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View Full Version : Nadal & Borg share not only the same game but the same OCD


Vortex Tour 95
06-11-2011, 08:35 PM
Watching fire and Ice....

Apparently Borg had to sleep 10 hours a night at an exact temperature naked.

His body weight had to be exact

He had to always drive the same route to a tournamen

He would never shave during a tournament

He had to sit in the same chair and have the same exact towels next to him

He would lay out 50 racquet and select the one with the right musical pitch

Doubles
06-11-2011, 08:35 PM
Watching fire and Ice....

Apparently Borgs had to sleep 10 hours a night at an exact temperature naked.

His body weight had to be exact

He had to always drive the same route to a tournamen

He would never shave during a tournament

He had to sit in the same chair and have the same exact towels next to him

He would lay out 50 racquet and select the one with the right musical pitch

Okay......

Vortex Tour 95
06-11-2011, 08:37 PM
Okay......

How can anyone hate Nadal amd love Borg? The similarities between the two are endless.

Doubles
06-11-2011, 08:57 PM
How can anyone hate Nadal amd love Borg? The similarities between the two are endless.

I thought you worshiped Federer? The fact that you care about the similarities between Borg and Nadal is beyond me...

sonicare
06-11-2011, 09:00 PM
How can anyone hate Nadal amd love Borg? The similarities between the two are endless.

Borg comes from the country of blond goddesses. Nadal had xisca. Lmao

kishnabe
06-11-2011, 09:30 PM
Borg was elegant in his workman like game....though Nadal was extreme in his workman like game. That is the big difference.

Borg has OCD but Nadal has gamemanship...so called OCD!

borg number one
06-11-2011, 09:40 PM
Speaking about being picky about his racquets, see this article.

See: http://www.80s-tennis.com/pages/borg-anecdote-jose.html

Vortex Tour 95
06-12-2011, 04:47 AM
Borg was elegant in his workman like game....though Nadal was extreme in his workman like game. That is the big difference.

Borg has OCD but Nadal has gamemanship...so called OCD!

You think nadal arranges his bottles in a certain way to beat Fed? Or he dries his arms the same way or picks his butt etc etc purposely to annoy Fed?

mandy01
06-12-2011, 04:49 AM
Watching fire and Ice....

Apparently Borg had to sleep 10 hours a night at an exact temperature naked.

His body weight had to be exact

He had to always drive the same route to a tournamen

He would never shave during a tournament

He had to sit in the same chair and have the same exact towels next to him

He would lay out 50 racquet and select the one with the right musical pitch..cool story bro.However,it makes sense only if Borg or Nadal show symptoms of OCD OUTSIDE their tennis life as well.So far I'm not sure if either has admitted to it or has ever sought help for it.

Vortex Tour 95
06-12-2011, 04:50 AM
Borg comes from the country of blond goddesses. Nadal had xisca. Lmao

Borgs girlfriend was not exactly pretty or blonde.

Shakira on the other hand is blonde ( from a bottle) and quite hot.

Bartelby
06-12-2011, 04:53 AM
Borg was the same in public and private, but according to some Nadal is only like that on court.

Vortex Tour 95
06-12-2011, 04:54 AM
José’s rackets were singing for Bjorn Borg

By Michel Guilluy, TC Waltzing, March 2010


The following anecdote is an excerpt of a book “The Donnay centenary -  the Black Water legend” which is in preparation for 2 years now.   It will be issued in English and French in September 2011 or September 2012.   Please send any indication of interest or any useful information on the Belgian tennis brand to the following email address : fa333161°skynet.be.
Bjorn Borg used to prepare his matches meticulously just as his own coach, Lennart Bergelin, did. This was part of a ritual which was essential to the player’s mental preparation and, more generally, which helped him focus on tennis. This also explained why Bjorn Borg imposed a multitude of frame specifications on Donnay. Realising that Bjorn Borg was no easy man to please, André Donnay and Guy Pignolet carefully selected a qualified worker who would be extremely rigorous and committed, given the responsibilities Donnay was about to take on. Quite surprisingly, they chose a young and relatively inexperienced carpenter by the name of José Thiry. José, who was 24 years old at the time, was very tall (by Couvin standards!) standing at 1 metre 80 and André Donnay used to call him “Tall Boy”. José quickly gained the recognition of the Donnay family, for he was regularly doing woodwork for them, after working hours, and even acted as their private driver at times.

José therefore started to customise Bjorn Borg’s rackets in 1975. Two series of 400 frames were produced annually according to Bjorn’s specifications of wood quality, weight (415gr), length and balance. These frames had to be reinforced by adding one additional ply of wood to cope with the extreme string tension of 28/35 kg. Out of the special issue, José would typically select the best 25 rackets which would then be stored for six months before delivery. Bjorn Borg realised that, like special Belgian beers, wood is a living material that delivers its best mechanical performance after a complete drying period.

