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tenniselbow1
06-18-2011, 09:58 PM
Early May 2009: Novak 21 years old, Rafa 22
Nadal's H2H with Novak = 14-4

Since his 22nd birthday (Late May of 2009) Novak has gone 7-2 with him. H2H = 16-11 now.

Rafa prior to his 22nd birthday: Just 3 FO titles.

Novak prior to his 22nd birthday: 1 AO .

Summary... Novak in his pre-prime and prime years (after turning 22) has been a better player than Rafa. With two 3 or more match win streaks in the period. Rafa's GS win at the US Open is highly misleading in that Novak had for 1. Not reached his current state which happened late last year. He's clearly physically stronger, we do not have to even bring up the mental part. 2. The main topic of conversation during that Federer/Novak semifinal was how Federer was going to be fit to play Rafa if he won, I would think the same would apply with Novak. He was not physically 100%.

Lastly, i'm predicting (bar no injuries) this 4 match consecutive streak will reach 12-3/13-3/13-4 type numbers. Basically were going to see Novak utterly dominate Rafa in his prime. This is how they match up in my opinion.

MichaelNadal
06-18-2011, 10:07 PM
I think it would have gone 4 or 5 with Rafa winning, the form Rafa brought to the final would have edged him out. (but not easily)

TheNatural
06-18-2011, 10:14 PM
Early May 2009: Novak 21 years old, Rafa 22
Nadal's H2H with Novak = 14-4

Since his 22nd birthday (Late May of 2009) Novak has gone 7-2 with him. H2H = 16-11 now.

Rafa prior to his 22nd birthday: Just 3 FO titles.

Novak prior to his 22nd birthday: 1 AO .

Summary... Novak in his pre-prime and prime years (after turning 22) has been a better player than Rafa. With two 3 or more match win streaks in the period. Rafa's GS win at the US Open is highly misleading in that Novak had for 1. Not reached his current state which happened late last year. He's clearly physically stronger, we do not have to even bring up the mental part. 2. The main topic of conversation during that Federer/Novak semifinal was how Federer was going to be fit to play Rafa if he won, I would think the same would apply with Novak. He was not physically 100%.

Lastly, i'm predicting (bar no injuries) this 4 match consecutive streak will reach 12-3/13-3/13-4 type numbers. Basically were going to see Novak utterly dominate Rafa in his prime. This is how they match up in my opinion.

Both Federer and Djokovic need to get fitter.

Im predicting Nadal's 5-0 slam record v Joker will continue increasing.

tenniselbow1
06-19-2011, 12:29 AM
Both Federer and Djokovic need to get fitter.

Im predicting Nadal's 5-0 slam record v Joker will continue increasing.

Did you watch Rome and Madrid? Novak's is physically imposing himself on Rafa, this is Rafa's issue. He's beating him at his own game. I actually think Clay court tennis, where Rafa can't get as much penetration by stepping into the court and taking the ball early (only solutions he will have against Novak) is the worst possible surface for him. Rafa's best chances are on grass and a fast hard court against Novak, where if he plays well has a chance. Otherwise I see things looking extremely grim. With Roger, we all know what Rafa has to do to win there, he does it so well he still apologizes for it:)

Clay lover
06-19-2011, 12:33 AM
People have to remember that Novak 2.0 dominated just about everyone and Rafa was already one of the guys putting up the most fight.

So, in my opinion, either Novak keeps it up and beats everyone, or his level drops and he starts losing to Nadal again. It is not a match-up issue, the outcome is totally determined by Novak's form.

Sentinel
06-19-2011, 01:14 AM
If Noel keeps his form for the first half, he will dominate Nasal. And yes, he would have beaten Nasal at the FO 2011, but we'll never know for sure.
Nasal's best < Noel's best (as seen in several meetings)

Roger's best > Noel's best (as seen in FO 2011)

Heracles
06-19-2011, 02:02 AM
The 7-2 figures is very misleading:

Look at the breakdown:

Nadal was better than Djokovic in the first half of 2009:

He beats him 4 time.

Nadal sucked after his injury in the second half of 2009

Djokovic beats him 3 times in that period.

Nadal was better than Djokovic last year

He beats him 2 times

Djokovic was better than Nadal in the first half of this year:

He beats him 4 times.


Regarding Roland garros:

Djokovic had beaten Federer 3 times this year, but could not do it at Roland Garros. So nobody can say that it's because he had beaten Nadal 4 times before that he would have won Roland Garros. Federer showed that he was very beatable and that it's more Nadala nd him who ****ed up than the contrary.

Heracles
06-19-2011, 02:03 AM
If Noel keeps his form for the first half, he will dominate Nasal. And yes, he would have beaten Nasal at the FO 2011, but we'll never know for sure.
Nasal's best < Noel's best (as seen in several meetings)

Roger's best > Noel's best (as seen in FO 2011)


In what meetings? This year Nadal did not play his best tennis. I would say that Nadal best >>>> Djokovic best.

Djokovic was soundly outplayed by Nadal in the USO final even on fast hardcourt.

Sid_Vicious
06-19-2011, 02:04 AM
Yup, Novak exposed Rafa and his weak competition. If it weren't for the match-up issue against Roger and pretty boy Fabio, Novak would have spanked Rafa in 3-4 sets.

zagor
06-19-2011, 02:06 AM
In what meetings? This year Nadal did not play his best tennis. I would say that Nadal best >>>> Djokovic best.

Nadal reached 7 finals in a row this year(amazing feat,2006 Fed like)which clearly tells us that yes he is playing better than he ever did by some margin.

Djokovic was soundly outplayed by Nadal in the USO final even on fast hardcourt.

That was when Novak was still developing his game.Whether Nadal can beat peak Novak at USO is still a big question mark,maybe we'll find out this year.

Heracles
06-19-2011, 02:11 AM
Nadal reached 7 finals in a row this year(amazing feat,2006 Fed like)which clearly tells us that yes he is playing better than he ever did by some margin.



That was when Novak was still developing his game.Whether Nadal can beat peak Novak at USO is still a big question mark,maybe we'll find out this year.

Developping what? Djokovic played great at the USO but got outplayed by superior player.

Nadal played good in IW and Miami but choked against Djokovic. Still he was very close to beating him and was far from his USO level.

In the clay events Nadal just sucked after Barcelona. Madrid he played very bad and almost lost to Federer. Rome was even worst as qualified Lorenzi almost beat him.

Djokovic did not even play that well. Ferrer gave him an hard match, Murray served for the match and choked with DF's, Bellucci was teaching him tennis. It's just Nadal really who sucked.

Djokovic was unbeated but far from being invincible.

