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View Full Version : Synthetic Outdoor Courts????? Like Or No Like


tennisphotog
02-24-2011, 05:32 AM
I am the tennis board rep. at a club, and like all clubs, have to make painful financial decisions about court resurfacing. Does anyone have any experience with NOVA Pro Bounce tennis synthetic courts? Or any other synthetic overlay for that matter???

Thanks
Kevin
Falls Church

Bad Dog
02-24-2011, 01:54 PM
Yes, our tennis facility is looking into new surfacing such as Nova Pro and Deco Turf (along the lines of Legg Mason, U.S. Open, etc.) You might like to call Marc Farthing at Mid Atlantic Tennis Courts & Supplies, based in Northern Virginia. 877-70-COURTS. We met with him around midday today. He is with the company that does many top grade professional event tennis surfaces. He seems quite knowledgeable and willing to be competitive on pricing against other tennis court surfacing experts.

GetBetterer
02-24-2011, 01:57 PM
Is it cheaper?

PeterPanda
02-24-2011, 03:30 PM
prices compared to the hard court courts???

dParis
02-24-2011, 09:33 PM
How about Claytech? Love that stuff.

tenniscourtlover
02-25-2011, 10:08 AM
I would contact Marc Farthing over at Mid Atlantic Tennis Courts 877-70-COURTS. They have an office in VA and MD and work all over VA, MD, PA, DE, NJ, NC. I think they go anywhere. Don't know how they do it..They do all the televised events such as the Legg Mason Classic/US Open series, Washington Kastles/WTT, universities and other top events and facilities. In the past he has been extremely knowledgeable about the various synthetic surfaces. From what I heard from DecoTurf and other synthetic sport surface manufacturers he is the "GURU" of synthetic mat systems since he sold and helped develop systems for the largest international distributor of mat systems. He has traveled the world training and installing various systems over cracked courts and places where you can't get traditional paving equipment. So he is definitely the person to call if your thinking of a mat system. He even has a crack repair system that actually works. I think I may have his reference list which is awesome..

Don't quote me but from what I remember the pricing on their non cushion mat overlay is $2.25psf (10 year warranty), cushion mat system is $3.50 psf (25 year warranty) and the TruBounce/ProBounce goes for somewhere around $4.50 psf (25 year warranty). The heavier system has no dead ball bounces and doesn't feel or sound hollow like other systems..If you ask him he will take you around and let you play on the various systems which is helpful. So depending on what type of surface your looking for its either cheaper or more expensive than going with asphalt overlays or constantly doing crack repair maintenance.

Call the guy and get a free quote..The guy is fast unlike his competitors who don't even return your phone call. :)

tennisphotog
02-25-2011, 10:11 AM
Thanks for the great feedback and contacts!

Hankenstein
02-25-2011, 10:48 AM
I would contact Marc Farthing over at Mid Atlantic Tennis Courts 877-70-COURTS. They have an office in VA and MD and work all over VA, MD, PA, DE, NJ, NC. I think they go anywhere. Don't know how they do it..They do all the televised events such as the Legg Mason Classic/US Open series, Washington Kastles/WTT, universities and other top events and facilities. In the past he has been extremely knowledgeable about the various synthetic surfaces. From what I heard from DecoTurf and other synthetic sport surface manufacturers he is the "GURU" of synthetic mat systems since he sold and helped develop systems for the largest international distributor of mat systems. He has traveled the world training and installing various systems over cracked courts and places where you can't get traditional paving equipment. So he is definitely the person to call if your thinking of a mat system. He even has a crack repair system that actually works. I think I may have his reference list which is awesome..

Don't quote me but from what I remember the pricing on their non cushion mat overlay is $2.25psf (10 year warranty), cushion mat system is $3.50 psf (25 year warranty) and the TruBounce/ProBounce goes for somewhere around $4.50 psf (25 year warranty). The heavier system has no dead ball bounces and doesn't feel or sound hollow like other systems..If you ask him he will take you around and let you play on the various systems which is helpful. So depending on what type of surface your looking for its either cheaper or more expensive than going with asphalt overlays or constantly doing crack repair maintenance.

