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View Full Version : Volkl Sticks and Standard Volkl Grip Shape


TennisMaverick
05-11-2011, 03:59 PM
Many have difficulty with Volkl standard grips, especially while demoing, since the grip shape has an effect on the angle of the face of the racquet at contact. After purchase, you should customize your grip just as you customize the weight and balance. Every stick I've owned since 1970 has been customized, especially the grip.

Here is a new edited article from RSI Mag:

Handling Your Players: Often overlooked by players, the grip and handle are crucial to a racquet’s performance. Educate your customers on how important this area is to their game.
By Bob Patterson

The handle of a racquet is the only contact the player has with the racquet during play, yet it is often the most overlooked. Most players seem content to play with a grip or overgrip until it literally disintegrates. Most are totally surprised when they compare their worn-out grip to a fresh one.

As racquet technicians, we notice a severely worn grip when a racquet comes in for stringing and recommend a replacement for the customer. Often it ends there, but it shouldn’t. The grip and handle are crucial to the performance of the racquet, and both players and technicians should understand this.

Grips, like strings, should be treated as an integral part of the racquet that must be tuned to players’ specific needs in order to provide optimum performance every time he or she steps out on the court. I encourage technicians to add the grip and handle to their discussion with their customers to determine how that customer can best be served. Just like the strings, most players are using a grip just because it came on their racquet. That may be just fine, but they should at least try others to see if there is something that may work better for them.

Grips are available in such a wide variety and what works for one player may feel terrible to the next guy. You should stock an assortment of grips and have a display available for customers to grab and feel. Some will like a cushy, soft grip, while others will gravitate to the firmer feel of leather.

Some will prefer grooves while others will go for ridges. Unless you offer a variety, you may not only miss a sale, you may lose a client. That perfect string job won’t feel so perfect when the client is having trouble holding onto the racquet.

But don’t stop with the grip. The handle underneath the grip is just as important. Although almost all racquets come with an octagon-shaped handle, each manufacturer has a slightly different shape. Some even have a couple of different shapes within their own lines. Although all 4-3/8-inch grips should have a circumference of 4-3/8 inches, they certainly don’t feel the same. The difference in the bevels and angles of the octagon shape will change the feel in a player’s hand. Some players are more sensitive to this than others. The differences are very subtle, and subtle alterations may make the difference for most players.

There are other handle customizations that can be done using heat sleeves. Just think outside the box! A bump here, a groove there — no problem!

Giving your customers full service not only shows you have their enjoyment of the game in mind, but it also sets you apart from your competition and adds to your bottom line.

Rounding Out a Handle

Start with a clean handle:

Apply double-face tape along the face bevel on each side.
Apply the heat shrink sleeve as normal.
Trim to length as with a normal build-up.
Trim away the material along the length of the handle, leaving the face bevel material over the tape.
Wrap the grip.

Flaring the Butt Cap

Start with a clean handle:

Cut build-up sleeves to length. The quantity and length depends on your application. You will want them longer than desired, then trim to fit.
Heat shrink the small sleeves over the butt cap and allow each one to cool completely before applying the next one. Wait until all are in place before trimming.
Trim the sleeves at the top of the butt cap, or lower if you want a more pronounced effect.
Trim flush with the end of the butt cap.
Shrink a 1/16” size sleeve over the others and allow to cool.
Trim just above the top edge of the butt cap. A piece of finishing tape makes a good guide to ensure a smooth, straight cut. This sleeve needs to be longer than the others to lock the entire process in place.
Trim flush with butt cap.
Install the grip, making sure to keep the grip taught as you wrap around the butt cap and transition to the handle to ensure there are no wrinkles.


Bob Patterson , the founder of the RacquetMAXX customization service, is a Master Racquet Technician with more than 20 years of experience. He was RSI's Stringer of the Year in 2005.

Lefty78
05-11-2011, 04:19 PM
Nice post, and I couldn't agree more. When I had the pleasure to work at Bosworth, the first thing we tested with our clients was handle shape, before entertaining weight and balance specifications.

zapvor
05-11-2011, 06:09 PM
so why is Volkl quoted? doesnt this apply to every manufacturer?

TennisMaverick
05-11-2011, 06:36 PM
so why is Volkl quoted? doesnt this apply to every manufacturer?

You need to read the Volkl threads to find out.

vsbabolat
05-11-2011, 06:46 PM
so why is Volkl quoted? doesnt this apply to every manufacturer?

Because the OP is here to promoting the Voelkl line of racquets. A lot of people don't like the rectangular shape of the Voelkl frames. So this is a guide to rounding them out. Yes it applies to all racquets if that is something you are interested in doing. I have never had a problem with the Voelkl grip shape.

Boricua
05-11-2011, 07:21 PM
TM,from your experience, do many new Volkl users change the grip to a rounder one? Lets say, if you have 10 new users, how many will change it?

I hope to receive my rackets next week and Ill see to what group Ill be part of.:)

TennisMaverick
05-11-2011, 07:26 PM
TM,from your experience, do many new Volkl users change the grip to a rounder one? Lets say, if you have 10 new users, how many will change it?

I hope to receive my rackets next week and Ill see to what group Ill be part of.:)

From the posters on these threads: Almost Everyone....9/10!

Younger players don't mess with the grips; they like them. Most Volkl buyers in the USA are older, so they like rounder grips. My grips are 4 9/16, built from a 4 3/8 pallet with a Volkl tan leather grip.

Fedace
05-11-2011, 07:28 PM
Volkle grip handle has Biosensor in the middle ?? so It does not have traditional Pallet system ?? Is it a Mold over the biosensor ?? How is Volkle grip built ?

OldButGame
05-11-2011, 07:32 PM
I kinda like a more rectangular grip,..more extreme bevel feel to me,which i find preferable,.....but then,...I'm weird,..:neutral:

Boricua
05-11-2011, 07:43 PM
From the posters on these threads: Almost Everyone....9/10!

Younger players don't mess with the grips; they like them. Most Volkl buyers in the USA are older, so they like rounder grips. My grips are 4 9/16, built from a 4 3/8 pallet with a Volkl tan leather grip.

Ill let you know if I like it. I tend to be different or non conventional, so there is a chance Ill like it. :)

Timbo's hopeless slice
05-11-2011, 09:04 PM
My 11 year old loves the Volkl grip which he much prefers to the grip on my Dunlops or his brother's Heads.

I find it doesn't really bother me, but I have only used them in a small size (4 1/4)which kind of skewed the feel anyway

TennisMaverick
05-11-2011, 09:24 PM
My 11 year old loves the Volkl grip which he much prefers to the grip on my Dunlops or his brother's Heads.

I find it doesn't really bother me, but I have only used them in a small size (4 1/4)which kind of skewed the feel anyway

Yep...the kids like them.

eidolonshinobi
05-11-2011, 10:15 PM
Good stuff TM.

I'm only 23 and I can't stand the stock grip lol

hoosierbr
05-11-2011, 10:31 PM
To be honest I'm not sure why players freak out so much over the grip shape. I've used Dunlop, Wilson, Volkl, Babolat and Prince racquets over the years and they all have different grip shapes. Going from a more traditional shape like a Wilson to a more rounded Prince was quite a change but I got used to it. I never imagined I could get used to a Babolat grip but I did. Never thought I could effectively feel the bevels but somehow with enough practice I managed!

If the racquet works well for you then you'll get used to the grip shape. If you find yourself blaming the shape of the grip for the racquet not working for you then you've got bigger problems :)

parasailing
05-11-2011, 10:34 PM
When I first tested out the Organix 10 295, I didn't think much of the racquet until I removed the leather grip and put on Wilson Kgrip replacement grip which kinda rounded it out a bit and seems to have made a world of difference for me.

Pneumated1
05-12-2011, 07:05 AM
From the posters on these threads: Almost Everyone....9/10!

Younger players don't mess with the grips; they like them. Most Volkl buyers in the USA are older, so they like rounder grips. My grips are 4 9/16, built from a 4 3/8 pallet with a Volkl tan leather grip.

I guess I'm the 1/10. From what I understand the standard BB grip is a little less rectangular than Volkl, which would seem to be the case in my experience, between my current London and the C-10 Pro 08 that I hit last summer. I just decided, coming from Dunlop, to get used to the grip, and I'm fine with the Becker grip shape at this point. In fact, I'm hitting some of the best biting topspin shots that I've hit with this grip. On my backhand slice and volleys, I'm finding the continental bevel with ease, and on my slightly extreme grip on serves, it's never been better. Dare I say that this Becker grip shape is forcing me to find the "proper" grip for each shot with no room for compromise/cheating.

I may try your suggestion of 3 layers of athletic tape on the sides and 1 layer on top/bottom just to compare, but I'm happy as is.

To be honest I'm not sure why players freak out so much over the grip shape. I've used Dunlop, Wilson, Volkl, Babolat and Prince racquets over the years and they all have different grip shapes. Going from a more traditional shape like a Wilson to a more rounded Prince was quite a change but I got used to it. I never imagined I could get used to a Babolat grip but I did. Never thought I could effectively feel the bevels but somehow with enough practice I managed!

If the racquet works well for you then you'll get used to the grip shape. If you find yourself blaming the shape of the grip for the racquet not working for you then you've got bigger problems :)

I have to agree. I hit Dunlops for six years, a Wilson for one year, and now the Boris Becker for a few months, and I'm adjusted and totally satisfied. Maybe, just maybe, the Becker/Volkl grip shape is more suitable for me and my game to begin with---who knows.

rovision
05-12-2011, 08:42 AM
I guess I'm the 1/10.

Make that 2/10, at least. I don't have any issues with the original grip shape. As a plus, gives me more contact surface with the grip, and helps on some serves where I need less pronation (ad service side) where I simply hold the racket somewhere between continental and semi western and the ridges and grooves on the grip fall exactly right in my hand. Ball lends exactly or very near to the side line.
On the minus side, yes, the square grip can produce a "preferred" holding side, where the grooves match naturally your fingers. For myself, I can switch sides, without too much difference though.
And I fit the demographics above (the "majority", as described).

jk816
05-12-2011, 01:37 PM
Make that 2/10, at least. I don't have any issues with the original grip shape. As a plus, gives me more contact surface with the grip, and helps on some serves where I need less pronation (ad service side) where I simply hold the racket somewhere between continental and semi western and the ridges and grooves on the grip fall exactly right in my hand. Ball lends exactly or very near to the side line.
On the minus side, yes, the square grip can produce a "preferred" holding side, where the grooves match naturally your fingers. For myself, I can switch sides, without too much difference though.
And I fit the demographics above (the "majority", as described).

