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formula16
07-08-2011, 09:42 PM
What is a good poly to cross with natural gut mains? I use a k90 and i'm thinking a low powered poly to tame the gut power

smirker
07-08-2011, 11:00 PM
What is a good poly to cross with natural gut mains? I use a k90 and i'm thinking a low powered poly to tame the gut power

The one I have often seen quoted as an ideal partner to gut is WC Silverstring 1.20.

I haven't played with it personally but it is on my list to try as I recently invested in some gut.

Viking_Golfer
07-08-2011, 11:33 PM
What is a good poly to cross with natural gut mains? I use a k90 and i'm thinking a low powered poly to tame the gut power

My favorite to tame the gut power is Luxilon Black Savage.
If I need more power and softer poly, I use my other favorite AluRough in the crosses. Mind you though - AluRough is NOT soft, just feels much softer than BlackSavage ;)

In my experience when you only use the poly in the crosses, you don't feel the poly dying as fast as when used in the mains or full bed.

I get 10-14 hours out of my VS Team natgut mains and BlackSavage / AluRough crosses hybrid.
I play semi western forehand and single handed eastern backhand with moderate spin.

Other good alternatives for me have been:

1. Weisscanon Silverstring
2. Signum Pro Hyperion
3. Weisscanon TurboTwist
4. Luxilon Alu Power
5. Luxilon Alu Power Fluoro
6. Signum Pro Poly Plasma

Good luck :)

rudester
07-09-2011, 03:36 AM
Black Magic is one of my favorite .

TimothyO
07-09-2011, 04:26 AM
I've tried MANY different multis and polys as crosses with VS gut. THE best by far is MSV CoFocus 17 (open string pattern) or 18 (dense string pattern). No other poly is as durable or offers as much comfort, feel and spin potential in a gut/poly hybrid.

If you love SUPER easy access to spin, great feel, an arm safe string bed, and need your string jobs to last then your best choice is VS / MSV CoFocus. As an added bonus it comes in lots of different colors to match your frame!

Smasher08
07-09-2011, 06:19 AM
The other poly cross that's supposed to be amazing (http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/COFreporter.php) is MSV heptatwist.

meowmix
07-09-2011, 06:31 AM
Just throwing it out there... but if you're not a string breaker, go with full gut and up the tension. It'll last much longer than the poly job...

TimothyO
07-09-2011, 07:23 AM
The other poly cross that's supposed to be amazing (http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/COFreporter.php) is MSV heptatwist.

I tested Hepta Twist and later learned from the G&G folks that CoFocus and HT are the same material. HT tended to bite the gut so friction increased over time. CoFocus is smooth so it lasts forever with guts mains while maintaining low friction.

kiteboard
07-09-2011, 08:07 AM
nrg2 as cross.....

Larrysümmers
07-09-2011, 08:18 AM
what does the cross do? just stiffen up the string bed?

TimothyO
07-09-2011, 08:29 AM
what does the cross do? just stiffen up the string bed?

In gut/poly hybrid it provides a soild, smooth foundation across which the mains can move and then return to position.

At the very least it means you'll never need to straighten your strings since they return to position on their own. String any frame with gut/poly in the mid to low 50s, squeeze two mains together, and they glide back into place. With time the crosses groove the mains so the crosses stay in place too. The mains essentially glide across the crosses.

There's also a theory that main strings snapping back into place are the primary factor BEYOND PROPER TECHNIQUE responsible for spin generation. Some tests have shown that, contrary to conventional wisdom, string texture and gauge do not improve spin by "biting" into the ball.

However, I have found thinner crosses and mains seem to reduce friction thus increasing string movement. On my PSLGT when I switched from VS Touch with 17g crosses to VS Team on 18g crosses spin potential increased significantly.

Poly crosses also reduce the cost of a string job with gut mains. Not a parimary benefit but certainly a nice side benefit.

Larrysümmers
07-09-2011, 09:05 AM
i see. i didnt know that. i knew poly gave more spin because of the snap back but i didnt know that it grooved the cross allowing the gut to slip back, causing more spin.

Viking_Golfer
07-09-2011, 10:11 AM
In gut/poly hybrid it provides a soild, smooth foundation across which the mains can move and then return to position.