José exercised the greatest care when he applied the English Fairway branded grip. José carefully selected the 1.7 mm leather grip width. Two grips were then applied side by side along a 4 5/8 handle up to 25 cm (1) This was a particularly painful exercise, as the leather had to be stretched tightly to provide Bjorn Borg with the ideal grip size. Over time, José’s index finger got deformed and a lump grew on the joint of one of his fingers.

Alone in his workshop, José admits that his first years on the job were quite stressful. Over time, José's confidence grew as did the friendly visits from Bjorn Borg and other eminent guests who used to end their tour of the Donnay facilities with a trip to José’s sanctuary. Bjorn Borg’s trust in José soon became part and parcel of the Donnay service, so much so that Donnay management did not see the point in organising a cover service. José’s devotion meant that he had to be available at any time, even during weekends and holidays.

Bjorn Borg’s attention to details is best described in a few anecdotes. In June 1979, some rackets were shipped to a hotel where Bjorn Borg was staying in the USA. As soon as he had the rackets in his hands, Bjorn Borg realised that they were too heavy, weighing 418 grams instead of the prescribed 415gr. Panic spread to Donnay’s management and José got flying instructions for an on-site intervention. Suspecting humidity due to insufficient packaging and fully confident in the quality of his work, José recommended from his sanctuary office that the frames should go on a diet and be put on a radiator to get rid of the excess humidity. Lennart called the next day with the news that the diet had been a success.

The following year, José was called out to Wimbledon to provide his services. Bjorn was horrified by the feel of the grip in his hands. José realised that the Fairway grip had swollen, increasing the width by 1 mm and simply replaced the grips. Stricter quality requirements were later imposed on the UK grip provider.

One day, José and some of his Donnay colleagues were attending a tennis exhibition in Liège. All of a sudden, the crowd got struck by Bjorn Borg’s racket, which had exploded as a result of the combination between the power of the stroke and the heavy string tension. José’s colleagues all looked bewildered at him and they soon burst into laughter. Today, José still vividly remembers the following days and weeks of private jokes which followed.

Bjorn Borg’s ritual during the Wimbledon tournament best reflects the extreme care he took in preparing himself mentally and in ensuring his equipment was in the best condition (2). This meant that all the environmental parameters had to be reproduced exactly to obtain the ideal brain conditioning. For instance, Bjorn Borg would always set the air conditioning to 12 degrees or always go on a diet to make sure he did not weigh more than 73 kg. Two days before the tournament, Lennart would make sure Bjorn Borg received a two-hour massage sessionOn the day before the tournament, Bjorn Borg would turn into a musician and complete a two-to-three hour percussion exercise, setting his 50 rackets in front of him in very much the same way as a xylophone player would prepare for a concert. A racket in each hand, Bjorn Borg would then test the slightest variation in the strings’ notes. He would then methodically display the 50 rackets on the floor according to their notes. On every match day, he would pick up his usual six rackets. Sometimes, a highly strung gut would snap in the middle of the night as an unexpected echo to the earlier concert. However, these singing rackets could not wake such a relaxed tennis virtuoso.

Manus Domini
06-12-2011, 06:21 AM
Watching fire and Ice....

Apparently Borg had to sleep 10 hours a night at an exact temperature naked.

His body weight had to be exact

He had to always drive the same route to a tournamen

He would never shave during a tournament

He had to sit in the same chair and have the same exact towels next to him

He would lay out 50 racquet and select the one with the right musical pitch

Sampras had to keep his room a certain temperature at all times. I guess people that love Nadal's game should love Sampras'?

Li Ching Yuen
06-12-2011, 06:25 AM
Xisca is actually a natural blonde.

cc0509
06-12-2011, 06:40 AM
..cool story bro.However,it makes sense only if Borg or Nadal show symptoms of OCD OUTSIDE their tennis life as well.So far I'm not sure if either has admitted to it or has ever sought help for it.

How would we ever know about it though? I doubt a world class athlete is going to admit to having OCD and it is not like we see them in their personal lives outside of tennis. We only see what they want us to see.

mandy01
06-12-2011, 06:46 AM
How would we ever know about it though? I doubt a world class athlete is going to admit to having OCD and it is not like we see them in their personal lives outside of tennis. We only see what they want us to see.Perhaps but after a world class athlete has retired(as is the case with Borg) an admission doesn't seem too unreasonable.Not to me atleast.
Also,(in Nadal's case) today the media seems to have a far wider reach.Surely,we'd hear SOMETHING about it.It's not something you can easily hide .Afterall, it's compulsive behaviour we're talking about.A disorder of sorts.
A lot of people,from various fields,can be very superstitious in the way they do things.They tend to follow very strict routines and behaviour patterns which they believe will help them to maximize their level of performance.
Perhaps a more experienced professional will be able to give us a better explanation.But as per my understanding,I'm not entirely sure if on-court routines or pre-match routines are enough to judge.I think the best solution is of course a formal diagnosis of the condition.

Vortex Tour 95
06-12-2011, 07:51 AM
Guys I'm not a dr but I didn't mean OCD in the clinical sense.

These two players just seem very superstitious and meticulous.

borg number one
06-12-2011, 07:58 AM
Guys I'm not a dr but I didn't mean OCD in the clinical sense.

