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David Pavlich
04-25-2004, 03:05 PM
After San Marino, Michael Shumacher and his vaunted Ferrari team look unstoppable. Even though Shumacher had a bobble during qualifying and Jenson Button did a great lap taking the pole (the big story of the season so far...BAR's leap to the upper crust of F1) Michael started from P2. He stayed with Button until Button pealed of for his first pit stop. From that point on, it was Michael magic.

Shumacher ripped off 3 blazing laps, pitted and came out in first place 2 seconds ahead of Button. From that point on, it was Michael putting distance between him and the rest of the field.

Shumacher's ability to turn up his performance on command reminds me of when Sampras was in his prime. He'd be down 0-40 and rip off 3 aces and go on to win the game.

Mclaren has been the big bust with Raikonen getting his first point today and thre DNFs prior, the new Williams is fast, but not in the same class as the Ferrari, at least now. Renault is still looking good, but still not quite enough straight line speed.

BAR looks to be the best of the rest for the moment (I wonder what Jacques is thinking?). They did have an engine hand grenade with 4 laps to go (Sato), so there is a little concern at BAR. However, it's 2 podiums in a row for Button and he's tied with Barichello for 2nd in the points standing.

Michael will try to tie Mansel at the next race for the most races won to begin a season...5.

Michael is the only driver to lead more than 4000 laps, he's led all but 17 laps this season, he's been on the podium 126 out of 198 races he's entered, and has averaged 5.44 points per start.

The season isn't over and a lot can happen, but unless Shumacher is injured, it looks as though it will be his 7th World tiltle and 6th Constructor's title in a row for Ferrari. The reliabilty of the Ferrari has been incredible.

One other big story to come out has been the lack of attrition considering the one-engine-for-the-weekend rule is now in force. Through 4 races, this has been the lowest attrition rate in F1 history. Amazing when you consider that these engines are turning between 17,000 and 19,000 rpm.

Update: I made an error in the standings. Button is not tied with Rubens.

David

david aames
04-25-2004, 07:39 PM
Where do you get to watch F1?

perfmode
04-25-2004, 08:07 PM
How would he get injured?

Phil
04-25-2004, 08:17 PM
How would he get injured?


Crashing and burning.

David Pavlich
04-26-2004, 09:09 AM
Where do you get to watch F1?

Speed Channel. However, it's blacked out in certain areas.

David

ProStaffTour90
04-26-2004, 04:40 PM
That was Buttons third podium in a row, Bahrain 3rd, Seoang 3rd, Imola 2nd.

I really hoped he'd go to Williams next year, but there seems to be no need the Honda looks like being a better car!

AAAA
04-26-2004, 05:13 PM
After last season I thought Williams and McLaren would mount a serious challenge but NO! Bar Honda increasingly look like the team to take the challenge to Ferrari.

Moantoya needs to stop complaining and start racing. Michael always gives 100% even when he didn't have the best car; he always attends the race briefings to give input to help the engineers improve the car. All Moantoya does is publicly criticize the car and the team, a great way to get the rest of the team giving 110% for you.

David Pavlich
04-27-2004, 02:06 PM
That was Buttons third podium in a row, Bahrain 3rd, Seoang 3rd, Imola 2nd.

I really hoped he'd go to Williams next year, but there seems to be no need the Honda looks like being a better car!

My mistake! You've got to wonder if Jacques has viewed any of the last 3 races and said "hmmmmmmm"?

It was only a matter of time before Honda figured out the engine and got BAR into shape. I'm sure there's a little concern about Sato's kablooey, though.

David

David Pavlich
04-27-2004, 02:08 PM
After last season I thought Williams and McLaren would mount a serious challenge but NO! Bar Honda increasingly look like the team to take the challenge to Ferrari.

Moantoya needs to stop complaining and start racing. Michael always gives 100% even when he didn't have the best car; he always attends the race briefings to give input to help the engineers improve the car. All Moantoya does is publicly criticize the car and the team, a great way to get the rest of the team giving 110% for you.

With JPM leaving Williams, he doesn't give a hoot if he criticizes the team. However, you've got to wonder if Ron Dennis is thinking that maybe his addition to Mclaren will be as wonderful as he thought it would be.

I wonder if David Coulthard will retire? I like him. I hope he sticks around and gets with a good team.

David

ProStaffTour90
04-27-2004, 04:01 PM
Yeh, i like good old square head, used to be my fav driver before Button came on the scene!

I expected the Renaults to also mount a challenge this year, after the backend of last season, Alonso was on fire, but they also seem to have gone backwards like McLaren and Williams!

Also reading the paper today, Ross Braun was quoted after the race, when asked about who can replace Schumy when he retires "Obviously we will have to look at the drivers at the time when Michael retires but Button will be very high on the list"

I'm glad Button looks to have finally established himself (i suppose all he needed was a decent car! The british commentators were excited during his first season, saying how great he would be "The next Mansell" etc. but it looked like he would just be an "alright" driver after not making that much process, but jees, now he's a fixture on that podium!

Also interesting that Michael is full of praise for him, i can't remember him actually saying stuff like that about any other drivers!

Redferrari350
04-27-2004, 10:16 PM
Yipee!! Michael wins again!

topspin
04-28-2004, 12:29 AM
Well it's turning out to be yet another really boring season. Ferrari has a really good car again this year ($$$ helps) and everyone else is falling behind rapidly.

As for Villeneuve, I have no idea what he thinks about BAR suddenly having got it right. For sure it must be frustrating to have helped that team since it started and then not be able to reap the rewards because of an arrogant team manager who basically needed to save some money.

