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View Full Version : Ok, I did it, I finally hit with a Vantage


LafayetteHitter
06-27-2005, 12:18 PM
Ok, after months of reading all these posts about Vantage I did it, worked a trade for a 90" Vantage in black with tan leather grip 16X18 string pattern, 11.7 weight with the most headlight available specs. Right out the box I would say it's superb build quality really did impress me and the black finish with a black overgrip looks as if the team that designed the stealth bomber would've designed this as well, it's the first MEAN looking racquet i've seen. Now for the playing side of it, I only hit a few serves with it and some fed ground strokes along with some volleys but I am quite impressed. It played way way better than I think was expected. I'll update this after i've put some matches on it but so far I really like it.

Scott

lookitstrevor
06-27-2005, 12:22 PM
I think a white overgrip would be pretty sweet. good luck in your matches.

MTChong
06-27-2005, 12:43 PM
Oh, it's nice that you tried one out. I thought you were leaving the boards? If you're returning, welcome back, and if you never did, excuse my ignorance. Anyways, I'm thinking of getting a 90" Vantage too with pretty much the same specs as yourself but only 10 pts HL. I look forward to a more comprehensive review from you! Thanks for the brief overview.

BreakPoint
06-27-2005, 12:48 PM
Sounds like the same specs as my Vantage 90. Yes, please give us a more extensive review once you played with it more. Mine is pretty sweet IMO.

LafayetteHitter
06-27-2005, 08:27 PM
I hit with it for a while longer tonight. First off let me say this, it hits SOLID and I had no problem generating pace on groundstrokes. Second thing to add is this racquet seems to have the largest sweetspot I have found on a 90" racquet. Aside from simply framing a ball the stringbed is very generous. Before using this racquet I had used the RDX500 mid for quite some time last year and found it to have a large sweetspot but even it cannot compare with the Vantage. And it is quite fun to be out on the court wielding this jet black sword with people wondering what it is. I had two people ask what the racquet was. Net play was all that I could've expected with it's 90" head and the shots went right where I wanted them to on the majority of points. These racquets do what they are supposed to do and do it well. Serving is the highlight of the stick, I was at the courts earlier today as well with another board member from here that also mentioned that they loved the serves with this stick. They are a RDX500 MP user and he hardly believe it was a 90" frame. You know there are a group of great racquets out there and from this I have learned that Vantage is now one of them, for some of us at least. More later...

Scott

Rory G
07-04-2005, 06:52 PM
I have pretty much demo'd everything in sight during the past couple of years. I settled on the LM Prestige MP and loved it. A little too "mushy" and sometimes low on power, but a great feeling racquet with unbelievable control. I tried a Vantage frame on a whim and really enjoyed it. Played with a demo for a couple of weeks and decided to order one more to my specs. I will never look back. Great quality frame with a solid, crisp feel yet with a great 63 flex. Great pop and maneuverability. I went with a 27.25 length, 16 x 19 pattern, 100" head (great for my 2H backhand), approx. 11.8oz strung with overgrip and dampener). The stick plays like a dream. The spin of a Yonex MP 5, but with the control of my trusted old Prestige. I hope that TW works out a deal with Vantage because IMO they are the makers of a real classic frame.

LafayetteHitter
07-04-2005, 07:02 PM
Well I have now put quite a few matches behind me with the Vantage and continue to realize I finally settled on the right frame. Everyone is different and each person will find a frame that is just right for them it took a while for me to realize what I needed to use and luckily it came from a trade on a whim for this Vantage. I've heard numerous people mention the service and I must say I was impressed. I asked for quite a bit and they came through with each request. First off i'm a lefty and I realized while ordering I was going to have to rip off the leather grip and swap it to wrap it for a lefty. Well I e-mailed that as a request as well and they have reverse wrapped my black leather grips. I also really like the black one I have already but thought it would be cool to have an identical racquet in white so they let me mix colors on my package deal that was a nice touch as well. All in all I am just happy that I have hit with almost everything available and found something that suits my game. The Estusa was a close second but the bump in power with the Vantage while still having the control I desired along with excellent net play sold me on the Vantage racquet. So with that said for everyone that is hitting with different racquets trying everything, continue the search because there is a great racquet out there for each of us.

GuyPerez
07-06-2005, 04:23 PM
Glad you like it. I have been hitting with mine for 5 months now and love it still. Just completed my USTA season at 10 - 1 #1 singles (my first year since being bumped to 4.0.) Going with a heavier frame has really helped my game. I may be bumped to 4.5 and look forward to taking my Vantage frames with me! (spec 3,2,1,2,10)

eLterrible
07-06-2005, 04:38 PM
I was thinking of getting a Vantage, but after looking at all of the customization options, it turned out like a racquet almost exactly like a 300g or a very light pro#1, so i just decided to buy the sticks instead of a vantage to save the $$, when i get advance ill probably consider vantage tho.

GuyPerez
07-06-2005, 04:40 PM
eLterrible
Where in Virginia are you? I am in Midlothian, near Richmond. I used to play with the 300G.

eLterrible
07-06-2005, 07:11 PM
I live in alexandria, way north, next to DC.

BLiND
07-07-2005, 12:20 AM
I agree the 90" are exellent frames, fairly powerful and fairly large sweetspot... VERY solid to hit with and feel great.

I started with a 90" and moved to a 95", mostly because I am use to hitting with 18x20 strings... but I did like the 90".

timmyboy
07-07-2005, 01:51 AM
How much bigger is the sweetspot than the RDX 500 mid?

Kevo
07-07-2005, 07:20 AM
Anytime someone talks about a large sweetspot, I always want to know what strings they were hitting with. I've found that string type and tension can make a huge difference in the perceived sweetspot. I hit with an nCode 90" with some prince synthetic gut that was strung loose, and I don't think you could miss the sweetspot and still hit string. However, when stringing tighter the sweetspot would move noticeably to the lower portion of the head.

