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TheMagicianOfPrecision
08-26-2011, 07:32 AM
Or is he simply just out of form?

I personally dont think he is declining, how could he do that at 25? I know about his mileage and his brutal style of play etc etc, but still, really!?:shock:

I have counted him out many times already and I dont dare to do that ever again because usually he dissapoints me terribly by winning the title!

2011 USO there is so much at stake, so many questions will be answered.

IF Murray wins USO, If if if...then I think he will go on and win 3-5 GS in his career. If he doesnt win it, im afraid he will end his career with 0 Slams.

I think Nadal will win USO this year again. Yes. Ill place a bet on him anyway, so it will be a win-win-situation.

chrischris
08-26-2011, 07:36 AM
Or is he simply just out of form?

I personally dont think he is declining, how could he do that at 25? I know about his mileage and his brutal style of play etc etc, but still, really!?:shock:

I have counted him out many times already and I dont dare to do that ever again because usually he dissapoints me terribly by winning the title!

2011 USO there is so much at stake, so many questions will be answered.

IF Murray wins USO, If if if...then I think he will go on and win 3-5 GS in his career. If he doesnt win it, im afraid he will end his career with 0 Slams.

I think Nadal will win USO this year again. Yes. Ill place a bet on him anyway, so it will be a win-win-situation.


Ever heard of Bjorn Borg or Tracy Austin?

jmverdugo
08-26-2011, 07:38 AM
I think so, he needs to do something about it, it is mental and it is physical.

Clarky21
08-26-2011, 07:38 AM
I do think he is in decline,and for some reason,it has been rapid this year. He played well at the start of the year up until Doha. Something happened there,and he has not recovered from it since.

And I don't see him winning the USO this year,or any year for the rest of his career. He had to max out his form last year just to be able to win it once. More than that is too much to ask.

PSNELKE
08-26-2011, 07:52 AM
Or is he simply just out of form?

I personally dont think he is declining, how could he do that at 25? I know about his mileage and his brutal style of play etc etc, but still, really!?:shock:

I have counted him out many times already and I dont dare to do that ever again because usually he dissapoints me terribly by winning the title!

2011 USO there is so much at stake, so many questions will be answered.

IF Murray wins USO, If if if...then I think he will go on and win 3-5 GS in his career. If he doesnt win it, im afraid he will end his career with 0 Slams.

I think Nadal will win USO this year again. Yes. Ill place a bet on him anyway, so it will be a win-win-situation.

I agree with you..As for the last statement: No you dont. :D

Polaris
08-26-2011, 07:54 AM
(He reached a higher level of tennis at this year's Wimbledon than last year's Wimbledon.

He served better at Cincy than last year, by far)

The cool thing about being a revisionist is that you can say all the ******** you want, and still seem like you are making a perfectly normal statement.

DjokovicForTheWin
08-26-2011, 08:15 AM
Nadal is neither declining NOR is he out of form. He is just not good enough to beat the Djoker. Only idiots who know nothing about tennis think he is. Is David Ferrer continuously out of form because he has never won a slam?

Murrayfan31
08-26-2011, 08:18 AM
Nadal is finished. Done.

tennis_fan_182
08-26-2011, 08:40 AM
(Nadal is not even out of form. He reached a higher level of tennis at this year's Wimbledon than last year's Wimbledon. And he usually takes a while to adapt to hardcourts, so did anyone really expect him to be in great hardcourt form at Montreal/Cincy? He served better at Cincy than last year, by far)

So you admit that even this 'best ever' Nadal got slaughtered by the new 'best ever' Djokovic on the latter's worst surface? Since Nadal's best is inferior to Djokovic's best, the match must therefore be on Djokovic's racket whenever the two meet, perhaps even on clay?

Btw, I can't believe anyone is even arguing the likelihood of a Federer or even a Soderling, Ferrer, Fish...etc... reaching the final of this slam.

The final is a complete DJokovic/Nadal LOCK.

Sentinel
08-26-2011, 08:43 AM
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/images/icons/icon1.gif Is Nadal REALLY declining?

I hope so.

Hehe.
Relax guys. apologies to zagor.

Marius_Hancu
08-26-2011, 08:44 AM
he's on a downhill slope
look at the match with Dodig

Crisstti
08-26-2011, 08:49 AM
Nah, I don't think so. Unless there's a lack of interest on his part.

batz
08-26-2011, 09:10 AM
Or is he simply just out of form?

I personally dont think he is declining, how could he do that at 25? I know about his mileage and his brutal style of play etc etc, but still, really!?:shock:

I have counted him out many times already and I dont dare to do that ever again because usually he dissapoints me terribly by winning the title!

2011 USO there is so much at stake, so many questions will be answered.

IF Murray wins USO, If if if...then I think he will go on and win 3-5 GS in his career. If he doesnt win it, im afraid he will end his career with 0 Slams.

I think Nadal will win USO this year again. Yes. Ill place a bet on him anyway, so it will be a win-win-situation.

Ladbrokes are refunding all losing bets if Murray wins the USO. Oh and I agree with you - Rafa is not in decline, he's just a bit out of form.

celoft
08-26-2011, 09:10 AM
I think he is.

Might win 1 or 2 more slams max.

All those who were predicting he would tie/break Fed's records were wrong.

sureshs
08-26-2011, 09:13 AM
Read the latest Tennis magazine and Chrissie's editorial. She attributes it to the 7 year itch commonly found in pro players.

aprilfool
08-26-2011, 09:20 AM
He's focused on catching Federer. No matter what he says in interviews.
He'll be in the finals of the US OPen.

TMF
08-26-2011, 09:22 AM
Nah, I don't think so. Unless there's a lack of interest on his part.

You don't lose interest or motivation at 25, and Nadal still has a lot to prove. Otherwise there's something wrong with him. Maybe he's just afraid to lose and can't stand it. True champion will fight his way out, and don't lose his focus. Sure, he got knocked down, but get up and fight !

Fed was at his age still has alot to prove and kept going. He handled pressure quite well, now it's time for Nadal. If he can't, then he's not man enough.

celoft
08-26-2011, 09:27 AM
He'll be in the finals of the US OPen.

Not if Murray has his say.

Crisstti
08-26-2011, 09:37 AM
You don't lose interest or motivation at 25, and Nadal still has a lot to prove. Otherwise there's something wrong with him. Maybe he's just afraid to lose and can't stand it. True champion will fight his way out, and don't lose his focus. Sure, he got knocked down, but get up and fight !

Fed was at his age still has alot to prove and kept going. He handled pressure quite well, now it's time for Nadal. If he can't, then he's not man enough.

Some do. What about Borg?.

Fed's case is different, I think. He has always had his girlfriend/wife with him. Rafa doesn't see his girlfriend that much during the year, nor his family and friends, which must take it's toll (especially since he's so close to them). He's also been competing at the highest level longer than Fed had been at 25. And he has won pretty much all of importance to win. He's said how he finds exhausting the intense focus that's requiered all the time... I can see how he could be losing interest.

Mind you, I hope he isn't. I'd like to keep seing him play.

CDestroyer
08-26-2011, 09:44 AM
I think he is.

Might win 1 or 2 more slams max.

All those who were predicting he would tie/break Fed's records were wrong.

Buttboy won't break Feds record only because of the massive Novak of Djokovic.

TennezSport
08-26-2011, 09:47 AM
You don't lose interest or motivation at 25, and Nadal still has a lot to prove. Otherwise there's something wrong with him.

Tell that to the guy most compared to Rafa, Bjorn Borg who retired at the USO at 25. 2 years ago Unc T asked Babolat to come up with a new string to help Rafa cause he was getting older; RPM Blast was born. Rafa has been injured two or more times for the last 9 consecutive years, because of his style of play. His determination is what got him through many a tough match and now players have a very good game plan against Rafa, so even if he does win it takes a lot out of him.

Rafa recently stated that Novak is in his head; Rafa recently lost to Dodig and Fish and complained that he was tired after a 6 week vacation and having played 3 matches all summer. His foot is hurting again along with tender knees. Again his determination will carry him far, but how much more can he take as the fear factor wanes with other players. This is why Chrissy made the statement that she did in Tennis.

Cheers, TennezSport :cool:

TennisFan3
08-26-2011, 09:57 AM
I think Nadal will win USO this year again.

Sound like good Science Fiction :)

As it stands, Nadal is not even in the top 4 or 5 to win the UsOpen. For heaven's sake, have you seen Nadal in the past month?

Clarky21
08-26-2011, 10:01 AM
Sound like good Science Fiction :)

As it stands, Nadal is not even in the top 4 or 5 to win the UsOpen. For heaven's sake, have you seen Nadal in the past month?

I know. I think the people who are predicting him to win don't really believe he will. It's a jinxing effort as if Nadal needs anymore jinxing for him to lose. He is doing well at that all on his own.

Netspirit
08-26-2011, 10:12 AM
He has started to decline, compared to his peak. However, this does not mean that he will drop out of top 2 any time soon, or will not climb back to 1. He is not alone there on tour.

ViscaB
08-26-2011, 10:18 AM
I don't think we can speak of a decline as in principle his season is a success already. Winning the FO and getting to the final of Wimbledon is certainly above his objective (of winning a slam each season). Only one other player has stepped up his game else Nadal would have done another double. It remains to be seen how long Djokovic can keep up.

phishua
08-26-2011, 10:42 AM
Tell that to the guy most compared to Rafa, Bjorn Borg who retired at the USO at 25. 2 years ago Unc T asked Babolat to come up with a new string to help Rafa cause he was getting older; RPM Blast was born. Rafa has been injured two or more times for the last 9 consecutive years, because of his style of play. His determination is what got him through many a tough match and now players have a very good game plan against Rafa, so even if he does win it takes a lot out of him.

Rafa recently stated that Novak is in his head; Rafa recently lost to Dodig and Fish and complained that he was tired after a 6 week vacation and having played 3 matches all summer. His foot is hurting again along with tender knees. Again his determination will carry him far, but how much more can he take as the fear factor wanes with other players. This is why Chrissy made the statement that she did in Tennis.

Cheers, TennezSport :cool:

I didn't know that Babolat RPM Blast was Toni Nadal's doing! Where did you hear/read about that?

I agree that if Rafa has been off this year it is mental. Seems he has had injuries, both serious and minor, during most of his pro career. But he has always been able to overcome them if he believes in himself and is determined to win.

We will see! I think he could win the Open, but most like will not. He said on Letterman the other night that it was going to be very difficult, and if he doesn't believe that he can win, he will not.

monfed
08-26-2011, 10:43 AM
Sound like good Science Fiction :)

As it stands, Nadal is not even in the top 4 or 5 to win the UsOpen. For heaven's sake, have you seen Nadal in the past month?

Have you seen Nadal's draw? Who's gonna beat him,David Ferrer? :lol:

Nadal's a lock ATLEAST for the semis.
Besides,do you really think a mental midget like Murray is gonna beat Nadal?

People always forget that you have to actually BEAT Nadal. He doesn't just roll over and die.

TTMR
08-26-2011, 10:44 AM
Nadal did nothing at Canada or Cincinnati last year either, and he went on to dominate the US Open (albeit with what turned out to be a breeze draw, but still).

The one difference is that as of last year's US Open, Nadal had never lost in a slam final except to Federer, and that was back when Nadal was a serious underdog in 2007. He is not used to losing in finals. But honestly, I think the mental aspect of tennis is exaggerated--often to the point of hyperbole when vacuous dolts like Mary Carillo speak on the subject.

Ultimately, I think Nadal will be back with a vengeance. If the oddsmakers have him longer than Federer, they are insane. Nadal has much more of a chance to win this tournament than Federer, or Murray for that matter. Personally I'd give anything to see something other than a Nadal/Djokovic or Nadal/Federer final, but I'd say at least one of those is quite probable.

CDestroyer
08-26-2011, 10:45 AM
I didn't know that Babolat RPM Blast was Toni Nadal's doing! Where did you hear/read about that?

I agree that if Rafa has been off this year it is mental. Seems he has had injuries, both serious and minor, during most of his pro career. But he has always been able to overcome them if he believes in himself and is determined to win.

We will see! I think he could win the Open, but most like will not. He said on Letterman the other night that it was going to be very difficult, and if he doesn't believe that he can win, he will not.

Thats total bs. He is just believing what Babolat marketing pigs spoon feeds the pubic.

He won't see the 2nd week of the USO.

jackson vile
08-26-2011, 10:48 AM
Or is he simply just out of form?

I personally dont think he is declining, how could he do that at 25? I know about his mileage and his brutal style of play etc etc, but still, really!?:shock:

I have counted him out many times already and I dont dare to do that ever again because usually he dissapoints me terribly by winning the title!

2011 USO there is so much at stake, so many questions will be answered.

IF Murray wins USO, If if if...then I think he will go on and win 3-5 GS in his career. If he doesnt win it, im afraid he will end his career with 0 Slams.

I think Nadal will win USO this year again. Yes. Ill place a bet on him anyway, so it will be a win-win-situation.


Will have to wait and see until the end of the year to be sure what is what. However, Nadal did look rather subpeak at FO 2011, also Wim 2011 was rather sloppy regardless of Novak playing a great match.

So Nadal is still in prime, however he is not playing peak anymore. Perhaps that will change next year, but I am not sure Nadal has his head 100% in the game. He does not seem to be trying as hard, and seems he has other stuff on his mind.

ledwix
08-26-2011, 10:50 AM
Have you seen Nadal's draw? Who's gonna beat him,David Ferrer? :lol:

Nadal's a lock ATLEAST for the semis.
Besides,do you really think a mental midget like Murray is gonna beat Nadal?

People always forget that you have to actually BEAT Nadal. He doesn't just roll over and die.

Ferrer has not only beaten Nadal at the US Open before, but he has beaten Nadal in a slam this year in which he did "roll over." So it could obviously happen if Nadal was a little off. We'll have to see how the first few rounds at the Open go. He didn't look good at all in Montreal/Cincinnati.

TennezSport
08-26-2011, 11:05 AM
I didn't know that Babolat RPM Blast was Toni Nadal's doing! Where did you hear/read about that?

I got this directly from Babolat and it was repeated in a recent ESPN article. I don't think that RPMB was Unc Ts doing directly as Bab was already working on several new strings at the time including PHT Black. If you remember at the time Rafa was dropping a lot of balls short on the forehand side and Unc T felt that with Rafa getting older (and injured more often), he needed a more forgiving string with more power and spin (duralast was killing him imho). Rafa tested several versions of new string and finally settled on RPMB.

Cheers, TennezSport :cool:

CMM
08-26-2011, 11:44 AM
http://www.imgurl.ro/di-8AO4.gif

zagor
08-26-2011, 11:49 AM
Will have to wait and see until the end of the year to be sure what is what. However, Nadal did look rather subpeak at FO 2011, also Wim 2011 was rather sloppy regardless of Novak playing a great match.

So Nadal is still in prime, however he is not playing peak anymore. Perhaps that will change next year, but I am not sure Nadal has his head 100% in the game. He does not seem to be trying as hard, and seems he has other stuff on his mind.

So Nadal's not playing his best tennis at the age of 25 because:

-He looked subpeak at FO
-He looked sloppy at Wimbledon
-He isn't trying as hard
-His head isn't 100 in the game
-He has other stuff on his mind(like fishing maybe?)

Do these qualify as "observations" ? They're not excuses, right?

I'm also quite curious where do you see Nadal at the age of 30?

zagor
08-26-2011, 11:49 AM
http://www.imgurl.ro/di-8AO4.gif

So that's a no?

