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kchau
07-24-2011, 04:20 PM
I have issue using poly at 53lb, let alone 50lb. i have to use it at 56 for me to actually keep the ball in.

how are you people stringing it at 40 and 30?

some peole are saying that its low power at 30, but it doenst make sense, and even then, it would seem like the launch angle would be extremely high.

what is the science behind it?

BobFL
07-24-2011, 04:25 PM
Racquet head speed is the key. People who complain about low tensions and who need polys strung at 60+ have old school technique and cannot generate speed needed for that type of a game. Like I said many times, polys are not for everyone.

Up&comer
07-24-2011, 05:23 PM
The key is indeed racket head speed and sound fundamental technique. You have to have lots of fundamentally sound racket head speed which makes the ball stay on longer which makes it still launch around the same height.

The real thing that people don't think about is that in order to gain from poly strings, you have to make them bend to get real use out of them.

When people string low, the string is easier to bend and thus people realize what people have been raving about with the insane spin.

The newly found spin is just a result of them being able to bend the strings more or just simply bend the strings period.

You need lots of fundamentally sound racket head speed to get any use out of poly.

got spin?
07-24-2011, 05:47 PM
The string dosent help you generate more spin, it does have affect as soon as your racket head speed is fast enough. String will do absolutely nothing for you if you dont swing low to high with racket head speed. If you have enough RHS then the string will act as a "rubber band" snapping the ball forward with more spin.

BobFL
07-24-2011, 06:39 PM
The key is indeed racket head speed and sound fundamental technique.

I would just like to add that these 2 are not mutually inclusive. You can have sound technique but low-mid racquet head speed. I personally know quite a few player with very fine technique but their game just don't need or won't benefit from polys and that is perfectly fine.

kchau
07-24-2011, 06:45 PM
so how do i know if i would benefit from trying low strung poly?

TonyB
07-24-2011, 06:48 PM
The feel of a soft poly at 30 lb. is unbeatable. It just feels "solid". Then you sit back and watch the ball do amazing things without changing your strokes at all.

Much credit to Chris from TW for popularizing the use of poly at low tensions on this forum. I was converted immediately after hitting with this setup only once.

Fact is, I've actually let the strings drop in tension and have been playing with the same stringbed for over a month. Sure, the tension is lower, and I have lost a bit of spin and control, but the stringbed is still playable with very little adjustment to my strokes. Yes, there is a point at which the tension loss becomes too great, but it's pretty obvious when that happens.

rufusbgood
07-24-2011, 07:01 PM
I have issue using poly at 53lb, let alone 50lb. i have to use it at 56 for me to actually keep the ball in.



What racquet are you using?

kchau
07-24-2011, 07:06 PM
What racquet are you using?

k61 95
10char

Anton
07-24-2011, 07:25 PM
The string dosent help you generate more spin, it does have affect as soon as your racket head speed is fast enough. String will do absolutely nothing for you if you dont swing low to high with racket head speed. If you have enough RHS then the string will act as a "rubber band" snapping the ball forward with more spin.

Not exactly, yes you need head speed(or at least a ball coming in at an angle), but for same head speed you should get more spin with poly (+ ~20%), as observed here:

http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/stringmovement.php


Key to playing with low tension poly? Western grip and putting a lot of spin on the ball.

babar
07-24-2011, 07:52 PM
I have been playing with low tension polys and really like it. The feeling of the ball sinking in the stringbed is what I like the best. I do get more spin and power with this set-up as well. I have not had to really change my strokes for it and I have pretty basic modern strokes. I generate good racquet head speed also, but I can hit the ball flat with this string set-up also. It just "feels" better when the ball hits the strings.

In terms of science, all I can say is that greater ball pocketing allows me to "feel" my shots better. This "feel" allows me to control my shots with greater consistency.

Now, for me, this sense of "feel" makes all the difference.

POG OS with RPM Blast 18g at 45lbs.

TonyB
07-25-2011, 02:57 AM
Key to playing with low tension poly? Western grip and putting a lot of spin on the ball.


Incorrect. I use a semi-western, leaning more towards eastern, and I get plenty of spin and pace on my shots. I have not changed my grip or my stroke mechanics at all since switching to low tension poly (30 lb.).

Anton
07-25-2011, 03:48 AM
Incorrect. I use a semi-western, leaning more towards eastern, and I get plenty of spin and pace on my shots. I have not changed my grip or my stroke mechanics at all since switching to low tension poly (30 lb.).

what racket?

