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View Full Version : Something for all the Murray haters (& the Novak haters too)...


Ross K
06-18-2011, 09:07 AM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/jun/18/andy-murray-novak-djokovic-wimbledon

Okay, as we come up to another Wimbledon, as a Brit, I'm yet again pinning my hopes on Muzza. Once again though, around TT and elsewhere you can't help but detect the rising waves of derision and criticism, so, I thought this excellent part of a Murray article/Wimbly feature from today's Guardian newspaper, and in particular this match off between Muzza and and Djokovic, well, it might help put things nicely in some perspective.:wink:

Perhaps Novak has already more respect due to GS success - which is one reason I'm more directing this thread at the Murray haters. However, I know he has alot of critics too, so this is for them also! Anyhow, a fascinating read - and please note: these aren't the fevered views of tennis forum folk, but Pato Alvarez, Muzza's coach in his late teens, and Niki Pilic, Novak's coach in his teens... and whether he wins at Wimbledon this year or not, FWIW, I personally think, a) the derision is unwarranted, and b) he'll win one one of these days, please God!:roll:

R



Among the highlights and possible discussion points:

"For me he (Murray) is a more complete player than Nadal, Federer, and Djokovic, he can do more than all of them..."

"6 months in a row he (Novak) didn't lose one match - he won 7 tournaments, beating Nadal and Federer repeatedly on all the different surfaces. But I still think he can improve more, by going to the net more, and by not taking part in so many rallies"...

"In all my time coaching, and that includes the 16 years as National coach of Spain, Andy is the most talented player I ever worked with"...

nikdom
06-18-2011, 09:57 AM
Yes, not even Nadal moonballs as much as Murray. That really rounds out the "complete" game.

All that extra baggage in his head - negativity, lack of focus in key moments, lack of self-belief, anger and perhaps even a sense of entitlement complete the total loser package.

borg number one
06-18-2011, 10:06 AM
There are very, very few Murray and/or Djokovic "haters" out there relative to the legions of tennis fans who admire Nadal and Federer as players and what they've been able to accomplish. Most tennis fans recognize the disparity in terms of achievement, and therefore resist direct comparisons. What some view as "hate" is properly described as a pragmatic view of the top four.

nikdom
06-18-2011, 10:14 AM
There are very, very few Murray and/or Djokovic "haters" out there relative to the legions of tennis fans who admire Nadal and Federer as players and what they've been able to accomplish. Most tennis fans recognize the disparity in terms of achievement, and therefore resist direct comparisons. What some view as "hate" is properly described as a pragmatic view of the top four.

It is inevitable that folks like the OP feel that way because their own fanhood is based primarily on a sense of regionalism. Then anyone looking at a player's achievements in purely meritocratic terms seems like a hater, when its probably more their fanboyism skewing their view than others being unfairly hateful.

Defcon
06-18-2011, 10:39 AM
The reason for the 'hate' is Murray has (relatively speaking) achieved nothing in Slams, yet the hype is through the roof - almost every Slam he is declared the favorite and the best most talented player in the world, which is utter nonsense. On top of that you have his terrible attitude, obnoxious mother and entourage and its not hard too see why he isn't liked.

sarmpas
06-18-2011, 11:05 AM
In the recent Queens club final when Murray won he held his arms aloft in what appeared to be a huge release of emotion and relief that he actually won. He's done similar in past years at Wimbledon against lower ranked opposition in the minor rounds.

My take is, emotionally slams are too much for him based on what I've seen so far.

Ross K
06-18-2011, 11:24 AM
Okay, guys, let's not get too pedantic here. I'm simply saying, over recent years, there's been a lot of very negative and sometimes even hostile posts, views, scorn, whatever, directed towards Murray, and I'm just primarily saying this kind of article illustrates how far he has gone, and how good he is, and, yes, how much more he needs to do.

Am I also alone in just finding the article/views expressed, by two such esteemed coaches, highly interesting?