Clarky21
08-26-2011, 11:52 AM
http://www.imgurl.ro/di-8AO4.gif

He should give Roger a very expensive gift for allowing him to make out with that trophy this year. Lol.

CMM
08-26-2011, 11:59 AM
So that's a no?

Maybe. Maybe not. Things change very fast in tennis and trying to predict the future is stupid. I think last year no one would have predicted that Djokovic will lose only 2 matches until September.
Even if he is declining, that doesn't mean he won't be able to win important titles.

Magnetite
08-26-2011, 12:00 PM
We should give him at least another 6 months before deciding that he's declining as a tennis player.

He's played great tennis for most of the year, including the FO, and Wimbledon (I know the final was lackluster). He could lose in the first round of the USO, and still come back and win 3 out of 4 majors next year. He learned how to beat Federer, and it's thus, not inconceivable that he can figure out how to beat Djokovic.

I personally don't know if he's in decline or not, it's far too early to determine that.

We can all guess either way, and come back here a year later and do the "I told you so" routine, but at this point it's just a 50/50 bet.

beast of mallorca
08-26-2011, 12:02 PM
He should give Roger a very expensive gift for allowing him to make out with that trophy this year. Lol.

That should be 6 expensive gifts then for his entire career. Maybe 7 by the end of the US OPEN!!! :twisted::twisted::twisted:

Magnetite
08-26-2011, 12:05 PM
At this point we can only say that he's out of form, he needs some healing time, and/or he's in a mental funk.

All of which he can potentially heal from.

It's not like Federer, who has lost some foot speed and will never play tennis consistently, at the high level he did from 2006 - 2008 or so.

zagor
08-26-2011, 12:07 PM
Ha,ha,ha .....that picture alone made zagor's blood boil. I love that !
More pictures CMM :)

Not really, I was merely impertating the gif she posted as an answer to OP's question(as in "no" because he won a slam this year) but if thinking that makes you feel better feel free to do so.

PS. Certain Nadal fans always made my blood boil more than Nadal himself could ever dream of.

Maybe. Maybe not. Things change very fast in tennis and trying to predict the future is stupid. I think last year no one would have predicted that Djokovic will lose only 2 matches until September.
Even if he is declining, that doesn't mean he won't be able to win important titles.

Well said. Who would have thought Nadal would went on to dominate 2010 after the way he looked at 2nd half of 2009(especially WTF where he looked horrible and failed to win a single match) or that Novak would go on a tear this year after barely getting wins against top 10 players in 2010 and making more double faults than aces throghout that year.

What we do know is that Nadal has reached 2 slam finals this year and won one, for any standards that's already a great year. Who knows what will happen in 2012, whether Novak's level will drop or Nadal will figure him out, etc. It's very hard to predict.

cknobman
08-26-2011, 12:19 PM
The losses to Djokovic earlier this year have taken a toll on Nadal mentally.

Before that Nadal was in the zone where he was just going out an laying into people not over thinking things.

The losses to Djoker have Nadal tired and thinking too much on court reverting to more defensive tactics instead of offensive.

jackson vile
08-26-2011, 12:31 PM
The losses to Djokovic earlier this year have taken a toll on Nadal mentally.

Before that Nadal was in the zone where he was just going out an laying into people not over thinking things.

The losses to Djoker have Nadal tired and thinking too much on court reverting to more defensive tactics instead of offensive.

No, that is just icing on the cake. Nadal looked burnt out after USO, he pushed hard for the WTF and could not get it done.

That is why I am not sure if Novak is playing god tennis, or if Nadal and Federer being lazy SOBs? Regardless Novak deserves the credit.

chrischris
08-26-2011, 12:35 PM
Cakewalk draw at the Open may get his confidence back in time for the 2nd week... He is not down and out yet imo but he is a guy that could become a burnout ,no doubt.

Crisstti
08-26-2011, 12:37 PM
We will see! I think he could win the Open, but most like will not. He said on Letterman the other night that it was going to be very difficult, and if he doesn't believe that he can win, he will not.

But he always says that ;).

http://www.imgurl.ro/di-8AO4.gif

Awsome :)

TennisFan3
08-26-2011, 12:38 PM
So Nadal's not playing his best tennis at the age of 25..

I'm also quite curious where do you see Nadal at the age of 30?

Nadal's match win-loss record this year is 53-10 i.e 84%.

This is the WORST winning ratio he's EVER posted since 2004 (the year he didn't win a slam). So, his game apart, the results are going south.

Again, Nadal continuing till 30 is Science Fiction. He's himself asserted categorically that he won't be playing anywhere close to that, given how early he started. What happened this year with Djokovic might put Nadal closer to calling it a day. The timing of the autobiography may be indicative. What motivation is there to EVEN TRY to overcome a seemingly insurmountable challenge (as Djokovic's is) when Nadal has already achieved so much.

See at the end of the day - Nadal doesn't enjoy Tennis in the same way as Federer does. Fed loves traveling. He has a very supportive wife who goes with him everywhere. Nadal despises traveling. He is a homeboy who would rather stay at the beach or fish in Spain.

Nadal also works incredibly hard practicing, whereas Fed can generally take it easy. It's like a guy who I used to know during school. He was good enough to ace his classes and get a 4.0, but he wouldn't be satisfied until he put hours and hours studying.
For Fed, tennis is fun, but for Nadal it's a job.

Sure Nadal may be fine physically for a few more years. But it's the mental part and the motivation which is taking a dip. Sort of what happened to Borg.

Finally (despite Talk tennis where people constantly compare Fed to Nadal) I really doubt whether Nadal ever aimed or expected to get near Pete/Fed's slam total.
His career management has always been short term unlike Federer who always thought BIG and long term. I saw in interview from Fed in early 2005, and he said that he would adjust his schedule for the long term. He just didn't want to be a #1 and win a bunch of titles. He wanted to dominate tennis for several years and try to get as many slams as possible. So Fed was clear about his goals right from the start...

zagor
08-26-2011, 12:55 PM
You are such a drama queen LOL

http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa331/jacksonvile/****scrying.gif

Oh poor LOLville, has to resort to posting some lame gifs when he's backed in the corner by his own BS.

You're such a hypocrite. I look forward to further "observations" from you in the future.

Nadal's match win-loss record this year is 53-10 i.e 84%.

This is the WORST winning ratio he's EVER posted since 2004 (the year he didn't win a slam). So, his game apart, the results are going south.

Again, Nadal continuing till 30 is Science Fiction. He's himself asserted categorically that he won't be playing anywhere close to that, given how early he started. What happened this year with Djokovic might put Nadal closer to calling it a day. The timing of the autobiography may be indicative. What motivation is there to EVEN TRY to overcome a seemingly insurmountable challenge (as Djokovic's is) when Nadal has already achieved so much.

See at the end of the day - Nadal doesn't enjoy Tennis in the same way as Federer does. Fed loves traveling. He has a very supportive wife who goes with him everywhere. Nadal despises traveling. He is a homeboy who would rather stay at the beach or fish in Spain.

Nadal also works incredibly hard practicing, whereas Fed can generally take it easy. It's like a guy who I used to know during school. He was good enough to ace his classes and get a 4.0, but he wouldn't be satisfied until he put hours and hours studying.
For Fed, tennis is fun, but for Nadal it's a job.

Sure Nadal may be fine physically for a few more years. But it's the mental part and the motivation which is taking a dip. Sort of what happened to Borg.

Finally (despite Talk tennis where people constantly compare Fed to Nadal) I really doubt whether Nadal ever aimed or expected to get near Pete/Fed's slam total.
His career management has always been short term unlike Federer who always thought BIG and long term. I saw in interview from Fed in early 2005, and he said that he would adjust his schedule for the long term. He just didn't want to be a #1 and win a bunch of titles. He wanted to dominate tennis for several years and try to get as many slams as possible. So Fed was clear about his goals right from the start...

No offense but I already know your stance, I was asking LOLville those questions for specific reasons and predictably he has no response, I should probably give up this habit of trying to match wits with an unarmed man.

OddJack
08-26-2011, 01:07 PM
Considering his own comments, I think he is mentally tired.

.."It looks like I have been playing for 100 years"..

..." The mental part for me is very dangerous"... after W defeat.

He is older than 25 in tennis age. Consider the number of years he has been on tour.

Rodge made an interesting comment, he said Rafa, unlike others, was winning as a teenager, unlike others who come on tour and keep losing till they find their form. So he has been palying lots of matches with his fight to the bone mentality, thats not easy to keep up for a decade.

CCNM
08-26-2011, 01:34 PM
But he always says that ;).



Awsome :)

I don't believe anything that Rafa says when it comes to his game. He'll be "firing on all cylinders".

jbpick920
08-26-2011, 02:08 PM
I actually have a Djoker-Nadal final picked. Nadal has the easiest draw to the SF and I dont beleive he will see Murray there. So I cant help but think that he will make the final and then get beat when he gets intimidated by Djokovic(IF he makes it). With the weather and recent inconsistent play I think there could be some serious upsets on the way to the SF. Isner to the SF. Thats my darkhorse candidate. ha

Subventricular Zone
08-26-2011, 02:22 PM
Just out of form with a bit of mental fatigue.

He'll be back soon enough, perhaps next year.

Clarky21
08-26-2011, 02:33 PM
That should be 6 expensive gifts then for his entire career. Maybe 7 by the end of the US OPEN!!! :twisted::twisted::twisted:

No chance.

TheMagicianOfPrecision
08-26-2011, 02:39 PM
Ever heard of Bjorn Borg or Tracy Austin?

Hm...Bjorn Borg...Tracy Austin...Bjorn...Tracy...No sorry I am afraid I haven`t! Please enlighten me guru!

Subventricular Zone
08-26-2011, 02:58 PM
...The timing of the autobiography may be indicative....



Dude, the autobiography was probably planned a year ago or so. Do you really think that Nadal planned on releasing a book this year because he knew beforehand that he will already be in decline by 2011? He had just won three majors by then. Does not make sense at all.

JustBob
08-26-2011, 03:16 PM
Yes he's declining. Isn't that rather obvious?

Bud
08-26-2011, 03:24 PM
Or is he simply just out of form?

I personally dont think he is declining, how could he do that at 25? I know about his mileage and his brutal style of play etc etc, but still, really!?:shock:

I have counted him out many times already and I dont dare to do that ever again because usually he dissapoints me terribly by winning the title!

2011 USO there is so much at stake, so many questions will be answered.

IF Murray wins USO, If if if...then I think he will go on and win 3-5 GS in his career. If he doesnt win it, im afraid he will end his career with 0 Slams.

I think Nadal will win USO this year again. Yes. Ill place a bet on him anyway, so it will be a win-win-situation.

IMO, he's just losing interest in the sport and its showing on court. We'll see within the next 12 months if he's just experiencing a slump. It wouldn't surprise me to see Nadal retire within the next year.

He had such a stellar season in 2010, winning the career GS and double digit slam titles he may feel that there's little reason to carry on with all the practices and dedication.

Federer>Djokovic>Nadal
08-26-2011, 03:28 PM
Lol, Nadal is very shrewd when it coming when it comes to disclosing information. He says "very tough match, no?" before the first round at grand slams when you see people like Roddick saying "I'm already preparing for Roger at the final".

When he said he didn't have time this year to prepare for Djokovic was he misinforming us? Was that fishing/yacht/golf/post-Wimbledon-break just some cover up when he was really preparing for Djokovic? I mean he really doesn't have much to look forward to for the rest of the year besides the Open and he had all that time after Wimbledon, so I say he was practicing for Djokovic.

His losses at Montreal, Cincinnati don't tell much. He often plays subpar during those tournaments. And if he has some new weaopon he wouldnt want to use it right before the tournament but during it, like the serve last year.

However large the doubt is in my mind that these "conspiracy theories" are true, I am wishing they are not and Fed takes home the title.

Hood_Man
08-26-2011, 03:38 PM
IMO, he's just losing interest in the sport and its showing on court. We'll see within the next 12 months if he's just experiencing a slump. It wouldn't surprise me to see Nadal retire within the next year.

He had such a stellar season in 2010, winning the career GS and double digit slam titles he may feel that there's little reason to carry on with all the practices and dedication.

It wouldn't surprise me if he's losing interest either. He may only be 25 but he doesn't really have any goals left to conquer. Federer in his slump had that goal of surpassing Sampras to keep him going, and since doing so he's seemed a little bit less competitive. Similar to Rafa I think, since he won the US Open last year he's pretty much won everything apart from the WTF, but I can't see him wanting to carry on just for that.

Bud
08-26-2011, 03:39 PM
he's on a downhill slope
look at the match with Dodig

I disagree. His match with Dodig mirrored his matches in late 2009 when he was experiencing knee issues and family problems. He was irritable and distracted on court just like late 2009 and was unable to close out the match when he had the upper hand.

Nadal's attitude in 2011 is a sharp contrast to his 2010 attitude.

Clarky21
08-26-2011, 03:39 PM
Lol, Nadal is very shrewd when it coming when it comes to disclosing information. He says "very tough match, no?" before the first round at grand slams when you see people like Roddick saying "I'm already preparing for Roger at the final".

When he said he didn't have time this year to prepare for Djokovic was he misinforming us? Was that fishing/yacht/golf/post-Wimbledon-break just some cover up when he was really preparing for Djokovic? I mean he really doesn't have much to look forward to for the rest of the year besides the Open and he had all that time after Wimbledon, so I say he was practicing for Djokovic.

His losses at Montreal, Cincinnati don't tell much. He often plays subpar during those tournaments. And if he has some new weaopon he wouldnt want to use it right before the tournament but during it, like the serve last year.

However large the doubt is in my mind that these "conspiracy theories" are true, I am wishing they are not and Fed takes home the title.


You have a point,but I think this time it's different. He looks utterly miserable on court,and lacks the passion and fire he once had. It's not the same as before when even if he was losing he still showed some fight. Now,he just quits. He has burnout badly,and like Bud said,I too think he will be calling it quits within the next year or so as well.

NadalAgassi
08-26-2011, 03:51 PM
I dont think he is declining. I think he is just having a mini slump of sorts. He was doing pretty well this year until the last couple tournaments.

I think he needs a fresh start of sorts though. He needs to fire Toni and bring in a new coach who can get him excited about tennis again since he seems sluggish out there now.

Bud
08-26-2011, 04:18 PM
I dont think he is declining. I think he is just having a mini slump of sorts. He was doing pretty well this year until the last couple tournaments.

I think he needs a fresh start of sorts though. He needs to fire Toni and bring in a new coach who can get him excited about tennis again since he seems sluggish out there now.

I agree. Perhaps Uncle Toni as coach has run its course.

Outbeyond
08-26-2011, 04:28 PM
Nadal's record is what speaks to me. If he hadn't retired from the AO and hadn't won the French and hadn't made it to the Wimbledon final, I'd have thought...hmmm. Difficult year.

You know, it's seriously difficult getting to a Wimbledon final. It's seriously difficult getting to the final at the French.

Nadal is a man who has BEEN there for two of the three Big Ones in 2011. Tell me whom else, aside from Djoker, has accomplished this. Rafa's been there twice this year after having won three finals in a row LAST year! He's 25-yrs-old.

His only real current mental block is with Djoker.

Will Rafa make it to the US Open final? I do believe he will. Will he win? If Fed takes out Djoker, Nadal's chances are very good. If Djoker makes it to the final, Nadal still has a chance. He's been there...he's done that.