Power Player
07-25-2011, 07:19 AM
You don't need a western. I was playing with full poly strung low for a while and I liked it a lot. It is still a stiff string and the reality is that I can't do it anymore and need to hybrid just for a softer stringbed.

there are benefits to both tensions..just matters what you like..I do enjoy hitting a little more through the court now with higher tensions again.

edwincen
07-25-2011, 07:21 AM
I don't know how your guys can strung it so low, my shot always goes long if the strung tensioned below 50 with poly

kchau
07-25-2011, 08:33 AM
so how do i know if i would benefit from trying low strung poly?

monday bump

Power Player
07-25-2011, 08:36 AM
Thats just a silly question. No one knows but you. Try it out. As long as you hit hard and with spin you will be fine..if you do not, than poly is a waste of your time anyway.

kchau
07-25-2011, 12:11 PM
just strung up spiky 1.20mm at 35lb. just hitting against the wall it feels amazing, so much ball pocketing, and feel.

this is the science i was looking for, and it confirmed my thoughts on a hypothesis with the energy return being a bell curve:


http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/images/board_photos/allEvsT.jpghttp://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/images/board_photos/allKvT.jpg

Not exactly what you are looking for, but ...

As you can see on the energy return vs tension graph, poly has less energy return at all tensions compared to gut and nylon. What this means is a bit complicated. The question is this: does lower energy return from the strings mean less power (ball velocity)? The answer is that it may or may not. The efficiency of the strings is only part of the story. The other part involves string stiffness. The scenario looks like this:

Let's drop a ball on a secured racquet so that it will not move or bend on impact--only the strings and ball will interact (in a normal tennis hit, about two thirds of the energy goes into moving the racquet and about a third goes into the strings and ball deformations). Strings return energy that goes into them according to the graph (anywhere from about 73-97%). Let's say your string at your current tension returns 95% of the energy that goes into it. But how much energy goes into the strings? The strings and the ball divide up the available energy according to their relative stiffnesses. The softer of the two will get proportionately more of the energy of impact. So, if the stringbed and the ball are of equal stiffness, they will each take 50% of the energy. If the strings are half as stiff as the ball, then they will take in twice the energy (in other words the ball's share will be one third and the strings' share will be two thirds).

The ball returns about 55% of the energy that goes into it (depending some on the speed and angle of impact). The string we are looking returns 95%. What does this mean to our two cases above of a stiff setup and a soft setup?

If the the ball and strings are the same stiffness (which is a "close enough" assumption for conceptual purposes for most nylons strung in the 50-60lb range), then the ball will give back 55% of the energy, for a total of 27.5% return. The strings will give back 95% of 50% for a return of 47.5%. Added together we get a total return of 75% of the energy that went into the ball and strings. (FYI, the square root of energy return is power potential so here we have sqrt of .75 = .866 = power potential of 86.6%, which is so high because the racquet is clamped and does not lose energy in motion and bending)

If the strings are half as stiff as the ball, then we get 55% times 33% = 18.2% return from the ball and 95% times 66% = 62.7% return from the strings for a total return of 81%, which is 6% greater than if the string were twice as stiff (for power potential of 90%).

So lowering the stiffness of the strings compared to the ball lowers the amount of energy that goes into the inefficient ball and raises the amount that goes into the more efficient strings. But our graph shows that lowering the strings stiffness also lowers its energy efficiency. So it is somewhat of a trade-off. The stiffer setup has better string efficiency but has less energy to work with. The softer setup has lower string efficiency but more energy to work with.

Long story short, even if you don't know the relative stiffness of the ball and strings, you do know that no matter what, decreasing string stiffness by lowering tension or changing to a softer string increases the energy flow into the more efficient strings compared to the less efficient ball. But that doesn't necessarily mean more power. To end up with more power, enough extra energy has to be transferred to the strings to more than make up for any decline in string efficiency due to lower tension or due to a change to an inherently less efficient string or material.

What you can see from the graphs is that poly is virtually always stiffer than other materials except at very low tensions and it almost always has less energy return. The combination means that you may get more power going from one poly to a lower tension in the same (or you may not depending on the trade off), but except in extreme setups, you probably won't get more power than other materials that are at the same or even higher tensions. Note: the yellow area in the stiffness vs tension graph is where the 30lb poly is softer than all other higher tensioned strings and the light blue is where the 10lb poly is softer that all other higher tensioned strings.)