These two players just seem very superstitious and meticulous.

No doubt. I think you're right on both counts. Most accomplished players and especially top players stick to certain routines religiously, but Borg and Nadal I think are especially rigorous when it comes to being superstitious and especially meticulous. Look at Federer, Lendl, McEnroe, Connors, Sampras, etc, they ALL have their own idiosyncrasies. Some of it is due to very practical reasons, such as wanting your racquet to be just so, but for example, Borg wouldn't shave during Wimbledon because it worked for him starting in 1976 and he wore the same type of Fila shirt when he played Wimbledon, and he had the exact same routine, stayed at the same hotel, etc, etc. Personally, I find both players to be very interesting characters.

NamRanger
06-12-2011, 08:06 AM
People forget that the second McEnroe beat Borg at Wimbledon that he actually stopped alot of his OCD habits. Just ask him; he was more superstitious than OCD.



Also, the difference is that Borg doesn't carry his "OCD" like habits onto the court.

mandy01
06-12-2011, 08:51 AM
Guys I'm not a dr but I didn't mean OCD in the clinical sense.

These two players just seem very superstitious and meticulous.Sure.Point taken.
Anyway,I didn't know Borg needed to sleep without clothing :shock:
Maybe it's a cultural thing but I find it a bit disturbing .

Mainad
06-12-2011, 09:02 AM
Sure.Point taken.
Anyway,I didn't know Borg needed to sleep without clothing :shock:
Maybe it's a cultural thing but I find it a bit disturbing .

What's disturbing about it? Plenty of people sleep au naturel.I've done it myself many times and it never did me any harm (I think)! :)

Mind you,I never won Wimbledon though! :cry:

mandy01
06-12-2011, 09:08 AM
What's disturbing about it? Plenty of people sleep au naturel.I've done it myself many times and it never did me any harm (I think)! :)

Mind you,I never won Wimbledon though! :cry:I don't have a problem with doing that per se..If you like it,sure,I mean,to each his own but it's the NEED to do it that I find a tad disturbing.Again it's probably a cultural thing.Anyway,let's leave it at that.I wouldn't want to derail the thread in this way :wink:

Mainad
06-12-2011, 09:17 AM
I don't have a problem with doing that per se..If you like it,sure,I mean,to each his own but it's the NEED to do it that I find a tad disturbing.Again it's probably a cultural thing.Anyway,let's leave it at that.I wouldn't want to derail the thread in this way :wink:

Derail away! :)

Sorry I misunderstood you.It may have been part of Bjorn's superstitions or it may simply be how he likes to sleep.

I wonder if he shed many of these superstitions after he got beaten by McEnroe in the 1981 final? It certainly tipped him over the edge as he retired shortly afterwards!

Vortex Tour 95
06-12-2011, 11:26 AM
People forget that the second McEnroe beat Borg at Wimbledon that he actually stopped alot of his OCD habits. Just ask him
.

Sure I'll call Borg now....what's his number?

And of course he stopped ......that's because he stopped playing tennis altogether.

On the quitting topic I think Borg did the right thing and both Mac & Fed should learn from it.

Borg quit at 25 an Mcenroe never won a major after 25. Borg was right because he sort of left with his head held high while McEnroe was really just getting destroyed by guys like Lendl. It wa sad.

Fed should have retired after his last Wimbledon. It would have been an awesome way to retire.

What's going on now is making him look bad and strengthing the argument that he had little competition.

Fed should learn something from Borg. I think of Fed wins Wimbledon he should retire right there.

Mainad
06-12-2011, 11:48 AM
Sure I'll call Borg now....what's his number?

And of course he stopped ......that's because he stopped playing tennis altogether.

On the quitting topic I think Borg did the right thing and both Mac & Fed should learn from it.

Borg quit at 25 an Mcenroe never won a major after 25. Borg was right because he sort of left with his head held high while McEnroe was really just getting destroyed by guys like Lendl. It wa sad.

Fed should have retired after his last Wimbledon. It would have been an awesome way to retire.

What's going on now is making him look bad and strengthing the argument that he had little competition.

Fed should learn something from Borg. I think of Fed wins Wimbledon he should retire right there.

The big difference is that Borg just got tired of tennis and lost his motivation for it.He wanted to get out from under the constant pressure and do other things.Federer still loves playing and hasn't given up on his ambition to win another Slam or crack the no.1 spot again.Whereas Borg's ranking began to plummet not long after he lost the 1981 Wimby final,Federer is still safely ensconced at no.3 in the world which isn't at all bad for someone of his veteran status.He's still in the mix.Borg wasn't.

borg number one
06-12-2011, 12:51 PM
The big difference is that Borg just got tired of tennis and lost his motivation for it.He wanted to get out from under the constant pressure and do other things.Federer still loves playing and hasn't given up on his ambition to win another Slam or crack the no.1 spot again.Whereas Borg's ranking began to plummet not long after he lost the 1981 Wimby final,Federer is still safely ensconced at no.3 in the world which isn't at all bad for someone of his veteran status.He's still in the mix.Borg wasn't.

