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JackB1
03-24-2011, 12:36 PM
Thought I would start a "club" for all us natural gut / poly hybrid users to compare notes.

I am playing with a Becker London with Head Natural gut mains and am testing copoly crosses now. So far I have tried:

1) PF Black Venom - very nice. soft and low powered
2) Volkl V-Pro - also soft and a little more pop

I think the ideal cross for nat gut mains is a round, smooth poly that will slide easily along the gut. Also the round shape will not wear out the gut too fast.

dadozen
03-24-2011, 12:49 PM
Count me in. Currently using VS Team/ Scorpion 1.22

Scorpion seems to be a very nice poly to be used as a cross for gut, but I'm still making some tests to improve the durability.

I already have VS Touch 16( both Black and Natural ) to try, along with Scorpion 1.28.

Also, I have VS Toch 15( agian, both Black and natural ) and Scorpion 1.33 sets to try. The one that gives me the best durabiltiy will be the chosen one. But if the difference between VS Touch 16/Scorpion 1.28 and VS Touch 15/Scorpion 1.33 isn't too big, I'll stick with VS Touch 16/Scorpion 1.28.

JackB1
03-24-2011, 08:15 PM
Count me in. Currently using VS Team/ Scorpion 1.22

Scorpion seems to be a very nice poly to be used as a cross for gut, but I'm still making some tests to improve the durability.

I already have VS Touch 16( both Black and Natural ) to try, along with Scorpion 1.28.

Also, I have VS Toch 15( agian, both Black and natural ) and Scorpion 1.33 sets to try. The one that gives me the best durabiltiy will be the chosen one. But if the difference between VS Touch 16/Scorpion 1.28 and VS Touch 15/Scorpion 1.33 isn't too big, I'll stick with VS Touch 16/Scorpion 1.28.

Welcome!

Yes, Scorpion is a good mix with gut because it gives it some crispness and is about medium powered I would guess.

rudester
03-24-2011, 08:43 PM
Maybe i can be a part time member as i am always experimenting with strings. However, currently i am really excited about the performance of Genesis Natural Gut Mains/Luxiilon Savage Lime in crosses. This combo tested side by side in identical racquet strung with full poly has just as much spin as the full poly, more available power and unreal touch and feel.
I agree that round poly in the crosses is best option. I am more and more convinced that textured strings are just marketing.

Tennis100
03-24-2011, 10:07 PM
Count me in. poor man's Federer setup. gaucho/tourna big hitter blue rough. actually amazing setup, worth a try

olliess
03-24-2011, 11:07 PM
I'm fond of the Babolat combo with VS Gut/Pro Hurricane Tour. Despite the shape of the PHT, the VS Gut mains lasted about 6 times longer than Xcel/PHT with very little visible notching until near the end (when the gut frayed and fell apart completely). Noticeably better feel and spin to boot.

Ash_Smith
03-25-2011, 01:34 AM
I've got RAB Gut mains and Genesis Spin-X crosses in one of my Prestige's at the moment - like it a lot, although the tension maintenence of the Spin-X leaves alot to be desired!!!

Cheers

Ash

Maui19
03-25-2011, 03:33 AM
I have tried a couple setups:

1. Klip Natural Gut 16 w/ WC Silverstring 17
2. Klip w/MSV Hepta-Twist 17
3. Pacific Classic Natural Gut 16 w/MSV Hepta-Twist 17

Number 3 is now my permanent setup. I liked the way the Klip played, but didn't like the way it frayed so much. The Pacific doesn't fray and lasts longer. All three setups played well, but the MSV does produce more spin. I was worried about durability with the shaped Hepta-Twist, but surprisingly it lasted longer than the Silverstring. I think this is due to the fact that it has less contact surface area with the cross strings due to its shape. I believe this is the reason the Hepta-Twist produces such good (low) friction scores in the TW testing.

There are a lot of great strings out there.

neesun
03-25-2011, 03:49 AM
Read my sig for my normal set up.

Trying poly/gut for a change, Alu Power @ 53 and Gut @ 56.

dadozen
03-25-2011, 05:11 AM
I have tried a couple setups:

1. Klip Natural Gut 16 w/ WC Silverstring 17
2. Klip w/MSV Hepta-Twist 17
3. Pacific Classic Natural Gut 16 w/MSV Hepta-Twist 17

Number 3 is now my permanent setup. I liked the way the Klip played, but didn't like the way it frayed so much. The Pacific doesn't fray and lasts longer. All three setups played well, but the MSV does produce more spin. I was worried about durability with the shaped Hepta-Twist, but surprisingly it lasted longer than the Silverstring. I think this is due to the fact that it has less contact surface area with the cross strings due to its shape. I believe this is the reason the Hepta-Twist produces such good (low) friction scores in the TW testing.

There are a lot of great strings out there.

Maui, I wish I could get some Pacific gut to try, but the webstore I usually buy from doesn't sell it.

You could try Pacific Gut/WC SS, to check if your theory about MSV's shaped profile really gives a better durability or not. Maybe you're right, and all of us thinking that round polys are better are actually wrong.

I also found out that gut/poly setups are very tension sensitive.

The racquets strung at 53/50 and 52/49 last a lot longer than the ones strung at 55/52 and 56/53. I had three racquets strung at the last two tension setups and they didn't last longer than 1h30 each. That was quite frustrating.

Lambsscroll
03-25-2011, 05:24 AM
Count me in. I like my Titan NG 16g / Eagnas Poly Nova 17g setup. Once I run out of the reel of poly nova I'll be testing polys at TW. I rather give money to TW than Eagnas.

Lambsscroll
03-25-2011, 05:39 AM
I have tried a couple setups:

1. Klip Natural Gut 16 w/ WC Silverstring 17
2. Klip w/MSV Hepta-Twist 17
3. Pacific Classic Natural Gut 16 w/MSV Hepta-Twist 17

Number 3 is now my permanent setup. I liked the way the Klip played, but didn't like the way it frayed so much. The Pacific doesn't fray and lasts longer. All three setups played well, but the MSV does produce more spin. I was worried about durability with the shaped Hepta-Twist, but surprisingly it lasted longer than the Silverstring. I think this is due to the fact that it has less contact surface area with the cross strings due to its shape. I believe this is the reason the Hepta-Twist produces such good (low) friction scores in the TW testing.

There are a lot of great strings out there.

I'm definitely going to try your number 3. I have always wanted to try Pacific Classic and the Hepta-Twist sounds good not only for added durability throughout the string-bed but also for some added spin.

JackB1
03-25-2011, 06:01 AM
I was worried about durability with the shaped Hepta-Twist, but surprisingly it lasted longer than the Silverstring. I think this is due to the fact that it has less contact surface area with the cross strings due to its shape. I believe this is the reason the Hepta-Twist produces such good (low) friction scores in the TW testing.


I just looked at the pic of Hepta Twist and I think u are right. The edges are diagonal and they dont sit perpendicular to the gut mains so they may not "dig in" so much. My only concern is that all 3 reviews I read mentioned that this string loses tension quickly after about 4 hours of play. Did u find this?


Does anyone have the link for TW's friction testing?

dadozen
03-25-2011, 06:08 AM
There you go Jack:)

http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/COFreporter.php

I think I'll place an order for MSV Hepta Twist 1.30 as well. Too bad I have one reel of Scorpion 1.22 and another of Scorpion 1.28....

JackB1
03-25-2011, 06:18 AM
There you go Jack:)

http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/COFreporter.php

I think I'll place an order for MSV Hepta Twist 1.30 as well. Too bad I have one reel of Scorpion 1.22 and another of Scorpion 1.28....

Thanks bud! Don't get rid of the Scorpion until u try it! Scorpion is a great string too!

JackB1
03-25-2011, 06:20 AM
Can anyone explain the diff's in all the Pacific guts?
There's Prime, Tough, & Classic.

Maui19
03-25-2011, 06:29 AM
I just looked at the pic of Hepta Twist and I think u are right. The edges are diagonal and they dont sit perpendicular to the gut mains so they may not "dig in" so much. My only concern is that all 3 reviews I read mentioned that this string loses tension quickly after about 4 hours of play. Did u find this?


Does anyone have the link for TW's friction testing?

Hepta loses tension quickly? I thought it held tension well! To be honest, I've researched so many strings that I can't keep them straight any more. :?

I haven't noticed it losing tension particularly fast. The strings go a little flat before breaking, but that's after 20+ hours of play.

dadozen
03-25-2011, 06:32 AM
Thanks bud! Don't get rid of the Scorpion until u try it! Scorpion is a great string too!

Relax Jack, Scorpion is my go to string and I just bought the 1.28 reel because it seems to give a better durability over the 1.22 gauge.;)

But I really want to try MSV Hepta Twist as well:D

JackB1
03-25-2011, 06:48 AM
Relax Jack, Scorpion is my go to string and I just bought the 1.28 reel because it seems to give a better durability over the 1.22 gauge.;)

But I really want to try MSV Hepta Twist as well:D

then just grab a pack or 2 to try out?

It also comes in black and red :)

JT_2eighty
03-25-2011, 07:01 AM
Can anyone explain the diff's in all the Pacific guts?
There's Prime, Tough, & Classic.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=4187375&postcount=4

JackB1
03-25-2011, 07:12 AM
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=4187375&postcount=4

Thanks! Maybe I'll try some Pacific when my current supply of Head gut runs out. I think I am the only one on these boards using Head Natural Gut? I found a store that was clearing them out and I got them for $25 a set, so I bought about 10 sets :) It's a nice gut and not too powerful with a bit of a crisp feel. Seems pretty durable so far too. I have over 15 hours in one set and it only shows a little bit of fraying.

dadozen
03-25-2011, 07:27 AM
then just grab a pack or 2 to try out?

It also comes in black and red :)

Jack, I'll do that, but the problem is if I like Hepta Twist better than Scorpion:D

tennis_nut
03-25-2011, 11:19 AM
I'd like to be part of the club! VS Team mains with Hepta Twist 17 crosses in an EXO3 Tour (16 X 18)= ridiculous amounts of spin. I don't feel like the Hepta Twist loses tension fast though. I am breaking the mains at around 12-15 hours before I notice any drop in performance from tension loss. I have never been able to hit the kind of angles I've been hitting with any other string setup.

tennis_nut
03-25-2011, 11:29 AM
Oh, I forgot to mention that I get 12-15 hours playing but that is playing about half doubles and half singles. This setup only lasts me about 6-8 sets of singles. I'm thinking of trying the Pacific Tough gut like some have mentioned but am hesitant because VS Team feels oh so good.

neesun
03-25-2011, 08:46 PM
Tried the poly/gut (alu power @53 & VS team @56) today. Played just as well as my normal set up (VS team @55 & Alu Power @52).

Lets face it, once you try Natty Gut, you won't want to try anything else.

alidisperanza
03-26-2011, 08:53 AM
+1 here

Spider Silk/Silverstring.

I'm looking to give Klip Legend a shot for the mains and black5edge for the crosses-- what do you guys think

Sardines
03-26-2011, 03:26 PM
I use K90 with RPM 17 mains (35-43lbs) with either VS Team 17 (42-48lbs), Klip Legend 17 (40-45lbs), Performaxx Whisper Touch 17L (40-45lbs) crosses.
I like the RPM at lower tension but most of the natural gut are too powerful @ 40lbs or less. The Klip Legend is lower power (stiffer) and handles lower tension stringing better. The VS and WT are quite powerful and with my skills (or lack thereof), I find it harder balance power and control. That said, on a heavier day, that power comes in handy.
I'd put the Performaxx whisper touch in the same power zone as the VS Team. Since I'm using the 17L (1.2mm) WT, it's thinner than the VS Team 17 so it is that bit more powerful and has a bit more bite. Feels great too.

Bahama Scott
03-26-2011, 03:44 PM
Just noticed this thread after I started another just above.
"Recently got 2 Babolat 112 Aero's with Babolat VS Natural gut 16 mains and RPM Blast 17 in cross in one and Volkl V-fuse in second. Really love the VS/RPM Blast set up best but....after about 20 hours of heavy spin hitting balls are starting sail long and having a lot of trouble controlling power.

