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westpac690
04-19-2011, 02:01 PM
http://tennis.com/articles/templates/news.aspx?articleid=11550&zoneid=25

Apparently, the Spaniards are all bent out of shape that they have to play on a surface that is not advantageous to them. Already making excuses if Nadal doesn't play well.
I'm starting to wonder how great any of the players of the current generation can really be considered to be if there has been such an effort to homogenize the sport, and the slow the speed of the courts. How great can we consider Nadal to be if he/Spanish Davis Cup team throws a hissy fit because they have to play on a fast surface?
Nadal is an all time great, but this reaction cheapens his status a bit in my book. He's my favorite current player, and I admire his effort and ability. I think he could excel if they did speed the courts up... But come on man, don't whine because you may have to play with a bit of adversity.
You want to be considered an all time great? Do it through different surfaces, different speeds, face the challenges of the courts you don't excel on and conquer them!
And if this was put out without Nadal's blessing, he should make a statement saying he looks forward to the challenge.

DjokerIsTheBest
04-19-2011, 02:04 PM
Cry babies ........

namelessone
04-19-2011, 02:13 PM
http://tennis.com/articles/templates/news.aspx?articleid=11550&zoneid=25

Apparently, the Spaniards are all bent out of shape that they have to play on a surface that is not advantageous to them. Already making excuses if Nadal doesn't play well.
I'm starting to wonder how great any of the players of the current generation can really be considered to be if there has been such an effort to homogenize the sport, and the slow the speed of the courts. How great can we consider Nadal to be if he/Spanish Davis Cup team throws a hissy fit because they have to play on a fast surface?
Nadal is an all time great, but this reaction cheapens his status a bit in my book. He's my favorite current player, and I admire his effort and ability. I think he could excel if they did speed the courts up... But come on man, don't whine because you may have to play with a bit of adversity.
You want to be considered an all time great? Do it through different surfaces, different speeds, face the challenges of the courts you don't excel on and conquer them!
And if this was put out without Nadal's blessing, he should make a statement saying he looks forward to the challenge.

What does Nadal have do to with this? Did he make any comment?

Albert Costa put out this statement and the article explains why. It's not that it's fast, it's a classifying issue and the fact that the spaniards aren't familiar with this one particular surface or so the article claims.

Spain got whooped by France 5-0 on a very fast court and I don't remember much *****ing about the court.

nadalbestclass
04-19-2011, 02:15 PM
http://tennis.com/articles/templates/news.aspx?articleid=11550&zoneid=25

Apparently, the Spaniards are all bent out of shape that they have to play on a surface that is not advantageous to them. Already making excuses if Nadal doesn't play well.
I'm starting to wonder how great any of the players of the current generation can really be considered to be if there has been such an effort to homogenize the sport, and the slow the speed of the courts. How great can we consider Nadal to be if he/Spanish Davis Cup team throws a hissy fit because they have to play on a fast surface?
Nadal is an all time great, but this reaction cheapens his status a bit in my book. He's my favorite current player, and I admire his effort and ability. I think he could excel if they did speed the courts up... But come on man, don't whine because you may have to play with a bit of adversity.
You want to be considered an all time great? Do it through different surfaces, different speeds, face the challenges of the courts you don't excel on and conquer them!
And if this was put out without Nadal's blessing, he should make a statement saying he looks forward to the challenge.

It's something Nadal has not commented on. SO assuming he feels the same way is unfair. I think it's pretty clear that he enjoys the challenge of playing on different surfaces. You can't criticize him for an opinion that is not stated to be his. If he makes a statement about this, I will eat my words, but you can't just assume.
To me it seems that the writer threw in the Nadal and Roddick thing to spice things up. Nadal might even end up not playing.

dominikk1985
04-19-2011, 02:19 PM
that's nothing compared to what happened in the DC some decades ago.

sometimes a team would water a claycourt all night long before a DC match to make it super slow. that's the homecourt advantage.

rdis10093
04-19-2011, 02:29 PM
russia was fined for doing that a while ago

Dilettante
04-19-2011, 02:40 PM
The article header:

Spain objects to U.S. choice of Davis Cup surface

Shpuld be changed to:

Albert Costa, captain of Spain's DC team, objects to U.S. choice of Davis Cup surface

Because that's what the article says and it's quite different. I'm part of Spain and I wasn't even thinking of the matter.

And if this was put out without Nadal's blessing, he should make a statement saying he looks forward to the challenge.

Because you said so?

cc0509
04-19-2011, 02:53 PM
True we don't know if Nadal knew anything about the statement made by Costa and whether he spoke with Nadal and the rest of the team before he made the statement. However, one would "assume" that he did.

In any case, Costa needs to shut up about the surface and just have his team play the game. If they are talented players they should be able to adapt to any surface just as every great tennis player in the past has had to do when surfaces and technology changed for them. This is nothing new.

ivan_the_terrible
04-19-2011, 02:54 PM
The article header:

Because you said so?

Nadal has no comment, being a simple, humble guy. In fact, Nadal didn't even know there was a guy named Davis giving away cups,

cc0509
04-19-2011, 03:03 PM
Nadal has no comment, being a simple, humble guy. In fact, Nadal didn't even know there was a guy named Davis giving away cups,

LOL. I know. It is unbelievable how people think Nadal is some innocent bystander. If one puts two and two together you would think that Costa spoke to his team about the surface change and they agreed as a team to question the surface. It is idiotic to think Costa would not converse with his team on this issue, especially Nadal being the number 1 player in the world and all.

Dilettante
04-19-2011, 03:25 PM
I didn't think Nadal is "innocent bystander" and that he does not agree with Costa which I don't know and I don't care (and why not wouldn't he be allowed to agree if that was the case?). I only asked OP why should Nadal (or any other player to that matter) make a statement in opposite terms to Costa's.

Shpuld I make the statement too as a Spaniard that I am or only eligible DC players should do it? If everyone else in the country is injured because a sudden plague, they could end electing me for the team. So I'd better make a statement just in case.

In fact, for anyone in disagreement with Costa's words it's his prerrogative to answer and/or refute to the idea of the surface not being allowed by the ITF, which was that Costa said. That'll close the argument.

Fifth Set
04-19-2011, 03:59 PM
This is just a silly mind game from Costa.

This is the same surface as San Jose, where Verdasco has played extremely well, including taking the title just last year.

Manus Domini
04-19-2011, 04:51 PM
Fine, give them an approved surface. Give them indoor carpet or wood...

Devilito
04-19-2011, 05:21 PM
how arrogant of spain

should be on fast 90s carpet with hard balls. Nobody would know what to do. They could bring Petros back from retirement and he could clean up for them

westpac690
04-19-2011, 05:24 PM
Yes, I'm sure Costa does not run anything by the worlds number one tennis player before making any decisions or statements regarding Davis Cup.........
The fella that is so anal about the positioning of his water bottles has no input in Spanish Davis Cup. The fella that is the loveable "Vamos!" yelling spokesman for Nike would never complain about the surface of a court indirectly through his Davis Cup coach so as to not make HIMSELF look like a whiny sore sport and damage his marketability as the "Vamos yelling top rated tennis player."
Something tells me "the Serbian Davis Cup coach" wouldn't have said what "Costa" said.

Manus Domini
04-19-2011, 05:27 PM
how arrogant of spain

should be on fast 90s carpet with hard balls. Nobody would know what to do. They could bring Petros back from retirement and he could clean up for them

Americans are generous. If the Spanish want an ITF registered surface, the Americans will gladly grant them an indoor wood or indoor carpet court with faster balls.

Marius_Hancu
04-19-2011, 05:31 PM
Main reason:

--
The only tournament played on the surface last year was in San Jose.

“It’s a surface we are not familiar with because it doesn’t meet regulations,” Spain captain Albert Costa said. “Only one player has played on it this year and that was Fernando Verdasco.

http://sports.yahoo.com/tennis/news?slug=ap-spain-daviscup
--

And we all know what happened in San Jose: Verdasco was beaten by Raonic :-)

aldeayeah
04-19-2011, 05:32 PM
The current DC rules says that the surface must be currently used in at least (1) a Slam, OR (2) three ATP tournaments with prize money > $350,000.

Good luck finding three such wood tournaments.

And we all know what happened in San Jose: Verdasco was beaten by Raonic

On the other hand, he reached the final...

I'm not a patriot, but I find the knee-jerk reaction in this thread laughable. If the Spanish team is being a poor sport, then the American team is blatantly cheating by ignoring the rules of the competition, if I've understood it right.

Manus Domini
04-19-2011, 05:33 PM
The current DC rules says that the surface must be currently used in at least (1) a Slam, OR (2) three ATP tournaments with prize money > $350,000.

Good luck finding three such wood tournaments.

It's currently used in a former slam, does that count?

aldeayeah
04-19-2011, 05:37 PM
It's currently used in a former slam, does that count?

Dunno, don't think so. I'd actually like to see wood tennis for a change...

westpac690
04-19-2011, 06:23 PM
The current DC rules says that the surface must be currently used in at least (1) a Slam, OR (2) three ATP tournaments with prize money > $350,000.

Good luck finding three such wood tournaments.



On the other hand, he reached the final...

I'm not a patriot, but I find the knee-jerk reaction in this thread laughable. If the Spanish team is being a poor sport, then the American team is blatantly cheating by ignoring the rules of the competition, if I've understood it right.