He can do it again.

MichaelNadal
08-26-2011, 05:10 PM
I agree. Perhaps Uncle Toni as coach has run its course.

He needs Jimmy Connors.

Clarky21
08-26-2011, 05:23 PM
He needs Jimmy Connors.

He's not Spanish enough.

Tammo
08-26-2011, 05:54 PM
Nadal is just mantally weak, if he knows he isn't the best player then he doesn't think he can win.

TennisFan3
08-26-2011, 06:36 PM
Perhaps Uncle Toni as coach has run its course.

It's not perhaps. It's certain. And this has been true for sometime. Even in 2010 when Nadal won 3 slams. Toni has admitted a long time ago that he has nothing to teach Nadal.

What kind of strategy has Toni given Nadal in the recent past? Does Toni analyze the videos of Nadal and his opponents to make subtle changes in his game? Does he prepare coherent strategies for Nadal? This is what a "paid" coach like Normal, Annacone, Lundgren, Stefanki, Cahill etc would do. What accountability does Toni have, given that he's more of an uncle rather than a coach? Toni is hardly even with Nadal all year. There has been ZERO improvement in the way Nadal has approached his matches with Djokovic despite repeated losses.

Overall, these days Nadal takes to the court with NO PLAN B. He just stand way behind the baseline and whales at the ball. If his baseline game is off, he has no game plan or strategy to turn things around. Hell, he used to be more aggressive and opportunistic when he was a teen. Again, does Nadal have a world class fitness coach like Fed's Pagnini (whose contribution to Fed's career cannot be overestimated) or Novak/Murray's fitness trainers..

The thing is Nadal should have opted for a world class coach, off court trainer etc a while ago. The real question is whether he has the guts to go against his basic tendencies and to shed his insecurity/anxiety and other strange psychological traits that inhibit him from being independent..

Netspirit
08-26-2011, 06:49 PM
I'm also quite curious where do you see Nadal at the age of 30?

I see him on tennis courts teaching kids and enjoying his retirement. A 30 years old Nadal playing on tour is just unimaginable.

It sounds funny, but Karlovic (who is now approaching 33) has more chances to play until his 40 than Nadal until 30.

big ted
08-26-2011, 07:02 PM
nadal has had a spectacular year aside from one particular opponent - novak. but almost literally NOBODY can beat novak either this year, so its not nadals fault..

Carsomyr
08-26-2011, 07:20 PM
He's been a pro for a long time. Yeah, he's only 25, but he's got a lot of mileage on those (comparatively) inefficient wheels. Whereas Federer has gotten slowly, gradually worse over the past couple of years, it's harder to predict what will happen to Nadal, whose style is much more physically demanding. Whatever is happening, I doubt it's just a slump a la 2009.

Postpre
08-26-2011, 07:40 PM
TennisFan3 wrote:

Overall, these days Nadal takes to the court with NO PLAN B. He just stand way behind the baseline and whales at the ball. If his baseline game is off, he has no game plan or strategy to turn things around. Hell, he used to be more aggressive and opportunistic when he was a teen. Again, does Nadal have a world class fitness coach like Fed's Pagnini (whose contribution to Fed's career cannot be overestimated) or Novak/Murray's fitness trainers..

You make it sound as if Rafa's camp is clueless at times. Read this article from last year:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703571704575340960041837420.html

Bud
08-26-2011, 08:12 PM
Nadal is just mantally weak, if he knows he isn't the best player then he doesn't think he can win.

Please stop posting ignorance :)

One who wins 10 slams is not mentally weak

cc0509
08-26-2011, 08:14 PM
Read the latest Tennis magazine and Chrissie's editorial. She attributes it to the 7 year itch commonly found in pro players.

I have not read it yet, but that is what I think it is. Nadal has been grinding it out on the tour for a LONG time now. I think he is seeing that there are other things in life besides tennis and I think he is showing signs of burn out.
Whether or not it is temporary is anybody's guess. He could decide to give his career one last big push and win as many slams as possible or not. All up to him and how much he still wants to sacrifice for tennis.

cc0509
08-26-2011, 08:16 PM
Not if Murray has his say.

No offense but Murray has a lot more to prove than Nadal at this stage of the game. Hopefully Murray can actually "do" rather than just talk about it for once.

Murrayfan31
08-26-2011, 08:18 PM
No offense but Murray has a lot more to prove than Nadal at this stage of the game. Hopefully Murray can actually "do" rather than just talk about it for once.
Murray won the last 2 times on hard court slams against Rafa. This is Murray's surface. He will win if they play in the Semis.

cc0509
08-26-2011, 08:27 PM
Murray won the last 2 times on hard court slams against Rafa. This is Murray's surface. He will win if they play in the Semis.

Murray may win, but with Nadal, even in his current less than perfect form and mental outlook one never knows. My point is that Murray has made slam finals but he has yet to win one. Nadal has won 10. Big difference. It may be Murray's time, we'll have to wait and see.

BobFL
08-26-2011, 08:43 PM
I don't think he is declining. I just think that we are seeing his true colors now when he is facing his personal and newly developed nemesis. I said it many times before and I 'll say it again: he is not mentally strong by any means let alone 'warrior' as many people in and around media call him. When I heard 'warrior' for the first time I loled. It doesn't take a body language expert to see it. Btw, it should't be seen as something bad because it's not. It is completely new situation for him and he is still confused and unsure about himself and his game. Another thing that is exposed is his inability to adapt, improvise and implement plan B. Actually, I personally never saw him as a player with plan B and that makes his accomplishments even more remarkable.

NLBwell
08-26-2011, 11:01 PM
Jim Courier won his last of 4 majors (2nd Australian title) at 22, had his last major final (Wimbledon) at 23, and won his last tournament at 27 years old.
Nadal's game is very physically and mentally taxing. I think what happens at the U.S. Open will give us an idea of where he will go from here.

namelessone
08-27-2011, 12:47 AM
I don't think he is declining. I just think that we are seeing his true colors now when he is facing his personal and newly developed nemesis. I said it many times before and I 'll say it again: he is not mentally strong by any means let alone 'warrior' as many people in and around media call him. When I heard 'warrior' for the first time I loled. It doesn't take a body language expert to see it. Btw, it should't be seen as something bad because it's not. It is completely new situation for him and he is still confused and unsure about himself and his game. Another thing that is exposed is his inability to adapt, improvise and implement plan B. Actually, I personally never saw him as a player with plan B and that makes his accomplishments even more remarkable.

Oh the ignorance.

Nadal is a "warrior" because he fought and won since he was a teen, even while having a underdeveloped game at the time. Not to mention standing up(on clay at least) to the guy who was murdering everyone else on tour. And fighting through several foot problems and other issues that caused him to miss a couple of slams. And coming back year after year to do try again to achieve his goals(see winning WB in 2008 after losing in 06' and 07' finals, winning AO 09 and USO 2010 after receiving some brutal beatings there in years past). If you don't think that takes a warrior like mentality, then I don't know what to tell you.

When a guy like Jimmy Connors says you remind him of himself when he was young, you know you are a warrior.

It's hilarious to say that Nadal shows "his true colours" now at 25, when he has been winning big since he was 19 years old.

Sentinel
08-27-2011, 03:09 AM
Nadal is just mantally weak, if he knows he isn't the best player then he doesn't think he can win.
You mean Rafa's not man enough ? !! You know that for shore ?

gregor.b
08-27-2011, 03:13 AM
Oh the ignorance.

Nadal is a "warrior" because he fought and won since he was a teen, even while having a underdeveloped game at the time. Not to mention standing up(on clay at least) to the guy who was murdering everyone else on tour. And fighting through several foot problems and other issues that caused him to miss a couple of slams. And coming back year after year to do try again to achieve his goals(see winning WB in 2008 after losing in 06' and 07' finals, winning AO 09 and USO 2010 after receiving some brutal beatings there in years past). If you don't think that takes a warrior like mentality, then I don't know what to tell you.

When a guy like Jimmy Connors says you remind him of himself when he was young, you know you are a warrior.

It's hilarious to say that Nadal shows "his true colours" now at 25, when he has been winning big since he was 19 years old.
6 years is a pretty good winning streak and it is not done yet I don't think.

mandy01
08-27-2011, 04:18 AM
He needs Jimmy Connors.Heh...I have to be amused at how similar these little 'suggestions' sound to those that were given to Roger starting 2008 :) And yet, Nadal has 'only' made 8 finals this year and only had poor performances in two events. :)

zagor
08-27-2011, 05:26 AM
Heh...I have to be amused at how similar these little 'suggestions' sound to those that were given to Roger starting 2008 :) And yet, Nadal has 'only' made 8 finals this year and only had poor performances in two events. :)

I love the contrast from Nadal fans though.

Mardy Fish pummels Fed in 2008- Fed is fine, he's as good as ever, the field is just catching up, players don't buy into his aura anymore, mono is fake(but Nadal's 12471687 injuries are all as severe as possible), Rafa improved so much in 2008 etc etc.

Mardy Fish beat Nadal this year- Nadal is dooooooomed, the writing is on the wall, he's gonna retire and we'll be left alone, he has MASSIVELY declined, where has Rafa gone? He might as well retire if he isn't gonna show any passion out there etc. etc.

zagor
08-27-2011, 05:32 AM
Oh the ignorance.

Nadal is a "warrior" because he fought and won since he was a teen, even while having a underdeveloped game at the time. Not to mention standing up(on clay at least) to the guy who was murdering everyone else on tour. And fighting through several foot problems and other issues that caused him to miss a couple of slams. And coming back year after year to do try again to achieve his goals(see winning WB in 2008 after losing in 06' and 07' finals, winning AO 09 and USO 2010 after receiving some brutal beatings there in years past). If you don't think that takes a warrior like mentality, then I don't know what to tell you.

When a guy like Jimmy Connors says you remind him of himself when he was young, you know you are a warrior.

It's hilarious to say that Nadal shows "his true colours" now at 25, when he has been winning big since he was 19 years old.

He was the only one standing up to Fed? LOL, he wasn't challenging Fed on clay, he was beating him senseless. Fed was an extremely easy match-up for Nadal.

Fact is before Novak 2.0 arrived Nadal had no rivals whatsoever which obviously enabled him to look tough all the time, now when his first real test of his career has arrived he doesn't seem to be handling it all that well.

In short, so far Nadal is 0-5 against his main rival, he needs to show a bit more fight in his future matches with peak Novak.

borg number one
08-27-2011, 05:35 AM
Rafael Nadal needs to recharge and get a "second wind" so to speak. He'll regain some of his ambition/motivation in my opinion, which will make a difference. He has played a lot and has a lot of mileage, but he's also more "mature" physically, more experienced and basically a much smarter player than in years past. I fully expect him to be challenging for majors until his late 20's and perhaps 30. I think that he and Djokovic will be 1&2 for the next couple of years at least and then we'll see after that. You could have Djokovic drop out of the top 5 after that and not the other way around. We shouldn't permanently extrapolate these things just based on 2011. How many times in his career has Nadal proven his naysayers wrong? I've lost count. Yet, Djokovic is presenting him with a new, big challenge and even Murray will be a challenger. I do think that Murray could win a major or two as well. If Murray does get one under his belt, he may gain newfound confidence that will serve him well at the majors.

CMM
08-27-2011, 05:40 AM
Fact is before Novak 2.0 arrived Nadal had no rivals whatsoever which obviously enabled him to look tough all the time, now when his first real test of his career has arrived he doesn't seem to be handling it all that well.

In short, so far Nadal is 0-5 against his main rival, he needs to show a bit more fight in his future matches with peak Novak.

No, his head to head with Novak Djokovic is 16-12, unless this Novak 2.0 is some other player.

zagor
08-27-2011, 05:42 AM
No, his head to head with Novak Djokovic is 16-12, unless this Novak 2.0 is some other player.

He definitely is, I thought Yoda already established that fact :confused:

Baby Djokovic is in no way comparable to peak Novak/Novak 2.0/The King/Nole Destroyer.

CMM
08-27-2011, 05:45 AM
He definitely is, I thought Yoda already established that fact :confused:

Baby Djokovic is in no way comparable to peak Novak/Novak 2.0/The King/Nole Destroyer.

http://www.imgurl.ro/di-T94N.gif

zagor
08-27-2011, 05:46 AM
How many times in his career has Nadal proven his naysayers wrong?

Problem is the biggest Nadal naysayers on this forums are a number of his fans who are acting like he's on the verge of retirement.

As far as I'm concerned, he reached 2 slam finals this year(winning one)and is arguably the 2nd favourite for USO title(barely behind Novak). I wouldn't be surprised the least to see Nadal hoisting USO trophy this year.

borg number one
08-27-2011, 05:57 AM
Problem is the biggest Nadal naysayers on this forums are a number of his fans who are acting like he's on the verge of retirement.

As far as I'm concerned, he reached 2 slam finals this year(winning one)and is arguably the 2nd favourite for USO title(barely behind Novak). I wouldn't be surprised the least to see Nadal hoisting USO trophy this year.

True. To be fair going 0-5 versus a big rival is a real issue, especially dropping a Wimbledon final to a player that had not made a Wimbledon final before. I thought Nadal would take that "big prize". Yet, I completely agree with you. It wouldn't surprise me at all either zagor if Nadal took the U.S. Open title. Not one bit. If Nadal makes it 1-5 versus Djokovic after the U.S. Open, we could him changing the dynamics of that rivalry very quickly.

Sentinel
08-27-2011, 08:21 AM
Yes, Nadal is REALLY declining marriage this year.

winstonplum
08-27-2011, 10:43 AM
Yes, in a word, he is declining, and quite rapidly.

Crisstti
08-27-2011, 11:46 AM
Dude, the autobiography was probably planned a year ago or so. Do you really think that Nadal planned on releasing a book this year because he knew beforehand that he will already be in decline by 2011? He had just won three majors by then. Does not make sense at all.

Yes, this. A lot of people don’t seem to notice that because the book was released now doesn’t mean that they haven’t been working in it for a while…

IMO, he's just losing interest in the sport and its showing on court. We'll see within the next 12 months if he's just experiencing a slump. It wouldn't surprise me to see Nadal retire within the next year.

He had such a stellar season in 2010, winning the career GS and double digit slam titles he may feel that there's little reason to carry on with all the practices and dedication.

Yeah, I’m afraid that might be the case (just might…). I hope it isn’t. We’ll see. I think being that he’s said how depressed he was when his career was nearly over in 2005, maybe that makes him appreciate more the fact that he’s able to play…
Wonder how much he thinks/cares about catching Roger in slams.

celoft
08-27-2011, 11:52 AM
Wonder how much he thinks/cares about catching Roger in slams.

He already said that he is "very far" and six is "a lot".


http://www.cbc.ca/sports/moresports/story/2011/06/19/sp-nadal-wimbledon.html

Best case scenario for him would be 12 slams. He will never catch Roger's 16...

Outbeyond
08-27-2011, 12:04 PM
He already said that he is "very far" and six is "a lot".


http://www.cbc.ca/sports/moresports/story/2011/06/19/sp-nadal-wimbledon.html

Best case scenario for him would be 12 slams. He will never catch Roger's 16...

:)Don't be so sure.

I do love Rodge, so I say that with a smile. But Rafa's not one to discount at his age. Remember what everyone was saying about his career at the end of his disastrous 2009? Washed up, an absolute pidgeon to Soderling, a piece of cake for the mean and newly clean Davydenko...