I agree that Federer is still "very much in the mix". No doubt about it, but the situation with Borg was quite different, but he was definitely a big threat in 1981, his last full year of competition. I believe he only played Monte Carlo in 1982 besides some exos. I early 1983, he announced his retirement after a long fight with the Tour. In 1981, he was facing burnout. As to the 1981 Wimbledon final versus McEnroe was telling for Borg. He knew there was something wrong, because he wasn't into the match. He asked, "what's wrong with me, here I am at the world's biggest tournament and I really don't care". He very much felt as if he was the "better player" though and said that he thought he should have won that match, but by then he had checked out mentally as he faced burn out. Remember he played a LOT from 17-25 (more than Nadal or Federer for example). Look at his match totals. On top of that, he he faced a LOT of media attention and had a huge fan following, without all the insulation that players have these days. For example, hotel lobbies often were filled with fans and he'd have to avoid them. At the 1981 US Open final, he was facing a death threat after his SF win against Connors. He was the sport's first rock star and the attention he received internationally was unlike anything tennis had seen. So, he was facing burnout and he wanted time off after 1981, but the Tour insisted that he had to play at least 10 official tourneys, or he'd have to QUALIFY to get into Wimbledon and the US Open. He then chose to walk away from the Sport and pursue other interests, which is a decision I think he regretted in later years, but by then it was too late for any reasonable return to the Tour. I think the Tour made a big mistake by not allowing him to take a break and then get into the FO and Wimbledon and the other majors in 1982, but that's water under the bridge. Now, back to Borg in 1981. In 1981, Borg was clearly #2, not #3 or anything less. His ranking was not "plummeting". He won the Masters in NY(the 4th biggest tournament of the year) beating McEnroe and Lendl in the SF-F. He went 5-0 at the Masters tourneys in Jan. 80 & Jan. 81 against McEnroe, Connors, and Lendl. He then won the French Open, and then lost in the finals of Wimbledon and the US Open. In 1981, McEnroe had losing records versus both Lendl and Connors, but a winning record versus Borg. You had basically those guys in the top four. In 1982, Connors got to #1 and McEnroe was #2. Lendl was at #3, with Wilander and Vilas behind those guys. Wilander won the FO in 1982 and when he practiced with Borg, he couldn't win sets, much less matches. So, Borg's ranking was not plummeting in 1981 and Federer is certainly not plummeting right now. Yet, Borg was definitely facing burnout and so far it does look like Federer still wants to keep playing. I think that's great. I think he'll still be a threat at the majors during 2011-2012, at Wimbledon for starters.

Vortex Tour 95
06-12-2011, 01:39 PM
The big difference is that Borg just got tired of tennis and lost his motivation for it.He wanted to get out from under the constant pressure and do other things.Federer still loves playing and hasn't given up on his ambition to win another Slam or crack the no.1 spot again.Whereas Borg's ranking began to plummet not long after he lost the 1981 Wimby final,Federer is still safely ensconced at no.3 in the world which isn't at all bad for someone of his veteran status.He's still in the mix.Borg wasn't.

I was watching that fire and ice and Borgs own coaches had said that Borg never really gave an adequate explanation a to why he quit.

McEnroe and others said maybe it had something to do with it that McEnroe was beating him or that maybe that loss at the us open was the final straw In a series of events.

It's a mystery that we will never know the real answer to.

Vortex Tour 95
06-12-2011, 01:45 PM
One more thing I found interesting in that show....

Mac said Borg didn't even stick around for the awards ceremony. He just left the stadium.

I read somewhere that Borg was the victim of a death threat....

But on the show Borg never said such a thing. He said he just went home amd jumped in his pool and he felt really great that it was over . He had told his parents and his girlfriend that he would retire after that match . No one else knew.

I really would love to interview Borg and just ask him sone questions point blank . His coaches are right.....Borg has never really explained the situation.

Vortex Tour 95
06-12-2011, 01:48 PM
Sorry I can't help it.....just thought of another thing....

On selling his Wimbledon trophies. Mac am everyone thought Borg needed the money. Borg said on the show that was not true and in fact bought all his wimby trophies back for a lot of money.....more than what he sold them for.

It was a very good show.....you guys should watch it.

BevelDevil
06-12-2011, 02:27 PM
Some degree of OCD is very common among successful people since it is often an "adaptive" trait, i.e., a trait that, overall pays dividends.

Manus Domini
06-12-2011, 02:30 PM
I was watching that fire and ice and Borgs own coaches had said that Borg never really gave an adequate explanation a to why he quit.

McEnroe and others said maybe it had something to do with it that McEnroe was beating him or that maybe that loss at the us open was the final straw In a series of events.

It's a mystery that we will never know the real answer to.

One more thing I found interesting in that show....

Mac said Borg didn't even stick around for the awards ceremony. He just left the stadium.

I read somewhere that Borg was the victim of a death threat....

But on the show Borg never said such a thing. He said he just went home amd jumped in his pool and he felt really great that it was over . He had told his parents and his girlfriend that he would retire after that match . No one else knew.