Honda is well known for taking their time and working slowly but very progressively. Well this year they finally got it right. Too bad all the engines they had for Villeneuve sucked by being way under-powered and unreliable.

What really makes me laugh is when people try to say that Villeneuve wasn't a good driver because he never got the success that the drivers are having now. Well that's ignorance talking because button didn't have results last year either. The car got improved a lot during the off season.

AAAA
04-28-2004, 04:17 AM
Villeneuve was bad for BAR. When he still had a seat at BAR he was the 2nd highest paid driver after Michael but did little for the team. It's widely known Villeneuve joined BAR for the $$$. At Williams he drove the best car but he struggled to win the Championship against Michael.

When it was known Villeneuve was leaving BAR no other team wanted him.

topspin
04-28-2004, 04:50 PM
Actually you're way wrong. Villeneuve helped BAR a great deal. The car would not be anywhere close to where it is now if it wasn't for him. He was paid a lot because everyone who knows anything about F1 knows that he is as good if not better than Michael and he commanded a certain salary that British American Tobaco was more than willing to pay him. So they did, and big deal, what would you have done? The team did look promisingn with Honda and Reynard being involved. But it was those guys that dropped the ball and basically discouraged Villeneuve so he became disinterested and lost the passion to drive the way he had with Williams.

Now at Williams, sure it was the best car, just like Michael has the best car today. He struggled??? LOL He would have won his 1st race ever in F1 in Australia if not for a mechanical problem. Damon Hill had been there for years and yet Villeneuve challenged him for the title up until the very last race in Japan.

In 1997, the 2nd year, the fall of Williams was in sight as the car simply did not perform as reliably and Villeneuve was in a fight for the title with Michael who was in his 2nd year at Ferrari and making rapid progress. Villeneuve won the title beautifully and Michael's cheating attempt did not work for once.

Villeneuve did not leave BAR, they did not renew his contract because they have no loyalty towards someone who helped them get to where they are today and wanted to save some $$$. Other teams did want Villeneuve like Renault. But Flavio Briatore knows that his team is not ready for a driver like Villeneuve and does not want him to waste his time like he did with BAR. So he's waiting to see what happens at the end of this year since there should be good seats available at Williams and McLaren.

So get your facts straight before you post.

AAAA
05-05-2004, 03:31 PM
In 1997, the Williams car was the best on the grid by far. They had 11 pole positions while Ferrari only had 3. 11 vs. 3 is quite a performance advantage. Despite the superiority of JV's car the championship went down to the wire. This was due to JV's insistence of using his 'own' setup for the races and ignoring the ideal setup as determined by team engineers. He in short struggled because he chose his 'own' race setup.

Due to his shall we say 'individual character' Williams 'let him go' after he won the championship.

As world champion, JV and his manager used his strong bargaining position to get a huge wage and have BAR build a team around him.

Unfortunately after years of over-spending and few results to show for it BAR needed to control the excessive spending. Chopping JV was one clear way to cut costs without reducing the development budget for the car. Loyality had nothing to do with it. It was all about making the car the most competitive it could be within the new financial framework.

And No Renault did not want JV. At the end of the season the F1 supremo himself Bernie Eccelstone had talks with ever team to try and get a seat for Jacques but nobody wanted him.

David Pavlich
05-09-2004, 08:24 PM
Uh....5 for 5...

David

topspin
05-10-2004, 02:05 PM
You got some things right here, but you still got some things wrong. First of all, JV was not "let go" after he won the title in 97. He raced with Williams for another year. Surely you must remember that. 98 was a bad year for Williams and continued to show the decline of the car since 97. Yes this touches on your 1st paragraph where you claim Williams had the better car because of pole positions. Well poll positions are not the sole indicator of the quality of a car. The car must also be reliable and the Williams was showing signs of quality going down in 97 and was later confirmed with the awful 98 year. Ferrari was not quite as fast for pole positions but they had a solid package that was quite reliable and getting faster, so they had quite a competitive car and that's why the title came down to the last race.

I do like that you know about JV's own setup. From what I remember, it was a positive thing that the team later adopted even for Damon Hill. JV learned a lot of stuff in Cart and brought a lot of knowledge to F1. You think that setup caused him to struggle? Well I'm not so sure, he likes the car setup a certain way and I'm not going to argue with that. There are so many other factors that contributed to his "struggling" in 98 anyway.

BAR wanted JV as a driver to please Honda. The wage paid was in lign with his talent and success at that point in his whole racing career. Clearly it was not a good move for JV or for BAR. They are much better off with cheaper younger drivers until they can get a decent car on the road. Now after years of development and tuning by JV, they have a good car but they turned their backs on JV. Very low class indeed. If they wanted to keep him, they would have had no problems finding the money to pay his salary. The reason they didn't sign him is because Richards is a control freak and clearly he and JV did not "get along".

Renault wanted JV only if they had a competitive car, and they didn't. Bernie wanted JV to stay of course, and clearly there were no openings in the top teams. So it's not that no1 wanted him, it's that there was no room.

But hey, the scoop is that Williams does want him back and that he will start to test for them soon. So Schumy might be retiring this year because he will be afraid of having a real competitor on his hands next year.

BTW, what a snoozer of a race in Spain, **yawns**. F1 is going down the tubes.

David Pavlich
05-11-2004, 01:19 PM
Actually, there was a lot of good racing behind Michael in Spain.

This race also showed that as much as Montoya is trying to create something between him and Shumacher, JPM and his ride are not up to the challenge.

