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View Full Version : Is the Prince Diablo mp just a shorter version of the POG longbody?


GregOz
06-28-2005, 01:08 AM
A guy at our club is looking to replace his POGOS with something smaller in the Prince line-up. He's real brand loyal and used to use the old 90sq's until going up to the POGOS but feels its too big a head size for him although he loves the POG look and feel. He'd prefer less than 100sq but more than 93sq so he's kind of in a bind (cant get the TT Graphite and hated the Rebel). Also, is the POG really a 93sq or is it 90sq?

So, I was looking through TW's site, just checking out a few frames and noticed the Diablo mp and the POG longbody. Having a look at the specifications I was quite surprised to see how similar the two are. It seemed as though if you removed the extra 1.5 inches swingweight would drop, overall weight would drop and you'd have almost the same racquet.

What do other people think about that? Do you think there'd be a similarity in the way they play and would the only difference in feel be that the POG is more old school? Others seem to suggest the POG midplus and Diablo mid are pretty similar apart from the funky string pattern of the pog. Are the longbody and Diablo mp really close as well?

AndrewD
06-28-2005, 09:50 AM
Greg,
Actually, its quite funny as I feel the Diablo mp is literally the Prince Graphite Comp circa 1982 reincarnated. Same headsize, same flex, a touch lighter and slighly lower swingweight but same power levels and comfort. Anyway, I think someone on the board has suggested the Diablo and POG longbody are quite close in playability but slightly different in feel - modern vs older style.

Z-Man
06-28-2005, 10:08 AM
That might have been me--yes, the specs are very similar, and don't be afraid to saw a little off of the handle of the POG LB--it's really no big deal. The Diablo has some high tech fibers in it that make it a little more muted--more modern feeling. I would go with the Diablo if you like standard length. You won't even notice the extra tiny bit of length at the net, and it will help on serves. (BTW, Diablo MP is awesome at the net.) Only get the POG LB if you want 28in or at least 27.5, which you can cut it to. If you want to go shorter than 27.5, get the Diablo.

Both are great sticks with very consistent response and feel. You know exactly where the ball is going to land. You don't have to worry about suddenly launching one into the fence.

monologuist
06-28-2005, 11:40 AM
the Diablo doesn't have the "crossbar" at the throat....not sure exactly how, but I'm sure this makes a difference in the way it feels. the Longbody feels more flexible and smaller sweetspot than the Diablo MP IMO...higher swingweight too.

MTChong
06-28-2005, 11:42 AM
It's weird, but the Diablo does seem to be a reincarnation of the POG, both the Mid and apparently now, the LB.

backhand
06-28-2005, 01:59 PM
I own an MP, have hit once or twice with a POG. Find the MP to be softer, livelier, better feel and control at the net, better spin on the serve, not as crisp or powerful on groundstrokes, more forgiving. MP seems very sensitive to string, can't speak for POG. MP's a great doubles raquet, good all-court, nothing special from the baseline. So depends on your game, like all racquets.

Z-Man
06-29-2005, 10:28 AM
Monologuist:
How do you like the Vantage? What makes it better than a POG LB cut to 27.5in? Did you order it stiffer? Is the sweet spot bigger?
Thanks,
Z

drak
06-29-2005, 11:48 AM
I played with the Diablo MP for a while - was one of the better serve and volleying frames I have ever used. Just could not hit my groundstrokes well or consistently with this frame - especially my one-handed backhand. I am a 4.5 all court player.

Drak

AndrewD
06-29-2005, 06:00 PM
monologuist,

You cut the longbody back to 27.5 inches, so that must have altered the swingweight quite noticably? Im assuming if you took it down to 27 inches then you'd end up with a swingweight not of 332 but something in the vacinity of the Diablo's 316.

Also, with the crossbar, I would have thought that would make the racquet more stable. So, if the POG longbody and the Diablo spec out almost identically then the longbody would be a bit more stable because of the crossbar. I'm just speculating so feel free to contradict me.

Of course, if you did take it down to 27 inches that would affect the overall weight and you would have lead it back up to get good balance and playability.

Another way to reduce the swingweight and reduce length is to completely remove the butt cap. That will shorten the racquet by between 1/4 to 1/2 an inch depending on the brand. Prince will drop closest to 1/2 and inch while Head will drop closest to a 1/4 inch.

