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View Full Version : Do you really want this kind of game back?!


Satch
06-16-2011, 03:53 PM
Can't see this but not to say that their reflexes look so amazing.. not like todays camping on the baseline....

But still i would like to see more all-court today, not just baseL or SV.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36wpnYByAMA

BrooklynNY
06-16-2011, 03:59 PM
Can't see this but not to say that their reflexes look so amazing.. not like todays camping on the baseline....

But still i would like to see more all-court today, not just baseL or SV.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36wpnYByAMA

Yes, 100%, since tennis is such a long season, why not have a type of season where 30% of the tennis is played in this style. It would make for a more diverse game, with a fresh cast of characters making it through depending on the surface, rather than the old predictable, Nadal, Federer, Djokovic, Murray/the guy who beats Murray in the semis every tournament.

There are/used to be so many different styles and skills in tennis, they should all be celebrated. At one point the style of play/surface speed was too far in the fast direction, but now the pendulum has swung too far in the opposite direction.

BigServer1
06-16-2011, 03:59 PM
It would be nice for that kind of tennis to be an option...

I'd love it if we had surfaces that benefited all types of games and forced guys to change the way they played from surface to surface rather than the homogeneity that we're dealing with currently.

'Tis all about the happy mediums, no?

egn
06-16-2011, 04:10 PM
What I want back is the diversity that tennis had in the 80s-90s were you could see different styles and the ability to adapt all surfaces being beneficial. Where you could see players modifying games from surface to surface as the season progressed. Sure Sampras never truly grinded and Agassi never did pure serve and volley but you can clearly see Sampras had a different approach on clay, grass, indoors, slow hardcourts etc.

MichaelNadal
06-16-2011, 04:15 PM
Im pretty surprised to be honest that no one plays this way anymore. I think a good volleyer would be pretty effective against a baseliner.

TenFanLA
06-16-2011, 04:26 PM
Playing S&V became very disadvantageous with polys. Then they slowed down the courts and started using heavier balls on top of that. In the 90's the game was too much serve and too little groundstrokes. Now it's the other way around. Since we won't get rid of polys we need to speed up the courts and/or balls need to lose girth and weight. Then we will have a great variety of S&V, all court, baseline games. And may the best man win!

Tammo
06-16-2011, 04:27 PM
A mix of today's game and S and V.

Sid_Vicious
06-16-2011, 05:00 PM
Is this video fake?? Sampras missed a running forehand at 22 seconds :shock: How can that be?

I heard that everytime Pete hits a running forehand, an angel gets its wings. :lol:

ttbrowne
06-16-2011, 05:46 PM
I like it better today. That old crap (S&V) that Sampras did was boring.

timeisonmyside
06-16-2011, 06:29 PM
Was watching Becker vs Edberg Wimbled classic on Tennis Channel the other day. I used to like Becker too but his serve looks weird now. He lands on his right foot.

S&V tennis sucks! One or two shots max. They can't rally at all. Lots of volleys are errors. Very boring to watch, and this was considered a classic!

I'm glad they played the Fedal 2007 final right after it. Such a stark contrast. Nadal will kill Becker and edberg, any surface, fast grass, even if they played on ice.

Jaewonnie
06-16-2011, 06:51 PM
It'd be nice to see more S&Vers...

Breaker
06-16-2011, 07:12 PM
Was watching Becker vs Edberg Wimbled classic on Tennis Channel the other day. I used to like Becker too but his serve looks weird now. He lands on his right foot.

S&V tennis sucks! One or two shots max. They can't rally at all. Lots of volleys are errors. Very boring to watch, and this was considered a classic!

I'm glad they played the Fedal 2007 final right after it. Such a stark contrast. Nadal will kill Becker and edberg, any surface, fast grass, even if they played on ice.

Statements like this are why no one takes this section of the board seriously. Edberg made a RG final and Becker could rally with the very best from the back of the court, a great combination of power and speed together that when combined with his amazing athleticism at net makes him one of the greatest athletes tennis has ever seen.

Keep in mind Nadal has been taken to 5 sets in the last year by Isner (on clay no less!), Petzschner, and Haase - all big servers who like to finish at the net, hell even 200+ ranked Robert Kendrick was able to do this a couple of years ago and these guys aren't even half the player Becker or Edberg were from ANY part of the court and this is on slowed down grass.

Max G.
06-16-2011, 08:33 PM
But still i would like to see more all-court today, not just baseL or SV.


You can't have much all-court play without S&V and baselining both being viable. By nature, "all-court" play is when the guy plays both at net and at the baseline - if one of those is unviable, then all-court play dies too.

That's what we see today. S&V is gone, and all-court play is gone with it, only baseline play is viable.