I just think a professional tennis player should welcome the challenge no matter what the surface. Currently used in Slam tournaments, neighborhood parks or on the moon or not....... "You bring your racquets and game, I'll bring mine and lets go at it." A professional rises to the challenge, they rise to the occasion. Not complain.
If I recall, one of the other sites for consideration has grass courts.... So there you go. It's grass, make sure it's as fast as Wimbledon from around 1994.

westpac690
04-19-2011, 06:29 PM
http://www.tennisnow.com/News/Dispute-Over-Surface-For-USA-Vs--Spain-Davis-Cup-Q.aspx

I like how this website adds in at the end how Nadal didn't win either of the last two hard court tournaments and how poorly the other Spaniards played at them.

nadalbestclass
04-19-2011, 06:41 PM
I just think a professional tennis player should welcome the challenge no matter what the surface. Currently used in Slam tournaments, neighborhood parks or on the moon or not....... "You bring your racquets and game, I'll bring mine and lets go at it." A professional rises to the challenge, they rise to the occasion. Not complain.
If I recall, one of the other sites for consideration has grass courts.... So there you go. It's grass, make sure it's as fast as Wimbledon from around 1994.

This is no neighborhood match-up. There are rules that have been established for a reason. Why should they be broken? The stakes are pretty high here. This is professional tennis. There are rules and you have to follow them. I'll tell you what, the american team would never stand for this BS if the Spaniards were to pull something like this. They would be outraged. They have their share of arrogance and loudmouths. There would certainly be a thread on here call the Spaniards cheaters. Trying to cheat their way to wins by using unapproved surfaces. The double standards here are ridiculous.

Dilettante
04-19-2011, 07:18 PM
I just think a professional tennis player should welcome the challenge no matter what the surface. Currently used in Slam tournaments, neighborhood parks or on the moon or not....... "You bring your racquets and game, I'll bring mine and lets go at it." A professional rises to the challenge, they rise to the occasion. Not complain.

I remind yoy that was the DC captain Albert Costa who spoke and he won't be holding any racquet. And if the surface was really not adjusted to the rules and/ot not ITF approved, he has his right to say it. If you disagree with what he said, just prove he has the wrong information.

There would certainly be a thread on here call the Spaniards cheaters.

If the surface matter happened the other way around, that thread would certainly exist instead of this.

Also, I don't see the problem: are they really proposing a non aproved surface? Just change it for the most similar approved one. I don't understand why the problem is Costa speaking and not the supposedly unapproved surface being used.

If I was Costa and I knew the proposed surface was not according to the rules, I'd just say it too. Again: the rules are the rules.

cc0509
04-19-2011, 07:35 PM
Also, I don't see the problem: are they really proposing a non aproved surface? Just change it for the most similar approved one. I don't understand why the problem is Costa speaking and not the supposedly unapproved surface being used.

If I was Costa and I knew the proposed surface was not according to the rules, I'd just say it too. Again: the rules are the rules.

I agree. You can't blame Costa for objecting to it. He is just doing his job. I would do the same.

Bartelby
04-19-2011, 07:48 PM
The spaniards make a complaint about the surface not being in conformity with the rules and they're poor sports?

Pozarevacka
04-19-2011, 07:52 PM
This is no neighborhood match-up. There are rules that have been established for a reason. Why should they be broken? The stakes are pretty high here. This is professional tennis. There are rules and you have to follow them. I'll tell you what, the american team would never stand for this BS if the Spaniards were to pull something like this. They would be outraged. They have their share of arrogance and loudmouths. There would certainly be a thread on here call the Spaniards cheaters. Trying to cheat their way to wins by using unapproved surfaces. The double standards here are ridiculous.

How were surfaces changed in the first place? I think if they decided to play on sand it should be allowed. Both players play on the same surface and are facing the same elements. I suppose Spain expects to have the match played on clay.

MRG
04-19-2011, 07:58 PM
If the server is not on the list of approved surfaces by the ITF. They do have a point.

Dilettante
04-19-2011, 08:10 PM
I agree. You can't blame Costa for objecting to it. He is just doing his job. I would do the same.

Yes, and if Costa is wrong, the correct answer is not calling him names but showing him that he has the wrong information and that the surface is legal.

if they decided to play on sand it should be allowed. Both players play on the same surface and are facing the same elements. I suppose Spain expects to have the match played on clay.

You're wrong.

If they decided to play on sand, local team could have been practicing on sand for a long time while the rival team has to 1) get themselves a sand court which was unexpected, not being among the DC legal surfaces , 2) they have to get used to that surface's particular conditions in a shorter time than the local team, assuming they can get an identical court to practice on time.

That's why there are certain rules for the surface: no matter if the approved surface suits more the local team, at least with a legal surface the visitor team already knows it from a slam or other important tournaments. So they are already used to it.

So tell me what's the poorer sport:

-Using a non legal surface.

or

-Saying "hey guys you want us to play on a non legal surface and I don't like this"

It's pretty simple, really.

accidental
04-19-2011, 08:16 PM
Imagine how mad they would be if they had to play Australia on a super fast indoor temporary grass court with bad bounces all over the place

Retra
04-20-2011, 01:38 AM
Americans cheaters.

tenis1
04-20-2011, 02:11 AM
Imagine how mad they would be if they had to play Australia on a super fast indoor temporary grass court with bad bounces all over the place

Imagine how mad they would be if they had to play Spain on a super slow outdoor temporary clay court with bad bounces and mud all over the place and on a shaky temporary stadium which falls apart under little wind. See under Benidorm.

I find it funny that Spaniards are complaining now after they did such a bad job organizing a DC tie vs Serbia in Benidorm. Serbian team didn't complain but came and play. Could you imagine what would Costa say and how would he whine if he was a visiting team captain in Benidorm.

babbette
04-20-2011, 02:20 AM
Don't have time to read everything but if it is indeed a surface that they "are not familiar with because it doesn't meet the criteria", the Spanish team might feel the same as Albert. I don't think it's saying that they want a clay surface though.
Rafa might say something like it is not an advantage that it is not a familiar surface but then he'll just get on with it. Fernando won't show up :p

Bartelby
04-20-2011, 02:39 AM
There are rules and they may or may not have been violated, but I'm sure they have a case and sure there will be a fair decision.

cucio
04-20-2011, 03:30 AM
Also Spaniards will be lining up higher ranked players than the US. How's that sporting?

If, for instance, Roddick (13) and Isner (29) will be playing for USA, Spain should line up Verdasco (12) and Robredo (30). Any other line-up is a joke.

babbette
04-20-2011, 03:35 AM
Also Spaniards will be lining up higher ranked players than the US. How's that sporting?

If, for instance, Roddick (13) and Isner (29) will be playing for USA, Spain should line up Verdasco (12) and Robredo (30). Any other line-up is a joke.

How is it Spain's fault that USA are producing under achievers? You chose who you consider your best, that's it.

miyagi
04-20-2011, 03:39 AM
Hold on.....so we are crucifying Nadal over comments that he DIDN'T make but ANOTHER man made? :confused:

LOL

Anyway I believe the problem here (rightly or wrongly) is that the USA have picked a surface which isn't included in DC rules and therefore not legal...

Pozarevacka
04-20-2011, 06:03 AM
Yes, and if Costa is wrong, the correct answer is not calling him names but showing him that he has the wrong information and that the surface is legal.



You're wrong.

If they decided to play on sand, local team could have been practicing on sand for a long time while the rival team has to 1) get themselves a sand court which was unexpected, not being among the DC legal surfaces , 2) they have to get used to that surface's particular conditions in a shorter time than the local team, assuming they can get an identical court to practice on time.

That's why there are certain rules for the surface: no matter if the approved surface suits more the local team, at least with a legal surface the visitor team already knows it from a slam or other important tournaments. So they are already used to it.

So tell me what's the poorer sport:

-Using a non legal surface.

or

-Saying "hey guys you want us to play on a non legal surface and I don't like this"

It's pretty simple, really.

Woah. Sorry I couldn't make much sense out of this. They don't face the same elements because the local 'team' has practiced on it longer? Isn't that the whole point of having a home field advantage? Also, about it not being a DC legal court... Those 'rules' can change any minute, it being a rule doesn't lend any credence to reasoning. And when you say the home team can practice on it longer... Could you explain to me where and when they can practice longer? You do understand tennis is an individual sport in which each person travels the world. The Americans and Spaniards have typically attended the same tournaments this year. If Spain wanted a little extra preparation, maybe they could take the same jet with the Americans and get that extra day. The whole extra preparation excuse is a fable in tennis. So explain to me how a local team has practiced on it for a 'long time'. Furthermore, wouldn't that be good logic on disallowing Spain from selecting clay for their ties? Since Spain has practiced on it for a long time?

Dilettante
04-20-2011, 06:08 AM
Whatever, dude.

ninman
04-20-2011, 06:13 AM
Come on people, the reason they're complaining is because the quality of the court is too good. This is what the humbalito's and in particular Nadal want to play on.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2042/2172078332_1eac1a6b15.jpg

tuk
04-20-2011, 06:13 AM
LOL so the Spaniards should not say anything about it??. It looks to me that they are right to complain, US is not playing by the rules of DC so the Spaniards have the right to protest. Spaniards are right whether you like it or not :)

saloni
04-20-2011, 06:46 AM
Ive not been here long but I cant believe the hatred people have for Nadal on this board. It seems to colour all of their responses. This has little to do with him as he might not even play. I want the US to win this but fairly and legally.

ninman
04-20-2011, 06:49 AM
Ive not been here long but I cant believe the hatred people have for Nadal on this board. It seems to colour all of their responses. This has little to do with him as he might not even play. I want the US to win this but fairly and legally.

Lol, most of the people hating on Nadal are ****ed off Federer fanboy's who don't like Nadal beating their hero constantly and stealing all of his accolades.

Personally I don't like Nadal because I think he's a cheater, but that's just my own personal opinion. My last post was a joke btw, it was meant to be sarcastic I don't know if you picked up on that.

babbette
04-20-2011, 06:56 AM
Lol, most of the people hating on Nadal are ****ed off Federer fanboy's who don't like Nadal beating their hero constantly and stealing all of his accolades.