R

kishnabe
06-18-2011, 11:30 AM
I support Murray to win.....anyone but Nadal!

sarmpas
06-18-2011, 11:30 AM
Ross K, He has strengths that equip him well to be a potential slam winner however here's the rub which is he has other qualities which undermine his chances.

Ross K
06-18-2011, 11:51 AM
Completely in agreement. The guy is a total and born loser. Why even some people admire him I have no idea.

Yes, just who the heck is this Murray schmuck with his pathetic ranking of 4th best player on planet earth, and his measly 17 career titles thingys, and those, (what are they again?) 3 grand slam appearances, and his small-time victories over utter nonentities who have probably exagerrated their levels with names like Roger Federer and Rafa Nadal? For real, the guy really is a total and born loser!... you know what? We'd really like to see him post up a video for the boys on Tennis Tips, hell yeah.

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u291/RRohan/delpo-not-serious.jpg

:roll:



R

Mainad
06-18-2011, 11:52 AM
Completely in agreement. The guy is a total and born loser. Why even some people admire him I have no idea.

If he was a 'total and born loser' he wouldn't have won 17 ATP tour titles would he?? :roll::roll:

You need to grow up and try and be objective about players and their abilities, even the ones you don't personally like and stop posting nonsense about players and a sport you have already revealed little knowledge or understanding of!

Heracles
06-18-2011, 12:02 PM
Honestly I don't know how posting comments of their former trainers are going to convince "haters".

Murray and Djokovic are both top players who are able to win a slam. Well, for Murray, it remains to be seen as he has been pathetic at slam final for the moment. But he has the game.

tennis_fan_182
06-18-2011, 02:03 PM
Honestly I don't know how posting comments of their former trainers are going to convince "haters".

Murray and Djokovic are both top players who are able to win a slam. Well, for Murray, it remains to be seen as he has been pathetic at slam final for the moment. But he has the game.

Please do not compare Djokovic to Murray. They do not belong in the same sentence. Murray has zero slams, Djokovic has two.

You have the top three guys then there is a huge, monstrous drop in talent, then there is Murray and the rest of the tour.

Mainad
06-18-2011, 02:13 PM
Please do not compare Djokovic to Murray. They do not belong in the same sentence. Murray has zero slams, Djokovic has two.

You've just put them in the same sentence! :lol:


You have the top three guys then there is a huge, monstrous drop in talent, then there is Murray and the rest of the tour.

Hmmm...so does that include Del Potro,Roddick,Hewitt and Ferrero,all of whom have won Slams?

tennis_fan_182
06-18-2011, 02:29 PM
You've just put them in the same sentence! :lol:



Hmmm...so does that include Del Potro,Roddick,Hewitt and Ferrero,all of whom have won Slams?

My point is that Nadal is better now than Djokovic who is now better than Federer. The three of those are far and away better than anyone else. Then there are the journeymen 'rest of the tour' (including Murray) who are as bad as each other.

The only exception is Delpo because he's actually shown he has what it takes to win a slam. He is the true world number 4.

bms2011
06-18-2011, 02:52 PM
My point is that Nadal is better now than Djokovic who is now better than Federer. The three of those are far and away better than anyone else. Then there are the journeymen 'rest of the tour' (including Murray) who are as bad as each other.

The only exception is Delpo because he's actually shown he has what it takes to win a slam. He is the true world number 4.

Usually I wouldn't pull the are you on the ATP tour card but, you just called Andy Murray and everybody else on the tour bad. So, you're saying that Robin Soderling who beat Federer and Nadal at the French, Ferrer, who beat Nadal this year in Australia, Berdych, who beat Federer in Wimbledon, Andy Murray, who has made it to 3 slam finals and, recently the French Open semis, Andy Roddick who won the US Open, and Stan Wawrinka, who one the gold medal at the Olympics in doubles, are all bad? Every single person that I listed have beaten Federer, Djokovic, and Nadal before. I think that you're a good player just to get a game off of any one of them let alone win 2/3 sets off of them. So, how much prize money have you made, how many tennis trophies do you have, what's your ATP ranking, and how many sponsors do you have? Call me when you can answer any of those questions with a number higher than 0.

tennis_fan_182
06-18-2011, 03:14 PM
What did I say bms2011? I said the rest of the tour are as bad as EACH OTHER. Not as bad as ME. So you're right, you shouldn't have played the 'are you on the ATP card.'

