new governor :shock: lol, etc, etc...what a country. :)

ronalditop
02-11-2011, 03:42 PM
I dont care if the media praise him for his football skills, I only expect that he isnt allowed to own animals ever again and, if he is really sorry for what he did, he should willfully donate money to no kill animal shelters for a long time, at least while his career allows him to.

The Wreck
02-11-2011, 04:02 PM
I see what you guys are saying about the never being allowed to own animals, but I'll be in the minority here and say I don't agree.

This is different, in my opinion, than an abusive dog owner. These weren't his "pets". This was an operation that was essentially being financed by him, and not much else. It was horrendous, yes. But I think letting him have a pet would be a good thing.

If he were allowed to have a dog, an actual PET, it would be a positive way to bring closure to the situation. If he develops and emotional connection with the dog, it would allow him to see the severity of his earlier actions. To me, it would be the ultimate form of healing and realizing true regret.

Just my .02 cents. If he's everything he says he is, then I think it could be positive.

10ACE
02-11-2011, 04:15 PM
I'm not. The guy went to prison. Prison sucks. He paid the price financially as well. What more do you want? Since going to prison, he has become a much better public speaker and person. He also had an amazing year filled with highlight film plays.

He could have rotted in prison..joined gangs..held a grudge..been a locker room cancer...etc. He came out of it impressively well IMO.

BAM Vick paid his dues. He does more good then harm now- advocate for animals right now too the bad press and actions of his past and his crime has brought much more attention to illegal dog fights.

Think how much the cleveland browns wished they had him!

Fedace
02-11-2011, 04:33 PM
I'll start this first by saying that I am a dog lover and was absolutely appalled by what Michael Vick was involved in and/or allowed to happen on his property and that I don't think that he got nearly harsh enough of a punishment for the crimes he was involved in.

I have been rather confounded lately by all of the positive press that he has been receiving from various sources including the President. More than this, I am absolutely in shock that people are actually saying that he should be allowed to own dogs again.

I understand that for most people the thinking is that they were dogs not people. And I get that. If the choice came down to saving my dog or my kids, it's adios fido.

But I do not understand how anyone can, in good conscience, endorse him being responsible for any animal after what he did or was complicit in allowing to happen. It saddens me that organizations/people throwing around cash gets someone convicted of horrendous acts an endorsement and Presidential support.

He only killed some dogs not humans. Ray Lewis stabbed someone few times and he is heralded as next hall of famer. and noone is talking about that incident anymore.....

angharad
02-11-2011, 04:35 PM
BAM Vick paid his dues. He does more good then harm now- advocate for animals right now too the bad press and actions of his past and his crime has brought much more attention to illegal dog fights.

Think how much the cleveland browns wished they had him!

I believe much of his advocacy is court-ordered. I've been looking for the actual terms of his parole, which I'm 99.9% positive included public outreach stuff, but I've had little luck so far.

He did, however, just refuse to meet one of "his" dogs that was rescued, rehabilitated, and adopted. His refusal came immediately after collecting the key to the city of Dallas.

fruitytennis1
02-11-2011, 05:54 PM
I see what you guys are saying about the never being allowed to own animals, but I'll be in the minority here and say I don't agree.

This is different, in my opinion, than an abusive dog owner. These weren't his "pets". This was an operation that was essentially being financed by him, and not much else. It was horrendous, yes. But I think letting him have a pet would be a good thing.

If he were allowed to have a dog, an actual PET, it would be a positive way to bring closure to the situation. If he develops and emotional connection with the dog, it would allow him to see the severity of his earlier actions. To me, it would be the ultimate form of healing and realizing true regret.

Just my .02 cents. If he's everything he says he is, then I think it could be positive.

I kind of agree with this.
Also i say everyone deserves a second chances(most instances)

maverick66
02-11-2011, 06:05 PM
He only killed some dogs not humans. Ray Lewis stabbed someone few times and he is heralded as next hall of famer. and noone is talking about that incident anymore.....

Ray Lewis was at a bar where someone got stabbed. He was questioned because he knew the people involved. He never stabbed anyone.

I dont get the people saying let him have dogs so he can see his mistake. Thats like saying let a rapist have sex with women so he can see how it feels when its not illegal. It just doesnt really make sense.

The Wreck
02-11-2011, 06:36 PM
Ray Lewis was at a bar where someone got stabbed. He was questioned because he knew the people involved. He never stabbed anyone.

I dont get the people saying let him have dogs so he can see his mistake. Thats like saying let a rapist have sex with women so he can see how it feels when its not illegal. It just doesnt really make sense.

I'm not sticking up for him, but he was essentially a money backer for the whole thing...he wasn't primarily involved in the actual killing/beating/fighting, though he certainly partook at some point.

And there is a vast difference between owning a dog for the sake of fighting (like he did), and owning one as a pet. The dogs in that kennel weren't 'pets', they were investments, killers. Its not like he had a pet dog and then killed it one day. Those are vastly different circumstances.

And despite how naive people want to be, dog fighting is a widely popular and legal sport in many places throughout the world. Saying Vick and Vick alone should be deprived of ever leading a normal life again because he partook in an (illegal) activity is awfully harsh as well.

Again, not defending him, just voicing some opinions. He was absolutely wrong, but really...what do you people who are against actually think he's gonna do with a dog assuming he even wants one? Fight it? Abuse it? Ha. If he ever got a pet, it would be so highly scrutinized that even if he wanted to do such a thing (I dont believe he does) there would be no way he could get away with it.

HunterST
02-11-2011, 06:40 PM
I dont care if the media praise him for his football skills, I only expect that he isnt allowed to own animals ever again and, if he is really sorry for what he did, he should willfully donate money to no kill animal shelters for a long time, at least while his career allows him to.

Absolutely. The ONLY way he could be redeemed, in my mind, is if he saved more animals than he harmed.

I understand that he played well and that shouldn't be sugar coated, but the guy demonstrated his character with the dog fighting. I don't care how much time he spent in prison, he still took pleasure in killing and torturing dogs. I really doubt that he feels remorse for his actions. He regrets getting caught, but I have no doubt that he would still be dog fighting if laws against it didn't exist.

HunterST
02-11-2011, 06:45 PM
I'm not sticking up for him, but he was essentially a money backer for the whole thing...he wasn't primarily involved in the actual killing/beating/fighting, though he certainly partook at some point.

And there is a vast difference between owning a dog for the sake of fighting (like he did), and owning one as a pet. The dogs in that kennel weren't 'pets', they were investments, killers. Its not like he had a pet dog and then killed it one day. Those are vastly different circumstances.