.

This would seem to be the case as my future bro in law proved to me many times. for this reason he's not invited to wtf

nadalbestclass
04-20-2011, 07:42 AM
Woah. Sorry I couldn't make much sense out of this. They don't face the same elements because the local 'team' has practiced on it longer? Isn't that the whole point of having a home field advantage? Also, about it not being a DC legal court... Those 'rules' can change any minute, it being a rule doesn't lend any credence to reasoning. And when you say the home team can practice on it longer... Could you explain to me where and when they can practice longer? You do understand tennis is an individual sport in which each person travels the world. The Americans and Spaniards have typically attended the same tournaments this year. If Spain wanted a little extra preparation, maybe they could take the same jet with the Americans and get that extra day. The whole extra preparation excuse is a fable in tennis. So explain to me how a local team has practiced on it for a 'long time'. Furthermore, wouldn't that be good logic on disallowing Spain from selecting clay for their ties? Since Spain has practiced on it for a long time?

Seriously dude? This is PROFESSIONAL sports, rules are EVERYTHING. Otherwise people would do whatever they want. If you are going to change rules, it should be approved and everyone should be given notice beforehand. Not after DC matches have started. They need to make sure they make the thing fair for everyone. Your argument might work for street fights, but this is quite different.

Pozarevacka
04-20-2011, 08:06 AM
Ive not been here long but I cant believe the hatred people have for Nadal on this board. It seems to colour all of their responses. This has little to do with him as he might not even play. I want the US to win this but fairly and legally.

The OP is the only person who mentioned Ralph. Since then I do not believe anyone has stated Ralph to have anything to do with this. Why are you focusing on Ralph when for the past 20 posts or so the issue has been about whether they should be allowed to play on the surface or not?

Pozarevacka
04-20-2011, 08:07 AM
Seriously dude? This is PROFESSIONAL sports, rules are EVERYTHING. Otherwise people would do whatever they want. If you are going to change rules, it should be approved and everyone should be given notice beforehand. Not after DC matches have started. They need to make sure they make the thing fair for everyone. Your argument might work for street fights, but this is quite different.

Then perhaps the time between serves rule should finally be adhered to.

Fedace
04-20-2011, 08:12 AM
LOL LOL

"Spain has apparently objected to the brand name, and not the type of surface, but Costa did tell El Pais that when Spain lost to the US in 2007 playing on the surface, they thought it was close too another surface, Greenset (which is used in Europe) but then found out later that it wasn't."

LOL,, that Super fast glass like slick surface is nothing like GREENSET. If this surface isn't on the approved list,,,i would complain also. If US was on the other shoe, they would do the same.
Robredo got Destroyed when he played on this surface years ago.

DjokerIsTheBest
04-20-2011, 08:22 AM
Seriously dude? This is PROFESSIONAL sports, rules are EVERYTHING. Otherwise people would do whatever they want. If you are going to change rules, it should be approved and everyone should be given notice beforehand. Not after DC matches have started. They need to make sure they make the thing fair for everyone. Your argument might work for street fights, but this is quite different.

Yeah ask Nadal about that with the time he takes between points.

nadalbestclass
04-20-2011, 09:11 AM
Then perhaps the time between serves rule should finally be adhered to.

Yeah ask Nadal about that with the time he takes between points.

So if you wanna think of Nadal as the USA, then think of Spain as his opponents. If his opponents complained to the ump for it, would people call them bad sports? No. They are fully within their right to do so. That is all the Spanish team is doing.
I'm not a fan of Nadal taking so much time between points btw, same goes for Novak, but I'm not on the opposite side of the net from them. If I was, and it was killing my rhythm, I'd def complain.



Edit: He apparently addresses the DC surface thing. BUT it's in Spanish, which I do not speak. If you do, plz translate :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrC4H3vSM4o&feature=feedu

jamesblakefan#1
04-20-2011, 12:17 PM
BARCELONA, Spain (AP)—Rafael Nadal says he supports the Spanish federation’s appeal over the United States’ choice of playing surface for the Davis Cup quarterfinal.

Nadal said Wednesday the American team’s choice of surface—called Indoor Hard Premiere—was unknown to him and his teammates.

The world’s top-ranked player says “if at the end (the surface) is not among the official ones, it should be ruled out or stiff fines should be applied, because for tournaments like that $50,000 is peanuts.”

The Spanish federation says the company that makes the surface is not included on the list of 91 manufacturers approved by the International Tennis Federation. The only tournament played on the surface last year was in San Jose.

The July 8-10 quarterfinal will be played in Austin, Texas.

http://sports.yahoo.com/tennis/news?slug=ap-nadal-daviscup

So much for Nadal not having anything to do with it...

TennisandMusic
04-20-2011, 12:19 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/tennis/news?slug=ap-nadal-daviscup

So much for Nadal not having anything to do with it...

He was asked a question, he opined. :lol:

Yes, Nadal is behind everything! Nadal is the embodiment of evil. Continue your quest. :p

Man, does Nadal really own you that much to where you think about him, react to him, and let him sour your mood? What gives.

DjokerIsTheBest
04-20-2011, 12:23 PM
So if you wanna think of Nadal as the USA, then think of Spain as his opponents. If his opponents complained to the ump for it, would people call them bad sports? No. They are fully within their right to do so. That is all the Spanish team is doing.
I'm not a fan of Nadal taking so much time between points btw, same goes for Novak, but I'm not on the opposite side of the net from them. If I was, and it was killing my rhythm, I'd def complain.



Edit: He apparently addresses the DC surface thing. BUT it's in Spanish, which I do not speak. If you do, plz translate :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrC4H3vSM4o&feature=feedu

You women are so pretty when you try to use reason :)

namelessone
04-20-2011, 12:28 PM
Can't believe people are still talking about this.

It's simple: if the surface is not allowed by the DC rules, play on something else that IS in the rulebook.

I don't think it's a issue of speed, but one of familiarity.

Spaniards have played on mega fast indoor HC and were humiliated by the Frenchies 5-0 but I did not hear one peep out of them. Why? Legal surface.

DjokerIsTheBest
04-20-2011, 12:29 PM
If they allow breaking of rules between points then why not allow a surface that breaks the rules?

TMF
04-20-2011, 12:30 PM
If Costa and the Spaniards don’t like the surface, then don’t play. How do they like it if the Americans playing on their soil and complain about the slow clay? Geez, those whiney, spoiled Spaniards. They only think for themselves. Hope they lose big time.

namelessone
04-20-2011, 12:34 PM
If Costa and the Spaniards don’t like the surface, then don’t play. How do they like it if the Americans playing on their soil and complain about the slow clay? Geez, those whiney, spoiled Spaniards. They only think for themselves. Hope they lose big time.

You're missing the point completely genius. The surface isn't according to DC RULES. It's not about how fast it is, it's about familiarity and legality.

As I have said above, the frenchies presented spaniards with a MUCH FASTER surface, a indoor HC(kinda like in Paris masters) and the spaniards were humiliated 5-0. They did not say one thing about the surface, before or after. Why? It was legal, according to DC rules.

Anyway, the match is still on.

Gorecki
04-20-2011, 12:38 PM
What gives.

actually it gives headaches to see a grownman like you in love...

oh... i heard it squeaks... shouldn't you complait about it???

jamesblakefan#1
04-20-2011, 12:42 PM
Apparently Courier says "It's the same court Spain played the US on in 2007. All players are very familiar with an indoor hard court."

http://twitter.com/#!/cs_tennis/status/60788976818208769

Gorecki
04-20-2011, 12:42 PM
any one care to check the ITF page???

ITF Classification does not imply any form of ITF approval or endorsement.

kiki
04-20-2011, 01:15 PM
http://tennis.com/articles/templates/news.aspx?articleid=11550&zoneid=25

Apparently, the Spaniards are all bent out of shape that they have to play on a surface that is not advantageous to them. Already making excuses if Nadal doesn't play well.
I'm starting to wonder how great any of the players of the current generation can really be considered to be if there has been such an effort to homogenize the sport, and the slow the speed of the courts. How great can we consider Nadal to be if he/Spanish Davis Cup team throws a hissy fit because they have to play on a fast surface?
Nadal is an all time great, but this reaction cheapens his status a bit in my book. He's my favorite current player, and I admire his effort and ability. I think he could excel if they did speed the courts up... But come on man, don't whine because you may have to play with a bit of adversity.
You want to be considered an all time great? Do it through different surfaces, different speeds, face the challenges of the courts you don't excel on and conquer them!
And if this was put out without Nadal's blessing, he should make a statement saying he looks forward to the challenge.

In old time fast grass or fast cement, Nadal would stay with his 5 Roland Garros...and nothing else.Of course, providing he had to face a strong field like 80´s or 90´s.

namelessone
04-20-2011, 01:22 PM
In old time fast grass or fast cement, Nadal would stay with his 5 Roland Garros...and nothing else.Of course, providing he had to face a strong field like 80´s or 90´s.

Clearly, let's make this about Nadal. I'm sure it was his decision in the end. :)

oneness
04-20-2011, 01:27 PM
He was asked a question, he opined. :lol:

Yes, Nadal is behind everything! Nadal is the embodiment of evil. Continue your quest. :p

Man, does Nadal really own you that much to where you think about him, react to him, and let him sour your mood? What gives.
actually it gives headaches to see a grownman like you in love...

oh... i heard it squeaks... shouldn't you complait about it???

Yeah... as you grow old you should hate more.
Why don't you learn from some of the masters here, TennisandMusic.

TMF
04-20-2011, 01:28 PM
You're missing the point completely genius. The surface isn't according to DC RULES. It's not about how fast it is, it's about familiarity and legality.

