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View Full Version : How do you execute 1 handed bh?


SageOfDeath
06-17-2005, 12:32 PM
I don't really care about what grip to use yet but I have a whole summer to practice and I want to get started on a 1 handed backhand. I would really appreciate images on the contact points and pathway for a topspin backhand stroke and slice. And a drop shot if you could do that too. :D Just give me any information you can give and it would be really appreciated because my coach isn't here to show me how to do one so I'm just by my lonesome.

Marius_Hancu
06-17-2005, 12:35 PM
Analyzing Tommy Haas and his Onehanded Backhand
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=28405

Check related backhand clips at:
http://uspta.com/index.cfm/MenuItemID/1266.htm

SageOfDeath
06-17-2005, 01:28 PM
Dang that was quick just posted this like for 3 minutes and someone responded. Thnx!

TwistServe
06-17-2005, 01:32 PM
I'll tell you one secret about the one hander. Anticiation and preparation. To improve my preparation I am almost always holding a 1 handed backhand grip with my left hand on the throat of the racquet. if the ball comes to my forehand, great.. I can make an split second adjustment. If the ball comes to my backhand, then I can setup right away.. i find that doing this helps a lot. When I'm ready on the backhand the balls scream winner and probably has more pace and spin than my forehand. When I'm late it's not a pretty sight.

SageOfDeath
06-18-2005, 05:58 PM
I'm gonna learn how to use an eastern forehand too so on shots where I have more time to prepare then I can rip if with my FW

Exile
06-18-2005, 06:14 PM
Just have fun with it man, it's summer.
Don't expect to get everything finished at once though.
1hbh is easy, once you get used to the feeling and the timing, which is the hard part...

Do what meg says and work on flatter shots first, kinda like hitting straight through the ball and finishing up at the same time if you make them sail, change your grip a little.

Don't forget to pull back on the throat as you are setting up, that seems to help guide the swing better.

Edit:
Just be sure not to have the racket too close as you swing though.

Kana Himezaki
06-18-2005, 06:52 PM
First, if you're changing to a 2HB...keep in mind the contact point is out in front. Which means you'll need to prepare quickly.

Get in place, and take the racquet back WITH your rotation. You should be pulling the racquet back with the non-dominant hand, to get the racquet in place.

Allow the racquet head to dip (drop , head is slanting downward) with both hands (it's easier to control this way, although it shouldn't matter too much), and whip through the ball with a full followthrough.

Once again, the contact point is out in front. If you've seen any clips of pros, if you watch closely, the arm straightens just before contact. You shouldn't be trying to force yourself to do this, it should come more naturally as long as you're swinging through freely and meet the ball in front.

You shouldn't really be purposely trying to brush up the back of the ball, dipping the racquet head at the start takes care of the topspin. Just push through the ball as much as you can, and the racquet will come around naturally.

Look at the Tommy Haas analysis. While the pictures don't work, the information there is still worth it, and can be understood without the visual aids. Although I'd definitely try to find one, the worst thing possible is getting confused.

FedererUberAlles
06-18-2005, 07:38 PM
I wouldn't tell people how to hit a one hander unless you have one hander...

TwistServe
06-18-2005, 07:41 PM
You shouldn't really be purposely trying to brush up the back of the ball, dipping the racquet head at the start takes care of the topspin. Just push through the ball as much as you can, and the racquet will come around naturally.


When the player gets more advanced *I* would suggest a little supination (clockwise rotation of the forearm) which will add some crazy topspin. First things first, get your timing down so that you make clean contact. Then start adding slight supination which will increase your acceleration and add some nice spin to the ball. I think you'll find that doing what I just described may add more spin than even your forehand.

Kana Himezaki
06-18-2005, 08:05 PM
I would not suggest supination early at all, and especially not to the OP who would probably get confused.

There is a limit to how much topspin is useful. Allowing the racquet to dip, if you get the motion right you'll find a deep ball with plenty of pace, and enough spin to keep it on the court and bury the ball back.