At the very least it means you'll never need to straighten your strings since they return to position on their own.

I've uses VSTeam natgut mains and different poly crosses for 3 years at different tension levels and though the poly cross minimises string movement, there still is a lot of it compared to a full poly job !!

So saying you never need to straighten your strings again is not even close to being true. But less than with a full gut job, which has terrible stringmovement even at 65 lbs tension.

Viking_Golfer
07-09-2011, 10:12 AM
nrg2 as cross.....

If you read his post he's asking about what poly to use as cross !!

TimothyO
07-09-2011, 05:53 PM
I've uses VSTeam natgut mains and different poly crosses for 3 years at different tension levels and though the poly cross minimises string movement, there still is a lot of it compared to a full poly job !!

So saying you never need to straighten your strings again is not even close to being true. But less than with a full gut job, which has terrible stringmovement even at 65 lbs tension.

What tension are you stringing at and what is the poly cross?

Once you approach th upper 50s to 60+ I could see strings sticking. Also textured and shaped polys cause increased friction which means strings can stick. You also need to string the crosses about 2 to 4 pounds lower than the gut mains.

At no more than 55# for the gut mains and SMOOTH poly crosses two to four pounds lower I've never had issues with strings sticking, even with a full western grip. My srring beds are pristine except for copious amounts of ball fuzz caught between the sttings. :)

TimothyO
07-09-2011, 05:56 PM
i see. i didnt know that. i knew poly gave more spin because of the snap back but i didnt know that it grooved the cross allowing the gut to slip back, causing more spin.

Yes, it grooves it so much that when you move a poly cross out of position and then back in it makes a loud snapping sound! Meanwhile when you move a gut main it silently returns to position on its own.

As for the increased spin not everyone agrees. TW and others believe their video evidence supports the theory. After trying full homogeneous poly, full hybrid poly, and gut/poly hybrids I believe that it is true. Others disagree.

parasailing
07-09-2011, 06:48 PM
I have tried WC Scorpion, Silverstring, and Black Edge 5E. Scorpion offers a tad more power, Silverstring is a crisper string and has the best tension, and B5E is somewhere in between the two strings.

All three work well but based on some of the suggestions here, I guess I need to try cofocus.

What tensions are you guys string the cofocus at since I usually string the WC around 52lbs and gut around 58lbs.

formula16
07-09-2011, 08:04 PM
i found that the strings (full bed of poly in particular) plays better at low tensions (low 50s high 40s lb). I found that it gave more spin. What tension should i string a gut/poly hybrid in a k90. I notice fed strings quite low

Viking_Golfer
07-09-2011, 10:03 PM
What tension are you stringing at and what is the poly cross?

Once you approach th upper 50s to 60+ I could see strings sticking. Also textured and shaped polys cause increased friction which means strings can stick. You also need to string the crosses about 2 to 4 pounds lower than the gut mains.

At no more than 55# for the gut mains and SMOOTH poly crosses two to four pounds lower I've never had issues with strings sticking, even with a full western grip. My srring beds are pristine except for copious amounts of ball fuzz caught between the sttings. :)

Please see my signature - I state their what 2 polys I use in the cross.
AluRough & BlackSavage.

I've used all the polys in my first reply to the OP as cross strings with VS mains. .

I string accordingly to the racquet I use depending on stiffness of frame, string pattern and depending on whether it's winter or summer.

My current Wilson BLX 6.1 95 16x18 of course needs higher tension than the 18x20 of it model I used last year.

I ALWAYS string the poly 4 lbs lower than the VS Team gut.

I do agree that the textured AluRough makes the whole stringbed move more compared to using the less textured BlackSavage poly in the crosses (at same tension)

I never string higher than 65 lbs for the gut and 61 lbs for the poly.

I had 2 of my BLX 6.1 16x18 strung at VS mains @ 58 lbs and AluRough @ 54 lbs and the moved a lot, also because of the open string pattern if course. The other two BLX 6.1 16x18 were strung higher - VS mains @ 65 lbs and AluRough @ 61 - the strings moved less in the 2 racquets with the higher tension.

But I know - the Wilson BLX 95 6.1 16x18 is pretty terrible when it comes to string movement...... No matter what string you use.