BDAZ
07-07-2005, 08:16 AM
just curious what most people would compare the vantage rackets to in terms of how they feel. does it feel like prestige, 200G, pro staff, pog, etc...?

LafayetteHitter
07-08-2005, 01:18 AM
Well as far as the sweetspot, I am using the Vantage 90" racquet with unique code 1 1 1 1 13 and I have found it to have a very nice sized sweetspot. I played quite a bit with the RDX 500 mid last year and it is definately in the same category as far as the stringbed goes. I would say it's quite a bit more solid cutting through the ball compared to the RDX 500 as well but others may not find the same results. I have only hit with the racquet strung with the Vantage string and also Sensation 17g but will string one of mine with a gut hybrid this week. I find occasionally on serves if you strike the ball in the upper hoop area of the stringbed it will have just a bit of harshness to it but I strike the ball well so it's not a problem and gut will be an experiment to see if it helps this. There are a bunch of good racquets available and the Vantage happens to be one of them and it does everything well for me. It's definately for people that know what they want in a racquet and have particular specs that work for them, from there you have to try the racquet and see if the feel is for you. I am not sure if it could be compared to the Prestige classic per say as the Prestige has a unique feel. I have not hit with the 200g enough to compare it well. I have found my racquet to be very solid on impact and the frame seems to crave heavy balls coming from my opponents. It is a powerful racquet for a 90" frame with such headlight specs so that is something to keep in mind for someone hoping for a lower powered frame. Just a little update....

BLiND
07-08-2005, 01:37 AM
Yeah pretty much what lafa says... its hard to compaire, its got its own feel. Compaired to RDX its stiffer in the throwt, but flexier in the head. Not played with the Dunlop though.

stevewcosta
07-08-2005, 09:10 AM
Is this 90 sq. in Vantage at 11.7 unstrung,63 flex, 9 pt. HL, 16X18 really solid or does it have the hollow feel many frames have? For example, I find the RDX Mid too light & hollow/lacking feel, operative word here is "I". Thanks.

LafayetteHitter
07-08-2005, 09:15 AM
Well my racquet is the 12pts headlight spec. I would venture to say there is nothing hollow about this racquet and it's about as far from tinny as you can get. I play with no dampener and it takes a solid slice through the ball reminding me of my Prestige classic. It has the feel of a classic/old school racquet imo. Let me add this as well, my stringer who has played for 25 years and has used the PS85 forever switched to the Ncode 90 last year. I brought him the Vantage to be strung and when he held it he said "this is how a racquet is supposed to feel, it just feels right" then asked "after I string it can I hit with it" which he has never asked me about any of my racquets before. After playing a match and giving a lesson with my racquet he called and asked for more info on it and actually decided to make the switch which surprised me quite a bit. So I guess this particular racquet will appeal to some of the players using these mid sized racquets which is a limited group so it's nice to have an additional choice in this range.

stevewcosta
07-08-2005, 10:25 AM
Thanks LafayetteHitter. Sounds awesome. Is the demo process easy? anyone tried to demo these? Thanks.

BHud
07-08-2005, 10:39 AM
The demo process is actually a generous refund policy. Given that each type of Vantage has its own range of unique specs, it would be hard to have a demo program for all the models.

From experience, I can say that they process returns promptly, but you will have to pay shipping and accept an amount less than what you originally paid for it depending on its condition.

LafayetteHitter
07-08-2005, 10:54 AM
When I ordered my racquets I found out that there will be something interesting happening very soon for the company that will help the users like us from the US.

Ruuzo
07-08-2005, 11:08 AM
well...don't keep us in suspense! what is happening?

NoBadMojo
07-08-2005, 11:24 AM
how dramatic Lafayette !

Rory G
07-08-2005, 12:58 PM
I believe that distribution will be available in US. Helps with shipping costs at a minimum.

LafayetteHitter
07-08-2005, 02:33 PM
I did not realize it had been announced yet. But yes it looks like there will be a US source now. Maybe TW will work out a deal as well, it would be nice to order my Vantage overgrips, grips, grommets etc from TW.

MTChong
07-08-2005, 05:19 PM
Wow, that would be cool in case I decide to buy some more. The 90s I got are nice, but I haven't hit enough with them yet so I'll write a review soon. They seem rather low powered though, or maybe it's the strings.

BreakPoint
07-08-2005, 09:10 PM
It wouldn't surprise me if Vantage was able to work out some sort of distribution deal with TW. ;)

erw325
07-08-2005, 10:33 PM
I've been using the the Vantage 321203 with 100 sq. in. with RA 63, strung with Lux Alu-Power for the last 6 months. Very nice control and serving racquet.

Two weeks ago, I ordered my second Vantage racquet. The 322206 vantage racquet with 100 sq. in. and RA 70. My new vantage racquet have more pop, above average control and with very nice serving racquet as well. With RA 70 i did not notice any elbow problem.

In my second time order, I include the 6 pack Vantage tennis bag which is very spacious, lots of zippered compartments and made of high quality material. Paul also gave me free Vantage T-shirt, umbrella, strings, wristband plus discount. According to Paul, he is giving away the free stuff for second time around order.

Nice racquet and excellent customer support.

Coda
07-08-2005, 10:58 PM
if Vantage hooks up with TW, Vantage would have a serious shot at big time success.

bdaniels
07-08-2005, 11:14 PM
i wouldn't buy a vantage simply because they knock on "name brands" and then turn around and charge 2x more than them...pretty stupid if you ask me. It's the same thing that happens in any boutique market, knock on the big guys then charge 2-3x more and claim that you have superior build quality because you are "small".

BreakPoint
07-08-2005, 11:37 PM
i wouldn't buy a vantage simply because they knock on "name brands" and then turn around and charge 2x more than them...pretty stupid if you ask me. It's the same thing that happens in any boutique market, knock on the big guys then charge 2-3x more and claim that you have superior build quality because you are "small".