If he even tries the supination (likely when brought up), he will probably get into more of a topspin "craze" until the spin no longer becomes useful. If he decides he wants more spin, I'd certainly wait until he can comfortably and consistently hit deep balls with some topspin. Until he works out the stroke (not just the clean contact), and is comfortable with the change (it may take a year or more for many people for this progress), then he can work on the spin.

If he tries it soon, he'll find more spin, less consistency, become frustrated with the lack of success and lose confidence. When he's comfortable with a smooth stroke and moderate topspin, then he can add on the supination.

I know you said to wait until he's advanced, but everyone tends to overrate themselves early on and wants to try anything deemed "advanced" or "professional". It's human nature. But until they work out the fundamentals and are completely used to it, telling him about supination can only hurt.

"Crazy topspin" is on the bottom of my list on what I want to achieve. It WILL increase the spin, but I wouldn't bring it up yet. ^^ Thanks for adding it though.

Rickson
06-19-2005, 07:31 AM
Once again, the contact point is out in front. If you've seen any clips of pros, if you watch closely, the arm straightens just before contact. You shouldn't be trying to force yourself to do this, it should come more naturally as long as you're swinging through freely and meet the ball in front.

You shouldn't really be purposely trying to brush up the back of the ball, dipping the racquet head at the start takes care of the topspin. Just push through the ball as much as you can, and the racquet will come around naturally.
Two things I have to point out here. The hitting arm is not straight before contact. The 2nd point is, you want to intentionally go from low to high in order to generate topspin because pushing through the ball as much as you can leads to a flat backhand. I'm not saying these things from my observation of others, I use a one handed backhand and I've never in my life straightened my arm before contact. Sometimes looks can be deceiving and you may have thought some pros you watched had straight arms at contact, but it only looked that way. I can see why you'd think the arm is straight because it does look that way, but trust me, there's always a slight bend at contact. I've even been asked if my arm is straight by a 2 hander wanting to try it, and I told her it wasn't. Looks can be very deceiving and unless you try it for yourself, you can easily be fooled by watching clips and attempting to analyze.

Tennis Ball Hitter
06-19-2005, 07:55 AM
The only tip I have for the one handed BH is you have to hit through the ball.

Obviously this is also the thing to do with the FH as well. My point is actually that on my FH, I can "play safe"/"be timid" and just flick my wrist to get the ball in. If I try this on the BH side it either nets or goes into the net.

Kana Himezaki
06-19-2005, 10:22 AM
Rickson, the hitting arm DOES straighten out just before contact. I've got high speed video (a la tennisplayer.net), and there IS proof that Federer, Justine H-H, and other great 1HBs all straighten out just then.

Also, I think I said natural low to high already. Dipping the racquet naturally creates that while keeping the ball about two feet over the net. SO that already works out. :D

I've tried it for myself, just so you know.

I'll go see if I can find any extra proof. It's worth looking into, thanks.

Exile
06-19-2005, 10:52 AM
It is not because they forcing themselves to straighten it out and is not a conscious part of the stroke.

It's because they hold the racket in their other hand as they even begin the swing, so that little bit of energy is being built up.

As you continue the swing, the fact that you are holding the racket closer to you and your arm is already about to swing makes the arm straighted out, but not completely.

Even if the arm were to straighten out completely, it would be after the ball has made contact and your arm would be up in the followthrough.

Even the federer video shows that his arm is not completely straight, maybe after, but the way the muscles look afterwards, i doubt that too.

Kana Himezaki
06-19-2005, 10:58 AM
I've got high speed video of Federer and everything on tennisplayer.net.

When gone through frame by frame, it looks like it straightens out right before contact. Yes, it IS a natural part of the swing, and should not be done consciously. But it DOES happen.

I just need to find video I can actually post of Federer's 1HB to prove it.

Exile
06-19-2005, 11:00 AM
I have that sample video, he never completely straightens it out.

