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View Full Version : Why is Rafa's indoor record so poor?


batz
06-16-2011, 10:56 AM
And will it have any bearing if it rains a lot at Wimbledon?

Rafa has only a single indoor title to his name - as opposed to 46 outdoors - why is this? Could whatever it is affect him @ Wimbledon?

lonux
06-16-2011, 10:58 AM
He handles outdoor conditions better than most other players.

For example, Söderling is usually heavily effected by wind and such, which is why he is a fantastic indoor player. Nadal is less effected by the conditions, hence why he is a "worse" indoor player.

At least IMO.

North
06-16-2011, 11:03 AM
Fast hard courts indoors. Controlled conditions indoors so less mental challenges (dealing with wind, sun, etc) for other players to mangage.

Mustard
06-16-2011, 11:05 AM
Nadal loves the elements, i.e. the wind, the sun, the physical endurance in such conditions etc.

Tammo
06-16-2011, 11:05 AM
he probably didn't grow up playing on indoor hard courts like all the Americans do.

fed_rulz
06-16-2011, 11:07 AM
Fast hard courts indoors. Controlled conditions indoors so less mental challenges (dealing with wind, sun, etc) for other players to mangage.

Nadal loves the elements, i.e. the wind, the sun, the physical endurance in such conditions etc.

Explains why he's good outdoors, but does not explain why he is poor indoors.

Murrayfan31
06-16-2011, 11:17 AM
Indoor courts allow for great ball strikers to excel the most and defensive moonballers don't have the wind and sun to protect their shots from getting smashed.

8PAQ
06-16-2011, 11:18 AM
Nadal depends on bad bounces and other bad conditions to beat superior players such as Federer. In perfect conditions more talented players such Federer do not miss hit as much and control most of the points. When playing Federer indoors on a hard court Nadal obviously has no answer with his 1 dimensional "hit everything to bh until I get a miss hit" game and loses every single time by a pretty one sided score.

Do not worry Nadal fans because Nadal can still win indoors against better players if following happens:

a) the other player gets an eye injury and can't see (Novak WTF 2010)
b) the other player is a big time choker on a big stage in given country (Murray WTF 2010)
c) the other player is getting old and is way past his prime (Federer at WTF 2011 maybe? 2012 for sure?)

ViscaB
06-16-2011, 11:20 AM
Indoor courts allow for great ball strikers to excel the most and defensive moonballers don't have the wind and sun to protect their shots from getting smashed.

That doesn't really help to explain why Murray is good indoors.

Rock Strongo
06-16-2011, 11:22 AM
The roof is too low.

CMM
06-16-2011, 11:22 AM
There are only 3 important indoor tournaments and he reached the finals at all of them. It's not that bad.

BreakPoint
06-16-2011, 11:23 AM
Because indoor tennis is all about the tennis. Nothing else affects the balls nor the players. Indoor tennis really shows how good someone is at TENNIS, not how good someone is in handling the elements, i.e., wind, sun, heat, humidity, shadows, glare, rain, etc.

Nadal is simply just not the best at TENNIS in and of itself. He's just the best at handling all the other stuff that happens during outdoor tennis because he's so mentally tough and doesn't let anything bother him.

Nadal_Power
06-16-2011, 11:24 AM
I really don't care.. as long he holds best Open era percentage in Outdoor tournaments

batz
06-16-2011, 11:28 AM
There are only 3 important indoor tournaments and he reached the finals at all of them. It's not that bad.

That's a decent point - but his indoor record is still considerably worse. I'm not hating on him or anything - I'm genuinely interested as to why there is such a difference.

Nobody has answered the second part yet - could it affect him @ Wimby if the roof is closed a lot?

batz
06-16-2011, 11:29 AM
I really don't care.. as long he holds best Open era percentage in Outdoor tournaments

Yeah - thanks for sharing that with us mate. Got anything to say about the actual questions? Could it affect his Wimbledon?

TheNatural
06-16-2011, 11:29 AM
how many best of 5 set matches has Nadal lost indoors?

CMM
06-16-2011, 11:33 AM
Nobody has answered the second part yet - could it affect him @ Wimby if the roof is closed a lot?