I like the stock Volkl grip as well. I feel like I get a bit more leverage; I've got big hands with long fingers and play with 4 5/8 grip, which I'll eventually build out a bit with overgrip as needed.

I had no problem switching over ofmr my previous racquets (Wilsons).

Jim

Rabbit
05-12-2011, 05:28 PM
Volkle grip handle has Biosensor in the middle ?? so It does not have traditional Pallet system ?? Is it a Mold over the biosensor ?? How is Volkle grip built ?

Negative. The pallets are connected directly to the hairpin. They do have traditional pallets.


Great thread, Tennis Maverick. I never had a problem with the Volkl shape, I never liked Head's shape, but Volkl was fine. I actually like the stock shape over their rounded one.

TennisMaverick
05-12-2011, 07:55 PM
I'm glad that there are Volkl users who are fine with the grip.

A short time ago, there was so much beatching, plus emails sent to me beatching that the grip shape was problematic, that I sent out an e-mail on behalf of the beactchers, and the response was not very sympathetic. From the answers above, that answer was correct, and in my opinion, the grip should be temporarily modified while demoing, just as the rest of the frame is frequently modified with lead tape while demoing.

TourTenor
05-13-2011, 08:41 AM
Add me to the list who prefers the Volkl grip shape.

Boricua
05-13-2011, 08:44 AM
Add me to the list who prefers the Volkl grip shape.

Hey, interesting quote, Mr. Perfect. Sounds kind of "socriatic".:)

zapvor
05-13-2011, 10:17 AM
I did not have any issued when hitting with a new PB10 mid. in fact i think i might prefer the grip...or maybe it was the racket

Pneumated1
05-13-2011, 10:32 AM
For anyone who's interested, I took Maverick's advice and tried 3 layers of athletic tape to the side bevels (widest) and one layer to the top and bottom bevels (narrow). I prefer leather, but to keep the weight to a minimum on the handle of my London, I wrapped a Babolat Skin Feel replacement grip tightly over the tape/pallet and covered it with a Wilson Pro overgrip.

The result is a noticeable difference; it feels like a Wilson. I'll hit my modifed handle side-by-side with my unmodified later today to determine which I prefer; but with minimal effort, and for those who want a more square/round grip shape, you should try this out.

Hominator
05-13-2011, 10:37 AM
For anyone who's interested, I took Maverick's advice and tried 3 layers of athletic tape to the side bevels (widest) and one layer to the top and bottom bevels (narrow). I prefer leather, but to keep the weight to a minimum on the handle of my London, I wrapped a Babolat Skin Feel replacement grip tightly over the tape/pallet and covered it with a Wilson Pro overgrip.

The result is a noticeable difference; it feels like a Wilson. I'll hit my modifed handle side-by-side with my unmodified later today to determine which I prefer, but with minimal effort, for those who want a more square/round grip shape should try this out.

..........

Fedace
05-13-2011, 05:22 PM
Negative. The pallets are connected directly to the hairpin. They do have traditional pallets.


Great thread, Tennis Maverick. I never had a problem with the Volkl shape, I never liked Head's shape, but Volkl was fine. I actually like the stock shape over their rounded one.

Agree, i hate the HEAD shape, can never find the edges and feel way too small. Thanks for the pallet info. so that means, this handle can be re-molded if desired. ?

Pneumated1
05-14-2011, 05:13 PM
For anyone who's interested, I took Maverick's advice and tried 3 layers of athletic tape to the side bevels (widest) and one layer to the top and bottom bevels (narrow). I prefer leather, but to keep the weight to a minimum on the handle of my London, I wrapped a Babolat Skin Feel replacement grip tightly over the tape/pallet and covered it with a Wilson Pro overgrip.

The result is a noticeable difference; it feels like a Wilson. I'll hit my modifed handle side-by-side with my unmodified later today to determine which I prefer; but with minimal effort, and for those who want a more square/round grip shape, you should try this out.

Just an update: the grip played like a Wilson grip with these mods. Strangely enough, although I hit with a SW grip on my forehand and an extreme Eastern, almost Western grip on my backhand, I found myself missing the bevel definition of the Becker pallet. I got used to my new "Wilson" clone by the end of a set, and I could transition to it with a small adjustment period, but I'll likely stick with the Becker/Volkl pallet.

I'll try out the square grip a little more as I have time in the future, just to make sure, as it's tough to draw definitive conclusions in one set of tennis.

TourTenor
05-16-2011, 04:58 PM
Hey, interesting quote, Mr. Perfect. Sounds kind of "socriatic".:)
Oh, yeah, Mr. Perfect here (I like the way that sounds) ... You are right, my not-so perfect quote does support another perspective. I think you will find many Volkl users who think the grip shape is very comfortable. I have used Volkl sticks for the past seven years after a long hiatus from tennis.

Agent Orynge
05-16-2011, 06:05 PM
Hey, interesting quote, Mr. Perfect. Sounds kind of "socriatic".:)

I was thinking more Dickinsonian.

"I'm Nobody! Who are you?
Are you – Nobody – too?"

TennisMaverick
06-30-2011, 06:47 PM
For anyone who's interested, I took Maverick's advice and tried 3 layers of athletic tape to the side bevels (widest) and one layer to the top and bottom bevels (narrow). I prefer leather, but to keep the weight to a minimum on the handle of my London, I wrapped a Babolat Skin Feel replacement grip tightly over the tape/pallet and covered it with a Wilson Pro overgrip.

The result is a noticeable difference; it feels like a Wilson. I'll hit my modifed handle side-by-side with my unmodified later today to determine which I prefer; but with minimal effort, and for those who want a more square/round grip shape, you should try this out.

Rarely does anyone who posts here plays with an unmodified racquet, yet almost everyone who posts here uses an unmodified grip???

Timbo's hopeless slice
06-30-2011, 06:48 PM
Maverick!!!!!

NBM
06-30-2011, 07:11 PM
I;d like to disagree.

i think most older players like the standard volkl shape. many of them have been using that grip shape for years and anything else feels weird to them. in fact, volkl has been fielding queries about making their grips less oblong for years now and didnt want to do it because so many volkl players loved the standard grip shape and they didnt want a rebellion. making the becker pallets less oblong was a good move

also, the standard volkl gripshape lends itself a lot more to a continental grip and younger players dont use that grip except on the serve and the volley (for the few who actually volley). older players tend to still use milder grips and tend to like the volkl grip shape more. a severe western grip just doesnt feel that great with a very rectangular grip to many

if you want to modify a volkl grip, by far the best way to do this is by building up beneath the pallet at the locations you need to accomplish what you want. in this manner, the bevels remain sharp..because nothing was put on top of the pallet other than the grip and overgrip just like stock...stick leather on there and you got it made in the shade.

i also dont think nearly as many people modify their grip shape as purported around here

mojo

mctennis
06-30-2011, 07:19 PM
Great to see you back again Mojo. I agree with you. I think the older players like the Volkl grip shape. I know I do. I've never had any issues with it and actually any other grip shapes feel odd to me. The Volkl grips feel more natural when I switch from forehand to backhand. I guess I get sort of tired of people complaining about the Volkl grip. Either adapt to it or change it but stop complaining about it. If you really don't like the shape of it don't use a Volkl racquet. Put it back up on the shelf and get yourself another boring Wilson racquet. Yawnnnnnnnnnnn.

TennisMaverick
07-01-2011, 02:16 PM
Most of my guys swear by the Volkl grips; it helps with spin, and Volkl isn't changing the shape. But I also believe that every hand, body, etc., is different, so every stick should be built to the player in all aspects.

TennisMaverick
07-01-2011, 02:25 PM
Maverick!!!!!

Hey! Have a great Fourth!

NBM
07-02-2011, 06:56 AM
Great to see you back again Mojo. I agree with you. I think the older players like the Volkl grip shape. I know I do. I've never had any issues with it and actually any other grip shapes feel odd to me. The Volkl grips feel more natural when I switch from forehand to backhand. I guess I get sort of tired of people complaining about the Volkl grip. Either adapt to it or change it but stop complaining about it. If you really don't like the shape of it don't use a Volkl racquet. Put it back up on the shelf and get yourself another boring Wilson racquet. Yawnnnnnnnnnnn.

hi..and thankyou. i agree w. you..way past old. personally, i feel as though a good tennis player can adapt to most any gripshape (including the volkl).

Pneumated1
07-02-2011, 02:11 PM
Rarely does anyone who posts here plays with an unmodified racquet, yet almost everyone who posts here uses an unmodified grip???

Welcome back!

Until I hit the X-10 295, I never realized how much more square the BB grip shape was compared to the Volkl. It's really not that far removed from the Dunlop that I'm more accustomed to and prefer. After hitting the Dunlop demo that I told you about, I would like to go to work a little on my Becker pallet and make it like that. No doubt.

ollinger
07-02-2011, 03:17 PM
I can't use the Volkl grip shape, might be stubborness of German engineers. My motorcycles have always been BMW and only in the past few years has BMW gotten away from things like using a turn-signal activator different from every other manufacturer. Always claimed their way was better, but now they're bowing to what the market prefers. Perhaps Volkl will eventually realize most people find their grip shap unuseable.

JackB1
07-02-2011, 03:36 PM
Welcome back!

Until I hit the X-10 295, I never realized how much more square the BB grip shape was compared to the Volkl. It's really not that far removed from the Dunlop that I'm more accustomed to and prefer. After hitting the Dunlop demo that I told you about, I would like to go to work a little on my Becker pallet and make it like that. No doubt.

Which Dunlop did u try? One of the Biomemetics?

You are right though...the Volkl handle shape is more rectangular than Becker and about the same as Head's. The Becker shape didn't bother me as much as the Volkl / Head's do....they are just too rectangular.

You can mod it yourself with tape or whatever, but if you don't want to add any more weight to a racquet's handle, you are stuck. The absolute best way to mod a Head or Volkl pallet is to remove the grip and the pallet and then build it up UNDER the pallet and then reattach pallets and grip.