??????? A Vantage custom built racquet is about $100 with the standard discount in a package deal (2 racquets, 6-pack bag, 6 sets of strings, supply of overgrips). A LM Prestige from TW is $200. How is the Vantage 2-3x more? It's actually half the price of the LM Prestige. In other words, the "name brands" non-custom, mass market racquets cost 2x more!

Coda
07-09-2005, 08:05 AM
BP, is that package deal advertised on the site/how much is it?

BreakPoint
07-09-2005, 09:18 AM
BP, is that package deal advertised on the site/how much is it?

Yes, go to package deals on the home page and select the 2 racquet deal with 6 pack bag, strings, grips. Don't forget to select US$ as your currency choice and put in for your 15% discount. Remember that the value of the bag, strings, and grips is about $100.

NoBadMojo
07-09-2005, 09:40 AM
Hi Coda..i guess you know the specs that are perfect for your game otherwise you may not be considering V******. That being the case, why dont you take advantage of the TW racquet finder while you are visiting the TW forum sometime and enter your target specs into the TW racquet finder and I am sure it will provide you with a number of frames perfectly suited for your needs all available at TW and you will have far more choices for ball feel, stiffnesses and so forth than you could from V*****. Then you could use TW's inexpensive demo program and demo a few farmes and select the right frame for you based upon actual play rather than specs. wow these V***** sticks are now down to 100 clams after starting out being in the $200's? I'd be pretty hacked off if i paid over $200 for one of these puppies.

BHud
07-09-2005, 10:49 AM
This is interesting...let's all pile on Vantage because TW doesn't carry them...if we stick with this line of thinking, then we shouldn't have been talking about Volkl several years back when they had a strict ban on internet sales (I guess NBMJ would have had to learn German so he could participate on their message boards)...or Fischer - TW didn't carry them for a while either.

Well guess what. The impact of our "premature" (that's different from immature J D) discussions may have helped bring those sticks to TW, and thus made them available to a whole new group of buyers. In the meantime, TW still benefited from the web traffic...after all, didn't people still need socks, shoes, balls, strings, shirts, shorts, etc.

Enough is enough...I see this as a win-win for all invloved (and some great entertainment as well!)

Rory G
07-09-2005, 10:55 AM
Coda, the Vantage sticks are definitely worth a try, along with any others in your target range. Breakpoint is correct. The frames are about $187 for a single frame with the discount. If you choose to buy a 2 racquet deal including a thermobag, strings, overgrips, etc. the price will go down to the low $100's if you deduct a value for the extra items. As most people know, this is pretty similar to any business that offers a discount for a multi or package order. . Good luck!

NoBadMojo
07-09-2005, 11:02 AM
totally unrelated and a totally diferent circumstance set BHud

Coda
07-09-2005, 11:14 AM
nobad, you seem to have your panties stuck in a bunch about vantage again...calm down

Coda
07-09-2005, 11:21 AM
is there a code I have to put in as my referral code to get the 15% off?

DoubleHanded&LovinIt
07-09-2005, 11:41 AM
TK01 is the discount code.

BHud, some very good points.

NBMJ, you are a great asset to this community. You may have a point. But so does BHud. You guys should discuss how circumstances were any different.

BLiND
07-09-2005, 11:48 AM
Coda's right, NBM seems to have a right knott

NoBadMojo
07-09-2005, 12:47 PM
i've merely pointed out to Coda that the TWracquet finder is a valuable too that TW has provided in case Coda was unaware. and there is no need to discuss with BHud how the circumstance differs as there really isnt anything even related..no basis for discussion..a total stretch. i'm not jammed up abaout anything..just when posters come on here and say things like Vantage frames are only a hundred bucks now and such, it is fair for a poster to come in and voice his/her opinion. i'm very calm..i'm not upset at all, but you all can assume anything you like, so i suggest maybe you all might consider calming down ok? thanks, and have a nice day

Tennis Philosopher
07-09-2005, 01:06 PM
To Coda, BHud, Nobadmojo, et.al

RacquetMaxx, one of the premier racquet customizers and stringers in the US, are now assembling the racquets for Vantage for distribution here. After you order on Vantage's website, you can talk to Richard and he will give you more options for weights and balances so that you'll have many more possibilities but the two stiffness options remain the same at this time. RacquetMaxx also said before that they entered into this relationship, they had tested the racquets in-house extensively and were very impressed. Richard also said that all racquets before being shipped are tested on a Babolat rda machine to ensure very tight tolerances according to your desired specifications and in the case of multiple racquet orders, they are matched to the highest industry standards.

Nobadmojo:

Order 4 racquets from Wilson, Head, or even your well respected Volkyl, and I think you will find that only with luck would they be remotely acceptably matched. This has been my experience and most of my friend's experiences. If Vantage does what they say they can do, they are fulfilling a serious need of the serious tennis player. If you don't think constantly putting lead tape and constantly calibrating your racquet is an inconvenience to say the least then I guess any racquet with any strings would suffice for you.

DoubleHanded&LovinIt
07-09-2005, 01:16 PM
and there is no need to discuss with BHud how the circumstance differs as there really isnt anything even related..no basis for discussion..a total stretch.

Come on, NBMJ. No basis for discussion at all? You can't even begin to discuss how the situation is so dramatically different? If in fact the cases are so different, couldn't you make a couple of quick and obvious points about how the situation are different?

Really, I do think you are a great poster. And you may have some points about Vantage unethically using this message board. However, ethics are a difficult thing to argue over. I'm asking you to debate with BHud how the circumstances are different. Debating this topic is much more straight-forward than debating ethics.

It'd be unfortunate if you just shut down the conversation at this point because it reflects to me, and perhaps other posters, that you're feelings toward Vantage are rooted in closed-mindedness.