And despite how naive people want to be, dog fighting is a widely popular and legal sport in many places throughout the world. Saying Vick and Vick alone should be deprived of ever leading a normal life again because he partook in an (illegal) activity is awfully harsh as well.

Again, not defending him, just voicing some opinions. He was absolutely wrong, but really...what do you people who are against actually think he's gonna do with a dog assuming he even wants one? Fight it? Abuse it? Ha. If he ever got a pet, it would be so highly scrutinized that even if he wanted to do such a thing (I dont believe he does) there would be no way he could get away with it.

I agree. You remember that abusive mother who beat her child, didn't give him adequate food, and forced him to eat his own feces? Well she wasn't thinking of that as her child. Having a kid to abuse and having a kid as a child are vastly different circumstances.

Really, throughout the world and in history people have abused their kids. Why should this woman alone face so much persecution?

tennisnoob3
02-11-2011, 06:46 PM
Absolutely. The ONLY way he could be redeemed, in my mind, is if he saved more animals than he harmed.

I understand that he played well and that shouldn't be sugar coated, but the guy demonstrated his character with the dog fighting. I don't care how much time he spent in prison, he still took pleasure in killing and torturing dogs. I really doubt that he feels remorse for his actions. He regrets getting caught, but I have no doubt that he would still be dog fighting if laws against it didn't exist.

like the wreck said, i dont think he actually participated, just backed it up with money.

the guys is still bankrupt fwiw....

he has done a ton of community service, on his own, by going around to local schools and talking about a lot of things, and it has received great attention and praise from those in attendance, thus the praise.

http://www.wtnh.com/dpp/news/education/michael-vick-dog-fighting-new-haven-students

HunterST
02-11-2011, 07:24 PM
like the wreck said, i dont think he actually participated, just backed it up with money.

the guys is still bankrupt fwiw....

he has done a ton of community service, on his own, by going around to local schools and talking about a lot of things, and it has received great attention and praise from those in attendance, thus the praise.

http://www.wtnh.com/dpp/news/education/michael-vick-dog-fighting-new-haven-students

You really believe he owned a dog fighting organization and never participated in any of the fighting or treated the dogs brutally? That seems quite naive.

As I said, I don't care how much PR he does, how much time he spent in jail, or how many speeches he gives. He's shown the type of character he has. I've always believed a good way to measure someone's character is to look at how they treat those that they have no reason to treat well. Well, Vick forces them to fight to the death and electrocutes and slams the losers to death. Not the kind of guy that I root for.

tennisnoob3
02-11-2011, 07:28 PM
You really believe he owned a dog fighting organization and never participated in any of the fighting or treated the dogs brutally? That seems quite naive.

As I said, I don't care how much PR he does, how much time he spent in jail, or how many speeches he gives. He's showed the type of character he has. I've always believed a good way to measure someone's character is to look at how they treat those that they have no reason to treat well. Well, Vick forces them to fight to the death and electrocutes and slams the losers to death. Not the kind of guy that I root for.

jeez, thats a terrible mentality. you're judging him solely off a single, albeit his lowest, action? if i judged you that way, what would my view be of you or the rest of the world?

HunterST
02-11-2011, 07:33 PM
jeez, thats a terrible mentality. you're judging him solely off a single, albeit his lowest, action? if i judged you that way, what would my view be of you or the rest of the world?

Yeah, I've never understood why people only judge Hitler for the worst thing he ever did.

First of all, it wasn't one action. It went on for years. Second, people are judged based on their lowest moments all the time. Third, most people's lowest actions do not include torturing and killing hundreds of animals FOR FUN.

tennisnoob3
02-11-2011, 07:38 PM
Yeah, I've never understood why people only judge Hitler for the worst thing he ever did.

First of all, it wasn't one action. It went on for years. Second, people are judged based on their lowest moments all the time. Third, most people's lowest actions do not include torturing and killing hundreds of animals FOR FUN.

nvm.....

10char

HunterST
02-11-2011, 07:44 PM
hitler? i'm talking day to day mundane people, should've clarified. people make mistakes of all sizes, but they forgive and forget. he didnt murder a human, yet people act like he should be given the death sentence or executed.

was there any evidence of him ACTUALLY directly harming them? i think peta blew it out of proportion quite a bit.

Doesn't make sense. You can't say it's wrong to judge people based only on their most despicable actions but then say there are exceptions for certain people.

You've got to be incredibly naive if you think Michael Vick owned a huge dog fighting ring and never harmed a dog. Furthermore, financing the ring and, thus, allowing and condoning other people to torture and kill the dogs is just as bad. After all, Osama Bin Laden never directly killed any Americans.

I'm not comparing Michael Vick to Hitler or Osama Bin Laden. I'm just pointng out that the logic for judging people has to be consistent.

maverick66
02-11-2011, 08:00 PM
Yes there was evidence of him directly drowning losing dogs. So he is a bad guy. The guy is and will always be a bad guy. He might not be Hitler(seriously people have to stop calling other people Hitler. There are other bad people in history.) but he is no angel or guy who just financed something.

tennisnoob3
02-11-2011, 08:09 PM
Yes there was evidence of him directly drowning losing dogs. So he is a bad guy. The guy is and will always be a bad guy. He might not be Hitler(seriously people have to stop calling other people Hitler. There are other bad people in history.) but he is no angel or guy who just financed something.

hitler was a wuss compared to stalin anyway, but he never gets mentioned

juanparty
02-11-2011, 08:10 PM
it's USA dude, at least he's not a sexual predator like Ben Rotliesburguer (and he is free) David Megget will spend 50 years in prision due to r@pe a girl.

tennisnoob3
02-11-2011, 08:12 PM
Doesn't make sense. You can't say it's wrong to judge people based only on their most despicable actions but then say there are exceptions for certain people.

You've got to be incredibly naive if you think Michael Vick owned a huge dog fighting ring and never harmed a dog. Furthermore, financing the ring and, thus, allowing and condoning other people to torture and kill the dogs is just as bad. After all, Osama Bin Laden never directly killed any Americans.

I'm not comparing Michael Vick to Hitler or Osama Bin Laden. I'm just pointng out that the logic for judging people has to be consistent.

i realized my view is probably much different than yours, thus the edit.

imo, animals<people. no exceptions. imo, famous people get turned into posterchilds due to their status.

slightly on topic: big ben was never convicted of anything and both "accusations" were withdrawn, no?

wow juanparty read my mind

Underhand
02-12-2011, 12:16 AM
I'm a Vick fan. He should be sponsored by Pedigree.

forthegame
02-12-2011, 12:33 AM
In some people's eyes there is no redemption.
Thank God for Jesus.

stanton warrior
02-12-2011, 12:51 AM
In some people's eyes there is no redemption.
Thank God for Jesus.