Mainad
06-18-2011, 03:36 PM
My point is that Nadal is better now than Djokovic who is now better than Federer. The three of those are far and away better than anyone else. Then there are the journeymen 'rest of the tour' (including Murray) who are as bad as each other.

The only exception is Delpo because he's actually shown he has what it takes to win a slam. He is the true world number 4.

Why is he the only exception? Hewitt,Roddick and Ferrero have also won Slams.
Hewitt has won as many as Djokovic!

Tyrus
06-18-2011, 03:38 PM
Andy is quite talented...But talent alone doesn't exactly mean wins.

He's right where he deserves to be.

Fedex
06-18-2011, 06:09 PM
Ach what does one of the best coaches in the world, Pato Alvarez, who coached Andy Murray at the Sanchez Casal Academy know?
I'd rather listen to Nikdom.

"In all my time coaching, and that includes the 16 years as National coach of Spain, Andy is the most talented player I ever worked with"...Pato Alvarez

"Yes, not even Nadal moonballs as much as Murray. That really rounds out the complete" game.
All that extra baggage in his head - negativity, lack of focus in key moments, lack of self-belief, anger and perhaps even a sense of entitlement complete the total loser package." Nikdom

tenniselbow1
06-18-2011, 06:29 PM
Completely in agreement. The guy is a total and born loser. Why even some people admire him I have no idea.

Wow harsh buddy, made me laugh.

nikdom
06-18-2011, 06:34 PM
Hey don't fault me.. I would love to see Murray win a slam one of these days. Me, or other folks who question his mental fortitude are not the ones holding him back.

For me the "loser" tag is not one of hate but more of lament. If you snatch failure out of the jaws of victory, then you're adept at losing. Murray's performances at the biggest stages have exactly been that so far.

Take AO 2009 for example. In the semis, Murray played a fantastic aggressive game to take out Nadal. In the final, he resorted to the same old pushing against Fed and got punished.

Now you can point to all his masters titles and all that, but the fact remains that the guy gets too negative on himself. I hate that lack of faith and pusher game, especially when he is capable of more.

Anyway, you brits see as much reason regarding Murray as the serbs do regarding Djok. That nationality thing blinds every reasonable criticism.

bms2011
06-18-2011, 06:38 PM
What did I say bms2011? I said the rest of the tour are as bad as EACH OTHER. Not as bad as ME. So you're right, you shouldn't have played the 'are you on the ATP card.'

You still called them bad. Whether you are comparing them to you or to Rafael Nadal, you still called them bad and, you shouldn't call people you are better than you could ever wish to be, bad. You could say that they aren't at the level of some other players but, calling them bad is calling every other player in the world bad as well.

Bobby Jr
06-18-2011, 06:44 PM
Among the highlights and possible discussion points:

"For me he (Murray) is a more complete player than Nadal, Federer, and Djokovic, he can do more than all of them..."

Pato Alvarez is deluded in this comment.

Murray's serve to the ad court is a constant reminder of how wrong he is here, as is his forehand down the line - or rather lack of one. (Murray hits 90%+ of his running forehands cross-court). Even discounting these things he has the worst big-match mindset of the top 5.. maybe the top 10. If that isn't an important component of being great at tennis I don't know what is.

Fedex
06-18-2011, 06:53 PM
Hey don't fault me.. I would love to see Murray win a slam one of these days. Me, or other folks who question his mental fortitude are not the ones holding him back.

For me the "loser" tag is not one of hate but more of lament. If you snatch failure out of the jaws of victory, then you're adept at losing. Murray's performances at the biggest stages have exactly been that so far.