My brother just did that as he was trying to match a POG OS to his old Snauwert Hi-Ten 50 which always ran a little bit shorter than standard. He didn't cut anything off, just removed the butt cap. The actual frame itself, sans butt cap ends up 26.5 inches long. He then wrapped some head tape (just twice around) at the end to create a raised section which would serve as the butt cap but be more comfortable in the hand.

Surprisingly, when compared to two Head frames (a Prestige Pro mid and an LM Prestige mid) the Prince is naturally shorter by close to a 1/4 inch. Compared to an old Prince Classic it's exactly the same length -26.5.

So, you could cut back to 27.5, remove the butt cap and you'd have a standard 27 inch racquet. That would lower the swingweight - Id think 1/2 an inch and no butt cap would drop it to around 320 or so-, and lower the overall weight.

krnboijunsung
06-29-2005, 07:13 PM
I think the Diablo is a hipper version of the POG. El Diablo.

bhs
06-29-2005, 07:24 PM
I was talking to a prince rep at my club and he said the diablo is the pog without the crossbar

monologuist
06-29-2005, 08:15 PM
[QUOTE=AndrewD]monologuist,

You cut the longbody back to 27.5 inches, so that must have altered the swingweight quite noticably? Im assuming if you took it down to 27 inches then you'd end up with a swingweight not of 332 but something in the vacinity of the Diablo's 316.

Also, with the crossbar, I would have thought that would make the racquet more stable. So, if the POG longbody and the Diablo spec out almost identically then the longbody would be a bit more stable because of the crossbar. I'm just speculating so feel free to contradict me.

Of course, if you did take it down to 27 inches that would affect the overall weight and you would have lead it back up to get good balance and playability.


yes I cut mine down to 27.5"...the swingweight dropped a little, probably to the 320-325 range....I liked it better this way for th emost part, except it was less stable , so I added some lead at 3 and 9, bringing the swingweight back up to the 330 range....this also increased the sweetspot, but I lost mobility and headspeed.....in the end, the racquet was too demanding for me....

yes the crossbar would if anything increase stability...it's hard to compare the 2 straight up b/c of all the discrepancies in length and swingweight....bottom line is I felt with both frames that I couldn't find the right combinaton of lead customizing/stability/maneuverability so I moved on....in particular with the Longbody, even with lead, I wasn't hitting the sweetspot with regularity enough, and didn't generate enough power to keep my shots deep consistently....it was just too flexy.

monologuist
06-29-2005, 08:25 PM
Monologuist:
How do you like the Vantage? What makes it better than a POG LB cut to 27.5in? Did you order it stiffer? Is the sweet spot bigger?
Thanks,
Z

My Vantage does have a sweetspot that is easier to hit consistently....it is a bit stiffer at 63 RA, and defintiely has more power than a Longbody. Most importantly for me, it is much more solid feeling, giving me more penetrating volleys, deeper slices, more pop on serves, more stability on returning heavy serves, etc. Of course, it has a thicker beam and is stiffer, so I guess it's no surprise. It's comparable in terms of manueverability...I'd estimate the swingweight to be in the 325-330 range. Even with the extra couple of mm. of beam width, it does not sacrifice any touch/feel either....amongst the best in that area that I've tried: dampened enough to be comfortable but plenty of feel for touch shots....oh , and its head shape is quite different, more oval instead of round...longer, but narrower 100"....maybe also contributing to increased stability. If you're looking for a midplus extended length stick that has a classic feel and heft, I'd highly recommend checking out Vantage...I was not able to find anything in the market that fit the bill as nicely iwthout numerous hours of fiddling with lead which I just got sick of....they have free shipping to anywhere for the month of June as well as a 15% discount with a promo code right now.

AndrewD
06-29-2005, 08:58 PM
monologuist,

So was the flex the biggest deterrent for you? Id be interested in that kind of a set-up as I've been trying for ages to find a racquet with a 62 stiffness rating that I like. There's very few out there that fit the bill, with only the Wilson Tour95, Diablo mp and POG longbody being possibilities.

Although it is only speculation Id be inclined to feel that 27.5 might have not been enough of a reduction (to get the right mix of swingweight and stability). Possibly dropping it half an inch more might give you enough leeway to add weight at 3 & 9 without increasing swingweight back into the 330 range.