This analysis tends to confirm statements in this thread regarding power of poly setups at these lower tensions. Some say more, some say less, some say the same. But in most cases the reports are that "depth" has been greater, no matter the speed. The longer dwell times will allow the ball to stay on the racquet for a further distance of your stroke. Thus the launch will tend to be from a later position in the swing which will tend to launch in a higher trajectory, leading to more depth. (See the other graphs for dwell, deflection, and force on page 9 of this thread.) The longer dwell also helps explain the "spraying." Longer dwell time also exaggerates side to side errors.

ace_it_96
07-25-2011, 12:17 PM
the lower the tension the less friction there is between main and cross strings. With that smaller amount of friction it makes the main strings slide out of alignment to grip the ball then click back into place creating more top spin on the ball, and with more topspin you can hit harder and still have the ball land in

CDestroyer
07-25-2011, 12:21 PM
Racquet head speed is the key. People who complain about low tensions and who need polys strung at 60+ have old school technique and cannot generate speed needed for that type of a game. Like I said many times, polys are not for everyone.

Djokovic plays with 60 pounds tension lately for mains and crosses on a 18 X 20 racquet pattern. Low tension for poly string is a preference that works for some others prefer tight strings for maximum control especially when facing hard hitting players.

I prefer 60 pounds tension after playing with 50 and 55 pounds for a few weeks.

kchau
07-25-2011, 12:28 PM
Djokovic plays with 60 pounds tension lately for mains and crosses on a 18 X 20 racquet pattern. Low tension for poly string is a preference that works for some others prefer tight strings for maximum control especially when facing hard hitting players.

I like 60 pounds tension myself after playing with 50 and 55 pounds for a few weeks.

this is interesting, because the dwell time at 35lb full poly, is close to the dwell time of full gut at 60lb.

I'm really curious to go out to see what my stringed does after seeing all this new information.

kchau
07-27-2011, 08:52 PM
so i gave it a try, and i have to say. just GOBS of spin, i could drop balls almost straight down at the baseline, and there was no vibrations at all, no arm pain even from a stiff first gen poly.

however there is a downside, when you lose tension, you lose pop, i found myself having to swing harder and harder to get pace out of it. hopefully using bhbr will solve this problem.

my serves suffered though, i lost some directional control on my serve.

ethebull
07-28-2011, 04:34 AM
Here's a solid article on the topic.

http://ggtennis.wordpress.com/2011/03/17/the-definitive-guide-to-stringing-polys-and-co-polys/

For my 2 cents, I have enjoyed full poly anywhere from 56 down to 44 pounds. It all depends on the play characteristics of the string. Thinner more powerful strings in the high range, low powered stiff ones work best quite low for me. I have also played with Kevlar hybrids, and would think guys that like poly upwards of 60 might do well to go that route. No trampoline with Kevlar no matter how low the tension.

Tennis Is Magic
07-28-2011, 04:47 AM
Racquet head speed is the key. People who complain about low tensions and who need polys strung at 60+ have old school technique and cannot generate speed needed for that type of a game. Like I said many times, polys are not for everyone.

I have plenty of racquet head speed, and use more topspin than anyone I've ever played against, and I wouldn't dare string a poly below 55 in my current racquet; even with poly at 60, it's powerful. The point of using poly is to get LESS power. If you string a racquet in the low 40s, then what is the point of using a poly in the first place? If anything, it's the guys who string poly at <45 that shouldn't be using poly.

Also, you're telling me juniors who string at 60+ have "old school technique" and the geezers here who've been playing since the era of wooden racquets generate massive racquet head speed to control it? Give me a break. That is one of the stupidest posts you've ever made, and we're all less intelligent as human beings for having seen it.

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll282/2link121/Lol/spirder-man-that-post-gave-me-cancer.jpg

martini1
07-28-2011, 06:01 AM
Another thing with low tension poly is that the drop tension noticeablly quick and they start to slide all over the place without the snap back. Mains on the outside are like dead strings in no time. The lowest I tried was 48 gut, much more playable in 15 hrs than poly at 53. Go figure.

Power Player
07-28-2011, 06:26 AM
I have plenty of racquet head speed, and use more topspin than anyone I've ever played against, and I wouldn't dare string a poly below 55 in my current racquet; even with poly at 60, it's powerful. The point of using poly is to get LESS power. If you string a racquet in the low 40s, then what is the point of using a poly in the first place? If anything, it's the guys who string poly at <45 that shouldn't be using poly.

Also, you're telling me juniors who string at 60+ have "old school technique" and the geezers here who've been playing since the era of wooden racquets generate massive racquet head speed to control it? Give me a break. That is one of the stupidest posts you've ever made, and we're all less intelligent as human beings for having seen it.



You went way overboard with that, and the tasteless quote you put out there is pathetic.