How are we supposed to know? I have no idea.
If the weather forecast is correct he will play with the roof closed on Monday. If he gets Isner or Karlovic... :?

CMM
06-16-2011, 11:39 AM
This is great :rolleyes:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3641887/Rain-in-UK-for-ten-days.html

tennis_pro
06-16-2011, 11:43 AM
I really don't care.. as long he holds best Open era percentage in Outdoor tournaments

If the only reason you posted here was to say how much you love Rafa we already know. Your nickname has Rafalove written all over your face.

sureshs
06-16-2011, 11:46 AM
Tennis was invented as an outdoor game. That is why it is called lawn tennis. Nadal remains true to the tradition and can handle the forces of Nature without whining.

Mustard
06-16-2011, 11:48 AM
Explains why he's good outdoors, but does not explain why he is poor indoors.

The lack of elements means that Nadal's opponents are not affected in the same way by Nadal's grinding, physical game. The indoor conditions enables Nadal's opponents to maintain greater concentration and have greater consistency with their own game.

zagor
06-16-2011, 11:54 AM
And will it have any bearing if it rains a lot at Wimbledon?

Rafa has only a single indoor title to his name - as opposed to 46 outdoors - why is this? Could whatever it is affect him @ Wimbledon?

Well thing is there aren't many important tournaments that are played indoors but also I think what bothers Nadal is:

-Indoor conditions magnify the affect of the serve and I still maintain that ROS is one of the least strong elements in Nadal's game,keep in mind I mean ROS as a standalone shot not overall return game in which Nadal excels because of his speed,hands and overall slowed down courts in modern era.

-Indoor conditions make the bounce more predictable and true which makes it easier for opponents to take the ball on the rise and move Nadal around the court.

-The biggest indoor tourney is WTF(Masters Cup before)and Nadal did quite good there against anyone but Federer but that's mainly because HC they use there is relatively low bouncing which makes it harder for Nadal to kick the ball high up to Fed's BH,the ball comes more in Fed's strike zone.

MichaelNadal
06-16-2011, 12:12 PM
Explains why he's good outdoors, but does not explain why he is poor indoors.

Because like superman, he gets his energy from the sun.

DeShaun
06-16-2011, 12:30 PM
Explains why he's good outdoors, but does not explain why he is poor indoors.

One of Rafa's comparative advantages over the field is so nullified that he is relatively "disadvantaged by playing indoors. This is a case of semantics; he is not poor indoors but his superiority at managing the elements has no way of helping him distance himself there, and so, the gap between his play and that of his opponent is smaller where he loses more often as proof.

wilkinru
06-16-2011, 12:45 PM
Indoors at Wimbledon should not bother him much. Other players may be quite happy for less wind and it might make it a bit tougher for Nadal.

We'll see how fast center court is too.

Nadal has the most spin in the game, thats why wind doesnt bother him a lot.

TennisBatman
06-16-2011, 12:49 PM
And will it have any bearing if it rains a lot at Wimbledon?

Rafa has only a single indoor title to his name - as opposed to 46 outdoors - why is this? Could whatever it is affect him @ Wimbledon?

Irrelevant...out of the 4 slams in a year, none of them is played on an indoor court.

Would it be open for debate as to how good each player is on sand, for example?

TMF
06-16-2011, 01:05 PM
Irrelevant...out of the 4 slams in a year, none of them is played on an indoor court.

Would it be open for debate as to how good each player is on sand, for example?

Sure it is had there were events taking place on sand. The fact is we have indoor events and it’s Nadal worst result.

ksbh
06-16-2011, 01:20 PM
Because he was watching movies when he should have been practising!



http://images.bollywoodhungama.com/img/feature/11/feb/sunny1.jpg

fed_rulz
06-16-2011, 01:23 PM
The lack of elements means that Nadal's opponents are not affected in the same way by Nadal's grinding, physical game. The indoor conditions enables Nadal's opponents to maintain greater concentration and have greater consistency with their own game.

so nadal is not a good enough player to win if the elements are taken out of the equation? you make it sound as if every outdoor match is played in extreme conditions involving wind, rain or the sun? I don't think so...

jackson vile
06-16-2011, 01:33 PM
Because indoor tennis is all about the tennis. Nothing else affects the balls nor the players. Indoor tennis really shows how good someone is at TENNIS, not how good someone is in handling the elements, i.e., wind, sun, heat, humidity, shadows, glare, rain, etc.