Call the guy and get a free quote..The guy is fast unlike his competitors who don't even return your phone call. :)

That was the best hidden commercial add i have ever seen on a forum ;)

tenniscourtlover
02-25-2011, 11:05 AM
They should pay all the others on their reference list as well as me a commission. Could use the extra money this time of the year. Funny thing is we thought everybody on their reference list was on their payroll. They were customers but were selling why Mid Atlantic was the only company to go after using other firms and having bad experiences. They had nothing but good things to say about marc and the company..

This is the part where I tell you this offer is for a limited time and quantities are limited so to call NOW!!! And the first 100 callers will get a second one at not additional cost??? Shipping and handling is extra and the television station (in this case website) cannot be held responsible for any products or statements made in this commercial. Don't forget to check out the fine print at the bottom of the screen..Might be too small to read........:twisted:

PlayTheClay
02-25-2011, 11:27 AM
How about Claytech? Love that stuff.

Thanks for the ClayTech endorsement. As General Manager of Har-Tru Sports, we always love to hear unsolicited endorsements about our brands.

ClayTech is a really cool surface. As a mid-level club player and a father of two young girls, if I was building a private court, I would chose ClayTech in a minute. If these are at a club, then I ask about the owners committment to maintenance. With ClayTech, you get all the comfort and game development of a clay court, but with little maintenance...and it can be glued down right over your exisiting (and cracked) hard courts.

One other cool thing...we are now importing real Italain Red tennis clay for infilling and topdressing red ClayTech courts...and these babies are super sweet to hit on and look amazing.

For those who would like to learn more, go to www.claytechtennis.com or call us at 1-877-4-HAR-TRU.

tenniscourtlover
02-25-2011, 11:58 AM
Thanks for the ClayTech endorsement. As General Manager of Har-Tru Sports, we always love to hear unsolicited endorsements about our brands.

ClayTech is a really cool surface. As a mid-level club player and a father of two young girls, if I was building a private court, I would chose ClayTech in a minute. If these are at a club, then I ask about the owners committment to maintenance. With ClayTech, you get all the comfort and game development of a clay court, but with little maintenance...and it can be glued down right over your exisiting (and cracked) hard courts.

One other cool thing...we are now importing real Italain Red tennis clay for infilling and topdressing red ClayTech courts...and these babies are super sweet to hit on and look amazing.

For those who would like to learn more, go to www.claytechtennis.com or call us at 1-877-4-HAR-TRU.



Can you tell us how much the average install is per sq ft? I have heard of it and seen it advertised but can't seem to find many in this part of the country. If its like clay doesn't that means you have to groom it daily if you want it to look good which means daily maintenance? Think there's a company called NGI Sports who has a system called ProClay which isn't glued directly to the cracks but has a more Hartru like play since it has more Hartru material on top of it. They advertise you can play year round. Only downside I see is watering and grooming. Don't know for sure cause I hear there are a limited number of places that have it in this area. However there are 100's of places to play on regular Hartru courts which are awesome but don't like the maintenance.

Can you tell us how much it costs installed and how it compares with NGI Sports ProClay..I would look their information up but don't want to sound like an advertisement.

PlayTheClay
02-25-2011, 12:27 PM
Can you tell us how much the average install is per sq ft? I have heard of it and seen it advertised but can't seem to find many in this part of the country. If its like clay doesn't that means you have to groom it daily if you want it to look good which means daily maintenance? Think there's a company called NGI Sports who has a system called ProClay which isn't glued directly to the cracks but has a more Hartru like play since it has more Hartru material on top of it. They advertise you can play year round. Only downside I see is watering and grooming. Don't know for sure cause I hear there are a limited number of places that have it in this area. However there are 100's of places to play on regular Hartru courts which are awesome but don't like the maintenance.