Kick was great but fading a little. Thinking of switching to the VS gut 16 in crosses at 58 and RPM Blast 17 in Mains at 60.

Goal is to increase spin and control and lower the power while maintaining the comfort and also get some duration out of it....hoepfully a couple of months (I play 4 times per week at level 3 but pretty heavy spin hitter). My current set up is holding up real well after about 4 weeks (although the V-fuse is starting to show some pretty serious wear.

Looking for feedback on thoughts regarding spin, control, power and durability." and also what tensions would you suggest. (Just a side note to the setup Im using, I NEVER have to adjust my strings...they always return...may be function of low coefficient of friction.)

Lambsscroll
03-26-2011, 04:09 PM
Just noticed this thread after I started another just above.
"Recently got 2 Babolat 112 Aero's with Babolat VS Natural gut 16 mains and RPM Blast 17 in cross in one and Volkl V-fuse in second. Really love the VS/RPM Blast set up best but....after about 20 hours of heavy spin hitting balls are starting sail long and having a lot of trouble controlling power.



If thats a true 20 hours of awesome playability thats great. For me thats like a month and a half of exceptional playability.

stringertom
03-26-2011, 04:20 PM
I too will join the club with these comments:
1. I first used a gutM/polyX two years ago out of curiousity thanks to a Swiss dude with 16 majors. I tried the Fed setup side by side with the pre-packaged VS/PHT hybrid. Hands down winner was the Fed.
2. I lucked into discovering Signum Pro Tornado last year and now have almost all my poly players using it, so much so that I hate cutting off of the stock reel for my own racquets. Ergo, my promise to string up my next stick with the Hyperion as X's and let you know if a smooth poly X works out better than the heptagonal textured Tornado. Should have feedback in less than two weeks. I will say I believe the texture helps the gut retain tension a little better as proven in the disappointing tests I've had with RPM and PHT, both of which are marshmellow soft after 10 hours play. ALU Rough and especially Tornado lock in on the tension after the first day and play well into 20-30 hour range. After that, if it ain't broke it's gonna break your arm or your game as it is time to cut it out.
3. I love Bow Brand gut. So clean and clear vs. all the rest. It now only comes in 20' lengths (sold 2 to a pack in case you go all-gut). US price is $34 so that is a plus too.
Will string up the Hyperion and report back soon.

Lambsscroll
03-26-2011, 05:19 PM
I too will join the club with these comments:
1. I first used a gutM/polyX two years ago out of curiousity thanks to a Swiss dude with 16 majors. I tried the Fed setup side by side with the pre-packaged VS/PHT hybrid. Hands down winner was the Fed.
2. I lucked into discovering Signum Pro Tornado last year and now have almost all my poly players using it, so much so that I hate cutting off of the stock reel for my own racquets. Ergo, my promise to string up my next stick with the Hyperion as X's and let you know if a smooth poly X works out better than the heptagonal textured Tornado. Should have feedback in less than two weeks. I will say I believe the texture helps the gut retain tension a little better as proven in the disappointing tests I've had with RPM and PHT, both of which are marshmellow soft after 10 hours play. ALU Rough and especially Tornado lock in on the tension after the first day and play well into 20-30 hour range. After that, if it ain't broke it's gonna break your arm or your game as it is time to cut it out.
3. I love Bow Brand gut. So clean and clear vs. all the rest. It now only comes in 20' lengths (sold 2 to a pack in case you go all-gut). US price is $34 so that is a plus too.
Will string up the Hyperion and report back soon.

Dude, you got me wanting to try ALU rough as a cross now. ty

Lambsscroll
03-26-2011, 05:22 PM
Whats kinda funny to me is cheap gut mains/cheap poly cross works well too. I mean really well. The better gut/poly strings are just an added bonus.

JackB1
03-28-2011, 01:57 PM
Ergo, my promise to string up my next stick with the Hyperion as X's and let you know if a smooth poly X works out better than the heptagonal textured Tornado. Should have feedback in less than two weeks.

I am also curious about nat guy w/ Hyperion crosses. I am a little reluctant to try Hyperion as a cross with gut since it's such a powerful poly, but I gues I can up the tension to 58/56 from my usual 58/54?

stringertom
03-28-2011, 03:11 PM
I am also curious about nat guy w/ Hyperion crosses. I am a little reluctant to try Hyperion as a cross with gut since it's such a powerful poly, but I gues I can up the tension to 58/56 from my usual 58/54?

Yeah, I used to have 3-4 # difference with ALU Rough and PHT but adjusted a bit with Tornado. Will do same w/Hyperion after it stops raining here in Central Fla. (tomorrow?)

stringertom
04-09-2011, 07:00 PM
I finally got a chance to string up a couple of frames for playtesting Signum Pro's two Blackline polys as part of a nattie gut/poly hybrid.

First, the background facts: I play Head YTPP, six months of year in FL winters @ 56/54#. When warmer weather comes, I boost tension by one pound each way per 10 degrees above 70F. I had recently strung a frame (3/23) @ 57/55 with Bow Champ. 16 gut/Tornado 17. My Beers ERT 1000 tensometer reading was 64 units with a dynamic tension of 39. Overnight, before play, the stringbed had settled to 61 units with DT of 38.

I strung a second frame subbing Hyperion 17 for the Tornado 17. I also boosted tension to 59/57, due to warmer weather and a reasonable expectation the smooth poly would not "grab" the gut a la Tornado and retain tension as well.

I also strung a third frame with another smooth poly I'm considering stocking: Tecnifibre X-Code 17. My experience with the X-Code led me to believe a little extra tension was in order so it was done @ 60/58.

The next day (4/4), my readings confirmed my hunches. In fact, over the next 3 days (approx. 6 hrs. play per frame) the stringbeds settled in to within 5% of each other. Even the older, lower-tensioned gut/Tornado had high 50's unit readings and mid-30's DT #s. The texture and the extra extrusion process makes the Tornado stabilize better and longer.

All of the above is data-oriented. Here's the non-scientific scoop: I love the Tornado's feel vs. either of the smooth polys. The extra spin on serves is visually noticeable. The ability to drop a hard-hit service return near the baseline is very common and the sweetspot responsiveness on volley exchanges at net in doubles is astounding. I enjoy all three set-ups but the Tornado is #1 and the Hyperion comes in as 2A with the X-Code a close 2B. Both the "smoothies" are a little more "mellow" on off-center hits and pocket well on touch shots.

The oddest unscientific reaction I have about the experiment is the "ping" test. Despite a slightly lower current reading on my tensometer, the Tornado bed has a slightly higher pitch when "pinged". I did a double-take on my last readings because of this. While they are within that 5% range of each other, the Tornado bed is reading the lowest (as it should from more play & more time in and lower setting), it actually sounds tighter. Odd, eh?

I will continue reporting if any express interest in the next weeks. This thread has "deadened" since I offered feedback, so if you're interested, please let me know.

hoodjem
04-10-2011, 10:02 AM
I've got B5E/Perfomaxx 17g nat gut in two of my racquets right now. I have not had a chance to hit with it yet, because of the weather. Maybe today?

Another nice one was Kirschbaum Pro Line II 1.15 and Klip Legend 18g: crisp but gobs of feel, with very good power and lots of spin.




As long as the poly does not "eat up" the gut, these poly/gut hybrids are winners.

JackB1
04-10-2011, 10:10 AM
I finally got a chance to string up a couple of frames for playtesting Signum Pro's two Blackline polys as part of a nattie gut/poly hybrid.

First, the background facts: I play Head YTPP, six months of year in FL winters @ 56/54#. When warmer weather comes, I boost tension by one pound each way per 10 degrees above 70F. I had recently strung a frame (3/23) @ 57/55 with Bow Champ. 16 gut/Tornado 17. My Beers ERT 1000 tensometer reading was 64 units with a dynamic tension of 39. Overnight, before play, the stringbed had settled to 61 units with DT of 38.

I strung a second frame subbing Hyperion 17 for the Tornado 17. I also boosted tension to 59/57, due to warmer weather and a reasonable expectation the smooth poly would not "grab" the gut a la Tornado and retain tension as well.

I also strung a third frame with another smooth poly I'm considering stocking: Tecnifibre X-Code 17. My experience with the X-Code led me to believe a little extra tension was in order so it was done @ 60/58.

The next day (4/4), my readings confirmed my hunches. In fact, over the next 3 days (approx. 6 hrs. play per frame) the stringbeds settled in to within 5% of each other. Even the older, lower-tensioned gut/Tornado had high 50's unit readings and mid-30's DT #s. The texture and the extra extrusion process makes the Tornado stabilize better and longer.

All of the above is data-oriented. Here's the non-scientific scoop: I love the Tornado's feel vs. either of the smooth polys. The extra spin on serves is visually noticeable. The ability to drop a hard-hit service return near the baseline is very common and the sweetspot responsiveness on volley exchanges at net in doubles is astounding. I enjoy all three set-ups but the Tornado is #1 and the Hyperion comes in as 2A with the X-Code a close 2B. Both the "smoothies" are a little more "mellow" on off-center hits and pocket well on touch shots.

The oddest unscientific reaction I have about the experiment is the "ping" test. Despite a slightly lower current reading on my tensometer, the Tornado bed has a slightly higher pitch when "pinged". I did a double-take on my last readings because of this. While they are within that 5% range of each other, the Tornado bed is reading the lowest (as it should from more play & more time in and lower setting), it actually sounds tighter. Odd, eh?

I will continue reporting if any express interest in the next weeks. This thread has "deadened" since I offered feedback, so if you're interested, please let me know.

Nice write up! Let me know how the Tornado lasts with the gut. Since it's an "edged" poly, you would think it would eat into the gut faster than the Hyperion or XCode. The XCode by the way, it supposed to be a poy/multi in one string, so it's not your typical choice for a cross with gut, but might work just fine. It's probably a little livelier and softer than the other two.

TimothyO
04-10-2011, 11:02 AM
hey Jack!

Great idea for a thread!

My standard has been VS mains and Hurricane Feel crosses. But since I love tinkering I'm experimenting with some alternatives.

TONIC / HEPTA 18 @ 49 / 45
Yesterday and today I tried Tonic + Ball Feel mains and Hepta Twist 17 crosses. Played three hours yesterday and two hours today. Comfort was perfect (a giant pillow cushion), spin just dandy, control ok. Way too overpowered! Even with topspin I had trouble keeping shots in and found myself holding back.

TONIC / RPM 17 @ 51 / 47
The racquet is back at the stringers this afternoon to replace the tonic/hepta with tonic/RPM at a slightly higher tension. Hopefully the stiffer RPM will provide a better foundation for the Tonic and reduce the string bed's power significantly. I recently tried VS Black with RPM and found the Black too stiff and too sticky. I believe the Tonic Ball Feel will play very differently with RPM. Will know Monday night! :)

utmiken
04-10-2011, 12:17 PM
Normally full bed RPM 17 that gets restrung every 4 hours of play.

But when the TE kicks in I go a few weeks with RPM 17 mains and VS 16 crosses (+4lbs). This setup lasts longer in terms of tension maintenance than the full poly.

JackB1
04-10-2011, 12:33 PM
Timo, I can't believe u string your gut mains so low! No wonder it was too powerful. I do 58/54 with my London

TimothyO
04-10-2011, 12:53 PM
Timo, I can't believe u string your gut mains so low! No wonder it was too powerful. I do 58/54 with my London

The PSLGT has a very dense string pattern (18 mains) with 95 sq. in. I tried mid 50s at one point and it was just too stiff for me coming from other racquets with open patterns. Thus I dropped it down. The frame is also very soft and very low powered which mitigates any power derived from the low tension.

Low 50s/high 40s worked fine with the stiffer VS/Hurricane Feel Hybrid but it was way too low for the very soft Tonic/Hepta Twist. Even so, I've bumped it back to 51 for the tonic mains. Can't wait to try it on Monday!

JackB1
04-10-2011, 01:09 PM
The PSLGT has a very dense string pattern (18 mains) with 95 sq. in. I tried mid 50s at one point and it was just too stiff for me coming from other racquets with open patterns. Thus I dropped it down. The frame is also very soft and very low powered which mitigates any power derived from the low tension.