As I have said above, the frenchies presented spaniards with a MUCH FASTER surface, a indoor HC(kinda like in Paris masters) and the spaniards were humiliated 5-0. They did not say one thing about the surface, before or after. Why? It was legal, according to DC rules.

Anyway, the match is still on.

Well, fast surfaces wasn’t giving the French the advantage like it’s giving to the American. Isner and Roddick will definitely benefitted for their serve. Who had a huge serve on the French side? Simon & Monfils are also a counter puncher. Plus, Nadal didn’t play in 2010, that’s the Spaniard’s problem.

Gorecki
04-20-2011, 01:31 PM
soo Mr costa cannot read!!!

let someone tell mr Costa that it's a list of Approved balls and classified courts...

namelessone
04-20-2011, 01:34 PM
Well, fast surfaces wasn’t giving the French the advantage like it’s giving to the American. Isner and Roddick will definitely benefitted for their serve. Who had a huge serve on the French side? Simon & Monfils are also a counter puncher. Plus, Nadal didn’t play in 2010, that’s the Spaniard’s problem.

Llodra and Benneteau has quite a kicker himself when it's on.

The spaniards wouldn't have had a shot even with Nadal on the team. Llodra/Benneteau is a good doubles team and the only guy that can play worth a dam on very fast surfaces from the spanish team is lopez.

Look at llodra in paris masters last year to see what he can do on a fast surface.

Dedans Penthouse
04-20-2011, 01:47 PM
The Spanish Davis Cup Captain is performing his duties as the Spanish Davis Cup Captain.

As well he should.

Game on.

Surely, life will probably go on. ..from there...

TMF
04-20-2011, 01:47 PM
Llodra and Benneteau has quite a kicker himself when it's on.

The spaniards wouldn't have had a shot even with Nadal on the team. Llodra/Benneteau is a good doubles team and the only guy that can play worth a dam on very fast surfaces from the spanish team is lopez.

Look at llodra in paris masters last year to see what he can do on a fast surface.

Djokovic and the Serb beat the French in the end. Had Nole didn’t play, they may not have won. You know that.

Nadal is their best player and had he showed up, the tide turn in their favor.

The 0-5 record is misleading b/c the last two matches was meaningless since Spain was already eliminated(0-3).

namelessone
04-20-2011, 01:52 PM
Djokovic and the Serb beat the French in the end. Had Nole didn’t play, they may not have won. You know that.

Nadal is their best player and had he showed up, the tide turn in their favor.

The 0-5 record is misleading b/c the last two matches was meaningless since Spain was already eliminated(0-3).

LOL, now everything is a Nadal-Djokovic battle on TW. It's ok, they are my 2 fav players after all :)

No, Nadal would not have made any big difference and I say this as a Nadal fan.

The surface was very fast and frenchies had home advantage. Not to mention that pretty much the only player that is very good on such a court from the spanish team is feliciano lopez.

Nadal is decent but not great indoors. Don't let the WTF fool you. That was a slow but low bouncing indoor court. Most indoor courts are way,way faster than that.

sureshs
04-20-2011, 02:33 PM
With all this fuss, if Roddick loses to Nadal on the fast surface, it will be very disgraceful.

President
04-20-2011, 02:39 PM
LOL, now everything is a Nadal-Djokovic battle on TW. It's ok, they are my 2 fav players after all :)

No, Nadal would not have made any big difference and I say this as a Nadal fan.

The surface was very fast and frenchies had home advantage. Not to mention that pretty much the only player that is very good on such a court from the spanish team is feliciano lopez.

Nadal is decent but not great indoors. Don't let the WTF fool you. That was a slow but low bouncing indoor court. Most indoor courts are way,way faster than that.

I'm sure Nadal would have had a great chance of defeating Monfils and Llodra, even indoors. If Nadal was there, the entire dynamic of the tie would change. Llodra is a good player, and he played the best tennis of his life during the Paris Masters. Nevertheless, he is still never going to be a favorite against Nadal, no matter what the surface is, especially in such a high pressure situation. As for Monfils, he's a good player but Nadal is a great player.

With Nadal there, there would not have been as much pressure on Ferrer/Verdasco and I'm sure they could have snuck at least one win.

TheTruth
04-20-2011, 03:06 PM
The current DC rules says that the surface must be currently used in at least (1) a Slam, OR (2) three ATP tournaments with prize money > $350,000.
Good luck finding three such wood tournaments.



On the other hand, he reached the final...

I'm not a patriot, but I find the knee-jerk reaction in this thread laughable. If the Spanish team is being a poor sport, then the American team is blatantly cheating by ignoring the rules of the competition, if I've understood it right.

I'm not a patriot either, but this sounds like a fragrant abuse of the rules. Why am I not surprised?

Looks like the Americans were the cheats. Probably thought Costa wouldn't say anything. Good on him. Play by the rules.

Sid_Vicious
04-20-2011, 03:29 PM
I'm not a patriot either, but this sounds like a fragrant abuse of the rules. Why am I not surprised?

Looks like the Americans were the cheats. Probably thought Costa wouldn't say anything. Good on him. Play by the rules.
Cheats? That is an outrageous accusation. This surface was used in 2007 when the U.S won the davis cup. It was perfectly legitimate at the time and most likely the American team did not know that Costa would whine like baby about it. It is not like NASA just developed a brand new surface designed to let Americans win.

jamesblakefan#1
04-20-2011, 03:32 PM
Cheats? That is an outrageous accusation. This surface was used in 2007 when the U.S won the davis cup. It was perfectly legitimate at the time and most likely the American team did not know that Costa would whine like baby about it. It is not like NASA just developed a brand new surface designed to let Americans win.

Exactly. It's the same surface that the US used against Spain in 07 and in the final against Russia as well.

http://blogs.tennis.com/tennisworld/2011/04/tj.html

Dilettante
04-20-2011, 03:34 PM
soo Mr costa cannot read!!!

let someone tell mr Costa that it's a list of Approved balls and classified courts...

It's you "genius" who apparently cannot understand what you read, not to say the implications of it.

One thing is the general classification of courts made but the ITF that you are —in a quite simplistic way— presenting as the core argument of the matter. But other thing and the important argument here are the rules of the 2001 Davis Cup competition. This is what the DC rules say:

For all ties in the World Group and Zonal Group I the court surface must be of a type used in a Grand Slam Tournament or in a minimum of three tournaments in the men's professional tour held in the year previous to tie.

That is what applies, the actual DC rules, not just a general list of surfaces you found in the ITF website or whatever, Einstein.

jackson vile
04-20-2011, 03:43 PM
http://tennis.com/articles/templates/news.aspx?articleid=11550&zoneid=25

Apparently, the Spaniards are all bent out of shape that they have to play on a surface that is not advantageous to them. Already making excuses if Nadal doesn't play well.
I'm starting to wonder how great any of the players of the current generation can really be considered to be if there has been such an effort to homogenize the sport, and the slow the speed of the courts. How great can we consider Nadal to be if he/Spanish Davis Cup team throws a hissy fit because they have to play on a fast surface?
Nadal is an all time great, but this reaction cheapens his status a bit in my book. He's my favorite current player, and I admire his effort and ability. I think he could excel if they did speed the courts up... But come on man, don't whine because you may have to play with a bit of adversity.
You want to be considered an all time great? Do it through different surfaces, different speeds, face the challenges of the courts you don't excel on and conquer them!
And if this was put out without Nadal's blessing, he should make a statement saying he looks forward to the challenge.



What does that have to do with Nadal, why drag him into this???

Dedans Penthouse
04-20-2011, 03:44 PM
I'm not a patriot either, but this sounds like a fragrant abuse of the rules. Why am I not surprised?

Looks like the Americans were the cheats. Probably thought Costa wouldn't say anything. Good on him. Play by the rules.

Right on!....we're the *cheats* !!!! ... While I hope you've noticed that I went to bat for Costa going-to-bat for his team, that said:

I'm with you--the Captain (whatever the country) should have his country's back. God bless Costa, and best of luck to Espana vs. the United States.

That said, ya ever witness (first hand) a US Davis Cup team playing a tie south-of-the-border?

I did. It was pretty *gulp* interesting.

Oh, and from a historical standpoint....note the accomdations that were given by the 'not-so-cheating' defending Davis Cup Champion United States team in 1972 (unheralded).....allowing a "challenger" to HOST the Davis Cup finals in what turned out to be the challenger's "cheating" snakepit in Bucherest, Romania.

(feel free to argue this FACT)

...linespersons giving Romania's Ion Tiriac, leg messages during the deciding match (vs Smith), etc., etc.,

Now THAT my friend, among many other things at the time, WAS cheating at it's highest -- or lowest -- level.

do check out how YOUR (or maybe my 'mileage' is wrong) country got screwed beyond big-time by the Davis Cup set up in '72. Stan Smith = beat a cheating scumbag in the form of Ion Tiriac.

Facts.


Again, best o' luck to Espana & the United States.

Game on.

Bartelby
04-20-2011, 04:10 PM
Read the tennis.com and you'll see the basis of the objection is that they customised the surface in 07 to the point that it no longer played like the commercial product, but it seems that will be declared legal but it's a respectable challenge.


Cheats? That is an outrageous accusation. This surface was used in 2007 when the U.S won the davis cup. It was perfectly legitimate at the time and most likely the American team did not know that Costa would whine like baby about it. It is not like NASA just developed a brand new surface designed to let Americans win.

TheTruth
04-20-2011, 04:47 PM
Cheats? That is an outrageous accusation. This surface was used in 2007 when the U.S won the davis cup. It was perfectly legitimate at the time and most likely the American team did not know that Costa would whine like baby about it. It is not like NASA just developed a brand new surface designed to let Americans win.

