View Full Version : who would win ATP players from the 80s (now) or top5 women?
dominikk1985
05-03-2011, 04:16 AM
What do you think? can the 80s stars (not late 80s teens like becker, chang or agassi but guys who started in the early 80s and were already in their mid 20s or older like wilander, mac, lendl, connors...) still beat the top WTA players like wozniacki or clijsters?
I know womens tennis can't be compared to mens tennis but those players are 50 now which is not exactly young:D.
who would win? A 50 yo former ATP pro or a 20 yo WTA star?
robow7
05-03-2011, 09:52 AM
I'd take my chances with Mac on a faster surface against any woman and probably Wilander as well, but over weight Lendl is just starting to play again and Connors with hip replacement might be tough. Btw, after what Borg did to some of the men's collegiate players, I would put my money on the Swede as well.
Joe Pike
05-03-2011, 12:00 PM
What do you think? can the 80s stars (not late 80s teens ...
I can think of a late 80s WTA teen who would give today's top5 women a run for their money ...
hoodjem
05-03-2011, 12:28 PM
Who would win? A 50 yo former ATP pro or a 20 yo WTA star?
Interesting proposition: let's pay 51-year old McEnroe to play no-holds-barred, same lines, same everything against WTA world no. 1, 20-year-old Caroline Wozniacki.
Interesting proposition: let's pay 51-year old McEnroe to play no-holds-barred, same lines, same everything against WTA world no. 1, 20-year-old Caroline Wozniacki.
You mean the same man who almost beat Andy Roddick in WTT last summer. I might be willing to bet some money on it.
robow7
05-03-2011, 01:05 PM
I'm definitely in for a couple ounces of gold on the Mac, I'd put down some US $ as well but by the time the match gets played and even if I win, I'm sure I'll still owe someone some money because the way the dollar is shrinking : (
Limpinhitter
05-03-2011, 01:06 PM
What do you think? can the 80s stars (not late 80s teens like becker, chang or agassi but guys who started in the early 80s and were already in their mid 20s or older like wilander, mac, lendl, connors...) still beat the top WTA players like wozniacki or clijsters?
I know womens tennis can't be compared to mens tennis but those players are 50 now which is not exactly young:D.
who would win? A 50 yo former ATP pro or a 20 yo WTA star?
Are you smoking crack?
Don't attack the OP. There's no reason not to believe a female player in her prime can beat an 50 yrs old man. In a 3 set, maybe a man can win the 1st set most of the time, but what about the 2nd and 3rd set when fatigue/stamina comes into play? The edge goes to the youth.
Limpinhitter
05-03-2011, 03:21 PM
Don't attack the OP. There's no reason not to believe a female player in her prime can beat an 50 yrs old man. In a 3 set, maybe a man can win the 1st set most of the time, but what about the 2nd and 3rd set when fatigue/stamina comes into play? The edge goes to the youth.
Yes there is! The OP didn't ask abou any 50 year old. He said a "star" from the 80's. A 50 year old former champion, who still plays and is in shape, will beat any top woman handily, IMO! He might drop a game or two per set, if he loses focus, but, that's about it.
PS: BTW, I didn't attack the OP. I asked a reasonable question under the circumstances. :razz:
Datacipher
05-03-2011, 03:57 PM
I'd take my chances with Mac on a faster surface against any woman and probably Wilander as well, but over weight Lendl is just starting to play again and Connors with hip replacement might be tough. Btw, after what Borg did to some of the men's collegiate players, I would put my money on the Swede as well.
Mac ON ANY surface.....robow is right in that the only way the women have a chance is with injury or conditioning being a factor. If any of these guys are ready to play, and injury-free, the question becomes borderline-aburd.
Mac ON ANY surface.....robow is right in that the only way the women have a chance is with injury or conditioning being a factor. If any of these guys are ready to play, and injury-free, the question becomes borderline-aburd.
Three sets is nothing. If Mac's in shape he wins easily. The guy has never stopped playing tennis.
Limpinhitter
05-03-2011, 04:48 PM
I'd take my chances with Mac on a faster surface against any woman and probably Wilander as well, but over weight Lendl is just starting to play again and Connors with hip replacement might be tough. Btw, after what Borg did to some of the men's collegiate players, I would put my money on the Swede as well.