Nadal is simply just not the best at TENNIS in and of itself. He's just the best at handling all the other stuff that happens during outdoor tennis because he's so mentally tough and doesn't let anything bother him.



That is what tennis is about LOL That is one of the few things that makes tennis so unique compared to any other sport int he history of the world. There as so many variables it is very easy to lose it mentally.

Indoors is for the mentally weak players.

TennisFan3
06-16-2011, 01:41 PM
Return of Serve.

The ROS is the weakest part of Nadal's game (relatively speaking). And this aspect is exposed MOST indoors, as the server can just hit his spots. Ever wondered why Fed always serves lights out against Nadal, when he beats him indoors.

chrischris
06-16-2011, 01:45 PM
Because he sucks indoors comaped to outdoors. There are at least 25 players that can beat him on a fast indoor court. i would think only like 10 guys can do it outdoors. Fed , Nole, Muzza, Sod, Ferrer,Raonic, Isner, Roddick ,Tsonga for example outdoors.

Mustard
06-16-2011, 01:52 PM
so nadal is not a good enough player to win if the elements are taken out of the equation? you make it sound as if every outdoor match is played in extreme conditions involving wind, rain or the sun? I don't think so...

I didn't say that, but outdoor conditions with the elements do give Nadal more of an edge, an edge that doesn't exist indoors.

fed_rulz
06-16-2011, 01:58 PM
I didn't say that, but outdoor conditions with the elements do give Nadal more of an edge, an edge that doesn't exist indoors.

I agree that taking the elements out serves to neutralize Nadal's edge, but IMO the edge is not very significant to begin with. Soderling or Berdych did not lose the FO final last year due to elements; Nadal is inherently superior to them on those surfaces. Likewise, elements played no role in Federer's defeats to Nadal; nor did the lack of it play any role in Nadal's defeats to Federer indoors.

Mainad
06-16-2011, 02:02 PM
Because he sucks indoors comaped to outdoors. There are at least 25 players that can beat him on a fast indoor court. i would think only like 10 guys can do it outdoors. Fed , Nole, Muzza, Sod, Ferrer,Raonic, Isner, Roddick ,Tsonga for example outdoors.

Raonic and Isner? They both lost all their outdoor encounters with Nadal.

chrischris
06-16-2011, 02:11 PM
Raonic and Isner? They both lost all their outdoor encounters with Nadal.

But on grass they might return the favor,or on a fast hard court in July or Aug/Sept..

bolo
06-16-2011, 02:18 PM
And will it have any bearing if it rains a lot at Wimbledon?

Rafa has only a single indoor title to his name - as opposed to 46 outdoors - why is this? Could whatever it is affect him @ Wimbledon?

Hard to say. But overall IIRC the murray/wawrinka indoor wimbledon didn't feel like a fast court match to me. Conditions seemed heavy and slow. Those conditions imo will help him vs. federer and hurt him vs. murray. Against djokovic it's harder to say.

Ralph
06-16-2011, 03:05 PM
The roof is too low.

Best reply yet ;)

On a serious note though regarding the roof at Wimbledon, I can't remember either Murray/Wawrinka or Djokovic/Rochus matches being fast with the roof closed. The glass house effect can kick in if they don't dehumidify correctly, so that will favour Ralph.

Interestingly, neither of the matches mentioned above were late on in the championships, so how Ralph will cope with the roof covering a surface of worn out grass (which he himself stated is similar to clay by the end of the second week), we don't yet know.

tenniselbow1
06-16-2011, 03:17 PM
One word: Speeeed! Fed owns Nadal when you speed up the game in any form. Reflexes better, smoother strokes, takes the ball earlier, "poetry in motion" running wild.. Here is a question.. 10-20 years from now how will the game be played? The game in my opinion is just going to get faster, much faster. When watching old you tube pics who's game is going to be more respected?:) Fed's style of game will stand the test of time in my opinion, more so than Rafa's.