I'm quite experienced gut mains and poly cross user, so I know what I'm talking about.
Dense string patterns will not move much compared to open ones - that's logic.

smirker
07-10-2011, 01:55 AM
Please see my signature - I state their what 2 polys I use in the cross.
AluRough & BlackSavage.

I've used all the polys in my first reply to the OP as cross strings with VS mains. .

I string accordingly to the racquet I use depending on stiffness of frame, string pattern and depending on whether it's winter or summer.

My current Wilson BLX 6.1 95 16x18 of course needs higher tension than the 18x20 of it model I used last year.

I ALWAYS string the poly 4 lbs lower than the VS Team gut.

I do agree that the textured AluRough makes the whole stringbed move more compared to using the less textured BlackSavage poly in the crosses (at same tension)

I never string higher than 65 lbs for the gut and 61 lbs for the poly.

I had 2 of my BLX 6.1 16x18 strung at VS mains @ 58 lbs and AluRough @ 54 lbs and the moved a lot, also because of the open string pattern if course. The other two BLX 6.1 16x18 were strung higher - VS mains @ 65 lbs and AluRough @ 61 - the strings moved less in the 2 racquets with the higher tension.

But I know - the Wilson BLX 95 6.1 16x18 is pretty terrible when it comes to string movement...... No matter what string you use.

I'm quite experienced gut mains and poly cross user, so I know what I'm talking about.
Dense string patterns will not move much compared to open ones - that's logic.

Any experience of using a cross other than poly with gut mains? Reason I ask is I have some more gut to string and I bought some RIP Control to use in the crosses. The most poly-like string I could think of but without the tension loss and comfort issues associated with polys.

Basically I want the longest playable life out of the gut as it is about 10 times more expensive than the usual hybrid I use!:razz:

TimothyO
07-10-2011, 06:11 AM
Viking,

If your gut mains are at 65# you're definitely locking up the string bed. I'm stringing a full ten pounds lower at least. The highest I've gone on gut mains is 55. Usually I string the mains at 51 to 53.

We're both getting string movement on contact. The diffence is that yours are sticking and not sliding/snapping back into place. Mine sliding/snapping easily into their straight/original positions.

Try something in the low 50s and you'll enjoy the "casually accessible" spin potential. Makes spin brain dead easy to achieve.

TimothyO
07-10-2011, 06:15 AM
Any experience of using a cross other than poly with gut mains? Reason I ask is I have some more gut to string and I bought some RIP Control to use in the crosses. The most poly-like string I could think of but without the tension loss and comfort issues associated with polys.

Basically I want the longest playable life out of the gut as it is about 10 times more expensive than the usual hybrid I use!:razz:

My favorite non-poly cross was Xcel 17 Premium. When having arm trouble I tested a truck load of multis and it was the best by far when hybrided with gut mains. Not as good as CoFocus but close. Tends to lock up faster with use while CoFocus remains silky smooth for extended periods.

Viking_Golfer
07-10-2011, 01:44 PM
Viking,

If your gut mains are at 65# you're definitely locking up the string bed. I'm stringing a full ten pounds lower at least. The highest I've gone on gut mains is 55. Usually I string the mains at 51 to 53.

We're both getting string movement on contact. The diffence is that yours are sticking and not sliding/snapping back into place. Mine sliding/snapping easily into their straight/original positions.

Try something in the low 50s and you'll enjoy the "casually accessible" spin potential. Makes spin brain dead easy to achieve.

Problem is I used to use 55 lbs VS natgut mains and 51 lbs Poly crosses, but that was when I used 4 Pure Storm Limited GT 18X20 and 4 BLX 95 6.1 18x20 racquets, which are lower powered than what I currently use: 4 BLX 6.1 95 16x18

I can't control my shots if I string them that low - I get too much power from the VS natgut mains. I need the VS mains at 65 lbs and the poly cross at 61 lbs to get the combination of control and spin and power I need.

Then I have to live with some string movement - but I also got to tell you, that I haven't had the same experience with stringing the natgut mains and poly crosses lower - I got excessive string movement in my 4 BLX 6.1 96 16X18, when I had them strung at VS Team 55 lbs mains and AluRough 51 lbs crosses.