Federer lost to Djokovic at AO, Dubai an IW, following your reasonning he should have been crushed by Djokovic at Roland Garros, but he was not. He found his level back and eliminated Djokovic.

Magnus
06-19-2011, 02:12 AM
Nadal reached 7 finals in a row this year(amazing feat,2006 Fed like)which clearly tells us that yes he is playing better than he ever did by some margin.



That was when Novak was still developing his game.Whether Nadal can beat peak Novak at USO is still a big question mark,maybe we'll find out this year.

That or that its a weaker field than in 2006, something *******s will never admit.

TennisFan3
06-19-2011, 02:13 AM
clearly tells us that yes Nadal is playing better than he ever did by some margin.


http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/168/887/TripleFacePalm_display_image.jpg?1267690634

zagor
06-19-2011, 02:17 AM
Developping what? Djokovic played great at the USO but got outplayed by superior player.

No,Djokovic at USO last year didn't play anywhere nears as good as he did this year,especially at 2011 AO.

Nadal played good in IW and Miami but choked against Djokovic. Still he was very close to beating him and was far from his USO level.

He didn't choke,peak Novak just flat outplayed him.


In the clay events Nadal just sucked after Barcelona. Madrid he played very bad and almost lost to Federer. Rome was even worst as qualified Lorenzi almost beat him.

Nadal played some of his best CC tennis ever at Madrid and Rome but once again had no answers against peak Novak.

IDjokovic was unbeated but far from being invincible.

For around half a year yes peak Novak was invincible as evidenced by the fact that he hasn't lost a single match.

zagor
06-19-2011, 02:18 AM
That or that its a weaker field than in 2006, something *******s will never admit.

Well they can't have their cake and eat it to too,something they seem to try time and again.

bolo
06-19-2011, 02:21 AM
I agree with heracles, novak played great in the final at last years open. Nadal just got the better of him, especially with his serve which bailed nadal out in moments when novak was threatening to come back.

Heracles
06-19-2011, 02:23 AM
No,Djokovic at USO last year didn't play anywhere nears as good as he did this year,especially at 2011 AO.



He didn't choke,peak Novak just flat outplayed him.




Nadal played some of his best CC tennis ever at Madrid and Rome but once again had no answers against peak Novak.



For around half a year yes peak Novak was invincible as evidenced by the fact that he hasn't lost a single match.


- Djokovic last year at the USO played as well as he did this year, if not better.

- Nadal choked, Djokovic did not outplay him. The two match followed a similar patterd, Nadal dominated him, won the first set, then his level and his serve dropped. Anyway, close 3 setters against the best Djokovic on hardcourts was not a bad result.

- Nadal played his worst clay court tennis ever at Madrid and Roma. In fact the only time I have seen him playing worst on clay was Roland Garros 2009 and Roma 2008. But he was so bad it did not even look like it was Nadal.


Overall Djokovic was far from being unbeatable. He did not lose because Nadal and Federer were in a slump, because Murray choked and that he was stronger mentally than the other who troubled him because of his confidence.

zagor
06-19-2011, 02:26 AM
Djokovic last year at the USO played as well as he did this year, if not better.

No,he played far worse at USO last year.Almost lost to his lapdog Troicki,was down MPs against old men Fed(who was himself playing crappy tennis),contrast to AO this year where he just flat out dominated.

Nadal choked, Djokovic did not outplay him. The two match followed a similar patterd, Nadal dominated him, won the first set, then his level and his serve dropped. Anyway, close 3 setters against the best Djokovic on hardcourts was not a bad result.

Wrong,peak Novak had a slow start in both IW and Miami but once he found his game peak Nadal was toast.

Nadal played his worst clay court tennis ever at Madrid and Roma. In fact the only time I have seen him playing worst on clay was Roland Garros 2009 and Roma 2008. But he was so bad it did not even look like it was Nadal.

No,Nadal was playing his best CC tennis ever this year,the game is always evolving and Nadal improved as well to keep up.

Overall Djokovic was far from being unbeatable.

Actually not losing a match for half a year is quite the opposite,it's very close to being unbeatable.

Sid_Vicious
06-19-2011, 02:30 AM
[QUOTE=Heracles;5756790]- Djokovic last year at the USO played as well as he did this year, if not better.
Complete and utter rubbish. It is clear as day that Djokovic took his entire game to the next level in 2011.
- Nadal choked, Djokovic did not outplay him. The two match followed a similar patterd, Nadal dominated him, won the first set, then his level and his serve dropped. Anyway, close 3 setters against the best Djokovic on hardcourts was not a bad result.

Ha! So when Nadal beat Djokovic, novak was apparently playing better than he was in 2011 yet when Novak beat Nadal, you claim that it was due to chokes and a slump. These comments provide some epic lulz as they don't even have a shred of objectivity.

Heracles
06-19-2011, 02:30 AM
No,he played far worse.



Wrong,peak Novak had a slow start in both IW and Miami but once he found his game peak Nadal was toast.



No,Nadal was playing his best CC tennis ever this year,the game is always evolving and Nadal improved as well to keep up.



Actually not losing a match for half a year is quite the opposite,it's very close to being unbeatable.

He did not play worse.

That's wrong again. Nadal serve dropped to 25% after the first set in IW and I would not call going to the tie break of the third in Miami being toast after the first set.

Nadal was completely awful in Madrid and Roma and in the beginning of Roland Garros. The game is not improving. Nadal played a much worse clay season than he ever had.

No it's not close to being unbeatable. It's just being unbeaten. Novak was outplayed at time but somehow survived. As soon as he ran into a hot player, Federer at RG, he lost.

Sid_Vicious
06-19-2011, 02:33 AM
He did not play worse.

That's wrong again. Nadal serve dropped to 25% after the first set in IW and I would not call going to the tie break of the third in Miami being toast after the first set.

Nadal was completely awful in Madrid and Roma and in the beginning of Roland Garros. The game is not improving. Nadal played a much worse clay season than he ever had.

No it's not close to being unbeatable. It's just being unbeaten. Novak was outplayed at time but somehow survived. As soon as he ran into a hot player, Federer at RG, he lost.

Nah that is wrong. Novak was in a slump and choked that match away.

zagor
06-19-2011, 02:34 AM
He did not play worse.

He didn't play worse,he played far worse.

That's wrong again. Nadal serve dropped to 25% after the first set in IW and I would not call going to the tie break of the third in Miami being toast after the first set.

IW:Nadal 1st serve dropped because of the pressure Novak was putting with his ROS.

Miami: Details,once peak Novak found his game after the 1st set he won the next two.