Considering Davydenko strings in the 40s (sometimes lower than 45) I am not sure you know enough about the subject to insult someone's opinion.

The other factor you miss is that low tension poly does not get very powerful like other strings when strung low. It just retains it's elasticity a lot longer and the angle the ball comes off the strings is higher. Go ahead and string the 60's if you want to change your strings every 2-3 hours..I don't see a thing wrong with that either, but if you hit with as much topspin as you claim, it would not be needed.

Last time I checked Nada plays with an extremely powerful stick and strings at 55#s. I seriously doubt you hit with 1/2 the amount of spin with him and yet you need to be at 60#s to control your powerful racquet? LOL.

Go ahead and drop in the 20-30#s full poly tension thread and tell the OP he shouldn't use poly. I'm sure you will be warmly received.

Tennis Is Magic
07-28-2011, 06:46 AM
You went way overboard with that, and the tasteless quote you put out there is pathetic.

Considering Davydenko strings in the 40s (sometimes lower than 45) I am not sure you know enough about the subject to insult someone's opinion.

The other factor you miss is that low tension poly does not get very powerful like other strings when strung low. It just retains it's elasticity a lot longer and the angle the ball comes off the strings is higher. Go ahead and string the 60's if you want to change your strings every 2-3 hours..I don't see a thing wrong with that either, but if you hit with as much topspin as you claim, it would not be needed.

Last time I checked Nada plays with an extremely powerful stick and strings at 55#s. I seriously doubt you hit with 1/2 the amount of spin with him and yet you need to be at 60#s to control your powerful racquet? LOL.

Go ahead and drop in the 20-30#s full poly tension thread and tell the OP he shouldn't use poly. I'm sure you will be warmly received.

Just like there are pros who string full poly at 60+, but examples like Federer and Davydenko who string low are relatively few compared to pros who string poly high.

Doesn't get more powerful? Sure, make a video of yourself hitting with poly at 40 and poly at 60, and you'll see how much more depth you have, it's shocking. Full poly at 40 = my rally shots landing near the baseline or, more often, long. Poly at 60 = my ball landing on the service line to 3/4ths court. I'd rather have the ball bounce short than long. And I DO change strings about that often anyways 'cause after 3 hours, my strings are nearly broken, and I don't have much choice either way, and if anything, that would mean I have to string HIGHER than him to control my shots because I don't hit with as much spin as Nadal. Please, use your flawed logic more. It makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside.

Power Player
07-28-2011, 07:04 AM
Don't take everything so personal. Seems like every post you make is filled with some kind of anger. Reread how you posted to Bob for an example.

You said you could not imagine hitting at under 55#s yet you use heavy topspin.

I am saying right now that if you hit with as much heavy spin as you claim, it would not be an issue. You just have to adjust.

You just admitted that you do not hit with as much spin as Nadal, but you would prefer to have the ball bounce on the service line anyway? Most people prefer depth. I hit with heavy top and I know I do. To me that is flawed logic.

It is also just a matter of time before your joints start complaining. IMO, 60#s full poly is a sign that you need to make a stroke adjustment. I fail to believe you could not do what you are doing now at 55#s.

The other thing is that the power level of poly can drop at lower tensions. That is the other thing you do not understand. It has been documented multiple times and is pretty common knowledge.

I don't need to video my strokes to know what low tension poly is like. I hit with it plenty. It is a fantasy for guys who hit like you to be honest. You just have to try it out for yourself and give it an hour or so to adjust. You may love it..you may hate it..but it is not uncontrollable once you figure it out.

I got the same depth after the adjustment. Honestly. Poly is a weird string and you can't write off low tensions and other people's opinions because on it like you are doing.

Rogael Naderer
07-28-2011, 07:28 AM
my ball landing on the service line to 3/4ths court. .

Do you really play tennis? Give me or any of my opponents a ball there and it's point over more than 50% of the time.

Tennis Is Magic
07-28-2011, 07:30 AM
Don't take everything so personal. Seems like every post you make is filled with some kind of anger. Reread how you posted to Bob for an example.

Same could be said for a lot of posters around here.

You said you could not imagine hitting at under 55#s yet you use heavy topspin.

And?

I am saying right now that if you hit with as much heavy spin as you claim, it would not be an issue. You just have to adjust.

You're right, it wouldn't be an issue, but it is a preference. If I can hit a rally ball in the middle of no man's land consistently, I'm happy. That gives me almost no chance to miss, unless I just hit an ungodly awful ball that should be out with ANY string and racquet, like a shank.

You just admitted that you do not hit with as much spin as Nadal, but you would prefer to have the ball bounce on the service line anyway? Most people prefer depth. I hit with heavy top and I know I do. To me that is flawed logic.