Yeah, right. 2010 stunned everyone into silence.

Nadal's been stunned in 2011 by Djoker. Fed, in his wisdom, pointed out that Rafa's never experienced this kind of domination and is doubtless struggling as a result.

But Nadal struggled in 2009. Did he look bad after that? Logic tells me it's all about phases...

Clarky21
08-27-2011, 12:09 PM
^^Yeah,but he is not getting any younger,and already at only 25 he has declined a lot mentally a physically. He would need the entire ATP to be swallowed up by a sinkhole in order to even reach Pete's 14 slams much less Federer's 16. In short,it ain't happenin'

kishnabe
08-27-2011, 12:10 PM
Nadal isn't declining...he is playing better than in second half of 2009 and 2010( I know he won three majors...but 2010 French Open was pathetic, 2010 WImbledon had a good second week from Nadal, and US open final was the best of Nadal) They weren't conssitent good quality from Nadal like 06-08.
2008 was his best....and he will reach it again someday. 2011 he played so good except for IW Final 2nd set, Miami Final 2nd Set, Queens(Obvious Tank), Montreal and Cincnatti. Even though I hate Nadal...I know that he is far from done.

Djokovic did beat him Nadal at his best(Rome,Madrid and Wimbledon were the best wins with Nadal not failing with his serve). Though there were times when Nadal's concentration went awy. He is still playing a consistent week to week prime level.

The problem with Nadal I think is his movement isn't as sharp as before...his 2 hander isn't flowing like in 2009 Aussie. His forehand dtl is missing or misfiring. I believe the injury from 2010 Australian open may have healed but might have a permanent scar in his body.

Nadal will be back dominating soon enough but with Djoker, Murray and Federer( small periods of time) fighting to dominate as well. I will be sick of Nadal winning....but I never gonna doubt the guy.

They guy is 25 played many goods years of tennis. He has many more years. Not all good years of tennis is going to make him dominate. Federer is having a good year but he hasn't won something signficant but he did post good results.

It funny how some Nadatards and Fans are worried. ******* and Nadhater myself am Optimistic of Federer and even Nadal right now.


Just enjoy the ride of Djokovic....and be optimistic that Nadal can win it.....You never know these two weeks can be the same old story of Djokovic winning this year or someone else taking the spotlight.

I hope Fedray takes it this year!

Outbeyond
08-27-2011, 12:13 PM
^^Yeah,but he is not getting any younger,and already at only 25 he has declined a lot mentally a physically. He would need the entire ATP to be swallowed up by a sinkhole in order to even reach Pete's 14 slams much less Federer's 16. In short,it ain't happenin'

LOL....yeah, Nadal's not getting any younger, and yet his age gives him more chances.

You think Fed has none at 30? I wouldn't rule out Fed yet, either.

But you go ahead and rule them all out. Djoker, who's 24, apparently won't have any chances to get a few more GS trophies in 2012 using your logic. He'll be too old.:twisted:

Crisstti
08-27-2011, 12:52 PM
Nadal's record is what speaks to me. If he hadn't retired from the AO and hadn't won the French and hadn't made it to the Wimbledon final, I'd have thought...hmmm. Difficult year.

You know, it's seriously difficult getting to a Wimbledon final. It's seriously difficult getting to the final at the French.

Nadal is a man who has BEEN there for two of the three Big Ones in 2011. Tell me whom else, aside from Djoker, has accomplished this. Rafa's been there twice this year after having won three finals in a row LAST year! He's 25-yrs-old.

His only real current mental block is with Djoker.

Will Rafa make it to the US Open final? I do believe he will. Will he win? If Fed takes out Djoker, Nadal's chances are very good. If Djoker makes it to the final, Nadal still has a chance. He's been there...he's done that.

He can do it again.

I like your attitude. I think you’re right :)

Oh the ignorance.

Nadal is a "warrior" because he fought and won since he was a teen, even while having a underdeveloped game at the time. Not to mention standing up(on clay at least) to the guy who was murdering everyone else on tour. And fighting through several foot problems and other issues that caused him to miss a couple of slams. And coming back year after year to do try again to achieve his goals(see winning WB in 2008 after losing in 06' and 07' finals, winning AO 09 and USO 2010 after receiving some brutal beatings there in years past). If you don't think that takes a warrior like mentality, then I don't know what to tell you.

When a guy like Jimmy Connors says you remind him of himself when he was young, you know you are a warrior.

It's hilarious to say that Nadal shows "his true colours" now at 25, when he has been winning big since he was 19 years old.

Quoted for truth. It couldn’t be more absurd to say that he’s “showing his true colors” after having was 10 slams.

Clarky21
08-27-2011, 01:45 PM
LOL....yeah, Nadal's not getting any younger, and yet his age gives him more chances.

You think Fed has none at 30? I wouldn't rule out Fed yet, either.

But you go ahead and rule them all out. Djoker, who's 24, apparently won't have any chances to get a few more GS trophies in 2012 using your logic. He'll be too old.:twisted:



Not the same and you know it. Nadal has a lot more mileage on his body than Djokovic does,yet he is only 11 months older. Novak will be able to keep winning slams for years to come because of it,and I'd bet next year he will complete his career slam by winning RG. His name is practically engraved already.

As for Federer,again,it's not the same. He is older than Nadal,but his style is not as gruelling or grinding as Nadal's which is why he has been able to carry on for so long. Nadal will not be playing at 30 I can guarantee you that,and will probably be retired by the time he is 26-27.

Outbeyond
08-27-2011, 01:52 PM
Not the same and you know it. Nadal has a lot more mileage on his body than Djokovic does,yet he is only 11 months older. Novak will be able to keep winning slams for years to come because of it,and I'd bet next year he will complete his career slam by winning RG. His name is practically engraved already.

As for Federer,again,it's not the same. He is older than Nadal,but his style is not as gruelling or grinding as Nadal's which is why he has been able to carry on for so long. Nadal will not be playing at 30 I can guarantee you that,and will probably be retired by the time he is 26-27.

You're the one who should know better, dear Clarky...

"Nadal has a lot more mileage on his body." What does that mean? Everyone keeps talking about Nadal's body as if it were a thing opposed to his will.. Oh, you all say, his style is killing him, his grueling, grinding method of play is doing him in!"....Oh yeah?

Hmm. How come he won three Slams in a row last year? How come he won one slam this year and was in the final of another? How come you keep writing about him? :twisted:

You like to write off him early because you fear him. No prob. I understand.:)

Clarky21
08-27-2011, 02:09 PM
You're the one who should know better, dear Clarky...

"Nadal has a lot more mileage on his body." What does that mean? Everyone keeps talking about Nadal's body as if it were a thing opposed to his will.. Oh, you all say, his style is killing him, his grueling, grinding method of play is doing him in!"....Oh yeah?

Hmm. How come he won three Slams in a row last year? How come he won one slam this year and was in the final of another? How come you keep writing about him? :twisted:

You like to write off him early because you fear him. No prob. I understand.:)

Lol,I fear him? Not hardly,just like Dodig didn't either right? How about Paolo Lorenzi or Mardy Fish? He's lost his aura,too so I doubt anyone worries too much when they draw Nadal these days.

Last year was last year,and a year is a lot of time in tennis. Obviously since he has declined so badly in that amount of time.

And whether or not you want to believe it,Nadal's style of play has put a lot of wear and tear on his body,and will shorten his career. Mileage means a lot as well. He has played a gruelling style of tennis for years and years,and has a lot more matches under his belt than Djokovic,or Murray for that matter. More matches with that style means less longevity. He is also extremely injury prone,and seems to have lost his fire and passion for the game. That alone is a career killer. Just ask Bjorn Borg. And sheer will can only take you so far. He still has to have footspeed,reflexes,explosiveness and so on in order to do well. He is losing those things rapidly. This year is only the beginning.

Outbeyond
08-27-2011, 02:51 PM
Lol,I fear him? Not hardly,just like Dodig didn't either right? How about Paolo Lorenzi or Mardy Fish? He's lost his aura,too so I doubt anyone worries too much when they draw Nadal these days.

Last year was last year,and a year is a lot of time in tennis. Obviously since he has declined so badly in that amount of time.

And whether or not you want to believe it,Nadal's style of play has put a lot of wear and tear on his body,and will shorten his career. Mileage means a lot as well. He has played a gruelling style of tennis for years and years,and has a lot more matches under his belt than Djokovic,or Murray for that matter. More matches with that style means less longevity. He is also extremely injury prone,and seems to have lost his fire and passion for the game. That alone is a career killer. Just ask Bjorn Borg. And sheer will can only take you so far. He still has to have footspeed,reflexes,explosiveness and so on in order to do well. He is losing those things rapidly. This year is only the beginning.


LOL!! Pablum. To me, your arguments sound like some sort of Tea Party mantra....:twisted:

But by all means keep writing them. They make me chuckle.

Clarky21
08-27-2011, 03:14 PM
LOL!! Pablum. To me, your arguments sound like some sort of Tea Party mantra....:twisted:

But by all means keep writing them. They make me chuckle.

I'll keep writing them as long as there are people who have delusions about what Nadal has left. And you still did not rebut anything I said. If I am as wrong as you say I am,how come you don't have any arguments against what I posted? I am not the only one who sees it this way,either. How come no snide remarks for those people too?

Oh,and The Tea Party sucks. Maybe disliking them is one thing we do have in common.

Outbeyond
08-27-2011, 03:21 PM
"He has played a gruelling style of tennis for years and years,and has a lot more matches under his belt than Djokovic,or Murray for that matter. More matches with that style means less longevity. He is also extremely injury prone,and seems to have lost his fire and passion for the game. That alone is a career killer."

These are your words, Clarky.

In the meantime, Nadal's won the French and gotten into the Wimbledon final. Are you fearful he'll somehow make it into the US Open final?

I've no consolation for you. His patterns are: three GS finals in 2010. Two GS finals in 2011 thus far. He could make it 3 finals in 2011.

I'm sorry this causes you concern. :)

Crisstti
08-27-2011, 03:22 PM
Not the same and you know it. Nadal has a lot more mileage on his body than Djokovic does,yet he is only 11 months older. Novak will be able to keep winning slams for years to come because of it,and I'd bet next year he will complete his career slam by winning RG. His name is practically engraved already.

As for Federer,again,it's not the same. He is older than Nadal,but his style is not as gruelling or grinding as Nadal's which is why he has been able to carry on for so long. Nadal will not be playing at 30 I can guarantee you that,and will probably be retired by the time he is 26-27.

Nadal's is not a car. Mileage is not much else than some interesting data. It's his interest and passion for the game and his health the factors that will determine when he retires.

I'll keep writing them as long as there are people who have delusions about what Nadal has left. And you still did not rebut anything I said. If I am as wrong as you say I am,how come you don't have any arguments against what I posted? I am not the only one who sees it this way,either. How come no snide remarks for those people too?

Oh,and The Tea Party sucks. Maybe disliking them is one thing we do have in common.

Sorry Clarky, but what's to rebute?. You're just speculating.

Clarky21
08-27-2011, 03:23 PM
Nadal's is not a car. Mileage is not much else than some interesting data. It's his interest and passion for the game and his health the factors that will determine when he retires.



Sorry Clarky, but what's to rebute?. You're just speculating.


So is Outbeyond.

Crisstti
08-27-2011, 03:25 PM
So is Outbeyond.

He/she's not speaking about it as if it were fact, though.

But what's to rebute about you saying "he will retire when he's 26/27"?. He might, he might not. We'll see.

JustBob
08-27-2011, 03:26 PM
The prime of a tennis player lasts 5-6 years (and tennis has never been this physical as a sport).

Nadal started winning early and is already near the end of said prime.

Nadal's brutal style of play takes it's toll, both mentally and physically.

He might only be 25, but he's a lot older than that in "tennis years".

A decline can occur slowly over a period of years or the descent can be sudden and severe.

Federer would be an example of the former because of his style of play. I expect Nadal's decline to be quick and brutal.

Crisstti
08-27-2011, 03:28 PM
It's not a mathematical thing (I'm sure I don't really need to say that, but well...).

And it could be argued taht his prime started in 2007/2008.

JustBob
08-27-2011, 03:30 PM
No, Nadal's prime years started in 2005/2006.

pound cat
08-27-2011, 03:39 PM
Nadal was introduced to tennis ar age 3 and his life has revolved around tennis since then. Yikes!

Maybe it's his interest in the sport that's declining...or maybe not and we will see brilliance again at USO

No one knows what is going on in his head...it's all a mystery. Meanwhile, the speculation continues.

JustBob
08-27-2011, 03:44 PM
Hey, I hope I'm wrong and this only a "slump" but I doubt it. I'm first and foremost a tennis fan and while I prefer Fed's style of play, there are a lot of things I admire in Rafa and I don't dislike him at all.

Crisstti
08-27-2011, 03:47 PM
Nadal about playing in his 30's (for what it's worth ;)). Especially at around 2:10.

Very interesting interview...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=vwg50IjEHPs

(BTW, the interview is from 2009, so a low moment in his career no doubt)

TennisFan3
08-27-2011, 03:52 PM
Hey, I hope I'm wrong and this only a "slump" but I doubt it. I'm first and foremost a tennis fan and while I prefer Fed's style of play, there are a lot of things I admire in Rafa and I don't dislike him at all.

True.

Again decline or not, technically, also it's very hard for Nadal to beat Djoko at this level unless Nadal makes some "significant" changes to his game. It's purely because of the matchup bcoz things become easy for Djoko against Nadal. It's no coincidence that Belluci, Ferrer, Murray, Fed etc gave a bigger fight to Novak than Nadal did on clay. By the same token - Tsonga, Bagdhatis, Tomic etc gave a bigger fight to Djoko on grass than Nadal did.

Overall, the problem is that Nadal's body is wearing down (his foot problem has resurfaced again) and I doubt he has enough motivation to push himself as relentlessly as he used to before, to even begin trying to solve the Djoko puzzle. I don't believe that Nadal also wants to change his coaching team at this stage of his career, which is probably something he needs to do. It's exactly like Fed vs Nadal, too little too late..

Outbeyond
08-27-2011, 03:52 PM
At 25, Nadal is too young for anyone to speculate upon his limits....I mean, go ahead and speculate! But don't be surprised if your arguments turn out to be wrong.:twisted:

TennisFan3
08-27-2011, 03:55 PM
Nadal about playing in his 30's (for what it's worth ;)). Especially at around 2:10.

Very interesting interview...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=vwg50IjEHPs

(BTW, the interview is from 2009, so a low moment in his career no doubt)

Thanks for posting this.

Nadal said if he doesn't have chances to win important tournament, he's gonna call it quits.

Which is why I think the summer of 2012 will be crucial. If he doesn't get F.O or Wimb in 2012 - meaning he remains slamless through the year - I think he won't hang around to long. That said, he does have a good shot at Wimb 2012, because grass is where his game has declined the least..

Outbeyond
08-27-2011, 03:56 PM
Thanks for posting this.

Nadal said if he doesn't have chances to win important tournament, he's gonna call it quits.

Which is why I think the summer of 2012 will be crucial. If he doesn't get F.O or Wimb in 2012 - meaning he remains slamless through the year - I think he won't hang around to long..

lol.........

Crisstti
08-27-2011, 04:16 PM
True.