NoBadMojo
07-09-2005, 01:20 PM
thats not true TPhilosopher....the last time I had Volkls swingweighted, i had 4 of them done and from low to high was a 3-4 swingweight point difference which is very difficult for anyone to notice. occasionally i will get one frame from them which feels differently (last time that one had slightly different graphics) and i'll just sell it off rather than try and get it to feel exactly like the others, but normally i dont even bother measuring my frames from volkl..i just put leather on them and off i go. by the way i seem to be able to notice very small changes in balance and swingweight. i likely dont appreciate your slam especially after me complimenting you earlier, and you dont know anything about my abilities or credentials. but i do agree with you that wilson and head have terrible tolerances for the most part even frames comng from the Wilson 'pro room'. so how about i suggest you order 4 frames from volkl since i dont think you've ever done that before and then measure them and post your results..then you can speak from experience..otherwise you're just making noise.

BLiND
07-09-2005, 01:23 PM
Considering all you were doing was merely pointed out to Coda that the TWracquet finder is a valuable too that TW has provided in case Coda was unaware, you post was very long... are you sure you have no alterior motive?

NoBadMojo
07-09-2005, 02:08 PM
not that i owe you an explanation blind, but none other than to point out the TW finder and me being of the opinion that the TW forum is NOT the place to promote Vantage racquets..other people feel the same. i could ask why you always <seem to> appear in vantage threads, but i really dont care why, so maybe YOU shouldnt get your shorts all in a bunch about me eh?

NoBadMojo
07-09-2005, 03:07 PM
TPhilosopher thanks for the breaking news about the RacquetMaxx affiliation. i dont suppose you young grasshopper would somehow be involved w. RacquetMaxx since you are here extolling the virtues of these Vantage frames with no swingweights and how it is absolutely critical frames be exactly matched..small coincidence that's what RacquetMaxx seems to do. out of curiosity I went to RacquetMaxx dot com and discovered they have a tennis talk forum there so now all the Vantage pundents have the right venue to post their Vantage experience in and they wont have to feel guilty about causing TW to lose any sales at all. if you go to the forum you will see not so many posts there, and most of them like this one from some dude named Vantage Tom...gee i wonder who this person could be..couldnt be our very own TommyGun now could it? especially since he always proclaimed he was not involved w. Vantage. cant be because check out this guys signature, and our TommyGun would never deceive people. here is what he wrote at the RcquetMaxx forum back in April <snip>
Vantage Tom



Joined: 22 Apr 2005
Posts: 7
Location: United Kingdom and New Jersey, USA
Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 1:46 am Post subject: WHY DON'T YOU CUSTOMIZE YOUR FRAMES?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For years most of us have always known that customized frames are really the best for our games, at all levels. Yes, great racquet techs were hard to come by, but now there are a lot of good shops, like RacquettMAXX here.

What is it that keeps you from customizing your frames?
Price?
Not sure what is right for you?
Never thought about it?

I'd love to know.

I've used customized and weight/balance matched frames since the early 1980's.
_________________
Tom K.
Vantage Sport International
"It Just Got Personal"
<end snip>

BLiND
07-09-2005, 03:18 PM
NBM like I said, I really like the Vantage racquets i hit with, therefore I like to give my experiences to people who are interested in the frames... the same reason I <seem to> appear in threads about Head Prestige, or RDX, or Diablo, or X1... do you get the point?... I like the racquets therefore I am enthusiastic about them.

So, since I am trying to help those who have expressed interest in some racquets, what is it that you are trying to do?

Tennis Philosopher
07-09-2005, 03:28 PM
thats not true TPhilosopher....the last time I had Volkls swingweighted, i had 4 of them done and from low to high was a 3-4 swingweight point difference which is very difficult for anyone to notice. occasionally i will get one frame from them which feels differently (last time that one had slightly different graphics) and i'll just sell it off rather than try and get it to feel exactly like the others, but normally i dont even bother measuring my frames from volkl..i just put leather on them and off i go. by the way i seem to be able to notice very small changes in balance and swingweight. i likely dont appreciate your slam especially after me complimenting you earlier, and you dont know anything about my abilities or credentials. but i do agree with you that wilson and head have terrible tolerances for the most part even frames comng from the Wilson 'pro room'. so how about i suggest you order 4 frames from volkl since i dont think you've ever done that before and then measure them and post your results..then you can speak from experience..otherwise you're just making noise.


I have played mostly with Wilson, with Volkl - only for two weeks two years ago. Volkl had fair quality control but still better than Wilson. It was just not for me as I hated the handle. I cannot just plug in the specs at TW's "racquet finder" and find a match but I can for Vantage. Just the fact that they offer four different kinds of grips fills a unique need. They should commended for this. The fact that they have partnered with such a reputable shop at RacquetMaxx should also be applauded. If I try to call Wilson, I will be prompted to leave a message that is never returned. I suspect that the same holds true for the other mass producers including Volkl. They promulgate pseudo-new technologies to make their old-new product obsolete. Where are their ethics with the rampant use of paint jobs with the pros? If you email Vantage they respond promptly and RacquetMaxx will discuss your needs with you at length. Vantage saw a need and a better way of doing things. For this they should be admired not criticized. Before I go to bed tonight, I will say my prayers and thank God for Vantage, Paul, and Racquet Design and ask him to forgive the angry infidel apologists for the impersonal major players.

J D
07-09-2005, 03:31 PM
Those of you that think I've been unreasonable in the past may not even realize that, out of consideration for other board members, I've been letting the bigger issue slide.

3. No promotion or advertising of Tennis Warehouse competitors allowed. This is our message board and we pay to maintain it. If you want to discuss a competitor, please be respectful of our request and do this privately, not on Talk Tennis.What so many on here seem so slow to realize is that Vantage IS a TW competitor. Since Vantage not only manufactures (sort of) frames but sells them direct to market, this makes them a new frame retailer. Their attempt at price reductions only cements the fact that they are targeting the new frame retail market which is TW's bread and butter.

Those that discuss Vantage here are being inconsiderate of our hosts. They are putting TW in the no-win position of having to be rude to them and a potential future business partner (Vantage) or to lose many thousands of dollars worth of business. If Talk Tennis goes away, it will be because of those of you that insist on breaking board rules and costing TW business in blatant disregard of their most reasonable request. Really, if you want to talk about Vantage, which is understandable, why don't you follow TW's suggestion and just take it somewhere else?