Aldeyeah laid out the criteria for surface requests. The Americans didn't fulfill it. They're trying to pull a fast one. Most everyone agrees Costa was within his rights to complain. If you don't see it that way, that's fine, but that how I see it.

westpac690
04-20-2011, 04:50 PM
I think this would be a great time for Jimmy Conners or Johnny Mac to be the Davis Cup coach. No disrespect to Courier. But I would LOVE for the U.S. Davis Cup coach to call out the Spaniards publicly, tell them to put their big boy pants, leave their pacifiers in the Spanish clay and come play some tennis.
But that's just me. I'm kinda tired of all this fake civility in tennis.

TheTruth
04-20-2011, 04:52 PM
Right on!....we're the *cheats* !!!! ... While I hope you've noticed that I went to bat for Costa going-to-bat for his team, that said:

I'm with you--the Captain (whatever the country) should have his country's back. God bless Costa, and best of luck to Espana vs. the United States.

That said, ya ever witness (first hand) a US Davis Cup team playing a tie south-of-the-border?

I did. It was pretty *gulp* interesting.

Oh, and from a historical standpoint....note the accomdations that were given by the 'not-so-cheating' defending Davis Cup Champion United States team in 1972 (unheralded).....allowing a "challenger" to HOST the Davis Cup finals in what turned out to be the challenger's "cheating" snakepit in Bucherest, Romania.

(feel free to argue this FACT)

...linespersons giving Romania's Ion Tiriac, leg messages during the deciding match (vs Smith), etc., etc.,

Now THAT my friend, among many other things at the time, WAS cheating at it's highest -- or lowest -- level.

do check out how YOUR (or maybe my 'mileage' is wrong) country got screwed beyond big-time by the Davis Cup set up in '72. Stan Smith = beat a cheating scumbag in the form of Ion Tiriac.

Facts.


Again, best o' luck to Espana & the United States.

Game on.

Sometimes the world ain't pretty.

Wow, on the cheating. It's bad no matter who does it, national pride has nothing to do with it.

cc0509
04-20-2011, 04:52 PM
I think this would be a great time for Jimmy Conners or Johnny Mac to be the Davis Cup coach. No disrespect to Courier. But I would LOVE for the U.S. Davis Cup coach to call out the Spaniards publicly, tell them to put their big boy pants, leave their pacifiers in the Spanish clay and come play some tennis.
But that's just me. I'm kinda tired of all this fake civility in tennis.

Oh God no! Jimmy Connors and John McEnroe are both nuts! Talented tennis players for sure, but, nuts! Their on court antics were disgusting to me. Much better to have Courier's civility IMO.

westpac690
04-20-2011, 04:57 PM
As a matter of fact, I'm calling it right now. If Roddick and Nadal play each other, Roddick is going to give Nadal a good old fashioned Texas @ss whoopin'. I predict Nadal will be moping all over the court with a sourpuss look on his face probably shooting glances at the chair umpire. Maybe arguing a few aces against him. MAYBE even, pulling up lame halfway through the second set. The last part may be pushing it. I expect Nadal to get frustrated but I don't think he would tank a match or blame the loss on injury like Andy Murray would.
If Roddick plays Ferrer, I expect Ferrer to lose his voice from the grunting and screaming at himself.

jamesblakefan#1
04-20-2011, 06:18 PM
It's you "genius" who apparently cannot understand what you read, not to say the implications of it.

One thing is the general classification of courts made but the ITF that you are —in a quite simplistic way— presenting as the core argument of the matter. But other thing and the important argument here are the rules of the 2001 Davis Cup competition. This is what the DC rules say:

For all ties in the World Group and Zonal Group I the court surface must be of a type used in a Grand Slam Tournament or in a minimum of three tournaments in the men's professional tour held in the year previous to tie.

That is what applies, the actual DC rules, not just a general list of surfaces you found in the ITF website or whatever, Einstein.

The discretion seems to be that the ITF HAS approved the surface in the past for Davis and Fed Cup.

Ideally the surface is available in Europe and it’s sold out there with another brand tag on it and it may be used in other European ATP tournaments, but ITF verifies surfaces by composition (There are Nine such categories) Premiere is an acrylic hard court, and there are lots and lots of similar ones in the ITF’s official 2011 list of approved surfaces.
http://www.livetennisguide.com/2011/04/20/spain-objects-united-state%E2%80%99s-davis-cup-stage/

Spain is making it as if US is coming in with some unknown moon surface. That's not the case at all. It's been approved in the past. Spain's just trying to find a loophole to make it a bit easier IMO.

So yes it does seem to me that Spain is trying to find a loophole to get this particular surface out, even though it's been legal and approved by the ITF in past ties.

And sorry if I'm not sympathetic for Spain.

2009 - Spain wins DC by playing 0 road ties.

Tennis_Monk
04-20-2011, 06:22 PM
The discretion seems to be that the ITF HAS approved the surface in the past for Davis and Fed Cup.


http://www.livetennisguide.com/2011/04/20/spain-objects-united-state%E2%80%99s-davis-cup-stage/

Spain is making it as if US is coming in with some unknown moon surface. That's not the case at all. It's been approved in the past. Spain's just trying to find a loophole to make it a bit easier IMO.

So yes it does seem to me that Spain is trying to find a loophole to get this particular surface out, even though it's been legal and approved by the ITF in past ties.

And sorry if I'm not sympathetic for Spain.

2009 - Spain wins DC by playing 0 road ties.

Your Id says James Blake fan. why would you be symphatetic to Spain ;)

The only point i have to what indicated in your post is, just because ITF has used before for davis cup matches doesnt make it legal/approved.

If ITF rules says that it has to be used for main tour events, then it has to be. If it isnt, then it is a violation of rules.

Tennis_Monk
04-20-2011, 06:24 PM
In old time fast grass or fast cement, Nadal would stay with his 5 Roland Garros...and nothing else.Of course, providing he had to face a strong field like 80´s or 90´s.

In the old time fast grass or fast cement, Nadal would have adopted his game so well that he would have had 17 slams by now. Of course, providing he had to face a strong field like in 80's or 90's.

jamesblakefan#1
04-20-2011, 06:30 PM
The International Tennis Federation clarifies what its rulebook says in regards to a Davis Cup nation choosing a court surface and says there is no “approved” list of courts to draw on.

The Spanish Tennis Federation has appealed to ITF over the surface chosen by the United States for their July Davis Cup quarterfinal in Austin. The surface, called Indoor Hard Premiere, is not on the list of surfaces and brands contained in the ITF’s 2011 "Approved Tennis Balls, Classified Surfaces & Recognized Courts" manual, but the ITF says that the list is only produced as a guide for people who are considering building courts.

The only rules that seems to apply to court surface is the one that says "for all ties in the World Group and Zonal Group - the court surface must be of a type used in a Grand Slam tournament or in a minimum of three tournaments in the men's professional tour held in the year previous to the tie."

Indoor Hard Premiere is used in the tournament in San Jose, California, and the company that produces it in Baltimore also manufactures a similar or identical surface called Latex-ite, which may have used in non-U.S. ATP tournaments, and is listed as being used in 2011 Davis Cup ties between Sweden and Serbia, Sweden and Russia, the Ukraine and the Netherlands, among others. The surface also appears to have been used at the Pilot Pen tournament in New Haven. The company would not respond to Tennis.com citing the sensitivity of the matter.

Indoor Hard Premiere surface was also used in five U.S. Davis Cup home ties and two Fed Cup home ties since 2007, including in the US’ defeat of Spain in Winston-Salem in the 2007 quarterfinals and the 2007 Davis Cup final.

The ITF’s decision on Spain’s appeal will be released on Thursday – Matthew Cronin

http://www.tennis.com/articles/templates/ticker.aspx?articleid=11576&zoneid=6

namelessone
04-20-2011, 07:04 PM
I'm not a patriot either, but this sounds like a fragrant abuse of the rules. Why am I not surprised?

Looks like the Americans were the cheats. Probably thought Costa wouldn't say anything. Good on him. Play by the rules.

Cheats implies intention. I doubt it was the americans intention to start this whole discussion by putting in this surface. Courier probably thought "we played on this before so it should be no problem". And in the end he will probably be right.

TheTruth
04-20-2011, 08:28 PM
Cheats implies intention. I doubt it was the americans intention to start this whole discussion by putting in this surface. Courier probably thought "we played on this before so it should be no problem". And in the end he will probably be right.

I find it hard to believe the Davis Cup captain didn't read over the ITF restrictions, him being new and all. And once it was brought to his attention, why all the hoopla?

It used to be on the list.

It isn't on the list now.

There were shady circumstances the last time.

If he didn't know I don't understand why he wouldn't say "oh, we weren't aware of that."

Why should it even go to a hearing? "I see it's not on the list. My bad."

That's the part that doesn't make sense to me. It's not on the list, why won't the Americans accept that?

NamRanger
04-20-2011, 08:32 PM
I find it hard to believe the Davis Cup captain didn't read over the ITF restrictions, him being new and all. And once it was brought to his attention, why all the hoopla?

It used to be on the list.

It isn't on the list now.

There were shady circumstances the last time.

If he didn't know I don't understand why he wouldn't say "oh, we weren't aware of that."

Why should it even go to a hearing? "I see it's not on the list. My bad."

That's the part that doesn't make sense to me. It's not on the list, why won't the Americans accept that?



The list is a guideline, not an be all and all list.

Murrayfan31
04-20-2011, 08:39 PM
Looking forward to this match being played on a real surface. They really need to bring back wood though. :D

Tyrus
04-20-2011, 08:47 PM
Home court advantage.

TheTruth
04-20-2011, 08:51 PM
The list is a guideline, not an be all and all list.