Maclaren is going backwards, Renault is still down on power (good chassis, but poor straight line speed), and BAR is fast, but still has to prove itself over a season.

Michael's gift is the way he can up the ante. Trulli's first pit stop was a full second quicker that Shumacher's, but because Michael has the ability to light it up when he needs to, he got out of the pits ahead of Trulli and proceded to walk away from him.

If Michael passes Senna for the P1 record this year, I suspect he'll retire.

David

Russell Finch
05-13-2004, 06:26 AM
Max Mosley's rule changes can't come soon enough. I think he's almost entirely on the right track but he must ban refuelling as well as tyre changes. As long as there are pit stop strategies involved, many drivers won't bother even trying to overtake on the track (see MS in last 2 races).

David Pavlich
05-13-2004, 09:26 AM
Max Mosley's rule changes can't come soon enough. I think he's almost entirely on the right track but he must ban refuelling as well as tyre changes. As long as there are pit stop strategies involved, many drivers won't bother even trying to overtake on the track (see MS in last 2 races).

That's a good idea for tracks where there is actually places that passing can take place, but many of the tracks are virtually impossible to find a place to overtake without becoming a danger to the other drivers. Therefore, the P1 qualifier will have a HUGE advantage...which means if it were this season, the Michael bashers would be complaining that there needs to be refueling and tire changes to give the others a chance.


Mosley has a big uphill challenge, for sure.

David

ProStaffTour90
05-13-2004, 04:03 PM
What! banning refuelling and tyre changes! :shock:

Do you actually want to see a car finish the race!

If this had to be done, the cars would be soo heavy and the tyres so thick to be durable enough to last the whole race, i could keep up in my 1.3 litre Peugeot 205!

Russell Finch
05-14-2004, 01:18 AM
PST90 - It's only in the last 15 years or so that scheduled pitstops have featured at all. Refuelling has only been legal for a few years.
F1 was much more fun when the cars didn't pit as the drivers had to nurse the cars to the end a bit. Someone who went out really quickly at the start of a race would often murder their tyres or wear their brakes out (due to the heavy fuel load) and so from 30 seconds ahead of the field midway through the race their pace would slow and the cars behind would catch up and overtake - much more exciting than the present situation where pretty much every driver's pace is constant throughout the races. Now once somebody is in the lead it's usually because their car is fundamentally faster and there's not much chance of anything changing. As for unreliability, that makes it more exciting too. It was actually worth watching the whole race if you knew there was a fair chance the leader would conk out with 5 laps to go. As for the "no overtaking" argument, I'm sure it is harder than in the past but Montoya has managed several good moves in the last few years and I think many drivers (Ralf?) either don't know how to do it or have given up trying. Perhaps many drivers are afraid of the extreme blocking moves which the likes of MS perpetrate. Swerving across on straights to block overtaking would have been unthinkable in the past as a collision would have led to a massively dangerous accident - newer, safer cars have taken away that fear from the drivers.

Hopefully Mosley can get the teams to radically reduce aero downforce to enable the cars to follow each other more closely and help overtaking. Don't forget that up until the late eighties there was a fair amunt of overtaking done even at Monaco (mainly into Mirabeau and Ste Devote) with cars wider than they are today so it's not impossible even at Monaco.
At the risk of sounding like an old nostalgic (I've been watching F1 since the BBC started showing it in 1978 I think), it really was much better then and pitstops are the single biggest reason for it's demise.

Russell Finch
05-14-2004, 01:39 AM
And of course there's the brakes. Jackie Stewart drove a modern F1 car about 5 years ago and said the brakes were the biggest single difference since his day (not the grip!!). Mosley is planning to introduce standard brakes which hopefully won't be nearly as good as they are now. Longer braking distances will give the cars more chance to outbrake each other into corners.

Apparently Bernie Ecclestone wants to change the qualifying format again to a system of two half hour sessions with the combined best time form the 2 sessions being on pole. What we need is the grid jumbled up more, not less.

David Pavlich
05-25-2004, 02:59 PM
5 for 6. JPM, a lapped car and not fighting for position, ran into Shumacher and ended his day. Michael may not have had enough for Trulli, but getting punted by a lapped car is pretty shabby.

David

ProStaffTour90
05-25-2004, 03:20 PM
Well he ran the risk, and the safety car has to take some of the blame, Ferrari didn't actually hint at any wrong doing by JP and so the matter is over i think, he was unlucky, and your right, don't think he could have caught Trulli OR Button!

katarddx
05-26-2004, 09:21 AM
I really hoped he'd go to Williams next year, but there seems to be no need the Honda looks like being a better car![/quote]


No, no, no... Williams will suck next year... R. S i leaving for sure, Montoya already left....Maybe, Raikonen will come...

Russell Finch
05-27-2004, 09:37 AM
I think we'll see Jacques Villeneuve back in a Williams in 05. There's a story in a UK paper today that Hakkinen wants to come back and drive a Williams in 05. Can't see it myself though.

David Pavlich
05-27-2004, 08:27 PM
I've got the VCR set for practice tomorrow. Wouldn't it be great if F1 ran on the old Nurburgring? We can only dream.

David

David Pavlich
05-30-2004, 11:26 AM
6 for 7! The best first stint I've ever seen.

JPM takes out another driver...this time it's his teammate. Honda has another hand grenade, but BAR still looks like the best of the rest.

David

Pro_Tour_630
05-31-2004, 07:20 PM
David , do you think Michael can race and win with his tires balance off by 10grams

PistolPete
05-31-2004, 08:02 PM
Jeff Gordon in F1 in the future?