The best is when there's a mix of all sorts of styles.

timeisonmyside
06-16-2011, 10:54 PM
Statements like this are why no one takes this section of the board seriously. Edberg made a RG final and Becker could rally with the very best from the back of the court, a great combination of power and speed together that when combined with his amazing athleticism at net makes him one of the greatest athletes tennis has ever seen.

Keep in mind Nadal has been taken to 5 sets in the last year by Isner (on clay no less!), Petzschner, and Haase - all big servers who like to finish at the net, hell even 200+ ranked Robert Kendrick was able to do this a couple of years ago and these guys aren't even half the player Becker or Edberg were from ANY part of the court and this is on slowed down grass.

Yes Becker could "rally with the best of them" at the time.. He was "one of the greatest athletes tennis has ever seen" at the time. Tennis has seen many more great athletes since.

Isner, petzschner, and Kendrick have pushed nadal because they have modern technique, equipment, and training. Having 80's Edberg play Nadal now would be like combining the serve of David Ferrer with the ground game of Ivo Karlovic.

norbac
06-16-2011, 11:01 PM
I think the SV style can still be used effectively by the right players. Haas used it beautifully in his 09 grass court season and Llodra did so as well towards the end of last season. At the same time I don't think you can mainly play SV on every part of the season nowadays, the success of the two players I mentioned came in the grass season and the fast indoor season.

NamRanger
06-16-2011, 11:06 PM
Yes Becker could "rally with the best of them" at the time.. He was "one of the greatest athletes tennis has ever seen" at the time. Tennis has seen many more great athletes since.

Isner, petzschner, and Kendrick have pushed nadal because they have modern technique, equipment, and training. Having 80's Edberg play Nadal now would be like combining the serve of David Ferrer with the ground game of Ivo Karlovic.




LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL



1) Edberg has like 10000000000x better of a serve than David Ferrer.

2) Edberg's ground game is like 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 0000000x better than Karlovic's, even that crappy continental forehand that he had. Yeah; it was "weak" but it did the job and his backhand was really awesome.



Do you know who Becker was playing against? Guys like Lendl, Chang, Agassi, Muster, Kafelnikov etc. all who were really good baseliners. Don't make me laugh; please.

ledwix
06-16-2011, 11:09 PM
I like serve-and-volley on first serve, but second serve is a bit much. They still need to have baseline rallies to keep it entertaining.

firefox
06-16-2011, 11:11 PM
I enjoyed S&V during the McEnroe domination in the early 80's. It became S&E (serve & error) when power tennis came into play in the late 80's. The current style of play is the best IMO. S&V was great during the wooden era, but not today.

obsessedtennisfandisorder
06-16-2011, 11:14 PM
Was watching Becker vs Edberg Wimbled classic on Tennis Channel the other day. I used to like Becker too but his serve looks weird now. He lands on his right foot.

S&V tennis sucks! One or two shots max. They can't rally at all. Lots of volleys are errors. Very boring to watch, and this was considered a classic!

I'm glad they played the Fedal 2007 final right after it. Such a stark contrast. Nadal will kill Becker and edberg, any surface, fast grass, even if they played on ice.

AO Final from same year (2000)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgScOlDlZWY

soooo boring all that S@V.(COUGH)
Players today would destroy these guys(cough)

namelessone
06-17-2011, 12:01 AM
Im pretty surprised to be honest that no one plays this way anymore. I think a good volleyer would be pretty effective against a baseliner.

Only on grass(yes, even this grass) and certain HC surfaces. Otherwise no, you would just get passed all day. Another thing is that no one today, except for Roddick, Fed, partially Djoko(after getting rid of Todd) and the trees(Isner/Karlovic) have very solid and consistent serves. And this is even without going into second serves. Sampras wasn't phased if he missed first serves, this is a guy that would get aces out of second serves or put the ball where you couldn't reach it. You can't S&V without S and let's face it, we don't have a plethora of great servers right now.

One weird(and kinda stupid) thing I see in today's players is the fact that they are unwilling to come forward even after sending their opponent way off court.Sure, today's players defend great and the tech allows them to pass easier than in the past but only a handful of players can pass you while being stretched out wide and even then, they'll still fail like half of the time. Just seems stupid to me to wait in the middle of the court for the ball to come back(usually floated) and start the rally again when you could be sprinting to the net as soon as you hit the approach shot.

Max G.
06-17-2011, 02:23 AM
Yes Becker could "rally with the best of them" at the time.. He was "one of the greatest athletes tennis has ever seen" at the time. Tennis has seen many more great athletes since.

Isner, petzschner, and Kendrick have pushed nadal because they have modern technique, equipment, and training.

Technique, equipment, and training come with the times. Athleticism comes with the player.