You think he's really sorry about it? Or is he just sorry that he got caught?

forthegame
02-12-2011, 12:59 AM
You think he's really sorry about it? Or is he just sorry that he got caught?

Unless you can read his mind we'll never know.

stanton warrior
02-12-2011, 01:02 AM
Unless you can read his mind we'll never know.

I never claimed I can.

It's still interesting how often athletes get the benefit of the doubt.

jmverdugo
02-12-2011, 03:29 AM
I think he paid his dues, came back to his regular life and did it big time. I say let him have his pet, you guys seem to think that he is pe-T-ofile or something like that, do you think he is going to get a chiguagua and make it run over broken glass or something? Everybody is looking at him now.

I for one look back to some things I did when I was younger and regret them, I know that what I did was stupid, it is a good thing that I was not being followed by the TTrs here, other wise I wouldn't be allowed to go in to airplanes, bars and public transportation and couldn't be closer than 300ft of any dog, snake, ant, cat and horses.

It may not be similar but let's talk about the guys that are bullies in highschool and even in college, some of them change for good and some not but then should we not allow them to have friens anymore?

PeterPanda
02-12-2011, 03:36 AM
He paid his dues to society

HunterST
02-12-2011, 05:40 AM
i realized my view is probably much different than yours, thus the edit.

imo, animals<people. no exceptions. imo, famous people get turned into posterchilds due to their status.

slightly on topic: big ben was never convicted of anything and both "accusations" were withdrawn, no?

wow juanparty read my mind

Yeah, that sparks a whole new, philosophical debate. You have to wonder, what makes a human life inherently more valuable than the life of an animal? Is it the human's superior intelligence? If so, then should a person who kills a mentally handicapped person receive a lesser punishment than someone who harms a normal functioning individual? Certainly not. Then what is the difference? Dogs feels fear, excitement, happiness and love just the way humans do.

From the view of humans it's very easy to say human life is more important than the lives of animals. An objective observer, however, may think different.

stanton warrior
02-12-2011, 05:44 AM
Yeah, that sparks a whole new, philosophical debate. You have to wonder, what makes a human life inherently more valuable than the life of an animal? Is it the human's superior intelligence? If so, then should a person who kills a mentally handicapped person receive a lesser punishment than someone who harms a normal functioning individual? Certainly not. Then what is the difference? Dogs feels fear, excitement, happiness and love just the way humans do.

From the view of humans it's very easy to say human life is more important than the lives of animals. An objective observer, however, may think different.

Very interesting point.

Makes you think...
And not just in this case, but also when you look at factory farming.
There's a reason why it's illegal (or soon will be) to speak badly about the american meat industry. If people knew all the details...

dlk
02-12-2011, 06:02 AM
Yeah, that sparks a whole new, philosophical debate. You have to wonder, what makes a human life inherently more valuable than the life of an animal? Is it the human's superior intelligence? If so, then should a person who kills a mentally handicapped person receive a lesser punishment than someone who harms a normal functioning individual? Certainly not. Then what is the difference? Dogs feels fear, excitement, happiness and love just the way humans do.

From the view of humans it's very easy to say human life is more important than the lives of animals. An objective observer, however, may think different.

Eastern thought considers animals sentient; but in a philosophy class I once took, we argued this very subject & seperated humans by virture of mind/consciousness categories: intelligence, sapience, self awareness, etc...But I'm still undecided & do not flush spiders down the port-hole.

maleyoyo
02-12-2011, 06:21 AM
Yeah, that sparks a whole new, philosophical debate. You have to wonder, what makes a human life inherently more valuable than the life of an animal? Is it the human's superior intelligence? If so, then should a person who kills a mentally handicapped person receive a lesser punishment than someone who harms a normal functioning individual? Certainly not. Then what is the difference? Dogs feels fear, excitement, happiness and love just the way humans do.

From the view of humans it's very easy to say human life is more important than the lives of animals. An objective observer, however, may think different.
When people say they love animals, I ponder.
Do they eat meat? Does their family eat meat? Do they know how people slaughter animals for our consumption. Do they use any animal-related products? In some countries killing animals is a spectator sports, do they have any issues with it? If they care about animals as they say they do, I suspect they'd do more for the animals' rights than singling out Michael Vick.
Even with Michael Vick, people are barking up the wrong tree. If they feel his punishment is unjust, their issue is with our justice system, not with the man himself.
For a lot of people, when they say they care about animals, what they really mean to say is they care about their pets, dogs and cats.

stanton warrior
02-12-2011, 06:30 AM
When people say they love animals, I ponder.
Do they eat meat? Does their family eat meat? Do they know how people slaughter animals for our consumption. Do they use any animal-related products? In some countries killing animals is a spectator sports, do they have any issues with it? If they care about animals as they say they do, I suspect they'd do more for the animals' rights than singling out Michael Vick.
Even with Michael Vick, people are barking up the wrong tree. If they feel his punishment is unjust, their issue is with our justice system, not with the man himself.
For a lot of people, when they say they care about animals, what they really mean to say is they care about their pets, dogs and cats.

Spot on!

Which brings me back to the social responsibility thread.

For a lot of people, when they say that they care about people, what they really mean to say is they care about their own family and friends.

As far as Vick's concerned, he got punished like the law states.
I do think that he's the same sadistic person as before, but that in itself is not illegal.

ryushen21
02-12-2011, 11:28 AM
I see what you guys are saying about the never being allowed to own animals, but I'll be in the minority here and say I don't agree.

This is different, in my opinion, than an abusive dog owner. These weren't his "pets". This was an operation that was essentially being financed by him, and not much else. It was horrendous, yes. But I think letting him have a pet would be a good thing.

If he were allowed to have a dog, an actual PET, it would be a positive way to bring closure to the situation. If he develops and emotional connection with the dog, it would allow him to see the severity of his earlier actions. To me, it would be the ultimate form of healing and realizing true regret.

Just my .02 cents. If he's everything he says he is, then I think it could be positive.

It's a hard situation to gauge. I personally don't understand how some people can differentiate between their own animals and others. If I see a dog being abused by anyone, I say something. I've even stopped on the side of the road when I saw people selling pit bull puppies to question them whether or not they are actually checking backgrounds on buyers or if they are just taking cash. That's just the kind of person I am.

I think after he has put in some time volunteering and working with rehabilitating abused dogs then perhaps he could be trusted again to own a personal dog.