Redferrari350
06-01-2004, 04:42 AM
Jeff Gordon in F1 in the future?
No, I like to see a real "good ol boy" drive an F1 machine like Sterlin Marlin. That'd real funny.

PistolPete
06-01-2004, 03:48 PM
Haha Sterling in a F1 car, that would be rediculous. I saw Gordon drive a F1 car last year on SPEED when him adn Juan Montoya switched cars. Juan Montoya drove Gordon's 24 car and Gordon drove the F1 and didn't do that bad.

Russell Finch
06-03-2004, 06:12 AM
Jeff Gordon went within a second of Montoya and impressed everyone who saw him. I saw an intervie with him recently and said he wouldn't switch at 32 but hinted that if the chance had come along earlier.....

David Pavlich
06-03-2004, 08:13 PM
David , do you think Michael can race and win with his tires balance off by 10grams

Yep! I've seen him overcook a corner and flatspot at tire severely and still smoke the field even after removing a bunch of rubber from one tire.

David

David Pavlich
06-13-2004, 07:35 PM
7 for 8! If there's a better team out there for putting together a race strategy, I'd like to see it. 3 stop strategy has been the conventional wisdom with very short first stints the norm. Ferrari found a reason to change to a 2 stopper and came 1-2 (Williams and Toyota were DQ'ed for a brake duct violation, which knocked Ralf Schumacher from 2nd).

I must also toss in a pile of kudos for that great American iron, Corvette. The Compuware team finished 1-2 in the GTS class at the 24 Hours of LeMans today. Gotta' love the pushrod V8s!

David

David Pavlich
06-20-2004, 05:47 PM
8 for 9! It's great watching history in the making!

David

Russell Finch
06-23-2004, 03:48 AM
I'm glad you like it David because I'm really bored by it. Sato could have won at Indy but for BAR not pitting him under the safety car. The other teams just keep screwing up when they get the chance to beat MS.

David Pavlich
06-23-2004, 08:32 AM
I'm glad you like it David because I'm really bored by it. Sato could have won at Indy but for BAR not pitting him under the safety car. The other teams just keep screwing up when they get the chance to beat MS.

Sato MAY have had a chance, but if you check the lap times when Michael was on it, noone could match him, not even Rubens who had P1.

David

Russell Finch
06-29-2004, 02:03 AM
MS does have a track record of making mistakes when he's pressurised and Sato is young, wild and aggressive enough to make MS nervous if he gets close enough. Hopefully he or Button will really mix it with the Ferraris in next couple of races.

David Pavlich
06-29-2004, 08:19 PM
MS does have a track record of making mistakes when he's pressurised and Sato is young, wild and aggressive enough to make MS nervous if he gets close enough. Hopefully he or Button will really mix it with the Ferraris in next couple of races.

If what you say is true, it's damn few mistakes. He's 6 times WDC and has won 77 races, led more laps than anyone and has more podiums than anyone. And the only race he lost this season is because a lapped driver punted him.

He's the picture of calm if you ask me.

David

Russell Finch
06-30-2004, 01:18 AM
There's no way he would have won Monaco this year - Montoya or no Montoya. He's been under virtually no pressure in most races this year. At Imola when Button had put in a good qualifying lap MS overcooked it onto the grass and he's done it various times over the years in races. Martin Brundle often says during his commentaries that MS is vulnerable under pressure.

David Pavlich
06-30-2004, 08:03 PM
So...how many times has Martin Brundle been on the podium? Or how many driver's championships has he? Has he led more than 400 laps let alone 4000? And where is Brundle now?

It reminds me of Greg Rusedski saying that Pete Sampras had lost a step. Let's see, Rusedski finished 1st how many times? How many slams? How many titles?

The best part is, Sampras smoked him the next time they played. Pete said he didn't need that extra step when he played Rusedski. That was just about the perfect gotcha!

Russell Finch
07-01-2004, 06:31 AM
Brundle is now commentating on British TV and winning awards for his work. He points out MS' occasional mistakes under pressure as being the only chink in his armour - he's not putting the boot in and claiming he was a better driver as you seem to imply. As a very experienced former F1 driver he's far better placed to comment upon drivers' strengths and weaknesses than you or I.

MS does make a few mistakes and I expect Sampras had lost a step but they were both still good enough to win.

Just because somebody has won lots of titles/races doesn't mean they are perfect and we shouldn't have to pretend they are.

Russell Finch
07-01-2004, 06:41 AM
Apparently Michelin are suggesting that F1 cars should only be allowed one set of tyres for both qualifying and race. They argue that as well as the benefit of cost reductions for the teams, the tyres will have to be made of far harder compounds than at present in order to last that long and this will mean virtually no "marbles" off line which will help overtaking. It will also mean less grip giving reduced cornering speeds.

Sounds promising.

David Pavlich
07-01-2004, 06:57 PM
Brundle is now commentating on British TV and winning awards for his work. He points out MS' occasional mistakes under pressure as being the only chink in his armour - he's not putting the boot in and claiming he was a better driver as you seem to imply. As a very experienced former F1 driver he's far better placed to comment upon drivers' strengths and weaknesses than you or I.

MS does make a few mistakes and I expect Sampras had lost a step but they were both still good enough to win.

Just because somebody has won lots of titles/races doesn't mean they are perfect and we shouldn't have to pretend they are.