Really? Then why wouldn't they look at that list and inquire beforehand if it's a legitimate surface before announcing it as a done deal? It sounds weird to me.

namelessone
04-20-2011, 09:07 PM
Looking forward to this match being played on a real surface. They really need to bring back wood though. :D

So all other surfaces are imaginary?

My mind = blown.

What have I been watching this whole time?

Murrayfan31
04-20-2011, 09:09 PM
So all other surfaces are imaginary?

My mind = blown.

What have I been watching this whole time?
You know what I mean. A surface not suited for moonballers who can't play aggressive tennis and hit a lot of winners.

cc0509
04-20-2011, 09:15 PM
I find it hard to believe the Davis Cup captain didn't read over the ITF restrictions, him being new and all. And once it was brought to his attention, why all the hoopla?

It used to be on the list.

It isn't on the list now.

There were shady circumstances the last time.

If he didn't know I don't understand why he wouldn't say "oh, we weren't aware of that."

Why should it even go to a hearing? "I see it's not on the list. My bad."

That's the part that doesn't make sense to me. It's not on the list, why won't the Americans accept that?

Here is the bottom line with this whole thing. The surface was used and approved by the ITF before in Davis Cup ties including against Spain in 2007. However, in 2007 Costa was not the DC Captain for Spain. The fact that the manufacturer of the surface was not on the ITF approved manufacturer's list is the ITF's problem since they have approved it before. It is just nobody contested the use of the surface before. Now Costa comes along and is the DC captain for Spain and he sees that there is a technicality and he must have figured, "why not bring this up." Can't blame Costa. He is just trying to get an advantage for his team. It is just a situation that went undisputed before. I can't see how the ITF will say the surface can't be used now since it has been used and approved by the ITF in the past. In essence it is just a hard court surface but the "manufacturer" is not on the approved list. This is all about technicalities and gamesmanship.

cc0509
04-20-2011, 09:21 PM
Cheats implies intention. I doubt it was the americans intention to start this whole discussion by putting in this surface. Courier probably thought "we played on this before so it should be no problem". And in the end he will probably be right.

Exactly. It has been played on and approved by the ITF before. If anybody looks like an idiot it is the ITF but nobody contested it before so it was not an issue. Now Costa or his legal advisors have noticed the technicality and are raising the technicality. Can't blame Costa or Courier.

namelessone
04-20-2011, 09:25 PM
The discretion seems to be that the ITF HAS approved the surface in the past for Davis and Fed Cup.


http://www.livetennisguide.com/2011/04/20/spain-objects-united-state%E2%80%99s-davis-cup-stage/

Spain is making it as if US is coming in with some unknown moon surface. That's not the case at all. It's been approved in the past. Spain's just trying to find a loophole to make it a bit easier IMO.

So yes it does seem to me that Spain is trying to find a loophole to get this particular surface out, even though it's been legal and approved by the ITF in past ties.

And sorry if I'm not sympathetic for Spain.

2009 - Spain wins DC by playing 0 road ties.

How?

They are NOT going to have a surface change. The spaniards know that. I can't believe that they are dumb as to believe that they will get a surface change so late in the proceedings.

But they do make a good point about the surface. The exact same surface(with the whole brand name thing and being customized and all that) is played only in SAP Open. And because the composition(of the court) is sold under different brand names over in Europe and some of the standards differ a bit means that the spaniards don't know which practice courts(HC of course) near them play similar to the one chosen by the US. See the whole "I thought Greenset was similar to Premiere" surprise the spaniards had back in 2007.

The ITF will clear this up and hopefully we won't have such discussions in the future.

I can't believe people are still talking about the court speed. This is not about the speed but about familiarity with the court.

I've made this point before. Spaniards got their *** handed to them by the French on a very fast indoor court and there wasn't any comment about the surface.

namelessone
04-20-2011, 09:26 PM
You know what I mean. A surface not suited for moonballers who can't play aggressive tennis and hit a lot of winners.

Ah, so you meant a real surface FOR YOU.

Murrayfan31
04-20-2011, 09:31 PM
Ah, so you meant a real surface FOR YOU.
A real surface that stops anti-tennis.

cc0509
04-20-2011, 09:31 PM
How?

They are NOT going to have a surface change. The spaniards know that. I can't believe that they are dumb as to believe that they will get a surface change so late in the proceedings.

But they do make a good point about the surface. The exact same surface(with the whole brand name thing and being customized and all that) is played only in SAP Open. And because the composition(of the court) is sold under different brand names over in Europe and some of the standards differ a bit means that the spaniards don't know which practice courts(HC of course) near them play similar to the one chosen by the US. See the whole "I thought Greenset was similar to Premiere" surprise the spaniards had back in 2007.

The ITF will clear this up and hopefully we won't have such discussions in the future.

I can't believe people are still talking about the court speed. This is not about the speed but about familiarity with the court.

I've made this point before. Spaniards got their *** handed to them by the French on a very fast indoor court and there wasn't any comment about the surface.

The Spaniards are not dumb at all. People are dumb in the past for not noticing the technicality and bringing it forward. They can't be blamed for bringing it up. They are smart to do so, whether or not the surface will be changed. The ITF will now fix this technicality in their rules to avoid future problems.

namelessone
04-20-2011, 09:40 PM
The Spaniards are not dumb at all. People are dumb in the past for not noticing the technicality and bringing it forward. They can't be blamed for bringing it up. They are smart to do so, whether or not the surface will be changed. The ITF will now fix this technicality in their rules to avoid future problems.

Yeah, I agree.

Here's a really good post from tennis.com that pretty much sums the situation:

"The ITF will probably rule that the Hard Premiere surface is OK for the following three reasons:

1. The ITF will probably find that there is enough leeway in the rules to allow the use of any hard court meeting certain ITF general requirements, not just specifically branded hard courts by certain manufacturers;

2. The ITF apparently has allowed use of Hard Premiere or almost identical surfaces made by Premier Concepts, the pertinent Baltimore-based company, in several previous Davis Cup ties, and not allowing use of Hard Premiere now would lead the to the ITF appearing inconsistent in the eyes of many;

3. The ITF very likely wants to avoid, to the largest extent possible, encouraging nations from bringing this type of court-surface issue to the ITF for adjudication in the future. Such disputes would increase the ITF's costs and possibly reduce the ITF's profits. (Sure, the ITF could try to pass the costs on to its member nations, but that would tend to make them grumpy or grumpier.)

If this specific surface by this company has not been used for "three men's pro tour events," as defined by the ITF, the ITF may toss Spain a bone by mandating that the U.S. keep the speed of the court at its "standard" rating, if there is one, or lower. The ITF may insist that the U.S. inform Spain with sufficient notice what the characteristics (speed/bounce/etc.) of the Austin courts will be, so that Spain can prepare similar courts in Spain to use for practice.) However, the ITF will probably be leery of taking such steps, as it probably does not want to set a precedent for micromanaging court surfaces, in light of how many DC ties take place every year.

Even if Spain gets nothing from the ITF in this matter, Costa and the Spanish tennis federation can, at least argue to the Spanish DC players that Costa/the federation stood up for the players. For the federation, this is an important position to be in, considering some recent very poor relations between Spanish DC players and certain top Spanish sports/tennis administrators. (Of course, now that Pedro Muñoz no longer is the president of the RFET, relations between the players and that federation appear to be much calmer than they were while Muñoz was in charge.)"

jamesblakefan#1
04-20-2011, 09:49 PM
How?

They are NOT going to have a surface change. The spaniards know that. I can't believe that they are dumb as to believe that they will get a surface change so late in the proceedings.

So why bring it up then? Is it just whining, gamesmanship, early excuse in case they do lose? I don't think any of us know, but the way I see it, if the surface has been approved in the past then why complain about it now? And there's still conflicting reports as to whether the ITF really enforces this list - the same surface US is using has been used in other DC ties by non US countries.

But they do make a good point about the surface. The exact same surface(with the whole brand name thing and being customized and all that) is played only in SAP Open. And because the composition(of the court) is sold under different brand names over in Europe and some of the standards differ a bit means that the spaniards don't know which practice courts(HC of course) near them play similar to the one chosen by the US. See the whole "I thought Greenset was similar to Premiere" surprise the spaniards had back in 2007.

The ITF will clear this up and hopefully we won't have such discussions in the future.

I can't believe people are still talking about the court speed. This is not about the speed but about familiarity with the court.

I've made this point before. Spaniards got their *** handed to them by the French on a very fast indoor court and there wasn't any comment about the surface.

Let's be honest here - the Spaniards are very likely to not practice on the surface. You have clay season, then grass season, then the DC tie right after Wimbledon. You want me to believe that Nadal, Verdasco, Ferrer and the gang are going to take time out to practice on it even if it were available? So that part of the quote is bs.

Bottom line: This issue is being raised and trying to put US in a bad light, when this surface has been approved in the past by the ITF for DC ties. Now there's an issue.

To me, hard courts is hard courts. It's not like the US is bringing in wood, astroturf, etc. They're bringing in a surface that's used on the ATP tour and has been used in the past in DC ties.

And funny that you keep bringing up France - if anything the beating they took last year gives them more incentive to complain this year about having to play on a fast surface again.

cc0509
04-20-2011, 10:00 PM
So why bring it up then? Is it just whining, gamesmanship, early excuse in case they do lose? I don't think any of us know, but the way I see it, if the surface has been approved in the past then why complain about it now? And there's still conflicting reports as to whether the ITF really enforces this list - the same surface US is using has been used in other DC ties by non US countries.