Low 50s/high 40s worked fine with the stiffer VS/Hurricane Feel Hybrid but it was way too low for the very soft Tonic/Hepta Twist. Even so, I've bumped it back to 51 for the tonic mains. Can't wait to try it on Monday!

OK...that makes more sense. You think the power came from the Hepta? I have a package of Hepta that I havent tried yet.

p.s. I am trying to find a game today...any interest in playing around 6 pm? I could head up your way?

TimothyO
04-10-2011, 01:32 PM
Hepta17 is down around 214 so 18 must be even softer. Haven't used omething tht soft in the crosses since xcel!

can't hit this evening. wife expects dinner after her ALTA match! :)

stringertom
04-10-2011, 01:38 PM
Nice write up! Let me know how the Tornado lasts with the gut. Since it's an "edged" poly, you would think it would eat into the gut faster than the Hyperion or XCode. The XCode by the way, it supposed to be a poy/multi in one string, so it's not your typical choice for a cross with gut, but might work just fine. It's probably a little livelier and softer than the other two.

I don't think durability due to Tornado's shape & texture will be an issue. I've got almost 10 hours on that bed with no "hairing up" yet. If I can get to 15 hours without a sweetspot horsetail, that's gravy! I don't want 20+ hours durability coz I get crazy about cutting gut out.

Re: X-Code playing properties. I did a full-bed X-Code 17 and may return to it as my "rainsuit". It plays very comfortably without an outright sacrifice of control. It does move around so I might try the 16 to solve that issue. As the cross with nattie, as well as a cross for traditional polys, it's great for the feel but it seems to leak tension more than the Hyperion.

JackB1
04-10-2011, 02:42 PM
I don't think durability due to Tornado's shape & texture will be an issue. I've got almost 10 hours on that bed with no "hairing up" yet. If I can get to 15 hours without a sweetspot horsetail, that's gravy! I don't want 20+ hours durability coz I get crazy about cutting gut out.

Re: X-Code playing properties. I did a full-bed X-Code 17 and may return to it as my "rainsuit". It plays very comfortably without an outright sacrifice of control. It does move around so I might try the 16 to solve that issue. As the cross with nattie, as well as a cross for traditional polys, it's great for the feel but it seems to leak tension more than the Hyperion.

What do u mean by "rainsuit"?

stringertom
04-10-2011, 04:10 PM
What do u mean by "rainsuit"?

Safe way to play in the drizzles here in FL. Full X-Code is about as close a feel as any alternative to gut/poly. So the next time the liquid sunshine invades my court space, I'll slide my first stick in the bag and pull out the X-Code.

TimothyO
04-10-2011, 04:13 PM
back in college raincoat had a different connotation.

:)

JackB1
04-10-2011, 08:11 PM
Safe way to play in the drizzles here in FL. Full X-Code is about as close a feel as any alternative to gut/poly. So the next time the liquid sunshine invades my court space, I'll slide my first stick in the bag and pull out the X-Code.

Ahh..gotcha. Here in Atlanta, I have the same issues, especially in the summer.
I have been using Gamma Proff/Copoly hybrid as my wet weather setup, but maybe I'll try full X-Code if you say it does a good job mimicking nat gut/coply.
You think it's closer to gut/copoly than multi/copoly?

stringertom
04-11-2011, 09:02 AM
Ahh..gotcha. Here in Atlanta, I have the same issues, especially in the summer.
I have been using Gamma Proff/Copoly hybrid as my wet weather setup, but maybe I'll try full X-Code if you say it does a good job mimicking nat gut/coply.
You think it's closer to gut/copoly than multi/copoly?

As a spare for the rain, I'm looking for something that holds tension better than multis generally do. I have one backup now with Tornado Mains/Addiction X's that is OK for singles but not forgiving enough for doubles-style quick reaction non-sweetspot exchanges. That stick was done several months ago and the DT read is only 12% off original. If I reversed the setup, I know from previous similar experiences, that number would be closer to 20% after only a month. The X-Code was closer to the polyM/multiX in read but a lot more forgiving when pressed for time at net. It does move a bit due to its softer construction.

franks
04-11-2011, 06:08 PM
I have been using the following conbinations:
Natural Gut with Topspin Cyber Blue 125

Natural Gut with Weisscannon Scorpion 122
For both setups the tension maintenance is very good - excellent

stringertom
04-12-2011, 09:35 AM
Got another 4 or so hours court time in with the three different set-ups:
1. Call me biased, but the Tornado still delivers for me. It has really stabilized at 57/36 readings on the Beers tensometer. Despite being strung 10 days earlier @ 3-4 #s less and played with more, it has the same read as the X-Code set-up. The Hyperion reads 6% higher now but was strung 2-3 #s higher. I will get more hitting, non-competitive court time tomorrow and use the Hyperion mostly to see if it holds tighter.

Boricua
04-28-2011, 01:40 PM
Safe way to play in the drizzles here in FL. Full X-Code is about as close a feel as any alternative to gut/poly. So the next time the liquid sunshine invades my court space, I'll slide my first stick in the bag and pull out the X-Code.

What tension did you use?

drummerdan
04-28-2011, 09:11 PM
Tennis Warehouse has a section in their learning center called "String Friction Rankings". Many of the rankings are hybrids. I decided to try out the number 1 COF (coefficient of friction - ie: slippery strings) rated hybrid: VS Tonic+ 16 (mains) and MSV Hepta Twist 17 (crosses). I strung it up at 60# gut and 57# poly and took it out for a test drive this evening.

All I can saw is WOW! This setup was everything you want - spinny, comfortable, controllable and I could really crank up the serve when necessary. No soreness in my arm afterward and it was easy to string (the crosses were a bit feisty but not too bad). This is a combo worth serious consideration.

Try it out for yourself!!

McLovin
04-29-2011, 03:37 AM
I am a huge proponent of the gut mains/poly crosses setup. My initial setup was Pacific Classic 17g / Topspin Concept Pure 1.24 crosses in a Fischer M-Comp.

When I switched to the C10 Pro I tried a few different poly crosses, including Red Code, Poly Force, Solinco Outlast and Pro Poly Plasma. I initially settled on the Poly Force, but after a few more outings, decided I liked the feel of Concept Pure the best, so I went back to my original setup, and there I've been for 9 months.

56lbs all the way around. Setup lasts ~ 3 weeks, or 8 - 10 matches. I don't believe I have broken a string yet.

In addition, I've turned many people I string for on to this setup. All different levels of play, and all different types of frames. And the fact that Topspin reels are so inexpensive (costing ~ $2 a string job) helps offset the cost of the gut.

TimothyO
04-29-2011, 03:47 AM
DrummerDan,

If you enjoyed the VS / Twist hybrid try VS / CoFocus. I spoke with the folks at Guts and Glory and they explained that CoFocus is the exact same material simply not twisted. You get even better string movement.

Part of the Secret to Twist/CoFocus smooth surface is the polished surface. Some polys are slippery due to a coating but these wear away quickly. These strings are slippery because they some of the most highly polished strings available. Thus their surface stays slippery longer. Another highly polished string is Silverstring but it is more easily deformed (see below).

The Twist/CoFocus material resists deformation far more than any poly I've tried. Other polys have a lot of "memory" when deformed and their surface gets broken and rough when bent. The CoFocus material stays smooth and strong even when subjected to harsh bending keeping your string bed smooth and lower friction.

I liked it so much my new standard is Black VS mains and CoFocus 17 crosses. My wife also usesthishybrid in her PB10 Mid and loves it!

Boricua
04-29-2011, 06:14 AM
DrummerDan,

If you enjoyed the VS / Twist hybrid try VS / CoFocus. I spoke with the folks at Guts and Glory and they explained that CoFocus is the exact same material simply not twisted. You get even better string movement.

Part of the Secret to Twist/CoFocus smooth surface is the polished surface. Some polys are slippery due to a coating but these wear away quickly. These strings are slippery because they some of the most highly polished strings available. Thus their surface stays slippery longer. Another highly polished string is Silverstring but it is more easily deformed (see below).

The Twist/CoFocus material resists deformation far more than any poly I've tried. Other polys have a lot of "memory" when deformed and their surface gets broken and rough when bent. The CoFocus material stays smooth and strong even when subjected to harsh bending keeping your string bed smooth and lower friction.

I liked it so much my new standard is Black VS mains and CoFocus 17 crosses. My wife also usesthishybrid in her PB10 Mid and loves it!

1-Would you recommend the Black VS mains and CoFocus 17 setup for a topspin player?

2-Did the Black VS feel as good as the regular VS?

TimothyO
04-29-2011, 08:42 AM
1-Would you recommend the Black VS mains and CoFocus 17 setup for a topspin player?

2-Did the Black VS feel as good as the regular VS?

1- Absolutely! I love hitting with topspin and this is very spin friendly. Night before last I hit with my wife using this setup. I could tell I was generating more spin than with previous setups for two reasons. First, on numerous occasions shots she was convinced were heading out dropped in at the last moment. The balls were arcing very hard. Second, I've not been very good at generating side spin but Wednesday evening she was having more trouble lining up her shots. Several times my shots broke in unexpected directions post-bounce. Two actually slammed into her the arc and post-bounce break were so significant.

Is it as spinny as some full polys? I guess so. I've tried some full poly setups and didn't see that all the fuss is about. Yeah, you can hit hard from the baseline with full poly, but forget all-court performance compared to gut mains. And for me spin generation was as good or better with gut/poly compared to full poly so I can hit just as hard with this gut/poly hybrid.

2. I tried VS Black previously (with RPM mains) and I found it stiffer than VS Classic which was disappointing to me. But VS Classic is going out-of-production so I decided to give it another try. It has less of that ball-pocketing feel than VS Classic and I miss that. On the other hand, it does feel crisper (the upside of greater stiffness?), so it's certainly a trade off. I'll miss VS Classic's unique feel but will be able to play with VS Black. Besides, the VS Black looks killer with CoFocus! My PSLGT strings are black/red and the PB10 Mid is black/yellow. :)

Boricua
04-29-2011, 08:46 AM
1- Absolutely! I love hitting with topspin and this is very spin friendly. Night before last I hit with my wife using this setup. I could tell I was generating more spin than with previous setups for two reasons. First, on numerous occasions shots she was convinced were heading out dropped in at the last moment. The balls were arcing very hard. Second, I've not been very good at generating side spin but Wednesday evening she was having more trouble lining up her shots. Several times my shots broke in unexpected directions post-bounce. Two actually slammed into her the arc and post-bounce break were so significant.

2. I tried VS Black previously (with RPM mains) and I found it stiffer than VS Classic which was disappointing to me. But VS Classic is going out-of-production so I decided to give it another try. It has less of that ball-pocketing feel than VS Classic and I miss that. On the other hand, it does feel crisper (the upside of greater stiffness?), so it's certainly a trade off. I'll miss VS Classic's unique feel but will be able to play with VS Black. Besides, the VS Black looks killer with CoFocus! My PSLGT strings are black/red and the PB10 Mid is black/yellow. :)

Have you considered trying the all black combo of VS Black and Weiss Cannon Black5Edge. Many,including myself, like B5E very much, it is much more comfortable than RPM.:)

TimothyO
04-29-2011, 10:14 AM
Have you considered trying the all black combo of VS Black and Weiss Cannon Black5Edge. Many,including myself, like B5E very much, it is much more comfortable than RPM.:)

I am considering it. John at G&G has also recommended it. He said the surface is also well polished.

I've tried a number of shaped polys in the crosses with gut mains: RPM, Hepta Twist, PHT, Hurricane Pro, etc. They're not bad and the initial "low friction" quality can be good. But I find that over time the string bed exhibits greater friction compared to smooth poly crosses. That's what led me to Co Focus. I enjoyed Hepta Twist in some ways and John recommended CoFocus since it's the same material "untwisted".

I'm in the process of buying another PSLGT so maybe I'll experiment with the B5E when first strung. A local chain is checking their inventory so I can get a certain unstrung balance and weight. Their Babloats have shrink wrap on the handle but no dampener and no display cardboard attached. At least I can get an accurate relative weight/balance (I'm looking for one at least 15 points head light unstrung and as light as possible).