JackB1
07-02-2011, 03:37 PM
I can't use the Volkl grip shape, might be stubborness of German engineers. My motorcycles have always been BMW and only in the past few years has BMW gotten away from things like using a turn-signal activator different from every other manufacturer. Always claimed their way was better, but now they're bowing to what the market prefers. Perhaps Volkl will eventually realize most people find their grip shap unuseable.

What would be even better is of they just gave you a choice of pallets with each racquet.

TennisMaverick
07-02-2011, 04:47 PM
What would be even better is of they just gave you a choice of pallets with each racquet.

I've had that discussion with them, and they really don't see the issue, especially since there are now three standard regular pallets which are interchangeable for all of the better player's frames. Some people like one or the other; some like them all. Personally, I don't like any grip that isn't my own, nor any stick that isn't adjusted to me. So if you adjust your stick, IMO, you should be consistent and adjust your grip. You can buy the Attiva, BB, and Volkl pallets at will, online, or thru your pro shop.

Pneumated1
07-05-2011, 10:34 AM
Which Dunlop did u try? One of the Biomemetics?

You are right though...the Volkl handle shape is more rectangular than Becker and about the same as Head's. The Becker shape didn't bother me as much as the Volkl / Head's do....they are just too rectangular.

You can mod it yourself with tape or whatever, but if you don't want to add any more weight to a racquet's handle, you are stuck. The absolute best way to mod a Head or Volkl pallet is to remove the grip and the pallet and then build it up UNDER the pallet and then reattach pallets and grip.

The regular Bio. 300. I hit the 300G for a little over four years, and this model is supposedly from the same mold, with a very similar beam size. It played much better than my old 300G, and I had a fit of nostalgia with the grip shape, the feel, and that old familiar head shape. What I would fear, however, is that while I loved what I was feeling and seeing from my end of the court, I doubt the the quality of my shots could compare to that created by my Londons.

JackB1
07-18-2011, 07:13 AM
Anyone know if the pallets on the new Organix sticks are also replaceable? I haven't tried one yet, but am afraid to because of the new vibration system running through the handle. I don't want to mess anything up. Anyone try taking apart an Organix handle yet?

sphinx780
07-18-2011, 09:03 AM
Hey TM or Pn-

Now you have me curious to take a rounded out grip for a test run. I know TM has listed in multiple places how to get the basic Wilson feel from the Volkl pallet and most likely from the BB pallet as well but I'm not finding it in a q&d search.

Here's my question: With the athletic tape, any differences taking a BB pallet to round it out for the basic wilson shape over the volkl or would you say the 3/1 setup is the same?

TennisMaverick
07-18-2011, 09:04 AM
Anyone know if the pallets on the new Organix sticks are also replaceable? I haven't tried one yet, but am afraid to because of the new vibration system running through the handle. I don't want to mess anything up. Anyone try taking apart an Organix handle yet?

They are replaceable. They have their own model#s because of the bio sensor in the but cap. You can use regular Attiva pallets on an X frame, without the bio sensor, using the Attiva pallet, or, you can use the Attiva pallet, and possibly force fit the bio sensor butt cap--I am investigating that for you right now.

TennisMaverick
07-18-2011, 09:07 AM
Hey TM or Pn-

Now you have me curious to take a rounded out grip for a test run. I know TM has listed in multiple places how to get the basic Wilson feel from the Volkl pallet and most likely from the BB pallet as well but I'm not finding it in a q&d search.

Here's my question: With the athletic tape, any differences taking a BB pallet to round it out for the basic wilson shape over the volkl or would you say the 3/1 setup is the same?

BB pallets are easy: 4 layers of athletic tape from any trainer, on the left and right sides of the pallet. I just did it to my London Tour. Volkl pallets, are another deal, and require more modeling and craftsmanship. But if you ask anyone who has bought one of my sticks, they think that the grips were molded, and not tape modified. It takes a little work, and you have to build from a pallet two sizes smaller, so I order 3/8s, to build to a 5/8s-(my grips are closer to 4 9/16s)

sphinx780
07-18-2011, 09:12 AM
Much appreciated TM, thanks for repeating the info for me!

TennisMaverick
07-18-2011, 09:13 AM
Jack....the X-Attiva pallets with bio sensor butt caps used on the X6s, are actually regular Attiva pallets with bio sensor butt caps. So if I hook-you-up with Attiva pallets, you just swap the pallets, but use the bio sensor butt cap which came with the frame. It's that easy.

Also, I received your email with the grip system photo. The yellow stem which goes through the handle is not part of the bio sensor butt. The bio sensor is like a button with a stem, which fits into the rest of the internal grip system, so there are no worries if you swap pallets but use the original bio sensor butt cap.

Pneumated1
07-18-2011, 09:46 AM
BB pallets are easy: 4 layers of athletic tape from any trainer, on the left and right sides of the pallet. I just did it to my London Tour. Volkl pallets, are another deal, and require more modeling and craftsmanship. But if you ask anyone who has bought one of my sticks, they think that the grips were molded, and not tape modified. It takes a little work, and you have to build from a pallet two sizes smaller, so I order 3/8s, to build to a 5/8s-(my grips are closer to 4 9/16s)

Not that Maverick needs validation, but I can attest to the effectiveness of multiple layers on the sides of the Becker pallet. It works.

Concerning the Volkl, that was the one thing that I couldn't get used to on the X-295----the grip shape. It would seriously take some craftsmanship for me to feel comfortable with it. I felt like the top/bottom would need some widening, somehow, almost as if you'd need to build up/out the top/bottom and contiguous bevels all at once, then work the sides. Or would you deal with the bevels as you built the sides? I know how craftsmen are about revealing their secret formulas, so if you choose to defer, I understand fully.:)

TennisMaverick
07-18-2011, 09:57 AM
Not that Maverick needs validation, but I can attest to the effectiveness of multiple layers on the sides of the Becker pallet. It works.

Concerning the Volkl, that was the one thing that I couldn't get used to on the X-295----the grip shape. It would seriously take some craftsmanship for me to feel comfortable with it. I felt like the top/bottom would need some widening, somehow, almost as if you'd need to build up/out the top/bottom and contiguous bevels all at once, then work the sides. Or would you deal with the bevels as you built the sides? I know how craftsmen are about revealing their secret formulas, so if you choose to defer, I understand fully.:)

I'll put it up later today.....I developed this modeling technique on tour, when only Lendl had Bosworth, and no one else did these things but an handful of old-timers who were real craftsman with balsa wood on wood racquets, or they sanded down larger grips to fit, as all grips were made of molded foam, or made from pieces of molded foam, glued onto the hairpin, so you could combine/add material.

You can get athletic tape at any event, and trainers were OK chucking you some used rolls, but in the late 70's/early '80s, finding a retail outlet which sold Johnson & Johnson, was almost impossible outside of NY, so at a tourney, without the trainers, you were screwed, and smaller events, had no trainer! I used to go to the local HS or college and walk on the field, intro myself as a tennis player, and ask the trainer for charity. That was the only thing that we could do when on the road when having the racquet company send fresh new sticks to the tourney hotel, whenever yours were broken, stolen by another player--yes, it happens and more so in the juniors--or dead, which was about 3 months per stick BITD!

NBM
07-18-2011, 10:17 AM
Not that Maverick needs validation, but I can attest to the effectiveness of multiple layers on the sides of the Becker pallet. It works.

Concerning the Volkl, that was the one thing that I couldn't get used to on the X-295----the grip shape. It would seriously take some craftsmanship for me to feel comfortable with it. I felt like the top/bottom would need some widening, somehow, almost as if you'd need to build up/out the top/bottom and contiguous bevels all at once, then work the sides. Or would you deal with the bevels as you built the sides? I know how craftsmen are about revealing their secret formulas, so if you choose to defer, I understand fully.:)

all you need do is build up beneath the pallet...only on the two sides..this widens the top and bottom which is what you want. makes the grip more square..perfectly preserves the bevels. if you arent radically reshaping the grip, start w. a pallet one size smaller. takes about 10 mins once you do it the first time.

TennisMaverick
07-18-2011, 10:22 AM
all you need do is build up beneath the pallet...only on the two sides..this widens the top and bottom which is what you want. makes the grip more square..perfectly preserves the bevels. if you arent radically reshaping the grip, start w. a pallet one size smaller. takes about 10 mins once you do it the first time.

That makes the top/bottom wider, without widening the bevels. Do you like that shape? Personally, I prefer the bevels to be almost as wide as the top/bottom, usually about 1 mm thinner.

JackB1
07-18-2011, 11:01 AM
Jack....the X-Attiva pallets with bio sensor butt caps used on the X6s, are actually regular Attiva pallets with bio sensor butt caps. So if I hook-you-up with Attiva pallets, you just swap the pallets, but use the bio sensor butt cap which came with the frame. It's that easy.


So if I swap the pallets and keep the orig. buttcap, it won't ruin the intergrety of the whole Bio-sensor system?
If so, that's great to hear. I'll respond to you via email about the pallets.

I didn't know the X6's had Attiva pallets!

JackB1
07-18-2011, 11:08 AM
That makes the top/bottom wider, without widening the bevels. Do you like that shape? Personally, I prefer the bevels to be almost as wide as the top/bottom, usually about 1 mm thinner.

I think what NBM is suggesting is basically the same procedure, but to use the build up tape UNDER the pallet instead of over it. This way the edges of the bevels remain sharp and aren't slightly rounded by the edges of the tape. One time I did this with a Head racquet and it worked great. I used some light balsa wood coffee stirrer sticks I got at my local 7-11 store and glued them to the handle under the pallets along where the widest side bevels are. I then reattached the pallets on top of them and them the grip and overgrip. The result was great.

Pneumated1
07-18-2011, 12:27 PM
I'll put it up later today.....

Whenever you get a chance; don't sweat it.

all you need do is build up beneath the pallet...only on the two sides..this widens the top and bottom which is what you want. makes the grip more square..perfectly preserves the bevels. if you arent radically reshaping the grip, start w. a pallet one size smaller. takes about 10 mins once you do it the first time.