Take AO 2009 for example. In the semis, Murray played a fantastic aggressive game to take out Nadal. In the final, he resorted to the same old pushing against Fed and got punished.

Now you can point to all his masters titles and all that, but the fact remains that the guy gets too negative on himself. I hate that lack of faith and pusher game, especially when he is capable of more.

Anyway, you brits see as much reason regarding Murray as the serbs do regarding Djok. That nationality thing blinds every reasonable criticism.

You cannot say a player of Murray's quality will or will not win a Slam.
I'm as critical and realistic as any of Murray's chances and I think this year he's in the best form ever, mentaly and physically.
Unfortunately, the top 3 seem to be in great form too which makes it difficult for Murray.
And what exactly is wrong with Djokovic now?
I think the Serbs have got a lot to be proud of as do the Brits.

nikdom
06-18-2011, 06:58 PM
You cannot say a player of Murray's quality will or will not win a Slam.
I'm as critical and realistic as any of Murray's chances and I think this year he's in the best form ever, mentaly and physically.
Unfortunately, the top 3 seem to be in great form too which makes it difficult for Murray.
And what exactly is wrong with Djokovic now?
I think the Serbs have got a lot to be proud of as do the Brits.

My point is one doesn't see a whole lot of Murray fans who are otherwise not brits. That in itself points to fanhood based on nationality more so than performance. Djokovic has indeed crossed that threshold a long time ago. In fact, I don't know that Djokovic and Murray can be compared really. Until Murray wins a couple GS titles himself, Djokovic is the better player, no matter what some obscure spanish coach says.

Fedex
06-18-2011, 07:01 PM
Pato Alvarez is deluded in this comment.

Murray's serve to the ad court is a constant reminder of how wrong he is here, as is his forehand down the line - or rather lack of one. (Murray hits 90%+ of his running forehands cross-court). Even discounting these things he has the worst big-match mindset of the top 5.. maybe the top 10. If that isn't an important component of being great at tennis I don't know what is.

Murray's serve to the ad court.
Why is it a disadvantage?

Bobby Jr
06-18-2011, 07:26 PM
Murray's serve to the ad court.
Why is it a disadvantage?
- Inconsistent ball toss
- Flat dumpers in the net on most clutch points
- 2nd serve to this side is particularly prone to being in returners hitting zone

He hasn't addressed it in his time on the tour so either he doesn't know it - which shows a lack of awareness in him/his coaches, or he simply wont work on it - which shows a poor approach to improvement or a basic mental failing where he reverts to type in pressure situations.

Either way - it's an example of an area where Federer, Nadal and Djokovic consistently outperform Murray in most situations year-round contrary to what Alvarez implies.

Buckethead
06-18-2011, 07:30 PM
Hey don't fault me.. I would love to see Murray win a slam one of these days. Me, or other folks who question his mental fortitude are not the ones holding him back.

For me the "loser" tag is not one of hate but more of lament. If you snatch failure out of the jaws of victory, then you're adept at losing. Murray's performances at the biggest stages have exactly been that so far.

Take AO 2009 for example. In the semis, Murray played a fantastic aggressive game to take out Nadal. In the final, he resorted to the same old pushing against Fed and got punished.

Now you can point to all his masters titles and all that, but the fact remains that the guy gets too negative on himself. I hate that lack of faith and pusher game, especially when he is capable of more.

Anyway, you brits see as much reason regarding Murray as the serbs do regarding Djok. That nationality thing blinds every reasonable criticism.

Djokovic is no Murray dude, what are you talking about??
6 months whithout losing a match while Murray lost to Bogomolov Jr, Donald SUCK, while Djokovic was beating Fed and Nadal week after week anywhere they played and giving bagels as present to anybody else out side the top 10.

Now Djokovic has 2 majors while Murray has zero.

Murray still behaves like a little brat on court whining, cursing at his own box, bleeding like a pig, while Djokovic quit the insanity and now He behaves like man with respect to the game, like a real tennis player.

danb
06-18-2011, 07:44 PM
Djokovic is no Murray dude, what are you talking about??
6 months whithout losing a match while Murray lost to Bogomolov Jr, Donald SUCK, while Djokovic was beating Fed and Nadal week after week anywhere they played and giving bagels as present to anybody else out side the top 10.