Kana Himezaki
06-19-2005, 11:04 AM
I've got multiple stroke videos that say otherwise. It straightens out clearly in the frame before contact, and remains straight for the rest of the swing.

Can I check the video you found...?

TwistServe
06-19-2005, 11:21 AM
I'll add to this topic.. I have the 1H Backhand DVD that plays over an hour of slow-motion footage from www.advancedtennis.com (http://www.advancedtennis.com/). Each backhand clearly slows a slight bend at contact but it's so slight a person can really consider it straight. By definition I consider straightening is when the elbow is locked and cannot bend anymore.

Now here is a test.. Take out your arm and now straighten it as out fully... That is not how you want to make contact with the ball. Now take out your hand and straighten it such that the degree of angle from your upper arm to lower arm is around 165-175 degrees (it looks straight but not really).. Key factor, your elbow does not lock.

Just because someone uses it doesn't mean they've keyed in on all the little "intricacy" of the stroke. The one handed backhand may take at least several months to really understand after you use it for that long. Sometimes even years!

Lastly I heard Kana is a net rusher or like to play at the net.. Why not switch to the 1 hander since it makes the transition so easy. Most S&V or all court players have a one hander, not two.. Seems more natural.

Now time to go to fatheres day.. no more posts from me.

Edit: Also the takeback can be kinda straight or bent.. Traditionally its bend elbow but guys like puerta have kinda a straight arm takeback (again no locking of the elbow).

Exile
06-19-2005, 11:27 AM
its called bh side 3 or something like that.

Once the elbow is completly straight, the shoulder does all the work, and 1hbh is a product of the entire arm.

So if the elbow were to be straight before the contact point, the energy generated by the elbow would be almost gone, then you would be straight-arming the shot with a stiff elbow.

Using the kinetic chain of the 1hbh, having a slightly bent elbow would add power to it because the elbow still has room to go forward, through the shot.

Considering the extra energy that was generated from holding the arm back by holding the throat before follow-through, that energy would be USED for the stroke, instead of being LOST if the elbow were to become straight before contact.

Tell me, do you straight-arm a forehand?
Is your arm ever completely straight on a FH?
No, we both know you get more power having it slightly bent, and you can't naturally have a straight arm on a fh unless you force yourself to.
Edit: Tennis strokes are usually better when not a forced swing.

Kana Himezaki
06-19-2005, 11:47 AM
It's just what I've got in my own stroke and pro's strokes, since everyone seems to want those.

Your elbow does NOT lock. However, it straightens right before contact -the energy generated from straightening the elbow moves right into the shot. It's certainly not what many would consider bent.

If any of you have tennisplayer.net subscriptions, I'll gladly point it out.

You don't straight arm it. You almost completely straighten the arm right before contact, and it stays like that through the followthrough.

It's not a forced swing. It's a natural progression through the stroke.

Exile
06-19-2005, 11:57 AM
if you watch closely, the arm straightens just before contact.


It straightens out clearly in the frame before contact, and remains straight for the rest of the swing.


Rickson, the hitting arm DOES straighten out just before contact. I've got high speed video (a la tennisplayer.net), and there IS proof that Federer, Justine H-H, and other great 1HBs all straighten out just then.



When gone through frame by frame, it looks like it straightens out right before contact. Yes, it IS a natural part of the swing, and should not be done consciously. But it DOES happen.




Then....


You don't straight arm it. You almost completely straighten the arm right before contact, and it stays like that through the followthrough.



Fun with quotes.

+1

Don't teach strokes you don't practice or haven't used as a large part of your game.

diredesire
06-19-2005, 01:00 PM
Don't teach strokes you don't practice or haven't used as a large part of your game.

I respectfully disagree, many of the world's best coaches do not have the same strokes their players use... it's all about what you know and how you teach/apply it... i think if the suggestions are sound, then the recommendations are valid, which may or may not be the case here with Kana, but so far they look good.