That makes the top/bottom wider, without widening the bevels. Do you like that shape? Personally, I prefer the bevels to be almost as wide as the top/bottom, usually about 1 mm thinner.

I love the Dunlop pallet shape. It's definitely wider across the top and bottom, but the bevels seem to be very shallow, unlike Volkl. Although, I'm not sure how wide/narrow they are. Whenever I get around to doing it, I'm gonna put 3-4 layers of tape on the sides, which on my London will make the top/bottom wider and the bevels more shallow. However, I would like to replicate the Dunlop shape as closely as possible, so I'm not sure what else would be needed. I'm assuming that as you start widening the sides, you reach a point where some height is needed on the top/bottom/bevels to keep things proportional.

TennisMaverick
07-18-2011, 12:37 PM
Whenever you get a chance; don't sweat it.





I love the Dunlop pallet shape. It's definitely wider across the top and bottom, but the bevels seem to be very shallow, unlike Volkl. Although, I'm not sure how wide/narrow they are. Whenever I get around to doing it, I'm gonna put 3-4 layers of tape on the sides, which on my London will make the top/bottom wider and the bevels more shallow. However, I would like to replicate the Dunlop shape as closely as possible, so I'm not sure what else would be needed. I'm assuming that as you start widening the sides, you reach a point where some height is needed on the top/bottom/bevels to keep things proportional.

Four layers of athletic tape is not real thick, but it makes a difference.

It's been three years since I hit with a graphite Dunlop, but I've hit with my Maxply recently, an its grip is really round. The top/bottom is barely wider than the bevels, and the sides are not terribly wider than the top/bottom. That's sort of the shape that I prefer, although I like the sides just a tad wider.

You forgot: Why would anyone post on a tennis forum if they didn't play tennis?

Pneumated1
07-18-2011, 01:00 PM
Four layers of athletic tape is not real thick, but it makes a difference.

It's been three years since I hit with a graphite Dunlop, but I've hit with my Maxply recently, an its grip is really round. The top/bottom is barely wider than the bevels, and the sides are not terribly wider than the top/bottom. That's sort of the shape that I prefer, although I like the sides just a tad wider.

You forgot: Why would anyone post on a tennis forum if they didn't play tennis?

The Dunlop Bio 300 is very round as well, and it felt perfect to me. I drive the ball much better with that shape, for whatever reason, but can also hit with plenty of spin. I'm definitely going to try to replicate that shape on my London.

And yeah, I did forget, didn't I? I guess for the same reason that a tennis player would join the debate team or join an apologetics forum----if you get my meaning.;) But that would just be my stab at the wind.

TennisMaverick
07-18-2011, 01:08 PM
The Dunlop Bio 300 is very round as well, and it felt perfect to me. I drive the ball much better with that shape, for whatever reason, but can also hit with plenty of spin. I'm definitely going to try to replicate that shape on my London.

And yeah, I did forget, didn't I? I guess for the same reason that a tennis player would join the debate team or join an apologetics forum----if you get my meaning.;) But that would just be my stab at the wind.

One thing that you could do is what NBM said, then add to the top/bottom/sides, which will keep it wider and rounder, but will also widen the bevels and keep the edges sharp.

Tennis players are for the most part, are intellectual and friendly. I guess we're good to converse with.

Leaf1569
07-18-2011, 03:15 PM
Jack....the X-Attiva pallets with bio sensor butt caps used on the X6s, are actually regular Attiva pallets with bio sensor butt caps. So if I hook-you-up with Attiva pallets, you just swap the pallets, but use the bio sensor butt cap which came with the frame. It's that easy.


Just curious, how much are these X-Attiva pallets? I may be interested in getting a set for my volkl.

Agent Orynge
07-18-2011, 03:37 PM
The Dunlop Bio 300 is very round as well, and it felt perfect to me. I drive the ball much better with that shape, for whatever reason, but can also hit with plenty of spin. I'm definitely going to try to replicate that shape on my London.

And yeah, I did forget, didn't I? I guess for the same reason that a tennis player would go on the internet.;) But that would just be my stab at the wind.

Fixed.

One thing that you could do is what NBM said, then add to the top/bottom/sides, which will keep it wider and rounder, but will also widen the bevels and keep the edges sharp.

Tennis players are for the most part, are intellectual and friendly. I guess we're good to converse with.

Oh, the irony.

It takes a lot to make me laugh. Thanks!

Pneumated1
07-18-2011, 03:59 PM
One thing that you could do is what NBM said, then add to the top/bottom/sides, which will keep it wider and rounder, but will also widen the bevels and keep the edges sharp.

Okay, but I'll have to figure out exactly what it is I want by working on top of the pallet before I remove it and work under it. I've never attempted to remove a pallet. Even with reshaping, will it snap back together, or how manipulative is this going to be? Hopefully, I'll like what I do on top.

Tennis players are for the most part, are intellectual and friendly. I guess we're good to converse with.

I agree. Of course, some people could use a tennis forum to refine their debate, argument, and rhetoric skills, using tennis as a contact point to engage others, even if tennis is at best a light-hearted hobby.

Agent Orynge
07-18-2011, 04:02 PM
I agree. Of course, some people could use a tennis forum to refine their debate, argument, and rhetoric skills, using tennis as a contact point to engage others, even if tennis is at best a light-hearted hobby.

I love tennis. I love to 'engage others.' Can you think of a better - or more appropriate - place to do both? If you say no, then I don't think you thoroughly understand the internet.

I suppose you might consider my proclivities a bad thing, but in order for that to really be the case a certain party would have to be less than civil. Wherever might I find a person like that?

OldButGame
07-18-2011, 04:19 PM
I love tennis. I love to 'engage others.' Can you think of a better - or more appropriate - place to do both? If you say no, then I don't think you thoroughly understand the internet.

I suppose you might consider my proclivities a bad thing, but in order for that to really be the case a certain party would have to be less than civil. Wherever might I find a person like that?

"Oh, the irony.

It takes a lot to make me laugh. Thanks!"



:wink:

TennisMaverick
07-18-2011, 04:26 PM
Okay, but I'll have to figure out exactly what it is I want by working on top of the pallet before I remove it and work under it. I've never attempted to remove a pallet. Even with reshaping, will it snap back together, or how manipulative is this going to be? Hopefully, I'll like what I do on top.



I agree. Of course, some people could use a tennis forum to refine their debate, argument, and rhetoric skills, using tennis as a contact point to engage others, even if tennis is at best a light-hearted hobby.

The pallets come off easily with a 3-4 inch straight edge, like a wide putty knife for plaster--you're working on the house so u know what I am referring to. Heat-up the pallets with a hair dryer, and carefully split them apart with the edge of whatever tool you use from the double side adhesive tape inside. Then add two strips of athletic tape on each side, and cover with double-sided adhesive tape. Replace the pallets. Now there will be a gap between the halves. Glue or re-staple, or both, the butt cap. If you like the way it feels, like NBM, re-grip, and you're good to go. If you prefer wider bevels, add a layer of tape on the bottom/sides/top, re-grip and test. Do it again if the bevels still aren't wide enough.

I will paste my mods for making a standard Volkl grip 3/8 into a 5/8 rounder grip soon.

Pneumated1
07-18-2011, 04:30 PM
I love tennis. I love to 'engage others.' Can you think of a better - or more appropriate - place to do both? If you say no, then I don't think you thoroughly understand the internet.

I suppose you might consider my proclivities a bad thing, but in order for that to really be the case a certain party would have to be less than civil. Wherever might I find a person like that?

I love tennis as well . . . and engaging others, so yes, I agree that this forum is most ideal. As far as your "proclivities," I haven't given it much thought, although the way you "barged" into the London thread I created, quite provocatively I might add, does flavor my opinion a bit, but we cleared the air on that one, I thought. I was just answering Maverick's question at face value: "Why would someone who doesn't play tennis post on a tennis forum?" If you play tennis, then my assessment doesn't apply to you.

Agent Orynge
07-18-2011, 05:19 PM
"Oh, the irony.

It takes a lot to make me laugh. Thanks!"



:wink:

Are we starting a new internet meme?

TennisMaverick
07-18-2011, 05:21 PM
Not that Maverick needs validation, but I can attest to the effectiveness of multiple layers on the sides of the Becker pallet. It works.

Concerning the Volkl, that was the one thing that I couldn't get used to on the X-295----the grip shape. It would seriously take some craftsmanship for me to feel comfortable with it. I felt like the top/bottom would need some widening, somehow, almost as if you'd need to build up/out the top/bottom and contiguous bevels all at once, then work the sides. Or would you deal with the bevels as you built the sides? I know how craftsmen are about revealing their secret formulas, so if you choose to defer, I understand fully.:)

Make sure to burnish each layer hard with a straight edge, so that when you get through, all edges will be sharp. After wrapping with a leather grip, and playing with it once or twice, he tape will harden, as though it was molded on. You can also saturate with paint, shellac, or varnish if you want it hard and sealed.

Using Johnson & Johnson Standard Athletic Tape(SPECIFICALLY). The numbers to the left are layer quantity.

In this order:

2- Side Flat
1- Full Wrap
1- Side Flat
1- Top Flat
1- Full Wrap
1- 1 2/3- Side/Bevel
1- 1 1/3- Side/Bevel

Agent Orynge
07-18-2011, 05:22 PM
I love tennis as well . . . and engaging others, so yes, I agree that this forum is most ideal. As far as your "proclivities," I haven't given it much thought, although the way you "barged" into the London thread I created, quite provocatively I might add, does flavor my opinion a bit, but we cleared the air on that one, I thought. I was just answering Maverick's question at face value: "Why would someone who doesn't play tennis post on a tennis forum?" If you play tennis, then my assessment doesn't apply to you.

We cleared the air because I apologized, and I apologized because I was being asinine - and you weren't. If only everyone here was as easy to get along with as you...

There's only one person here who has a long-standing (and unfounded) belief that I don't actually play tennis. Pay him no mind.

TennisMaverick
07-18-2011, 05:24 PM
[/B][/I]

"Oh, the irony.

It takes a lot to make me laugh. Thanks!"



:wink:

Me too! Over 50 energy levels!

OldButGame
07-18-2011, 05:26 PM
OK...now that depressed me again...:(... lol


(in todays heat...close to 100,....i REALLY felt old !!!!!)