Now Djokovic has 2 majors while Murray has zero.

Murray still behaves like a little brat on court whining, cursing at his own box, bleeding like a pig, while Djokovic quit the insanity and now He behaves like man with respect to the game, like a real tennis player.

Don't let the facts get in the way :)...
Other than his attitude he has at least a few more problems:
1. Passive play ingrained in his brain
2. Second serve
3. A so-and-so forehand, one of the weakest in top 10.

It will take a lot of luck for him to win this Wimbledon. A lot.

miyagi
06-19-2011, 12:36 AM
I am a Brit and I dont share the OP optimism for Murray. Everyone knows he is talented but he is not alone in that regard.

Even Safin (Im a huge fan btw) managed to win two slams in between getting drunk having all the parties and orgies and beating people up and also suffering from injury!

Murray hasn't fulfilled the hype that surrounds him, rather than proving something positive he has constantly proved that he cannot handle the pressure! Look at the results going down in 3 every single time, would anyone really be suprised if he lost 6-0 6-1 6-2 next time?

He may well be "more talented" than Nadal, Federer & Djoko but that makes his achievements even more embarassing how on earth is he managing to trail all 3 and by some distance?

He needs to win a slam to get the respect he and his fans crave so badly, until then stop hyping him all what is written in the article means nothing if he cannot achieve on the big stage sorry!

tennis_fan_182
06-19-2011, 03:34 AM
All these guys saying he actually is talented compared to Nadal Djokovic and Federer make me lol. The guy has embarrassingly little natural talent compared to them He is one of the biggest overachievers in the history of sport in terms of the discrepancy between his results and his severely limited physical gifts.

Didn't you see how the article said that Murray had no friends and would just practice all day whilst others could coast and get better results than him. It's like that kid with no friends in school who studies all day and night and still messes up his exams: loser.

I think don't care if there are problems with the Murray mind on grandslam final level. Fact is, he has bigger problems than that - namely his lack of game compared to the top and especially his lack of innate talent. In short it doesn't matter if he shows up or not in a gs final - he would still be beat down.

Maybe he can't perfect that serve to the ad court not through lack of practice but lack of innate ability to do it? Poor co-ordination, poor flexibility, poor strength...etc... Same for his poor forehand.

Look at Federer, Nadal and Djokovic. Then look at Murray. Does he even LOOK like an athlete?

Fedex
06-19-2011, 03:37 AM
Look at Federer, Nadal and Djokovic. Then look at Murray. Does he even LOOK like an athlete?

Exactly, thank you my friend. He does not look like an athlete therefore must have massive talent to compensate.
You said it.
3 Slam finals and 3 slam semi finals without being athletic.
Now that's impressive.

tennis_fan_182
06-19-2011, 03:38 AM
Exactly, thank you my friend. He does not look like an athlete therefore must have massive talent to compensate.
You said it.

Er no, when a huge part of tennis talent is being athletic enough to play the game. Murray isn't, therefore won't win a GS.

Zildite
06-19-2011, 03:52 AM
Look at Federer, Nadal and Djokovic. Then look at Murray. Does he even LOOK like an athlete?

Lol, you said this about Djokovic...

He looks more anorexic woman than sportsman.

and you say Murray doesn't look like an athlete compared to him?
Have you seen Andy Murray?

I'm not even his biggest fan, but this stuff is just silly.

Fedex
06-19-2011, 04:18 AM
To say that someone who has reached 3 slam finals and 3 slam semis in 6 Slams, won 17 titles, 6 masters, beaten all the top 10 players regularly, winning H2H with Federer, recent winning H2H with Djokovic, beaten Nadal in a Slam Semi and Quarter and is currently on top form WILL NEVER win a Slam is absolutely ridiculous.