I really would love to interview Borg and just ask him sone questions point blank . His coaches are right.....Borg has never really explained the situation.

Sorry I can't help it.....just thought of another thing....

You know, I think you're the one with the OCD here...

borg number one
06-12-2011, 02:39 PM
You're right, VortexTour95, Borg would be a fascinating interview subject. He never really worries about what people think of him frankly. He's very secure in himself, in that way. Bob Kain, IMG exec and his former agent that helped him secure the first really big endorsements in pro tennis (before Borg guys didn't get $1 million+ endorsements) said that "he never let winning or losing change how he thought of himself. He was always very secure as to who he was".

Borg did think of selling his trophies, but strangely it was not because he "needed the money". He can make money anytime, anyplace. Yet, at the time, he did have financial troubles after some dealings with bad business partners. On the '81 US Open "exit", Borg later apologized to McEnroe, but McEnroe said he's have done the same thing had there been a death threat on him. After the '81 US Open SF win over Connors in straight sets, Bergelin informed Borg that he had received a death threat phoned in. There was extra security placed, but Bergelin signaled to Borg during the match that it was insufficient (I got some of these details in another thread long back and have read about it as well). So, it's not surprising that he would have not wanted to be there for the trophy ceremony. McEnroe has said that he totally understood, but many have spun that to be "bad sportsmanship". This from a guy who barely EVER questioned a line call or EVER lost his temper on court. This for example made huge headlines. See a famous incident when Borg actually questioned a line call. McEnroe was usually on his best behavior when he and Borg played. See him display great sportsmanship here and see the NY crowd get behind Borg at Madison Square Garden (19,000+). Borg won this tourney in Jan. 80 and Jan. 81, going 5-0 vs. McEnroe, Lendl and Connors. See a clip of him vs. Lendl in the final for some nice hitting between two great baseliners, wood vs. graphite too. Borg won the final handily indoors vs. Lendl in 1981.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVwPAOpFweY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyuiEzBb7hk

Vortex Tour 95
06-12-2011, 06:22 PM
-Borg didn't think about selling his trophies he actually did sell them and he had to buy them back for a far higher price than he sold them for . This was on the show and Borg said so himself . He also stated he didn't need the money.

-they showed the scene where Borg lost his cool and questioned a line call. He just stood there and stared at the ref and would not play. The show said this was near the end and after his loss at wimby.

- he also explained to McEnroe according to the show that he partly quit because being #2 was not an option . He says why play so hard and be only #2. this is from his mouth. McEnroe on the other hand on the show said he disagreed with Borg. When Macs ranking were falling he said he figured "well this still ain't bad, I'm still getting way overpaid for doing nothing . Besides what the hell else am I going to do? I knoW nothing else.

- I'm not saying the death threat didn't happen. But no One talked about it not even Borg. I find it curious that after the match Borg went Into his pool directly after the match.....if there were a death threat why wasn't he afraid? I think he may havE just had enough.

borg number one
06-12-2011, 06:35 PM
-Borg didn't think about selling his trophies he actually did sell them and he had to buy them back for a far higher price than he sold them for . This was on the show and Borg said so himself . He also stated he didn't need the money.

-they showed the scene where Borg lost his cool and questioned a line call. He just stood there and stared at the ref and would not play. The show said this was near the end and after his loss at wimby.

- he also explained to McEnroe according to the show that he partly quit because being #2 was not an option . He says why play so hard and be only #2. this is from his mouth. McEnroe on the other hand on the show said he disagreed with Borg. When Macs ranking were falling he said he figured "well this still ain't bad, I'm still getting way overpaid for doing nothing . Besides what the hell else am I going to do? I knoW nothing else.

- I'm not saying the death threat didn't happen. But no One talked about it not even Borg. I find it curious that after the match Borg went Into his pool directly after the match.....if there were a death threat why wasn't he afraid? I think he may havE just had enough.

-On the bolded portion, no that was at the Masters in January 1981. He won that match and that tourney, the 4th biggest one of the year. It was a big money tournament, like the WTF these days, where only the top players made it there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVwPAOpFweY (thanks Krosero)

-On the trophies, okay, I just remember reading that they were never actually sold. I think Borg mentioned that McEnroe basically changed his mind about it. So, I agree with you if that's what they said in the video. Here's a excerpt on that topic.

In March 2006, Bonhams Auction House in London announced that it would auction Borg's Wimbledon trophies and two of his winning rackets on 21 June 2006.[12] Several players then called Borg wondering what he was thinking, but only McEnroe was able to make Borg reconsider. According to Dagens Nyheter – who had talked to Borg – McEnroe called from New York and asked, "What's up? Have you gone mad?"[13] The conversation apparently persuaded Borg to buy out the trophies from Bonhams at an undisclosed amount.