Nadal was completely awful in Madrid and Roma and in the beginning of Roland Garros. The game is not improving. Nadal played a much worse clay season than he ever had.

On the contrary,Nadal was amazing in Madrid and Rome,2011 version of Nadal(ie the peak version)would beat any other version of Nadal easily.

Not it's not close to being unbeatable.

Yes,it is.

zagor
06-19-2011, 02:35 AM
Nah that is wrong. Novak was in a slump and choked that match away.

Pretty boy Fabio trolled Novak's rhytm.

Heracles
06-19-2011, 02:38 AM
He didn't play worse,he played far worse.



IW:Nadal 1st serve dropped because of the pressure Novak was putting with his ROS.

Miami: Details,once peak Novak found his game after the 1st set he won the next two.



On the contrary,Nadal was amazing in Madrid and Rome,2011 version of Nadal(ie the peak version)would beat any other version of Nadal easily.



Yes,it is.

He played well, as good as he was this year.

This is non sense. In IW Nadal was dominating and his serve suddenly dropped to 20% , probably his worst stat ever.

In Miami Novak needed the tie break to win.


Now I know that you are trolling. Nadal 2011 version would have lost to all other previous Nadal in the clay season.

Sid_Vicious
06-19-2011, 02:40 AM
He played well, as good as he was this year.

This is non sense. In IW Nadal was dominating and his serve suddenly dropped to 20% , probably his worst stat ever.

In Miami Novak needed the tie break to win.


Now I know that you are trolling. Nadal 2001 version would have lost to all other previous Nadal in the clay season.

Really? Funny, we thought you were the troll when you claimed that Djokovic played as good OR BETTER (:lol:) in the USO final than he has in 2011.

zagor
06-19-2011, 02:41 AM
He played well, as good as he was this year.

No,he played far better this year,their levels are not even comparable.

This is non sense. In IW Nadal was dominating and his serve suddenly dropped to 20% , probably his worst stat ever.

Novak's return of serve and fighting spirit put an amazing amount pressure on the server.Against a lesser opponent Nadal would have served lights out.

In Miami Novak needed the tie break to win.

Yes,he played far from his best but found a way to win anyway,he found his 2011 AO form in Madrid and Rome again.

INadal 2011 version would have lost to all other previous Nadal in the clay season.

Nah,it's the other way around,evolution of the game.

abmk
06-19-2011, 02:43 AM
LOL. 2011 djoker >>> djoker in 2010 USO finals. Nadal would've been lucky to get a set vs 2011 djoker on a fast HC , well maybe if djoker had a slow start like he did at Miami/IW , otherwise no

Heracles
06-19-2011, 02:50 AM
No,he played far better this year,their levels are not even comparable.



Novak's return of serve and fighting spirit put an amazing amount pressure on the server.Against a lesser opponent Nadal would have served lights out.



Yes,he played far from his best but found a way to win anyway,he found his 2011 AO form in Madrid and Rome again.



Nah,it's the other way around,evolution of the game.

They are perfectly comparable. Nadal was just so much better at the USO 2010 compared to now.

Novak return did not put anything to explain Nadal very low percentage. Navak was gifted the right to play second ball at every point and that's why he won.

In Madrid Djokovic was outplayed by Bellucci and troubled by Ferrer. In Roma Murray served for the match and choked with DF's. But he beat Nadal easily because Nadal was very bad, worst than Murray, Bellucci and Ferrer in these tournaments.

As soon as Djokovic met an top player playing well, he lost or was close to losing (Federer RG, Nadal miami, Murray Roma)

zagor
06-19-2011, 02:51 AM
LOL. 2011 djoker >>> djoker in 2010 USO finals. Nadal would've been lucky to get a set vs 2011 djoker on a fast HC , well maybe if djoker had a slow start like he did at Miami/IW , otherwise no

Trolling aside I'm not sure I agree,I think Novak was slowly finding his 2007-2008 form in USO last year after that stinker against Troicki but he wasn't hitting the spots as well with his serve yet,his serve seems to have finally returned to its best level at 2010 DC and has stayed with him as a weapon since.

In 2010 USO Nadal was playing far above his average level on fast HC,it could have very well been a five setter if 2011 Novak played 2010 Nadal at USO although I'd probably pick Novak in 4(the serve can make a huge difference).

abmk
06-19-2011, 02:55 AM
Trolling aside I'm not sure I agree,I think Novak was slowly finding his 2007-2008 form in USO last year after that stinker against Troicki but he wasn't hitting the spots as well with his serve yet,his serve seems to have finally returned to its best level at 2010 DC and has stayed with him as a weapon since.

In 2010 USO Nadal was playing far above his average level on fast HC,it could have very well been a five setter if 2011 Novak played 2010 Nadal at USO although I'd probably pick Novak in 4(the serve can make a huge difference).

well, two of the greatest differences were his serve and his confidence/mental strength.

He played good tennis in USO 2010, but again like you said, his serve still needed quite a bit of work. He was also less offensive than he should've been IMO . I'd pick Novak in 4 too if he played at his 2011 level

Sid_Vicious
06-19-2011, 02:56 AM
They are perfectly comparable. Nadal was just so much better at the USO 2010 compared to now.

Novak return did not put anything to explain Nadal very low percentage. Navak was gifted the right to play second ball at every point and that's why he won.

In Madrid Djokovic was outplayed by Bellucci and troubled by Ferrer. In Roma Murray served for the match and choked with DF's. But he beat Nadal easily because Nadal was very bad, worst than Murray, Bellucci and Ferrer in these tournaments.

As soon as Djokovic met an top player playing well, he lost or was close to losing (Federer RG, Nadal miami, Murray Roma)
That is because Novak is a fighter and was able to fend of personal family problems and still beat top players. Novak was below his AO 2011 level during the clay season because his brother Marko broke his arm. What really ended Novak's incredible streak was his broken heart when his dad got up and left in the middle of his match against Federer. The emotional pain caused him to lose that match and with it RG '11.

zagor
06-19-2011, 03:00 AM
well, two of the greatest differences were the serve and his confidence/mental strength.

He played good tennis in USO 2010, but again like you said, his serve still needed quite a bit of work. He was also less offensive than he should've been IMO . I'd pick Novak in 4 too if he played at his 2011 level

We agree about the serve but as for being more offensive while I agree that Novak should have tried to force the issue more from the baseline in their 2010 USO final thing is even this year Novak wasn't as aggressive from the baseline as he was in 2007/2008 in general but specifically in his encounters with Nadal as well.