I believe much of his advocacy is court-ordered. I've been looking for the actual terms of his parole, which I'm 99.9% positive included public outreach stuff, but I've had little luck so far.

He did, however, just refuse to meet one of "his" dogs that was rescued, rehabilitated, and adopted. His refusal came immediately after collecting the key to the city of Dallas.

I live in DFW and it turned into a pretty big ordeal here. It was the Mayor Pro Tem that issued that key and he did not have authorization from the office of the Mayor to give that key to him. The owner of the adopted dog has a radio show here and has been very, very vocal about the encounter in which he wouldn't look at the picture of the dog or talk to the owner.

I'm not sticking up for him, but he was essentially a money backer for the whole thing...he wasn't primarily involved in the actual killing/beating/fighting, though he certainly partook at some point.

And there is a vast difference between owning a dog for the sake of fighting (like he did), and owning one as a pet. The dogs in that kennel weren't 'pets', they were investments, killers. Its not like he had a pet dog and then killed it one day. Those are vastly different circumstances.

And despite how naive people want to be, dog fighting is a widely popular and legal sport in many places throughout the world. Saying Vick and Vick alone should be deprived of ever leading a normal life again because he partook in an (illegal) activity is awfully harsh as well.

Again, not defending him, just voicing some opinions. He was absolutely wrong, but really...what do you people who are against actually think he's gonna do with a dog assuming he even wants one? Fight it? Abuse it? Ha. If he ever got a pet, it would be so highly scrutinized that even if he wanted to do such a thing (I dont believe he does) there would be no way he could get away with it.

I still think that it is absolutely inexcusable that he did was involved/participated in/had knowledge of the things that were going on and yet with the handing out of a little cash, all of the sudden masses believe he should be allowed to have animals again.

You really believe he owned a dog fighting organization and never participated in any of the fighting or treated the dogs brutally? That seems quite naive.

As I said, I don't care how much PR he does, how much time he spent in jail, or how many speeches he gives. He's shown the type of character he has. I've always believed a good way to measure someone's character is to look at how they treat those that they have no reason to treat well. Well, Vick forces them to fight to the death and electrocutes and slams the losers to death. Not the kind of guy that I root for.

I could not have expressed my feeling any better.

Yes there was evidence of him directly drowning losing dogs. So he is a bad guy. The guy is and will always be a bad guy. He might not be Hitler(seriously people have to stop calling other people Hitler. There are other bad people in history.) but he is no angel or guy who just financed something.

Financed/participated in and was fully aware of.

ryushen21
02-12-2011, 11:35 AM
In some people's eyes there is no redemption.
Thank God for Jesus.

He has forgiveness but redemption I think is still yet to be seen from him. I think him voluntarily donating cash and personal time to volunteering with abused animals would be a nice start.

You think he's really sorry about it? Or is he just sorry that he got caught?

Exactly. He's sorry that he got caught. There is too much cash that is made from dogfighting.


There are some things that I don't think that people realize about what exactly was going on there. I know that I wasn't aware until I saw some of it for myself. Like the fact that female dogs that were chosen for breeding had their teeth surgically removed by a vet and then were tied down to an apparatus called a "r@pe rack" so the male dogs could have their way and not risk injury.

eliza
02-12-2011, 11:48 AM
Eastern thought considers animals sentient; but in a philosophy class I once took, we argued this very subject & seperated humans by virture of mind/consciousness categories: intelligence, sapience, self awareness, etc...But I'm still undecided & do not flush spiders down the port-hole.

How much rubbish. What does this mean, human life superior to other animals? We are animals, in the same line with the others. The alleged intelligence we should have (and Vick is a wonderful example, is not he?) is a very poor excuse. There are humans who live naked, do not have an alphabet, houses, etc.
When somebody asks me if I value the life of my dog mre than a human, I have no qualms in replying yes. He is the most valuable being: b/c his affection and love, attention are what we all know, selfless and unconditional.
We got to the moon, but we still, after millions of years of cohabitation with dogs, are unable to talk to them. Yet, they learn to communicate with US.
Who is the most intelligent. Please.
Vick can go around the world claiming is reformed: for me he is an assassin and should NEVER get even close to any animal.
What would you have done if those had been children?

CStennis11
02-12-2011, 11:53 AM
I'll start this first by saying that I am a dog lover and was absolutely appalled by what Michael Vick was involved in and/or allowed to happen on his property and that I don't think that he got nearly harsh enough of a punishment for the crimes he was involved in.

I have been rather confounded lately by all of the positive press that he has been receiving from various sources including the President. More than this, I am absolutely in shock that people are actually saying that he should be allowed to own dogs again.

I understand that for most people the thinking is that they were dogs not people. And I get that. If the choice came down to saving my dog or my kids, it's adios fido.

But I do not understand how anyone can, in good conscience, endorse him being responsible for any animal after what he did or was complicit in allowing to happen. It saddens me that organizations/people throwing around cash gets someone convicted of horrendous acts an endorsement and Presidential support.

What do you want him to do... Serve life in prison?
I could see if he went back to conducting the dog fights, but as far as we know he shows remorse and is sorry for his actions. Don't tear him down for trying to get his life back in order.

maleyoyo
02-12-2011, 12:00 PM
How much rubbish. What does this mean, human life superior to other animals? We are animals, in the same line with the others. The alleged intelligence we should have (and Vick is a wonderful example, is not he?) is a very poor excuse. There are humans who live naked, do not have an alphabet, houses, etc.
When somebody asks me if I value the life of my dog mre than a human, I have no qualms in replying yes. He is the most valuable being: b/c his affection and love, attention are what we all know, selfless and unconditional.
We got to the moon, but we still, after millions of years of cohabitation with dogs, are unable to talk to them. Yet, they learn to communicate with US.
Who is the most intelligent. Please.
Vick can go around the world claiming is reformed: for me he is an assassin and should NEVER get even close to any animal.
What would you have done if those had been children?

Good for you.
Now make sure you tell the bolded part to your parents, husband, children, and all of your loved ones to their faces. Take that human

tennisnoob3
02-12-2011, 12:02 PM
How much rubbish. What does this mean, human life superior to other animals? We are animals, in the same line with the others. The alleged intelligence we should have (and Vick is a wonderful example, is not he?) is a very poor excuse. There are humans who live naked, do not have an alphabet, houses, etc.
When somebody asks me if I value the life of my dog mre than a human, I have no qualms in replying yes. He is the most valuable being: b/c his affection and love, attention are what we all know, selfless and unconditional.
We got to the moon, but we still, after millions of years of cohabitation with dogs, are unable to talk to them. Yet, they learn to communicate with US.
Who is the most intelligent. Please.
Vick can go around the world claiming is reformed: for me he is an assassin and should NEVER get even close to any animal.
What would you have done if those had been children?

once again, this a debatable topic and your trolling attacks are not needed.

you cannot teach a dog any human language, your statement that they "communicate" with us is far fetched. it has been proven than their intelligence is lower than ours.

eliza
02-12-2011, 12:06 PM
once again, this a debatable topic and your trolling attacks are not needed.

you cannot teach a dog any human language, your statement that they "communicate" with us is far fetched. it has been proven than their intelligence is lower than ours.