Fedex
06-19-2011, 04:29 AM
Don't let the facts get in the way :)...
Other than his attitude he has at least a few more problems:
1. Passive play ingrained in his brain
2. Second serve
3. A so-and-so forehand, one of the weakest in top 10.

It will take a lot of luck for him to win this Wimbledon. A lot.

Oh so Murray will be lucky now if he wins Wimbledon.
Nothing to do with hard work, talent and current form of course.

Amazing how a guy with a passive game, weak 2nd serve and so so forehand has been number 3 and 4 in the world for 2 years, been to 3 slam finals and 3 slam semi finals, beaten all the top players, winning h2h with Federer, beaten Nadal in two slams, won 17 tournaments including 6 masters.
That is one lucky mofo guy.

Zildite
06-19-2011, 04:55 AM
You know the quote, "I'd rather be lucky than good" :)

He can play aggressively, and often does against Nadal for example, but his passive play is well documented. It doesn't mean he can't win though.
His second serve is weak, he is ranked 61st in second serve points won %. Worst in the top 10 by far. The top 3 are Djokovic, Nadal and Federer.
On the other hand, the fact that he is 3rd in return games won % and 1st in first serve return points % won offsets weaknesses he may have serving for example.
A so so forehand maybe, struggles DTL, but the rest of the sentence specifies, one of the worst in the top 10. That is not so bad especially with a BH like that.
You know what some people say about Fed's BH :)

Sure he will probably need luck, most people have a little at least. A lot would help, considering how many people other than Nadal or Federer have won slams since 2004.
He will have to play great to win, they don't hand out slam titles to anyone on the ATP these days. If it happens, hopefully it should be obvious that he has played great to make it.

kOaMaster
06-19-2011, 04:56 AM
I don't know what it is, but I have never seen a match of murray where I thought "wow, if he plays a whole tournament like this, he certainly is going to win."
Maybe it's his playstyle that is - let's face it - less attractive than nadal's defensive und fighting quality, less attractive than federer's magical touch and strong aggressive game.

murray can do everything but nothing superior. people like a player like gasquet or wawrinka with their wonderful backhands, del potro with the hammering forehand, roddick with the serve etc.

stingstang
06-19-2011, 05:14 AM
If Murray was that talented he would have walked a GS by now.

Worse players have won slams but he will have to be extremely lucky with other players being injured or work hard on his weaknesses like Djoker. Don't see it happening.

Buckethead
06-19-2011, 06:06 AM
All these guys saying he actually is talented compared to Nadal Djokovic and Federer make me lol. The guy has embarrassingly little natural talent compared to them He is one of the biggest overachievers in the history of sport in terms of the discrepancy between his results and his severely limited physical gifts.

Didn't you see how the article said that Murray had no friends and would just practice all day whilst others could coast and get better results than him. It's like that kid with no friends in school who studies all day and night and still messes up his exams: loser.

I think don't care if there are problems with the Murray mind on grandslam final level. Fact is, he has bigger problems than that - namely his lack of game compared to the top and especially his lack of innate talent. In short it doesn't matter if he shows up or not in a gs final - he would still be beat down.

Maybe he can't perfect that serve to the ad court not through lack of practice but lack of innate ability to do it? Poor co-ordination, poor flexibility, poor strength...etc... Same for his poor forehand.

Look at Federer, Nadal and Djokovic. Then look at Murray. Does he even LOOK like an athlete?

HAHA, this was funny.

Buckethead
06-19-2011, 06:12 AM
Murray is a hard worker and talented in a different way, strong work ethic to compensate for the lack of talent.

If everyone worked as hard as He does Murray would not be in the top 10, but his desire to win a major will probably give him another chance to win one.

Do i believe He will win it?? Absolutely not, for him to win He will need a lot of luck of the draws and injuries from players to win one.

Mainad
06-19-2011, 06:58 AM
Er no, when a huge part of tennis talent is being athletic enough to play the game. Murray isn't, therefore won't win a GS.