To you, that's flawed logic. To me, that's higher margin for error. My balls still bounce enough that people aren't doing anything with it.

It is also just a matter of time before your joints start complaining. IMO, 60#s full poly is a sign that you need to make a stroke adjustment. I fail to believe you could not do what you are doing now at 55#s.

Okay, the 55 was a hyperbole, but I still maintain that I'd rather have a poly at 60 than at 55. In my current racquet, I strung MSV Focus HEX 1.10 at 60 once, and it still felt springy. I like stiff string beds, and as of now, I have no arm pain to complain of, so that's a non-issue.

The other thing is that the power level of poly can drop at lower tensions. That is the other thing you do not understand. It has been documented multiple times and is pretty common knowledge.

Would like to see these documentations, but no poly I've ever used had such a reaction when strung lower.

I don't need to video my strokes to know what low tension poly is like. I hit with it plenty. It is a fantasy for guys who hit like you to be honest. You just have to try it out for yourself and give it an hour or so to adjust. You may love it..you may hate it..but it is not uncontrollable once you figure it out.

I've stated that I've tried it on multiple occasions, and did, in fact, hate it. Cut it out as soon as I got home.

I got the same depth after the adjustment. Honestly. Poly is a weird string and you can't write off low tensions and other people's opinions because on it like you are doing.

If I never tried it, sure, that would be inappropriate, but I have tried it, and did not like it at all. Anyone that claims I've never tried it is incorrect. It's not for me, and I have no intentions of wasting another set of string to reiterate to myself what I already know.

10charrrrr

Rogael Naderer
07-28-2011, 07:33 AM
Do you really play tennis? Give me or any of my opponents a ball there and it's point over more than 50% of the time.

Unless of course you are hitting amazing angles, in which case, too good.:)

In any case if you are winning and your body is comfortable with it, enjoy.

Power Player
07-28-2011, 07:35 AM
For documentation, see John Elliot, a master stringer who strings for pros.

I wish more guys I played hit short balls..it takes so much energy to use that spin and the "low margin of error" is not that low when you don't rip the ball enough and it drops right into the strike zone.

We have even seen Nadal flatten his game out a lot more lately due to this.

But everyone plays a different way.

Tennis Is Magic
07-28-2011, 07:52 AM
For documentation, see John Elliot, a master stringer who strings for pros.

I wish more guys I played hit short balls..it takes so much energy to use that spin and the "low margin of error" is not that low when you don't rip the ball enough and it drops right into the strike zone.

We have even seen Nadal flatten his game out a lot more lately due to this.

But everyone plays a different way.

I've never found hitting topspin tiring, even in very long matches (2 1/2+ hours).

kchau
07-28-2011, 08:37 AM
tennis is magic: go look at the charts i have posted on the first page. they are made by the tw professor, and from what i have tested so far follows.

the energy return or "pop" at 35lb of poly equates to the energy return and "pop" at around 56lb.
the energy return of most strings is not linearly related to the tension. its a square function with the peak at around 50lb, and the stiffness is a cubic function.

i understand where you are coming from and i was just as skeptical as you. all i can tell you is that i tried it and it took me by surprise. i was expecting my racquet to turn into a catapult but it wasn't. there was gobs of spin, great control, and no "excessive power" that one would expect.

also the string that i used which caused me severe forearm sharp pains at 56, was amazingly comfortable at 35.

i was super skeptical about all these findings until i saw the charts posted by the tw prof. that was when i decided to try it. i wouldn't have without the science backing.

Power Player
07-28-2011, 10:54 AM
Yeah this is why I don't get what he is saying.

He claims to get massive racquet head speed and hit with the most spin of anyone he has played with. Yet he could not control low tension poly? It makes zero sense. I can relate to his preference for a tighter stringbed...I too prefer that, but I had no issue with low tension poly in terms of depth and control. It just took me an hour and I got used to it.

It's just ignorance to tell people who string under 45#s that they shouldn't be using poly to begin with.

CDestroyer
07-28-2011, 12:03 PM
What tension do you use Power Player?

Power Player
07-28-2011, 12:05 PM
I hybrid now. I like 56/58#s or 58/60 depending on the cross.

Full poly I liked 45-52#s depending on the string.

When I started with full poly I treated it like Sgut and was at 58-60#s. Was not really so hot after a while. But I didn't want to string every 3 hours or so.

CDestroyer
07-28-2011, 12:29 PM
So you wouldn't string a poly higher than 52 pounds?