Kana Himezaki
06-19-2005, 01:13 PM
Then....




Fun with quotes.

+1

Don't teach strokes you don't practice or haven't used as a large part of your game.



Unfortunately, I have used them, and continually use them as part of my game.

Straightening the elbow does not mean fully straightening or locking it, as TwistServe said. However, you do for the most part straighten it, and it is right before contact.

I'm off, I have a Father's Day thing to go to as well.

FedererUberAlles
06-19-2005, 03:07 PM
I've got an animated gif I can break down in GIMP.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/80/Federerbackhand.gif

Observations:

Let's use this as a basis. First of all, it can be seen that Federer does in fact "straighten" out his arm before reaching the contact point. He does not straighten it so that it is locked (there is some bend in his elbow), but it is obvious that he does, to some extent, straighten out his arm so that he has a firm contact with the ball.

My thoughs:

First of all, I have a one handed backhand. I'm no expert, but I see the similarities between my backhand and Federer's. I do infact straighten out my arm at the same point as Federer. I do this subconsciously, I've never noticed this before the forummers pointed this out. So, basically it's something that has to be done for an effective backhand, but if you don't do it subconsciously, it is most likely a problem with the height at which you are hitting the ball or just bad mechanics.

Kana Himezaki
06-19-2005, 03:33 PM
Thanks very much for your analysis and picture. :D

I've got videos I can go through frame by frame, I found the same thing. It DOES almost completely straighten out, but not lock, before contact, and it's done naturally if your backhand is set up properly and you're meeting it out in front.

Marius_Hancu
06-19-2005, 03:36 PM
Check BB's analysis on Haas BH given at:

Analyzing Tommy Haas and his Onehanded Backhand
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=28405

It's very good.

Exile
06-19-2005, 11:08 PM
Marius, I can only say that we all should strive to become more like you.
You are so helpful, and not a day goes by where I say to myself, "Damn, Marius_Hancu he is good at what he does."

I speak for everyone when I say you are apprieciated greatly here.
You too BB
You too TwistServe
EDIT: You too Rickson
You too (Just put your name here and pretend I'm talking about you)

Rickson
06-20-2005, 06:25 AM
Kana, I use a one hander and I've been asked on more than one occasion if my arm is straight on contact and the answer is no. I know how to execute a one hander and I know what it feels like, but others think it looks very straightened out at contact, but looks are deceiving. Kana, try the one hander yourself, not a slice, but a topspin drive. The hitting arm looks straight to an outsider, but it's bent at contact. Like I said before, looks can be very deceiving and unless you try it for yourself, don't be so sure because you watched some clips and videos.

Exile and TwistServe are correct. My arm is only slightly bent at contact, but I believe the reason it looks straight to an outsider is because I straighten it out completely on the followthrough. Ex and TS have both said that there is a slight bend before contact and Ex was right in quoting you, making 2 different statements. You first said that the arm is straight before contact, then you said it's almost straight. Which is it? If you asked me, I'd say bent even if it looks ever so slight to the viewer, but the arm is bent. Kana, you give good advice many times, but this is one instance where you really have to know it in order to tell it.

Rickson
06-20-2005, 08:16 AM
edit: found

Kana Himezaki
06-20-2005, 08:46 AM
Kana, I use a one hander and I've been asked on more than one occasion if my arm is straight on contact and the answer is no. I know how to execute a one hander and I know what it feels like, but others think it looks very straightened out at contact, but looks are deceiving. Kana, try the one hander yourself, not a slice, but a topspin drive. The hitting arm looks straight to an outsider, but it's bent at contact. Like I said before, looks can be very deceiving and unless you try it for yourself, don't be so sure because you watched some clips and videos.

Exile and TwistServe are correct. My arm is only slightly bent at contact, but I believe the reason it looks straight to an outsider is because I straighten it out completely on the followthrough. Ex and TS have both said that there is a slight bend before contact and Ex was right in quoting you, making 2 different statements. You first said that the arm is straight before contact, then you said it's almost straight. Which is it? If you asked me, I'd say bent even if it looks ever so slight to the viewer, but the arm is bent. Kana, you give good advice many times, but this is one instance where you really have to know it in order to tell it.