If Becker was playing today, he would also have had the benefit of the upgraded techniques, equipment, and training, and he too would be playing significantly better than he did back then. (And probably would be a baseliner :/ )

Max G.
06-17-2011, 02:27 AM
One weird(and kinda stupid) thing I see in today's players is the fact that they are unwilling to come forward even after sending their opponent way off court.Sure, today's players defend great and the tech allows them to pass easier than in the past but only a handful of players can pass you while being stretched out wide and even then, they'll still fail like half of the time. Just seems stupid to me to wait in the middle of the court for the ball to come back(usually floated) and start the rally again when you could be sprinting to the net as soon as you hit the approach shot.

Eh, there's a reason for it.

1) With all the extra power nowadays, forehands are almost as easy to put away as volleys would be. So there's less of an incentive to come in.

2) With all the extra power nowadays, it's impossible to hit an approach shot so good that an opponent can't flick a winner. So there's a lot more risk to coming in than there used to be.

All that comes together to players playing pretty much baseline tennis all the time - even guys that are very comfortable at net.

1970CRBase
06-17-2011, 02:30 AM
Instead of S & V it's S & F. :p

Satch
06-17-2011, 03:53 AM
You can't have much all-court play without S&V and baselining both being viable. By nature, "all-court" play is when the guy plays both at net and at the baseline - if one of those is unviable, then all-court play dies too.

That's what we see today. S&V is gone, and all-court play is gone with it, only baseline play is viable.

The best is when there's a mix of all sorts of styles.

yes but problem is that you can't mix styles depending on surface and be good all the year that way.

You need to concentrate on one game plan thru the whole year... Since S&V isnt so good today, everyone concentrate on BL and that's it.

Smasher08
06-17-2011, 04:22 AM
IIRC back in the 80s and 90s the criticism was that throughout the year it was never the same top players meeting regularly on the surfaces, but instead there were clay courts specialists, hard court specialists, and (somewhat) grass court specialists. Away from their specialty surface, the players' rankings didn't mean much.

With somewhat slowed down surfaces, the consistency is much better, and the top players are meeting much more often. The price was fast-court s&v tennis, although it's still de rigeur in doubles.

mcr619619
06-17-2011, 04:34 AM
what i want is a Tour with a pretty good diversity, now, it's baseliner and Power Server, with almost no S&V and little All around players... more All around players, im really not a fan of 30 grinding shot in the baseline

timeisonmyside
06-17-2011, 06:48 AM
Technique, equipment, and training come with the times. Athleticism comes with the player.

If Becker was playing today, he would also have had the benefit of the upgraded techniques, equipment, and training, and he too would be playing significantly better than he did back then. (And probably would be a baseliner :/ )

Agreed, but usually when I think about hypothetical matches between past and present players, I think about the past player being transported to the future "as-is." The premise is not "if past player A is born X years later and has modern technique and training?"

timeisonmyside
06-17-2011, 06:57 AM
I enjoyed S&V during the McEnroe domination in the early 80's. It became S&E (serve & error) when power tennis came into play in the late 80's. The current style of play is the best IMO. S&V was great during the wooden era, but not today.

+1. I used to like Pete Sampras but his "classic" matches are unwatchable now.

jackson vile
06-17-2011, 10:31 AM
Can't see this but not to say that their reflexes look so amazing.. not like todays camping on the baseline....

But still i would like to see more all-court today, not just baseL or SV.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36wpnYByAMA



I agree on the all court game, the pure S&V game was no better than the pure BL game.

It will take time for players to change how they play, schools are either teaching BL or few S&V.

One thing I want to add, I wonder if the ball is just simply moving too fast on ground shots to even allow a consistent all court game?

CCNM
06-17-2011, 01:26 PM
It would be nice for that kind of tennis to be an option...

I'd love it if we had surfaces that benefited all types of games and forced guys to change the way they played from surface to surface rather than the homogeneity that we're dealing with currently.'Tis all about the happy mediums, no?
Totally agree. BTW that's a great clip of Sampras/Krijcek.

Satch
06-17-2011, 03:31 PM
One thing I want to add, I wonder if the ball is just simply moving too fast on ground shots to even allow a consistent all court game?

are you saying that for my clip or in todays game?

I think that the ball was moving a lot faster back in the day.. Just watching 2006 US open final, and the ball was looking like 3x faster than today.

Maybe it's camera angle that adds speed a little but for sure that game is slower, and ball used is slower too.

jackson vile
06-17-2011, 03:36 PM
are you saying that for my clip or in todays game?

I think that the ball was moving a lot faster back in the day.. Just watching 2006 US open final, and the ball was looking like 3x faster than today.

Maybe it's camera angle that adds speed a little but for sure that game is slower, and ball used is slower too.

I am referring to ground game. Go back to when it was truly and all court game, the ball was not moving as fast as it is today. Players simply hit so much faster and spinner than previous.