Can you tell us how much it costs installed and how it compares with NGI Sports ProClay..I would look their information up but don't want to sound like an advertisement.

I have played on both numerous times and my personal opinion is that Nova ProClay would be much better if it was always installed over a hard court and not over sand/stone dust and when installed over a hard surface, that the turf be totally glued down. I found the ball bouce to be dampened in areas due to the lack of glue down. Also, when installed over a stone dust base, it will always be subject to movement and thus potential issues with planarity and ball bounce irregularities. These irregularities are why the Tennis hall of Fame is ripping their NPC out.

Even with all that...NPC still beats the heck out of a hard court!

I do think (totally my opinion) that if they did a full glue-down that the product would be much better. The glue alone retails at about $6500, then add labor to apply it, handling, shipping, etc. So take the NPC price, add $7500 to that for glue and another $12k for asphalt and you can see why ClayTech is pricier. More parts to a ClayTech and less risk equals a higher price.

As for price, you would be better served to contact you local Har-Tru clay court dealer/installer directly or call us at 1-877-4-HAR-TRU.

Where are you located?

Prices will be dependant on condition of the existing court or cost of new asphalt or concrete pad, as well as materials, labor and freight. To ballpark the price, I would guess $35k-$40k for an existing hard court conversion and maybe an extra $10k to $15k if you need to install an asphalt or concrete pad for new construction...plus fence, plus lights.

Its not cheap, but with few to no exceptions, you get what you pay for.

tenniscourtlover
02-25-2011, 12:45 PM
I have played on both numerous times and my personal opinion is that Nova ProClay would be much better if it was always installed over a hard court and not over sand/stone dust and when installed over a hard surface, that the turf be totally glued down. I found the ball bouce to be dampened in areas due to the lack of glue down. Also, when installed over a stone dust base, it will always be subject to movement and thus potential issues with planarity and ball bounce irregularities. These irregularities are why the Tennis hall of Fame is ripping their NPC out.

Even with all that...NPC still beats the heck out of a hard court!

I do think (totally my opinion) that if they did a full glue-down that the product would be much better. The glue alone retails at about $6500, then add labor to apply it, handling, shipping, etc. So take the NPC price, add $7500 to that for glue and another $12k for asphalt and you can see why ClayTech is pricier. More parts to a ClayTech and less risk equals a higher price.

As for price, you would be better served to contact you local Har-Tru clay court dealer/installer directly or call us at 1-877-4-HAR-TRU.

Where are you located?

Prices will be dependant on condition of the existing court or cost of new asphalt or concrete pad, as well as materials, labor and freight. To ballpark the price, I would guess $35k-$40k for an existing hard court conversion and maybe an extra $10k to $15k if you need to install an asphalt or concrete pad for new construction...plus fence, plus lights.

Its not cheap, but with few to no exceptions, you get what you pay for.

Thanks for the good info..Guess I learn something new everday.

MethodTennis
02-26-2011, 03:11 PM
what about artifical grass, thats what i play on quite a lot of the summer and even some of the winter, my better on the joins for the vets.

dParis
02-27-2011, 06:59 AM
Thanks for the ClayTech endorsement. As General Manager of Har-Tru Sports, we always love to hear unsolicited endorsements about our brands.

I've played on it at a club in Wheaton, IL. They replaced their 4 Har-tru with 4 Claytech courts a couple of years ago. At least I think it's Claytech. If not, it's a good copy.:)

I've talked about Claytech in other threads here. Playability wise, it's an improvement over Har-tru except that there is less sliding on Claytech and it might be just slightly less forgiving on the body than Har-tru. Then again, this might be an issue of the amount of top dressing the club uses. I heard they were to increase the amount of top dressing on the courts actually. They may have already done that.

spaceman_spiff
02-28-2011, 03:29 AM
what about artifical grass, thats what i play on quite a lot of the summer and even some of the winter, my better on the joins for the vets.

Artificial grass is the most evil surface ever developed.