Your posts just get funnier and funnier by the minute.Murray isn't an athlete?? How the heck do you suppose he got to be the no.4 player in the world.Sheer good luck?? No,don't answer that because you'll no doubt try to make EVEN that argument! Fedex and Batz can join in the fun here by calculating the odds against which someone with 'no talent,no athletic prowess and no ability to play tennis' (according to YOU) can somehow manage to leapfrog players like Soderling,Berdych,Ferrer,Gasquet,Del Potro and all these other wonderful athletes to get to be no.4 in the world and stay in that position for the best part of 3 years!!! Answer me that one,Einstein?

The simple fact of the matter is that you're what is known as a TROLL,a poster who posts about nothing and nobody else but your ludicrous hatred of one particular tennis player. I'm guessing you're English becayse I've come across a number of English posters who deliberately aim hate-filled messages at and about Murray because he is Scottish and once supposedly said something derogatory about the England football team! I'll bet I'm right.But it's our fault for feeding you in the first place!!!

Your attempts to insult Murray are only making you look stupider and stupider by the minute.Now go away, grow up and get a life!

Fedex
06-19-2011, 07:24 AM
Your posts just get funnier and funnier by the minute.Murray isn't an athlete?? How the heck do you suppose he got to be the no.4 player in the world.Sheer good luck?? No,don't answer that because you'll no doubt try to make EVEN that argument! Fedex and Batz can join in the fun here by calculating the odds against which someone with 'no talent,no athletic prowess and no ability to play tennis' (according to YOU) can somehow manage to leapfrog players like Soderling,Berdych,Ferrer,Gasquet,Del Potro and all these other wonderful athletes to get to be no.4 in the world and stay in that position for the best part of 3 years!!! Answer me that one,Einstein?

The simple fact of the matter is that you're what is known as a TROLL,a poster who posts about nothing and nobody else but your ludicrous hatred of one particular tennis player. I'm guessing you're English becayse I've come across a number of English posters who deliberately aim hate-filled messages at and about Murray because he is Scottish and once supposedly said something derogatory about the England football team! I'll bet I'm right.But it's our fault for feeding you in the first place!!!

Your attempts to insult Murray are only making you look stupider and stupider by the minute.Now go away, grow up and get a life!

Now Buckethead. That's what I call funny.

Comet Buster
06-19-2011, 08:20 AM
Even Safin (Im a huge fan btw) managed to win two slams in between getting drunk having all the parties and orgies and beating people up and also suffering from injury!



Get real. Safin was the biggest underachiever ever! Even with the amount of injuries/temper/lack of focus he had winning 2 slams was an understatement for how much game he had. I actually rate Safin alongside Sampras and Federer as being the greatest 'talents' (I said talent not greatest) to play the game in the last 20 years or so. Murray just doesn't compare to Safin.

danb
06-19-2011, 08:49 AM
Oh so Murray will be lucky now if he wins Wimbledon.
Nothing to do with hard work, talent and current form of course.

Amazing how a guy with a passive game, weak 2nd serve and so so forehand has been number 3 and 4 in the world for 2 years, been to 3 slam finals and 3 slam semi finals, beaten all the top players, winning h2h with Federer, beaten Nadal in two slams, won 17 tournaments including 6 masters.
That is one lucky mofo guy.

His footwork is amazing and he is very smart. When his first serve clicks it usually gives Murray free points. I still think his forehand and second serve a weak compared to top 3 dogs.
For Murray to win his serve and back-end have to be on fire for both the semi and the final and his feet have to work very very well.
Does he deserve a GS? I'd say yes. Will he win this one? I would say no.
On the betting sites Murray is 3/10 he fails to reach the final...

sonicare
06-19-2011, 08:59 AM
Get real. Safin was the biggest underachiever ever! Even with the amount of injuries/temper/lack of focus he had winning 2 slams was an understatement for how much game he had. I actually rate Safin alongside Sampras and Federer as being the greatest 'talents' (I said talent not greatest) to play the game in the last 20 years or so. Murray just doesn't compare to Safin.

this

name me one thing murray does better than safin.... murray might be a hair quicker but thats it. everything else, safin does better.

sonicare
06-19-2011, 09:00 AM
His footwork is amazing and he is very smart. When his first serve clicks it usually gives Murray free points. I still think his forehand and second serve a weak compared to top 3 dogs.
For Murray to win his serve and back-end have to be on fire for both the semi and the final and his feet have to work very very well.
Does he deserve a GS? I'd say yes. Will he win this one? I would say no.
On the betting sites Murray is 3/10 he fails to reach the final...