Pneumated1
07-18-2011, 05:46 PM
Make sure to burnish each layer hard with a straight edge, so that when you get through, all edges will be sharp. After wrapping with a leather grip, and playing with it once or twice, he tape will harden, as though it was molded on. You can also saturate with paint, shellac, or varnish if you want it hard and sealed.

Using Johnson & Johnson Standard Athletic Tape(SPECIFICALLY). The numbers to the left are layer quantity.

In this order:

2- Side Flat
1- Full Wrap
1- Side Flat
1- Top Flat
1- Full Wrap
1- 1 2/3- Side/Bevel
1- 1 1/3- Side/Bevel

Wow! You should do an online tutorial entitled, "How to Mummify Your Pallet."

Thanks for the tips. I do have a question, though, and maybe I'm just overlooking something, but why do you cover 2/3 of one bevel and 1/3 of another?

And just to clarify, these are Maverick's mods for a Volkl pallet, not a BB. The BB would, I assume, be a little different in achieving the same end goal.

Pneumated1
07-18-2011, 06:03 PM
We cleared the air because I apologized, and I apologized because I was being asinine - and you weren't. If only everyone here was as easy to get along with as you...

There's only one person here who has a long-standing (and unfounded) belief that I don't actually play tennis. Pay him no mind.

I knew you were just trying to make a splash, so the apology was appreciated and easy to accept. Honesty and forgiveness will overcome any barrier and strife. When you've been shown grace, it's easier to give it; I would know.

Maverick's a good guy; I think you'll see that in time. You choose to see Maverick's Talk Tennis persona, whereas others of us have come to see something a little different. Upper-echelon tennis makes you hard, but I would venture that this forum is Maverick's own "contact point" for something a little easier----dare I say----"softer."

TennisMaverick
07-18-2011, 06:08 PM
Wow! You should do an online tutorial entitled, "How to Mummify Your Pallet."

Thanks for the tips. I do have a question, though, and maybe I'm just overlooking something, but why do you cover 2/3 of one bevel and 1/3 of another?

And just to clarify, these are Maverick's mods for a Volkl pallet, not a BB. The BB would, I assume, be a little different in achieving the same end goal.

I mean that you cover 1 2/3s of the combined side+two bevels, centered, and then 1 1/3 of the combined side+two bevels, centered. I usually run 125 grit sandpaper over the bevels to smooth out the two layers. That also sharpens-up all edges. My bad for not explaining in full!

JackB1
07-18-2011, 08:34 PM
Jack....the X-Attiva pallets with bio sensor butt caps used on the X6s, are actually regular Attiva pallets with bio sensor butt caps. So if I hook-you-up with Attiva pallets, you just swap the pallets, but use the bio sensor butt cap which came with the frame. It's that easy.

Also, I received your email with the grip system photo. The yellow stem which goes through the handle is not part of the bio sensor butt. The bio sensor is like a button with a stem, which fits into the rest of the internal grip system, so there are no worries if you swap pallets but use the original bio sensor butt cap.

Sounds good! Now all I need is the pallets :)

I am willing to give this a shot and report back to everyone, since it appears noone has tried a pallet swap with the Organix yet.

Pneumated1
07-19-2011, 06:26 AM
I mean that you cover 1 2/3s of the combined side+two bevels, centered, and then 1 1/3 of the combined side+two bevels, centered. I usually run 125 grit sandpaper over the bevels to smooth out the two layers. That also sharpens-up all edges. My bad for not explaining in full!

No problem! It's crystal clear now. I was actually considering something similar on my London pallet. What if I centered my tape on the sides and covered the bevels? I would do this for both bevels on each side, with the "seam" in the middle of each side. Four layers would definitely give more width and also increase the length of the bevels, if I'm thinking straight. The only danger would be rounding/flattening out the top/bottom a little bit too much, but a layer or two in this location would correct this problem.

What do you think? I haven't had time yet to experiment, but if I had a plan in mind before starting, it would simplify the process.

JackB1
07-19-2011, 06:55 AM
No problem! It's crystal clear now. I was actually considering something similar on my London pallet. What if I centered my tape on the sides and covered the bevels? I would do this for both bevels on each side, with the "seam" in the middle of each side. Four layers would definitely give more width and also increase the length of the bevels, if I'm thinking straight. The only danger would be rounding/flattening out the top/bottom a little bit too much, but a layer or two in this location would correct this problem.

What do you think? I haven't had time yet to experiment, but if I had a plan in mind before starting, it would simplify the process.

Wow. I had no idea how involved this process was :) I just put 3-4 layers of tape along the wide bevels and put my grip and overgrip over it. I tried to be careful to not go past the edge of the bevels to preserve the edges and it worked fine for me. I just didn't want to add any weight to my X8. I know the tape probably only adds 4-5 grams, but I'm weird that way :)

p.s. Pneumy, I mailed out your strings today.

Pneumated1
07-19-2011, 10:32 AM
Wow. I had no idea how involved this process was :) I just put 3-4 layers of tape along the wide bevels and put my grip and overgrip over it. I tried to be careful to not go past the edge of the bevels to preserve the edges and it worked fine for me. I just didn't want to add any weight to my X8. I know the tape probably only adds 4-5 grams, but I'm weird that way :)

p.s. Pneumy, I mailed out your strings today.

Yeah, I think I'm in over my head. My plan is to replicate the Dunlop shape if possible, but we'll see, once I actually start experimenting.

Looking forward to the strings, as I've read good things about Mantis Synthetics. Thanks.

JackB1
07-19-2011, 11:43 AM
Yeah, I think I'm in over my head. My plan is to replicate the Dunlop shape if possible, but we'll see, once I actually start experimenting.

Looking forward to the strings, as I've read good things about Mantis Synthetics. Thanks.

I'm with you. Mav is like a mad scientist with his sandpapers and
tape wraps :) I'm going to take the easy way out and just switch the
pallets on my Volkls.

If your criteria is soft and low powered, Mantis Comfort Syn is the answer.
They also are super easy to string. Just ask "PVAudio"...he loves em.

TennisMaverick
07-19-2011, 03:28 PM
I'm with you. Mav is like a mad scientist with his sandpapers and
tape wraps :) I'm going to take the easy way out and just switch the
pallets on my Volkls.

If your criteria is soft and low powered, Mantis Comfort Syn is the answer.
They also are super easy to string. Just ask "PVAudio"...he loves em.

This was originally done as an "on the road" procedure. It also allows for on-court modifications when using leather grips, which when even using Fairway, have thickness quality control issues, so two newly gripped frames can feel different. I've actually added a layer of Scotch tape on a side or top, to make the grip feel perfect in my hand. I have a mold for my grip shape, but I haven't used it for years. It's just easier for me to modify with tape while I'm watching TV, siting in an airport, or on a break on-court.

TennisMaverick
07-19-2011, 03:48 PM
No problem! It's crystal clear now. I was actually considering something similar on my London pallet. What if I centered my tape on the sides and covered the bevels? I would do this for both bevels on each side, with the "seam" in the middle of each side. Four layers would definitely give more width and also increase the length of the bevels, if I'm thinking straight. The only danger would be rounding/flattening out the top/bottom a little bit too much, but a layer or two in this location would correct this problem.

What do you think? I haven't had time yet to experiment, but if I had a plan in mind before starting, it would simplify the process.

From what I understand, you want to put 4 layers on the left and right sides, plus the bevels, without any tape on top? That will definitely make the top and bottom much wider, if that is what you want. That is the reason why with my mods described above, the last two layers do not go all the way up to the top/bottom-bevel edges.

If you really want that almost symmetrical octagon that Dunlop grips have, then NBM's suggestion would require less modeling. You would just add the needed layers on the sides of the hairpin under the pallet, squeeze back on, fit the butt cap without making it permanent, re-grip, and see how it feels. If you need the bevels to be wider, then simply add layers of tape on the top/bottom/sides.

Sniffffffff....

TennisMaverick
07-19-2011, 03:58 PM
Wow. I had no idea how involved this process was :) I just put 3-4 layers of tape along the wide bevels and put my grip and overgrip over it. I tried to be careful to not go past the edge of the bevels to preserve the edges and it worked fine for me. I just didn't want to add any weight to my X8. I know the tape probably only adds 4-5 grams, but I'm weird that way :)

p.s. Pneumy, I mailed out your strings today.

My original "4 layers of tape" on the sides, was specifically for the regular BB pallet. There are numerous types of pallets for both lines, but few if any posters here use any sticks which aren't regular or S-pallets(Attiva).

My taped mods do add weight to the stick, but that is also part of my overall mods towards my now 396 gram--just added a gram plus--PB 10 Mid.

Pneumated1
07-19-2011, 05:49 PM
If you really want that almost symmetrical octagon that Dunlop grips have, then NBM's suggestion would require less modeling. You would just add the needed layers on the sides of the hairpin under the pallet, squeeze back on, fit the butt cap without making it permanent, re-grip, and see how it feels. If you need the bevels to be wider, then simply add layers of tape on the top/bottom/sides.

That's what I needed to know: that Dunlops are actually more octagonal than square---thanks! Okay, so I measured the pallet width at the sides: 11/16"; the top/bottom is 9/16". I'll simply add an 1/8" (however many layers that works out to be) on the sides for extra width for top/bottom. I guess the only issue then, is making sure that the bevels are close to 11/16" when I'm done. On the bare pallet they measure 7/16", which is a 1/4" less than the finished sides/top/bottom. If it comes up a little shy, I'll regrip and see how it works. If they need to be wider, I'll add to the top/bottom of the hairpin first, then maybe an additional layer or two to the sides.

I've never done it, but I have the pallets off successfully and am sitting here looking at the hairpin. Unfortunately, I don't have a staple gun, glue gun, or double sided tape, but I can completely modify the grip tonight and finish the assembly tomorrow night when I have the tools.

Sniffffffff....

Speaking of smells, have you ever eaten Kimchi? I shared lunch with one of the Koreans whom I tutor today, and I tried it for the first time. The smell is almost unbearable for an unconditioned American. I loved the spice, but I've never been a big cabbage eater---not even Southeastern Cabbage/Corned Beef/Cornbread---much less cold/pickled cabbage.

Get you some Kimchi take out; you will smell nothing else!