Again decline or not, technically, also it's very hard for Nadal to beat Djoko at this level unless Nadal makes some "significant" changes to his game. It's purely because of the matchup bcoz things become easy for Djoko against Nadal. It's no coincidence that Belluci, Ferrer, Murray, Fed etc gave a bigger fight to Novak than Nadal did on clay. By the same token - Tsonga, Bagdhatis, Tomic etc gave a bigger fight to Djoko on grass than Nadal did.

Overall, the problem is that Nadal's body is wearing down (his foot problem has resurfaced again) and I doubt he has enough motivation to push himself as relentlessly as he used to before, to even begin trying to solve the Djoko puzzle. I don't believe that Nadal also wants to change his coaching team at this stage of his career, which is probably something he needs to do. It's exactly like Fed vs Nadal, too little too late..

You've said that several times... where do you get that from?.

I don't really think Nadal needs to make significant changes to beat Djokovic. He nearly beat him in IW and Miami. He just needs to play his game better, like he did then, but without letting his serve go away like that (though some changes wouldn't hurt, sure).

Thanks for posting this.

Nadal said if he doesn't have chances to win important tournament, he's gonna call it quits.

Which is why I think the summer of 2012 will be crucial. If he doesn't get F.O or Wimb in 2012 - meaning he remains slamless through the year - I think he won't hang around to long. That said, he does have a good shot at Wimb 2012, because grass is where his game has declined the least..

He did say that if he doesn't have chances to win important tournaments at 30 he would probably retire, 'cause 15 years in the tour seems a lot.

I think the word "chances" it's important here. Especially since he often talks about how important it is for him to "be competitive".

cc0509
08-27-2011, 08:22 PM
The prime of a tennis player lasts 5-6 years (and tennis has never been this physical as a sport).

Nadal started winning early and is already near the end of said prime.

Nadal's brutal style of play takes it's toll, both mentally and physically.

He might only be 25, but he's a lot older than that in "tennis years".

A decline can occur slowly over a period of years or the descent can be sudden and severe.

Federer would be an example of the former because of his style of play. I expect Nadal's decline to be quick and brutal.

I agree. I really can't understand how people can't see this as it is plain as day. Logic dictates that if a player is winning and bursts onto the tennis scene from a younger age, that that same player will accumulate more mileage and wear and tear at a younger age. This does not even speak of the mental fatigue that occurs as well from years of being on the tour and playing a grinding style of tennis. Comparing Nadal to somebody like Federer is ridiculous as their careers took very different paths agewise, stylewise, you name it. It is like comparing a Jeep to a Mercedes.

This does not mean that Nadal is finished or he won't win any more slams. Nobody knows what is going to happen with Nadal except maybe Nadal himself so we will have to see. He may still want to fight and he may come out victorious and win 7 more slams, or he may not. Depends on a lot of different factors, some within Nadal's control and some not.

cc0509
08-27-2011, 08:32 PM
No, Nadal's prime years started in 2005/2006.

Yep. I would say Nadal's prime started in 2006 and he is now just "slightly" past his prime.

DjokovicForTheWin
08-27-2011, 08:41 PM
My opinion is that Nadal is still at his peak. Other's have an opposing opinion. However, the actual data support my opinion.

cc0509
08-27-2011, 08:42 PM
My opinion is that Nadal is still at his peak. Other's have an opposing opinion. However, the actual data support my opinion.

Really? No kidding! How would we ever know that this is your opinion! :twisted:

Are you sure? :lol:

NadalAgassi
08-27-2011, 08:56 PM
I dont think Nadal is past his prime. I actually think he was playing very well this year until after Wimbledon. His summer tennis has been really sh1tty though. Maybe he has lost his confidence after all the losses to Djokovic in finals, I am not sure. I think it just a mini slump and he will come out of it at some point.

I dont agree his prime started in 2006. He was still mediocre on hard courts, and getting owned by second rate players like Blake, Berdych, Youzhny, Gonzalez, completely on non clay surfaces, losing virtually every match. Even on grass he lost to some clown German who wasnt even in the top 100 at Queens that year, and should have lost to career challenger circuit player Robert Kendrick in straight sets at Wimbledon but Kendrick choked. His hard court slam results were all poor, ranging from 3rd rounds to quarterfinals tops. Prime Nadal started in 2008 IMO. That is when he became much harder to beat on all surfaces, even hard courts, and was regularly a semifinalist (or at worst occasionally a quarterfinals) at hard court slams. That is also when he began owning the Berdych, Youzhny, Blake type players for good. Remember Berdych is better now than he was back then and he still cant touch Nadal on any surface now.

Pwned
08-27-2011, 08:58 PM
Doubt he declining in a physical sense. But he definitely has played better. His BH goes way off sometimes. Not like Federer's with mishits. But the complete lack of confidence and resorting to a complete spin/push shot. But his BH sucked before the USO last year and look what happened.

MichaelNadal
08-28-2011, 02:17 AM
I dont think Nadal is past his prime. I actually think he was playing very well this year until after Wimbledon. His summer tennis has been really sh1tty though. Maybe he has lost his confidence after all the losses to Djokovic in finals, I am not sure. I think it just a mini slump and he will come out of it at some point.

I dont agree his prime started in 2006. He was still mediocre on hard courts, and getting owned by second rate players like Blake, Berdych, Youzhny, Gonzalez, completely on non clay surfaces, losing virtually every match. Even on grass he lost to some clown German who wasnt even in the top 100 at Queens that year, and should have lost to career challenger circuit player Robert Kendrick in straight sets at Wimbledon but Kendrick choked. His hard court slam results were all poor, ranging from 3rd rounds to quarterfinals tops. Prime Nadal started in 2008 IMO. That is when he became much harder to beat on all surfaces, even hard courts, and was regularly a semifinalist (or at worst occasionally a quarterfinals) at hard court slams. That is also when he began owning the Berdych, Youzhny, Blake type players for good. Remember Berdych is better now than he was back then and he still cant touch Nadal on any surface now.

Well I think his prime started in 2005 and he is STILL in it. PEAK however.... again, PEAK was 2008.

jackson vile
08-28-2011, 06:27 AM
****s = denial

**** = realists

Nadal will have to do something drastic next year, like he has in previous years, if he is still to continue. Not saying that he can't do it, however the likely hood is rather low at this point in time. He does not look like he has the motivation, focus, energy, etc like he did at his peak and that is rather obvious.

DjokovicForTheWin
08-28-2011, 09:19 AM
Note that if you somehow FEEL that Nadal is not at his peak anymore, the data do not support your feelings. If you are ok with that, then so be it. Let's face it, a lot of people are ok going through life without actual facts and reproducibility of phenomena. My god is better than your god.

Outbeyond
08-28-2011, 09:36 AM
Note that if you somehow FEEL that Nadal is not at his peak anymore, the data do not support your feelings. If you are ok with that, then so be it. Let's face it, a lot of people are ok going through life without actual facts and reproducibility of phenomena. My god is better than your god.

...and reproducibility of phenomena...

lol....

Crisstti
08-28-2011, 09:44 AM
I agree. I really can't understand how people can't see this as it is plain as day. Logic dictates that if a player is winning and bursts onto the tennis scene from a younger age, that that same player will accumulate more mileage and wear and tear at a younger age. This does not even speak of the mental fatigue that occurs as well from years of being on the tour and playing a grinding style of tennis. Comparing Nadal to somebody like Federer is ridiculous as their careers took very different paths agewise, stylewise, you name it. It is like comparing a Jeep to a Mercedes.

This does not mean that Nadal is finished or he won't win any more slams. Nobody knows what is going to happen with Nadal except maybe Nadal himself so we will have to see. He may still want to fight and he may come out victorious and win 7 more slams, or he may not. Depends on a lot of different factors, some within Nadal's control and some not.

So after all you're saying that the mileage thing is not really important...

I dont agree his prime started in 2006. He was still mediocre on hard courts, and getting owned by second rate players like Blake, Berdych, Youzhny, Gonzalez, completely on non clay surfaces, losing virtually every match. Even on grass he lost to some clown German who wasnt even in the top 100 at Queens that year, and should have lost to career challenger circuit player Robert Kendrick in straight sets at Wimbledon but Kendrick choked. His hard court slam results were all poor, ranging from 3rd rounds to quarterfinals tops. Prime Nadal started in 2008 IMO. That is when he became much harder to beat on all surfaces, even hard courts, and was regularly a semifinalist (or at worst occasionally a quarterfinals) at hard court slams. That is also when he began owning the Berdych, Youzhny, Blake type players for good. Remember Berdych is better now than he was back then and he still cant touch Nadal on any surface now.

This. How some people don't see that, I don'r know... maybe Federer fans are looking too much at Rafa's results against Fed on HC in 2004-2006.

From his performance in Wimbledon in 2007 though, I'd say he was playing at that high level on non-clay surfaces then already.

veroniquem
08-28-2011, 10:14 AM
It's too early to tell. I'm waiting to see the kind of form he shows at USO. I think if the rest of his season on hard court doesn't go well, he would still have a shot at coming back strong for the 2012 clay season.
And Djoko will have a dip in form in 2012 after the phenomenal 2011 he's having.

Clarky21
08-28-2011, 10:22 AM
It's too early to tell. I'm waiting to see the kind of form he shows at USO. I think if the rest of his season on hard court doesn't go well, he would still have a shot at coming back strong for the 2012 clay season.
And Djoko will have a dip in form in 2012 after the phenomenal 2011 he's having.

I wouldn't count on that.

veroniquem
08-28-2011, 10:42 AM
Really? It's very likely though. It's too hard to have 2 seasons back to back almost without losing any matches.

tennis_fan_182
08-28-2011, 10:52 AM
Yeh, Nadal is probably declining.

I'd still bet my house that even his declined state is enough to make the final of every single grand slam for the next 5-10 years or whenever he decides to retire.

Who the hell is gonna stop him? Being no. 2 he will be drawn opposite Djokovic every time - so he's guaranteed not to get beaten until the final.

veroniquem
08-28-2011, 10:56 AM
Do you mean in slams? I think the whole discussion stemmed from Rafa just losing to Dodig and Fish. Is it a temporary dip or something more endemic? That's what people are wondering and I'm saying it's too early for categoric answers.

Clarky21
08-28-2011, 10:58 AM
Really? It's very likely though. It's too hard to have 2 seasons back to back almost without losing any matches.

Federer was able to string a few seasons together where he didn't lose many matches. With there being nobody around to challenge Djokovic,I don't see why he can't do the same.

TheMagicianOfPrecision
08-28-2011, 11:02 AM
Federer was able to string a few seasons together where he didn't lose many matches. With there being nobody around to challenge Djokovic,I don't see why he can't do the same.

I dont agree, imo, Federer was so much better than eveyone else SHOTWISE, Djokovic isnt that, he is so much better PHYSICALLY and DEFENSIVELY. Therefore i think the pack will catch up to him faster than they did with Federer.

Federer revolutionized the game, IMO Djokovic has not done that.

veroniquem
08-28-2011, 11:05 AM
Federer was able to string a few seasons together where he didn't lose many matches. With there being nobody around to challenge Djokovic,I don't see why he can't do the same.



Fed lost 5 matches in 2006, his best season and still more losses than Djoko SO FAR. His 2007 was a bit less successful, not in slams but in masters for sure. (He lost early at both IW and Miami.) + there is still no indication whether Djoko could have the same consistency on the long term as Fed. Djoko is already 24 and this is his first brilliant season.

tennis_fan_182
08-28-2011, 11:47 AM
Do you mean in slams? I think the whole discussion stemmed from Rafa just losing to Dodig and Fish. Is it a temporary dip or something more endemic? That's what people are wondering and I'm saying it's too early for categoric answers.

Nah, Nadal will be back and you'll soon see that for the next 5-10 years (whenever either of them decide to retire) that Nadal and Djokovic might as well be the only 2 tennis players in the universe.

I am absolutely adamant that every single slam over a 5-10 year period will be won by either Djokovic or Nadal. And at every single slam during that period we will have a Djokovic/Nadal final.

veroniquem
08-28-2011, 12:02 PM
Nah, Nadal will be back and you'll soon see that for the next 5-10 years (whenever either of them decide to retire) that Nadal and Djokovic might as well be the only 2 tennis players in the universe.

I am absolutely adamant that every single slam over a 5-10 year period will be won by either Djokovic or Nadal. And at every single slam during that period we will have a Djokovic/Nadal final.




I don't have a crystal ball available (sorry) but I have a strong suspicion you're dead wrong. Even in 2011, not all finals were Djoko-Nadal. Actually in slams only 1 was Djoko-Nadal.

JustBob
08-28-2011, 12:07 PM
Nah, Nadal will be back and you'll soon see that for the next 5-10 years (whenever either of them decide to retire) that Nadal and Djokovic might as well be the only 2 tennis players in the universe.

I am absolutely adamant that every single slam over a 5-10 year period will be won by either Djokovic or Nadal. And at every single slam during that period we will have a Djokovic/Nadal final.

You need to read this:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_RQjQvxtmK8A/TQJYAuFn1aI/AAAAAAAADaQ/tWxiXSr3Jq8/s1600/trolling-for-dummies.png

Polaris
08-28-2011, 12:42 PM
I am absolutely adamant that every single slam over a 5-10 year period will be won by either Djokovic or Nadal. And at every single slam during that period we will have a Djokovic/Nadal final.

This almost puts "My sweet Nadla will win 47 Slams" to shame. Good going!

I'd still bet my house that even his declined state is enough to make the final of every single grand slam for the next 5-10 years or whenever he decides to retire.

Is this your way of running away from a subprime mortgage ? :)

celoft
08-28-2011, 12:56 PM
I wouldn't count on that.

You think Nole will only have 2 losses by August? Good luck with that. People compare Nole's 2011 season with JMac's 1984... Well, look at JMac's 1985 season. :shock: And since Nole is already in his mid-twenties like JMac was in the mid-1980s, well MOTWYW...

Clarky21
08-28-2011, 01:28 PM
You think Nole will only have 2 losses by August? Good luck with that. People compare Nole's 2011 season with JMac's 1984... Well, look at JMac's 1985 season. :shock: And since Nole is already in his mid-twenties like JMac was in the mid-1980s, well MOTWYW...

You never know. There is no competition for him.

veroniquem
08-28-2011, 01:44 PM
You never know. There is no competition for him.



Really? And yet Murray just beat him and Fed beat him at RG. Novak is not unbeatable. Nobody is.

Clarky21
08-28-2011, 06:10 PM
Really? And yet Murray just beat him and Fed beat him at RG. Novak is not unbeatable. Nobody is.


Sure seems that way with the way things are going.

cc0509
08-28-2011, 06:30 PM
So after all you're saying that the mileage thing is not really important...


No Crisstti, I never stated that at all.

Mileage is important but even if a player is slightly past or more than slightly past his prime, it does not mean he cannot go on to win more slams. Federer did it after his prime. Sampras did it. All of the greats do it.

cc0509
08-28-2011, 06:32 PM
You need to read this:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_RQjQvxtmK8A/TQJYAuFn1aI/AAAAAAAADaQ/tWxiXSr3Jq8/s1600/trolling-for-dummies.png

LOL, for sure!

JasonPlaysTennis
08-28-2011, 06:36 PM
http://cdn0.knowyourmeme.com/i/000/094/331/original/YallN1ggazPostinInATrollThread.jpg?1295566234
Listen to a brotha!