First, you get the most horrendous unpredictable bounces due to the carpet not lying flush with the base. No matter how hard you try, there will always be some spots that come up a bit. Some spots cause the ball to kick up; others are dead and cause the ball to bounce much lower than expected. Either way, it's incredibly frustrating and leads to bad tennis.

Second, as the carpet wears down (which happens within a few years on a heavily used court), they become dangerously slippery. This is especially true in the middle just behind the baseline. My club was forced to resurface a couple of courts after people started suffering serious falls, and the courts weren't all that old to begin with.

Finally, carpet takes much longer to dry out. So, unless the rain is followed immediately by warm, dry air, it can take a good couple of days to completely dry out (which means here in England the courts are never dry, even when it's not raining). If you choose to play in that time, you end up playing with wet balls, which is not good for your arm.

So, you end up playing with wet balls, bad footing, and unpredictable bounces, and they don't stand up very well to heavy use.

Bartelby
02-28-2011, 03:51 AM
Interesting. And I share all your experiences, except for the fact that if you live in a hot, humid climate they dry out remarkably quickly so there is maybe a place for them somewhere.



Artificial grass is the most evil surface ever developed.

First, you get the most horrendous unpredictable bounces due to the carpet not lying flush with the base. No matter how hard you try, there will always be some spots that come up a bit. Some spots cause the ball to kick up; others are dead and cause the ball to bounce much lower than expected. Either way, it's incredibly frustrating and leads to bad tennis.

Second, as the carpet wears down (which happens within a few years on a heavily used court), they become dangerously slippery. This is especially true in the middle just behind the baseline. My club was forced to resurface a couple of courts after people started suffering serious falls, and the courts weren't all that old to begin with.

Finally, carpet takes much longer to dry out. So, unless the rain is followed immediately by warm, dry air, it can take a good couple of days to completely dry out (which means here in England the courts are never dry, even when it's not raining). If you choose to play in that time, you end up playing with wet balls, which is not good for your arm.

So, you end up playing with wet balls, bad footing, and unpredictable bounces, and they don't stand up very well to heavy use.

spaceman_spiff
02-28-2011, 05:36 AM
Interesting. And I share all your experiences, except for the fact that if you live in a hot, humid climate they dry out remarkably quickly so there is maybe a place for them somewhere.

True, the dryness depends on the climate, so for some it's not a factor.

However, you still have the other factors. On heavily used courts, they just wear out too quickly compared to other surfaces and, therefore, have to be resurfaced more often. I also think the unpredictable bounces cause people to not develop smooth strokes (which can have bad effects on the arm and other areas). They can't trust the bounce, so they wait until after the bounce and take a late, wristy swing at the ball.

If you watch the juniors that grow up on the courts around here, their playing style is horrendous. They can't take the ball on the rise, they can't swing smoothly, and they can't handle topspin shots on other surfaces.

I swear some of the ones at my club intentionally hit short hoping to get a bad (low) bounce that works in their favor. It's like a topspin dropshot; the perfect disguise.

kevoT
02-28-2011, 05:57 AM
I am the tennis board rep. at a club, and like all clubs, have to make painful financial decisions about court resurfacing. Does anyone have any experience with NOVA Pro Bounce tennis synthetic courts? Or any other synthetic overlay for that matter???

Thanks
Kevin
Falls Church


I used to play at a club (not here in Sweden) and they used to/ still have synthetic grass courts.

The problem is the fact that it's so different to every other surface (bounce, etc.) and if you don't have proper drainage, mold can develop. Sand shifts a lot after rain so going out with a brush. Evening the amount of sand is important. To prevent mold, I suggest going out with a spongy type thingy to soak up most of the water.

That's all I really know. Maybe try the synthetic clay courts!

Overall, if you're playing on HC for most tournies I suggest just go with a hard court.

Bartelby
02-28-2011, 06:09 AM
Yes, the sand ends up on one side of the courts and stays there, but I haven't really seen too much wear and tear on the courts whereas some hard courts seem to acquire dints.