NoBadMojo
07-09-2005, 04:00 PM
Blind what i am now trying to do is ignore your badgering of me, since this has already been discussed.

Tennis Philosopher
07-09-2005, 04:11 PM
To JD:

I assume you are all adults and older than this young grasshopper but you adults can also really complicate things. After having being made aware of "BIG BROTHER" TW's regulations, I have one observation and one suggestion. I think there is a not too subtle difference between one who posts on the forum where we can find Super-Hype Poor Quality racquet companies new hi-tech do everything for everyone racquet for 10 dollars less than TW's price and a post that delineates and dicusses a service and a product that TW doesn't offer. Furthermore, if Vantage racquets becomes a quick growth long-term racquet manifacturer if TW bans Vantage discussion perhaps one of TW's competitors would be offered exclusive online distribution rights. But the real solution to whether we should be posting about a non-direct competitor to TW should be asked to them directly. Allow them to make a proclamation on this matter once and for all and not allow self-appointed free speech repressors to tell us what we can and can't discuss. Again, I think TW is too shrewd to stifle our free speech.

NoBadMojo
07-09-2005, 04:15 PM
ya man TP..some people dont like the Volkl handle shape just as some dont like the other brands..i didnt like it at first years ago when i started using Volkl. i had two choices...customize the grip shape which is easy to do for most people, or just make an adjustment to it thinking that just maybe i am a good enough player to do that. i decided to make the adjustment and now other gripshapes feel funny to me and as it turned out i think the grip gave me a better platform for my serve and for my volley anyway, but as a beter player i think i could pretty easily adapt to most any grip shape. by the way i have found a way to alter the volkl handle shape to boxier that works very well and is very easy and allows you to keep the orignal bevels intact and adds very miniscule weight....if anyone isnt using volkl because of the handle shape you can either adjust or easily change the shape and i would be happy to walk you through the procedure..it's easy

MTChong
07-09-2005, 05:48 PM
I don't know if you could call them a competitor if they aren't even selling the same racquets at a lower price or anything like that...

tom4ny
07-09-2005, 06:03 PM
the vast majority of the tennis playing public do just fine with the major brands and play them stock.

peace out

Tennis Philosopher
07-09-2005, 06:19 PM
ya man TP..some people dont like the Volkl handle shape just as some dont like the other brands..i didnt like it at first years ago when i started using Volkl. i had two choices...customize the grip shape which is easy to do for most people, or just make an adjustment to it thinking that just maybe i am a good enough player to do that. i decided to make the adjustment and now other gripshapes feel funny to me and as it turned out i think the grip gave me a better platform for my serve and for my volley anyway, but as a beter player i think i could pretty easily adapt to most any grip shape. by the way i have found a way to alter the volkl handle shape to boxier that works very well and is very easy and allows you to keep the orignal bevels intact and adds very miniscule weight....if anyone isnt using volkl because of the handle shape you can either adjust or easily change the shape and i would be happy to walk you through the procedure..it's easy


Nobadmojo, thanks for the kind offer of customizing Volkl handles. But, I really prefer no frills non-muted racquets. I think I will be breaking my piggy bank and taking the heretical step of ordering three custom (or if you prefer the term semi-custom) racquets from Vantage. After about a month of playtime, I will post my opinions good, bad, or indifferent.

BHud
07-09-2005, 06:39 PM
NBMJ...not interested in a debate, but rather an explanation of why you feel the Volkl and Fischer situations were so different that it doesn't merit a response. We're still talking about an open discussion on the TW message boards about racquets that aren't available through TW at that particular point on time. I was simply pointing out that in the end, as far as the Volkl and Fischer situations go, all parties ended up on the same page and we - the consumers - were better off because of it.

I agree, Vantage isn't for everyone and maybe the company shouldn't have posted anonymously, BUT...wouldn't we all be better off if TW carried Vantage in additon to their already broad range of racquets?

I'm not abig fan of Head racquets, but I can't imagine that some loyal followers of the Prestige wouldn't mind tweaking some of the specs...say a 16x19 string pattern instead of 18x20. Vantage seems to be offering this type of customization. Is it at the same level of fine tuning that Federer, Roddick, or many of the other professionals get...heck no!...but can you imagine how much that would cost for average bozos like us who play tennis strictly for the enjoyment of the sport.

I personally think Vantage has a great concept...as more people post, maybe they will eventually be able to distribute through TW...a win for all involved.

Let's all get off our high horses...I'm for freedom of choice...preferably through TW who I really enjoy doing business with.

TommyGun
07-09-2005, 06:42 PM
For you Ed, no I'm not the guy on the RacquetMAXX site, and I believe that someone here in another post mentioned the guys name was Tom Kosinski. I believe that he might be the first US Vantage guy. I seem to remember a conversation with Racketdesign where he mentioned there was a Vantage guy in NJ.

Either way, after reading all this conspiracy crap, I think I'll take a sabbatical and a large bathroom break from this board for a while. I have better things to do with my time. Either way, it looks like Vantage has enough fans here that one taking a leave won't hurt.

I'll chime in from time to time if people need me. But I'll leave the board to you Ed, and you, JD. Keep you noses clean, or the rest of the guys here will make sure you do...

Cavaleer
07-09-2005, 06:51 PM
Back to the main topic....these sticks...


What are they made of? Graphite? Kevlar? What? Has anyone hit with them head-to-head with the nCode 90, or the various Head products? If so, what were their experiences?

And as for the good folks at TW, I'll ask them if and when they plan to carry Vantage products. With enough queries and requests they'll see the demand and respond accordingly. I'm sure they could duplicate Vantage's customability with a little tech-tweaking. I've seen the site. It's not that difficult.

Hopefully this will force the mass producers to finally use the internet for what's it's really worth-- direct customer input and personalization, instead of just pointless advertising and product promotion.