If you keep using your standards of IQ, that alone declares WHO is the most intelligent. Most people have a vision of the world according to THEIR standards...
This said, I remain faithful to Leonardo Da Vinci (any question on HIS intelligence?) who, as soon as he collected few coins painting saints and madonna, would run to the market and buy all live animals, to free them.
And who wrote: "there will be an age when animals will be treated with the same dignity reserved to human beings".....
Apparently we are still very very far.

eliza
02-12-2011, 12:08 PM
Good for you.
Now make sure you tell the bolded part to your parents, husband, children, and all of your loved ones to their faces. Take that human

They already know, and agree.

jmverdugo
02-12-2011, 12:12 PM
you are driving on a highway doing 65MPH with all your family on the car, out of nowhere a dog jumps in the road, what do you do?

maleyoyo
02-12-2011, 01:35 PM
They already know, and agree.

I wonder how your children must feel knowing that their mother values a dog's life more than her own children's.
I wonder how your parents must feel having brought you into this world and raised you, then when push comes to shove their daughter would save a dog before saving them because a dog's life is more valuable.
All the love given to you by all people in your family is worth less than the love comes from a dog.

Wow...just ...wow.

tennisnoob3
02-12-2011, 01:43 PM
you are driving on a highway doing 65MPH with all your family on the car, out of nowhere a dog jumps in the road, what do you do?

eliza would flip over the guard rail

eliza
02-12-2011, 02:26 PM
I mean, that question was formulated by an intelligent human????
What's that song that says "how many miles has one...before he can be a man" (or something like that)

T1000
02-12-2011, 03:04 PM
How much rubbish. What does this mean, human life superior to other animals? We are animals, in the same line with the others. The alleged intelligence we should have (and Vick is a wonderful example, is not he?) is a very poor excuse. There are humans who live naked, do not have an alphabet, houses, etc.
When somebody asks me if I value the life of my dog mre than a human, I have no qualms in replying yes. He is the most valuable being: b/c his affection and love, attention are what we all know, selfless and unconditional.
We got to the moon, but we still, after millions of years of cohabitation with dogs, are unable to talk to them. Yet, they learn to communicate with US.
Who is the most intelligent. Please.
Vick can go around the world claiming is reformed: for me he is an assassin and should NEVER get even close to any animal.
What would you have done if those had been children?

Obviously you wouldn't care at all and would probably be defending him

tennisnoob3
02-12-2011, 03:07 PM
Obviously you wouldn't care at all and would probably be defending him

LOL

for a self proclaimed lawyer eliza, you should know the consequences of what would happen if those were children

maleyoyo
02-12-2011, 03:17 PM
LOL

for a self proclaimed lawyer eliza, you should know the consequences of what would happen if those were children

Lawyer from where? Planet of the Dog?

HunterST
02-12-2011, 06:40 PM
you are driving on a highway doing 65MPH with all your family on the car, out of nowhere a dog jumps in the road, what do you do?

That's personal importance, not inherent value. Few would argue that a humans value their families more than dogs (or other humans for that matter). However, that doesn't mean that an objective observer would declare that human life is more valuable.

In fact, if an alien species observed humans and noted that they were destroying the planet with pollution, tearing down the rain forest and causing many species to go extinct, they might note that humans have an overall negative effect on the planet. Animals, however, have a much more commensal relationship with the Earth.

The Wreck
02-12-2011, 07:05 PM
Convicted murderers are released from jail and walk the streets daily. Their actions are infinitely more inexcusable than Vick's. Yet we say that they've shown remorse and are truly sorry, so it's okay for them to be back in society.

But Michael Vick can't have a pet?

Seriously, ignore your bias for a second; what could Vick possibly do that would be so terrible. You think he's gonna fight it? After having his whole life nearly ruined and finally working his way back up, you think he's gonna blow it like that? If this were to ever happen, it's going to be one of the most public and highly scrutinized happenings. If he truly tried to do something absurd at that point, he'd get every last thing he deserved. But jesus, give him the chance. What the hell do you have to lose?

HunterST
02-12-2011, 07:32 PM
Convicted murderers are released from jail and walk the streets daily. Their actions are infinitely more inexcusable than Vick's. Yet we say that they've shown remorse and are truly sorry, so it's okay for them to be back in society.

But Michael Vick can't have a pet?

Seriously, ignore your bias for a second; what could Vick possibly do that would be so terrible. You think he's gonna fight it? After having his whole life nearly ruined and finally working his way back up, you think he's gonna blow it like that? If this were to ever happen, it's going to be one of the most public and highly scrutinized happenings. If he truly tried to do something absurd at that point, he'd get every last thing he deserved. But jesus, give him the chance. What the hell do you have to lose?

Michael Vick doesn't want a pet. Someone asked him if he ever wanted a pet and he said he'd like to get one some day (could he really say no?) The discussion about him getting a pet trivializes the real issues.

jamesblakefan#1
02-12-2011, 07:53 PM
"Infuriated"? He payed his debt to society, and seems to at least on the surface come out of it a changed man. Is he someone I'd want my kids to model their lives after? No. But the incessant moaning about what he did, when there's people in the league that have done much worse (DUI, manslaughter, (alleged) r8pe) is what bothers me more than anything.

jswinf
02-12-2011, 07:55 PM
I mean, that question was formulated by an intelligent human????
What's that song that says "how many miles has one...before he can be a man" (or something like that)

That song's gotta be Blowin' In the Wind by Bob Dylan:

How many roads must a man walk down, before you can call him a man?

tennisnoob3
02-12-2011, 08:27 PM
That's personal importance, not inherent value. Few would argue that a humans value their families more than dogs (or other humans for that matter). However, that doesn't mean that an objective observer would declare that human life is more valuable.