Agreed.

How in the world can you go 0-9 against guys you matchup well against...the obvious answer is mental midgetery.

Fedex
06-19-2011, 09:02 AM
His footwork is amazing and he is very smart. When his first serve clicks it usually gives Murray free points. I still think his forehand and second serve a weak compared to top 3 dogs.
For Murray to win his serve and back-end have to be on fire for both the semi and the final and his feet have to work very very well.
Does he deserve a GS? I'd say yes. Will he win this one? I would say no.
On the betting sites Murray is 3/10 he fails to reach the final...

Agree with this.
Can't beat constructive criticism.
Some people on the other hand...

danb
06-19-2011, 11:55 AM
Agreed.

How in the world can you go 0-9 against guys you matchup well against...the obvious answer is mental midgetery.

Hmm... When the money is on the line deep down he knows his forehand is not on par with the top 3. Also his second serve is a liability in those moments.
I wouldn't say mental midget - at the end of the day the mechanics of his forehand and second server bring him down.

junk_baller
06-19-2011, 01:09 PM
Hmm... When the money is on the line deep down he knows his forehand is not on par with the top 3. Also his second serve is a liability in those moments.
I wouldn't say mental midget - at the end of the day the mechanics of his forehand and second server bring him down.

You could say that deep down, when the money is on the line Federer knows his backhand is not on par with the other top 4 either. Or that Djokovic's volleys are not on par. Or that Nadal's 1st serve and return of serve is not on par. Again, relative to the top 4. They are still able to use their weapons to mask his comparative weakness. Maybe we will yet see Murray do the same.

danb
06-19-2011, 05:19 PM
You could say that deep down, when the money is on the line Federer knows his backhand is not on par with the other top 4 either. Or that Djokovic's volleys are not on par. Or that Nadal's 1st serve and return of serve is not on par. Again, relative to the top 4. They are still able to use their weapons to mask his comparative weakness. Maybe we will yet see Murray do the same.

Fair and clear. Point made.
I wouldn't mind if Murray would win it.

bms2011
06-20-2011, 08:24 AM
All these guys saying he actually is talented compared to Nadal Djokovic and Federer make me lol. The guy has embarrassingly little natural talent compared to them He is one of the biggest overachievers in the history of sport in terms of the discrepancy between his results and his severely limited physical gifts.

Didn't you see how the article said that Murray had no friends and would just practice all day whilst others could coast and get better results than him. It's like that kid with no friends in school who studies all day and night and still messes up his exams: loser.

I think don't care if there are problems with the Murray mind on grandslam final level. Fact is, he has bigger problems than that - namely his lack of game compared to the top and especially his lack of innate talent. In short it doesn't matter if he shows up or not in a gs final - he would still be beat down.

Maybe he can't perfect that serve to the ad court not through lack of practice but lack of innate ability to do it? Poor co-ordination, poor flexibility, poor strength...etc... Same for his poor forehand.

Look at Federer, Nadal and Djokovic. Then look at Murray. Does he even LOOK like an athlete?

Murray is one of the fastest guys on tour at the moment and, his recent consistency in majors has made me believe that he has a chance at Wimbledon and any other major. He wasn't the best clay courter now look at him, he just made it to the semis of the French Open. Clay is one of the most physically demanding surfaces and he made it to the semis of the biggest clay court tournament in the world. For sure he's not athletic at all. And technically, he did win a major. The boys US O pen. It takes talent to be a top junior. He definitely proved that he was one of the the best juniors in the world by winning there.