The stringer I use strings for 2 of my contry's former best ATP players, and they also happen to use VS natgut mains and Alu crosses.
So the stringer is very good at stringing natgut.

Maybe AluRough just moves more than the smoother polys like Alu Power, Silverstring,Ppro Line II and SPPP, I don't know. AluRough just plays a bit softer than Alu Power and has a little bit better spin, which is why I use it and like it.
I also KNOW for a fact that open string patterns has terrible string movement as compared to closed string patters, so that also have a lot to do with my experience versus yours !

However your mileage may vary :)

Viking_Golfer
07-10-2011, 02:01 PM
Any experience of using a cross other than poly with gut mains? Reason I ask is I have some more gut to string and I bought some RIP Control to use in the crosses. The most poly-like string I could think of but without the tension loss and comfort issues associated with polys.

Basically I want the longest playable life out of the gut as it is about 10 times more expensive than the usual hybrid I use!:razz:

NO!

Multi in the crosses with gut in the mains is a total waist.
It will break much faster, play worse and you will have excessive string movement.
Can't recommend it !

Instead go for a soft poly, Weisscanon Turbo Twist, as your cross string. It's a great poly !!

I get 10-14 hours out of my VS Nat gut mains and Poly crosses hybrids - and I don't feel the tension loss in the polys as much as compared to when I use the poly in the mains or in a full poly job, where I feel the tension loss is too much after only 6-8 hours.

TimothyO
07-10-2011, 02:37 PM
Problem is I used to use 55 lbs VS natgut mains and 51 lbs Poly crosses, but that was when I used 4 Pure Storm Limited GT 18X20 and 4 BLX 95 6.1 18x20 racquets, which are lower powered than what I currently use: 4 BLX 6.1 95 16x18

I can't control my shots if I string them that low - I get too much power from the VS natgut mains. I need the VS mains at 65 lbs and the poly cross at 61 lbs to get the combination of control and spin and power I need.

Then I have to live with some string movement - but I also got to tell you, that I haven't had the same experience with stringing the natgut mains and poly crosses lower - I got excessive string movement in my 4 BLX 6.1 96 16X18, when I had them strung at VS Team 55 lbs mains and AluRough 51 lbs crosses.

The stringer I use strings for 2 of my contry's former best ATP players, and they also happen to use VS natgut mains and Alu crosses.

However your mileage may vary :)

That makes sense. However, I had the same problem with Alu Rough and that's why I switched to a smooth poly cross.

Viking_Golfer
07-10-2011, 04:21 PM
That makes sense. However, I had the same problem with Alu Rough and that's why I switched to a smooth poly cross.

WoW - then you do got a point :)

Maybe I should revert back to Alu Power Smooth Fluoro.....

Overheadsmash
07-10-2011, 05:09 PM
I like 15 G bab VS or tonic mains, and lux savage or gamma zo twist 16 in the crosses. Good spin and that nice gut feeling. Those two combos NEVER hurt my arm or shoulder either

smirker
07-10-2011, 11:06 PM
My favorite non-poly cross was Xcel 17 Premium. When having arm trouble I tested a truck load of multis and it was the best by far when hybrided with gut mains. Not as good as CoFocus but close. Tends to lock up faster with use while CoFocus remains silky smooth for extended periods.

NO!

Multi in the crosses with gut in the mains is a total waist.
It will break much faster, play worse and you will have excessive string movement.
Can't recommend it !

Instead go for a soft poly, Weisscanon Turbo Twist, as your cross string. It's a great poly !!

I get 10-14 hours out of my VS Nat gut mains and Poly crosses hybrids - and I don't feel the tension loss in the polys as much as compared to when I use the poly in the mains or in a full poly job, where I feel the tension loss is too much after only 6-8 hours.

