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View Full Version : Why do people on this board not consider the 2hbh as much of a weapon as the 1hbh?


Ztalin
06-21-2005, 05:17 PM
I've read a lot of posts of people saying they switched to a one handed backhand, and now have no use for a two handed. Or of people saying "it's worth it to learn the 1hbh". How is the 1hbh so superior? I myself get very frustrated when I don't see improvement on something, so I gave up on the 1 hander a little while ago. I do however still one handed slice...

Basically what I'm saying is: Why shouldn't I use a two hander? The one hander frustrates me so much... I've tried everything to no avail (hitting in front, follow through, pull back, reading anylizations, low to high motion, etc). The two hander seems so much more natural to me even after using it for only a couple weeks. I've been using a one hander for the past 2 years (only hardcore starting this year) with no success.

Kana Himezaki
06-21-2005, 05:20 PM
That's just their personal opinion. Mine as well, but that's just how I play.

Both have benefits. If one was clearly better, you wouldn't see so much of both on the pro tour.

Search the forums on this subject, you'll find a lot of things outlining benefits on both. If the two hander is working better for you, then by all means you should use it. It's just what's comfortable and what suits peoples' game.

Rickson
06-21-2005, 05:23 PM
If you like the 2 hander then stick with it, more power to you, but don't hate on us who love the 1 hander. The 1 hander takes more work, but I believe it's worth it in the end and so will you if you keep working on it and don't let frustration get in your way of a beautiful stroke.

Rickson
06-21-2005, 05:24 PM
That's just their personal opinion. Mine as well, but that's just how I play.

Both have benefits. If one was clearly better, you wouldn't see so much of both on the pro tour.

Search the forums on this subject, you'll find a lot of things outlining benefits on both. If the two hander is working better for you, then by all means you should use it. It's just what's comfortable and what suits peoples' game.
Kana, you use a 1 hander? I always thought you used a 2 hander.

Ztalin
06-21-2005, 05:45 PM
If you like the 2 hander then stick with it, more power to you, but don't hate on us who love the 1 hander. The 1 hander takes more work, but I believe it's worth it in the end and so will you if you keep working on it and don't let frustration get in your way of a beautiful stroke.

It just seems that you guys are really concerned with the aesthetic appeal of your stroke. I mean, I wish I could naturally do the one hander, but I don't ever get enough court time to get good at it. No one wants to rally with me if I keep hitting it long or into the net.

Exile
06-21-2005, 05:50 PM
This sounds a little like a RANT or RAVE...

Ztalin
06-21-2005, 05:51 PM
This sounds a little like a RANT or RAVE...

Not at all. I'm actually here looking for input. Thanks for the useless post though. If anything, I'm looking for some sort of reason to continue being frustrated with my 1 hander.

Rickson
06-21-2005, 06:18 PM
It just seems that you guys are really concerned with the aesthetic appeal of your stroke. I mean, I wish I could naturally do the one hander, but I don't ever get enough court time to get good at it. No one wants to rally with me if I keep hitting it long or into the net.
How can we help you if you don't point out what's wrong with your stroke?

Exile
06-21-2005, 06:27 PM
In that case, the search functon works wonders, we've been having a lot of those 1hbh help posts lately...

Ztalin
06-21-2005, 06:30 PM
Sorry.

I use an eastern backhand grip (index knuckle on the top bevel). I am forced to make very weak backhands since my hits never have enough topspin to be pulled down. No matter how hard I try it doesn't seem to hit cleanly enough to go how I want it to. Whenever I try to whip the follow through like I've been told, the ball just ends up sailing way long. When I try to change the angle that I hit it at it hits halfway up the net.

Exile
06-21-2005, 06:38 PM
OK, stop trying to get spin, just practice hitting through the ball, getting a good groove for your form.

to go tennisplayer.net and watch the federer bh sample video.
then go to a mirror and try your best to mimick it until it feels like it works, then go to the court and try it.
If that doesnt work, then use the search function and read the posts we have, then add any more questions.

coolgreen13
06-21-2005, 06:41 PM
I remember in the late 80's early 90's experts said no one with a two handed backhand would ever be #1.

Rickson
06-21-2005, 06:41 PM
Sorry.

I use an eastern backhand grip (index knuckle on the top bevel). I am forced to make very weak backhands since my hits never have enough topspin to be pulled down. No matter how hard I try it doesn't seem to hit cleanly enough to go how I want it to. Whenever I try to whip the follow through like I've been told, the ball just ends up sailing way long. When I try to change the angle that I hit it at it hits halfway up the net.
You are using a closed stance, aren't you? Many 2 handers get used to hitting with an open stance and closing it is one of the keys to a successful transition. BB points out that you should be hitting at a 45 degree angle, you're not hitting from the middle of your body, are you? Are you taking the ball far enough in front of you as well? I still contend that you take a slight bend in the arm although Kana would disagree, but 1 thing we both agree on is that the arm shouldn't be way bent on contact because that means you're taking the ball too late. Check this short list and see.