It's mostly his old serve,improved defense,ROS,fitness and mental concentration on court that brought Novak so much success this year.In his 4 wins against Nadal this year he was mostly beating Nadal in his own game rather than trying to blow him off court like he did in some of their earlier encounters.

abmk
06-19-2011, 03:12 AM
We agree about the serve but as for being more offensive while I agree that Novak should have tried to force the issue more from the baseline in their 2010 USO final thing is even this year Novak wasn't as aggressive from the baseline as he was in 2007/2008 in general but specifically in his encounters with Nadal as well.

It's mostly his old serve,improved defense,ROS,fitness and mental concentration on court that brought Novak so much success this year.In his 4 wins against Nadal this year he was mostly beating Nadal in his own game rather than trying to blow him off court like he did in some of their earlier encounters.

agreed, trying to beat nadal at his own game worked for nole this year on slower courts. But he'd probably be better off trying to revert back to more aggressive play on the faster courts

tenniselbow1
06-19-2011, 04:48 AM
Anyone who says 2010 Novak = 2011 Novak should be discredited, openly berated, and banned from posting for a month and only allowed to come back after proving he/she is on medication. I've never heard of anything so ridiculously stupid. What desperation and fear for one's favorite player can cause is amazing.

tenniselbow1
06-19-2011, 04:50 AM
Trolling aside I'm not sure I agree,I think Novak was slowly finding his 2007-2008 form in USO last year after that stinker against Troicki but he wasn't hitting the spots as well with his serve yet,his serve seems to have finally returned to its best level at 2010 DC and has stayed with him as a weapon since.

In 2010 USO Nadal was playing far above his average level on fast HC,it could have very well been a five setter if 2011 Novak played 2010 Nadal at USO although I'd probably pick Novak in 4(the serve can make a huge difference).

Deemed as sane.

tenniselbow1
06-19-2011, 04:57 AM
agreed, trying to beat nadal at his own game worked for nole this year on slower courts. But he'd probably be better off trying to revert back to more aggressive play on the faster courts

Completely agree. Rafa's best chance against Novak2.0 is on a super fast court. Faster the better for Rafa against Novak at the moment.

Heracles
06-19-2011, 06:10 AM
Anyone who says 2010 Novak = 2011 Novak should be discredited, openly berated, and banned from posting for a month and only allowed to come back after proving he/she is on medication. I've never heard of anything so ridiculously stupid. What desperation and fear for one's favorite player can cause is amazing.

Anyone who say that 2010 Djokovic is the same than 2010 USO Djokovic should be immediately banned.

Djokovic was average for most of 2010 but played great in USO and Davis Cup. This is not even debatable.

tenniselbow1
06-19-2011, 07:36 AM
Anyone who say that 2010 Djokovic is the same than 2010 USO Djokovic should be immediately banned.

Djokovic was average for most of 2010 but played great in USO and Davis Cup. This is not even debatable.

You sir are an unfortunate contribution to this thread. I'll just go ahead an say what most people think. Better yet I'll open a thread and poll this question to show you how ignorant your sounding, if you don't keep quiet.

Heracles
06-19-2011, 08:19 AM
You sir are an unfortunate contribution to this thread. I'll just go ahead an say what most people think. Better yet I'll open a thread and poll this question to show you how ignorant your sounding, if you don't keep quiet.

You are so weak minded that I will deal without any difficulty with you and the other anti Nadal trolls as usual.

jones101
06-19-2011, 08:33 AM
Current Nadal resorted to lobs/moonballs while Djoker was on the baseline to try and get through him, on clay no less, so I think at present its Djoker.

DjokovicForTheWin
06-19-2011, 08:50 AM
Wow it's mind-boggling to see that people are actually equating Novak's form at the USO2010 with his form of 2011. It's a completely different breed of Novak that is playing now. This is not to say Novak didn't play well in USO2010, but in 2011 he is simply playing on a different level. There is no form that Nadal has displayed at any point in his career on any surface that could defeat Novak of 2011. Sure their first two HC matches of 2011 were close, but that was because Novak was not playing his best in those matches the way he did in AO2011 and Rome and Madrid. Nadal's FO2011 was essentially gifted to him by Roger Federer.

MichaelNadal
06-19-2011, 12:05 PM
Wow it's mind-boggling to see that people are actually equating Novak's form at the USO2010 with his form of 2011. It's a completely different breed of Novak that is playing now. This is not to say Novak didn't play well in USO2010, but in 2011 he is simply playing on a different level. There is no form that Nadal has displayed at any point in his career on any surface that could defeat Novak of 2011. Sure their first two HC matches of 2011 were close, but that was because Novak was not playing his best in those matches the way he did in AO2011 and Rome and Madrid. Nadal's FO2011 was essentially gifted to him by Roger Federer.

:):):)
I find this so funny. So Novak is playing THAT MUCH BETTER and Rafa is OBVIOUSLY not playing as well as he did last year but somehow he was 2 points away from winning Miami? GTFO!!! A lot of u guys need to watch the USO final again. It's just as impressive as everything he's done this year IMO, I haven't been anymore impressed. The difference is Rafa OUTPLAYED him, like it or not. And I hope he does it again at Wimbledon to kill your argument.

DjokovicForTheWin
06-19-2011, 12:16 PM
^^^ On the contrary, I do think Nadal is playing as good as he did last year, it's just not good enough to beat Novak. Nadal's is simply an inferior tennis player to Novak2011. That Nadal was 2 points away from winning the HC Master's shows that he in fact was playing as good as last year if not better, and he STILL lost against subpar Novak. That Novak was subpar there was proven by the fact that it went to 3 sets on his best surface and he demolished Nadal in straight sets twice on Nadal's best surface.

abmk
06-19-2011, 12:20 PM
:):):)
I find this so funny. So Novak is playing THAT MUCH BETTER and Rafa is OBVIOUSLY not playing as well as he did last year but somehow he was 2 points away from winning Miami? GTFO!!! A lot of u guys need to watch the USO final again. It's just as impressive as everything he's done this year IMO, I haven't been anymore impressed. The difference is Rafa OUTPLAYED him, like it or not. And I hope he does it again at Wimbledon to kill your argument.

No, I've watched it twice and the bold part isn't true at all . He played well, but not as well as he did in 2011 when playing well. Main differences being his serve and confidence.

Nadal's best chances vs Novak are at Wimbledon now btw

zagor
06-19-2011, 12:21 PM
Both Nadal and Novak are playing better in 2011 than in 2010,simply because the game is always evolving and players have to improve every year to keep up(unless they're too old but we're talking about two young players at their peaks here).

So basically Nadal improved since last year but Novak improved even more :).