I never claimed that Michael is perfect. What I find funny is how many people use "ifs and buts" to try to make him out to be a lesser driver than he is. Results are what matters. NOONE has done better. It's that simple. He came to Ferrari when it was a second tier team. Need I say more?

David

David Pavlich
07-01-2004, 07:02 PM
Apparently Michelin are suggesting that F1 cars should only be allowed one set of tyres for both qualifying and race. They argue that as well as the benefit of cost reductions for the teams, the tyres will have to be made of far harder compounds than at present in order to last that long and this will mean virtually no "marbles" off line which will help overtaking. It will also mean less grip giving reduced cornering speeds.

Sounds promising.

Don't you find it strange that a tire company would make such a suggestion? It seems to me that Michelin, which is far and away the most used tire in F1, would want to make as many tires as it can. Or maybe Michelin doesn't think that it can contend with the Bridgestone/Ferrari combination so, just as it is done in NASCAR, everyone has to use the same tire.

What next...everyone has to use the same chassis? The same engine? Bad idea.

David

Russell Finch
07-02-2004, 01:02 AM
I suspect that Michelin, like Bridgestone are in F1 mainly for prestige, PR and marketing purposes, none of which would be diminished by the changes they have suggested. If they were merely cranking out a few dozen very hard tyres for each race their manufacturing and R+D costs would be greatly reduced.

I instinctively agree with your last comment but I think there's a strong groundswell of opinion in and around F1 that the electronics and aerodynamics have taken over and that driver skill needs to be given more prominence. In some ways, equalising the cars shows us who the best driver is. If you look to the past however, in 1979 we had most of the field powered by the Cosworth V8, the Ferrari had the 12 cylinder engine and there was the 1.5 litre Renault V6 turbo. Each engine suited different tracks best so we had a variety of winners. Now they're all V10 and have very similar designs so the cars tend to perform relatively similarly on all the tracks. Perhaps the modern tracks being more samey contributes to this too. It's a tough one for the people running the sport to sort out but I think anything which encourages overtaking like Michelin's idea is to be encouraged. The only down side I can see is that if aerodynamic grip is radically reduced then reducing mechanical grip with the use of hard tyres may make it harder for the cars to follow each other closely around corners and overtake into the next one.

Russell Finch
07-02-2004, 06:00 AM
I don't deny that MS has an excellent record and is comfortably the best of his era but he has benefitted from astonishing reliability. Many world champions of previous years suffered mechanical breakdowns in 6 or 7 races per year so didn't have the chance to amass as many wins.

I think it was in the sixties that any driver who drove 5 years of F1 had a 50% chance of being killed. Pretty hard to create records from that great cockpit in the sky.

David Pavlich
07-06-2004, 12:34 PM
What an amazing performance! After the first round of pit stops, the commentators thought that maybe Ferrari miscalculated the pit stop strategy.

As it turns out, Michael was able to turn in a pile of blistering laps gaining a second or more a lap over Fernando and make FOUR STOPS and still win comfortably.

It was only a few weeks ago that when the 3 stop strategy was the conventional wisdom, Ferrari did a 2 stopper and again outdid the other teams. Truly amazing.

David

Russell Finch
07-07-2004, 01:23 AM
David - I was wondering when you'd be dropping in.

I didn't see the race (I was sat on centre court) - did MS actually overtake Alonso or was it another case of perfectly executing the strategy?

David Pavlich
07-07-2004, 08:03 PM
David - I was wondering when you'd be dropping in.

I didn't see the race (I was sat on centre court) - did MS actually overtake Alonso or was it another case of perfectly executing the strategy?

It was typical Ferrari team genious (one-upped the other teams again) and Michael's ablility to turn up the wick and crank off several blistering laps at a moment's notice.

Michael did his usual stocking, staying behind Alonso for a while, then just before the first stop, MS got right up under FA's wing just to let him know who was there.

As I said before, Hobbs and Varsha thought that maybe Flavio out did Braun in the strategy department. As it turns out, the boys were wrong. One of the best drives I've seen Michael make. 4 stops and still extended his last stint lead by 12 seconds.

The best pass was on the final lap between Rubens and Trulli. Rubens got him on the last turn. Trulli went a little wide, and when I say a little, I mean a little, and Rubens stuck his nose in deep enough to give him the corner and another podium...#51 for Rubens.

David

David Pavlich
07-11-2004, 02:43 PM
10 for 11. Again, the brilliance of a good plan and Michael's ability to lap at extraordinary speeds when he needs to.

This race had a lilttle drama, however. Trulli had a horrendous crash that brought out the safety car, which worked well for Kimi's pit strategy. It allowed him to make his 3rd stop and get back on track behind Michael, who had already stopped for his second of 2 stops. However, after a couple of laps with Kimi nipping at Michael's gearbox, the Shumacher piloted Ferrari opened up a gap and was never fronted.

And Michael didn't crack under the pressure...didn't crash, didn't do anything silly. He just did his usual blistering laps and left the field behind....again.

David

Russell Finch
07-14-2004, 01:15 AM
I admire MS' skill in banging in quick batches of laps when required but as a spectacle F1 is making itself look stupid now. He's won 10 races and his only overtaking move all season was driving round Barrichello just after the safety car went off at Indy. Every other time he's gained places has been by pit strategy. Pit stops are the enemy of actual racing and must be banned now!!! MS must be forced to show his undoubted skill by actually overtaking cars - it's not impossible as JPM frequently proves so let's force MS to at least attempt it.

topspin
07-14-2004, 08:48 PM
MS is just way overrated. He's a decent driver driving the best car in the history of f1. An unlimited budget will do that. Pitstops are not the problem, money is where you need to focus if you want a better show out there.