Power Player
07-28-2011, 12:33 PM
Full poly? I preferred to keep it under. I hit with heavy topspin and could control the low tensions just fine. I don't like what high tension poly can do to your joints over time if you don't switch it out every 3 hours.

But I prefer higher tensions in general, so I went back to a hybrid which helps extend the life of the string bed a lot and keep it softer on the joints.

CDestroyer
07-28-2011, 12:36 PM
So what is your favorite hybrid setup now?

Power Player
07-28-2011, 12:38 PM
Black Magic and OG Sheep Micro at 56/60 is so far the king. It doesn't have any string movement which is a nice bonus.

Black Magic and Mantis Comfort is my favorite softer setup but doesn't last very long.

whomad15
07-28-2011, 12:55 PM
Incorrect. I use a semi-western, leaning more towards eastern, and I get plenty of spin and pace on my shots. I have not changed my grip or my stroke mechanics at all since switching to low tension poly (30 lb.).

Same technique here, but I only went from 60lbs to 50lbs. Planning on going in the low 40's on the next string job, it's just so much nicer on the arm.

big bang
07-28-2011, 01:07 PM
Im with PP on this one!
I grew up in a world without magic polyester and back then I strung very tight 60-70 from when I was 15 and on, the older I got the tighter I had to string. I play on clay only and play the typical spanish type of clay court tennis - extreme spin!. When the poly-madness first started I picked a few sets up and strung them like I allways did, played horrible!. I continued using my regular strings but a few years ago I started to string with poly, first medium tension (-10% compared to normal tension) and it played a lot better, lately I began to string at low tension and its so nice, lots of control, massive spin but its not over powered. I have played PB10 mid at 48 lbs, TGK 238.5 at 50 and lots of other frames around that tension. The only one I had to string at 55 lbs was Ozone tour. I even used low powered gut/alu on my TGK´s.

So point is for heavy spin you need to string gut and other synthetics tight. With poly you dont have to because its so stiff and low powered that I sometimes feel I got too much spin out of it. Lots of pros and other very good players use polys at low tension.

Makes me wonder what level TIM plays at to come with a statement like that.

pyrokid
07-28-2011, 02:06 PM
I think TIM might be thinking that the string has more power at low tensions because the launch angle is just higher which makes his shots land deeper.

big bang
07-28-2011, 02:13 PM
I think TIM might be thinking that the string has more power at low tensions because the launch angle is just higher which makes his shots land deeper.
Yes hes not hitting enough topspin LOL:)

Tennis Is Magic
07-28-2011, 03:34 PM
I think TIM might be thinking that the string has more power at low tensions because the launch angle is just higher which makes his shots land deeper.

Either way, I'd still like my shots to land at about 3/4ths court. It's much more manageable to do that at 60 than 40.

kchau
07-28-2011, 03:45 PM
Either way, I'd still like my shots to land at about 3/4ths court. It's much more manageable to do that at 60 than 40.

try 30.

very manageable.

Tennis Is Magic
07-28-2011, 03:57 PM
Yeah this is why I don't get what he is saying.

He claims to get massive racquet head speed and hit with the most spin of anyone he has played with. Yet he could not control low tension poly? It makes zero sense. I can relate to his preference for a tighter stringbed...I too prefer that, but I had no issue with low tension poly in terms of depth and control. It just took me an hour and I got used to it.

It's just ignorance to tell people who string under 45#s that they shouldn't be using poly to begin with.

Like it's ignorance to say poly should never be strung over 55, like almost everyone here claims? Apparently, it's only ignorance if you go against the grain.

Could I control it a poly at 45? In the right racquet, yeah. In a 500 Tour, that's a bigger ask. But would I play optimally? No, I would not. I tried using a poly in a match once, at 40 pounds, and I played abysmal tennis, with serves and aggressive cuts at the ball missing by feet, not inches. Switch to a racquet strung at 60, and guess what? I win the second set. Lose the tiebreaker, but that was my experience. Missing balls by a foot and more, or hitting ground strokes and serves 5 feet in. You can insult me all you want, I wish I could say I expected more from middle-aged men, but that's MY preference, and when other people impose their preferences, it's okay, but when I do, it's blasphemy. I think some of you need to take your heads out of your self-righteous asses.

try 30.

very manageable.

I will definitely try 30, despite the fact I played some of the worst tennis I've put on the court in years using a poly at 40. Makes so much sense.

ElMagoElGato
07-28-2011, 04:54 PM
Forget about 30 or 40. It's more important that low tension makes balls higher because of larger bent angle. And nobody says low tension is less power. The result is obvious. You never land the ball inside the baseline. Some people can adjust the angle, then they're all right. If not, forget it.