MichaelNadal
06-19-2011, 12:22 PM
^^^ On the contrary, I do think Nadal is playing as good as he did last year, it's just not good enough to beat Novak. Nadal's is simply an inferior tennis player to Novak2011. That Nadal was 2 points away from winning the HC Master's shows that he in fact was playing as good as last year if not better, and he STILL lost against subpar Novak. That Novak was subpar there was proven by the fact that it went to 3 sets on his best surface and he demolished Nadal in straight sets twice on Nadal's best surface.

There is so much fail in this paragraph I don't even know where to begin. So which is it, Nadal was close because he's playing better than ever or Novak was subpar? Anyone on this board, I don't care who you are a fan of.... ANYONE that says Nadal is playing better tennis than he ever has, has lost every shred of credibility they have. Analysts, commentators, fans, and even Nadal himself has said he is not playing to his abilities, it's more than obvious. Stevie Wonder can see that in the basement. Hes had a little bit of luck that no one else is really playing that great either... hence the 7 finals. You can watch HIGHLIGHTS of any Rafa match this year and not be impressed at all. He finally started playing well in the quarters of the FO, and brought a good level to the final after that slow start. Novak would have closed the door on the first set, but the level Rafa brought after that would have won in 4 or 5. 2010 Rafa would demolish 2011 Rafa.

zagor
06-19-2011, 12:30 PM
There is so much fail in this paragraph I don't even know where to begin. So which is it, Nadal was close because he's playing better than ever or Novak was subpar? Anyone on this board, I don't care who you are a fan of.... ANYONE that says Nadal is playing better tennis than he ever has, has lost every shred of credibility they have. Analysts, commentators, fans, and even Nadal himself has said he is not playing to his abilities, it's more than obvious. Stevie Wonder can see that in the basement. Hes had a little bit of luck that no one else is really playing that great either... hence the 7 finals. You can watch HIGHLIGHTS of any Rafa match this year and not be impressed at all. He finally started playing well in the quarters of the FO, and brought a good level to the final after that slow start. Novak would have closed the door on the first set, but the level Rafa brought after that would have won in 4 or 5. 2010 Rafa would demolish 2011 Rafa.

So Nadal is supposedly playing so much worse than before yet he reached 7 finals in a row(something he never did in his career)with a very possible 8th final coming at Wimbledon,is this a weak era then? What are the possible explanations?

Hitman
06-19-2011, 12:35 PM
So Nadal is supposedly playing so much worse than before yet he reached 7 finals in a row(something he never did in his career)with a very possible 8th final coming at Wimbledon,is this a weak era then? What are the possible explanations?

I think if Novak didn't catch the form he did. Nadal would have probably swept everything from IW to now. Thats FIVE straight MS plus a slam. Since only an inform, confident Djoker has stopped him, in finals nonetheless.

If Nadal is playing that poorly, and still having such a remarkable run that he has, then you may have a point about a weak era.

DjokovicForTheWin
06-19-2011, 12:51 PM
Nadal is obviously playing better than he ever has. The results speak for themselves, 7 consecutive finals. All else is just the subjective opinions of the *****. The data never lie. Nadal is playing incredible tennis, Novak is simply better. I can understand how hard that fact is to accept for the *****, but denial won't change the truth. Nadal is still a great player, nothing to be ashamed of. Some people are just better than you, and you have to live with it.

zagor
06-19-2011, 12:58 PM
I think if Novak didn't catch the form he did. Nadal would have probably swept everything from IW to now. Thats FIVE straight MS plus a slam. Since only an inform, confident Djoker has stopped him, in finals nonetheless.

If Nadal is playing that poorly, and still having such a remarkable run that he has, then you may have a point about a weak era.

Yet according to most Nadal fans this is an amazingly strong era,there seems to be some conflicted statements here that don't make a lot of sense when put together.

I mean Nadal who is supposedly playing so much worse than last year reached both IW and Miami finals and lost close matches to Novak(the guy who's 41-1 this year)yet last year when he played so much better he was losing to Ljubicic and Roddick(both way past their prime)in those same tourneys,players who are very often deemed as "weak era" chumps.Even if we go back to 2008(start of the "real" Nadal)he lost to another "weak era" player Davydenko in the Miami final,in straights no less.

It all seems a bit iffy to be honest.Keeping in mind that it's Nadal fans who use "weak era" argument so often,I personally don't consider any era to be weak.

Omega_7000
06-19-2011, 01:07 PM
So Nadal is supposedly playing so much worse than before yet he reached 7 finals in a row(something he never did in his career)with a very possible 8th final coming at Wimbledon,is this a weak era then? What are the possible explanations?

http://michaeljacksonanimatedgifs.com/images/others/mjgif330.gif

Hitman
06-19-2011, 01:19 PM
Yet according to most Nadal fans this is an amazingly strong era,there seems to be some conflicted statements here that don't make a lot of sense when put together.

I mean Nadal who is supposedly playing so much worse than last year reached both IW and Miami finals and lost close matches to Novak(the guy who's 41-1 this year)yet last year when he played so much better he was losing to Ljubicic and Roddick(both way past their prime)in those same tourneys,players who are very often deemed as "weak era" chumps.Even if we go back to 2008(start of the "real" Nadal)he lost to another "weak era" player Davydenko in the Miami final,in straights no less.

It all seems a bit iffy to be honest.Keeping in mind that it's Nadal fans who use "weak era" argument so often,I personally don't consider any era to be weak.

I really ain't a fan of all this weak era talk. It is funny that many *******s - I won't say Nadal Fans, because there are some here that are reasonable, and very good posters - the real Nadal fans - However there are these ***** that just make me shake my head.

The logic - Federer won all his titles in a weak era. Nadal won all his titles in a strong era.

What is wrong with this picture? Nadal was dominating clay, racking up 81 match winning streaks, winning his first four FO titles, reaching wimbledon finals, and was outright world number two pretty much a year after Federer took the top spot. Was Nadal winning his titles in a parallel dimension or something...did we have clay court monsters appear for the MC to FO swing, and vanish, so we have pathetic losers to fill out the rest of the season? Didn't Nadal also win his titles against the same field that Federer was winning against?

So, then I see some ***** saying, the competition was too young. They are now there, and it is the toughest ever.

But wait...

If anything Nadal has been winning even MORE. The guy sweeps three slams last year and starts putting up Federer like numbers. However Nadal is in his prime. But just because Federer is not winning, it is a strong era.

Nadal injures himself at AO, takes several weeks off. Comes back at IW on his worst surface, that the *******s would say, and beats virtually everbody, having coming back from an injury and goes three sets with an inform Novak. And then does it again in Miami only a week later...

So, if Nadal can come back from an injury on his worst surface, go through a field as deep as IW, and goes three sets with Novak, the player of the year. and then repeat it in Miami. What does that say about the era?