TennisMaverick
07-19-2011, 06:20 PM
That's what I needed to know: that Dunlops are actually more octagonal than square---thanks! Okay, so I measured the pallet width at the sides: 11/16"; the top/bottom is 9/16". I'll simply add an 1/8" (however many layers that works out to be) on the sides for extra width for top/bottom. I guess the only issue then, is making sure that the bevels are close to 11/16" when I'm done. On the bare pallet they measure 7/16", which is a 1/4" less than the finished sides/top/bottom. If it comes up a little shy, I'll regrip and see how it works. If they need to be wider, I'll add to the top/bottom of the hairpin first, then maybe an additional layer or two to the sides.

I've never done it, but I have the pallets off successfully and am sitting here looking at the hairpin. Unfortunately, I don't have a staple gun, glue gun, or double sided tape, but I can completely modify the grip tonight and finish the assembly tomorrow night when I have the tools.



Speaking of smells, have you ever eaten Kimchi? I shared lunch with one of the Koreans whom I tutor today, and I tried it for the first time. The smell is almost unbearable for an unconditioned American. I loved the spice, but I've never been a big cabbage eater---not even Southeastern Cabbage/Corned Beef/Cornbread---much less cold/pickled cabbage.

Get you some Kimchi take out; you will smell nothing else!

South Korean Kim Chi is a little tough. As an American, you could probably handle the milder Chinese version, although Kimchi was originally Chinese, pao cai, where the "c" is pronounced like a "ts", which is pickled cabbage. It's like white Kimchi. But Kimchi is 5,000 year old food and really healthy and much better than cold slaw in the summer with e coli running around!

JackB1
07-19-2011, 06:42 PM
If anyone likes Volkl but not the gripshape, you really should try out the Attiva pallets. Makes the gripshape like a Wilson and they are easy to swap out yourself. If anyone wants more info on them, just email me through. my profile.

And for anyone who's curious, the Organix pallets are just as easy to swap as the previous one's. I just replaced the 3/8 pallet on my Organix 8 with a 1/2 from a older Volkl and it worked perfectly. The Bio Sensor system stays inside the pallet and when you replace the Organix buttcap, the "stem" just slides into place. Piece of cake? I also replaced another 3/8 with a Becker 1/2 pallet I had lying around and that fit also. Had to trim the length just a bit, but it fit perfectly and I can't really tell them apart once I have overgrips on.

Pneumated1
07-19-2011, 06:50 PM
South Korean Kim Chi is a little tough. As an American, you could probably handle the milder Chinese version, although Kimchi was originally Chinese, pao cai, where the "c" is pronounced like a "ts", which is pickled cabbage. It's like white Kimchi. But Kimchi is 5,000 year old food and really healthy and much better than cold slaw in the summer with e coli running around!

It's the only Asian food to date that I can honestly say that I would have to acquire a taste for, but only because I don't really like pickled cabbage. However, from what I understand, there are many ways to make it (fish sauces, meats, spices, etc.), so I could find a way to like it. No doubt it's healthy!

Back to the grip shape: It took 4 layers of athletic tape on the sides of the hairpin to create a square pallet. The bevels are smaller, obviously, and I'd like to see how it would feel with larger ones, but I'm at my limit on my grip size. I'm assuming that the only way to get the bevels larger at this point would be to work on top of the pallet. Is that the case? If so, I'd need smaller pallets. The grip feels amazing as is, but I think it could feel better if completely octagonal. I think what I have is more of a Wilson feel at this point.

But I'm amazed at how simple this is. Now that I've stripped all the lead off of my sticks and don't have that to worry about, I guess I'll become OC about my grip shape now.:)

TennisMaverick
07-19-2011, 07:24 PM
It's the only Asian food to date that I can honestly say that I would have to acquire a taste for, but only because I don't really like pickled cabbage. However, from what I understand, there are many ways to make it (fish sauces, meats, spices, etc.), so I could find a way to like it. No doubt it's healthy!

Back to the grip shape: It took 4 layers of athletic tape on the sides of the hairpin to create a square pallet. The bevels are smaller, obviously, and I'd like to see how it would feel with larger ones, but I'm at my limit on my grip size. I'm assuming that the only way to get the bevels larger at this point would be to work on top of the pallet. Is that the case? If so, I'd need smaller pallets. The grip feels amazing as is, but I think it could feel better if completely octagonal. I think what I have is more of a Wilson feel at this point.

But I'm amazed at how simple this is. Now that I've stripped all the lead off of my sticks and don't have that to worry about, I guess I'll become OC about my grip shape now.:)

Now that you've done this, put the butt cap back on. Add two layers of tape to the top/bottom/sides, cutting flush to the butt cap. Check-out the shape. If it is not enough, add another layer to all four places, extending the tape over the butt cap 1/8 inch. If sill not enough, go one more layer, and again, extend over the butt cap, 1/8 in further over than the previous layer.

Now that it is so big, dump the syn grip, and wrap with two overgrips, BB style.

Pneumated1
07-19-2011, 08:17 PM
Now that you've done this, put the butt cap back on. Add two layers of tape to the top/bottom/sides, cutting flush to the butt cap. Check-out the shape. If it is not enough, add another layer to all four places, extending the tape over the butt cap 1/8 inch. If sill not enough, go one more layer, and again, extend over the butt cap, 1/8 in further over than the previous layer.

Now that it is so big, dump the syn grip, and wrap with two overgrips, BB style.

I'll make these changes tomorrow. I probably shouldn't have done so, but I put the pallets back on without double sided tape temporarily, heated the pallet again, put the original staples back in the butt cap, and wrapped the synthetic tight. I'm gonna have a brief hitting session after work tomorrow, and I'll see what I think. But I will apply the tape, glue, and new staples when all is said and done.

I really like the idea of the octagonal shape and wider bevels, so I'll definitely build it up some more, as you recommend. And the two overgrips should work well with my size "4" pallet. If not, I could easily pick up some 1/4 or 3/8 pallets to start with. This is a lot of fun, and it should make a big difference actually playing tennis.

Thanks for the assistance, Maverick. And thanks, NBM, for the suggestions, as well.

TennisMaverick
07-19-2011, 08:26 PM
I'll make these changes tomorrow. I probably shouldn't have done so, but I put the pallets back on without double sided tape temporarily, heated the pallet again, put the original staples back in the butt cap, and wrapped the synthetic tight. I'm gonna have a brief hitting session after work tomorrow, and I'll see what I think. But I will apply the tape, glue, and new staples when all is said and done.

I really like the idea of the octagonal shape and wider bevels, so I'll definitely build it up some more, as you recommend. And the two overgrips should work well with my size "4" pallet. If not, I could easily pick up some 1/4 or 3/8 pallets to start with. This is a lot of fun, and it should make a big difference actually playing tennis.

Thanks for the assistance, Maverick. And thanks, NBM, for the suggestions, as well.

No problem....good thread....no hater/stalkers coming out to play much...

Leaf1569
07-19-2011, 08:40 PM
If anyone likes Volkl but not the gripshape, you really should try out the Attiva pallets. Makes the gripshape like a Wilson and they are easy to swap out yourself. If anyone wants more info on them, just email me through. my profile.

And for anyone who's curious, the Organix pallets are just as easy to swap as the previous one's. I just replaced the 3/8 pallet on my Organix 8 with a 1/2 from a older Volkl and it worked perfectly. The Bio Sensor system stays inside the pallet and when you replace the Organix buttcap, the "stem" just slides into place. Piece of cake? I also replaced another 3/8 with a Becker 1/2 pallet I had lying around and that fit also. Had to trim the length just a bit, but it fit perfectly and I can't really tell them apart once I have overgrips on.
I can't find your email on your profile. may i have it. I am interested in getting the Attiva pallet.

JackB1
07-19-2011, 08:43 PM
I can't find your email on your profile. may i have it. I am interested in getting the Attiva pallet.

You just click my name on the left and then click "send email to..."
If that doesn't work let me know or give me your email.

JackB1
07-19-2011, 08:46 PM
No problem....good thread....no hater/stalkers coming out to play much...

Stop baiting you know who! :)

All's cool so let's enjoy the good Karma and Kumbaya around the campfire :cool::cool::cool:

JackB1
07-19-2011, 08:51 PM
But I'm amazed at how simple this is. Now that I've stripped all the lead off of my sticks and don't have that to worry about, I guess I'll become OC about my grip shape now.:)

It is easy. and don't worry about not glueing your pallets back on, they are held in tight with the grip and won't go anywhere. When I change my pallets, I just heat up the residue glue on the pallets and on the handle and slide the pallets on and quickly wrap tight with the grip. I have never had an issue and they are more easily removed if you want to swap em out with something else at a later date. I don't even staple back on the buttcaps. I just use a little double stick tape under them and they never move.

Leaf1569
07-19-2011, 08:52 PM
You just click my name on the left and then click "send email to..."
If that doesn't work let me know or give me your email.

I don't seem to have that option. My email is mach_jason@hotmail.com

TennisMaverick
07-19-2011, 09:57 PM
What sizes are most of you guys looking for?

TennisMaverick
07-19-2011, 10:01 PM
All's cool so let's enjoy the good Karma and Kumbaya around the campfire :cool::cool::cool:

I agree...there are five of them who come out at any given time, and four are apparently on a diet...so...more food for us! You notice that I never reply to them now, since those who draw first blood and start the attack tend to get a pass, and those who defend and counter, get nailed. The system is flawed; think Casey Anthony.

Agent Orynge
07-20-2011, 12:20 AM
I agree...there are five of them who come out at any given time, and four are apparently on a diet...so...more food for us! You notice that I never reply to them now, since those who draw first blood and start the attack tend to get a pass, and those who defend and counter, get nailed. The system is flawed; think Casey Anthony.

Poor Mav. The stalkers and haters are everywhere, and all in league with the mods! How terrible it must be to have the whole system arrayed against you.

Come to think of it, you didn't get banned for being a sweet, innocent poster. The system must be fine after all, though your mirror might bear closer inspection. I hope you realize that you don't have to 'reply' to get banned for harassment. Watch your step...