Why shouldn't they bring it up? The technicality was noticed and brought forward. If it was not noticed and brought forward in the past who is stupid?
Just because something has been done in the past does not mean it is right. They(Spaniards probably through their legal advisors) noticed this inconsistency in the rules and they are right to challenge it and have the ITF sort it out to avoid future challenges. I am sure this surface will be approved for use just as it has in the past, but you can't blame the Spaniards for trying. Nobody is at fault here except for the ITF.

namelessone
04-20-2011, 10:17 PM
Let's be honest here - the Spaniards are very likely to not practice on the surface. You have clay season, then grass season, then the DC tie right after Wimbledon. You want me to believe that Nadal, Verdasco, Ferrer and the gang are going to take time out to practice on it even if it were available? So that part of the quote is bs.

Bottom line: This issue is being raised and trying to put US in a bad light, when this surface has been approved in the past by the ITF for DC ties. Now there's an issue.

To me, hard courts is hard courts. It's not like the US is bringing in wood, astroturf, etc. They're bringing in a surface that's used on the ATP tour and has been used in the past in DC ties.

And funny that you keep bringing up France - if anything the beating they took last year gives them more incentive to complain this year about having to play on a fast surface again.

So the conclusion is that "they hate 'merica", right? :)

We're not talking about speed, but FAMILIARITY.

It's not generic HC, it's played in ONE MAJOR TOURNAMENT on the ATP tour.

The problem here is that the spaniards didn't know what type of court it is due to the differences with the branding names. They didn't know what type of court to practice on in order to better prepare for this tie. They did get fooled with the european Greenset and found out on site in the US that it played quite different to what the US threw at them.

And yes, you have to be crazy if you have a court similar to the one used in US and not practice on it beforehand.

Hardcourts are not generic. Even in the same category there are differences. See IW which is slow,the ball moves more through the court but in Miami, also slow, the surface is like sandpaper(according to Roddick) and it's quite hard to hit through the court, not to mention the the ball gets more action(spin) on it.

Bottom line: the ITF are looking really bad in this situation and hopefully they will fix it so that they don't have these situations in the future ever again.

Gorecki
04-20-2011, 11:35 PM
It's you "genius" who apparently cannot understand what you read, not to say the implications of it.

One thing is the general classification of courts made but the ITF that you are —in a quite simplistic way— presenting as the core argument of the matter. But other thing and the important argument here are the rules of the 2001 Davis Cup competition. This is what the DC rules say:

For all ties in the World Group and Zonal Group I the court surface must be of a type used in a Grand Slam Tournament or in a minimum of three tournaments in the men's professional tour held in the year previous to tie.

That is what applies, the actual DC rules, not just a general list of surfaces you found in the ITF website or whatever, Einstein.

and on what basis are you claiming that there are not 3 tournaments played in such surface smarty pants?

point is... THE LIST THAT I "SIMPLISTICALLY" USE TO SUPPOR MY ARGUMENT IS THE SAME TO WHAT YOUR FELLOW NATIONAL MR COSTA IS USING TO CLAIM WHATEVER HE CLAIMS.

who is the simpleton really?

babbette
04-21-2011, 01:15 AM
Here is Rafa's response, if a Spanish speaker is kind enough to translate?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrC4H3vSM4o&feature=feedu

Underhand
04-21-2011, 04:23 AM
If they allow breaking of rules between points then why not allow a surface that breaks the rules?

Ask Đoković about it, ******.

DjokerIsTheBest
04-21-2011, 05:01 AM
Ask Đoković about it, ******.

Do you have any friends in real life?

JayChu
04-21-2011, 06:12 AM
Dispute settled.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/news/story?id=6401675

egn
04-21-2011, 06:20 AM
http://www.phillyburbs.com/sports/tennis/davis-cup-throws-out-spain-appeal-of-us-surface/article_83728507-643c-5839-98ee-5946c2de17ed.html

Spain gets owned...

namelessone
04-21-2011, 06:25 AM
http://www.phillyburbs.com/sports/tennis/davis-cup-throws-out-spain-appeal-of-us-surface/article_83728507-643c-5839-98ee-5946c2de17ed.html

Spain gets owned...

Let the tie happen first, egn :)

li0scc0
04-21-2011, 06:31 AM
Dispute settled.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tennis/news/story?id=6401675

Thanks for posting.
Most people seemed to miss the intricacy of the issue. It was not the court surface that was at question, but rather the manufacturer of the surface. The surface is fine, it was the manufacturer that was not on the list of the 91.

As an aside, I think the correct ruling was made. I also think the Spanish Davis Cup team was smart in their dispute.

Now it is time to move on and actually play the matches.

namelessone
04-21-2011, 06:38 AM
Thanks for posting.
Most people seemed to miss the intricacy of the issue. It was not the court surface that was at question, but rather the manufacturer of the surface. The surface is fine, it was the manufacturer that was not on the list of the 91.

As an aside, I think the correct ruling was made. I also think the Spanish Davis Cup team was smart in their dispute.

Now it is time to move on and actually play the matches.

Well duuhhh. Most people here are blinded by their "patriotism" so to speak and actually think Spain were trying to play mind games with the US or get them to change to a slower surface for this tie when speed was never a issue in this appeal. Costa was looking out for his team's interest and in his mind, did the right thing by appealing and now he got his OFFICIAL answer.

Hope no major guys(I'm thinking Andy and Rafa) get injured before this tie.

TheTruth
04-21-2011, 06:41 AM
^^^

Agree with both two posts above.

Glad Spain spoke up, otherwise it would have been swept under the rug.

DjokerIsTheBest
04-21-2011, 06:44 AM
LOL, spaniard cry babies get put in their place. Voice of reason comes through in the end! Kudos.

babbette
04-21-2011, 06:48 AM
"the committee said it's the type of acrylic that is used in more than 30 tour events and two Grand Slam tournaments"
more of an advantage for spain then as more spaniards go further in slams than Americans. Woohoo vamos spain

billnepill
04-21-2011, 07:04 AM
Well duuhhh. Most people here are blinded by their "patriotism" so to speak and actually think Spain were trying to play mind games with the US or get them to change to a slower surface for this tie when speed was never a issue in this appeal. Costa was looking out for his team's interest and in his mind, did the right thing by appealing and now he got his OFFICIAL answer.

Hope no major guys(I'm thinking Andy and Rafa) get injured before this tie.

Players don't get injured when it comes to DC. They get "injured" :lol:

jamesblakefan#1
04-21-2011, 08:21 AM
So the conclusion is that "they hate 'merica", right? :)

Yes, because that's totally what my post said. :roll: Jeez.

We're not talking about speed, but FAMILIARITY.

It's not generic HC, it's played in ONE MAJOR TOURNAMENT on the ATP tour.

The problem here is that the spaniards didn't know what type of court it is due to the differences with the branding names. They didn't know what type of court to practice on in order to better prepare for this tie. They did get fooled with the european Greenset and found out on site in the US that it played quite different to what the US threw at them.

And yes, you have to be crazy if you have a court similar to the one used in US and not practice on it beforehand.

Hardcourts are not generic. Even in the same category there are differences. See IW which is slow,the ball moves more through the court but in Miami, also slow, the surface is like sandpaper(according to Roddick) and it's quite hard to hit through the court, not to mention the the ball gets more action(spin) on it.

Bottom line: the ITF are looking really bad in this situation and hopefully they will fix it so that they don't have these situations in the future ever again.

I think it's bollocks. All HC aren't the same, just like all CC aren't the same. You really think that the CC teams use for DC ties is the same and that teams are able to practice for them ahead of time before going there? You can practice all you want but if you get there and the clay's been watered down or is crappy like the one US had to play on in Austria a few years ago - I think they called it the worst court in tennis history, not sure though - then it doesn't matter.

US still won that tie BTW.

And yes I still think it was much ado by nothing by Costa and Nadal, which is made even more clear by the unanimous decision by the ITF. My whole point in this entire thing is that Spain was making it like the US was bringing in some unknown surface, when that's clearly not the case.

namelessone
04-21-2011, 09:32 AM
Yes, because that's totally what my post said. Jeez.

Sorry, couldn't help myself :)



US still won that tie BTW.

And yes I still think it was much ado by nothing by Costa and Nadal, which is made even more clear by the unanimous decision by the ITF. My whole point in this entire thing is that Spain was making it like the US was bringing in some unknown surface, when that's clearly not the case.

I doubt Nadal looked at the surface composition by brand name one day and said "Hey Costa, look what I found!". He was just echoing his team captain's thoughts.

These are the words of the vamosinator before the court ruling: " if at the end (the surface) is not among the official ones, it should be ruled out or stiff fines should be applied, because for tournaments like that $50,000 is peanuts.”

Notice the IF.

Dilettante
04-21-2011, 12:49 PM
I can't see how the ITF will say the surface can't be used now since it has been used and approved by the ITF in the past.

In all sports regulations change by time, and some materials are approved at some point of time and then aren't approved at another point of time. So the materials must be used are the ones approved at this particular point of time, not the past.

Also, the DC rules are very specific about the surfaces to be used as I quoted earlier in this thread. So the past "ITF approved" label, even a current "ITF approved" label is not enough if the surface is not according to DC rules. It could be a currently ITF approved surface but also not a DC compliant surface.

If the USA is not happy with this DC regulation, they can propose an alternative regulation or even fight for a change or what's their prerrogative, but as long they agree to enter the DC with the current rules, they have to act under those rules.

The letter of the law in this case is quite simply really.

Nobody is at fault here except for the ITF.

If the surface is not according to DC rules like it seems to be the case, but if it's really 100% according or not it's a technical discussion I'm not getting into, then the USTA would be also at fault.

The rule might seem stupid or non important to you, that's ok, everyone has his opinion and I could even agree with that, but that's not the question. Your opinion, my opinion don't make the rule less worthy of obedience. If all teams start to not obeying the rules they don't consider important, that would be chaos, because who decides which rules are important enough to be obeyed?