If a small company like Vantage can do this, why can't Wilson or Head? They should have thought of this a long time ago, to be honest. Obviously, they would have to make some changes in their manufacturing processes but if enough people show interest in Vantage's products and system, they'll see the light.




Cavaleer

Vantage231511
07-09-2005, 07:32 PM
Geez Tommygun, don't go! Thanks Ed, thanks JD, what a bunch of righteous A$%^&*s you are.

Oh, JD, Vantage isn't really a competitor, because TW is a tennis retailer, with more then just frames. Vantage is just one frame manufacturer. Heck, TW themselves posted an interview with Mr. Kuebler. Kuebler has their own tennis racquet line, not carried here. I think TW would prefer you don't mention Holadbird or any of the other retailers who mass mail your email accounts because you stopped by the site once or twice.

J D
07-09-2005, 08:42 PM
Vantage231511, I'll explain it one more time. When a manufacturer goes direct to market, they also become a retailer. Now that Vantage is selling new frames in the $100 to $200 dollar range, how can you say that they are not a competitor to another company that mainly sells new frames in the $100 to $200 range, just because they have a different name stamped on them? Vantage is much more than a manufacturer, and that's if you can even call them a manufacturer. Technically they aren't, they are a retailer of Chinese manufactured frames that they customize.

For the record, I never asked for Racketdesign or TG to leave the board, only to leave the Vantage threads alone to normal customers. Now others have taken their place by making claims about Vantage that seem like commercials:if you search you'll find that only positive reviews are posted about any of the vantage rackets regardless of specs.This is massively untrue. One player reported arm pain. Two people said they didn't like their Vantage. A couple more said they were average and overpriced. One said his felt "hollow" and "tinny." Several people have said their Vantages were stiff and two have used the word "harsh." Now, does that sound like all positive reviews? I'm not trying to bad mouth Vantage, let's just keep it real. There are positive and negative comments about every frame on this board.

Of course, if TW carries Vantage, then this situation will become completely different. However, it's highly unlikely that this would be economically feasible in the near future, so don't hold your breath. In the meantime, guys, we should show a little respect to the owners of the board. And, if you can't help yourself and you're going to break the rules anyway, at least don't be so over the top while you're doing it.

BreakPoint
07-09-2005, 09:27 PM
J D,
Isn't it obvious to you that TW is planning on carrying Vantage soon? Can't you read between the lines? Why do you think TW is keeping all of these Vantage threads around, keeping all of Racketdesign's posts around, but deleting YOUR anti-Vantage and anti-Racketdesign posts? Come on, even you should be able to see that, can't you?

J D
07-09-2005, 10:19 PM
Breakpoint, perhaps you should read the writing. Would TG be leaving if a TW-Vantage alliance was imminent? Wouldn't Paul be on here right now if there was a deal in the making? Do a search on my posts. Only one thread got deleted. Everything else negative I've ever said about Vantage and Paul (Racketdesign) in the past is still here.

I'm guessing you don't know much about business. If Vantage has a large enough profit margin to wholesale their frames to a retailer, then they were foolish to ever sell them for way over $200. The standard business model is to come in priced low with a new product or service and then increase the price once name recognition, reputation, and a market niche have been established. I guess it's possible that TW might start carrying Vantage's three basic models at some point in the future, but I still doubt that Vantage has enough profit margin even on those to cut in a middle man at this point. Also, it is unusual, although not unheard of, for a direct to market company to be carried through standard retail outlets.

Coda
07-09-2005, 10:26 PM
If TW didn't appreciate the Vantage discussion they would have deleted the Vantage posts and have created a sticky post or something. I highly doubt that because we are talking about a competitor(whom they allow us to talk about anyway) they will shut the boards down completely like JD thinks.

Why don't they shut down every post referring to Estusas or Asian Wilsons or Donnays etc etc?

NoBadMojo
07-09-2005, 10:47 PM
yes..good idea for you to vacate this place tommy gun..i think the board will be ok without you, or me,..just must be an unusual coincidence that both of you are from new jersey, are nammed tommy, and just happen to be over the top promoting vantage at every tennis site known to mankind

BreakPoint
07-09-2005, 11:13 PM
J D,
Why would TommyGun leaving have anything to do with a TW-Vantage alliance? He doesn't work for Vantage, remember? Why would he have any knowledge of any alliance?

And why would Paul be on here talking about an alliance before anything is actually launched? Do Wall Street investment bankers go onto a public Internet message board to talk about a potential merger before a deal is done?

Vantage initially priced their custom racquets at 130 pounds, which is the same price that the average off-the-shelf brand name racquets cost in the U.K. Vantage does not control international currency exchange rates. It was the weak US dollar and the fact that racquets are generally cheaper here than in most other parts of the world that made Vantage seem comparatively expensive here. They have since addressed that issue.

I don't know much about business? Excuse me, and please give me a minute as I go and LMAO!!!! CEO's come to me to evaluate their businesses.

BTW, pricing a product too low initially can also backfire and give the impression of low quality and lack of exclusivity. I think Vantage wants to maintain an image of high quality (in both products and service), and exclusivity for the serious player, not a mass-market product to be sold at Wal-Mart. BTW, did Prada, Gucci, Louis Vuitton, and Manolo Blahnik use low pricing as a market entry strategy? I don't recall Volkl, Fischer, nor Babolat doing that either.

Coda
07-09-2005, 11:18 PM
those fashion companies are successful only because of the high prices that shows their exclsuvitiy of such products(sidenote)...much like babolat with trying to show the skill it adds to a player.