-For Borg, there's much that he doesn't talk about. I guess he figures some things are just left behind. I don't think he wants to talk about the battles that he had with Tour officials. On the question of being #2, I agree, he definitely wasn't a #2 guy. Yet, though his ranking was #2 in 1981, my point is that he was facing burnout and he definitely didn't see himself as someone that was now #2 no matter what. So, that's the distinction I'd make. I've heard him in interviews say that "that was one of those finals that I thought I was the better player", etc. He did not see himself as a permanent #2 if he kept playing, but he definitely needed a break. He has said "what's wrong with me, here I am playing in a W final, and I don't really care if I win or lose"..etc.

-The death threat definitely occurred. Many who were there at the US Open have discussed it. I don't know where he "went swimming", but that could have been a release for him in a spot he was safe. He certainly wasn't standing in the middle of the court with the lights on. It's not a pleasant topic, so I'm not surprised that they would have veered away from it. Can you imagine that discussion in a HBO special? Well, I got this death threat and I was wondering about security during the match and after the match. It wouldn't be a good ad for the US Open for starters. I'm sure that they didn't talk about all the fun they had at Studio 54 with Vitas either..lol..

http://theselvedgeyard.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/31mcenroe.jpg?w=600&h=356

Vortex Tour 95
06-12-2011, 07:13 PM
Watch the show...... I think you of all people will love it.

borg number one
06-12-2011, 07:23 PM
Watch the show...... I think you of all people will love it.

Will do Vortex Tour 95, thanks for discussing this topic. Good stuff. For me, those were the best of times as far as watching tennis, though I l'll always love watching pro tennis and of course playing tennis. Check out the Nielsen ratings for the '80 W final here.

http://tvbythenumbers.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/wimbledon2008-500x400.gif

VashTheStampede
06-12-2011, 08:22 PM
..cool story bro.However,it makes sense only if Borg or Nadal show symptoms of OCD OUTSIDE their tennis life as well.So far I'm not sure if either has admitted to it or has ever sought help for it.

On his facebook (http://www.facebook.com/Nadal#%21/Nadal?sk=wall&filter=2) in the video posted on April 12, you'll see he picks his shorts at :20 to :25 seconds even while playing video games. It seems like an odd habit he's picked up even off the court.

Vortex Tour 95
06-12-2011, 09:21 PM
Will do Vortex Tour 95, thanks for discussing this topic. Good stuff. For me, those were the best of times as far as watching tennis, though I l'll always love watching pro tennis and of course playing tennis. Check out the Nielsen ratings for the '80 W final here.

http://tvbythenumbers.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/wimbledon2008-500x400.gif

The question is being such a huge Borg fan how do you like Nadal?

Either you hate him for equaling Borg or you love him because Nadal has a very similar game to Borg.

borg number one
06-12-2011, 09:31 PM
The question is being such a huge Borg fan how do you like Nadal?

Either you hate him for equaling Borg or you love him because Nadal has a very similar game to Borg.

I really love watching the guy play. He really reminds me of certain key elements that Borg had, more than any player I've watched since Borg. The guy just puts his head down and goes to work, never satisfied, never stopping to admire his own accomplishments. I have immense respect for him and I think he'll go down as one of the all time great tennis players. I've felt this way since 2007-2008 when I saw him turn the corner at Wimbledon. Once I saw that this guy would be a great player there, I thought he'd become the top player in the world for years to come. For me, Borg stands alone for what he did for the Sport first and foremost. Look at how guys hit the ball now and the way they play and then look straight back at Bjorn Borg who left in 1981. His impact was immense. Put it this way, there's no way Nadal, Federer, and co. would be earning the kind of money they do now were it not for the work of Bjorn Borg. I hope Nadal continues to win majors. He's been my pick at every major really since 2008. If he's healthy, I tend to think he's the favorite.

Vortex Tour 95
06-12-2011, 09:47 PM
The only player nadal has ever lost to at Wimbledon is Federer

That is an amazing stat...... Actually I'm not sur e about that

borg number one
06-12-2011, 09:59 PM
The only player nadal has ever lost to at Wimbledon is Federer

That is an amazing stat...... Actually I'm not sur e about that

That's since 2006. In 2005 he lost to Gilles Muller (had to look it up to remember that). Then, he reached those finals there in 06-07, before winning in 08, and skipping it in 09. Then, he won it in 2010. So, you were very close, no losses except to Federer since 2006.

cc0509
06-13-2011, 01:00 AM
Perhaps but after a world class athlete has retired(as is the case with Borg) an admission doesn't seem too unreasonable.Not to me atleast.
Also,(in Nadal's case) today the media seems to have a far wider reach.Surely,we'd hear SOMETHING about it.It's not something you can easily hide .Afterall, it's compulsive behaviour we're talking about.A disorder of sorts.
A lot of people,from various fields,can be very superstitious in the way they do things.They tend to follow very strict routines and behaviour patterns which they believe will help them to maximize their level of performance.
Perhaps a more experienced professional will be able to give us a better explanation.But as per my understanding,I'm not entirely sure if on-court routines or pre-match routines are enough to judge.I think the best solution is of course a formal diagnosis of the condition.