What DID Borg do to some men's collegiate players? I'm dyin' to know!
robow7
05-03-2011, 04:50 PM
Three sets is nothing. If Mac's in shape he wins easily. The guy has never stopped playing tennis.
Actually it only goes two sets so yea mobility might be more important than conditioning.
I'm wondering how Mac would do on slow red clay, do you think it would be closer because I know on a faster surface when he slides that lefty serve out wide in the ad and follows it in, I'm betting he wins ninety per cent of the points.
robow7
05-03-2011, 04:55 PM
What DID Borg do to some men's collegiate players? I'm dyin' to know!
http://www.boston.com/sports/other_sports/tennis/articles/2010/04/29/bjorn_again/
Limpinhitter
05-03-2011, 06:03 PM
http://www.boston.com/sports/other_sports/tennis/articles/2010/04/29/bjorn_again/
Harvard! OK! But I'd really like to see what he could do against Virginia, So. Cal., Florida, Stanford, et al. players.
NLBwell
05-03-2011, 06:11 PM
If the 80's men stayed in good shape and kept playing tennis they would win easily. If you stay in good shape, you don't really lose your strokes and only lose a step or step and a half in movement. If the men completely quit tennis or are seriously injured or way overweght, the women would win easily. There are probably some who would be even with the women, too.
i love women's tennis but the top 5 women can't even beat their male hitting partners who are nobody, how can they handle the top male pros from the 80s?
Mac ON ANY surface.....robow is right in that the only way the women have a chance is with injury or conditioning being a factor. If any of these guys are ready to play, and injury-free, the question becomes borderline-aburd.
When you are in you 50, of course you are injury prone, that's part of the argument. No if and but.
Check out young Clijsters amazing point...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5v1dzy1UhqA
No male players at 50 could have play that point like Kim.
Check out Lendl at 50...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XM8OS1DfZh8&feature=related
His strokes has the power of an WTA player, and his movement cannot be compare to Clijsters pinky !
i think both camps are right because such a match up will never happen :)
robow7
05-03-2011, 08:47 PM
TMF, granted few women have moved as well as Kimmie, but on that particular point, I can tell you for sure that any male would have moved in and knocked off the volley twice in that point unlike Capriati. The serve is such a great equalizer for the male player, women never see the spin or pace that even an older player would generate.
1970CRBase
05-03-2011, 09:15 PM
What do you think? can the 80s stars (not late 80s teens like becker, chang or agassi but guys who started in the early 80s and were already in their mid 20s or older like wilander, mac, lendl, connors...) still beat the top WTA players like wozniacki or clijsters?
I know womens tennis can't be compared to mens tennis but those players are 50 now which is not exactly young:D.
who would win? A 50 yo former ATP pro or a 20 yo WTA star?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toBN8CdhFzc
Cash+Wilander vs Hingis+Kournikova.
Even if the women are not top WTA anymore, this vid part 1 thru 4 says it clearly what happens when men match up against women, even if the men are nearly 50.
oh yeah, and as somebody astutely pointed out, Pat was making a total jerk of himself. :/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toBN8CdhFzc
Cash+Wilander vs Hingis+Kournikova.
Even if the women are not top WTA anymore, this vid part 1 thru 4 says it clearly what happens when men match up against women, even if the men are nearly 50.
oh yeah, and as somebody astutely pointed out, Pat was making a total jerk of himself. :/
Pat will never lose that 'ability'
Datacipher
05-04-2011, 03:56 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toBN8CdhFzc
Cash+Wilander vs Hingis+Kournikova.
Even if the women are not top WTA anymore, this vid part 1 thru 4 says it clearly what happens when men match up against women, even if the men are nearly 50.
+1
...............
Datacipher
05-04-2011, 03:59 AM
Pat will never lose that 'ability'
+1 again.......LOL
I shudder to imagine Cash and Rusedski together......
Dream TEAM: Cash, Rusedski, Connors, Rios, Muster,
Datacipher
05-04-2011, 04:03 AM
When you are in you 50, of course you are injury prone, that's part of the argument. No if and but.
No. It really isn't. That's just absurd. I think the hypothetical question would have them free of injury. Aches and pains aside. Of course if Connors is hobbled by his hip he might get beaten. There are days when 12 yr old juniors I know could beat Federer or Agassi; just wait till they're bedridden. That kind of scenario is meaningless of course.