JackB1
04-29-2011, 11:41 AM
I am considering it. John at G&G has also recommended it. He said the surface is also well polished.

I've tried a number of shaped polys in the crosses with gut mains: RPM, Hepta Twist, PHT, Hurricane Pro, etc. They're not bad and the initial "low friction" quality can be good. But I find that over time the string bed exhibits greater friction compared to smooth poly crosses. That's what led me to Co Focus. I enjoyed Hepta Twist in some ways and John recommended CoFocus since it's the same material "untwisted".



How did the gut/hepta twist hybrid go?

JackB1
04-29-2011, 11:45 AM
DrummerDan,

If you enjoyed the VS / Twist hybrid try VS / CoFocus. I spoke with the folks at Guts and Glory and they explained that CoFocus is the exact same material simply not twisted. You get even better string movement.



I am not so sure that Co-Focus is the same as Hepta? Co-Focus came out 2 years agp and Hepta just a few months ago. I wonder if someone at MSV could confirm?

drummerdan
04-30-2011, 08:37 AM
Tennis Warehouse has a section in their learning center called "String Friction Rankings". Many of the rankings are hybrids. I decided to try out the number 1 COF (coefficient of friction - ie: slippery strings) rated hybrid: VS Tonic+ 16 (mains) and MSV Hepta Twist 17 (crosses). I strung it up at 60# gut and 57# poly and took it out for a test drive this evening.

All I can saw is WOW! This setup was everything you want - spinny, comfortable, controllable and I could really crank up the serve when necessary. No soreness in my arm afterward and it was easy to string (the crosses were a bit feisty but not too bad). This is a combo worth serious consideration.

Try it out for yourself!!

Update: After 2 days and 1 1/2 hrs hitting, the tension loss is only -2.5%. Needless to say, this setup is a keeper!

muas1
04-30-2011, 02:48 PM
Looks like I'm joining the club as well, used natural gut for the first time today. String Pacific Classic / MSV Focus Hex in a PK Redondo 98 at 48/46lbs. All I can say is it produced the most penetrating and deep spin I've gotten out of any setup, more than some full poly beds. The only problem I had with it was my one handed backhand slice which kept wanting to either go long or into the net. Otherwise serves had a ton of power and the pocketing on volleys and drop-shots was awesome. This will likely be my go-to setup going forward for hard-courts. Now I just have to find something that works well on clay for the summer season.

Lambsscroll
04-30-2011, 04:33 PM
You wanna start making a list of names that are in the club?

endro
04-30-2011, 10:54 PM
After reading through this thread and some posts by JT_2eighty I strung Pacific ToughGut and Mantis Power Poly at 58/56 in my KBT. It is a rocking setup...the crosses make for a firm, stiff stringbed with crisp responsive power, tons of spin as expected from a 'gutpoly' hybrid...one reason I strung it so tight is because the full gut setup on my other KBlade irked me with the so called 'trampoline' effect, but the power was addicting. This setup blows it out of the water IMO, as the power is about the same but spin has increased signifigantly. Haven't used it in match play yet but I predict the stiff crosses will pay dividends on volleys and serves. Will report on durability as I go along, but so far it is looking really good.

JackB1
05-03-2011, 06:02 AM
Strung up some Hepta Twist last night. Wow, talk about coil memory!
I've never seen a string wrap and coil and twist like this one during stringing. Really a negative for self stringers.

Smasher08
06-08-2011, 06:43 PM
Jack

How dis the gut/hepta hybrid go? Are you still using it? How long did it last?

joeellis
06-08-2011, 06:55 PM
I'm sometimes in this club I suppose. I go back and forth between Gamma LW XP and VS in the crosses. I like each strung @ 56 lbs. and paired with BB Ace mains, strung @ 52 lbs.

JackB1
06-08-2011, 07:06 PM
Jack

How dis the gut/hepta hybrid go? Are you still using it? How long did it last?

It's Ok. Not worth the hassle though IMO. Lasted over a month.

Viking_Golfer
06-14-2011, 01:34 AM
I use VS Team mains at 30 kg and either AluRough or BlackSavage in the crosses at 28 kg - during the summer.

In the winter I use VS Team gut mains at 28 kg and AluRough or BlackSavage crosses at 26 kg

These are my preferred setups.
I get 8-12 hours from one hybrid before it breaks or I cut it out :)

Keifers
06-14-2011, 09:01 AM
In your gut mains/poly crosses hybrid, what are your reasons for string the mains higher, or the crosses higher?

What strings and tensions do you use?

Thanks.

Viking_Golfer
06-14-2011, 05:37 PM
In your gut mains/poly crosses hybrid, what are your reasons for string the mains higher, or the crosses higher?

What strings and tensions do you use?

Thanks.

You're asking me ?

I prefer to string the softer VS Team natgut 2 kg higher because it's a soft string with more power.
I prefer to string the stiffer Lux AluRough and BlackSavage 2 kg lower because it's a stiff string with less power.

I NEVER use poly in the mains, although it also feels very good if you have natgut in the crosses - but I get better tension stability and feel from having the natgut in the mains and the copoly in the crosses.

Only other setup I use is full bed of VS Team natgut @ 32 kg/65 lbs in my sole BLX Blade 98 18x20 racquet.

tomp
06-17-2011, 02:32 PM
Hi All,

I have half a set of VS Team 1.30 lying around so I thought I would give it a go in the mains with a poly cross.

What Poly would be recommended considering that my normal setup is BB Ace mains and Mantis comfort crosses in a K Blade Tour.

I was thinking something reasonably thin, might have some mosquite bite lying around somewhere?

Any ideas appreciated.

TaihtDuhShaat
06-17-2011, 07:00 PM
The Cyber Flash 1.20 is great for the first few hours as a cross.
Silverstring 1.20 has lots of feel, spin, fair control.
Scorpion 1.22 has fantastic control, ok spin, durable.
The mosquito bite is a good choice although I've never tried.

I Heart Thomas Muster
06-18-2011, 08:42 PM
I'm joining the club tonight. To go easy on my tender wrist I bought Babolat Tonic 15L for the mains and Kirschbaum Pro Line II 16L for the crosses. Tension is up in air right now though. I normally play RPM/Gosen JC at 54/58, dropped to 51/55 which I did okay with so I'm thinking 54/52 with the gut/poly set up.

Does that sound about right? Man I hope it doesn't break too quickly though.

Thanks in advance for any advice. If this works out I'll probably do Tonic/Black5edge from here on out. If it doesn't work out then I'll probably try RPM/Gamma TNT at 48/52 and see what that's like.

TaihtDuhShaat
06-18-2011, 09:56 PM
Gut mains @54 might send to many shots flying in a 16 main 100 sq. in. head size. Try the gut @58 in the mains, and the poly @54 in the crosses. It will still feel soft at this tension and give that great power/spin combo.

Keifers
06-18-2011, 11:15 PM
I'm joining the club tonight. To go easy on my tender wrist I bought Babolat Tonic 15L for the mains and Kirschbaum Pro Line II 16L for the crosses. Tension is up in air right now though. I normally play RPM/Gosen JC at 54/58, dropped to 51/55 which I did okay with so I'm thinking 54/52 with the gut/poly set up.

Does that sound about right? Man I hope it doesn't break too quickly though.

Thanks in advance for any advice. If this works out I'll probably do Tonic/Black5edge from here on out. If it doesn't work out then I'll probably try RPM/Gamma TNT at 48/52 and see what that's like.
I'm curious... How did you decide on RPM/Gosen JC with JC 4 lbs higher?

(I'm wondering because the RPM would normally lose tension much faster (and more) than the JC.)

Thanks.

I Heart Thomas Muster
06-19-2011, 09:10 AM
Gut mains @54 might send to many shots flying in a 16 main 100 sq. in. head size. Try the gut @58 in the mains, and the poly @54 in the crosses. It will still feel soft at this tension and give that great power/spin combo.

Thanks for the advice. I had similar thoughts about the power level so that's what I'll go with then. Thankfully the strings were my father's day gift so if I have to cut it out I won't feel too too bad.

I look forward to joining your fine club.

I Heart Thomas Muster
06-19-2011, 09:14 AM
I'm curious... How did you decide on RPM/Gosen JC with JC 4 lbs higher?

(I'm wondering because the RPM would normally lose tension much faster (and more) than the JC.)

Thanks.

For me that felt like the most uniform stringing surface initially and because the Radical Pro chews through strings like no racquet I've used before, by the time the discrepancy becomes really noticeable I've generally broken the strings.

And it's probably just me but the tension loss in RPM doesn't seem as great to me. Maybe because I've never used it in a full bed?

Smasher08
07-09-2011, 07:22 AM
Sneak preview:

http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff488/Smasher08/1310217792-picsay.jpg

Review coming soon!

jjs891
07-09-2011, 11:08 AM
I am currently using NRG2 17 in mains and various polys in the crosses. Although I really like the performance, durability is poor, I get 3-4 hrs of play before NRG snaps. I know that I'll like the performance of gut mains, but how long can I expect this set up to last if I use 16 gauge gut like Bab Tonic+ ?

Viking_Golfer
07-09-2011, 11:14 AM
I am currently using NRG2 17 in mains and various polys in the crosses. Although I really like the performance, durability is poor, I get 3-4 hrs of play before NRG snaps. I know that I'll like the performance of gut mains, but how long can I expect this set up to last if I use 16 gauge gut like Bab Tonic+ ?

One answer - try it !!

But 8-12 hours would be a good guess :)

rudester
07-09-2011, 11:38 AM
Tried a little VS in the mains and black magic in crosses, very nice at 55/53 in PS85.

TaihtDuhShaat
07-09-2011, 08:14 PM
I am currently using NRG2 17 in mains and various polys in the crosses. Although I really like the performance, durability is poor, I get 3-4 hrs of play before NRG snaps. I know that I'll like the performance of gut mains, but how long can I expect this set up to last if I use 16 gauge gut like Bab Tonic+ ?

What racquet and spec do you use? Your setup must bite the ball a ton to saw through the mains that fast. Gut could get expensive if you go through it just as fast. You might do better with a poly main and multifilament or gut cross, or just full poly.

Smasher08
07-10-2011, 04:03 AM
What racquet and spec do you use? Your setup must bite the ball a ton to saw through the mains that fast.

Actually imo the issue here is how smooth/polished the poly crosses are.

Tour bite, for example, has a sharp edge to it that's responsible for its grippiness on the ball when used as mains: imo when used as crosses this is virtually certain to saw through any mains fast. Heptatwist, from what I've read, may avoid this due to its high number of twists so that there isn't a sharp edge constantly perpendicular to the mains.

In any event, the risk of sawing can be easily compensated for by using string savers and avoiding saw-prone polys. The fact remains that the most power, spin and arm-friendliest combinations tend to be gut mains and poly crosses.

But yes, I agree that the choice of strings used will be critical in prolonging hybrid durability.

jjs891
07-10-2011, 08:41 AM
What racquet and spec do you use? Your setup must bite the ball a ton to saw through the mains that fast. Gut could get expensive if you go through it just as fast. You might do better with a poly main and multifilament or gut cross, or just full poly.

I'm playing with Vantage 95 with 16x19 string pattern.
~12.3 oz strung 8pts HL

I've used Genesis hexonic (hexagon shape), Weiscannon silverstring and PL 2 as crosses and it doesn't seem to make any differences in the durability of NRG main. Hexonic has sharp edges but other two are smooth and round I believe.

I like the feel of having nrg in the mains for playability and arm comfort.
I rather re-string often than risk having arm problem.

jjs891
07-10-2011, 08:49 AM
My question was how much more could I expect gut to last compared to NRG. If gut will last about the same, it'll be too expensive for me.

Smasher08
07-10-2011, 01:45 PM
Because NRG is supposed to only have average durability for a multi (http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/feedback-NRG17.html), I'd guess a 16g gut could last 30-50% longer, depending on the brand, its coating, your stroke mechanics, stringing tension, etc.

In the case of 16g gut, I've typically seen reports of it lasting around 20 hrs, even for 5.0+ players. If you're willing to use string savers with it, as long as you're not satellite tour caliber I'd see no reason why you can't get to at least 10.