JackB1
07-20-2011, 06:16 AM
I agree...there are five of them who come out at any given time, and four are apparently on a diet...so...more food for us! You notice that I never reply to them now, since those who draw first blood and start the attack tend to get a pass, and those who defend and counter, get nailed. The system is flawed; think Casey Anthony.

I agree, the retaliator always gets nailed and in the instigator gets off scott-free. That's great that you aren't responding directly to these people, but if all is calm, no need to even reference them. Just enjoy the view :)

Pneumated1
07-20-2011, 06:30 AM
It is easy. and don't worry about not glueing your pallets back on, they are held in tight with the grip and won't go anywhere. When I change my pallets, I just heat up the residue glue on the pallets and on the handle and slide the pallets on and quickly wrap tight with the grip. I have never had an issue and they are more easily removed if you want to swap em out with something else at a later date. I don't even staple back on the buttcaps. I just use a little double stick tape under them and they never move.

It all "seems" to have enough stability and integrity at this point. The pallets did have a lot of residual glue on them, and the original staples are working temporarily, but I'll at least put some double sided tape under the pallets and around the butt cap when all is said and done.

Very interesting process; I never knew the changes that could be made to a pallet.:)

JackB1
07-20-2011, 06:45 AM
It all "seems" to have enough stability and integrity at this point. The pallets did have a lot of residual glue on them, and the original staples are working temporarily, but I'll at least put some double sided tape under the pallets and around the butt cap when all is said and done.

Very interesting process; I never knew the changes that could be made to a pallet.:)

Best thing is spray adhesive. You can spray a light coating before sliding the pallets into place. Something that "slides" is best so u can make sure the pallets are in proper position before the glue takes hold. Also, you can heat it up when loosening and taking off. Double sided tape doesn't allow a "slide", but is OK if you don't want to remove it ever.

Pneumated1
07-20-2011, 07:08 AM
Best thing is spray adhesive. You can spray a light coating before sliding the pallets into place. Something that "slides" is best so u can make sure the pallets are in proper position before the glue takes hold. Also, you can heat it up when loosening and taking off. Double sided tape doesn't allow a "slide", but is OK if you don't want to remove it ever.

I see. Can you find spray adhesive at Lowes, Home Depot, Hardware store, etc? How about a bead or two of glue? That would allow "sliding" when heated again, I would think. Thanks for the advice.

JackB1
07-20-2011, 07:13 AM
I see. Can you find spray adhesive at Lowes, Home Depot, Hardware store, etc? How about a bead or two of glue? That would allow "sliding" when heated again, I would think. Thanks for the advice.

Yes, they have spray adhesive at Home Depot. I think it's made by 3M.
Never tried beads of glue. The spray works great because it allows a thin coating and that's all u need. Most times I just reheat the residue that's left over on the insides of the pallet and on the handle and that's sufficient. I only use extra spray if there's not much adhesive left or I want to make it "permanent".

Hominator
07-20-2011, 08:04 AM
Speaking of smells, have you ever eaten Kimchi? I shared lunch with one of the Koreans whom I tutor today, and I tried it for the first time. The smell is almost unbearable for an unconditioned American. I loved the spice, but I've never been a big cabbage eater---not even Southeastern Cabbage/Corned Beef/Cornbread---much less cold/pickled cabbage.

Get you some Kimchi take out; you will smell nothing else!

...back to the kimchi :)

When I lived in Seoul for a few years, the whole city would smell of kimchi. You get used to it and its acidity is good to balance the base of the rice. The red kimchi, is relatively new to Korea, given its history. I think the Portuguese brought the red pepper to Korea. Traditional kimchi, or "muul kimchi" is very much like Chinese pickled cabbage. BTW, there are tons of varieties of kimchi, using different vegetables, and every Korean family swears their mother's is the best :)

Back to Volkls...:)

Pneumated1
07-20-2011, 09:22 AM
...back to the kimchi :)

When I lived in Seoul for a few years, the whole city would smell of kimchi. You get used to it and its acidity is good to balance the base of the rice. The red kimchi, is relatively new to Korea, given its history. I think the Portuguese brought the red pepper to Korea. Traditional kimchi, or "muul kimchi" is very much like Chinese pickled cabbage. BTW, there are tons of varieties of kimchi, using different vegetables, and every Korean family swears their mother's is the best :)

Back to Volkls...:)

What's up, man? Haven't heard from you in awhile. Hope all is well.:)

Every South Korean with whom I speak, to a person, claims kimchi as their favorite food; but you're right, I've picked-up on the complexity of preparation when asking how it's made. The Korean women cringe over such discussions, as the preparation can be quite laborious, if not tedious, from what I understand.

I prefer Jap Chae and can eat my weight in it, although it too can be made in various ways---but none thus far of which I would disapprove. Take care.

TennisMaverick
07-20-2011, 02:15 PM
...back to the kimchi :)

When I lived in Seoul for a few years, the whole city would smell of kimchi. You get used to it and its acidity is good to balance the base of the rice. The red kimchi, is relatively new to Korea, given its history. I think the Portuguese brought the red pepper to Korea. Traditional kimchi, or "muul kimchi" is very much like Chinese pickled cabbage. BTW, there are tons of varieties of kimchi, using different vegetables, and every Korean family swears their mother's is the best :)

Back to Volkls...:)

Glad to see you're alive!

Fermenting with fish/shrimp is the culprit. Other forms of Kimchi done without it, taste better, IMO. But either way, it masks all other odors for sure.

Pneumated1
07-20-2011, 07:58 PM
Now that you've done this, put the butt cap back on. Add two layers of tape to the top/bottom/sides, cutting flush to the butt cap. Check-out the shape. If it is not enough, add another layer to all four places, extending the tape over the butt cap 1/8 inch. If sill not enough, go one more layer, and again, extend over the butt cap, 1/8 in further over than the previous layer.

Now that it is so big, dump the syn grip, and wrap with two overgrips, BB style.

I had a very brief, non-competitive chance to try out the square grip this evening---hit a few balls and serves. I was surprised to find that I don't care for the square grip unless I can widen the bevels. I picked up my other stick with the non-modified grip and actually preferred it. Good to know! I'm gonna try what you've recommended above to see if that helps, as I love the Dunlop shape, no doubt about it.

What I may be looking for, after all, is just widening the bevels to at least the width of the standard BB top/bottom: 9/16". If so, I could just add to the top/bottom/sides evenly until I reach the desired bevel width. I would assume that that would create a void in the bevel area, however. Is that why you wrap the whole grip several times after you add to the sides/top/bottom---to help give this voided area some substance? I think I'm getting close to what I want. The only way to find out is to experiment. Thanks.


Yes, they have spray adhesive at Home Depot. I think it's made by 3M.
Never tried beads of glue. The spray works great because it allows a thin coating and that's all u need. Most times I just reheat the residue that's left over on the insides of the pallet and on the handle and that's sufficient. I only use extra spray if there's not much adhesive left or I want to make it "permanent".

Thanks, Jack. I'll look into it for sure.

Hominator
07-21-2011, 06:33 AM
What's up, man? Haven't heard from you in awhile. Hope all is well.:)

Every South Korean with whom I speak, to a person, claims kimchi as their favorite food; but you're right, I've picked-up on the complexity of preparation when asking how it's made. The Korean women cringe over such discussions, as the preparation can be quite laborious, if not tedious, from what I understand.

I prefer Jap Chae and can eat my weight in it, although it too can be made in various ways---but none thus far of which I would disapprove. Take care.

New job this week and the hours are killing me. Not much time to play tennis these days...

Hominator
07-21-2011, 06:34 AM
Glad to see you're alive!

Fermenting with fish/shrimp is the culprit. Other forms of Kimchi done without it, taste better, IMO. But either way, it masks all other odors for sure.

If I can carve some time out, let's meet up for lunch or something!

JackB1
07-21-2011, 12:57 PM
Some interesting info here regarding Volkl & Becker pallets:

http://www.gssalliance.com/2011/volkl-pallet-system-information/

TennisMaverick
07-21-2011, 03:21 PM
Some interesting info here regarding Volkl & Becker pallets:

http://www.gssalliance.com/2011/volkl-pallet-system-information/

This info is spot on. Volkl produces stat sheets for each stick and the pallets which are used or fit-able.

Pneumated1
07-23-2011, 07:53 PM
I did a little more research into what it was I was trying to emulate in the Dunlop grip shape. What I found was that the Dunlop shape has equal widths on the top/bottom and bevels, with the sides being a little wider, from what I can gather. My BB grip shape is pretty close to this, as the sides are a little wider than the top/bottom. The bevels are a little smaller, however, on the London pallet.

Just making the BB pallet wider didn't do the trick for me, considering that what I'm after is the same top/bottom/bevel widths, not the same top/bottom/sides like a Wilson. Unless I'm just overlooking the obvious, I can't replicate the Dunlop grip shape on my London, any way I look at it. To make the bevels wider, I'd have to narrow the top/bottom/sides just a bit and build them both up past the bevel profile. I think the top/bottom/sides would be too narrow as a result. If I narrow the sides and just build them up, it gets too square again. Lose/lose.

In the end, I realize that I don't mind the Becker shape at all, and the slight deviations from the Dunlop won't be a big adjustment. I'd say I'm mostly adjusted at this point anyway, but in a perfect world . . .

TennisMaverick
07-23-2011, 08:25 PM
I did a little more research into what it was I was trying to emulate in the Dunlop grip shape. What I found was that the Dunlop shape has equal widths on the top/bottom and bevels, with the sides being a little wider, from what I can gather. My BB grip shape is pretty close to this, as the sides are a little wider than the top/bottom. The bevels are a little smaller, however, on the London pallet.

Just making the BB pallet wider didn't do the trick for me, considering that what I'm after is the same top/bottom/bevel widths, not the same top/bottom/sides like a Wilson. Unless I'm just overlooking the obvious, I can't replicate the Dunlop grip shape on my London, any way I look at it. To make the bevels wider, I'd have to narrow the top/bottom/sides just a bit and build them both up past the bevel profile. I think the top/bottom/sides would be too narrow as a result. If I narrow the sides and just build them up, it gets too square again. Lose/lose.

In the end, I realize that I don't mind the Becker shape at all, and the slight deviations from the Dunlop won't be a big adjustment. I'd say I'm mostly adjusted at this point anyway, but in a perfect world . . .