Ztalin
06-21-2005, 06:45 PM
You are using a closed stance, aren't you? Many 2 handers get used to hitting with an open stance and closing it is one of the keys to a successful transition. BB points out that you should be hitting at a 45 degree angle, you're not hitting from the middle of your body, are you? Are you taking the ball far enough in front of you as well? I still contend that you take a slight bend in the arm although Kana would disagree, but 1 thing we both agree on is that the arm shouldn't be way bent on contact because that means you're taking the ball too late. Check this short list and see.

Yes I am using a closed stance. I didn't start a two hander until a short time ago. My arm is straight on contact definitely.

Might not be taking it far enough in front of me... guess I'll try it out tomorrow.

Rickson
06-21-2005, 06:48 PM
Yes I am using a closed stance. I didn't start a two hander until a short time ago. My arm is straight on contact definitely.

Might not be taking it far enough in front of me... guess I'll try it out tomorrow.
Keep a slight bend in your arm, don't worry about that straight arm theory.

Phil
06-21-2005, 07:02 PM
That's just their personal opinion. Mine as well, but that's just how I play.

Oh really?

http://www.imagehosting.us/imagehosting/showimg.jpg/?id=464181

Bungalo Bill
06-21-2005, 07:06 PM
I've read a lot of posts of people saying they switched to a one handed backhand, and now have no use for a two handed.

Maybe a lot people "try" and switch but a lot of people end up going back to the twohander. The onehanded backhand tends to be easier to learn for a certain type of people in general. Vic Braden has done studies in this area and finds that people who are fine motor skill dominant tend to be able to adjust to the onehanded backhand easier then one who is more gross motor skilled. Although Vic is trying to determine this with more evidence it is still a "soft" science and has room for preference.

Or of people saying "it's worth it to learn the 1hbh". How is the 1hbh so superior? I myself get very frustrated when I don't see improvement on something, so I gave up on the 1 hander a little while ago. I do however still one handed slice...

There are huge benefits using the twohanded backhand. I use the twohanded backhand. First, it is easier to handle high balls. Second, twohanded backhanders tend to have better service returns. Also, if you develop a good slice you will be very tough to beat on the backhand side.

Basically what I'm saying is: Why shouldn't I use a two hander? The one hander frustrates me so much... I've tried everything to no avail (hitting in front, follow through, pull back, reading anylizations, low to high motion, etc). The two hander seems so much more natural to me even after using it for only a couple weeks. I've been using a one hander for the past 2 years (only hardcore starting this year) with no success.

If the twohander is more natural to you, then that is your backhand of choice. Forget the people who say one is more beneficial to another. They both have their strengths and weaknesses. Both backhands can be exploited. Both backhands can be weapons and strong on any surface.

The key to a strong twohander is the slight use of the stomach muscles to start the rotation into the ball. If you relax the arms and allow your upper body to start the turn into the ball from your stomach muscles, you will feel a sense of effortless power and control when you make contact.

I love the twohanded backhand, I like the contact point, the options, the disguise, the power and control I get returning serves - clearly the twohander is a weapon and one you should have no worries about.

The player makes the backhand, not the other way around. Just perfect it and you wont be dissappointed..

TwistServe
06-21-2005, 07:09 PM
I think my one hander is turning out pretty sweet now. Its so effortless I dont ever get tired hitting it. Ever since I got a ball machine I've been able to practice hitting on the rise, hitting on the run, and getting some mad topspin with spiniation. I started using the practice of the ball machine to real life matches and hitting sessions. Wow what a difference. I seriously think my backhand is stronger than my forehand now which I never thought would be possible. I can play right at the baseline and take the ball on the rise even when against heavy topspiners.

To sum UP:
1.) HELL YA the 1hbh is a true weapon!
2.) Get a ball machine

ZhangM58
06-21-2005, 07:09 PM
Actually, I consider the 2 handed backhand a weapon. The 1 hander give you the abality to cover more court, the 2 hander gives less, but it gives you more "drive" if you use it right.

TwistServe
06-21-2005, 07:11 PM
Actually, I consider the 2 handed backhand a weapon. The 1 hander give you the abality to cover more court, the 2 hander gives less, but it gives you more "drive" if you use it right.

