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View Full Version : Heavy Spin With Dense String Pattern?


chicken nugget
05-17-2011, 06:25 AM
I play with a 18x20, 95sq" racquet and I find it impossible to hit a top-spin kicker that goes to the opponent's shoulder.

Does anyone have the same problem or it is just me?

Power Player
05-17-2011, 06:31 AM
If you can't do it, buy an open pattern stick. Matters which racquet as well. Most important is your technique.

theyhatethecans
05-17-2011, 06:41 AM
I play with a 18x20, 95sq" racquet and I find it impossible to hit a top-spin kicker that goes to the opponent's shoulder.

Does anyone have the same problem or it is just me?

I play with the same set up and have the same problem with a kick serve (dunlop bio 200) but love everything else about the racket. I use 16 gauge gamma asterisks spin at 62#. I am sometimes amazed at how much top spin I can get on a forehand with this racket (since I was never expecting this out of this racket). When I use the bio 200 lite (which I plan on buying as well for different situations), I can get nasty kick spin on the serve but I attribute that more to the racket head speed I can generate with the lighter weight than the open string pattern (although I'm sure the open pattern helps a little)

Andy

ryushen21
05-17-2011, 06:48 AM
I play with a 18x20, 95sq" racquet and I find it impossible to hit a top-spin kicker that goes to the opponent's shoulder.

Does anyone have the same problem or it is just me?

I would suggest you revisit your technique. I play with 18x20 midsize frames and I can generate a kick serve that bounces up that high regularly. If your technique is not good it will not matter the string pattern.

jmverdugo
05-17-2011, 06:49 AM
I have an 18x20 98sq" (LMRad) and I have a mean kicker, maybe the 2sq" does do a big difference.

LeeD
05-17-2011, 11:19 AM
Are you saying you cannot hit a topspin lob that goes 10' high at the backboard? Most good topspin lobs land about that, when they are hit deep to the baseline.
Just loop it higher, swing faster! Girls need no apply.

thug the bunny
05-17-2011, 11:23 AM
I use 2 18x20 sticks, no prob generating ts. Use lower gauge with lower tension...

theyhatethecans
05-17-2011, 11:32 AM
I use 2 18x20 sticks, no prob generating ts. Use lower gauge with lower tension...

Do you use a poly? If not, what string and gauge are you using?

geese_com
05-17-2011, 11:45 AM
I would have to say the spin is in the racquet head speed and on kick serves, your legs.

neverstopplaying
05-17-2011, 11:46 AM
Its easier with some racquets than others, though I also believe its technique dependent.

With my BB mids (16 mains), getting a serve to kick high and away form the receiver is easy, but my coach tells me that my technique is still lacking. This lack of proper technique shows when hitting with a 4D200. I have to get more "under" the ball, which isn't as necessary with an open pattern.

hescobal
05-17-2011, 11:50 AM
Maybe just try a slightly lower tension. I think having more directional control (18x20 pattern) is more important than having a slightly higher kick serve, just imo.

I'm sure your kick serve isn't as bad as you make it, just practice your technique more

hescobal
05-17-2011, 11:50 AM
Double post

Marcus
05-17-2011, 11:51 AM
Try some lead at 12

That worked for me when I was struggling with 2nd serve when using dense pattern frames

Mark

chicken nugget
05-17-2011, 04:16 PM
Try some lead at 12

That worked for me when I was struggling with 2nd serve when using dense pattern frames

Mark

Thanks everyone for the input.

Marc, how much lead should I use at 12?

Hankenstein
05-17-2011, 11:00 PM
Sorry to dissapoint you, but in most cases itīs the technique of the player that is the main factor for heavy kick-serves. I am a tall guy at 199 cmīs and i had problems hitting a decent kicker for a long time. Then a coach helped me just changing my grip a fraction and use my legs more, brush the ball upwards and voila, there it was!

But.... an open 16/18-19 string pattern will create kickers easier. Babolat Pure Storm Tour are a mean serveing machine

mikeler
05-18-2011, 04:51 AM
Sorry to dissapoint you, but in most cases itīs the technique of the player that is the main factor for heavy kick-serves. I am a tall guy at 199 cmīs and i had problems hitting a decent kicker for a long time. Then a coach helped me just changing my grip a fraction and use my legs more, brush the ball upwards and voila, there it was!