But in all honesty, there really is only one way for you to find out.

Go for it!

Smasher08
07-10-2011, 03:06 PM
My initial review of PacificGut 1.30 x MSV Co-Focus 1.23 (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=388403).

Mig1NC
07-18-2011, 06:05 PM
Great thread guys.

I've run Pacific Tough Gut 17/Pacific Poly Force @ 53/50, VS Team / Alu Rough @ 58/55, and currently Pacific Prime / Recoil (yeah, not poly, but still...). I also tried some Global Gut, but it was junk compared to Pacific or Babolat.

My next experiment will probably be the other half of my Pacific Prime and either Black Widow or Beast XP as the cross since I have all of that laying around the house.

What do you guys thing? Should I use the Black Widow? Or the Beast XP?

On one hand, the flat edged Black Widow may give better performance, but on the other hand, the Beast XP is supposed to have pretty even performance throughout its tension loss, which would be good since it is matching up with gut.

Power Player
01-25-2012, 07:38 AM
I'm going to revive this as I really want to join the club.

I am using the wilson 6.1 95. Just want to protect my arm from the full poly setups I love. I string full poly between 48-54#s depending on the string. My favorite setup is tour bite at 52#s.

I currently have a mini reel of ALU power so that will be my cross. I also plan to buy some Cofocus since the price is right and you guys are raving about it.

I am thinking 55/52 to start with. Does this provide a pretty loose feeling stringbed? I like a lot of spin. I also notice when I string a syngut past 55#s the Wilson gets a lot more lower powered and I have to hit a much flatter ball than I prefer.

TaihtDuhShaat
01-25-2012, 09:11 AM
My brother hits with a lot of spin and likes low tensions in his BLX 16x18.

He settled on 52/50 with Pacific classic 16g gut and B5E crosses.

He tried a bunch of tensions from 53/49, 54/48, etc. and likes when the gut is a bit lower for the extra power. He also didn't like the poly above 50, too dead.

The only thing is- when the poly is too close in tension to the gut, you feel the poly more. So we are gonna try going back to 53/49 or 54/48 again with the B5E crosses since we only did those with cofocus.

lefty10spro
01-25-2012, 09:17 AM
I don't mess around with the mains anymore. Pacific Tough Gut 16L is my winner - crisp, yet soft and durable. Right now my crosses are BBO and it feels a little plasticy. Beast XP 16 has a much plusher feel and the gut snaps back better with the Beast. I string my gut mains at 50lbs and the crosses at 45 in the Prince EXO3 Rebel 98. Spin it or flatten in out and have fun, fun, FUN!

Power Player
01-25-2012, 09:19 AM
awesome..thanks. Gut at 52 is intriguing. I like that I can keep it low. Ill probably do a 54/50 combo just because the B5e is a very low powered poly and the ALU hits a little heavier.

Ill start there and then edge down if I can.

mikeler
01-25-2012, 09:48 AM
awesome..thanks. Gut at 52 is intriguing. I like that I can keep it low. Ill probably do a 54/50 combo just because the B5e is a very low powered poly and the ALU hits a little heavier.

Ill start there and then edge down if I can.


B5E crosses ate through my gut mains in 3 sets.

Power Player
01-25-2012, 10:34 AM
B5E crosses ate through my gut mains in 3 sets.

Im going to go ALU power and then when I run out try the MSV Cofocus.

Ended up buying VS Touch. It was all they had at the shop. If I like this gut hybrid I will probably save some cash and try the Pacific.

Nojoke
01-25-2012, 04:56 PM
I've used pacific classic mains and co-focus. Very nice. If you want a little crisper, swap the gut with klip legend tour. A crisper gut in everyone's favorite black color.

I've got some sppp to try as a cross. I'm also very curious about that new pacific pro poly power (or something like that) that just garnered awesome reviews from rsi- link in racketholic thread- including supposedly amazing tension retension, which is a major thing I want from a poly cross.

Power Player
01-25-2012, 09:10 PM
Well the tension off the stringer was 53 and my racquet was hitting huge huge balls. Maybe a little too huge for me, but i am going to work with it until the gut breaks. Awesome feel, the spin is very aggressive as well. I think the blx 6.1 may need to have the gut at 58, and i hit with heavy spin. It is just a powerful racquet and with the gut it becomes huge.

One thing i like is that i can swing a lot easier..i just have to remember to do that..i did unload when i could and it is very powerful. I guess my main thing will be seeing how long the gut lasts if i could rotate 2 racquets and get 3 weeks from the gut that way, this may end up being a permanent switch. But if the gut breaks after a week or so, i dont know if i can justify the price..i know one thing..i really love gut..it is so kind on the arm and feels fantastic in the wilson.

I do like alu power a lot, but the cofocus sounds like it could be rather nice and last longer.I did have movement though ( my stick is 16x18 ).in the mains. Nothing really major though, but it was not like my stringbed was locked in and never moved. It was not as bad as a multi though..just some movement, and the middle mains got seperated a little towards the end..not a huge deal though.

Orion3
01-25-2012, 11:57 PM
Count me in.

My original hybrid was VS/BHBR and tried BHSR but most recently tried CoFocus as the cross and have been hugely impressed by it.

I was cutting out the crosses regulary but the CoFocus seems to go on and on.

I seem to have a problem in the UK getting CoFocus though, so am going to try Focus Hex as this seems more readily available. Using Elastocrosses in the sweetspot, so not too worried about notching.

Tried a series of different tensions - 53/46, 53/47, 54/48, 54/49, 54/50, 55/50. Finally settled on 54/49 as it seemed to give me just the right amount touch, feel, control and controllable power.

2Hare
01-26-2012, 02:29 AM
Well the tension off the stringer was 53 and my racquet was hitting huge huge balls. Maybe a little too huge for me, but i am going to work with it until the gut breaks. Awesome feel, the spin is very aggressive as well. I think the blx 6.1 may need to have the gut at 58, and i hit with heavy spin. It is just a powerful racquet and with the gut it becomes huge.

One thing i like is that i can swing a lot easier..i just have to remember to do that..i did unload when i could and it is very powerful. I guess my main thing will be seeing how long the gut lasts if i could rotate 2 racquets and get 3 weeks from the gut that way, this may end up being a permanent switch. But if the gut breaks after a week or so, i dont know if i can justify the price..i know one thing..i really love gut..it is so kind on the arm and feels fantastic in the wilson.

I do like alu power a lot, but the cofocus sounds like it could be rather nice and last longer.I did have movement though ( my stick is 16x18 ).in the mains. Nothing really major though, but it was not like my stringbed was locked in and never moved. It was not as bad as a multi though..just some movement, and the middle mains got seperated a little towards the end..not a huge deal though.

Glad you are enjoying gut/alu :) you might want to raise just the main by 1 or 2 pounds while keeping the cross the same, that should give u less string movement. another thing you might want to try is string savers, in the Federer's pattern. that will limited the movement of the strings near(but not at) the strike zone, giving you better spins, a bit more control, and less string movement. Good luck!

Power Player
01-26-2012, 08:26 AM
Im getting the string savers..good call. I guess you just slide them in after the first session of hitting?

Orion3
01-26-2012, 10:53 AM
Im getting the string savers..good call. I guess you just slide them in after the first session of hitting?

Suggest you use babolat elastocrosses. They are PTFE/Teflon and allow the strings to slide.

I put a fresh lot in each time I restring and it extends the life of the gut mains significantly, without a negative effect on playability.

Power Player
01-26-2012, 11:00 AM
Awesome..that is what I got.

I would like to string up 2 sticks, and alternate them and restring each every 3 weeks. Possibly unrealistic, since I hit pretty big with a lot of spin, but hopefully it works.

I also bought some cofocus since it seems to be the way to go for a longer lasting, somfy poly cross from what I read here.

mikeler
01-26-2012, 11:01 AM
Suggest you use babolat elastocrosses. They are PTFE/Teflon and allow the strings to slide.

I put a fresh lot in each time I restring and it extends the life of the gut mains significantly, without a negative effect on playability.


+1 on the Babolat Elastocross. They are the easiest to install and change the feel of the stringbed the least. If you typically break strings in the same area of the racket, you can put them in there directly after stringing. The problem with waiting for notching is that they help less and less the later you put them in.

Kcraig
01-26-2012, 11:10 AM
Suggest you use babolat elastocrosses. They are PTFE/Teflon and allow the strings to slide.

I put a fresh lot in each time I restring and it extends the life of the gut mains significantly, without a negative effect on playability.

DITTO--I use these once notching/fraying starts (usually around the 6hr mark).

I'm getting ready to try out Pacific Classic 16L/MSV CoFocus 1.23 52/48. Should be able to test it out on Saturday

Power Player
01-26-2012, 11:22 AM
DITTO--I use these once notching/fraying starts (usually around the 6hr mark).

I'm getting ready to try out Pacific Classic 16L/MSV CoFocus 1.23 52/48. Should be able to test it out on Saturday

This seems to be the setup.

I can't string that low though on my stick. I have to go with 58/52 because the 6.1 95 is a boomer.

Keep us posted on how long it lasts for you.

Kcraig
01-26-2012, 07:24 PM
This seems to be the setup.

I can't string that low though on my stick. I have to go with 58/52 because the 6.1 95 is a boomer.

Keep us posted on how long it lasts for you.

This machine seems to always string a bit tighter. So my 52/48 is prolly closer to 56/52 on a crank. Can't wait to test it Saturday. Will hit 30min or so of singles then a few sets of 4.5 dubs. Will def report back.

Power Player
01-30-2012, 07:45 AM
Strung up VSTouch and cofocus at 58/53. This is MUCH better in the 6.1 95. Makes the setup crisper and the racquet feel is more like a prestige. Also am using string savers. I just add them whenever I see notching or fraying.

I dont see the need in buying ALU for the crosses. I think the Cofocus works better in terms of spin. I know that sounds weird, but this was very obvious on approach shots that I had to pick up from a low bounce and use heavy spin to put into a corner.

I will most likely cut out the ALU crosses and put in cofocus in my first stick..that should tighten up the string bed a little and also give me a more comfortable feel. the ALU dies so fast.

Kcraig
01-30-2012, 10:08 AM
Strung up VSTouch and cofocus at 58/53. This is MUCH better in the 6.1 95. Makes the setup crisper and the racquet feel is more like a prestige. Also am using string savers. I just add them whenever I see notching or fraying.

I dont see the need in buying ALU for the crosses. I think the Cofocus works better in terms of spin. I know that sounds weird, but this was very obvious on approach shots that I had to pick up from a low bounce and use heavy spin to put into a corner.

I will most likely cut out the ALU crosses and put in cofocus in my first stick..that should tighten up the string bed a little and also give me a more comfortable feel. the ALU dies so fast.

What gauge Co-Focus are you using. Had my first run with Pacific Classic/CoFocus 1.23 on Sat and it was ok but actually felt a tad sluggish--think the extra weight of gut and poly coupled with the 4g of lead I have a 3.5/9.5 may have added too much to SW. Going to remove the lead and try that. In comparison, same lead setup and 17g Kirschbaum has more feel, spin and control. LOVE THAT STRING!!

Power Player
01-30-2012, 10:34 AM
I used 1.23. plays great as a cross.

Posture Guy
01-30-2012, 11:18 AM
Cool thread.

I've got a Volkl V1 Classic Mid. I demoed a number of hybrids, all with Pacific Classic mains. B5E was just a bit too muted and underpowered. Scorpion actually gave me elbow pain and I never get elbow pain. I'm LOVING Co-Focus in my crosses. Using 17g in both, tensions of 60/56.

I'm thinking about trying Hepta just to see if it feels different.

And I just strung up a stick with Performaxx gut in the mains, otherwise identical setup. Haven't hit with it yet.

TaihtDuhShaat
01-30-2012, 11:58 AM
Scorpion crosses also give me some sharp pain once they've been in the racquet for a while. I noticed it on a late struck forehand return of serve.

Posture Guy
01-30-2012, 12:02 PM
For me, it was instant. Within 15 minutes of hitting with Classic/Scorpion, I had an elbow problem. Never had that with CoFocus. And that's interesting to me because they felt and played very comparably.