The 2 hander can never give you as much drive as the 1 hander, what are you smokin!? You can't cover the same air distance with the 2hander. 2hander is about torque so you can probably get more spin.. One hander is about free range motion thats so fluid its sweetness wrapped in a bow.

Rickson
06-21-2005, 07:12 PM
Oh really?

http://www.imagehosting.us/imagehosting/showimg.jpg/?id=464181
HAHAHAHAHAHA! Detective Phil, you crack me up.

ZhangM58
06-21-2005, 07:14 PM
i dunno... but I find myself with more drive with 2 hander, and thats what my coach says. I guess its a personal perference.

goober
06-21-2005, 07:22 PM
I remember in the late 80's early 90's experts said no one with a two handed backhand would ever be #1.

Uh didn't two handers like Jimmy Connors, Chris Everet, Borg, Tracy Austin already reach #1 in the 70s/early 80s?

Bungalo Bill
06-22-2005, 06:27 AM
The 2 hander can never give you as much drive as the 1 hander, what are you smokin!? You can't cover the same air distance with the 2hander. 2hander is about torque so you can probably get more spin.. One hander is about free range motion thats so fluid its sweetness wrapped in a bow.

Are you kidding? Tell that to Agassi!

When it comes to driving the ball both backhands can drive the ball. It is not necessarily about torque although torque is a neccessity in almost any stroke.

You can cover plenty of court with a twohander. What differs is how one stays balanced in the shot. The onehander provides an easier way to move while staying in balance while the twohander has to learn how to move.

Each backhand has its strengths and weaknesses but it is not in the shot department.

You can do this with either backhand:

1. Hit angles

2. Hit with topspin

3. Drive the ball

4. Loop the ball

5. Hit topspin lobs

6. Volley

The slice backhand is a universal backhand which should be in everyone's game whether they are a onehander or a twohander.

Geez, guys on a court surface that actually plays well into a onehanders game, who won the French this year? In fact, had it not been for that famous rain delay, it very well could have been a different winner at Wimbledon last year.

TwistServe
06-22-2005, 07:14 AM
Are you kidding? Tell that to Agassi!


Agassi's backhand is awesome but from watching his game in recent years he's backhand is more about sharp angle topspin winners than big drives that go through their opponent.

But really anything can be achieved with the right skill level but even Agassi backhand can't drive through Federer's backhand! Look at Gasquet vs Federer in Rome. Gasquet threw some bombs backhands right through federer's backhand causing Fed to mishits one after another. With the 2hander you're basically in a short swing motion because of your non-dominate hand. With the one hander you can start with a huge backswing, drive right through the ball and swing all the way around.. Complete freedom from blockage. In terms of phsyics, I don't see how the 2 hander can have a bigger drive than the one hander.

I guess what i'm saying is, the top 2handers in the game can't really drive through the best 1handers, while the best 1handers can drive through the 2handers.

Bungalo Bill
06-22-2005, 08:09 AM
...but even Agassi backhand can't drive through Federer's backhand!

Yeah well maybe Agassi cant but Safin can! It was also obvious Nadal took it too him as well. LOL

In terms of phsyics, I don't see how the 2 hander can have a bigger drive than the one hander.

Tells us all about the "physics" you are talking about so we can debate and see whether you are just forming an opinion or it is factual. I certainly would like to hear it.

I guess what i'm saying is, the top 2handers in the game can't really drive through the best 1handers, while the best 1handers can drive through the 2handers.

Again, huge opinion. Please provide the proof that this is so.

TwistServe
06-22-2005, 08:27 AM
Yeah well maybe Agassi cant but Safin can! It was also obvious Nadal took it too him as well. LOL



Tells us all about the "physics" you are talking about so we can debate and see whether you are just forming an opinion or it is factual. I certainly would like to hear it.



Again, huge opinion. Please provide the proof that this is so.

LOL, I guess everyone has their opinions the game in their own minds. Maybe you ought to talk to Nadal. LOL

Well one short answer: this kid goes through anybody/anything with his backhand:

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b323/TwistServe/gasq2.jpg


I was using Federer as an example of a medium 1hander backhand and that the top 2handers still can't go through it. Tell me have you ever seen anything as powerful and consistent as Gasquet's backhand?

POGO
06-22-2005, 08:29 AM
Nice avatar BB!!! Can't wait to surf this weekend at Manhattan and Hermosa Beach. Hopefully, the red tide has subsided.