From what I understand (going back to my undergraduate Psych days), there are various forms of OCD from slight to severe. I think it appears that Borg was more superstitious than having OCD. With Nadal it may just be superstition but to me it appears like it is a little more, maybe a slight case of OCD. Who knows. I don't think it is ever anything Nadal would talk about. In that last interview by Lynn Barber in the Sunday Times when she asked Nadal about his "picking habits" he said it is something he can't control. Sounds like OCD to me. His handlers--i.e PR people would want to dissuade any discussions about it, IMO. Don't think we will know more about it unless Nadal chooses to discuss it.

mandy01
06-13-2011, 02:09 AM
From what I understand (going back to my undergraduate Psych days), there are various forms of OCD from slight to severe. I think it appears that Borg was more superstitious than having OCD. With Nadal it may just be superstition but to me it appears like it is a little more, maybe a slight case of OCD. Who knows. I don't think it is ever anything Nadal would talk about. In that last interview by Lynn Barber in the Sunday Times when she asked Nadal about his "picking habits" he said it is something he can't control. Sounds like OCD to me. His handlers--i.e PR people would want to dissuade any discussions about it, IMO. Don't think we will know more about it unless Nadal chooses to discuss it.I didn't read the article with Lynn Barber.From what I gathered it was disparaging garbage.But I have seen Nadal shorten his routines after receiving warnings..I think Nadal did talk about how those routines help him to focus .Most of the pre-match routines are tough to control because they're so intrinsically related to an athlete's mental makeup on the court.Of course OCD will never affect everyone to the same extent but like I said on-court behaviour still isn't enough imo.
Also,his PR can control only to an extent what gets out from the Nadal camp.They can't control compulsive behaviour patterns even outside tennis courts nor can they keep a perfect tab on the media.Also,I don't see why,if Nadal has only mild symptoms of OCD,his team would be so reluctant to let people know.Most people are already aware of his strange routines.It's not something you can hide anyway.Letting people know about it isn't going to make much of a difference.I don't see why that should be a problem.

cc0509
06-13-2011, 03:48 AM
I didn't read the article with Lynn Barber.From what I gathered it was disparaging garbage.But I have seen Nadal shorten his routines after receiving warnings..I think Nadal did talk about how those routines help him to focus .Most of the pre-match routines are tough to control because they're so intrinsically related to an athlete's mental makeup on the court.Of course OCD will never affect everyone to the same extent but like I said on-court behaviour still isn't enough imo.
Also,his PR can control only to an extent what gets out from the Nadal camp.They can't control compulsive behaviour patterns even outside tennis courts nor can they keep a perfect tab on the media.Also,I don't see why,if Nadal has only mild symptoms of OCD,his team would be so reluctant to let people know.Most people are already aware of his strange routines.It's not something you can hide anyway.Letting people know about it isn't going to make much of a difference.I don't see why that should be a problem.

The routines may be just strong superstitions that Nadal exhibits, but to me he seems like he has a mild case of OCD. If he does in fact have a very mild case of OCD, nobody would know about or even recognize it off the court. Only the people closest to him would know about such a condition.

I disagree with you about his PR team admitting that he has a mild case of OCD. It would not be something that they would want to admit no matter how mild a case it was. As I said in the Lynn Barber article, he admitted that his picking behavior is not something he can control. That is as much as an admission as anybody is going to get imo.

Vortex Tour 95
06-13-2011, 04:13 AM
I didn't read the article with Lynn Barber.From what I gathered it was disparaging garbage.But I have seen Nadal shorten his routines after receiving warnings..I think Nadal did talk about how those routines help him to focus .Most of the pre-match routines are tough to control because they're so intrinsically related to an athlete's mental makeup on the court.Of course OCD will never affect everyone to the same extent but like I said on-court behaviour still isn't enough imo.
Also,his PR can control only to an extent what gets out from the Nadal camp.They can't control compulsive behaviour patterns even outside tennis courts nor can they keep a perfect tab on the media.Also,I don't see why,if Nadal has only mild symptoms of OCD,his team would be so reluctant to let people know.Most people are already aware of his strange routines.It's not something you can hide anyway.Letting people know about it isn't going to make much of a difference.I don't see why that should be a problem.

I agree....it would stop critics on this board from saying that he purposely does these things to bother others.

In fact people would feel sorry for him and treat him as handicapped.

mandy01
06-13-2011, 05:17 AM
..he admitted that his picking behavior is not something he can control. That is as much as an admission as anybody is going to get imo.What admission? Saying he can't stop picking his rear? Like i told you,it's tough to stop such routines when you believe they're going to help you focus.It could be a habit,a nervous tick,anything.
I'm sorry but it's going to take more than that to establish a case of OCD.This is a pretty useless speculation imo .

TheNatural
06-13-2011, 07:42 AM
If Borg Had a better forehand, say one like Nadal's, he could have kept winning until he was 30. It's a shame about his ugly and limited forehand. That forehand is just not dangerous at all. However, he knew the limitations of that shot, and knew exactly how to win. Great mental strength, temperament and movement.