TaihtDuhShaat
01-30-2012, 12:09 PM
I'm going to switch back to cofocus crosses- the gut slid much better on it than scorpion, too!

How big is the headsize and string pattern of the v1 mid?

Nojoke
01-30-2012, 12:53 PM
anyone try sppp as a cross? I strung up 1.18 SPPP yesterday with classic mains. I like the co-focus, but wanted to see if SPPP held tension as well as everyone claims.

Posture Guy
01-30-2012, 01:01 PM
Nojoke....i'm interested to hear your take on it, especially compared to co-focus. I haven't tried it, but it's kind of floated around on my radar. have heard others mention it positively.

Nojoke
01-30-2012, 01:21 PM
Nojoke....i'm interested to hear your take on it, especially compared to co-focus. I haven't tried it, but it's kind of floated around on my radar. have heard others mention it positively.

I'll keep you posted.

Joe

Power Player
01-30-2012, 01:29 PM
the cofocus just is the way to go for me. Once, because if I try every string, ill go mad..lol.

But also, when you just step on the gas and rip the ball, it feels perfect in my 6.1. Crisp like a prestige almost. The spin is very very aggressive as well.

The Big Kahuna
01-30-2012, 05:01 PM
I have tried a couple setups:

1. Klip Natural Gut 16 w/ WC Silverstring 17
2. Klip w/MSV Hepta-Twist 17
3. Pacific Classic Natural Gut 16 w/MSV Hepta-Twist 17

Number 3 is now my permanent setup. I liked the way the Klip played, but didn't like the way it frayed so much.

Try the new KLIP Natural Gut TOUR - it is coated and plays great and lasts a long time.

While you are at it, try both MSV Co-Focus and Signum Pro Poly Plasma 18 gauge as cross strings - both soft, playable, and slippery (and CHEAP).

Power Player
01-30-2012, 08:48 PM
VStouch and cofocus is a winner for me. Magic tension is 58-60 on the mains and 53 on the crosses. It is so far holding tension at 50 after dropping from 55 from 3 hours of play. Incredible control, power and spin... it really brings out all the qualities of the 6.1. Best feel ever. I ak putting string savers where i see fraying and that keeps the tension at bay as well.

Honestly amazing. If i can keep the strings lasting long enough, this will be my setup. It feels perfect for how i hit, feel is incredible in the racquet, and the spin is incredible.

Power Player
01-31-2012, 06:54 AM
I saw Klip Legend for $25 so I grabbed a pack. I also grabbed MSV HeptaTwist since the gauge of CoFocus I like was out.

So I should be stocked up for a little bit I hope. I am guessing the same tension of 58/53 should work with these strings as well.

Loving the gutpoly. Life changer.

Sounds like a canon when I make contact now.

The Big Kahuna
02-05-2012, 12:53 PM
After a lot of tinkering with tensions and cross strings, I would definitely put the Co-Focus 1.18 and WC Silverstring 1.20 at the top of the list for playtests with any gut. They are two of the top ten rated polys on Stringforum and all-around solid poly values for the dollar. Chris Edwards also recently suggested I try WC Misquito Bite 1.15 as an alternative to the MSV - which I plan to give a try.

I have found the MSV Co-Focus offers a bit more spin and power for this set up as opposed to the Silverstring. The Silverstring - on the other hand - felt a bit more crisp and precise, yet still very comfortable. Solid, with decent power, yet with good control. A bit less power and spin than the MSV, but perhaps with a bit more feel and tension stability. I suspect the MSV will play better for some in a tighter string pattern or stiffer frame as a cross string, while the Silverstring might be preferable in a more flexible frame.

Anyone ever tried the WC Silverstring 1.20 as an option to the MSV Co-Focus 1.18 as a cross? How about Mosquito Bite?

Nojoke
02-05-2012, 01:28 PM
Nojoke....i'm interested to hear your take on it, especially compared to co-focus. I haven't tried it, but it's kind of floated around on my radar. have heard others mention it positively.

Time for an update comparing my experience with sppp w co focus. Mains with both were pacific classic 17 at 54, poly crosses at 48. My racket is a bb legend weighted to 12 ounces with lead and leather. Sppp was 1.18 and co focus was 1.23. Have about 16 hours on cofocus hybrid and 3 on sppp, so the comparision is preliminary.

Cofocus seems to get better each time i hit with it. I'd imagine it must be dead by now, but the feel and spin get better each time out as the gut mains dominate the feel. The gut is starting to fray and i have about 8 string savers in the frame. Big item here is dwell time--already a specialty of the bb legend, kicked up a notch with the hybrid. Power and control compliment each other very well. Spin drops balls in deep. Moderate swings generate a ball with good loop and late drop. Plush is the word i'd use.

Sppp time is limited in comparison. Despite the thinner gauge, i find the sppp to be stiffer and less powerful. Not a bad stiff, just stiffer. Comparatively, the sppp hits a flatter ball. Really lets you jump on service returns. Touch/feel is good, but not plush. The string is very smooth, so i anticipate spin and feel will continue to increase as notches develop. I find once a "track" is notched into the mains, spin increases.

Thus far, I wouldn't say I like sppp better, but it is plenty good to keep in the racket to see how durability and playing time equal to the cofocus pans out. If you like to hit a bit of a flatter ball, the sppp cross may be up your alley. I played three sets of singles yesterday and was able to switch between the rackets easily. Right now the cofocus racket feels incredible and gives me the confidence to play aggressive. I will keep alternating, but will stick with cofocus for matches that count in league in two weeks.

Joe

The Big Kahuna
02-08-2012, 08:51 AM
You might all find this interesting, as well. From an article by Joshua Speckman in Tennis Player Magazine this month:

"Federer is one of the few pros today that played with full natural gut for a significant part of his career. He was pretty good with it too, beating Sampras at Wimbledon in 2001 with a full bed of gut. So why did he add copoly strings to the mix?"

"Spin control," answers Ferguson. "Spin is part of control, and he gains both. Definitely more spin, and with that comes control. And with that control he can string way down low. He strings at 21.5 or 22 kilos (47 or 48.5 pounds)," he adds."

"Federer's setup actually bears some resemblance to spaghetti strings, as that invention also used natural gut in the mains and a synthetic in the crosses. Many players find the combination of extremely elastic gut mains with stiff, hard and slick copoly crosses to be as, or more, spin-friendly than a full bed of copoly, while also being more comfortable, powerful and giving better feel for the ball."

"In string-on-string friction tests, tennis equipment researcher Crawford Lindsey found that gut mains slide with less friction along copoly crosses than any other string or string combination. And he found that - unlike other strings, where notching ramps up friction and disables the snapback mechanism – inter-string friction actually gets lower as the notches get deeper."

"Why? Natural oils seep out of the gut at the notches and lubricate the string intersections. This suggests that a gut/poly hybrid might retain its spin-generating potential for longer than any other string or combination. Well, at least until the gut breaks."

"Surprisingly, the opposite configuration – poly mains/gut crosses – slides much less easily. Lindsey says the two materials are sticky in reverse perhaps because the surface of the gut crosses quickly abrades, pulling up microscopic fibers that get hung up on the copoly mains as they try to slide."

The full article can be found on Tennisplayer.net.

Other referenced articles on the subject in this article that may be useful or of interest:

Crawford Lindsey, aka "The Professor", has published the most through, useful and up-to-date collection of scientific papers on strings and spin available. For those who want to learn more about the subject, or about other aspects of tennis equipment, there's no better resource.
C. Lindsey's Tennis Warehouse University
Lindsey's groundbreaking experiments on strings and spin:
"What Strings Generate the Most Spin?"
"Spin and String Pattern"
"String Friction Database"
"Spin and String Stiffness"
"String Lubrication & Movement in Spin"

Posture Guy
02-08-2012, 08:57 AM
Wow, Fed strings really low.

I'm stringing my Volkl V1 at 58/54. I wonder how it would feel if I went 50/46. Would love to try, but I hate the idea of potentially wasting a half set of gut along with the time to do it just to try it and maybe hit for 3 minutes and go "ugh, no way".

The Big Kahuna
02-08-2012, 07:47 PM
According to John Youngblood at Guts and Glory - for most people - you should never string poly above 48 pounds for maximum playability and comfort. You can check the website for a very detailed explanation on their blog "CGT Extra". I find some great information there.

For the record, from the information I can find, Federer currently strings his Wilson racquet with Wilson Natural Gut/Luxilon Big Banger Alu Power Rough 48.5/44lbs.

Mike Bryan is uses Prince Natural Gut/Luxilon Big Banger TiMo 54/51lbs.

Novak Djokovic uses Head Natural Gut/Luxilon Big Banger Alu Power Rough 55/52lbs.

Posture Guy
02-08-2012, 08:06 PM
Well sheeeeiit, now I've got some thinkin' to do.

I've got a set of Prince Nat Gut coming. But I think maybe I'll experiment with the last half reel I have of Pac Classic with the CoFocus at the lower tension before I use the pricier stuff. Just concerned I'm going to experience a significant loss of control and an increase in power with that tension drop.

The Big Kahuna
02-09-2012, 06:57 PM
Well sheeeeiit, now I've got some thinkin' to do.

I've got a set of Prince Nat Gut coming. But I think maybe I'll experiment with the last half reel I have of Pac Classic with the CoFocus at the lower tension before I use the pricier stuff. Just concerned I'm going to experience a significant loss of control and an increase in power with that tension drop.

I am hitting right now with the same set-up as noted in my signature at 50/46 due to the cooler weather and it feels pretty sweet. I usually string down a couple pounds in the Winter when the poly gets cold and stiff and the balls get harder.

Power Player
02-09-2012, 07:05 PM
According to John Youngblood at Guts and Glory - for most people - you should never string poly above 48 pounds for maximum playability and comfort. You can check the website for a very detailed explanation on their blog "CGT Extra". I find some great information there.

For the record, from the information I can find, Federer currently strings his Wilson racquet with Wilson Natural Gut/Luxilon Big Banger Alu Power Rough 48.5/44lbs.

Mike Bryan is uses Prince Natural Gut/Luxilon Big Banger TiMo 54/51lbs.

Novak Djokovic uses Head Natural Gut/Luxilon Big Banger Alu Power Rough 55/52lbs.

I think he says 53#s, but yeah..it can lose elasticity when strung too high.

mixedmedia
02-09-2012, 08:14 PM
Nice thread. How did I miss it?

I'm sure I'll have some stuff to ask/add pretty soon, but I want to test a few more things out first.

mixedmedia
02-09-2012, 08:19 PM
Oh, actually I do have something to ask. Earlier in the thread, string savers were mentioned. Anyone have updates on their usage? What's the methodology in applying them (I break in almost the same place every time, a place I wish was lower on the frame). I'm almost worried I may let the gut last too long if I start using string savers and stuff because of dead poly, even in a hybrid. If it's still playable and feels good, should I worry about long term effects that maybe I can't feel? Thoughts?

Power Player
02-09-2012, 08:21 PM
Dewd use the babolat string savers. They are a must for the gut poly 2012 tennis takeover.

mixedmedia
02-09-2012, 08:23 PM
Once I get my setup 100% worked out, I'll definitely give them a shot. Any advice on the pattern of application? Any thoughts on my hesitation b/c of the poly?

mixedmedia
02-09-2012, 08:26 PM
And I have a question about gut/poly in general: how much do you guys think the gauges matter in this configuration, since isn't most of the spin just coming from the sliding of the gut on the poly?

Power Player
02-09-2012, 08:26 PM
No pattern. U put them where u see fraying..its easy man. Ewe will sea.

mixedmedia
02-09-2012, 08:27 PM
Okay, cool. So no added stiffness where I put them?

Power Player
02-09-2012, 08:30 PM
Okay, cool. So no added stiffness where I put them?

Tension goes up a little but you will have lost tension from hitting so its cool. Dont stress..just get the babo savers and put them in when u sea fraying.

Saves u $$$$$$$$ and feels good man.

mixedmedia
02-09-2012, 08:35 PM
Okay, thanks. So no risk of making the setup last too long and having dead, dangerous poly? Any input on my above gauge question?