Thanks for the advice chaps. Viking, I take your point but if you know RIP control it is not your average multi. I will have a half set of gut so will definitely use a poly cross for that one (either Silverstring or TT)

Viking_Golfer
07-11-2011, 01:40 AM
Thanks for the advice chaps. Viking, I take your point but if you know RIP control it is not your average multi. I will have a half set of gut so will definitely use a poly cross for that one (either Silverstring or TT)

I've never played with 'average' multi. I have a 660 feet reel of Babolat Xcel Power 1.25, 12 sets of X-One 1.24 and have tested Wilson K-Gut and NRG2 along with the best multi ever (but worst company ever) Laserfibre Super Natural Gut

Head RIP COntrol is much cheaper than the cheapest multi I've tried ;)

smirker
07-11-2011, 06:18 AM
I've never played with 'average' multi. I have a 660 feet reel of Babolat Xcel Power 1.25, 12 sets of X-One 1.24 and have tested Wilson K-Gut and NRG2 along with the best multi ever (but worst company ever) Laserfibre Super Natural Gut

Head RIP COntrol is much cheaper than the cheapest multi I've tried ;)

I am not feeling a lot of love for the RIP Control!

Out of interest where did you get the LSNG from? I have read a lot of good things about the string but nothing but bad about the company.

I meant "average" in the sense that it is not very much like a multi at all, being low powered and pretty firm in comparison to most multis. The most poly-like multi if you will.

Viking_Golfer
07-11-2011, 11:32 AM
I am not feeling a lot of love for the RIP Control!

Out of interest where did you get the LSNG from? I have read a lot of good things about the string but nothing but bad about the company.

I meant "average" in the sense that it is not very much like a multi at all, being low powered and pretty firm in comparison to most multis. The most poly-like multi if you will.

Bought The last stock of LSNGPS from tw USA back in 2008

jk175d
07-11-2011, 01:13 PM
Any experience of using a cross other than poly with gut mains? Reason I ask is I have some more gut to string and I bought some RIP Control to use in the crosses. The most poly-like string I could think of but without the tension loss and comfort issues associated with polys.


really? Rip Control is just about the most UN-poly like string I can think of! It is so exceedingly soft and devoid of any power, though it does add great feel and comfort to a stiffer poly in a hybrid setup. How in the world do you find it poly-like?

parasailing
07-11-2011, 01:28 PM
Bought The last stock of LSNGPS from tw USA back in 2008

Do you have a set you might be willing trade for either Excel Power or Biphase X1? I would love to try this string and would make it worthwhile :).

You can PM my ID if you are interested in doing so.

Viking_Golfer
07-11-2011, 08:10 PM
Do you have a set you might be willing trade for either Excel Power or Biphase X1? I would love to try this string and would make it worthwhile :).

You can PM my ID if you are interested in doing so.

Sorry, gave my last set to a friend last year :)

smirker
07-12-2011, 01:02 AM
really? Rip Control is just about the most UN-poly like string I can think of! It is so exceedingly soft and devoid of any power, though it does add great feel and comfort to a stiffer poly in a hybrid setup. How in the world do you find it poly-like?

I don't find it poly-like, notice I said "I could find" not " "I have played with"[/I]. I have not played with it before, just basing it on what I have read about the string. It is catergorised as a control string, albeit a soft one so that is how the poly comparison came about.

Sorry if my assesment of it is totally wrong but the impression given of it from the reviews is that it is a low powered control string (and therefore akin to certain poly strings) but with a much softer feel which is what I am looking for to pair with a more lively, powerful gut main.

Your view that it provides great feel is not shared by the majority so it seems that people's opinions are not always objective!

I didn't intend to mislead or misinform anyone, RIP just seems like a good string to pair with gut.

If you have a better suggestion then please share. (genuine comment by the way, I have no problem with people who have a different perspective to me)

mikeler
07-12-2011, 04:07 AM
Any experience of using a cross other than poly with gut mains? Reason I ask is I have some more gut to string and I bought some RIP Control to use in the crosses. The most poly-like string I could think of but without the tension loss and comfort issues associated with polys.

Basically I want the longest playable life out of the gut as it is about 10 times more expensive than the usual hybrid I use!:razz:


RIP Control is poly, just not polyester. :) The polyolefin is softer but still gives some of the properties of polyester.

smirker
07-12-2011, 05:26 AM
RIP Control is poly, just not polyester. :) The polyolefin is softer but still gives some of the properties of polyester.

So I was not wrong in my assessment of it after all! I guess you would take issue with the comments above regarding the amount of feel atributed to this string?

mikeler
07-12-2011, 05:55 AM
So I was not wrong in my assessment of it after all! I guess you would take issue with the comments above regarding the amount of feel atributed to this string?