NoBadMojo
07-10-2005, 07:21 AM
i agree with Breakpoint..it is really lousy marketing to come into the marketplace high and then later lower prices. thats from marketing101. you need to come in value priced and then raise your prices as you can once you establish some sort of customer base. seems to me Vantage came in initialy at over 200US, and now you purport their pricing to be 100bucks a frame if you buy two frames. that seems to me to be the total opposite of what you say good companies should do, and even more direct competiton with TW than at first..kinda make you wonder if these companies are just being greedy and trying to garner slam dunk profit margin because if they can throw in enough 'free' stuff to make the effectve price 100, they are really gougng at in excess of 200. i know i would be really hacked off if i paid more than 200 for one of these frames and now you can get them for 100...i also think TW should be given a cut of all sales V***** acquired by raiding the TW board..maybe in the area of 20% would be fair....i dont think the exchange rate has changed THAT much if much at all over this short period of time. but who can disagree with breakpoint the exhalted consultant to the stars.

BreakPoint
07-10-2005, 09:34 AM
The prices for the package deals are a limited time promotion. The pricing will probably not stay that low forever. They want to try and get some more users to spread the good word about Vantage. When they originally priced the racquet at 130 pounds, they were basing it on U.K. market conditions and competiton. They did not predict that the US dollar would drop like a brick in the meantime. They are now addressing that issue. Like I said, Vantage cannot control the exchange rate. The price drop is not just due to the more favorable exchange rate, although it certainly doesn't hurt.

Lots of people don't mind paying more for a brand new product that initially is introduced to the market. They want to be the first on their block to have one. If they felt $200 was worth it for them then, they'd think $100 is even more worth it for them now and will likely pick up a few more frames. Just look at what some new hot cars demand on the market. Dealers are able to charge $5,000, even $10,000 over sticker for certain hot cars when they are first introduced to the market. These pricing premiums, however, almost never last. However, people are willing to pay them just to be the first to have the car. It happened with the Miata, the Mecedes SL, the Chrysler 300, Toyota Prius, etc. Dealers were selling the PT Cruiser for over $25,000 a few years ago. Now they can't give them away for $15,000. I don't think many of the owners are too upset that they bought the car years ago since they got the car first.

People know prices change. Are all the people that bought LM Radicals at $180 upset that they now go for $130? Probably not. They're probably happy because they can now pick up a few more at the lower price.

bdaniels
07-10-2005, 09:50 AM
??????? A Vantage custom built racquet is about $100 with the standard discount in a package deal (2 racquets, 6-pack bag, 6 sets of strings, supply of overgrips). A LM Prestige from TW is $200. How is the Vantage 2-3x more? It's actually half the price of the LM Prestige. In other words, the "name brands" non-custom, mass market racquets cost 2x more!

My mistake then...when i looked into Vantage racquet's it said they were 130+ pounds...translate that out to american dollars it comes up to 2 something.

Edit: Ok, no I'm not mistaken, go to vantage's website and look at the pre-built racquet's. Price: 130.00

BLiND
07-10-2005, 10:44 AM
bdaniels you need to select US Dollars, not UK Pounds... you not in the UK!

BreakPoint
07-10-2005, 02:41 PM
You also have to select one of the package deals and then enter your 15% discount code on top of that. All said and done, it's about $300 for 2 racquets, 6-pack termal bag, 6 sets strings, and supply of overgrips. The extras are worth about $100 which makes each racquet cost about $100 each.

BDAZ
07-11-2005, 04:22 AM
just curious, but if TW really cared about Vantage as a competitor, don't you think that they'd either edit out portions of these posts or delete them altogether? for christ's sake, if TW doesn't care, why the **** does everyone else?

BHud
07-11-2005, 04:39 AM
What's the record for number of posts on a thread...we've got to be closing in on the mark?

Coda
07-11-2005, 10:49 AM
the pictures thread in odds and ends is up near the triple digits in terms of pages...so this still has a ways to go

BLiND
07-11-2005, 01:07 PM
damn well never get it that long

Kirko
07-11-2005, 03:34 PM
I think vantage is "abandon ship" from dunlop&slazenger group. I can't find Slazenger rackets only golf. The place I get my rackets strung has "dumped" them, no one ever asks there rackets or requests them. Just a thought.

GuyPerez
07-11-2005, 03:43 PM
Kirko,
Are you suggesting that Vantage frames are Slazenger left over stock??? I know for sure that is not true. You can still get Slaz from TW http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/descpageRCSLAZ-SX1.html
and I got an X4 from overseas.

The Vantage owner used to work for Dunlop though.

BLiND
07-12-2005, 02:53 AM
lol Kirko thats a funny throught... however Vantage racquets are different in so many ways from Slaz/Dunlop.

For a start they have their own unique beam cross-section.

wtennis206
07-12-2005, 05:41 AM
What's the record for number of posts on a thread...we've got to be closing in on the mark?
1,669 and counting

Kirko
07-12-2005, 12:51 PM
Kirko,
Are you suggesting that Vantage frames are Slazenger left over stock??? I know for sure that is not true. You can still get Slaz from TW http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/descpageRCSLAZ-SX1.html
and I got an X4 from overseas.

The Vantage owner used to work for Dunlop though.
No not left over stock. The guys who designed frames and all of that decided to "break out" on their own; could be a smart move its been done in other comapnies.

GuyPerez
07-12-2005, 12:59 PM
Kirko,
Sorry. I misunderstood.

BLiND
07-12-2005, 11:57 PM
Is this the longest post yet?

LafayetteHitter
07-13-2005, 12:11 AM
Has anyone here tried some gut hybrids or full gut jobs in a Vantage. I will be stringing one of my racquets with BDE Perf 17 in the mains and Gosen og sheep micro 17 in the crosses on Friday.

BLiND
07-13-2005, 12:45 AM
I've not, only tried Vantage strings and Luxilon hybrid.

Let us know how you get on with your string combination.

Coda
07-13-2005, 08:03 AM
As soon as mine come in the mail I'm taking the vantage string out and sticking some tonic in there.

BreakPoint
07-13-2005, 10:39 AM
So you finally ordered some, huh, Coda? Did you go for the 2 racquet + 6 pack bag package deal? What custom spec did you order?

monologuist
07-13-2005, 10:50 AM
I've tried a gut hybrid of Klip Legend 17 mains and Gosen OG Sheep Micro 17 crosses.....SWEET setup for my Vantage (100",11.4 oz./12 pts.HL unstrung, 27.5", 63RA) Gut or gut hybrid is a perfect match for Vantage if you can handle the power... I am going to do a 180 next, and try a Lux ALU mains/Gut crosses hybrid next to see if I can get even more spin and control than I already do! I've found this kind of hybrid to work well in the past as long as the frame is not too stiff to begin with.