Power Player
02-09-2012, 08:50 PM
I use 17. Cofocus is soft so when it dies its no biggie at all.

mixedmedia
02-09-2012, 09:02 PM
Thanks for all your help! I just worried a bit about Scorpion, and then started to wonder about gauges with all this string sliding stuff.

Power Player
02-09-2012, 09:03 PM
Thats mad ocd...lol.just have a beer and go hit and you wont care anymore about the other stuff.

mixedmedia
02-09-2012, 09:07 PM
OCD? How so?

Power Player
02-09-2012, 09:09 PM
Ur over thinking. Just dive in and after a few maches you will know what you will want to change (if anything) .

I had one setup with the tension too low, i fixed it and switched to cofocus crosses and now im happy. So it took 2 string jobs to dial it in perfect.

NLBwell
02-09-2012, 09:13 PM
Wouldn't putting string savers in lock the strings in place and reduce spin?

Power Player
02-09-2012, 09:22 PM
Wouldn't putting string savers in lock the strings in place and reduce spin?

I dont notice much spin reduction to be honest.

mixedmedia
02-09-2012, 09:22 PM
Some people even say it increases spin.

Posture Guy
02-10-2012, 03:55 AM
I think he says 53#s, but yeah..it can lose elasticity when strung too high.

So is the magic 'do not exceed' number 48 or 53?

And Big Kahuna, you live in SoCal and yet tension down because of the winter weather? What, did it drop from 78 to 71?

:)

Posture Guy
02-10-2012, 03:56 AM
And I'm interested in the string saver discussion. I just bought some elastocross thingies. Never used them, still might not. I'm not a string breaker. I typically have no problem getting 20 hours out of a string job, and by that point it's time to cut them out anyway. Usually by that point the gut looks like it's pretty close to blowing, but hasn't happened yet.

Power Player
02-10-2012, 05:57 AM
It's 53 when I read it. I don't know if there is a magic number, but generally you want to stay at 53 or lower.

mikeler
02-10-2012, 11:40 AM
If strings last you 20 hours, send your string savers my way. :)

Power Player
02-10-2012, 11:43 AM
Yeah I would not get 10 hours without SSavers. They and the poly crosses are allowing me to do this setup.

Posture Guy
02-10-2012, 12:20 PM
Yeah, I'm not sure why I don't break strings faster. I guess I hit a pretty flat ball. I don't pound the ball, but I play at a reasonably aggressive level. 4.5, all courter.

Hey, I'm not complaining.

Power Player
02-10-2012, 12:28 PM
It matters who you play as well. People who break strings a lot not only swing hard but also play guys who swing hard back.

If you are playing no pace guys a lot, it will give you more string life.

Generally it is a mix of the 2, which is probably why you are not breaking strings a lot. I am in the same boat..I play about 50/50 no pace vs heavy hitters.

Posture Guy
02-10-2012, 12:42 PM
Good point. My mix is the same as you. I play 3x/week. Two of those are with the same two people, just regular hitting sessions, and then 1 ladder match a week. One of my regular hitting partners is a 5.0 woman whose goal is to hit every ball as hard as she possibly can. I love hitting with her, we have great rallies. Then I play a guy who is probably a strong 4.0 who hits hard but is very inconsistent. The points are much shorter with him. Then in the ladder, I'm relatively new to the ladder and they placed me too low when I joined it. Cupcake city at first. I'm finally working my way up to stronger players, but even still, some of these guys have the goal of just getting the ball back and letting you beat yourself. So far I'm able to make them pay for that strategy.

Power Player
02-10-2012, 12:46 PM
Do you lead your MP up at all or play it stock? Just saw you used it. I have a light racquet coming and am trying to figure out what I prefer ( my 6.1 is 12.5ozs ). I have flip flopped between both.

I use 16x19 as well and while that is not exactly ideal for string life, so far I am doing ok.

Posture Guy
02-10-2012, 01:23 PM
Yeah, I started with it stock to get a feel for it, then I added some tape, don't remember how much. I think it's clocking in around 11.8 ounces, somewhere like that. I didn't go crazy with it, but it felt a little unstable against big hitters or especially returning big flat serves. Wanted to keep it a few points head light.

Smasher08
02-10-2012, 05:15 PM
Wouldn't putting string savers in lock the strings in place and reduce spin?

Not at all -- as long as you use the Babolat ones. Their teflon coating makes them slide more and snap right back into place. Federer puts them into the top of his hybrids from the get-go because they facilitate spin production.

I've found they definitely help with it while extending the life of your mains. If you keep putting them in at significant notches, you'll probably double the life of your stringjob.

The Big Kahuna
02-10-2012, 10:00 PM
So is the magic 'do not exceed' number 48 or 53?

And Big Kahuna, you live in SoCal and yet tension down because of the winter weather? What, did it drop from 78 to 71?

:)

I was told 48 pounds. People exceed that all the time, but John @ G&G was very specific in his belief that polys lose their playability and benefits above this number.

After far the temps go here in LA, sure it's in the 70's in the winter in the daytime, but it get;s down into the 40s in the evening!! Brrrrrrrrrrrrrr...

Posture Guy
02-11-2012, 05:32 AM
yeah, I just checked a new package of Co-Focus. It recommends stringing at no more than 24 kg mains and 22 kg crosses. That's 48 pounds for the crosses.

I've got half a reel of Pacific Classic left (my next demo was going to be Prince Natural Gut). I'll try that at the 52-48 to see how it plays.

Quick question, Big Kahuna: can you compare the KLIP Legend gut you play to others like Pacific Classic, Wilson Natural, etc...? Haven't heard much about that one.

COPEY
02-11-2012, 06:08 AM
I've got half a reel of Pacific Classic left

Surely you meant to say "set", yes? If not, where on earth do you get reels of Pacific Classic?

Posture Guy
02-11-2012, 06:11 AM
My bad. Yes, half a set.

That's what I get for typing before I've completed my cup of morning coffee. Apologies.

The Big Kahuna
02-11-2012, 08:30 AM
Quick question, Big Kahuna: can you compare the KLIP Legend gut you play to others like Pacific Classic, Wilson Natural, etc...? Haven't heard much about that one.

KLIP Legend Tour - Highest grade natural gut with tremendous playability. Legend Tour offers 2 coatings providing a livelier feel with more durability. Very responsive string with the uniformly smooth feel of natural gut. 100% Australian. Comes in a non-traditional black color. This string last a long time due to the coating - 30-40 hours easily.

KLIP Legend - Highest grade natural gut with excellent playability. Very responsive string with the uniformly smooth feel of natural gut. 100% Australian.

Posture Guy
02-11-2012, 08:36 AM
Thanks, will probably try a set of the uncoated version here shortly.

The Big Kahuna
02-11-2012, 04:49 PM
TW.com says the KLIP Legend Tour 17 will be back in stock by the end of this month. It is sold out.

In the meantime, here is an update on my current playtest of cross string with that string.


Testing Update (3 hours):

MSV Co-Focus 1.18 impressions: soft, comfortable, resilient, lively, crispy, precise, with good access to spin and good feel. Nice ball pocketing.

Weiss Cannon Mosquito Bite 1.16 impressions: comfortable, lively, crispy, precise, slightly stiff, with decent access to spin and decent feel.

I would expect the MSV to be a bit more durable and to have slightly better tension stability based on it’s diameter.

So far, head to head, I have to say that - as a doubles specialist - the MSV has impressed me more (especially at the net), although, if I was a baseliner I might lean towards the MB. Both these strings are very solid options as crosses with gut in the mains - small gauge to reduce wear, slippery to allow maximum spin potetial, and offer some pop.

I will update this test as the string wears and loses tension. Then I will platest the WC Silverstring 1.20 against the “winner”.

panta77
02-11-2012, 06:24 PM
I have tried Pacific Classic 16 mains at 54 with scorpion 1.22 crosses at 57 in a pure drive like. It feels a bit too powerful, very nice pocketing when hitting flat serves, slices or volleys, also nice for flatter shots. When hitting with topspin swing motion, balls sometimes fly. I was wondering if I could get a bit more spin, and a bit less pop with some few changes but still maintaining gut/poly, as the pocketing and feel nice. Different options:
I was thinking raising the tension to 60/57
Get thinner gut as 17. I am sure I will get a bit more power but hopefully a bit more bite as well. Then get a lower powered poly to compensate.
If I do this, what low powered poly do you recommend that holds the tension well? I think I have read that silverstring is less powerful than scorpion somewhere, but recently someone said just the opposite.
Opinions on low powered poly to tame pacific classic 17 gut and help with spin and good tension hold?
Thanks

Smasher08
02-11-2012, 06:26 PM
MSV Co-Focus. More spin than Scorpion, really conducive to playing at lower tensions. (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=394623)

Go one gauge lower than your mains.

panta77
02-11-2012, 06:49 PM
Lower?? You mean higher I guess, if you have 16 in mains, 17 in crosses, right?
I guess lower you mean, thinner.

Smasher08
02-11-2012, 06:50 PM
Lol yes, precisely. Thinner crosses than mains.

panta77
02-11-2012, 08:47 PM
I see I could get more spin than scorpion but, how about lowering the power (if I am putting 17 gauge gut and thin poly crosses)?

Smasher08
02-11-2012, 08:59 PM
The lower the tension, the more the mains will deflect on contact with the ball and spring back into place, imparting spin.

Paradoxically you'll get more spin which will help tame the power.

Smasher08
02-11-2012, 09:08 PM
Similarly, the higher the tension, the less strings will deflect. Meaning you'll get both less power and less spin.

Unless you hit with an oversize racket, you'll be fine going 2 lbs above the bottom of your racket's tension range. Hell, Fed goes 2-3 lbs lower than his stick's basement tension.

Unless you hit really flat shots, what's there to worry about? No matter how powerful your shots are, as long as there's enough spin they'll land in.

(That said, if you're a 3.5 or 4.0, you need to work on your technique more than you need to worry about string tensions.)

panta77
02-11-2012, 09:36 PM
I am 4.0-4.5 borderline.
What you say makes sense as less tension generates more spin as string move and snap back, but at the same time more rebound from strings so more power.
My racket is similar to a pure drive, 100 inch, 24mm beam. I use a poly/synth gut hybrid regularly and I have lowered my tension from 55 to 53, to 50 etc, and true, more spin, more snap back but more trampoline effect. There is a limit where the stringbed feels too trampoline like though.
The theory makers sense going low on gut and cross poly. But in real life situation, at least on my personal case, there was too much trampoline effect, that is why I think in my personal case a low powered cross poly would be a better idea with a 17 gut main.
Don't you think so?

The Big Kahuna
02-12-2012, 07:20 AM
MSV Co-Focus. More spin than Scorpion, really conducive to playing at lower tensions. (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=394623)

Go one gauge lower than your mains.

Do you know which poly has the least friction of MSV C0-Focus 1.18, WC Misquito Bite 1.16, and WC Silverstring 1.20?

The numbers posted on the TW.com website are hard to decifer.

mixedmedia
02-12-2012, 09:30 AM
I think MSV Co.-Focus has the lowest.

mixedmedia
02-12-2012, 09:36 AM
I am 4.0-4.5 borderline.
What you say makes sense as less tension generates more spin as string move and snap back, but at the same time more rebound from strings so more power.
My racket is similar to a pure drive, 100 inch, 24mm beam. I use a poly/synth gut hybrid regularly and I have lowered my tension from 55 to 53, to 50 etc, and true, more spin, more snap back but more trampoline effect. There is a limit where the stringbed feels too trampoline like though.
The theory makers sense going low on gut and cross poly. But in real life situation, at least on my personal case, there was too much trampoline effect, that is why I think in my personal case a low powered cross poly would be a better idea with a 17 gut main.
Don't you think so?

And you could maybe try a lower powered gut. Also, just wondering why you strung the poly cross 3 pounds higher than the gut when you tried gut/Scorp.

ptb5021
02-12-2012, 02:33 PM
Anybody ever mix natural gut with rough strings? Considering trying a natural gut in the mains with Luxilon adrenaline rough crosses. Hoping the texture wont affect the gut durability.

mixedmedia
02-12-2012, 02:37 PM
I'm pretty sure it will decrease durability.

ptb5021
02-12-2012, 03:01 PM
It definitely will, looking to see if anyone's used it and could give me a ballpark string life.