David Pavlich
07-15-2004, 03:58 PM
MS is just way overrated. He's a decent driver driving the best car in the history of f1. An unlimited budget will do that. Pitstops are not the problem, money is where you need to focus if you want a better show out there.

Ummmm...Ferrari was a second tier team to the Williams, Benneton and McLaren until Michael signed up. Ferrari was in disaray until MS planted his flag along with his people.

While it's difficult to compare past drivers because of the changes, to say that someone that has won the driver's title 6 times, has led more laps and has more victories than any driver as overrated is like calling Sampras run of the mill.

David

topspin
07-16-2004, 09:04 PM
Ferrari has an UNLIMITED budget. Anything they want, they won't be told NO. MS allowed them to get even more money when he signed with them since at least now they had a decent driver. I say he IS overrated because he is driving a car that is simply the best car ever made in the history of F1. To go 45 or 46 consecutive races without a mechanical breakdown is downright insane. He's a good driver, makes few errors, one of the best, yes, but nonetheless still highly overrated because it's easy to get blinded with the results and not see the true motive behind them.

And let's not forget the fact that MS has had 2 puppets in Irvine and Barrichello who basically are there to help him develop the car to suit his needs. Now there is a luxury I'm sure every other F1 driver would absolutely love.

David Pavlich
07-17-2004, 07:30 PM
Ummmm....Rubens has 51 podium finishes....hardly a puppet. Again, if Michael signed with Williams or McLaren instead of Ferrari, Ferrari would still be playing catch up.

I see it as Williams, McLaren, et al haven't been able to figure it out. The great engine builders at BMW and Mercedes (Ilmore) stilll can't get it right. Honda had to reduce the power on the BAR so that it wouldn't hand grenade on Sato.

Shumacher made Ferrari what it is today. It's because he has the ability to tell his engineers what the car needs to make it right. His people established the discipline to allow the reliability to be what it is. Why can't the other teams do it? McLaren just spent a pile of dinars to build a new facility.

6 titles and probably 7, well over 4000 laps led, more victories...AND HE WON HIS FIRST DRIVING TITLE WITH AN ENGINE THAT WAS DOWN 40 HP TO THE MCLAREN AND WILLIAMS. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

David

topspin
07-18-2004, 01:58 AM
Rubens has 51 "podium finishes", not wins, because he's not allowed to win. His main objective with the team is to help develop the car for Michael and to help him win races. That's a puppet if you ask me.

Ok look, it's hard to say what would happen if MS was with another team. I doubt Ferrari would be winning as much as they are now because MS did help bring sponsors and good engineers to the team. But with the unlimited budget of Ferrari, I'm confident they would be very competitive.

You see things the way this buddy of mine sees things if you see it as the other teams having missed this years car. I think Williams has a fine car but McLaren did miss because they couldn't finish races. But the bottom line is there simply has never been as good a car out there as what Ferrari has now.

If you want to give all the credit for that to Michael, then that's your choice. I'm pretty sure all those engineers working late nights had something to do with it too. Oh and don't forget the strategy that wins him his races, who decides that? Yup, his engineer. He just has to drive the car and keep it on the road and stick to the strategy and the race is his.

The other teams can't match what Ferrari offers. And I would also say that McLaren moving into a new facilty caused them problems since I'm sure it was a nightmare to try and work and move facilities at the same time. I think the new car now is going to work a lot better for them, even though it's too little too late now.

As for the point you are trying to make with your last statement, come now, surely you don't think horsepower is all there is to a car. We both know that the Benetton of those days had the best chassis on the track. They pioneered that pointy nose they used to use, which later got copied by other teams. Oh and let's not forget the fact that Michael purposely crashed his car into Damon Hill after he crashed his car in the wall in the final race in Australia, thus clinching his 1st title by cheating. Hmmmmmmmmmm

David Pavlich
07-18-2004, 06:37 PM
If you read my posts, you will see that I have stated that Michael assembled a great TEAM. He brought people that aided in his success at Benneton to Ferrari, among others. The strategy is to stalk the leader if he's behind then put in several blistering laps to stretch his lead and then come out of the pits ahead. So far, Michael is the only driver capable of doing that this year.

Michael was able to do this at Ferrari and he would have done it at Williams or McLaren...or he wouldn't drive for them.

And the horsepower thing...I cite the Renault team. Consensus is that the Renault chassis is the hot setup this year. Hmmmmmm....what's wrong with this picture? Must be down on horsepower, or maybe the drivers aren't up to the task to make that great chassis overcome the horsepower deficit.

Did Michael cheat? That's your opinion, but apparently not that of the FIA, because he was never stripped of the title.

David

topspin
07-19-2004, 01:08 AM
David I have read your posts. Honestly though when you say he helped assemble the team it sounds like you giving him all the credit and not any to the actual team he helped assemble. But anyhow, yeah about Michael being able to put in blistering laps, of course he can, he's got the car, that's what I've been saying here. And Rubens does it too so MS is not the only one. The only thing with Rubens is he has to be careful not to put in too much of a blistering lap and pass schumy.

About Renault, you aren't telling me that you are gonna compare the cars of today with the rules of today with those of 1994???

Did Michael cheat? YOU BETTER BELIEVE HE DID. Oh the FIA wasn't never had to guts to do anything after the fact. And I'm not sure on this but I believe Michael admitted to it like he admitted to his attempt to take out Villeneuve at Jerez in 1997. Also, he took out Frentzen to clinch a title in whatever series he was racing in before going to f1. See a pattern? I sure do. Now go back and look at the video of the Hill incident. Look at it objectively and then try to tell me he didn't cheat. Hey he just got away with it, doesn't mean it's right, just like cheating Olympic athletes.