Sid_Vicious
08-28-2011, 07:19 PM
^^ I would not put up such pictures on this forum. The mods might hand out a ban to you for the "n word" in that picture.

zagor
02-23-2012, 01:28 PM
Will have to wait and see until the end of the year to be sure what is what. However, Nadal did look rather subpeak at FO 2011, also Wim 2011 was rather sloppy regardless of Novak playing a great match.

So Nadal is still in prime, however he is not playing peak anymore. Perhaps that will change next year, but I am not sure Nadal has his head 100% in the game. He does not seem to be trying as hard, and seems he has other stuff on his mind.

Did Nadal look subpeak or/and sloppy at 2012 AO?

TheCanadian
02-23-2012, 01:34 PM
I see a brighter future for Federer than Nadal.

Cup8489
02-23-2012, 01:36 PM
Did Nadal look subpeak or/and sloppy at 2012 AO?

trolling lolville?

zagor
02-23-2012, 01:50 PM
trolling lolville?

Of course not, I'm just interested in his observations* of Nadal's level of play in 2012 AO, did Nadal improve on his terrible, subpeak and sloppy 2011 level of play or is he still in decline.

*As LOLville himself says, he never makes excuses so we have to take his word for it.

FlashFlare11
02-23-2012, 03:22 PM
Of course not, I'm just interested in his observations* of Nadal's level of play in 2012 AO, did Nadal improve on his terrible, subpeak and sloppy 2011 level of play or is he still in decline.

*As LOLville himself says, he never makes excuses so we have to take his word for it.

He doesn't respond when posed with indisputable facts or is forced to answer a question which goes against his claims.

ultradr
02-23-2012, 03:55 PM
Currently, Nadal's backhand is broken, mainly by Djokovic. It's been like that
for about 2 year by now. He is natural righty and I wonder what's going on there....

phnx90
02-23-2012, 06:29 PM
Decline would suggest that there's no turning back, but I should think he is too young for that, even with all that milage in his legs.

It's more likely that he's just rusty or dropped his level a bit, yet improved his overall game plan/strategy for better results across all surfaces.

On a more technical, stroke-by-stroke level, his serve return's been gone for years (with only glimpses towards the end of the Berdych match) and his backhand just started coming back at the AO. He needs to hit good DTL backhands with more regularity like and power like in USO2010 to become less exploitable for Djokovic, but I have my worries that he'll be even less inclined to hit DTL backhands because of that miss he made in the 5th set of the AO final.

Perhaps coming in more would also be a good idea, especially on those body serves and slice serves out wide. Rafa may look awkward whilst volleying, but I think he's one of the better volleyers on tour. At any rate, even if he is a mediocre volleyer, he creates plenty of good opportunities for putaway volleys, which he simply doesn't take, to Djokovic's advantage. Plus, I feel that Djokovic's passing shot, like his slice, is weaker in comparison to the rest of his arsenal.

RAFA2005RG
02-23-2012, 06:45 PM
Rafa has been in decline since 2008, his best year. In 2010 Rafa won 3 slams, but his 2008 level was better. It's not relevant though, because Djoke struggles so much in his matches with Rafa anyway, as we saw in the AO final, 6 hours, 7-5 fifth set.

Cup8489
02-23-2012, 07:18 PM
Rafa has been in decline since 2008, his best year. In 2010 Rafa won 3 slams, but his 2008 level was better. It's not relevant though, because Djoke struggles so much in his matches with Rafa anyway, as we saw in the AO final, 6 hours, 7-5 fifth set.

early 2009 was GOAT-rafa. Until he overplayed himself..

RAFA2005RG
02-23-2012, 07:23 PM
early 2009 was GOAT-rafa. Until he overplayed himself..

True, I'll extend 2008 to very early 2009, far enough.

sbengte
02-23-2012, 07:28 PM
Rafa has been in decline since 2008, his best year. In 2010 Rafa won 3 slams, but his 2008 level was better. It's not relevant though, because Djoke struggles so much in his matches with Rafa anyway, as we saw in the AO final, 6 hours, 7-5 fifth set.

Interesting. So Rafa has been in decline since age 22.

Juan Ma Del Pony
02-23-2012, 07:40 PM
LOL. I should have stuck to my original plan and avoided this place but I just have to respond to the "Rafa has been in decline since 2008/early 2009" comment....

I find it amazing that a guy who was in decline was able to rack up 4 Slams and several weeks at #1 over the course of the past two years. If only my guy Del Po would "decline" like this, it would be awesome for Delpo KAD's like me. LOLOLOLOL.

sbengte
02-23-2012, 07:47 PM
LOL. I should have stuck to my original plan and avoided this place but


There's no hope for you. You are hooked :)
Of course everyone wishes their favorite player has the kind of "injuries" and "decline" that Nadal has, the kind that still allows him to play better than ever.

Clarky21
02-23-2012, 07:56 PM
There's no hope for you. You are hooked :)
Of course everyone wishes their favorite player has the kind of "injuries" and "decline" that Nadal has, the kind that still allows him to play better than ever.

Since when?

RAFA2005RG
02-23-2012, 07:57 PM
Interesting. So Rafa has been in decline since age 22.

Obviously, a player gets slower every year. And players who rely on movement are going to be in decline each year.

RAFA2005RG
02-23-2012, 08:01 PM
LOL. I should have stuck to my original plan and avoided this place but I just have to respond to the "Rafa has been in decline since 2008/early 2009" comment....

I find it amazing that a guy who was in decline was able to rack up 4 Slams and several weeks at #1 over the course of the past two years. If only my guy Del Po would "decline" like this, it would be awesome for Delpo KAD's like me. LOLOLOLOL.

Del Potro hasn't got the ability of Rafa. Plus he's a lot more injury-prone than Rafa. Del Potro's version of prime and decline is completely different. And the number one ranking doesn't measure prime/decline. Rafa will add to his 102 weeks ranked number one, probably this year, but it won't change the fact that he has declined.

Tony48
02-23-2012, 08:06 PM
Of course he's declining. How else could you explain losing to a guy who had one of the best years in tennis history?

Cup8489
02-23-2012, 08:12 PM
Of course he's declining. How else could you explain losing to a guy who had one of the best years in tennis history?

Well, we are asking the *******s to make a rational explanation. In their minds.. there's no way Djokovic was just too good. it must be Rafa's fault.

They make no more sense to me than any other *****.

Lawn Tennis
02-23-2012, 08:13 PM
Sure he's in mental decline. He's been there done that. A slam doesn't mean what it did 4 years ago to him. It doesn't matter what Rafa says - once you've conquered, the novelty is gone next time around.

RAFA2005RG
02-23-2012, 08:17 PM
People sometimes only look at results, and not realize that results are formed by opponents as much as they are by the player in question.

Federer won 2 slams in 2009 and made all 4 slam finals. One of the best years in tennis history. Is that his prime? :lol:

And Nadal won 3 slams in 2010. But his level wasn't as great as 2008 (at least at Roland Garros and Wimbledon).

sbengte
02-23-2012, 08:21 PM
Federer won 2 slams in 2009 and made all 4 slam finals. One of the best years in tennis history. Is that his prime? :lol:

And Nadal won 3 slams in 2010. But his level wasn't as great as 2008 (at least at Roland Garros and Wimbledon).

Sorry, not comparable. Fed's 2009 was not "one of the best" by his standards. For someone who had done the "3 slams + WTF + .. masters" combo thrice in his prime, 2009 was just a little better than 2008 because of 2 slams instead of one but nowhere as good as his prime 2004-2007.

Whereas with Nadal, clearly in 2010, he won 3 slams which he never did before.
As for 2011, there is a separate thread which compares his 2010 vs 2011 playing record and it is crystal clear that his level was better in 2011 if you keep Djokovic out of the equation in both years.

RAFA2005RG
02-23-2012, 08:23 PM
Sorry, not comparable. Fed's 2009 was not "one of the best" by his standards. For someone who had done the "3 slams + WTF + .. masters" combo thrice in his prime, 2009 was just a little better than 2008 because of 2 slams instead of one but nowhere as good as his prime 2004-2007.

Whereas with Nadal, clearly in 2010, he won 3 slams which he never did before.
As for 2011, there is a separate thread which compares his 2010 vs 2011 playing record and it is crystal clear that his level was better in 2011 if you keep Djokovic out of the equation in both years.

If you think Nadal's level at 2010 Roland Garros/Wimbledon was at the level of his 2008 Roland Garros/Wimbledon, you aren't worth replying to. 2008 was Nadal's prime. Not any other year.

Cup8489
02-23-2012, 08:27 PM
If you think Nadal's level at 2010 Roland Garros/Wimbledon was at the level of his 2008 Roland Garros/Wimbledon, you aren't worth replying to. 2008 was Nadal's prime. Not any other year.

He did win RG 2010 without dropping a set. Was he in total ruthless 'i will literally eat you alive right now' mode? No, but he was still very dominant.

MichaelNadal
02-23-2012, 08:27 PM
If you think Nadal's level at 2010 Roland Garros/Wimbledon was at the level of his 2008 Roland Garros/Wimbledon, you aren't worth replying to. 2008 was Nadal's prime. Not any other year.

Nah, surely Rafa with his playing style that is supposed to be completely burned out by 2009 is playing the best tennis of his career in 2012 no?

RAFA2005RG
02-23-2012, 08:29 PM
Nah, surely Rafa with his playing style that is supposed to be completely burned out by 2009 is playing the best tennis of his career in 2012 no?

You can't get your youth back. But you don't need your youth to go 6 hours with Djokovic on a hardcourt.

Juan Ma Del Pony
02-23-2012, 08:29 PM
Del Potro hasn't got the ability of Rafa. Plus he's a lot more injury-prone than Rafa. Del Potro's version of prime and decline is completely different. And the number one ranking doesn't measure prime/decline.Rafa will add to his 102 weeks ranked number one, probably this year, but it won't change the fact that he has declined.

Too much trolling overall in this entire post, but especially the bold parts. You have confirmed my suspicions. I really WILL be living in the Match Results part of this forum now. Good day, sir (or ma'am).

RAFA2005RG
02-23-2012, 08:31 PM
Too much trolling overall in this entire post, but especially the bold parts. You have confirmed my suspicions. I really WILL be living in the Match Results part of this forum now. Good day, sir (or ma'am).

Looks who's trolling^

I'm talking about tennis. Sorry if that's not what you are here for.

sbengte
02-23-2012, 08:32 PM
If you think Nadal's level at 2010 Roland Garros/Wimbledon was at the level of his 2008 Roland Garros/Wimbledon, you aren't worth replying to. 2008 was Nadal's prime. Not any other year.

2008 may be his absolute best year, but the point is 2008-2011 (and counting ?) are still his prime years. It's like 2004-2007 for Federer though the absolute peak year may be just one of those 4 years.

Juan Ma Del Pony
02-23-2012, 08:33 PM
2008 may be his absolute best year, but the point is 2008-2011 (and counting ?) are still his prime years. It's like 2004-2007 for Federer though the absolute peak year may be just one of those 4 years.

This post made too much sense for this part of the forum, dude. Come over to Match Results now, lol.

RAFA2005RG
02-23-2012, 08:37 PM
This post made too much sense for this part of the forum, dude. Come over to Match Results now, lol.

More trolling^

Stick to tennis 'dude'.

Cup8489
02-23-2012, 09:03 PM
More trolling^

Stick to tennis 'dude'.

At least he doesnt have 5 accounts setup for when one or 3 get banned, *********/nadalwon2012/nadalwon/rafa2005rg/vamosfire etc etc. LOL

RAFA2005RG
02-23-2012, 09:24 PM
At least he doesnt have 5 accounts setup for when one or 3 get banned, *********/nadalwon2012/nadalwon/rafa2005rg/vamosfire etc etc. LOL

Let me guess, you think I'm ********* nadalowon2012 nadalowon vamos fire....in your dreams troll.

Mike Sams
02-23-2012, 09:33 PM
2008 may be his absolute best year, but the point is 2008-2011 (and counting ?) are still his prime years. It's like 2004-2007 for Federer though the absolute peak year may be just one of those 4 years.

Peak is only when you're winning eh? Let's not contend with the possibility that maybe...just maybe...somebody else comes along who quite simply is just...better! :lol:
Nadal's prime is right now. He's never been better than he is right now. It's just a case of his demented fanatics being unable to accept the new reality that his best isn't good enough because a younger, stronger, more talented player has emerged.:)

namelessone
02-23-2012, 10:02 PM
Nadal's prime is right now.

Which is something that almost every Nadal fan(outside of zilla like trolls) has said outside of clay. Nadal is not in his clay prime anymore IMO. Nadal is still in his prime on grass and HC.

He's never been better than he is right now.

Bulls**t. He had numerous, better, periods on clay, his peak level of play on grass was probably 07-08 and the best I've seen Nadal play on HC was in the end of 2010.

If Nadal played like this when he burst onto the scene, he would have a lot less fans.

Cheetah
02-23-2012, 10:32 PM
He's never been better than he is right now. It's just a case of his demented fanatics being unable to accept the new reality that his best isn't good enough because a younger, stronger, more talented player has emerged.:)

nope. no way. nadal was better 2 years ago. and 3 years ago too.

Evan77
02-23-2012, 11:07 PM
no, Nadal is still great. it's just that one guy raised his game to the new level. If it wasn't for Nole, Rafa would probably have 15 slams by now. Rafa's only problem is Djokovic.

RAFA2005RG
02-23-2012, 11:18 PM
Djoke will never be at the Rafa 2008 level. Neither will Rafa, but looks like his 2012 level is good enough to beat Djoke anyway, so problema.

sbengte
02-24-2012, 12:35 AM
It is obvious to anyone except those Nadal haters who are hell bent on saying poor Nadal has declined when he is still a beast against anyone against Djokovic.

This post courtesy akv89 from another thread will hopefully make the haters see some light (asking for too much ,I know) on what is decline and what is being outplayed by a better player.


Federer declined more in 2008 than Nadal in 2011, both in terms of results as well as level of play. A general decline in play would imply that the declining player would lose more often to everyone. This happened to Federer but not to Nadal. It seems like the general arguments against decline for either player are about the improvement in the level of play of the successor (Nadal in 08, Djokovic in 11) as opposed to the decline of the player himself. If this was true, then there should not be a significant drop in Federer's win/loss ratio if we ignore matches between Federer and Nadal in 07/08 (and likewise with Nadal and Djokovic in 10/11).

Federer's record in 2007 (Excluding Nadal): 65-7 (90.3%)
Federer's record in 2008 (Excluding Nadal): 66-11 (85.7%)

Nadal's record in 2010 (Excluding Djokovic): 69-10 (87.3%)
Nadal's record in 2011 (Excluding Djokovic): 69-9 (88.5%)

Federer did relatively worse in 08 against the rest of the field than he did in 07 while Nadal did about the same (slightly better even).


Besides this, it is well known that Nadal made more finals in 2011 compared to 2010 and would have by far had the best ever year of his career in 2011 if not for Djokovic. Not something that can be said about Federer in 2008-2012 compared to any of his prime years in 2004-2007.

Nadal's record against top 10 in 2010 was 11-5 . Take out Djokovic and his 2011 record against top 10 would be 16-4. And this when you can say that fewer top players were in slumps in 2011 compared to 2010 (even though that is subjective). So yeah, Nadal declined and did better against a field which possibly improved. Cool story.

phnx90
02-24-2012, 01:29 AM
2008 may be his absolute best year, but the point is 2008-2011 (and counting ?) are still his prime years. It's like 2004-2007 for Federer though the absolute peak year may be just one of those 4 years.