Widen pallets as NBM said. Then, add layers onto the top/bottom sides, until the bevels become wide enough. If that base is too large, dump the syn grip for one or two overgrips, BB style.

Big_Dangerous
07-23-2011, 08:31 PM
Good stuff TM.

I'm only 23 and I can't stand the stock grip lol

Yep, right now I've spent a lot of time customizing my frames but I think I've got them down to exactly how I want them.

First: For a new racket, Take the base grip off.
Second: Determine how much my customized rackets weigh (12.7 ounces).
Third: Weight racket with no base grip, then put on a fairway leather grip and 1 Yonex Super Grap on the scale to determine how much lead tape I need to add to get the racket to 12.7 ounces.
Fourth: Apply lead tape to get the balance as close as possible without a balance board.
Fifth: Install Fairway leather grip.
Sixth: Install Yonex Super Grap (Yellow).

And I'm ready to hit.

:)

canadad
07-23-2011, 08:35 PM
When I first changed from Head Speeds to my BB Londons, I was baffled and frustrated by the grip. I remember wondering, "Why would a company make such a grip shape?" I really did dislike the shape.
With my two sticks I rounded one out with hockey tape and left the other one in stock form. I then switched back and forth for about two weeks. Unexpectedly, I grew to prefer the BB London shape and then unmodified rounded out one. I really did go from frustration to acceptance. I just like how it sits in my hand, it feels right now.

Pneumated1
07-23-2011, 08:51 PM
Widen pallets as NBM said. Then, add layers onto the top/bottom sides, until the bevels become wide enough. If that base is too large, dump the syn grip for one or two overgrips, BB style.

I have it widened as NBM said, and I know that you recommended at this point to stack it on the top/bottom/sides, but I need to add a 1/4" to the bevel width just to get it to the width of my narrowest side (top/bottom). It will most likely be too wide when said and done, because I'm starting with my proper grip size, but I may as well try it out at this point.

I went 4 layers on each side of the hairpin just to make up the 1/8" difference in top/bottom/sides, so I figured a 1/4" would be undoable and stopped. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Unexpectedly, I grew to prefer the BB London shape and then unmodified rounded out one. I really did go from frustration to acceptance. I just like how it sits in my hand, it feels right now.

I think I'm there with you. My forehand is my "weaker" side, and this London pallet just feels more natural, almost as if I can "work" the ball a little more, with more options on that side. Every time I hit with something else or try to modify, I'm glad to get this "strange" pallet shape back in my hand. Funny what you can grow to accept, huh?

canadad
07-23-2011, 09:47 PM
I think I'm there with you. My forehand is my "weaker" side, and this London pallet just feels more natural, almost as if I can "work" the ball a little more, with more options on that side. Every time I hit with something else or try to modify, I'm glad to get this "strange" pallet shape back in my hand. Funny what you can grow to accept, huh?

Agreed, it is the forehand where I feel the most comfortable with the Becker pallet. Believe me, I was skeptical and I did say some negative things, but it does feel nice.

mctennis
07-23-2011, 10:48 PM
Some interesting info here regarding Volkl & Becker pallets:

http://www.gssalliance.com/2011/volkl-pallet-system-information/

Great info. Thanks for sharing it.

JackB1
07-24-2011, 08:07 AM
Agreed, it is the forehand where I feel the most comfortable with the Becker pallet. Believe me, I was skeptical and I did say some negative things, but it does feel nice.

It's all about what u get used to. Play with a Volkl pallet for a year and the standard Wilson type will feel weird and vice versa. It only takes me a couple of weeks to get comfortable with a new grip shape and then I'm good.

TennisMaverick
07-24-2011, 03:12 PM
If I can carve some time out, let's meet up for lunch or something!

After this week I should be good. Tuesdays or Fridays are best for me.

TennisMaverick
07-24-2011, 03:22 PM
I've said it many times, and I'll say it once again:

If you mod your sticks to your own person needs, why are you not doing so with your grips instead of complaining? I rarely hear anyone complaining that they put lead tape on a frame or swapped a leather grip for a synthetic one! We were modifying grips with strips of wood while playing with Dunlop Maxplys; sanding down areas to make wood sticks lighter, or more flexible; skipping strings to make larger sweet spots; stringing individual strings with different tensions because the wood held them; adding more coats of shellac to make them heavier; and for guys like Borg, manufactured frames with additional plys to make them stiffer/stronger.

Bottom Line: Time to get with the 40-50 or more year program!

SVP
07-26-2011, 05:56 PM
South Korean Kim Chi is a little tough. As an American, you could probably handle the milder Chinese version, although Kimchi was originally Chinese, pao cai, where the "c" is pronounced like a "ts", which is pickled cabbage. It's like white Kimchi. But Kimchi is 5,000 year old food and really healthy and much better than cold slaw in the summer with e coli running around! Pneumated, you should realize that you're being played here. Where does this guy get off on coming up with these so-called "Chinese" terms, pao cai, "c" is pronounced as "ts." What is "white Kimchi?" He made this up. Why is "c" pronounced as "ts?"

Please moderators, remove this guy from our boards.

OldButGame
07-26-2011, 06:14 PM
Pneumated, you should realize that you're being played here. Where does this guy get off on coming up with these so-called "Chinese" terms, pao cai, "c" is pronounced as "ts." What is "white Kimchi?" He made this up. Why is "c" pronounced as "ts?"

Please moderators, remove this guy from our boards.
SVP,...it seems You are easily annoyed,..remember when You were quick to 'inform me' that use of periods like this,....... were annoying to You??....we all have our traits and idiosyncrasies,...lighten up a little,..its just an internet forum,...oh,..and here (for You).............................................. .................

Pneumated1
07-26-2011, 09:12 PM
I had the chance this evening to examine closely the Dunlop grip shape on a 4D 200 Tour. The store trying to sell this was reducing a 5/8 grip by putting one thick overgrip on it, so the top/bottom/sides/bevels were very defined.

First, I prefer the width of the sides on the Becker pallet, especially for my forehand, my weaker side. There's just more contact with my hand on the Becker. The Dunlop had more narrow sides than the Becker, but surprisingly, the sides were still wider on the Dunlop than the top/bottom/bevels, which were all the exact same size.

Second, I realize why I've had an ever-so-slight gripe with my Becker pallet on my 1hbh, my stronger side. Because the bevels are more narrow than the top/bottom on the Becker, unlike the Dunlop, which are equal in width, my almost Western grip on the backhand side has a harder time finding a "seat," going too extreme, closing the racquet face too much and dropping the ball into the net---without a lot of leg work to get under the ball. Because the Dunlop shape is "flatter" on the top/bevels, I can get away with this grip that doesn't really match my swing.

Third, I've unmodified my Becker pallet and reinstalled the pallet and butt cap with spray adhesive (thanks Jack). When I force myself to hit backhands with a more moderate Eastern grip with the London, my ball has incredible drive and more bite than with my old grip. That tells me that the Eastern grip is more suitable for my swing style and that the London pallet will force me to keep hitting it.

In conclusion, if I want the top/bottom/bevels of my Becker pallet to resemble the Dunlop shape, all that's needed is to build right on top of the top/bottom/sides of the pallet to simply create the same width between the bevels and the top/bottom. On the other hand, I think I'll just work on the Eastern backhand grip with the stock pallet, considering that forehands, serves, and volleys already jibe more with the Becker shape.

TennisMaverick
07-26-2011, 09:21 PM
...if I want the top/bottom/bevels of my Becker pallet to resemble the Dunlop shape, all that's needed is to build right on top of the top/bottom/sides of the pallet to simply create the same width between the bevels and the top/bottom.

I think I READ that somewhere.....

Pneumated1
07-26-2011, 09:50 PM
[QUOTE=TennisMaverick;5861553]I think I READ that somewhere.....[QUOTE]

True, you did recommend it before any mention of widening the pallet underneath, which I didn't care for at all. I have all of your information in the ole noggin, but I just needed to figure out why I thought I needed to change the pallet shape---there should be a good reason. Pragmatism isn't a philosophy of mine. Making the change is the easy part, but figuring out why is more significant, imo. Reflecting upon all the disparate pieces of the puzzle, I now know why I hit the best backhands of my life with the Becker by going more Eastern and why I can get away with a bad habit with the Dunlop.

Just let me enjoy my epiphany:)---but stop me if I'm wrong!

JackB1
07-27-2011, 06:55 AM
I think I READ that somewhere.....

lol :razz:

TennisMaverick
07-27-2011, 11:39 AM
[QUOTE=TennisMaverick;5861553]I think I READ that somewhere.....[QUOTE]

True, you did recommend it before any mention of widening the pallet underneath, which I didn't care for at all. I have all of your information in the ole noggin, but I just needed to figure out why I thought I needed to change the pallet shape---there should be a good reason. Pragmatism isn't a philosophy of mine. Making the change is the easy part, but figuring out why is more significant, imo. Reflecting upon all the disparate pieces of the puzzle, I now know why I hit the best backhands of my life with the Becker by going more Eastern and why I can get away with a bad habit with the Dunlop.

Just let me enjoy my epiphany:)---but stop me if I'm wrong!

Stubbornness ....is a trait of Champions.

Pneumated1
07-27-2011, 05:43 PM
[QUOTE=Pneumated1;5861602][QUOTE=TennisMaverick;5861553]I think I READ that somewhere.....

Stubbornness ....is a trait of Champions.

Imagine that . . . and just when I had convinced my wife (and started believing it myself) that I wasn't stubborn! That she would still buy. The champion part on the other hand . . .

OldButGame
07-27-2011, 06:09 PM
Dang....my wife is a champion and i didnt realize it,....:wink:

Pneumated1
07-27-2011, 06:56 PM
Dang....my wife is a champion and i didnt realize it,....:wink:

But blessed nonetheless; admit it:)

TennisMaverick
07-27-2011, 09:43 PM
But blessed nonetheless; admit it:)

You guys have found new signatures!!!

Beejay
11-01-2011, 08:41 AM
You just click my name on the left and then click "send email to..."
If that doesn't work let me know or give me your email.

I can't email you by clicking your name, because I am a new to the Talk Tennis.
I am very interested in getting square Attiva pallet. Could you email me at beejcha@yahoo.com?

Beejay