Ralph
06-16-2011, 03:25 PM
Because like superman, he gets his energy from the sun.

But Superman doesn't exist. Well, only in Ralph form ;)

Tennis was invented as an outdoor game. That is why it is called lawn tennis. Nadal remains true to the tradition and can handle the forces of Nature without whining.

That's right, Lawn Tennis, outdoors. It's great that tennis is played on a lawn for 4 months of the year. Oops, sorry, make that 3 months. No, wait, that'll be 2 months... Hold on, I'll get there in a sec-

That is what tennis is about LOL That is one of the few things that makes tennis so unique compared to any other sport int he history of the world. There as so many variables it is very easy to lose it mentally.

Indoors is for the mentally weak players.

LOL....... lol.... chuckle....LOL.............lol.

Using your own theory, let's see how this pans out.

The last WTF, which consists of the best 8 players in the ATP over the given year, was held in London. We know that Federer has mental issues when playing Ralph, nothing new here regardless of surface.

So, what you're saying is that those who do better indoors are mentally weak?

Didn't Ralph beat Nole and Murray in London? :shock:

LOVeryL.

Rhino
06-16-2011, 04:02 PM
This is great :rolleyes:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3641887/Rain-in-UK-for-ten-days.html

Wimbledon is expected to be soaked!

Awesome. It can only help Federer and hurt Nadal if Wimbledon becomes a temporary indoor tournament. :)

Could make things really interesting actually if all the centre court matches are played under a roof. The rain will probably stop just in time for Nadal in the final.

timnz
06-16-2011, 05:12 PM
It's his worst surface. Simple as that.

Not that he can't play well on it, but with his game he isn't going be at his most dominant

mcr619619
06-17-2011, 02:40 AM
because indoors doesn't have strong winds, sun glare, and it's less hotter (if it's a hot day)...which is, most of players is annoyed, while nadal rejoice,.. nadal opponents on indoor can concentrate more in playing, no winds, no glare, which really affects them, Nadal is also affected but not too much, because his superhuman ..

*remember playing Badminton when i was 11yrs old, sunny day,sun glare really affected me, though i won the 1st set (cloud blocked the sun) while , i scored 0 points in the 2nd set(without the cloud),can't saw the shuttlecock, thank god there was a change-court, then i beaten the opponent easily, he never scored a point in the 2nd, THANKS SUN GLARE..LOL

^ that's an example of nature's power to affect a game..

i do think that indoor game really show how a great player you are, all major sports but baseball should be play now on indoors, though tennis is LAWN TENNIS..

im not hating on nadal, i respect him, but

mother nature+nadal+slower outdoor courts = W..

TheTruth
06-17-2011, 04:58 AM
I wonder if they knew that when the draw came out? Sounding very suspicious to me.

glazkovss
06-17-2011, 07:53 AM
Because he plays too much in the first 2/3 of the year, so he has little left for fall indoor season.
Actually he plays very few indoor tournaments comparing to outdoors
- that is also a factor. Give us his w-l record in % outdoors and indoors to judge.

jrachiever
06-17-2011, 08:11 AM
He induces fewer misshits from his opponents because of the controlled environment, and the surface is faster, allowing the biggest hitting players to hit through him, which they sometimes do on hard courts anyway.

I think the speed of most indoor surfaces is the biggest factor and wouldn't expect a closed roof at Wimbledon to affect his chances much.

Sneezy
06-17-2011, 08:42 AM
I thought most indoor tournaments used carpet as the surface, and that creates a lower ball bounce. And a lower ball bounce makes that high spinning Nadal forehand less vicious. Like at the Year End Championship last year when Fed took out Nadal.

NamRanger
06-17-2011, 08:44 AM
Tennis was invented as an outdoor game. That is why it is called lawn tennis. Nadal remains true to the tradition and can handle the forces of Nature without whining.



Then why does Nadal play with a racquet? You do realize that tennis originally and traditionally for quite some time was played with your hand slapping a ball right?

marcub
06-17-2011, 09:41 AM
The roof is too low.