Nadal has been playing great. Novak has just simply been better this season so far.

TennisFan3
06-19-2011, 01:46 PM
No, I've watched it twice and the bold part isn't true at all . He played well, but not as well as he did in 2011 when playing well. Main differences being his serve and confidence.


True. Huge difference between Novak of 2011 and Novak of 2010 UsOpen.
But then there is also a difference between Nadal of 2011 and Nadal of UsO 2010.

That said, I agree the gulf is larger in Novak's case. I still think Novak's best tennis of the year came in AO 2011 - especially against Fed in the SF, where Fed wasn't playing bad, but lost in straights.

So yeah, if it's Novak of 2011 AO vs Nadal of 2010 UsOpen -> I can see Novak winning, albeit in a close match of 4 or 5 sets.. (unlike their clay encounters this year).

Overall, Novak's best right now is probably better than Nadal's best - that much is true. The Djoker has become a fantastic player and he always matched up well against Rafa, which gives him an advantage. This is not to say that Nadal cannot beat him, but that Nadal will need his absolute best to do so, and it will remain a sour matchup in the near future.

Lastly... it's annoying to see people going on here about 2011 Nadal playing the best tennis of his career. That's foolish at best, and borderline insane at worst. In fact, this F.O and clay court season was among the worst of Nadal's career (in terms of form), and he was lucky to win the F.O - given how he played compared to his usual high standards. It's like Fed winning the F.O 2009 -- not playing great tennis, but managed to scrape through anyhow..

MichaelNadal
06-19-2011, 02:09 PM
So Nadal is supposedly playing so much worse than before yet he reached 7 finals in a row(something he never did in his career)with a very possible 8th final coming at Wimbledon,is this a weak era then? What are the possible explanations?

Im not one of the guys going around saying it's a strong era, it's not about era. Results and form do not always go hand in hand. Reason it to whatever you want to, I don't care if he reaches 90 finals in a row, he isn't playing better tennis than 08 or 10. Troll all you want. And everyone is coming down on us because you think we're trying to make excuses for him losing to Novak, that's NOT IT. At least not for me. Novak IS PLAYING BETTER TENNIS THAN RAFA AND HAS OUTPLAYED HIM IN ALL 4 MATCHES THIS YEAR. I have no problem with that, I like Novak. But don't interject silly crap like "Rafa is playing the tennis of his life but is still being outplayed" that's ridiculous. And anyone saying that obviously hasn't seen Rafa play on clay before this year. (and I agree with everything you said in your post TF3) Especially the last bit.

TennisFan3
06-19-2011, 02:17 PM
Im not one of the guys going around saying it's a strong era, it's not about era. Results and form do not always go hand in hand. Reason it to whatever you want to, I don't care if he reaches 90 finals in a row, he isn't playing better tennis than 08 or 10. Troll all you want. And everyone is coming down on us because you think we're trying to make excuses for him losing to Novak, that's NOT IT. At least not for me. Novak IS PLAYING BETTER TENNIS THAN RAFA AND HAS OUTPLAYED HIM IN ALL 4 MATCHES THIS YEAR. I have no problem with that, I like Novak. But don't interject silly crap like "Rafa is playing the tennis of his life but is still being outplayed" that's ridiculous. And anyone saying that obviously hasn't seen Rafa play on clay before this year.

http://www.y920.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/beer_cheers1.jpg

As I said before, anyone claiming that Nadal is playing the best tennis of his life probably didn't watch the matches or is trolling.

This is not to say Nadal's best would be enough to handle the Novak 2.0 obviously..

tenniselbow1
06-19-2011, 02:19 PM
True. Huge difference between Novak of 2011 and Novak of 2010 UsOpen.
But then there is also a difference between Nadal of 2011 and Nadal of UsO 2010.

That said, I agree the gulf is larger in Novak's case. I still think Novak's best tennis of the year came in AO 2011 - especially against Fed in the SF, where Fed wasn't playing bad, but lost in straights.

So yeah, if it's Novak of 2011 AO vs Nadal of 2010 UsOpen -> I can see Novak winning, albeit in a close match of 4 or 5 sets.. (unlike their clay encounters this year).

Overall, Novak's best right now is probably better than Nadal's best - that much is true. The Djoker has become a fantastic player and he always matched up well against Rafa, which gives him an advantage. This is not to say that Nadal cannot beat him, but that Nadal will need his absolute best to do so, and it will remain a sour matchup in the near future.

Lastly... it's annoying to see people going on here about 2011 Nadal playing the best tennis of his career. That's foolish at best, and borderline insane at worst. In fact, this F.O and clay court season was among the worst of Nadal's career (in terms of form), and he was lucky to win the F.O - given how he played compared to his usual high standards. It's like Fed winning the F.O 2009 -- not playing great tennis, but managed to scrape through anyhow..


Every single Nadal ****/Fanboy should read the above. Every line is point on an accurate assessment of the topic of this thread. Bravo. +1 vote for credibility.

MichaelNadal
06-19-2011, 02:30 PM
Every single Nadal ****/Fanboy should read the above. Every line is point on an accurate assessment of the topic of this thread. Bravo. +1 vote for credibility.

Well that's what most of us are saying. The ***** on the other side just aren't listening bc they are insisting Nadal is playing out of his skin.

DjokovicForTheWin
06-19-2011, 02:32 PM
Nadal himself admits he's a better player today than ever:

http://media.wimbledon.org/2011/web/nadal_interview_512x288_800.mp4

at 14:03.

MichaelNadal
06-19-2011, 02:44 PM
Nadal himself admits he's a better player today than ever:

http://media.wimbledon.org/2011/web/nadal_interview_512x288_800.mp4

at 14:03.

Sure, he is a better player than ever especially compared to his early days, he has many more tools, better serve, better volleys etc. There's a difference between being a better player than ever, and actually playing well/playing to your capabilities. He has said about 30 times this year that he has not played well at all. And even thought he wouldn't win the French.

jackson vile
06-19-2011, 02:46 PM
http://myfunnyworld.net/animations/Animated_gifs/jacko/michael-jackson-3.gif

Fail.......................

DjokovicForTheWin
06-19-2011, 02:51 PM
Bottom line is this. Nadal is 25 and in his prime/peak. Djokovic is now playing his best (or perhaps he's not even at this peak yet) and has beaten Nadal repeatedly. peak Djoker > peak Nadal. No ifs ands or buts.

Sid_Vicious
06-19-2011, 02:52 PM
Fail.......................

Be nice, jackson. You are a big failure yourself. Look at your bottom post for a nice example of fail.
They are scared to death, they will vote Roger for the win. However, in all honestly they are thinking there is yet another emanate loss coming.