TMF, granted few women have moved as well as Kimmie, but on that particular point, I can tell you for sure that any male would have moved in and knocked off the volley twice in that point unlike Capriati. The serve is such a great equalizer for the male player, women never see the spin or pace that even an older player would generate.
Ugh, now you want to downtalk Clijsters's defensive prowess. I think the biggest challenge for an ex-player will be movement. If you're slow, stiff, overweight(like Lendl), that's a huge disadvantage.
Watching old Lendl serving in that Utube, I don't believe he's going to give Kim trouble. Sure, once in awhile he can throw a good punch, but for 3 sets? Nope
No. It really isn't. That's just absurd. I think the hypothetical question would have them free of injury. Aches and pains aside. Of course if Connors is hobbled by his hip he might get beaten. There are days when 12 yr old juniors I know could beat Federer or Agassi; just wait till they're bedridden. That kind of scenario is meaningless of course.
No. It really isn't. That's just absurd. I think the hypothetical question would have them free of injury. Aches and pains aside. Of course if Connors is hobbled by his hip he might get beaten. There are days when 12 yr old juniors I know could beat Federer or Agassi; just wait till they're bedridden. That kind of scenario is meaningless of course.
LOL...must you assign certain condition just to benefit those 80s players. Even "IF" the ex-player are injure free, other factors like fatigue, stamina come into play. Winning the 1st set is their best chance, but after that, it gets tougher. How well they can withstand for 3 hrs on court and sustain the same level of playing is a big question mark, which will be their achilles' heel.
Connors today cannot beat Clijsters. I don't care if you put them on the moon !
NLBwell
05-04-2011, 01:28 PM
Connors today cannot beat Clijsters. I don't care if you put them on the moon !
OK, but Connors has had hip replacement surgery. So older guys with hips replaced can't beat women pros.
McEnroe, who has never really quit playing and has kept in top shape will win easily.
Muster today, in good shape, would win. Muster a few years ago, fat and out of shape, would lose.
What's the point?
robow7
05-04-2011, 02:24 PM
Muster today, in good shape, would win. Muster a few years ago, fat and out of shape, would lose
If it's clay, I still put my money on a fat and out of shape Muster.
Not just Mac, but Cash,Edberg,Wilander, Noah,Gomez....may be if they played against a women´s doubles team....
dominikk1985
05-04-2011, 03:17 PM
If it's clay, I still put my money on a fat and out of shape Muster.
muster is 40 and still ranked no. 900 (after his quite pathetic "comeback"). of course he kills WTA players.
but I'm more talking about 50yo guys. 40 and 50 is a big difference.
Another topic which we will argue from kingdom come. :(
First thing, if Mac almost beat Roddick that essentially means he beats someone like Wozniacki without skipping a beat. He wouldn't be tired at all as he beats her a second set easily. Just an opinion.
Name one thing Carolyn does better than McEnroe. Is she stronger? Is she faster? Does she have a better serve? Is her forehand more powerful? What about the backhand?
If people disagree, fine. No one will ever know unless McEnroe plays her.
Tar Heel Tennis
05-04-2011, 06:15 PM
No. It really isn't. That's just absurd. I think the hypothetical question would have them free of injury. Aches and pains aside. Of course if Connors is hobbled by his hip he might get beaten. There are days when 12 yr old juniors I know could beat Federer or Agassi; just wait till they're bedridden. That kind of scenario is meaningless of course.
:-? excuse me?
NLBwell
05-04-2011, 08:14 PM
If it's clay, I still put my money on a fat and out of shape Muster.
I don't know man - from the picture I saw of Muster he looked REALLY fat!
My theory on why he is playing challengers is that was his motivation for his weight loss plan.
Maybe he can be a trainer next season on "The Biggest Loser."
goran_ace
05-04-2011, 08:34 PM
If we were betting I'd take a healthy/motivated (I know that's asking a lot) Venus or Serena over Mac, Wilander, or Borg. I don't think we should even consider Connors or Lendl in this scenario just because of the health/condition.
film1
05-04-2011, 08:36 PM
I think the top women today could beat most of them.
Datacipher
05-04-2011, 10:09 PM
OK, but Connors has had hip replacement surgery. So older guys with hips replaced can't beat women pros.