I could not hit a drop shot to save my life with a full bed of RIP. Lacked feel for me but it may work great for others. Spin is terrific with RIP.

quest01
07-12-2011, 06:30 AM
I use the blx90 and felt a good cross string with natural gut in the mains is luxilon alu power rough. I can hit with a good amount of spin with this setup. The string package is called Wilsons champions choice it comes with a hybrid of wilson natural gut and luxilon alu power rough, ive been using this in my blx 90s for a little while now. Its a nice combination.

ben123
07-12-2011, 07:05 AM
I use the blx90 and felt a good cross string with natural gut in the mains is luxilon alu power rough. I can hit with a good amount of spin with this setup. The string package is called Wilsons champions choice it comes with a hybrid of wilson natural gut and luxilon alu power rough, ive been using this in my blx 90s for a little while now. Its a nice combination.

:p u sound very much like a ******* with this setup lol

Bas
07-12-2011, 07:43 AM
Alu Power Rough

parasailing
07-12-2011, 01:01 PM
Sorry, gave my last set to a friend last year :)

Doh! I guess I will never know what it is like to play with the best multi ever made :(.

cueboyzn
07-18-2011, 05:30 AM
I use the blx90 and felt a good cross string with natural gut in the mains is luxilon alu power rough. I can hit with a good amount of spin with this setup. The string package is called Wilsons champions choice it comes with a hybrid of wilson natural gut and luxilon alu power rough, ive been using this in my blx 90s for a little while now. Its a nice combination.

IMO: Alu rough as a cross string for gut - for a recreational / club-level competitive player who isn't rolling in cash, is shall we say, not the wisest choice. The Alu rough cuts through the gut too quick to make it a sensible choice when budget is a consideration - even for the (small) amount of added spin it allows. I used that once and never again. Rather stick to the Alu smooth version - or preferably WC Silverstring which has much better tension maintenance for the life of the stringjob, when using expensive gut.

jjs891
07-18-2011, 08:01 AM
I think any gut main/poly cross set up will not last very long even if you're not a string breaker. However I really like the way it plays. If budget's not an issue, it's a great set up. I use multi main/poly cross just to save some money but it's only good for ~4hrs. Gut will last longer than multi though.

parasailing
07-18-2011, 09:57 AM
I think any gut main/poly cross set up will not last very long even if you're not a string breaker. However I really like the way it plays. If budget's not an issue, it's a great set up. I use multi main/poly cross just to save some money but it's only good for ~4hrs. Gut will last longer than multi though.

Actually natural gut for me lasted much longer when I put in a smooth poly cross. A full bed of natural gut usually lasts about 8 hours but ever since I went with the hybrid setup with a smooth copoly as a cross, it has lasted much longer than I anticipated about 20 hours.

Of course, you will have to choose a co-poly that offers great tension maintenance such as the Weiss Cannon line of strings, Scorpion, B5E, and SIlverstring.

jjs891
07-18-2011, 10:38 AM
Actually natural gut for me lasted much longer when I put in a smooth poly cross. A full bed of natural gut usually lasts about 8 hours but ever since I went with the hybrid setup with a smooth copoly as a cross, it has lasted much longer than I anticipated about 20 hours.

Of course, you will have to choose a co-poly that offers great tension maintenance such as the Weiss Cannon line of strings, Scorpion, B5E, and SIlverstring.

I'm surprised to hear that gut/poly lasted longer than gut/gut by more than two fold. Wow, I wouldn't have thought that was the case. I used to use full gut and really liked it but got too expensive for me.

parasailing
07-18-2011, 11:11 AM
I'm surprised to hear that gut/poly lasted longer than gut/gut by more than two fold. Wow, I wouldn't have thought that was the case. I used to use full gut and really liked it but got too expensive for me.

I think it is because a smooth poly slides over the natural gut mains when the ball is struck and doesn't cause as much friction burn to the strings. I do get notching but it takes a bit longer to develop than on a full set of natural gut.

jjs891
07-18-2011, 12:07 PM
I think it is because a smooth poly slides over the natural gut mains when the ball is struck and doesn't cause as much friction burn to the strings. I do get notching but it takes a bit longer to develop than on a full set of natural gut.

Now I'm tempted to try gut/poly hybrid.