Magnus
06-19-2011, 02:53 PM
:):):)
I find this so funny. So Novak is playing THAT MUCH BETTER and Rafa is OBVIOUSLY not playing as well as he did last year but somehow he was 2 points away from winning Miami? GTFO!!! A lot of u guys need to watch the USO final again. It's just as impressive as everything he's done this year IMO, I haven't been anymore impressed. The difference is Rafa OUTPLAYED him, like it or not. And I hope he does it again at Wimbledon to kill your argument.

Djokovic almost lost to Troicki in that event, and faced two MPs in a long, tough match against Fed. He played OK in the final, but he didn't have a lot of gas left in the tank. This year he dominated everyone like they were all his puppets. Just for the sake of comparison, Troicki, a guy who took Novak to 5 sets at the USO, barely won any GAMES from him in the matches they played this year. Need more examples? Fed bet Novak 3 times last year after the USO (Shanghai, Basel, and a huge beatdown at WTF), and this year he won only one set against Novak in 3 matches, up until the FO. Novak has been unbeatable for the first part of the year (literally), and you know deep inside that Nadal is happy he didn't need to face him at the FO final.

MichaelNadal
06-19-2011, 02:56 PM
Bottom line is this. Nadal is 25 and in his prime/peak. Djokovic is now playing his best (or perhaps he's not even at this peak yet) and has beaten Nadal repeatedly. peak Djoker > peak Nadal. No ifs ands or buts.

Lol later troll.
Peak Djoker> 2011 Nadal I completely agree.

MichaelNadal
06-19-2011, 03:01 PM
Djokovic almost lost to Troicki in that event, and faced two MPs in a long, tough match against Fed. He played OK in the final, but he didn't have a lot of gas left in the tank. This year he dominated everyone like they were all his puppets. Just for the sake of comparison, Troicki, a guy who took Novak to 5 sets at the USO, barely won any GAMES from him in the matches they played this year. Need more examples? Fed bet Novak 3 times last year after the USO (Shanghai, Basel, and a huge beatdown at WTF), and this year he won only one set against Novak in 3 matches, up until the FO. Novak has been unbeatable for the first part of the year (literally), and you know deep inside that Nadal is happy he didn't need to face him at the FO final.

Yes, Djoker is playing better this year, but its not like he has rockets in his shoes now and he is some robot or something is what im saying, the way people are making him out to be. He can be beat. And hell yeah Rafa was happy he didn't have to play him, he was being owned and he wasn't playing worth a damn. It's not all about Novak's form.

DjokovicForTheWin
06-19-2011, 03:10 PM
Lol later troll.
Peak Djoker> 2011 Nadal I completely agree.

LOL Yeah right troll.

2011 Nadal = peak Nadal. GLad you agree. :)

viduka0101
06-19-2011, 03:22 PM
LOL Yeah right troll.

2011 Nadal = peak Nadal. GLad you agree. :)

I understand that you want your man to have all the glory he can get but in 2011 Nadal hasn't played the best tennis of his career
IMO that should be pretty obvious to someone who has,at least watched tennis in the past 3 years

DjokovicForTheWin
06-19-2011, 03:24 PM
I understand that you want your man to have all the glory he can get but in 2011 Nadal hasn't played the best tennis of his career
IMO that should be pretty obvious to someone who has,at least watched tennis in the past 3 years

Disagreed, IMO Nadal has played his best tennis ever in 2011. The objective results he's had back up my view. What backs up your view other than your subjective opinion?

viduka0101
06-19-2011, 03:26 PM
Disagreed, IMO Nadal has played his best tennis ever in 2011. The objective results he's had back up my view. What backs up your view other than your subjective opinion?

what are those?

DjokovicForTheWin
06-19-2011, 03:28 PM
which are those?

7 consecutive finals.

viduka0101
06-19-2011, 03:36 PM
7 consecutive finals.

yeah, so?
in 2009 he had more points by the time RG began than in 2011, possibly even after RG ended

IMO he was at his best(playing his best tennis) from the start of the 2008 clay-court season till the end of the 2009 clay-court season (when the injury came along)

MichaelNadal
06-19-2011, 03:37 PM
yeah, so?
in 2009 he had more points by the time RG began than in 2011, possibly even after RG ended

IMO he was at his best(playing his best tennis) from the start of the 2008 clay-court season till the end of the 2009 clay-court season (when the injury came along)

He knows, it's just more fun to be a troll I guess. This place can really be ridiculous.

DjokovicForTheWin
06-19-2011, 03:41 PM
yeah, so?
in 2009 he had more points by the time RG began than in 2011, possibly even after RG ended

IMO he was at his best(playing his best tennis) from the start of the 2008 clay-court season till the end of the 2009 clay-court season (when the injury came along)

LOL, yeah convenient how his best revolves around when he wins the most. Methinks the ***** have cause and effect reversed. NAdal is playing as good as ever as the data show. In my opinion Djokovic play his best from 14:53 to 14:56 of the Rome final, he was GOAT in that time. LOLLLLL

DjokovicForTheWin
06-19-2011, 03:42 PM
He knows, it's just more fun to be a troll I guess. This place can really be ridiculous.

Sorry, but please don't tell me my opinion. Only the ***** seem to be blind to the fact that Nadal is in his peak now.

zagor
06-19-2011, 03:46 PM
Lastly... it's annoying to see people going on here about 2011 Nadal playing the best tennis of his career. That's foolish at best, and borderline insane at worst.

As I said before, anyone claiming that Nadal is playing the best tennis of his life probably didn't watch the matches or is trolling.

But don't interject silly crap like "Rafa is playing the tennis of his life but is still being outplayed" that's ridiculous. And anyone saying that obviously hasn't seen Rafa play on clay before this year.

Now this is all a touch aggressive,the conclusion about any player's level of play is quite subjective,I get the feeling like you two are trying to impose your opinion by force.To me it seems like Nadal is playing the most breathtaking tennis of his career(reminds me of Fed in 2006),does that mean I don't really understand tennis?

MichaelNadal
06-19-2011, 03:49 PM
Now this is all a touch aggressive,the conclusion about any player's level of play is quite subjective,I get the feeling like you two are trying to impose your opinion by force.To me it seems like Nadal is playing the most breathtaking tennis of his career (reminds me of Fed in 2006),does that mean I don't really understand tennis?

Sigh. I really don't know what else to say. Im completely done though, completely.

viduka0101
06-19-2011, 03:59 PM
LOL, yeah convenient how his best revolves around when he wins the most.