Tennis Is Magic
07-28-2011, 05:15 PM
Forget about 30 or 40. It's more important that low tension makes balls higher because of larger bent angle. And nobody says low tension is less power. The result is obvious. You never land the ball inside the baseline. Some people can adjust the angle, then they're all right. If not, forget it.

You're right, some people in this thread say lower tension = less power.

TenFanLA
07-28-2011, 05:36 PM
TIM, your reasoning might not be always sound and delivery sometimes a little rough, but I say go by your personal experience and what works for you. If you feel you play best at 60lbs poly, then who is to say otherwise? I mean, personally I don't like women who are wide-bodied but if some guys like that, who is to say otherwise? Let a player play!

ethebull
07-28-2011, 05:37 PM
Here is my take. Poly does not get out of control at reasonably low tensions. I play some as low as 44, and most no higher than 54. The benefit of going lower is added touch and feel for less than full shots. Poly in the neighborhood of 60 and above is like playing with a paddle on touch shots. Not much nuance there. On baseline power exchanges, a lower tension has a higher launch angle. For many of us, this is an easier adjustment to make compared to the loss of touch that higher tensions inflict. Not much more to say... Choose your poison.

tlm
07-28-2011, 07:44 PM
You don't need a western. I was playing with full poly strung low for a while and I liked it a lot. It is still a stiff string and the reality is that I can't do it anymore and need to hybrid just for a softer stringbed.

there are benefits to both tensions..just matters what you like..I do enjoy hitting a little more through the court now with higher tensions again.


Exactly PP i have experimented a lot with polys or hybrids at different tensions. But what you are saying about the higher tensions letting you hit through the court more is right on the money.

I would like to use the lower tensions because it is easier on the arm and the string lasts longer. But the fact is you can not swing as free and easy at these lower tensions, especially in the heat of summer the ball flys to easily.

The low tensions do not give the same bite as high tensions plus they do not give the built in restricted flight that higher tensions do. If this super low tension is so great then why don't the pro players use it?

Most of the pro's are in the mid 50's, plus you have to remember that they change their rackets every half hour or so to a new string job. So even though they might only be around 55 lbs. they are only using that string job for a very short time.

Power Player
07-28-2011, 08:32 PM
TIM, your reasoning might not be always sound and delivery sometimes a little rough, but I say go by your personal experience and what works for you. If you feel you play best at 60lbs poly, then who is to say otherwise? I mean, personally I don't like women who are wide-bodied but if some guys like that, who is to say otherwise? Let a player play!

LOL. I agree there. He just likes to insult people subtly.I doubt many of us are "middle aged", it's just a kid getting mad and lashing out for no reason.

The facts are he made it out like anyone who uses low tension poly should not be using poly and that is pure ignorance. If you want to play full poly at 60#s, go for it. I have said over and over that I know why you would do it, but if you think you are some young stud and your joints will never hurt until you are 40, you are fooling yourself. I personally would suggest hybriding at the first sign of any twinge just to be safe.

Tlm, some pros actually do use low tensions. You have to think that this is a newer trend and why would a pro who is used to one setup ever switch? It is a tough decision to make when you are making your living on the courts.

travlerajm
07-30-2011, 11:20 AM
Based on my experience, high launch angle is not desirable. It's ok for topspin groundstrokes, but not for volleys. Stringbeds that produce high launch angle on groundstrokes tend to create "pop fly outs" on volleys against heavily spun passing shots, or dumps into the net on volleys against heavy underspin passing shots. That is, you're launch angle is dependent on the spin of the incoming ball, and that's not good for control.

I used to think that high launch angle was an inevitable side effect of strings that bite the ball better, but recently, I've discovered that it's possible to get great spin without the side effect of high launch angle.

If you have strings that are soft enough to allow the ball to "dent" or "pocket" into the stringbed, it results in high launch angle. What you want instead is a stringbed that still allows the center of the stringbed to deflect a lot (for power, spin, and dwell time), but not to "dent" or "pocket". That is, you want stiff/firm in the middle where the ball hits the strings, but soft and stretchy around the periphery, to allow more deflection at impact.

Using poly's at really low tension actually amplifies the negative side effect of high launch angle. So I don't recommend it to anyone.

The way to get great spin and control without the bad side effect of high launch angle is here:

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=389303

TonyB
07-30-2011, 03:33 PM
Based on my experience, high launch angle is not desirable. It's ok for topspin groundstrokes, but not for volleys. Stringbeds that produce high launch angle on groundstrokes tend to create "pop fly outs" on volleys against heavily spun passing shots, or dumps into the net on volleys against heavy underspin passing shots. That is, you're launch angle is dependent on the spin of the incoming ball, and that's not good for control.