TwistServe
06-22-2005, 08:35 AM
Check out the clips as a comparison to the motion you can get with each backhand. The 2handre gets blocked whereas the one hander doesn't. Obviously this isn't proof but still.. which stroke looks cooler :)..



http://www.teachingtennis.com/coach/images/guga.gif

http://www.teachingtennis.com/coach/images/borgbackhand.gif

Bungalo Bill
06-22-2005, 08:44 AM
Well one short answer: this kid goes through anybody/anything with his backhand:

I was using Federer as an example of a medium 1hander backhand and that the top 2handers still can't go through it. Tell me have you ever seen anything as powerful and consistent as Gasquet's backhand?

Here is the bottom-line with me. I am not talking about one special person. I am talking about the stroke in general. The twohander can generate an incredible amount of power from rotation. As many people you can find that thinks the onehander is more powerful, I can do the same for the twohander.

I am also speaking for myself. I can generate much more drive with my twohander then my onehander. There is pace on both, but for the service return, a crosscourt shot, no doubt my twohander can rip the ball over my onehander. Especially on high balls.

Safin has the most incredible backhand power I have ever seen. The guy smacks the ball. With his game at top form, Federer has no chance but to defend blow after blow. It is Safins match to lose.

The twohander can drive a backhand as strong if not stronger then a onehander so I think your information is based on opinion as well as mine. Very difficult to prove as both of us can provide information to support our causes.

The other debate between the backhands is in spin generation with angles. Many take the side that the twohanded backhand is better capable and able to to flip the ball at a sharp angle with lots of topspin then the onehander. That is also an opinion as many onehanders can hit with incredible topspin and ht sharp angles as well.

Bungalo Bill
06-22-2005, 08:49 AM
Check out the clips as a comparison to the motion you can get with each backhand. The 2handre gets blocked whereas the one hander doesn't. Obviously this isn't proof but still.. which stroke looks cooler :)..

LOL, Nice try...

Bungalo Bill
06-22-2005, 08:53 AM
Nice avatar BB!!! Can't wait to surf this weekend at Manhattan and Hermosa Beach. Hopefully, the red tide has subsided.

Thanks! That was Gas Chambers Hawaii. It was about 5' to 7' that day and only three people out.

If you are not familiar with Gas Chambers it is next to Rocky Point and about 300 yards or so from Pipeline. That was my favorite break. I rented a house out there for about 4 years directly in front of this break. Best time of my life.

Rickson
06-22-2005, 09:23 AM
Bungalo Bill, why did you go back to the 2 hander? Didn't you switch to the 1 hander when you were injured?

POGO
06-22-2005, 09:31 AM
Thanks! That was Gas Chambers Hawaii. It was about 5' to 7' that day and only three people out.

If you are not familiar with Gas Chambers it is next to Rocky Point and about 300 yards or so from Pipeline. That was my favorite break. I rented a house out there for about 4 years directly in front of this break. Best time of my life.
haha...you are way above my league.....Hhahahaahha... the largest wave, actually swell I surf was 4 feet :). I wouldn't even dare go in a tube without a life jacket :)

So do you use the short boards to do tricks?

Bungalo Bill
06-22-2005, 10:30 AM
haha...you are way above my league.....Hhahahaahha... the largest wave, actually swell I surf was 4 feet :). I wouldn't even dare go in a tube without a life jacket :)

So do you use the short boards to do tricks?

Since making my way back to California, I have pretty much stopped surfing! Just dont have time and Hawaii spoiled me. If I did go back in the water it would be on a long board. Getting old. ;)

Bungalo Bill
06-22-2005, 10:33 AM
Bungalo Bill, why did you go back to the 2 hander? Didn't you switch to the 1 hander when you were injured?

I went back to the twohander because my lower back finally healed. I like the later contact point better. It suits the way my eyes/brain reads the depth and speed of the ball for timing. I am way more consistent and like it for service returns. I found the power to be better as well especially going crosscourt.

Rickson
06-22-2005, 10:37 AM
I went back to the twohander because my lower back finally healed. I like the later contact point better. It suits the way my brain judges the depth and speed better. I am way more consistent and like it for service returns. I found the power to be better as well especially going crosscourt.How was your 1 hander while it lasted? Were you the Lopez type slice and almost never drive type of guy or Federer mixes up drive and slice type of guy?

Bungalo Bill
06-22-2005, 10:46 AM
How was your 1 hander while it lasted? Were you the Lopez type slice and almost never drive type of guy or Federer mixes up drive and slice type of guy?

It was excellent when I held the contact point well. You need to know that I grew up hitting the slice and the twohander. Back in the late 70's the slice forehand and the slice backhand were taught strokes. My slice is more of the Federer kind. I can either float it or drive it.