Rory G
07-13-2005, 11:03 AM
mono...FYI I hit with a Vantage similar to your stick (except 27") with an ALU main/gut cross hybrid. Fantastic setup that I am going to try on my new racquets as well. Great spin/action on my shots and very good pop. Its well worth giving a go!!

bdaniels
07-13-2005, 11:42 AM
Kirko,
Are you suggesting that Vantage frames are Slazenger left over stock??? I know for sure that is not true. You can still get Slaz from TW http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/descpageRCSLAZ-SX1.html
and I got an X4 from overseas.

The Vantage owner used to work for Dunlop though.

If you are going to get a Slazenger go to ********* (if there's one in your area), they sell the same one on TW for $99.99

BreakPoint
07-13-2005, 11:47 AM
bdaniels,
I'd delete that post of yours before the TW moderators do it for you and get you in trouble. You are not allowed to post info about competitors that sell the same racquets that TW does, especially at lower prices!

monologuist
07-13-2005, 12:42 PM
rory....when you tried the ALU/gut hybrid, what tensions did you use, and how did they compare to the tensions you'd use for a multi? I initially tried my Vantage with Laserfibre Supreme 17 (a multi that holds tension exceptionally well) at about 62 lbs. and that was just about right. Given that, I'm wondering what would be a good tension for the ALU/gut hybrid to achieve a similar power level (and taking into consideration the inevitable tension drop of the ALU)...

LafayetteHitter
07-13-2005, 12:43 PM
Mono, how would you compare LF supreme in the Vantage against the feel of the Vantage string?

Coda
07-13-2005, 01:05 PM
BP, yes, I finally ordered a pair. I did get the package deal that you talked about. My strung specs are basically the same as TW's listed specs for the X1 with the 63 flex instead of the 64 listed for the X1 of course. I needed to get a new pair of rackets anyway, and it was either going to be the 6.0 95 or the X1 but since I learned about the package deal(I also needed a new bag) I decided it was finally financially logical(where's nobad?) to try Vantage.

BreakPoint
07-13-2005, 01:26 PM
Good luck with them, Coda. I know you'll like them! That bag looks real nice in the pic, too. BTW, I find the my Vantage 90 (63) to be a little flexier and a bit more comfortable than the X-1. Let me know how the Vantage 95 plays though, since I've never tried one. I was also thinking of going for that package deal but couldn't decide on the 90 or the 95.

Coda
07-13-2005, 01:32 PM
don't you like your 90" vantage?

LafayetteHitter
07-13-2005, 01:37 PM
I love my 90" Vantage, volleys are unreal the power is awesome for a 90" racquet and the sweetspot is huge, I rarely mishit. The bag is by far the nicest bag I have owned, the quality is second to none the material reminds me of an army bag. Everytime I show up to play someone asks what kind of bag it is. I'll be stringing one of my 90's with a gut hybrid on Friday so i'll update over the weekend.

monologuist
07-13-2005, 01:53 PM
BP, yes, I finally ordered a pair. I did get the package deal that you talked about. My strung specs are basically the same as TW's listed specs for the X1 with the 63 flex instead of the 64 listed for the X1 of course. I needed to get a new pair of rackets anyway, and it was either going to be the 6.0 95 or the X1 but since I learned about the package deal(I also needed a new bag) I decided it was finally financially logical(where's nobad?) to try Vantage.

Coda....I bet you'll like the Vantage even better than the Slaz. It's got more feel, more comfortable, and probably more solid feeling....it will probably be a little less quick at the net; probably higher swingweight...but let us know how it compares when you've got them side by side. When I tried the X-1, it felt related to the Vantage, but the Vantage felt like an improved version of it IMO in most respects, but then again, I don't have a 95" Vantage.

BreakPoint
07-13-2005, 01:53 PM
don't you like your 90" vantage?

Yes, I do. But I'm also curious as to what the 95 plays like, too, since I have been using the PS 6.0 95 for quite some time.

Yeah, if that 6-pack thermal is made anything like the full racquet cover I got with my Vantage 90, I'd agree it's top notch quality. Much better quality than any other cover/bag that I've ever owned. :D

monologuist
07-13-2005, 01:59 PM
Mono, how would you compare LF supreme in the Vantage against the feel of the Vantage string?


The Laserfibre Supreme feels lower-powered, more control, not as mushy, firm but still comfortable, more ball feel, more spin and holds tension better. My only gripe with the Laserfibre is that it moves around a little bit too much, but the pros far outweigh this con. It is an excellent mate with a Vantage IMO. The Gut hybrid feels best of all in the Vantage, but might be too powerful for some, as the Vantages seem to be on the powerful side of the spectrum for player's sticks.

Incidentally, I asked about the estimated swingweight of my Vantage, and was quoted "maybe 340-350". This sounded a little high compared to what my estimate was, based just on feel...I had estimated it to be closer to 330 or so. Just wondering what other people estimated their Vantages swingweights to be (please include your specs). I'm probably gonna repost this as a separate post BTW.

Coda
07-13-2005, 03:29 PM
maybe they should post strung specs w/ SW on their site?

BLiND
07-14-2005, 12:21 AM
Someone said they will be putting swingweight guides on the site... which will be really cool.

BLiND
07-14-2005, 02:15 PM
Comeon we should be beating the thread about poxy wilson pro staff's!

BHud
07-14-2005, 06:48 PM
RacquetMaxx (Vantage's US distributor) indicated today that they would be posting swingweight "ranges" for the various categories of their racquets...obviously there can be a lot of combinations - making it impractical to provide a swingweight for each individual option, so I'm interested in how they classify the various offerings.