Just a bit of idle speculation. As you know it's very often hard to find the right balance with a racquet. You can play well with most anything but to get what you'd ideally like is another matter (Vantage still too pricey for us here in Aus, even with discounts). Racquet flex is, along with string tension, the thing Im most sensitive to. Just want something like the POG OS but in a smaller head size.

Z-Man
06-30-2005, 06:30 AM
This thread is a trip. We all want VERY slight variations on the same basic frame. Most people aren't very in tune with what the racquet is doing, but I think it really does matter.

monologuist
06-30-2005, 08:11 AM
monologuist,

So was the flex the biggest deterrent for you? Id be interested in that kind of a set-up as I've been trying for ages to find a racquet with a 62 stiffness rating that I like. There's very few out there that fit the bill, with only the Wilson Tour95, Diablo mp and POG longbody being possibilities.

Although it is only speculation Id be inclined to feel that 27.5 might have not been enough of a reduction (to get the right mix of swingweight and stability). Possibly dropping it half an inch more might give you enough leeway to add weight at 3 & 9 without increasing swingweight back into the 330 range.

Just a bit of idle speculation. As you know it's very often hard to find the right balance with a racquet. You can play well with most anything but to get what you'd ideally like is another matter (Vantage still too pricey for us here in Aus, even with discounts). Racquet flex is, along with string tension, the thing Im most sensitive to. Just want something like the POG OS but in a smaller head size.

yeah the flex was what bothered me the most about the Longbody...it was just too noodly for me...

too bad it's out of your price range, as "something like the POG OS but in a smaller headsize" is actually pretty much what a Vantage 100" would be....I think I compared it to the POG OS in a little write-up I did about my Vantage after first getting it. I mean they have their own unique feel , but it's a similar idea in terms of buttery smooth, sweet feel, no technology, but super solid.

AndrewD
06-30-2005, 08:14 AM
Z-Man,

I know it sounds ridiculously fussy, makes me laugh at times thinking about how much tinkering we want to do to racquets LOL. Perhaps my girlfriend was right when she said, on hearing about this, 'guys just like putting things together, taking them apart and making them more 'comfortable', whether its a tennis racquet, a car or a lawn mower'. Well, we live in an apartment so no grass to mow and I know bugger all about cars so will leave that for the mechanic. Guess it just leaves my tennis gear LOL.

Seriously though, if I could just go down and pick something up off the shelf that I liked - or was close to what I like- then I'd leave well enough alone. Unfortunately, its bloody hard to find a racquet with a bit of flex and a bit of heft (but 12 ounces or less) that doesn't come from Volkl or Head (two grip shapes that no amount of tinkering will make comfortable for me). I've pretty much only got a Dunlop 200G or M-Fil 300, Fischer Pro Number One, Diablo mp, POG longbody, ProKennex Ki 5, Wilson nTour or ProStaff Tour95 to choose from. Not a great range really. Only the Diablo, longbody and Tour95 seem at all tempting. As I've been given generous assistance from Prince I think I should stick to their gear so it's either the Diablo or the POG longbody (of course, if they offer me the 03 Tour that might work as well).

I agree with you, being 'in tune' with your racquet or any sporting equipment is important, despite the claims of those who suggest it is only important to a professional. Id agree that it is only 'essential' to a professional but it is still very important at all levels of sport. Once you've got the mechanics down then the little things start to play a part - at whatever level you compete. If you understand what you like best - the 'feel' you prefer in a racquet- then you increase your chances of doing well. If it means tinkering in order to get the right 'feel' and fit then I think, why the hell not?

On a side note, I mentioned my brother altering the length, weight and swingweight of his POG OS by removing the butt cap (27 inches down to 26.5, 12.3 ounces down to 12 and a touch less by also swapping leather grip for synthetic). The racquet plays very, very well and I found it far more playable than in stock form. Far more comfortable due to the lower swingweight, less power but, for me, more spin (prob due to the lower swingweight) and I could hit flatter but still keep control.

All that just by thinking outside the square.

Z-Man
06-30-2005, 09:55 AM
My wife thinks I'm crazy when I break out the scale and balance, but you want to be confident in your equipment, and besides--it's fun. I agree that it's nice to have a little less length sometimes--especially on flat forehands, putting away short balls, and hitting drop shots. I'm trying to train myself to choke up on volleys and forehand put aways, but I need the length for serves and my 2HBH. Good luck with your search...