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DE19702
03-10-2011, 12:12 PM
Anyone cross gut with a syngut? What would be the benefits of doing this and would you put the gut in the mains or crosses? I've tried putting gut in the mains with B5E in the crosses and it wasn't as good as either by themselves.

scotus
03-10-2011, 12:27 PM
Gut in the mains.

The advantages are:

Primarily, to reduce cost.

Secondarily, to tame power (for some players).

scotus
03-10-2011, 12:29 PM
High-quality gut is more durable than any synthetic gut out there (given same gauge), so I would not put it in the cross with synthetic gut mains.

Torres
03-10-2011, 12:30 PM
Whatever string you put in the mains, it will be that string's characteristics that you'll feel the most.

No reason why Gut/B5E shouldn't play well. The poly should stiffen the stringbed, help calm the power of the gut as well as helping it slide.

JRstriker12
03-10-2011, 12:49 PM
Gut in the mains.

The advantages are:

Primarily, to reduce cost.

Secondarily, to tame power (for some players).

True. I'm playing with Global Gut in the mains and Iso Speed Classic in the crosses. I like it. Get great conrol and spin, but a little less pop.

DE19702
03-11-2011, 08:02 AM
In my experience the feel comes from the crosses because that is where the power comes from. A poly cross with gut mains are not going to feel like a gut cross with poly mains -- there is going to be less feel. I might try gut crosses with B5E mains just to see what happens. Although poly does not stretch as much as gut, nor as much as syngut. I was thinking that with syngut mains and gut crosses, I would get a better feel while still retaining the power of the gut. Apparently, very few people have tried hybriding gut and syngut.

Torres
03-11-2011, 08:10 AM
In my experience the feel comes from the crosses because that is where the power comes from.

No, its the mains that will contribute to most of the feel and power (or non-power) on groundstrokes. Don't forget that its the mains that brush up and bite into the ball - as your racquet will be largely horizintal at the point of contact. It will be the mains that deform the most and take most of the impact on groundstrokes.

As said previously, whatever string you put in the mains, it will be that string's characteristics that you'll feel the most.

Keifers
03-11-2011, 08:12 AM
Gut in the mains.

The advantages are:

Primarily, to reduce cost.

Secondarily, to tame power (for some players).

High-quality gut is more durable than any synthetic gut out there (given same gauge), so I would not put it in the cross with synthetic gut mains.
Agree -- all of the above.

OP, do NOT put the syn in the mains. I accidentally tried this when my stringer mistook a syn for a poly -- there was NOTHING to recommend in that configuration. It was a waste of a half set of gut (actually a full set because he did two racquets the same way at the same time!).

DE19702
03-11-2011, 11:53 AM
No, its the mains that will contribute to most of the feel and power (or non-power) on groundstrokes. Don't forget that its the mains that brush up and bite into the ball - as your racquet will be largely horizintal at the point of contact. It will be the mains that deform the most and take most of the impact on groundstrokes.

As said previously, whatever string you put in the mains, it will be that string's characteristics that you'll feel the most.

I hate to disagree with you but power comes from the trampoline effect from the crosses. The mains spread apart (deform sideways) and snap back imparting rotation or spin on the ball. The crosses get pushed backwards then forwards imparting forward momemtum on the ball. Gut, being more elastic, therefore imparts more of a trampoline effect than a less elastic string when used in the crosses. Anyone who uses gut will tell you it is a powerful string. No one feels spin but they certainly do power.

Torres
03-11-2011, 03:41 PM
I hate to disagree with you but power comes from the trampoline effect from the crosses.

LOL. You're free to disagree...but on a freshly strung racquet, you are very much mistaken (as well as incorrectly overanalyzing).

Power is predominately determined by the mains, as its the mains that dominate the effect of the stringbed. Have a powerful string in the mains, and you will have a powerful stringbed. Have a low powered string in the mains and you will have a low powered stringbed.

You only have to string a hybrid with poly mains / gut crosses, and then gut mains / poly crosses, to realise straight away that the stringbed with the gut mains is easily the more powerful stringbed.

You have to remember than there's forward motion of the racquet as well and its the gut mains deforming that provides most power because gut in the crosses tends to held in place by the poly mains.

It's the same with synthetic gut, but you probably notice its less because it doesn't hold the gut in place as well as poly due it being a softer string, so the characteristics of the gut come to the fore much more. In that setup the only way that synth gut mains and gut crosses would produce a more powerful stringbed compared to gut mains / synth crosses is if you have left the strings in the racquet for so long eg. months/years, that the synth has lost a ton of tension and the characteristics of the gut crosses come much more to the fore (as gut loses tension at a much slower than synth gut).

Keifers
03-11-2011, 08:28 PM
In my experience the feel comes from the crosses because that is where the power comes from. A poly cross with gut mains are not going to feel like a gut cross with poly mains -- there is going to be less feel. I might try gut crosses with B5E mains just to see what happens. Although poly does not stretch as much as gut, nor as much as syngut. I was thinking that with syngut mains and gut crosses, I would get a better feel while still retaining the power of the gut. Apparently, very few people have tried hybriding gut and syngut.

I hate to disagree with you but power comes from the trampoline effect from the crosses. The mains spread apart (deform sideways) and snap back imparting rotation or spin on the ball. The crosses get pushed backwards then forwards imparting forward momemtum on the ball. Gut, being more elastic, therefore imparts more of a trampoline effect than a less elastic string when used in the crosses. Anyone who uses gut will tell you it is a powerful string. No one feels spin but they certainly do power.
I have not thought deeply nor read anything about the different roles played by the mains and the crosses as described by DE19702. Nor about the concept that "the feel comes from the crosses because that is where the power comes from."

But I do have direct experience of hybriding gut and syn gut -- both ways -- and I can say without equivocation that gut in the mains feels far more powerful and gut-like than gut in the crosses. The two are not even in the same ballpark.



Back to DE's original post...

Anyone cross gut with a syngut? What would be the benefits of doing this and would you put the gut in the mains or crosses? I've tried putting gut in the mains with B5E in the crosses and it wasn't as good as either by themselves.
I think the bolded sentence is both true and very instructive. It's never made much sense to me to hybrid gut mains with a poly cross (other than (1) to tame the power and control of the gut, and (2) to reduce the life span of the string job compared with an all-gut bed).

Gut's power and control come from its ability to pocket deeply and then rebound. Poly's power and control come from not pocketing much at all and (hence) a very short rebound. Put the two together and it's NO WONDER the OP finds that the hybrid isn't as good as either alone !!

JRstriker12
03-11-2011, 08:29 PM
This is what TW says about mains vs. crosses in hybrids: http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/orderhybrid.html

Selecting the Main String
When choosing a hybrid, note that the main string will dominate the overall feel and playability of the two strings. For example, if you are seeking durability, then the most durable of the two strings selected should be chosen as the main string. If your overall goal is playability, then the string with the most desirable playing characteristics should be chosen as the main string.

Steve Huff
03-11-2011, 09:48 PM
I've used gut mains with about everything in the crosses, from gut, synthetic gut, poly. The racket will play most like gut if you put gut in the mains. I always drop the tension of the syn. in the crosses to make sure it lets the gut stretch and rebound enough to retain the gut feel. I've also put poly in the crosses at only 4# lower than the mains (61/57) and the tightness of the poly crosses limited the feel and power of the gut. I'd drop the tension next time to 60/51. This was even with an 18g poly (Solinco Tour Revolution). The control was great, but it really jarred my arm, and shrunk the sweetspot on the racket. I got unbelievable movement on my shots though.