This is priceless :))

Comet Buster
06-17-2011, 09:45 AM
Then why does Nadal play with a racquet? You do realize that tennis originally and traditionally for quite some time was played with your hand slapping a ball right?

Rap3d!

10 char.

Lsmkenpo
06-17-2011, 11:36 AM
Indoors it is harder for Nadal to see Uncle Toni's signals.

TheNatural
06-17-2011, 11:58 AM
because indoors doesn't have strong winds, .

Correct, He performs poorly indoors because the lingering stench from his opponents shankhands puts him off his game (particularly Federer's)...he needs the outdoor breeze to blow the stink away.

Hitman
06-17-2011, 12:04 PM
Correct, He performs poorly indoors because the lingering stench from his opponents shankhands puts him off his game (particularly Federer's)...he needs the outdoor breeze to blow the stink away.

I agree. All the stink from his fingers after all the butt picks would certainly throw him off also. Without the breeze, he would suffocate.

RCizzle65
06-17-2011, 12:07 PM
The roof is too low.

Lmfao, I'm not a Nadal hater but I laughed at that

MixieP
06-17-2011, 12:18 PM
Why is Rafa's indoor record so poor?

It's because he's afraid that the roof will fall in, and this affects his concentration. It is an old Balearic superstition.

reversef
06-17-2011, 12:30 PM
Because indoor tennis is all about the tennis.
You are a traditionalist, aren't you? Yes, tennis was an indoor game at first.... Oh, maybe it was jeu de paume. :)

More seriously, tennis is an outdoor game, my friend. Time to realize it. Of course, Nadal is not an adept of serve festivals, and he doesn't play the game of a brainless ballbasher, so he's not the first one to benefit from indoor conditions.

wilkinru
06-17-2011, 12:44 PM
One word: Speeeed! Fed owns Nadal when you speed up the game in any form. Reflexes better, smoother strokes, takes the ball earlier, "poetry in motion" running wild.. Here is a question.. 10-20 years from now how will the game be played? The game in my opinion is just going to get faster, much faster. When watching old you tube pics who's game is going to be more respected?:) Fed's style of game will stand the test of time in my opinion, more so than Rafa's.

Hah.

Fed's game will be the exception in the future. With kids growing up with these strings that create much more spin, expect more heavy top spin to dominate tennis for the foreseeable future. It's going to go the path of table tennis. Spin spin and more spin. They might even end up raising the net, like table tennis.

Heracles
06-17-2011, 01:10 PM
The answer to that question is quite simple.

The indoor season is at the end of the year and Nadal is really tired at this period of the year because of all the matchs he played.

He is physically and mentally drained. It is only because of that.

But tennis wise he is fine, he won an indoor MS at 19 and beat Roddick, Djokovic, Berdych and Murray last year at atp tour final. If there is a roof at Wimbledon it will change little.

timnz
06-17-2011, 03:21 PM
I thought most indoor tournaments used carpet as the surface, and that creates a lower ball bounce. And a lower ball bounce makes that high spinning Nadal forehand less vicious. Like at the Year End Championship last year when Fed took out Nadal.

Unfortunately no. Carpet has disappeared as a surface. These days it is indoor hard. If you want to explain the disappearance of the serve and volleyer that is the reason. Edberg and Becker wouldn't fare well on the current diet of slow surfaces players today get to choose from

Pwned
06-17-2011, 03:24 PM
I thought most indoor tournaments used carpet as the surface, and that creates a lower ball bounce. And a lower ball bounce makes that high spinning Nadal forehand less vicious. Like at the Year End Championship last year when Fed took out Nadal.

As mentioned carpet is no more. And the WTF was on a low bouncing slow hard court the last two years.

viduka0101
06-17-2011, 03:28 PM
The roof is too low.

haha, good one

Clay lover
06-17-2011, 04:19 PM
Fast surface, true and low bounces, reduced effect of spin, more effective serves, etc etc.

But I somehow feel that Nadal's indoor HC record is gonna improve while his outdoor HC record is going to decline. He's pretty aggressive on the stuff now.