Funny, my volleys have never been better since I switched to poly at around 30 lb. Everything feels solid, no fly outs or net dumps.

travlerajm
07-30-2011, 03:38 PM
Funny, my volleys have never been better since I switched to poly at around 30 lb. Everything feels solid, no fly outs or net dumps.

How is your launch angle compared to poly in the 40s?

Hmm, I've gone as low as 45 with poly in 16x18 EXO3 Graphit mid, but didn't try lower.

corners
07-30-2011, 04:23 PM
How is your launch angle compared to poly in the 40s?

Hmm, I've gone as low as 45 with poly in 16x18 EXO3 Graphit mid, but didn't try lower.

Hey Trav, your method of skipping outer crosses is very clever. I'm going to give that a try. But what about the frame - would you do this with an irreplaceable racquet?

Regarding launch angle, I've tried soft copolys at 30,35 and 40 in SW ~ 330 (26.5") frames and found it possible to adjust on volleys. Not as good as a boardy, high-tension syngut for me but quite doable. However, I see your point about launch angle difference in volleying topspin and underspin passing shots. I see a lot of flatter balls so I probably haven't seen this so much. That would be a big issue at higher levels of play, for sure.

But it sounds like 14x19 will give best of both worlds.

drgchen
07-30-2011, 04:27 PM
Are there many pro tennis players who string with poly under 50?

TonyB
07-30-2011, 05:10 PM
How is your launch angle compared to poly in the 40s?

Hmm, I've gone as low as 45 with poly in 16x18 EXO3 Graphit mid, but didn't try lower.

Launch angle? Who knows. All I know is that even after stringing at 30 lb., I haven't had to change my stroke mechanics at all. The ball seems to be coming off the strings just about the same.

I haven't played with poly in the 40s. My normal setup is poly mains at 52 and nat gut crosses at 54. Compared to that setup, the full poly at 30-35 lb. is MUCH softer and has more pocketing. A bit more power, but it's controllable. I have also used a full bed of syn gut at 52 lb. Again, not nearly as soft, not nearly as much spin, and comparable power to poly at 30 lb. I've even used Polystar Energy at 30 lb. and loved it. If it held tension a bit better, that would be my string and tension of choice.

From what I understand, stringing poly in the 40s isn't as good all around as using poly in the 30s. You have to make the commitment and go straight down into the 30s without "testing the waters" at 45.

mawashi
03-11-2012, 07:58 PM
Though I'll revive this thread for more information.

Here's what got me thinking.

I was playing with balls that had loss a bit of pressure n conditions were a tad heavy n wet but I was ripping them all over.

Balls were clearing over the net at a good 3-5 feet but had so much spin they were landing well inside the baseline but had tons of power n speed.

I've always been using tensions above 55lbs but could never recreate the same feeling n dwell time I had on that day.

The feeling of the ball just laying on the strings getting pancaked n knowing exactly where it was going was just amazing!

So I was wondering if lowering the tensions n using a lower power poly would somehow give that same feel but I am really worried that it would just give me so much power that control would be all lost.

However, the feeling of higher tensions isn't helping me... smaller sweetspot, stiffer n lacking feel.

Is lower tensions the answer?

luishcorreia
03-12-2012, 09:47 AM
So.. how can we differentiate a low tension strung poly from a dead poly?

if I string it at 50lbls and come here to thsi forum saying: "listen, my string has lost a lot of tension and it's now at 30lbls". You'all would say "cut it out, the string is dead".

And stringing it at a low tension (e.g. 30 lbls) is not the same as a dead poly?

Thanks in advance.

mixedmedia
03-12-2012, 09:53 AM
Tension loss is just that, tension loss; string death is a loss of elasticity to the point it is unplayable (or not advisable to play with). That's how I've come to understand it.

mixedmedia
03-12-2012, 09:55 AM
Depending on the rates at which both happen, either one (or both) can be the reason for needing to restring.

anubis
03-12-2012, 10:30 AM
Noob question: is there any danger to the racquet by stringing with less tension? Racquet makers put a recommended tension range on each racquet. If you're going under the bottom-end of the range by as much as 15 or 20 pounds, can that damage the racquet somehow?

mixedmedia
03-12-2012, 10:35 AM
No, I don't see how it could. Unless you get so angry hitting balls out that you smack the racquet on the ground, it shouldn't negatively impact the racquet.