Year W - L Winning persentage
2008: 82–11 88%
2009: 66–14 83%
(by the time RG ended he was 45-5 90%)
2010: 71–10 88%
2011: 45–7 87%

not that big of a difference
by the way, didn't you imply in your previous post that a player is at his peak when the "objective results" show that
aren't those^ objective results then?


Methinks the ***** have cause and effect reversed. NAdal is playing as good as ever as the data show.

actually the data shows something else, see above

In my opinion Djokovic play his best from 14:53 to 14:56 of the Rome final, he was GOAT in that time. LOLLLLL

I pointed out a year, not one month, not one tournament, not one match
if you think I chose a small period then fine: IMO Nadal played his best tennis from 2008 to 2010, that's 3 years,in that period he played better tennis than in 2011(again IMO)

DjokovicForTheWin
06-19-2011, 06:19 PM
Year W - L Winning persentage
2008: 8211 88%
2009: 6614 83%
(by the time RG ended he was 45-5 90%)
2010: 7110 88%
2011: 457 87%

not that big of a difference


You're exactly right, not that big a difference at all. His peak year of 2008 is essentially the same as his 2011, which proves he's still at his peak. Thanks for gathering up the objective data.

DjokovicForTheWin
06-19-2011, 06:21 PM
I pointed out a year, not one month, not one tournament, not one match
if you think I chose a small period then fine: IMO Nadal played his best tennis from 2008 to 2010, that's 3 years,in that period he played better tennis than in 2011(again IMO)

Your opinion is irrelevant. The data are the data. The numbers show a similar winning percentage as 2008 AND he's on course to win 3 slams as in 2010 or 2 slams is in 2008. Nadal is at his peak, QED.

tenniselbow1
06-19-2011, 07:25 PM
Concerning Nadal's current form:

Way to premature if he's on some type of slide or he's not at this best. Novak 2.0 is an all together different beast for starters. That said Roger at the moment is as well. Hands down Roger's form in Paris was better than in 09 when he won it. These things go in cycles. How determined are each to prove something at the moment? Roger is clearly not in his prime as he can't bring what he did to Paris consistently in the slams (have my doubts about him regardless of what people are saying about his chances at Wimbi). His game is too unpredictable at the moment unlike the other two who 'rapid cycle' between their best forms.

I think Rafa's had his moments this year as well. To take Djokovic to 3 sets on a hard court is not an easy task. He played the defending Australian Champion quite close. I think 2011 Rafa in IW and Miami would hands down beat 2008 Rafa on a hard court for example, possibly even 09 Rafa of the AO. Rafa played extremely well in the UO 2010 but Novak was not Novak 2.0. Rafa's clay court losses to Novak in which he clearly was not at this best was a bit mental as well. But he played extremely well in the final against an inform Roger to defend his title. I do think Novak may have his number due to matchup issues as Rafa had for so long with Roger but time will let us know and all of this talk is way to premature.

Omega_7000
06-19-2011, 09:35 PM
Fail.......................

FAIL !

viduka0101
06-20-2011, 03:00 AM
actually zagor is not trolling. He is a genuine balkan trash-****.

btw...the balkan trash is really lucky to face a declining Nadal this year.

you've been reported :neutral:

viduka0101
06-20-2011, 03:02 AM
Your opinion is irrelevant. The data are the data. The numbers show a similar winning percentage as 2008 AND he's on course to win 3 slams as in 2010 or 2 slams is in 2008.

it's not just my opinion, you sad that the data shows Nadal is at his peak in 2011
well the data shows better results in 2008,2009 and in 2010

in your previous post you said it's convenient for me to chose the period when he's winning the most but at the same time you're saying a player's peak is when the data shows it



QED.

http://i39.tinypic.com/16k3pzb.gif
don't make me laugh

zagor
06-20-2011, 03:27 AM
the balkan trash is really lucky to face a declining Nadal this year.

In a sense he is indeed lucky,lucky to face the undisputed best Nadal has to offer,it's a privilege and honour playing against a legend at his best and I'm sure peak Novak gladly embraces such a challenge.

mandy01
06-20-2011, 03:29 AM
In a sense he is indeed lucky,lucky to face the undisputed best Nadal has to offer,it's a privilege and honour playing against a legend at his best and I'm sure peak Novak gladly embraces such a challenge.Indeed.Peak Novak has so far outclassed Peak Nadal on HC and clay.Their 'peak-h2h' says it all :wink:

zagor
06-20-2011, 03:37 AM
Indeed.Peak Novak has so far outclassed Peak Nadal on HC and clay.Their 'peak-h2h' says it all :wink:

Yes we are all eagerly awaiting for the inevitable response from uncle Toni and Rafa,what adjustments will Rafa make? He's one of the most adaptable players in the history of tennis,can he adapt to matured Novak? So many questions.It's a shame these two young men couldn't meet in FO final,it's what all the fans worldwide desired but alas the old Swiss vet trolled us all once again.

Hitman
06-20-2011, 03:42 AM
Yes we are all eagerly awaiting for the inevitable response from uncle Toni and Rafa,what adjustments will Rafa make? He's one of the most adaptable players in the history of tennis,can he adapt to matured Novak? So many questions.It's a shame these two young men couldn't meet in FO final,it's what all the fans worldwide desired but alas the old Swiss vet trolled us all once again.

LMAO!!!!!! :)

DjokovicForTheWin
06-20-2011, 05:21 AM
it's not just my opinion, you sad that the data shows Nadal is at his peak in 2011
well the data shows better results in 2008,2009 and in 2010

in your previous post you said it's convenient for me to chose the period when he's winning the most but at the same time you're saying a player's peak is when the data shows it


Huhhhh? How do the data show the results are better for 2008-10??? The percentage point is one less than 2008 and he's on course to win more slams. Please explain how the data show 08-10 > 11????

That's right, you did pick the period when he was winning the most. What was his record for the period you said was his peak? You picked start of the 2008 clay-court season till the end of the 2009 clay-court season. You conveniently left out the record from start of CC season in 2008. The best I can do According to that stats you provided is 82-11 (full year stats even thought you said from start of CC) and 45-5 = 127 - 16 = 89%. 89% is winning the most for any of the full years you listed, no? :)

But regardless, you miss the point. His record is not much worse now than it was in his peak according to you. Hence he is still in his peak. QED, please laugh some more ;)

tenniselbow1
09-12-2011, 05:57 PM
"Lastly, i'm predicting (bar no injuries) this 4 match consecutive streak will reach 12-3/13-3/13-4 type numbers. Basically were going to see Novak utterly dominate Rafa in his prime. This is how they match up in my opinion."

This was what I said June of this year all you. Nadal fully out of the GOAT equation for good now, thank GOD.