This will probably solved by a mere technical decision based on subtleties, but the rules are quite clear. Tha distintion between surfaces is not that clear and that would be the deciding factor, but that's technicism, not part of the rule.

Manus Domini
04-21-2011, 02:16 PM
I'm not a patriot either, but this sounds like a fragrant abuse of the rules. Why am I not surprised?

Looks like the Americans were the cheats. Probably thought Costa wouldn't say anything. Good on him. Play by the rules.

he was reffering to my suggestion of indoor wood...

reading comprehension at its best :roll:

cc0509
04-21-2011, 02:25 PM
Yes, because that's totally what my post said. :roll: Jeez.



I think it's bollocks. All HC aren't the same, just like all CC aren't the same. You really think that the CC teams use for DC ties is the same and that teams are able to practice for them ahead of time before going there? You can practice all you want but if you get there and the clay's been watered down or is crappy like the one US had to play on in Austria a few years ago - I think they called it the worst court in tennis history, not sure though - then it doesn't matter.

US still won that tie BTW.

And yes I still think it was much ado by nothing by Costa and Nadal, which is made even more clear by the unanimous decision by the ITF. My whole point in this entire thing is that Spain was making it like the US was bringing in some unknown surface, when that's clearly not the case.

You are missing the point. The manufacturer of this HC was not on the approved list by the ITF, a fact that was missed in the past or ignored because DC ties have been played on that surface and the ITF approved it in the past.

Do you really think it was Costa or Nadal that read through the ITF and DC rule books to find this inconsistency? They are tennis player not lawyers. Somehow I think their legal advisors brought the whole issue up and the team decided to run with it. In any case, you cannot blame Costa and his team for bringing this up just because it was not brought up in the past. That is an ignorant analogy and if people had that opinion with everything, nothing would ever move forward and improve in life and everything would stay in the past. Costa had nothing to lose by bringing this technicality up and in the process an inconsistency in the rules by the ITF was clarified for the future.
Of course we knew the ITF would decide in favor of the US especially since they approved the surface in the past.

cc0509
04-21-2011, 02:38 PM
In all sports regulations change by time, and some materials are approved at some point of time and then aren't approved at another point of time. So the materials must be used are the ones approved at this particular point of time, not the past.

Also, the DC rules are very specific about the surfaces to be used as I quoted earlier in this thread. So the past "ITF approved" label, even a current "ITF approved" label is not enough if the surface is not according to DC rules. It could be a currently ITF approved surface but also not a DC compliant surface.

If the USA is not happy with this DC regulation, they can propose an alternative regulation or even fight for a change or what's their prerrogative, but as long they agree to enter the DC with the current rules, they have to act under those rules.

The letter of the law in this case is quite simply really.



If the surface is not according to DC rules like it seems to be the case, but if it's really 100% according or not it's a technical discussion I'm not getting into, then the USTA would be also at fault.

The rule might seem stupid or non important to you, that's ok, everyone has his opinion and I could even agree with that, but that's not the question. Your opinion, my opinion don't make the rule less worthy of obedience. If all teams start to not obeying the rules they don't consider important, that would be chaos, because who decides which rules are important enough to be obeyed?

This will probably solved by a mere technical decision based on subtleties, but the rules are quite clear. Tha distintion between surfaces is not that clear and that would be the deciding factor, but that's technicism, not part of the rule.

I think you are missing my point and what I have said in 3 or 4 posts now. I never said there was no issue. I said Costa can't be blamed for bringing the subject up. There was a technicality or inconsistency whereby the manufacturer was not listed as an approved manufacturer on the ITF rules, yet this same surface was played on in DC ties in the past. Costa brought this forward and the ITF made its decision that the surface was ok. Now this issue will be cleared up in the future. As for the rest of your post, honestly, I have no idea what you are talking about. I just explained the issue in a nutshell. Plain and simple. Read my prior posts as I was very clear on the issue from the get-go and am not one requiring any explanation unlike perhaps others.

jamesblakefan#1
04-21-2011, 02:40 PM
Here's the tie I was referring to earlier - Austria put a court in place the week of the tie in 08.

"It was terrible but at least it was terrible for both sides," Roddick told a news conference. "Is it the worst I've played in the Davis Cup? Absolutely."

The court was only put in place at the start of this week and Roddick believes that did not give the Americans enough time to get used to it.

"I'm not sure why they were granted special permission by the ITF (International Tennis Federation) to do this. I tried asking the referee and didn't get an answer. I don't know who I should ask next."
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=tennis&id=3237235

This is what I was saying about Costa making it seem like US is putting in some foreign unknown surface that's never been seen before, when that's clearly not the case as there are courts w/ similar characteristics all throughout Europe, even if they're not by EXACTLY the same manufacturer.

I'm pretty sure no DC teams get to practice on courts with EXACTLY the same characteristics until they actually get to the tie, so from that perspective it does seem like much ado about nothing from Costa. Again, read his quote.

"It's a court that we are not familiar with because it doesn't meet the criteria," Spanish Davis Cup captain Albert Costa said at a press conference in Barcelona. "So the problem I have right now is to explain to the players what kind of court they will encounter, because even if we wanted to train on a similar one we could not install it because it is not approved."

Costa tried to make it like US is bringing in some alien surface, when the fact is there are several courts w/ similar characteristics as the one the US is using, even if it's not EXACT.

cc0509
04-21-2011, 02:41 PM
Originally Posted by TheTruth
I'm not a patriot either, but this sounds like a fragrant abuse of the rules. Why am I not surprised?

Looks like the Americans were the cheats. Probably thought Costa wouldn't say anything. Good on him. Play by the rules.



he was reffering to my suggestion of indoor wood...

reading comprehension at its best :roll:


LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dilettante
04-21-2011, 02:49 PM
I think you are missing my point and what I have said in 3 or 4 posts now. I never said there was no issue. I said Costa can't be blamed for bringing the subject up. There was a technicality or inconsistency whereby the manufacturer was not listed as an approved manufacturer on the ITF rules, yet this same surface was played on in DC ties in the past. Costa brought this forward and the ITF made its decision that the surface was ok. Now this issue will be cleared up in the future. As for the rest of your post, honestly, I have no idea what you are talking about. I just explained the issue in a nutshell. Plain and simple. Read my prior posts as I was very clear on the issue from the get-go and am not one requiring any explanation unlike perhaps others.

If I miss you point and you don't know that I'm talking about, there's no point in discussing.

I think I explained myself the most clearly I could, though, even if you think what I said was unrelated to your quote. But it could be just an idiomatic mater so let's move on.

cc0509
04-21-2011, 02:51 PM
If I miss you point and you don't know that I'm talking about, there's no point in discussing.

I think I explained myself the most clearly I could, though, even if you think what I said was unrelated to your quote. But it could be just an idiomatic mater so let's move on.


Agreed. Truce! :)

Gimmick
04-21-2011, 02:53 PM
Next thing you know they'll be whining that the humidity wasn't controlled properly and they couldn't find a practice court with the same conditions.

TheTruth
04-21-2011, 02:53 PM
he was reffering to my suggestion of indoor wood...

reading comprehension at its best :roll:

Quote:
Originally Posted by aldeayeah
The current DC rules says that the surface must be currently used in at least (1) a Slam, OR (2) three ATP tournaments with prize money > $350,000.
Good luck finding three such wood tournaments.


On the other hand, he reached the final...

I'm not a patriot, but I find the knee-jerk reaction in this thread laughable. If the Spanish team is being a poor sport, then the American team is blatantly cheating by ignoring the rules of the competition, if I've understood it right.

I'm not a patriot either, but this sounds like a fragrant abuse of the rules. Why am I not surprised?

Looks like the Americans were the cheats. Probably thought Costa wouldn't say anything. Good on him. Play by the rules.

My post had nothing to do with your point. I don't even know what side of the fence you're on. I believe the Americans were trying to pull a fast one if this has become an issue. I also agree that such opinions should not be based on patriotism, but on the rules that were already in place.

I don't see how you figure into this.

cc0509
04-21-2011, 03:04 PM
Here's the tie I was referring to earlier - Austria put a court in place the week of the tie in 08.


http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=tennis&id=3237235

This is what I was saying about Costa making it seem like US is putting in some foreign unknown surface that's never been seen before, when that's clearly not the case as there are courts w/ similar characteristics all throughout Europe, even if they're not by EXACTLY the same manufacturer.

I'm pretty sure no DC teams get to practice on courts with EXACTLY the same characteristics until they actually get to the tie, so from that perspective it does seem like much ado about nothing from Costa. Again, read his quote.

"It's a court that we are not familiar with because it doesn't meet the criteria," Spanish Davis Cup captain Albert Costa said at a press conference in Barcelona. "So the problem I have right now is to explain to the players what kind of court they will encounter, because even if we wanted to train on a similar one we could not install it because it is not approved."

Costa tried to make it like US is bringing in some alien surface, when the fact is there are several courts w/ similar char--acteristics as the one the US is using, even if it's not EXACT.

I understand your point but Costa brought forward a technicality--i.e. the manufacturer was not on the listed approved manufacturers by the ITF. It does not matter if the surface was similar or had similar characteristics. That particular manufactuer was not listed. End of story. Costa was not wrong in bringing the issue forward. As a team leader you need to look for every advantage for your team. It is not his fault if the manufacturer was not listed. It was an oversight by the ITF.

DjokerIsTheBest
04-21-2011, 07:26 PM
Why is this still being discussed? It was ruled that the Spanish are bunch of cheating cry babies. Period. Let's move on.

cucio
04-22-2011, 12:03 AM
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2452/3652935864_cc4756c848.jpghttp://images2.memegenerator.net/ImageMacro/7093457/Im-gonna-fail-troll-you-all-night-long.jpg?imageSize=Medium&generatorName=AnnoyingXBLKid