This sounds somewhat very familiar :D

FlashFlare11
02-24-2012, 04:33 AM
Which is something that almost every Nadal fan(outside of zilla like trolls) has said outside of clay. Nadal is not in his clay prime anymore IMO. Nadal is still in his prime on grass and HC.



Bulls**t. He had numerous, better, periods on clay, his peak level of play on grass was probably 07-08 and the best I've seen Nadal play on HC was in the end of 2010.

Now, I don't disagree with you that Nadal has played better on clay, but I wouldn't call it a decline yet. A decline is a trend and, so far, we only have one season to go by. If he doesn't do any better this year, then I think we can call it a decline, but I personally want to hold off on calling it that.

DjokovicForTheWin
02-24-2012, 04:36 AM
This sounds somewhat very familiar :D

Hey what happened to the other thread????? I spent a lot of time on those poasts!

phnx90
02-24-2012, 05:39 AM
Hey what happened to the other thread????? I spent a lot of time on those poasts!

I think it got deleted...shame too, because I was writing out my reply when I realised it went kaputt

Sentinel
02-24-2012, 05:58 AM
Did Nadal look subpeak or/and sloppy at 2012 AO?
Course not, it was Noel who was dropping sets like nine-pins. Nadal was in immaculate form but was beaten by a lucky Noel.

I trust you saw the AO.

DjokovicForTheWin
02-24-2012, 06:02 AM
He doesn't respond when posed with indisputable facts or is forced to answer a question which goes against his claims.

This is so true LOL :) Anytime you ask point blank question that he can't answer or will make him look like a fool, he'll respond with don't be a drama queen or some crazy jpg :). Hehe.

Cup8489
02-24-2012, 07:24 AM
Djoke will never be at the Rafa 2008 level. Neither will Rafa, but looks like his 2012 level is good enough to beat Djoke anyway, so problema.

What the heck you smoking? He just LOST to Djokovic, in 2012 LOLOLOL

Delusional *******s... always good for a kicking bag.

DjokovicForTheWin
02-24-2012, 07:26 AM
Djoker will surpass any level that NAdal has displayed on clay.

TMF
02-24-2012, 08:00 AM
Djoke will never be at the Rafa 2008 level. Neither will Rafa, but looks like his 2012 level is good enough to beat Djoke anyway, so problema.

Nole 2011 made the top 10 greatest season. Rafa 2008 is not on the list.

phnx90
02-24-2012, 08:12 AM
What the heck you smoking? He just LOST to Djokovic, in 2012 LOLOLOL

Delusional *******s... always good for a kicking bag.

...and yet he claims he's not nadalwon2012, and in the process, making Fedtrolls look like rational people.

zagor
02-24-2012, 09:31 AM
****s = denial

**** = realists

Nadal will have to do something drastic next year, like he has in previous years, if he is still to continue. Not saying that he can't do it, however the likely hood is rather low at this point in time. He does not look like he has the motivation, focus, energy, etc like he did at his peak and that is rather obvious.

When was Nadal's peak?

Mike Sams
02-24-2012, 10:05 AM
Which is something that almost every Nadal fan(outside of zilla like trolls) has said outside of clay. Nadal is not in his clay prime anymore IMO. Nadal is still in his prime on grass and HC.



Bulls**t. He had numerous, better, periods on clay, his peak level of play on grass was probably 07-08 and the best I've seen Nadal play on HC was in the end of 2010.

If Nadal played like this when he burst onto the scene, he would have a lot less fans.

The thing you fail to realize ******* is that a career spans over a decade. A prime doesn't last for 1 or 2 years. Just because Nadal won USO 2010 against a sh*t draw doesn't mean USO 2010 was his hardcourt prime. Just because Nadal won FO 2008 impressively doesn't mean FO 2008 was his clay prime. You measure a man's prime based on his results over a period of time.
Nadal's clay prime is NOW. Just because he's losing to a potential legend in Djokovic doesn't take away the fact that Nadal is in his prime right now.
Physically, his prime is now, regardless of how tough Isner played him at the FO last year and regardless of losing to Djokovic in Rome and Madrid. It has no bearing on Nadal's overall achievements. His results are exceptional as he continues to make final after final and is being stopped by a considerably more talented player. It's just life.
Every player meets a superior player sooner or later. It has nothing to do with "prime".
Stupid *******s! :lol: Go outside and take up a sport and you'll figure it out for yourself.

kishnabe
02-24-2012, 10:31 AM
The thing you fail to realize ******* is that a career spans over a decade. A prime doesn't last for 1 or 2 years. Just because Nadal won USO 2010 against a sh*t draw doesn't mean USO 2010 was his hardcourt prime. Just because Nadal won FO 2008 impressively doesn't mean FO 2008 was his clay prime. You measure a man's prime based on his results over a period of time.
Nadal's clay prime is NOW. Just because he's losing to a potential legend in Djokovic doesn't take away the fact that Nadal is in his prime right now.
Physically, his prime is now, regardless of how tough Isner played him at the FO last year and regardless of losing to Djokovic in Rome and Madrid. It has no bearing on Nadal's overall achievements. His results are exceptional as he continues to make final after final and is being stopped by a considerably more talented player. It's just life.
Every player meets a superior player sooner or later. It has nothing to do with "prime".
Stupid *******s! :lol: Go outside and take up a sport and you'll figure it out for yourself.
I agree in the physical sense.

Every person body most potential years starts at 22 and ends at 26.

Edberg&Becker
02-24-2012, 01:37 PM
It almost done Rafa, this may be his last year on high top form

Logan71
02-24-2012, 02:15 PM
If you look at Becker,Borg,Chang,Hingis,Hewitt,or any who won slams in most cases early will always suffer earlier in their career.

I say Nadal has had his best days.

kragster
02-24-2012, 02:24 PM
The thing you fail to realize ******* is that a career spans over a decade. A prime doesn't last for 1 or 2 years. Just because Nadal won USO 2010 against a sh*t draw doesn't mean USO 2010 was his hardcourt prime. Just because Nadal won FO 2008 impressively doesn't mean FO 2008 was his clay prime. You measure a man's prime based on his results over a period of time.
Nadal's clay prime is NOW. Just because he's losing to a potential legend in Djokovic doesn't take away the fact that Nadal is in his prime right now.
Physically, his prime is now, regardless of how tough Isner played him at the FO last year and regardless of losing to Djokovic in Rome and Madrid. It has no bearing on Nadal's overall achievements. His results are exceptional as he continues to make final after final and is being stopped by a considerably more talented player. It's just life.
Every player meets a superior player sooner or later. It has nothing to do with "prime".
Stupid *******s! :lol: Go outside and take up a sport and you'll figure it out for yourself.

I think your trolling rivals that of sureshs, makes me proud to be an Indian knowing we have such great poasters in our midst.

FlashFlare11
02-24-2012, 02:37 PM
I think your trolling rivals that of sureshs, makes me proud to be an Indian knowing we have such great poasters in our midst.

Sureshs makes you proud to be an Indian? Hahaha we definitely do not share the same feelings.

Juan Ma Del Pony
02-24-2012, 02:41 PM
Sureshs makes you proud to be an Indian? Hahaha we definitely do not share the same feelings.

Are you Indian FlashFlare and Kragster? Me, too! That is so funny haha....

FlashFlare11
02-24-2012, 02:50 PM
Are you Indian FlashFlare and Kragster? Me, too! That is so funny haha....

Yeah I am! Wow, I didn't know there were so many on this site! I was born in the US though.

Juan Ma Del Pony
02-24-2012, 03:04 PM
Yeah I am! Wow, I didn't know there were so many on this site! I was born in the US though.

Me, too. So I don't know if I really "count" but I think all the other ones on this site were born in and still live in India. Not sure though...

FlashFlare11
02-24-2012, 03:09 PM
Me, too. So I don't know if I really "count" but I think all the other ones on this site were born in and still live in India. Not sure though...

Yeah, Sentinel, tusharlovesrafa, and many of the others live in India, I believe. Nikdom, though, is Indian (pretty nice guy, too) and he lives in the States. I didn't know Mike Sams was Indian until just recently.

It's always nice to see and interact with other Indians!

Juan Ma Del Pony
02-24-2012, 03:11 PM
Yeah, Sentinel, tusharlovesrafa, and many of the others live in India, I believe. Nikdom, though, is Indian (pretty nice guy, too) and he lives in the States. I didn't know Mike Sams was Indian until just recently.

It's always nice to see and interact with other Indians!

Mike Sams is Indian?!!! What the...? I guess we should not go by avatars/username, LOL. After all, I am not even a man LOL.

FlashFlare11
02-24-2012, 03:20 PM
Mike Sams is Indian?!!! What the...? I guess we should not go by avatars/username, LOL. After all, I am not even a man LOL.

Hahaha yeah I pretty much had the same reaction! Yeah, going by avatars is definitely not accurate at all.

A female del Potro fan? That's cool! Most of the regular females here (Clarky21, MariaRafael, Vernonbc, Veroniquem, Crisstti) are Nadal fans, so it's refreshing to see a female who's a fan of someone different.

Juan Ma Del Pony
02-24-2012, 03:26 PM
Hahaha yeah I pretty much had the same reaction! Yeah, going by avatars is definitely not accurate at all.

A female del Potro fan? That's cool! Most of the regular females here (Clarky21, MariaRafael, Vernonbc, Veroniquem, Crisstti) are Nadal fans, so it's refreshing to see a female who's a fan of someone different.

Well actually I never cared about men's tennis that much in 2004-2007 except when Nadal was playing because I felt like the Fedal matches were the only interesting ones of that era, haha. So originally I guess I was a Nadal "fan" but more out of desperation for someone to beat Federer than anything else. Sorry for that, I'm not trolling, just my honest opinion. For some reason I never got into Federer's game/personality on court so I never became his true fan but I'm not going to lie, he is the GOAT in my book. What he did in 2004-2007 is probably never going to be repeated again.

I was more of a WTA fan at that time. Then the WTA collapsed in epic fashion in 2008/2009 after Henin, Mauresmo, Clijsters, etc retired and Juan Martin started rising so I switched to ATP, and now I like ATP better than WTA!! But I think it's pretty cyclical. Some ATP years are bound to be duds while the WTA has more interesting stories and better top players, and vice versa. Really I'm a fan of the game overall, which is why I still kept watching after some of my favorite players like Mauresmo, Clijsters, Safin, etc, retired in 2008/2009.

EDIT: By the way, did you ever post on TennisWorld with Pete Bodo? I used to post there in '06/'07 and I knew an Indian guy from Philly there who really liked Federer and Henin. Just wondering if it was you. I was "Momofan" in those days haha.

FlashFlare11
02-24-2012, 03:38 PM
Well actually I never cared about men's tennis that much in 2004-2007 except when Nadal was playing because I felt like the Fedal matches were the only interesting ones of that era, haha. So originally I guess I was a Nadal "fan" but more out of desperation for someone to beat Federer than anything else. Sorry for that, I'm not trolling, just my honest opinion. For some reason I never got into Federer's game/personality on court so I never became his true fan but I'm not going to lie, he is the GOAT in my book. What he did in 2004-2007 is probably never going to be repeated again.

I was more of a WTA fan at that time. Then the WTA collapsed in epic fashion in 2008/2009 after Henin, Mauresmo, Clijsters, etc retired and Juan Martin started rising so I switched to ATP, and now I like ATP better than WTA!! But I think it's pretty cyclical. Some ATP years are bound to be duds while the WTA has more interesting stories and better top players, and vice versa. Really I'm a fan of the game overall, which is why I still kept watching after some of my favorite players like Mauresmo, Clijsters, Safin, etc, retired in 2008/2009.

EDIT: By the way, did you ever post on TennisWorld with Pete Bodo? I used to post there in '06/'07 and I knew an Indian guy from Philly there who really liked Federer and Henin. Just wondering if it was you. I was "Momofan" in those days haha.

Why are you apologizing? There's no need for it. We all have our favorites and players we just don't like. I know you're not trolling (believe me, there's a huge difference between you and a troll). Don't worry about anything! It's awesome that you can see past your dislike of Federer though! I think Nadal is the greatest clay court player ever.

I like a certain few players in the WTA, but I'm rather young (19) so I didn't get a chance to watch the golden age of Navratilova or Evert or even the Williams during their prime. I liked watching Henin play (hahaha that wasn't me, by the wy) and Serena's a great player and champion in my books as well.

kragster
02-24-2012, 03:41 PM
Sureshs makes you proud to be an Indian? Hahaha we definitely do not share the same feelings.

You realize I'm being sarcastic right :)

Incidentally I'm really glad to see a slew of active posters on this forum who are very balanced like you guys. As you can see , pretty much every thread on this forum degrades into a fed vs nadal mud fight.

namelessone
02-24-2012, 03:45 PM
The thing you fail to realize ******* is that a career spans over a decade. A prime doesn't last for 1 or 2 years. Just because Nadal won USO 2010 against a sh*t draw doesn't mean USO 2010 was his hardcourt prime. Just because Nadal won FO 2008 impressively doesn't mean FO 2008 was his clay prime. You measure a man's prime based on his results over a period of time.

You seem to have trouble with reading the post. I said 2008 was his clay peak, not prime. And looking at Nadal's clay level over a period of time(2005-2011), it's pretty evident that 2008 was his best clay level. 2008 RG is the slam where he lost the least amount of games, with no sets lost.

Also, Nadal is in his prime overall, just not on clay. Nadal dominated clay for 6 seasons before 2011(unlike grass or HC), you actually expect us to believe that he is still there after his performance in clay season 2011? I mean, Nadal WON RG and most pundits I've heard say that, while he is still a challenge, he is by no means the force he once was on this surface. Nadal was pushed to five by ISNER, was almost breadsticked by a clay nobody(relatively speaking), was within 2 games of losing in Rome to nr.130 in the world(lorenzi or whatever his name was) and way post prime Fed had him by the throat in the final(prime/peak Nadal beating a much better Fed in the past here).

Yup, sound like clay prime to me.



Nadal's clay prime is NOW. Just because he's losing to a potential legend in Djokovic doesn't take away the fact that Nadal is in his prime right now.

Nadal is in his prime off-clay. Nadal had plenty of bad non-Djokovic matches on clay this year.


Physically, his prime is now, regardless of how tough Isner played him at the FO last year and regardless of losing to Djokovic in Rome and Madrid.

Why regardless? It's of no importance that Nadal gets pushed to give by a servebot on clay? That he could barely maneouver a 2 meter guy around even when the rally got going?



Stupid *******s! :lol: Go outside and take up a sport and you'll figure it out for yourself.

LOL, this is from the guy that has almost 2100 posts even though he joined at the end of last year. Don't you worry about the sports I play, you should however worry about the quality of the threads you start.

Juan Ma Del Pony
02-24-2012, 03:46 PM
Why are you apologizing? There's no need for it. We all have our favorites and players we just don't like. I know you're not trolling (believe me, there's a huge difference between you and a troll). Don't worry about anything! It's awesome that you can see past your dislike of Federer though! I think Nadal is the greatest clay court player ever.

I like a certain few players in the WTA, but I'm rather young (19) so I didn't get a chance to watch the golden age of Navratilova or Evert or even the Williams during their prime. I liked watching Henin play (hahaha that wasn't me, by the wy) and Serena's a great player and champion in my books as well.

Well, I was told not to **** off the Federer fans on this board the first time I came here and announced that I myself was not a Federer fan, so that's why haha.