I believe it is almost completely straightened out, or some people DO straighten it out. When given the uspta site, and looking at the "lessons", their lesson for a crosscourt 1HB actually says to straighten out and lock.

Personally, I do just what I said. I naturally straighten out my arm through the swing. When I do this, I don't get into a "locked" position, but I do try to straighten out my arm.

TwistServe
06-20-2005, 08:50 AM
I believe it is almost completely straightened out, or some people DO straighten it out. When given the uspta site, and looking at the "lessons", their lesson for a crosscourt 1HB actually says to straighten out and lock.

Personally, I do just what I said. I naturally straighten out my arm through the swing. When I do this, I don't get into a "locked" position, but I do try to straighten out my arm.

You guys are using the term straighten out too loosely. Does it mean to go from a bent position to a less bent position, or does it mean to make the arm straight. I think Rickson's point is that you don't want a completely straight arm but you do straighten out the arm obviously you aren't going to hit the ball with an elbow bent to 90 degrees.

As for my backhand, i hit it with an almost straight arm too. I dont really think about it. I just explode onto the ball and whatever the arm does at contact is what it does.

Rickson
06-20-2005, 08:53 AM
I believe it is almost completely straightened out, or some people DO straighten it out. When given the uspta site, and looking at the "lessons", their lesson for a crosscourt 1HB actually says to straighten out and lock.

Personally, I do just what I said. I naturally straighten out my arm through the swing. When I do this, I don't get into a "locked" position, but I do try to straighten out my arm.
Do you use a one hander or a two hander? If you use a 2 hander, you're not experiencing the feel of a one hander during game situations. My arm looks straight at contact to outsiders, but it's not. I can agree that the arm is only slightly bent, but it is bent and I'll even agree that it is possible to execute a one hander with a straight arm. Now whether it's proper form or not is a question and I say a totally straight armed 1hbh is not proper form. The only time my arm is totally straight is when I have to reach for wide backhand shots.

Kana Himezaki
06-20-2005, 08:54 AM
Good post for once. ;) LOL, just kidding. On the for once I mean. So it was a good post. Just in case anyone gets confused. :P

Straightening out, for me, does not mean completely locking. It just means straightening out as much as possible as you can do comfortably when hitting. Which is what everyone should just be trying to do. It comes naturally when you want to whack the ball and meet it in front.

akj27
06-20-2005, 08:56 AM
kana, get on aim real quick plz

Rickson
06-20-2005, 08:58 AM
What's your AIM name? AIM beatsliff

TwistServe
06-20-2005, 09:00 AM
What's your AIM name? AIM beatsliff

I think kana is Azn90GurlLuv

Kana Himezaki
06-20-2005, 09:01 AM
Hey, I'm not THAT bad.

I'm xxAzN90GurlLuvxx. LOL. Just kidding.

Rickson
06-20-2005, 09:01 AM
I think kana is Azn90GurlLuv
What's yours? We can have a conference.

TwistServe
06-20-2005, 09:02 AM
What's yours? We can have a conference.

Well my aim is on my profile tag.. unfortunately I'm at work and the connection is being blocked right now.

Rickson
06-20-2005, 09:05 AM
Well my aim is on my profile tag.. unfortunately I'm at work and the connection is being blocked right now.
OK, I'll IM you to give you my info so you know where to send the racquet.

TwistServe
06-20-2005, 09:07 AM
OK, I'll IM you to give you my info so you know where to send the racquet.

I'll AIM you to give you my info after the USO and Fed fires TRoche :)

Rickson
06-20-2005, 09:11 AM
I'll AIM you to give you my info after the USO and Fed fires TRoche :)
My man, we won't have to wait until the USO! Go Federer!