Aggressive_tennis
02-12-2012, 03:11 PM
Whats a poly to cross with gut in the blx six one 95 16x18 been looking at silver string any others than will help generate a lot of spin

Posture Guy
02-12-2012, 03:12 PM
I would think a rough cross would not only hurt gut durability but would also defeat the purpose of a hybrid, in that the gut mains could now not slide easily over the crosses.

mixedmedia
02-12-2012, 03:14 PM
I agree with PG above.

The Big Kahuna
02-12-2012, 04:17 PM
Whats a poly to cross with gut in the blx six one 95 16x18 been looking at silver string any others than will help generate a lot of spin

Read the article by Joshua Speckman in Tennis Player Magazine in this thread I posted (#124).

Smasher08
02-12-2012, 06:37 PM
It definitely will, looking to see if anyone's used it and could give me a ballpark string life.

One guy posted about heptatwist crosses in my Pac 1.25 x Co-F 1.18 thread and IIRC he said he got about 14 hours out of it. Apparently the spin was ridiculous.

ptb5021
02-12-2012, 08:27 PM
Having never used natural gut before, what do you guys suggest? I see Titan is pretty cheap, but not sure on the quality - I don't see it discussed too much here. Klip and Pacific seem to be good options. Not looking for anything top of the line, something that has good value with emphasis on durability.

mixedmedia
02-12-2012, 08:40 PM
Performaxx LT or some of their other lines (LT is cheapest), Pacific, and maybe Mamba Tennis.

(And did Pacific Classic recently increase in price?)

panta77
02-12-2012, 09:14 PM
mixedmedia, that was a writing error, 57 mains gut, 54 poly crosses.

mixedmedia
02-12-2012, 09:19 PM
Got it. That makes more sense.

The Big Kahuna
02-14-2012, 11:19 AM
Top rated Natural Gut on Stringform for OVERALL performance:

1) Babolat VS Power 17
2) Bow Brand Championship Natural Gut 16
3) Klip Armour Pro 17
4) Babolat VS Touch 16
5) Babolat VS Team 17
6) Pacific Classic Gut 16
7) Pacific Classic Gut 17
8- Bow Brand Professional Natural Gut 16
9) Wilson Natural 16
10) Babolat VS Power 16

The Big Kahuna
02-14-2012, 11:23 AM
Top rated Natural Gut on Stringforum based on play test results for PRICE / PERFORMANCE RATIO (the best performance for the lowest cost):

1) Gaucho Natural Gut 16
2) Bow Brand Championship Natural Gut 16
3) Bow Brand Professional Natural Gut 16
4) Pacific Classic Gut 16
5) Pacific Classic Gut 17
6) Babolat VS Power 17
7) Klip Armour Pro 17
8- Babolat VS Touch 16
9) Babolat VS Power 16
10) Wilson Natural 16

The Big Kahuna
02-15-2012, 10:21 AM
One guy posted about heptatwist crosses in my Pac 1.25 x Co-F 1.18 thread and IIRC he said he got about 14 hours out of it. Apparently the spin was ridiculous.

SMASHER, curious to know if on your way to settling on the MSV Co-Focus you also tried either WC Silverstring 1.20 or WC Scorpion 1.22 as a cross string, and if you did, how they compared with the MSV with the Pacific gut mains.

What was your second favorite poly you play tested?

NYCtennis1
02-15-2012, 04:58 PM
Count me in guys, been hitting with Tonic/TB at 57/55 in my 09 Rebel's. Tempted to go down in tension but that setup just felt so sweet and dialed in. I've got a reel of TB with about 26 half jobs left, I want to get some of the more cost affective gut's as my stringer only stocks Bab gut's.

Leaning towards Pacific Classic but I'm not 100%:confused:

Just wondering do you guys experiment with your guts or is it standard to pick one out of the bunch in the beginning?

mixedmedia
02-16-2012, 04:18 AM
I've experimented with guts. If Performaxx wasn't out there, I probably wouldn't have experimented much, though.

Posture Guy
02-16-2012, 04:35 AM
I've been using Pacific Classic but I tried Performaxx WhisperTouch. It's a nice string. I can't say one is 'better' than the other, they're just different. The performaxx string felt stiffer to me, less 'plush'. I prefer the feel of the Pacific Classic stringbed, but ymmv.

Next up on the string testing docket for me is to try Prince Nat Gut and Wilson Nat Gut and see if they feel like they're worth the extra cash.

mixedmedia
02-16-2012, 05:01 AM
Yeah, I liked the feel of the Pacific better too, but I'm trying the Performaxx Classic Premium to see if I can get some good feel with more durability. And it's a few bucks cheaper than TW's Pacific.

Marcus2137
02-16-2012, 05:23 AM
Having never used natural gut before, what do you guys suggest? I see Titan is pretty cheap, but not sure on the quality - I don't see it discussed too much here. Klip and Pacific seem to be good options. Not looking for anything top of the line, something that has good value with emphasis on durability.


I tried 3 half sets of Titan and all three snapped while stringing. before that i ve been using klip legend 17, and never had problems stringing. TW replaced mine with three half sets of klip legend and they strung up just fine. i'd avoid titan.

Lambsscroll
02-16-2012, 07:01 AM
Having never used natural gut before, what do you guys suggest? I see Titan is pretty cheap, but not sure on the quality - I don't see it discussed too much here. Klip and Pacific seem to be good options. Not looking for anything top of the line, something that has good value with emphasis on durability.

Titan seems to unravel prematurely with tensions higher than 55 pounds. I no longer string that tight so maybe I'll try Titan again since I prefer lower powered guts.

Smasher08
02-17-2012, 08:20 PM
SMASHER, curious to know if on your way to settling on the MSV Co-Focus you also tried either WC Silverstring 1.20 or WC Scorpion 1.22 as a cross string, and if you did, how they compared with the MSV with the Pacific gut mains.

What was your second favorite poly you play tested?

Never tried Silver or Scorp to be honest. I had a hell of a time with poly strings about a year ago: started with Focus Hex 1.18, dabbled in Sonic Pro, then went on to Turbotwist (all with multi or syn crosses) and then my shoulder blew out. I still have a set of Tour Bite I'll never use.

I was taking a hard look at Silver, but having had a favourable impression of MSV strings (which also had a slightly better price), when I came across some of the posts by TimothyO, they sealed the deal. Co-F seemed to have better elasticity, spin, and longevity. Since the latter two were what I was after the most, I pulled the trigger.

Being pretty happy with how the 1.25x1.18 setup went, I doubt I'll try any other cross unless something comes along that's even smoother, more elastic, and holds tension better --at at least the same price point. Personally I think that's a pretty tall order!

As for mains, I'm curious to see if something else could reduce the 8 hour or so break in time for the strings to develop the spinniness I like, while delivering at least the same feel and longevity.

I'll probably give VS a shot, and possibly Tough Gut or Armour Pro, just for the sake of comparing.

EDIT: Oh -- and to answer your question, if I had to pick a 2nd favourite poly, it would have to be Focus Hex. Almost identical to Co-Focus, except for its texture! lol

The Big Kahuna
02-18-2012, 09:02 AM
Thank you for the feedback on the polys, Smasher. I am going to keep the MSV Co-Focus on my next play test but switch from the KLIP Legend Tour I have been using to the Pacific Classic and see how they compare. I suspect it will soften the string bed and give me more feel and comfort. Hard to tell if I will get as much spin, but from your reports, I suspect I will.

I was looking at some other options for crosses, so I checked Stringforum's Top PRICE / PERFORMANCE Rated Poly Strings (as of 2/15/12) for ideas. I was not surprised to see MSV holding three of the top ten spots on the list. The Co-Focus was also named in their Top Ten Overall Polys of the year in the tester's poll in 2011 - the only other string on both lists was the MSV Focus - HEX.

Here are Stringforum's Top PRICE / PERFORMANCE Rated Poly Strings:

1- Ashaway MonoGut 17
2- Signum Pro Poly Deluxe 1.25
3- Völkl Cyclone 17
5- Kirschbaum Touch Turbo 1.30
6 -MSV Co-Focus 1.18
7- MSV Focus - HEX® 1.27
8 - Topspin Poly Polar 17
9- Signum Pro Poly Plasma 1.33
10- MSV Focus - HEX® 1.23
11- Kirschbaum Competition 1.20
12- Kirschbaum Competition 1.25

The Big Kahuna
02-19-2012, 03:24 PM
I hit with the Pacific Classic 1.24 gut mains / MSV Co-Focus 1.18 set-up today and I am a total believer now. Goodbye KLIP gut! Hello Pacific Classic 1.24.

AWESOME! Much more pocketing and more comfortable than the clip and the MSV seem much less spongy in the set-up with the Pacific than it did with the KLIP Legend Tour 17g mains I had been using for the last year in my Prestige. Nice spin, nice feel, good pop, and super comfy!

I am set with my new EXO3 Tour 16 x 18 now. FANTASTIC!

mixedmedia
02-20-2012, 02:07 PM
I tried out Pacific 1.25 @54/Scorpion 1.22 @49 again today. It seems to give more vicious spin than CoF, esp. on angles, and it isn't as loopy, but I see what some of you guys were talking about with the arm pain. I'm going to drop both strings 2 lbs. in my other racquet and see how that goes. I love the control, since I always felt on the edge with CoF, but I may have to go back to it if dropping the tension or using SS doesn't help.

endro
09-29-2012, 02:13 PM
Bringing this thread back to pose a question to those of you who have played extensively with a "champion's choice" setup (VS gut / ALU Rough) or any derivative thereof. I am going to try this setup in the KBT in an attempt to derive more power from the frame.

What would you guys recommend in the way of gauge and tension? I have 16g Pacific Toughgut / 17g OGSM @ 60/58lbs in one and it doesn't get much bite but the strings last pretty much forever. I have 17g Babolat VS / Pacific Classic @ 55lbs in the other and while I get more pop I don't think it is as much as I should be able to generate. Does 18g natural gut even exist? And if so, should I cross it with an 18g poly (TiMO perhaps?) I think I would be venturing into dangerous territory there as far as durability goes. Maybe an 18g gut / 16g alu rough would be best, but I am still not convinced. What do you guys think?

TL;DR : For Champion's Choice - what gauge / tension should I use for the K Blade Tour?

McLovin
10-02-2012, 05:24 AM
The question is, do you routinely break strings? And if so, after how many matches/hours? What surface do you normally play on (e.g., indoor hard, outdoor clay, etc.), and at what level?

I use 17g gut mains, 17g poly crosses (currently Klip Legend & MSV Co. Focus) for outdoor hard & indoor hard, but will switch to 16L or Pacific Tough Gut during clay season as clay will eat the gut up after 5-6 hours of play.

Tension is obviously a personal thing, and as I've found out recently, numbers are irrelevant because it all depends on the stringer & the machine (in other words, one person's 52 can be another's 55). I just would not go too low w/ the gut as the ball will tend to fly below a certain tension. You just need to find what that tension is...

Also, I'd stay away from twisted polys as crosses. They will tend to saw through the gut and impeded the 'snap back' effect people talk about here. Personally, I didn't like ALU Rough (found it too stiff), but that doesn't mean it is bad, just not for me.

endro
10-12-2012, 07:07 AM
Well I play 4.0 singles on indoor hardcourt during the fall/winter...and the same outdoors in the spring/summer. I don't really break strings, but then again all I use is poly and gut (2 most durable strings on the market). Plus in an 18 x 20 frame...my strings never break hence dropping the gauge all the way down to 18g or less (?).

Interesting, how is that setup working for you? What racquet do you use? I'm mostly a flat hitter with a bit of s&v thrown in. I don't think poly would help me much as I don't have the batspeed or swing trajectory for it. I'm trying the isospeed cross soon at mid tension so hopefully that will reign in the power of the gut. I'm just trying to find the thinnest, most powerful strings to put in this thing while still retaining a good amount of directional control.