Vortex Tour 95
06-13-2011, 08:02 AM
If Borg Had a better forehand, say one like Nadal's, he could have kept winning until he was 30. It's a shame about his ugly and limited forehand. That forehand is just not dangerous at all. However, he knew the limitations of that shot, and knew exactly how to win. Great mental strength, temperament and movement.

The players have remained the same just the equipment has changed.

If Borg had a graphite racquet he would have been Wilander amd added on another 7 grand slams.

If Borg would have had a Babolat amd luxilon he would be Nadal and added on
Another 17 grand slams for a total of 27 ( Borg + Wilander + Nadal).

The faces and names and equipment has changed but all three are the same player......

Mentally tough, physically fit , natural baseliners who developed a bet game.

Same old same old.

TheNatural
06-13-2011, 08:28 AM
The players have remained the same just the equipment has changed.

If Borg had a graphite racquet he would have been Wilander amd added on another 7 grand slams.

If Borg would have had a Babolat amd luxilon he would be Nadal and added on
Another 17 grand slams for a total of 27 ( Borg + Wilander + Nadal).

The faces and names and equipment has changed but all three are the same player......

Mentally tough, physically fit , natural baseliners who developed a bet game.

Same old same old.

His technique on the forehand just doesnt look good, I think the faster the game becomes, the more technical flaws are exposed.The wood racket era was probably the ideal time for him to play. If you look at his forehand on the senior tour it looks very average. It looks like the better graphite rackets didnt help Borgs forehand shot at all because it had technical limitations to begin with. When he used the wood rackets it looked like he didnt go after the forehand much because he knew it's limitations, even though in that youtube match the commentator says that Borgs forehand had improved letting hit with a bit more length because it used to spin too much and land very short too often.

I agree with you that the players have remained the same and that just the equipment has changed, you can see this when you see the guys on the senior tour hit the ball. And you can see that Borgs forehand technique isnt very good on the senior tour because it wasnt very good to begin with when he used to dominate in his prime.

Vortex Tour 95
06-14-2011, 05:17 AM
His technique on the forehand just doesnt look good, I think the faster the game becomes, the more technical flaws are exposed.The wood racket era was probably the ideal time for him to play. If you look at his forehand on the senior tour it looks very average. It looks like the better graphite rackets didnt help Borgs forehand shot at all because it had technical limitations to begin with. When he used the wood rackets it looked like he didnt go after the forehand much because he knew it's limitations, even though in that youtube match the commentator says that Borgs forehand had improved letting hit with a bit more length because it used to spin too much and land very short too often.

I agree with you that the players have remained the same and that just the equipment has changed, you can see this when you see the guys on the senior tour hit the ball. And you can see that Borgs forehand technique isnt very good on the senior tour because it wasnt very
good to begin with when he used to
dominate in his prime.

Borgs forehand was actually AMAZING and you and every player today have Borg to thank for your forehand.

You see Borg invented the modern game and was the first to use the modern day forehand.

In the days of wood the continental was taught and everyone was taught to hit with a closed stance.

Then along came Bjorn Borg who hit with a semi - western forehand and an open stance . All his teachers tried to force him to change but he was stubborn
And just wouldn't listen.

Today almost everyone hits the way that Borg invented.

The reason his topspin is more "loopy" than the lasers you see today is because with a wood racquet and gut strings that's about all you could do. Borg understood that and created his own "luxilon" strings by stringing at an insane 80 pounds so he could "bludgeon" the ball ( in those days that was hitting hard). Compare that to McEnroe who strung at about 45-55 pounds.

Having said all that, along came Lendl with a graphite racquet. Ivan was the first one to use it and was able to hit laser beam topspin as they do today but with gut. Even so Borg beat Lendl at the FO with his wood racquet!!!

You can't say his forehand was bad , you have to put it in context. Borg was a pioneer ......

Lendl was the father of the modern game but Borg was the grandaddy !!!!

borg number one
06-14-2011, 05:23 AM
Borg had one of the all time great forehands. It was the best FH around when he played as rated but his peers, he could hit it hard and flat, with lots of topspin, he could chip with it, and it was so consistent, it's not even funny. The wood frames make a big difference. If he used modern frames, he would do some serious damage, especially given how fast he could swing with his ultra heavy frames. His custom frames were 415g, and that's before they used an extra ply of wood to deal with 80 lbs. of tension! If you think Borg's FH was "bad", you REALLY need to watch this clip. His fh was revolutionary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31IYa7VsZYg

http://www.corbisimages.com/images/BE046039.jpg?size=67&uid=%7BDA25848C-B317-4F3F-ADF3-558F74FFD198%7D

borg number one
06-14-2011, 07:16 AM
Absolutely awesome video. Illustrates my point perfectly. Great find!

Are there any videos comparing Nadal to Borg? Fh or bh? I would live to see that!



Check this out, see Borg and the "reverse FH". Borg shaped strokes for years after he played. He "copied" no one really when it came to his strokes. Think about it, who hit like Borg in the mid-1970's? He had a game that people back then couldn't quite comprehend. Lennart Bergelin was a genius in that he never tried to alter his strokes too much, so Borg was able to free flow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2h6-i6Q5is