In fact, if an alien species observed humans and noted that they were destroying the planet with pollution, tearing down the rain forest and causing many species to go extinct, they might note that humans have an overall negative effect on the planet. Animals, however, have a much more commensal relationship with the Earth.

im kinda lost, did you just generalize and say that most people value a stray dog more than their family?

if so, you need to seek psychological help.

that is not personal importance, its insanity. hell, pretty sure "driving school" teaches you that you dont swerve around dogs, squirrels, etc. Deer, on the other hand, are worth swerving around if you could make it, because they would do massive damage to your car and possibly kill you

Dedans Penthouse
02-12-2011, 09:28 PM
I wonder how your children must feel knowing that their mother values a dog's life more than her own children's.
I wonder how your parents must feel having brought you into this world and raised you, then when push comes to shove their daughter would save a dog before saving them because a dog's life is more valuable.
All the love given to you by all people in your family is worth less than the love comes from a dog.

BowWow...just ...Bowwow.
fixed yer post ....... (j/k)


phuck vick .

ProgressoR
02-13-2011, 02:31 AM
Who is Michael Vick?

ProgressoR
02-13-2011, 02:48 AM
ok so i just read up about him, seems like a nasty piece of work, torturing and killing dogs.

Then I read he got out of jail and back into the sport earning millions of dollars.

Hang on Hang on

What does it say about "us" that he can waltz back into acceptable society and become enormously well paid? After all for him to be able to earn this money, it means the cash is coming from "fans" pockets.

This is telling, and as disgusting as his acts have been towards dogs, the more worrying aspect is how we as a society are willing to over look the acts of such people in the name of entertainment.

And no matter how many on here are disgusted, the fact he has been playing (what 2 years now) for a major (i presume) team and earning top money puts the lie to the fact that society as a whole is disgusted by him.

We love him!

eliza
02-13-2011, 05:00 AM
That song's gotta be Blowin' In the Wind by Bob Dylan:

How many roads must a man walk down, before you can call him a man?

Thanks....HOW MANY?????????? (b/c let's say it, never heard a woman torturing dogs)

jmverdugo
02-13-2011, 06:08 AM
Thanks....HOW MANY?????????? (b/c let's say it, never heard a woman torturing dogs)

maybe because none of them are famous? (Google it?) (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=woman+dog+torturing)

for instance (1) (http://www.whas11.com/news/crimetracker/Woman-charged-for-allegedly-torturing-dog-puppy-to-death--115586254.html)

for instance (2) (http://www.ktvu.com/news/26490223/detail.html)

for instance (3) (http://www.examiner.com/humanist-in-national/animal-cruelty-s-c-woman-tortures-hangs-pit-bull-dog-for-chewing-bible)

jmverdugo
02-13-2011, 06:13 AM
That's personal importance, not inherent value. Few would argue that a humans value their families more than dogs (or other humans for that matter). However, that doesn't mean that an objective observer would declare that human life is more valuable.

In fact, if an alien species observed humans and noted that they were destroying the planet with pollution, tearing down the rain forest and causing many species to go extinct, they might note that humans have an overall negative effect on the planet. Animals, however, have a much more commensal relationship with the Earth.

I agree with you, in fact it was a tricky question, what if the thing jumping in front of you is a human? would your actions be different? I do not think so, the thing is that some people just jump and talk just with the intention to argue...

maleyoyo
02-13-2011, 06:55 AM
ok so i just read up about him, seems like a nasty piece of work, torturing and killing dogs.

Then I read he got out of jail and back into the sport earning millions of dollars.

Hang on Hang on

What does it say about "us" that he can waltz back into acceptable society and become enormously well paid? After all for him to be able to earn this money, it means the cash is coming from "fans" pockets.

This is telling, and as disgusting as his acts have been towards dogs, the more worrying aspect is how we as a society are willing to over look the acts of such people in the name of entertainment.

And no matter how many on here are disgusted, the fact he has been playing (what 2 years now) for a major (i presume) team and earning top money puts the lie to the fact that society as a whole is disgusted by him.

We love him!

It says a lot about us as a society and our collective value system. We accept the fact that humans are not perfect and we all have flaws. We design a a justice system to deal with people who break the law and after they pay their dues, we welcome them back because we also believe in giving our fellow human beings a second chance.
Whether how one feels about Michael Vick or any other criminals depends on their tastes and their own beliefs, but the principle still stands.
Now it's up to Michael Vick to prove us wrong.

jamesblakefan#1
02-13-2011, 07:02 AM
ok so i just read up about him, seems like a nasty piece of work, torturing and killing dogs.

Then I read he got out of jail and back into the sport earning millions of dollars.

Hang on Hang on

What does it say about "us" that he can waltz back into acceptable society and become enormously well paid? After all for him to be able to earn this money, it means the cash is coming from "fans" pockets.

This is telling, and as disgusting as his acts have been towards dogs, the more worrying aspect is how we as a society are willing to over look the acts of such people in the name of entertainment.

And no matter how many on here are disgusted, the fact he has been playing (what 2 years now) for a major (i presume) team and earning top money puts the lie to the fact that society as a whole is disgusted by him.

We love him!

The man spent 2+ years in jail, paid his debt to society literally and figuratively, lost all of his money and endorsements and is still well in debt to the government. Nice try, but any money he's paid comes from the owner, not the 'fans'.

Donte Stallworth, ever heard of him? He killed a guy while drunk driving. Served 24 days, suspended for a year, now back in the league like nothing happened. Served less time than Vick, oh did I mention he KILLED a HUMAN? Yep, our priorities as a society are straight. Human life < animals. :?

bad_call
02-13-2011, 07:04 AM
im kinda lost, did you just generalize and say that most people value a stray dog more than their family?

if so, you need to seek psychological help.

that is not personal importance, its insanity. hell, pretty sure "driving school" teaches you that you dont swerve around dogs, squirrels, etc. Deer, on the other hand, are worth swerving around if you could make it, because they would do massive damage to your car and possibly kill you

suggest reading again the post you quoted...

President
02-13-2011, 07:52 AM
The man spent 2+ years in jail, paid his debt to society literally and figuratively, lost all of his money and endorsements and is still well in debt to the government. Nice try, but any money he's paid comes from the owner, not the 'fans'.

Donte Stallworth, ever heard of him? He killed a guy while drunk driving. Served 24 days, suspended for a year, now back in the league like nothing happened. Served less time than Vick, oh did I mention he KILLED a HUMAN? Yep, our priorities as a society are straight. Human life < animals. :?