McEnroe, who has never really quit playing and has kept in top shape will win easily.
Muster today, in good shape, would win. Muster a few years ago, fat and out of shape, would lose.
What's the point?
Exactly. It becomes a ridiculous moot point. IF Connors is hobbled, then sure....
Of course one (well...err....a rational one ;-) assume that this scenario does not include acute or seriously handicapping injuries.
Reminds me of people who will joke answer things like "Gonzales can't beat X because....he's dead!!" Sadly...in this case the argument was meant seriously!
Datacipher
05-04-2011, 10:10 PM
:-? excuse me?
???? Um...ok? You're excused? :-)
:-? excuse me?
Haha. He will not explain it to you b/c it’s totally absurd. Even a 12 yrs old kid would never thought about beating Fed.
Question-Would a 52 year old Federer or Nadal beat Wozniacki at her current age?
Datacipher
05-05-2011, 01:43 PM
Haha. He will not explain it to you b/c it’s totally absurd. Even a 12 yrs old kid would never thought about beating Fed.
ROFL! OH! OK....so he is on your level and doesn't get it?? I didn't want to make that assumption!
Well....he's not being rude like you, so I would have explained it to him, but if he doesn't want that, there's no need: you'll always be clueless, and most others understand exactly what I wrote.
PS. Here's a clue, the absurdity IS THE POINT. There are days where a 12 yr old would win....and the point would be....
PPS. I like how the 12 yr old beating AGASSI doesn't matter to you though.....LOL!!!!
PPS. I like how the 12 yr old beating AGASSI doesn't matter to you though.....LOL!!!!
B/c in Tar Heel Tennis's post he only hightlighted Fed., that's why. And yes, he should highlighted AGASSI too, which is also absurd to believe a 12 yrs old kid can beat him. LOL !!!!
dominikk1985
05-09-2011, 02:55 PM
If we were betting I'd take a healthy/motivated (I know that's asking a lot) Venus or Serena over Mac, Wilander, or Borg. I don't think we should even consider Connors or Lendl in this scenario just because of the health/condition.
not so sure about the swedes but I doubt even the best woman of all time on her best day would be a challenge for 50 yo Mac.
mac is still amazingly fit and has competitive matches with former stars in their mid to late 30s (I think anyone would agree that a mid 30s former number 1 still double bagles a prime seles, justine, graf or serena on any day).
here is mac 2 years ago against courier. he stil serves very hard and is super fit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG9TaFC_Cfo
but with less fit guys like lendl that might be quite different.
not so sure about the swedes but I doubt even the best woman of all time on her best day would be a challenge for 50 yo Mac.
mac is still amazingly fit and has competitive matches with former stars in their mid to late 30s (I think anyone would agree that a mid 30s former number 1 still double bagles a prime seles, justine, graf or serena on any day).
here is mac 2 years ago against courier. he stil serves very hard and is super fit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG9TaFC_Cfo
but with less fit guys like lendl that might be quite different.
Possibly but you have to be fair and see how the guys would do if they are in shape. But I do agree McEnroe right now is better than any woman that has ever played tennis.
jrepac
05-09-2011, 05:16 PM
You mean the same man who almost beat Andy Roddick in WTT last summer. I might be willing to bet some money on it.
mac would rip right thru Wozniacki....if you think otherwise you are on crackie!
jrepac
05-09-2011, 05:20 PM
LOL...must you assign certain condition just to benefit those 80s players. Even "IF" the ex-player are injure free, other factors like fatigue, stamina come into play. Winning the 1st set is their best chance, but after that, it gets tougher. How well they can withstand for 3 hrs on court and sustain the same level of playing is a big question mark, which will be their achilles' heel.
Connors today cannot beat Clijsters. I don't care if you put them on the moon !
1 set, winner take all, Connors v. Clijsters? sorry, I'll take Jimmy on that one. Artificial hip and all, he'll outhit her and have her running all over the place. He'll be playing Team Tennis again this summer, so he must be feeling pretty good. Have not seen him hit recently, but he would not go out there and embarrass himself. Post-hip surgery, when he was coaching Roddick, he was striking the ball very, very well.
SusanDK
05-11-2011, 03:19 AM
He'll be playing Team Tennis again this summer, so he must be feeling pretty good.
That's great to hear. I hope someone manages to catch some video and post it.
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