The onehander is a sweet shot no doubt but I really think that to hit it consistently you have to be wired for it. I didnt have forever to get the timing right on all shots for topspin. I was very used to the contact point for the twohander and I liked the ability to "wait" until the last split second to change directions.

The onehander to me was like a bow and arrow - very direct shot. The twohander was more like a shot gun.

MTChong
06-22-2005, 10:54 AM
I'm goign to have to agree with BBill here than the two-handed is just as much a weapon as the one-handed backhand. I use the two-handed backhand, and I'm trying out the one-hander over summer to see whether I want to make a switch or not. I find I can really crank the one-hander easily but it seems more natural for me to do it like that, while with the two-hander, I can rip them back as well even if I use just my arms so when I add in my whole kinetic chain to the mix, I'd say it's just as potent. Also since my two-handed backhand is relatively flat, it's a threat to lots of players, too.

Camilio Pascual
06-22-2005, 11:32 AM
I remember in the late 80's early 90's experts said no one with a two handed backhand would ever be #1.

Maybe those experts never heard of Jimmy Connors, Bjorn Borg, or Chris Evert.

mucat
06-22-2005, 09:03 PM
I also think the 2hbh is more powerful. I use to have a 2hbh, i love to whack sitter with my 2hbh, I am not a power hitter, but with the 2 hander, I can whack the ball so hard it is not funny. And high balls, now with the 1hbh, I hate high balls with it. However, with the 2hbh, I can actually hit it down flat hard.
But my 2 hander was never very consistent, so I switch to 1hbh.

TwistServe
06-22-2005, 09:15 PM
I also think the 2hbh is more powerful. I use to have a 2hbh, i love to whack sitter with my 2hbh, I am not a power hitter, but with the 2 hander, I can whack the ball so hard it is not funny. And high balls, now with the 1hbh, I hate high balls with it. However, with the 2hbh, I can actually hit it down flat hard.
But my 2 hander was never very consistent, so I switch to 1hbh.

That's why you didn't like the one hander. You let the ball get high. For the one hander you have two options. Either must take the ball on the rise, or stay way back 5+ feet behind the baseline and take it on its way down. If its high sure you can still topspin it but there won't be much pace.. Or you can slice it back.. But really you got two options and I like the former over the latter.

TwistServe
06-22-2005, 09:15 PM
I also think the 2hbh is more powerful. I use to have a 2hbh, i love to whack sitter with my 2hbh, I am not a power hitter, but with the 2 hander, I can whack the ball so hard it is not funny. And high balls, now with the 1hbh, I hate high balls with it. However, with the 2hbh, I can actually hit it down flat hard.
But my 2 hander was never very consistent, so I switch to 1hbh.

That's why you didn't like the one hander. You let the ball get high. For the one hander you have two options. Either must take the ball on the rise, or stay way back 5+ feet behind the baseline and take it on its way down. If its high sure you can still topspin it but there won't be much pace.. Or you can slice it back.. But really you got two options and I like the former over the latter.

Tennis Ball Hitter
06-23-2005, 12:52 AM
I use a 1H BH. I also thought that a 1H BH could hit the ball harder/more pace because you had more leverage than the 2H.

The reason I use a 1H is because I don't feel comfortable with the 2H. I don't just mean while hitting the ball, but also when I am "air swinging" I can't seem to find a natural flowing stroke. I think I just have short arms.

Some things I have noticed with the 2H BH at club level is that most 2handers can take the ball very early and drive it with a lot of pace right off the bounce/very early. I can't do this with my 1H with any sort of control or consistency.

However, when given a deep "sitter", 2H'ers get alot of work on the ball but not so much pace, where as I can really give these balls a ride with my 1H. Same usually goes for balls "on te way down" after the bouce.

mucat
06-23-2005, 08:59 PM
That's why you didn't like the one hander. You let the ball get high. For the one hander you have two options. Either must take the ball on the rise, or stay way back 5+ feet behind the baseline and take it on its way down. If its high sure you can still topspin it but there won't be much pace.. Or you can slice it back.. But really you got two options and I like the former over the latter.

I will probably try to take it on the rise, I already does it with my forehand, like to stand around the baseline and take every ball there. But still, 2 hander can beat the crap out of high balls.

alan-n
06-23-2005, 09:28 PM
Either that or really drive your legs upwards, into the ball, into the air to get the topspin shots. Better be in great shape...

mucat
06-24-2005, 12:56 AM
Either that or really drive your legs upwards, into the ball, into the air to get the topspin shots. Better be in great shape...

It works with a slower ball or something that sit up, but if it is a fast heavy topspin ball, it is very difficult to time it.