The thing is, two wrongs don't make a right. Yes, Stallworth definitely did a terrible thing, worse than what Vick did. But he doesn't recieve anywhere near as much coverage or praise as Vick does, so naturally the attention on him will be less. Just because there are people in the league who have done worse things doesn't mean its right to praise Michael Vick so soon(although I do think he is either a brilliant actor, or he has turned his life around).

maverick66
02-13-2011, 08:13 AM
The thing is, two wrongs don't make a right. Yes, Stallworth definitely did a terrible thing, worse than what Vick did. But he doesn't recieve anywhere near as much coverage or praise as Vick does, so naturally the attention on him will be less. Just because there are people in the league who have done worse things doesn't mean its right to praise Michael Vick so soon(although I do think he is either a brilliant actor, or he has turned his life around).

This.

I dont agree that while someone else did worse so its ok as an excuse. The guy is a terrible person and will always be one. Anyone that can kill something with no reason is a piece of crap. At least farmers that kill animals eat the dam things. This guy just threw them away after he was done.

And no I dont believe people change they just put on a new face for all to see.

Fedace
02-13-2011, 08:20 AM
Ray Lewis was at a bar where someone got stabbed. He was questioned because he knew the people involved. He never stabbed anyone.

I dont get the people saying let him have dogs so he can see his mistake. Thats like saying let a rapist have sex with women so he can see how it feels when its not illegal. It just doesnt really make sense.

Many of the Press was reporting that it is more like 99.9% sure that it was Ray Lewis that did the stabbing. It just never went to court, i believe.
Anyway, i agree that Vick should NOT have dogs anymore. It is like giving a heroin addict, a BONG for his birthday. But What about CATS ? I think we should let him have Cats..:)

jamesblakefan#1
02-13-2011, 09:23 AM
The thing is, two wrongs don't make a right. Yes, Stallworth definitely did a terrible thing, worse than what Vick did. But he doesn't recieve anywhere near as much coverage or praise as Vick does, so naturally the attention on him will be less. Just because there are people in the league who have done worse things doesn't mean its right to praise Michael Vick so soon(although I do think he is either a brilliant actor, or he has turned his life around).

The thing is, when there's protests and outcry from people over Vick (one Faux News commentator even recently said he should've gotten the death penalty for it). My point is, if you're going to have outcry over Vick, have outcry over ALL the convicted dog abusers and people that have done worse. Don't just target Vick b/c he's in the public eye. He served his time and under the laws of the US, reserves the right to pursue his life in whatever way is allowed under the constraints of his probation. This holier than thou BS from some is what gets me. You waste time being 'infuriated' about a man just making his living, when there's plenty that have done much worse, not just in the NFL but in all walks of life.

For the record I'm a believer in 2nd chances as well, and all for Vick and Stallworth to be able to play if they've served their time.

ryushen21
02-13-2011, 09:37 PM
Well, it definitely seems that I opened a bit of a can of worms. There are a lot of posts that I would like to respond to but I'll just make one post here.

A lot of people have made great and valid points but I'll just start with my personal opinions.

Just to be clear, I never said at any point that I personally believe that animal life is more valuable than human life. If it were between my kids and my dog, it's my kids every time.

However, I place a very high price on the lives and quality of life of all animals, not just my own. The reason for this is that animals, especially those that we keep as pets know nothing more of life than what they are shown and how they are treated by us. That a person would violate that does, yes, infuriate me.

As far as Vick and other criminal athletes, it's despicable that they get away with lesser punishments than a common person just because of their financial and social connections. Everyone should be held accountable for the crimes that they commit and the punishments should be more fitting to the crimes. Murderers, r@pists, child molesters etc should all be sentenced to life in prison without parole at the least, in my personal opinion. No one should be released back into society with those kind of crimes.

Furthermore, I have no issues with Vick receiving praise for his achievements on the field. I'm sure he is a talented player and yes, good for him for coming back strong. My issues come with people praising him for recovering as a human being and saying that he is capable of animal ownership again. I personally do not believe that he holds any remorse for what he was doing and what he was involved in with the dogfighting. The only thing that he is sad about is the large sum of money he is missing out on from no longer having that industry. Dogfighting is very lucrative and that's the only reason why people do it. And unfortunately, it's horrifically widespread (as is cockfighting) because of the amount of money that it brings in.

I think that giving Vick another dog is like giving a recovering heroin addict two weeks out of rehab a full syringe and telling them not to take that hit. It depends on resolve and strength of will. Considering that Vick's income is heavily garnished to pay the fines, legal fees and other fees associated with his conviction, I don't think that he could resist the temptation to bring in some off the book cash to get him back to the kind of lifestyle he was accustomed to. I remember reading an article saying that he only gets about $4500 per month for personal expenses.

All of this is just my personal opinion. But I do not believe that Vick was punished severely enough for what he did. I do believe that he deserves a chance at redemption but he has not shown enough evidence to the world that he has reached that point yet. When he starts showing serious remorse and taking some actions of his own volition to benefit the animals he was involved in abusing and other abused animals, then all of these things can be discussed in seriousness.

Power Player
02-14-2011, 12:52 PM
"I personally do not believe that he holds any remorse for what he was doing and what he was involved in with the dogfighting."

See that's the problem. You don't know the guy or the people involved with the case..you are not even close to the situation and you say something like that. It is just incredibly unfair to say that.

In other words, it sounds like you are mad about something you can not even prove to be true.

Life is to short for that. Time for you to take your mind off it and demo a new stick. :twisted:

jamesblakefan#1
02-14-2011, 01:17 PM
As far as Vick and other criminal athletes, it's despicable that they get away with lesser punishments than a common person just because of their financial and social connections. Everyone should be held accountable for the crimes that they commit and the punishments should be more fitting to the crimes. Murderers, r@pists, child molesters etc should all be sentenced to life in prison without parole at the least, in my personal opinion. No one should be released back into society with those kind of crimes.

Furthermore, I have no issues with Vick receiving praise for his achievements on the field. I'm sure he is a talented player and yes, good for him for coming back strong. My issues come with people praising him for recovering as a human being and saying that he is capable of animal ownership again. I personally do not believe that he holds any remorse for what he was doing and what he was involved in with the dogfighting. The only thing that he is sad about is the large sum of money he is missing out on from no longer having that industry. Dogfighting is very lucrative and that's the only reason why people do it. And unfortunately, it's horrifically widespread (as is cockfighting) because of the amount of money that it brings in.

I think that giving Vick another dog is like giving a recovering heroin addict two weeks out of rehab a full syringe and telling them not to take that hit. It depends on resolve and strength of will. Considering that Vick's income is heavily garnished to pay the fines, legal fees and other fees associated with his conviction, I don't think that he could resist the temptation to bring in some off the book cash to get him back to the kind of lifestyle he was accustomed to. I remember reading an article saying that he only gets about $4500 per month for personal expenses.