Russell Finch
07-19-2004, 01:34 AM
MS deliberately took out Damon Hill in 94 and he tried it again with Villeneuve in 97. Have no doubt about either. Damon's mistake was to give MS the opportunity to ram him off rather than wait for MS to retire his broken car. Didn't he take Hakkinen off once in a pre-F1 end of season decider too? Ramming cars off the track to clinch the title originated with Mr Senna and Mr Prost who took turns to foul the sport about 15 years ago at Suzuka. Senna's torpedo job into the first corner was utterly blatant and should have been rewarded by a lengthy race ban but as usual the authorities were unable or unwilling to act. MS probably thought that if Senna could get away with it, so could he.

MS is currently the best driver in the best car which is also almost 100% reliable. Until 2000 he was the best driver in the second or third best car which is why most of those seasons were competitive with him vs Williams or Mclaren.

I wish he would take a leaf out of Valentino Rossi's book and join a midfield team to give himself a new challenge. Somehow I don't think it's in his nature. I can't believe he gets any pleasure out of winning all these races with a quicker car and pit strategies. No doubt he'll rather patronisingly let Reubens win a race or two before the end of the season as a way of thanking him for being his stooge all year.

topspin
07-19-2004, 08:42 PM
Russell I agree that Damon Hill should have been more patient and just let MS get his car off the track back in 94; the title would have been his for sure had he done that.

Now about MS being the "best" driver, this is where I cringe, because it's become very difficult to gauge driver capability seeing as the car does 80% of the work in recent years. Then there are driver styles. MS has made his share of mistakes but I remember one year in particular where he was lucky enough to make his mistakes in areas of the track where he didn't crash into a wall.

Russell Finch
07-20-2004, 01:17 AM
Topspin - I made the same point a few posts back - he has made mistakes over the years but he always seems to get away with them by not hitting anything solid when he goes off.

I just want to see him racing - overtaking cars on the track rather than taking the safe and ruthlessly efficient route of doing it via pit strategy. The current rules allow it which is why they must be changed. Let MS show how good he is - turning in quick laps to execute a pit strategy should be a secondary part of a driver's skillset compared to his overtaking ability. He can prove all the doubters wrong next year if Max Mosley has the common sense to ban refuelling as well as tyre changes.

topspin
07-20-2004, 09:47 PM
I agree. Doing fast laps is what qualifying is all about. (And they did manage to mess that up too in recent years but I think they are going to go back to doing 4 running laps instead of just 1 and with new rules so they can't all wait for the end of the session to go out and lap.) Racing should be more than just putting in fast laps; it should be about racing against the other drivers and overtaking. At least I think that's what fans want to see. So yeah let's hope F1 makes whatever changes needed to bring back the racing element into F1.

Phil
07-20-2004, 10:55 PM
But what I want to know, Topspin, is: who gives a flying %2*#????

topspin
07-20-2004, 11:29 PM
Just a few million racing fans Philippe, that's who...

David Pavlich
07-21-2004, 08:10 PM
Well now...everyone has the same rules. All of the teams can exploit the rules. However, there is but one team that can exploit the rules to the fullest and it's this team that's winning.

I am quite sure that Michael can pass with the best of them, but why should he? It's what's in the "W" column that matters, not how many passes were made during the race.

If Mosley gets his wish and Michael continues to win, I'm sure that we'll hear about the fact that the Bridgestone tire is superior. And what would be the excuse if F1 goes to a single tire supplier? I know...huge budget. Well, if budget is the case then I would assume that we will see Toyota claiming the Constructor's title soon.

This reminds me of the people I read about that are complaining about the TV game show Jeopardy and the guy that's won 35 straight matches and over a million in cash. People want to see the rules changed to stop it. My suggestion is these people: memorize the Encylopedia Britanica, audition and start their own winning streaks.

David

As David Coulthard said, why should the rules be changed to slow down the Ferrari? The other teams should be stepping up their programs. Seems David has it right.

topspin
07-22-2004, 12:28 AM
I think David Coulthard has made enough dumb comments (and dumb moves on the track) over his career to lose credibility. Hey if all you care about is who wins the race, then you're having a lot of fun I guess. But for most "racing" fans, they actually want to see some racing done on the track instead of in the pits or with strategy. They want to see dog fights out there, fair ones of course.

I have no problem with the guy winning all that money on Jeopardy. I really don't see how it relates to MS since he is one guy who happens to know a lot of stuff. MS is one driver who happens to be sorrounded with the best team ever in F1 and so one could make a valid point that he's not doing it all by himself.

Russell Finch
07-22-2004, 01:11 AM
I too have no problem with the best driver winning races in the best car - but doing it via pit strategy is dull beyond belief.

I don't think Max Mosley is planning on banning refuelling next year and that's a huge mistake. I don't blame Ferrari for exploiting the rules to the maximum - I do blame the rules for allowing Ferrari to win in such a boring fashion.

The tennis equivalent of MS in 2004 would be the world's best pusher - we want to see shotmakers who excite us, not extreme competence.

David Pavlich
07-24-2004, 02:07 PM
Russel, your comparison of Shumacher to the best pusher is beyond absurd. Michael is serving at 160 mph and hitting 125 mph forehands at his opponents. Can't hit (or pass) what ya' can't see.