But.... an open 16/18-19 string pattern will create kickers easier. Babolat Pure Storm Tour are a mean serveing machine


Especially the extended version. :)

Dekline
05-18-2011, 05:39 AM
If you can hit one with an open pattern you can hit one with a dense one as well.

The pattern will be a matter preference. Maybe a little more bite with open vs. dense...........but it will kick regardless.

If you have the technique and strength (requires major racquet head speed) to hit even a basic-average kickserve, you are way past the influence of a string pattern. At this point you are just looking for what "feels best".

ryushen21
05-18-2011, 06:19 AM
Thanks everyone for the input.

Marc, how much lead should I use at 12?

As it has been said by several others here, I don't think that adding lead to your frame is the answer. Since regardless of where you place the lead you will be increasing weight which means that you will have to do more to accelerate that additional mass you are adding.

The focus here really should be on improving the technique that you are using to hit your kick serve. Make sure that your toss is a good position and that you are accelerating the racquet in a manner that produces enough RHS to produce the desired results.

As it was also mentioned, you may want to consider a change in string or string guage. A 17g or 18g string will increase the spin potential in your dense patterned frame. I would also recommend dropping the tension a few pounds, especially if you are using poly.

Work on your technique and try out a 17g or 18g shaped co-poly and see what kind of results you start getting.

thug the bunny
05-18-2011, 08:07 AM
Do you use a poly? If not, what string and gauge are you using?

Poly's are too stiff for me. I use multi's - x1 BP, gamma pro, and nxt tour are my fav's. 18g in my Redondo C93, and 18 or 17g in my Bab PSL, anywhere from 50 - 54 lbs.

theyhatethecans
05-18-2011, 08:12 AM
Poly's are too stiff for me. I use multi's - x1 BP, gamma pro, and nxt tour are my fav's. 18g in my Redondo C93, and 18 or 17g in my Bab PSL.

Cool. Thanks. I've tried x1 bp and didn't like it at all. Nxt tour is on my list to try. I'm wary of of going with thinner string than 16 gauge because whenever I do my racket feels too springy.

thug the bunny
05-18-2011, 09:55 AM
Yeah, it's hard to add up all the different variables - your swing, head size, string bed density, frame flex, gauge and tension - all contribute to the feel you get. I found NXT tour to be the stiffest of those 3, however, maybe you'll like it.

louis netman
05-19-2011, 09:04 PM
I play with a 18x20, 95sq" racquet and I find it impossible to hit a top-spin kicker that goes to the opponent's shoulder.

Does anyone have the same problem or it is just me?

Honestly, I've given the issue much thought regarding open vs denser patterns. Indeed, we assume the open pattern would bite the ball better, however, a denser pattern would have more surface area of string in contact with the ball. I have experimented and discovered that with the same swing-speed, I hit kickers equally well with both 16x18 and 18x20 frames. Gotta make sure you're racket is maneuverable enough to get adequate swing-speed in your service motion to generate that kicker...

fuzz nation
05-20-2011, 04:19 AM
I used to assume that an open pattern offered superior spin potential in a racquet and that opinion was further shored up when a pal of mine explained how the greater spaces between the strings allow for them to get better bite on the ball. The basic idea was that the felt on the ball can smush into the larger squares between the strings and they can work sort of like a tire with a deeper, more pronounced tread grabbing a softer surface like dirt or snow. Seemed reasonable enough for me.

Then I got hold of a very flexible mid a few years ago (Prince NXG) which has a 92 sq. inch hoop and an 18x20 layout. Spin potential? Absolutely un-real! This is a case though, where the spin-friendliness comes to me through the softness and heft of the racquet, not the string pattern.

I had a Dunlop M-Fil 200 a while back and also had a pair of LM Radicals for a while. Both were dense pattern frames and not terribly stiff, but I didn't really see big spin potential in either or those. Also had a Redondo mid-plus for a while and that's a gummy-bear-soft racquet that also seemed to bring a whole lot of spin to the equation.

My assumptions these days concerning string patterns aren't as all-encompassing as they were and I prefer to try any racquet instead of qualifying its performance according to its string pattern and nothing else. For a player with more modern strokes, higher swing speeds, and angular contact with the ball, an open string pattern in a stiffer, middleweight frame might be a good idea, but otherwise I look for the flex in a frame as the largest spin contributor for me.