All of this is just my personal opinion. But I do not believe that Vick was punished severely enough for what he did. I do believe that he deserves a chance at redemption but he has not shown enough evidence to the world that he has reached that point yet. When he starts showing serious remorse and taking some actions of his own volition to benefit the animals he was involved in abusing and other abused animals, then all of these things can be discussed in seriousness.

I don't get how you can say he didn't get punished severely enough, if you look at most dogfighting convictions he got more time than others, likely because of who he is and the justice system made an example out of him. Same w/ Plaxico Burress' case.

As to whether he should own a dog or not - obviously it's your prerogative and nothing wrong with it. Myself personally I do find it incredibly hard to believe that he would fight the dog the instant he got it or do anything else bad to it. I really don't think it's at all akin to drug addiction, as addiction is a disease while dogfighting is something that a person can learn not to do again once punished for.

DownTheLine
02-14-2011, 01:32 PM
I hate him. He should get no praise and should be treated like dirt.

ryushen21
02-14-2011, 04:18 PM
@PP...my search for PC600s and PT630s continues!!!

@JBF...no one gets punished enough for any crime really. Against animal or human. And yes Vick has an addiction, to money. And that addiction is more powerful than any drug and no one gets over it.

dlk
02-14-2011, 04:26 PM
@PP...my search for PC600s and PT630s continues!!!

@JBF...no one gets punished enough for any crime really. Against animal or human. And yes Vick has an addiction, to money. And that addiction I'd more powerful than any drug and no one gets over it.

But would you allow him to own a dog now?

forthegame
02-14-2011, 04:53 PM
How many more of these threads will we have to endure? One comes up every few months.

maverick66
02-14-2011, 04:53 PM
But would you allow him to own a dog now?

I wouldnt allow you to own a dog never mind Vick.

dlk
02-14-2011, 04:55 PM
I wouldnt allow you to own a dog never mind Vick.

I've noticed you signed out after posting.

maverick66
02-14-2011, 04:55 PM
I've noticed you signed out after posting.

I noticed that I am still here. I stand by my you cant have a dog comment. You shouldnt have a pony either. :)

dlk
02-14-2011, 04:57 PM
I noticed that I am still here. I stand by my you cant have a dog comment. You shouldnt have a pony either. :)

Thanks, you sly dog.

jamesblakefan#1
02-14-2011, 05:11 PM
@JBF...no one gets punished enough for any crime really. Against animal or human.

That's really a biased way of looking at things. We have a justice system for a reason. Is it perfect, no. But Vick served the time that was prescribed to him, which just happened to be more time than most that commit the exact same crimes that he did.

And yes Vick has an addiction, to money. And that addiction I'd more powerful than any drug and no one gets over it.

The money Vick made off of dogfighting is peanuts compared to what he made/makes in the NFL. This is a guy who signed a $130 mil contract in 2005. And that's not including money he made from endorsements and such. It's really jaded to say he was only dogfighting for the money, when he likely made at least 10x what he made dogfighting, in one NFL game.

It's not the money for these guys, it's a culture. Much like cockfighting and horse racing is a culture. Believe it or not, most who engage in dogfighting love dogs. They just have a funny and some would say horrible way of showing their appreciation for pitbulls.

dlk
02-14-2011, 05:18 PM
That's really a biased way of looking at things. We have a justice system for a reason. Is it perfect, no. But Vick served the time that was prescribed to him, which just happened to be more time than most that commit the exact same crimes that he did.



The money Vick made off of dogfighting is peanuts compared to what he made/makes in the NFL. This is a guy who signed a $130 mil contract in 2005. And that's not including money he made from endorsements and such. It's really jaded to say he was only dogfighting for the money, when he likely made at least 10x what he made dogfighting, in one NFL game.

It's not the money for these guys, it's a culture. Much like cockfighting and horse racing is a culture. Believe it or not, most who engage in dogfighting love dogs. They just have a funny and some would say horrible way of showing their appreciation for pitbulls.



I understand 100%. But most folks will never understand. Even my own family are so myopic when it comes to other cultures.

ryushen21
02-14-2011, 09:29 PM
That's really a biased way of looking at things. We have a justice system for a reason. Is it perfect, no. But Vick served the time that was prescribed to him, which just happened to be more time than most that commit the exact same crimes that he did.



The money Vick made off of dogfighting is peanuts compared to what he made/makes in the NFL. This is a guy who signed a $130 mil contract in 2005. And that's not including money he made from endorsements and such. It's really jaded to say he was only dogfighting for the money, when he likely made at least 10x what he made dogfighting, in one NFL game.

It's not the money for these guys, it's a culture. Much like cockfighting and horse racing is a culture. Believe it or not, most who engage in dogfighting love dogs. They just have a funny and some would say horrible way of showing their appreciation for pitbulls.

Undoubtedly I am biased. It's total bull that people get away with things that they do. That any people get away without hefty punishments for crimes is a sad statement about our judicial system.

As for Vick and his money, I don't buy the whole dogfighting culture BS. It's all about money for these people. And even though Vick was making plenty, this was an opportunity for him to make more and keep it off the books. Considering that a fight can make someone upwards of $30k and prized dogs can fetch anywhere from $25k-$50k, your assumption that he wasn't interested in the cash is, I think, rather naive. There were over 60 dogs seized from his property. Do I really need to do the math to make my point?

jamesblakefan#1
02-14-2011, 09:46 PM
Undoubtedly I am biased. It's total bull that people get away with things that they do. That any people get away without hefty punishments for crimes is a sad statement about our judicial system.

As for Vick and his money, I don't buy the whole dogfighting culture BS. It's all about money for these people. And even though Vick was making plenty, this was an opportunity for him to make more and keep it off the books. Considering that a fight can make someone upwards of $30k and prized dogs can fetch anywhere from $25k-$50k, your assumption that he wasn't interested in the cash is, I think, rather naive. There were over 60 dogs seized from his property. Do I really need to do the math to make my point?

No point in bashing my head against this wall anymore. To answer your original question, general closed-mindedness seems to be the reason why you are 'infuriated' over Vick.

eliza
02-15-2011, 04:26 AM
And I counterargue that it is IGNORANCE and easy earned money that allows this player to go around like nothing had happened..........

As for the comment on the judicial system, ask any lawyers and reflect on the answer...............

spot
02-15-2011, 06:11 AM
If he owned a dog that dog would be treated like a king. THat dog would never miss a vets appointment and I'd put money the dog would have its own EKG machine just to make sure that its healthy. He couldn't live with the bad press if his dog was mistreated.