And there's a lot of good racing going on...it's for the 2 through 8 points paying position. If you want to watch 'em duel it out, watch the race for 2nd.

Yea, Coulthard's statement is dumb. Well, I suppose it is for the teams that can't compete with Ferrari. Slow down the red car so that it will be more fair. Heck, let's do NASCAR! When Ford starts winning, Chevy whines until the officials take a little away from Ford's aero package so it's more fair. Maybe all of the teams should be required to use Reynard chassis or Cosworth engines. Indeed.

David

David Pavlich
07-25-2004, 08:15 PM
Like I said, there was some excellent racing at Hockenheim...for 2 through 8.

Button had a very good day. Rubens wasn't on his game. Kimi had to have stains in his pants. Montoya was lackluster. Weber ran well.

David

Russell Finch
07-27-2004, 01:45 AM
Absurd ??

At the moment MS is doing everything very well and allowing the others to screw up. As an example in Germany Raikkonen's wing fell off and Button had to start 13th because of the engine failure. He would have been pushed far harder but for the other teams' mistakes. I say he's a pusher because he's not hitting any winners (ie overtaking) because he's not going for them. Why take the risk of an overtaking move when you can go by with pit strategy. I'm not saying he's not capable of doing all sorts of amazing things but it's the dull safe approach he is taking to winning when he isn't on pole which to me makes him a pusher.

I want to see the F1 equivalent of some shotmaking from him, not merely the flawless execution of a strategy and the absence of mechanical failure. Sure you can admire it for a while but it gets pretty dull after that.

David Pavlich
07-28-2004, 08:42 PM
C'mon, Russell...Sharapova would have been pushed harder if not for all of Williams' mistakes.

Could it be that Ferrari is doing it so well that the other teams are making errors trying to figure out how to contend with Ferrari?

If the other teams don't get it together, then you can figure on hearing the German/Italian national anthems a lot more.

David

speedofpain88
07-28-2004, 08:58 PM
Michael is the best F1 driver ever. It's true that the Ferrari is better than a lot of the other cars, but compare his results to those of Barrichelo. Rubens who is one of the most talented drivers in F1 besided Mike and he's so much off Mike's pace in the exact same car that it's not even funny.

Keep in mind Mike won his first 2 titles with a car that was not the best.

David Pavlich
07-30-2004, 12:54 PM
Michael is the best F1 driver ever. It's true that the Ferrari is better than a lot of the other cars, but compare his results to those of Barrichelo. Rubens who is one of the most talented drivers in F1 besided Mike and he's so much off Mike's pace in the exact same car that it's not even funny.

Keep in mind Mike won his first 2 titles with a car that was not the best.

You will be told that even though the Benneton was down 40 hp to the other top marques, the Benneton was the best chassis, not that Michael was able to get every last ounce of potential out of the underhorsepowered chassis. Of course, the pundits say that today, the Renault is the best chassis, but it's down on power compared to the other top marques. So...why isn't Renault winning? Ahhhhh...the drivers?

David

Russell Finch
08-06-2004, 01:30 AM
So what do you think about Button signing for Williams? I have to say I'm stunned - the BAR has been a better car this year and he and Dave Richards seemed to have an excellent relationship. Mark Webber will be a very tough teammate too.

It leaves BAR looking very short of options for a no. 1 driver next year. They may have to hire Coulthard - JV certainly won't be back there. Anthony Davidson has earned a race drive but I can't see the sponsors being too happy with Davidson and Sato as the 2 drivers of one of the best cars on the grid.

David Pavlich
08-06-2004, 07:47 PM
Russell: I think that Button probably had that deal on the table before he realized how competitive the BAR would be relative to the Williams.

However, I would think that Williams will be paying Button better than BAR. Look what money did with Jacques. He left a team that would have given him a chance at multiple world titles, but the big dinars at BAR spoke much louder.

This will certainly give Button a great opportunity to prove his worth.

The 2005 season could be quite interesting, indeed.

David

speedofpain88
08-07-2004, 12:46 AM
I really wish that Formula 1 would do like 3 or 4 races in which everyone would have to race with the same car. Mike would still be first. There have been few drivers in F1 that have had his skill. Damon Hill was one, remember when he was killing everyone at Hungary in Arrows until his car broke down with a couple laps to go and he went the rest of the way at half speed and Villenueve passed him.

Russell Finch
08-09-2004, 01:50 AM
I reckon BAR's slight slump in mid season where they looked a bit less competitive for a few races made JB think that BAR didn't have the resources to sustain a title challenge with continuous car development and that Williams (if they can get next year's car right) do.

Mark Webber will test him next year - Williams like to have 2 drivers spurring each other on and they will certainly have that.

David Pavlich
08-09-2004, 10:38 AM
The silly season continues...

BAR stated that they have a binding contract that has Button until the end of the 2005 season. Hmmmmmm....

David

Russell Finch
08-18-2004, 01:17 AM
New qualifying proposal here.

http://www.thedvdforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=311953

What do you think??

David Pavlich
08-29-2004, 12:08 PM
Looks like Michael's team missed the setup. The Ferrari wasn't the match of the McLaren today.

JPM was in his thug mode today. Should have been given a drive through, but I guess what goes 'round comes 'round as JPM had a cut down.

Lots of attrition today, AND...

Michael wins his 7th driver's title. 'Nuff said.

David

Phil
08-29-2004, 08:59 PM
Mr. Pavlich, I say to you...tear down this thread! Please.

topspin
08-29-2004, 09:20 PM
Give "titles" only as much credit as they deserve.