And I must admit, I have a lot of the same "reasons" for liking Juan Martin as a lot of female fans have for liking Nadal ;) But I also really admire young players who are able to "take it" to the older generations, and what I saw from Del Potro in USO '09 to take down Nadal and Federer back-to-back is something I had not seen previously and have not seen again from any of the "Generation Suck" members like Cilic, lazy complacent Gulbis, Dolgopolov, etc, etc. I just like to find the "new young thing" so I can support someone for the whole career, which is why I'm a really big fan of Del Petra on the women's side now too. I bet if I had witnessed Federer's de-throning of Sampras in 2001 Wimbly I'd be a fan of his as well, but unfortunately I was too young for that one.

Agree that Federer is GOAT, Nadal is ClayGOAT, but Djoker's 2011 season was *very* impressive. He might have a case for some kind of GOAT himself if he manages to hold 4 Slams in a row + an Olympic gold medal. I'm still waiting to see Lendy Murray come good on his potential, and Juan Martin to return to Top 5. Then we will have a good, strong "young" ATP for that day when people like Federer, Roddick, Fish, and Ferrer start to retire.

FlashFlare11
02-24-2012, 03:46 PM
You realize I'm being sarcastic right :)

Hahaha yeah, but I needed to make sure he knew about it.

Juan Ma Del Pony
02-24-2012, 03:47 PM
You realize I'm being sarcastic right :)

Incidentally I'm really glad to see a slew of active posters on this forum who are very balanced like you guys. As you can see , pretty much every thread on this forum degrades into a fed vs nadal mud fight.

Kragster, you mean like the post right below the one I'm quoting? LMAO! Comedic timing at its best....

FlashFlare11
02-24-2012, 03:57 PM
Well, I was told not to **** off the Federer fans on this board the first time I came here and announced that I myself was not a Federer fan, so that's why haha.

And I must admit, I have a lot of the same "reasons" for liking Juan Martin as a lot of female fans have for liking Nadal ;) But I also really admire young players who are able to "take it" to the older generations, and what I saw from Del Potro in USO '09 to take down Nadal and Federer back-to-back is something I had not seen previously and have not seen again from any of the "Generation Suck" members like Cilic, lazy complacent Gulbis, Dolgopolov, etc, etc. I just like to find the "new young thing" so I can support someone for the whole career, which is why I'm a really big fan of Del Petra on the women's side now too. I bet if I had witnessed Federer's de-throning of Sampras in 2001 Wimbly I'd be a fan of his as well, but unfortunately I was too young for that one.

Agree that Federer is GOAT, Nadal is ClayGOAT, but Djoker's 2011 season was *very* impressive. He might have a case for some kind of GOAT himself if he manages to hold 4 Slams in a row + an Olympic gold medal. I'm still waiting to see Lendy Murray come good on his potential, and Juan Martin to return to Top 5. Then we will have a good, strong "young" ATP for that day when people like Federer, Roddick, Fish, and Ferrer start to retire.

I think you've been here long enough to make a judgement call on your own. There are extremely kind and reasonable Federer fans here, like Towser83, Zagor, DjokovicForTheWin (he's quite reasonabe and fair-minded, actually), Nikdom, Nathaniel Near, Sentinel and many others. My favorite Nadal fans are Mustard, MichaelNadal, Crisstti. I haven't had any bad encounters with any Federer fans fans here. But just as there are unkind Federer, there are also scathing Nadal fans as well (I saw the comment warning you about Federer fans and let me just say, it came from the biggest Nadal worshipper on this board).

But yeah, most people are kind as long as you stay reasonable and fair-minded. I'm sure you won't find much trouble here!

Juan Ma Del Pony
02-24-2012, 04:08 PM
Ya I like most of the people on here, apart from the obvious trolls, who are on my "ignore" list anyway haha. That's why I switched to this board anyway. It's much better organized than other ones I've been frequenting lately.

I'm sure it'll get crazy around here when RG rolls around, especially if there are any big upsets, but I just ignore the trolls anyway...

FlashFlare11
02-24-2012, 04:13 PM
Well, I was told not to **** off the Federer fans on this board the first time I came here and announced that I myself was not a Federer fan, so that's why haha.

And I must admit, I have a lot of the same "reasons" for liking Juan Martin as a lot of female fans have for liking Nadal ;) But I also really admire young players who are able to "take it" to the older generations, and what I saw from Del Potro in USO '09 to take down Nadal and Federer back-to-back is something I had not seen previously and have not seen again from any of the "Generation Suck" members like Cilic, lazy complacent Gulbis, Dolgopolov, etc, etc. I just like to find the "new young thing" so I can support someone for the whole career, which is why I'm a really big fan of Del Petra on the women's side now too. I bet if I had witnessed Federer's de-throning of Sampras in 2001 Wimbly I'd be a fan of his as well, but unfortunately I was too young for that one.

Agree that Federer is GOAT, Nadal is ClayGOAT, but Djoker's 2011 season was *very* impressive. He might have a case for some kind of GOAT himself if he manages to hold 4 Slams in a row + an Olympic gold medal. I'm still waiting to see Lendy Murray come good on his potential, and Juan Martin to return to Top 5. Then we will have a good, strong "young" ATP for that day when people like Federer, Roddick, Fish, and Ferrer start to retire.

I wish I had watched to Federer-Sampras match live as well. Admittedly, I've been a fan Federer's since the Wimbledon 2008 final. I just started learning how to play tennis at the time and the first time I watched Federer play, I loved the way he made tennis look effortless. I've been a fan ever since. I've been trying to emulate his style of play on the court and I've even developed a one-handed backhand through watching Federer hit that stroke. I've watched s many of his old matches though and I wish I had the opportunity to watch Sampras and Agassi too.

Federer made me love tennis and through watching him, I've become a better tennis player myself. For that, I am a Roger Federer for life!

kragster
02-24-2012, 04:44 PM
Delpo is just a fluke, pretty much he won USO because of Fed choking.









I kid, I kid!

DjokovicForTheWin
02-24-2012, 04:44 PM
Whatever. We can just agree to disagree on who's a troll/who's not a troll. I have my ignore list, and you have yours.

As long as no one insults my boy del Po, I'm gonna be pretty darn reasonable and straightforward. Start telling me that "del Po is a One Slam Wonder," though, and I will give as good as I get. To quote MotherMarjorie (the funniest troll ever in my opinion, the others are just sad): "Yup, you betcha!"

I actually see big things for Delpo in 2012. He's my third favourite after Djoker/Fed.

Juan Ma Del Pony
02-24-2012, 04:45 PM
^^My brother just said this to me this morning, Kragster. He's the one who trolls me the best LOL. Thank god I only have to deal with him "in real life" and not on the Internetz LOL.

Juan Ma Del Pony
02-24-2012, 04:49 PM
DelPo is the only good one to come out of that "Generation Suck." All the others are disappointments, but I will give Cilic a slight pass because of the injury that he's been struggling with for quite some time now. Gulbis = total lazy loser, in my book. Dolgopolov has game but he loses to the weirdest people.

Really don't see too many good young players coming up either. Raonic looks like the best of the bunch. I like Tomic's game but his attitude is horrible and he needs to add some bulk if he's gonna cut it on tour with the "big boys" for years. Don't see Dimitrov improving, either. Still undecided on Harrison, Sock, etc.

DjokovicForTheWin
02-24-2012, 04:53 PM
Delpo and Raonic will lead 2013 and beyond.

Mike Sams
02-24-2012, 04:56 PM
Delpo is just a fluke, pretty much he won USO because of Fed choking.









I kid, I kid!

Not even Federer has seen forehands as huge as what Del Potro unleashed that day. It's the reason for Del Potro's severe wrist injury.

FlashFlare11
02-24-2012, 04:59 PM
I like both del Potro and Raonic a lot. As much as I like Djokovic, I'm glad the younger generation isn't letting the slowed conditions change their games to a more defense-oriented style. We have the power hitters (del Potro, Raonic), quirky players (Tomic, Dolgopolov), the big servers (Raonic, Harrison), and the all-courter (hopefully will be Dimitrov first, then everyone else).

The future of tennis looks exciting!

kragster
02-24-2012, 05:01 PM
I love the angles dolgo creates, I think he is an amazing talent but I don't see him having that killed mentality. I think Tomic will be a top 5 one day.

Juan Ma Del Pony
02-24-2012, 05:01 PM
I like both del Potro and Raonic a lot. As much as I like Djokovic, I'm glad the younger generation isn't letting the slowed conditions change their games to a more defense-oriented style. We have the power hitters (del Potro, Raonic), quirky players (Tomic, Dolgopolov), the big servers (Raonic, Harrison), and the all-courter (hopefully will be Dimitrov first, then everyone else).

The future of tennis looks exciting!

Don't hold your breath buddy...Dimitrov is still stuck losing to the other, slightly older flameout in 1st round of tournies like Memphis, aka Donald Young. I really like Dimi's game and I think he's super handsome so of course I'd love to support him LOL but his shot selection is so pathetic, it just makes me mad. I give him one more year and then I'll have to declare him a failure too unfortunately.

DjokovicForTheWin
02-24-2012, 05:02 PM
I like both del Potro and Raonic a lot. As much as I like Djokovic, I'm glad the younger generation isn't letting the slowed conditions change their games to a more defense-oriented style. We have the power hitters (del Potro, Raonic), quirky players (Tomic, Dolgopolov), the big servers (Raonic, Harrison), and the all-courter (hopefully will be Dimitrov first, then everyone else).

The future of tennis looks exciting!

And on top of that you have the top 4! This has got to be the greatest era in tennis behind the mid 80s.

FlashFlare11
02-24-2012, 05:06 PM
Don't hold your breath buddy...Dimitrov is still stuck losing to the other, slightly older flameout in 1st round of tournies like Memphis, aka Donald Young. I really like Dimi's game and I think he's super handsome so of course I'd love to support him LOL but his shot selection is so pathetic, it just makes me mad. I give him one more year and then I'll have to declare him a failure too unfortunately.
Well, I'm willing to give him just a bit more time. The talent is definitely there. I'm pulling for him!

And on top of that you have the top 4! This has got to be the greatest era in tennis behind the mid 80s.
You got that right! Tennis has got to be at an all-time high when it comes to excitement and quality of play and players!

cork_screw
02-24-2012, 07:58 PM
Nope, Djokovic is just dominating right now. And he is doing very well head to head against rafa. If djokovic wasn't there, rafa would have won wimby, USO, and probably aussie. That isn't a decline when one guy is beating you. You see the decline when a variety of different players are beating you.

DjokovicForTheWin
02-24-2012, 08:00 PM
I mean on clay, who other than Djokovic is actually beating Nadal??? No one. No decline.

monfed
02-24-2012, 08:12 PM
I mean on clay, who other than Djokovic is actually beating Nadal??? No one. No decline.

Not to mention Ralph won MC as usual. He would've won Madrid and Rome had he not faced Novak. Identical clay sweep as in 2010 and he's in decline? :lol:

Cheetah
02-24-2012, 08:29 PM
I mean on clay, who other than Djokovic is actually beating Nadal??? No one. No decline.

This is flawed logic. Just because noone is beating him doesnt mean he's playing as well as he used to. And no i'm not some lame nadal hater. His backhand is not as good as it used to be. His forehand isn't either. He's still better than everyone but djoko but not as good as before. By your reasoning then you might as well say fed is playing his best too because only 2 guys are beating him.

DjokovicForTheWin
02-24-2012, 09:01 PM
This is flawed logic. Just because noone is beating him doesnt mean he's playing as well as he used to. And no i'm not some lame nadal hater. His backhand is not as good as it used to be. His forehand isn't either. He's still better than everyone but djoko but not as good as before. By your reasoning then you might as well say fed is playing his best too because only 2 guys are beating him.

THat's not true. Fed is losing to more than those 2 guys. Moreover, that you say his BH and FH is not good may or may not be true. It's just your interpretation. Maybe his BH and FH are even better and it's just Djoker that is so much better. All of those ideas cancel out. What we're left with is Nadal losing really only to one guy. Djoker.

cc0509
02-24-2012, 09:02 PM
This is flawed logic. Just because noone is beating him doesnt mean he's playing as well as he used to. And no i'm not some lame nadal hater. His backhand is not as good as it used to be. His forehand isn't either. He's still better than everyone but djoko but not as good as before. By your reasoning then you might as well say fed is playing his best too because only 2 guys are beating him.

+1, good post.

Dilettante
02-24-2012, 09:04 PM
I personally dont think he is declining, how could he do that at 25?

http://www.memosport.fr/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/borg_01.jpg

Cup8489
02-24-2012, 09:36 PM
http://www.memosport.fr/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/borg_01.jpg

I wouldn't say Borg declined except maybe losing the fire..

sbengte
02-24-2012, 10:18 PM
There are extremely kind and reasonable Federer fans here, like Towser83, Zagor, DjokovicForTheWin (he's quite reasonabe and fair-minded, actually), Nikdom, Nathaniel Near, Sentinel and many others.


OMG. What.an.embarrassment. I don't know what you guys have been doing to be called Fed fans but Senti and Nathaniel_Near, one more citation like that could get you evicted from the Brotherhood of the Bull. Be warned.
Vamos.

Nathaniel_Near
02-24-2012, 10:39 PM
OMG. What.an.embarrassment. I don't know what you guys have been doing to be called Fed fans but Senti and Nathaniel_Near, one more citation like that could get you evicted from the Brotherhood of the Bull. Be warned.
Vamos.

How dare I be heralded as a fan of that deliciously talented most likable Swiss champion. That is scandalous, outrageous!

I am a proud member of the Brotherhood of Bull. If these posters continue to sully my name, I'll be forced to take drastic action.

FlashFlare11
02-24-2012, 11:41 PM
OMG. What.an.embarrassment. I don't know what you guys have been doing to be called Fed fans but Senti and Nathaniel_Near, one more citation like that could get you evicted from the Brotherhood of the Bull. Be warned.
Vamos.

How dare I be heralded as a fan of that deliciously talented most likable Swiss champion. That is scandalous, outrageous!

I am a proud member of the Brotherhood of Bull. If these posters continue to sully my name, I'll be forced to take drastic action.

I deeply apologize. I won't make this mistake again ;)

Jim Courier fan
02-25-2012, 04:00 AM
I mean on clay, who other than Djokovic is actually beating Nadal??? No one. No decline.

exactly, only nole can do it :evil:

NamRanger
02-25-2012, 04:45 AM
http://www.memosport.fr/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/borg_01.jpg


Borg quit the game at the top, Nadal is still WINNING at the top, it's just that one guy is beating him. The excuses about Nadal declining are really asinine, he is good as ever on HC/Grass/Clay and has absolutely 0 excuse when losing to Djokovic. This is not like Federer in 2008/2009 where there was a clear level of him slowly dropping off (He lost to plenty of players he normally dominated all year long, and struggled greatly in the slams against players he typically beat easily).



Nadal still beats every single person not named Djokovic at every single tournament. There is NO excuse. Period. Even if there was a drop off, the drop off is so marginal there's no way you could ever sustain peak level of play all the time anyways. Djokovic and Nadal have played enough matches to say that Djokovic is simply just beating Nadal fair and square, no ifs and or buts. Nadal's level of play is clearly phenomenal, higher 99.9% of the world. I'm so sick of people saying that NADAL IS IN DECLINE blah blah blah.

DjokovicForTheWin
02-25-2012, 06:33 AM
*****, Djoker is playing some of the best tennis in history as proven by one of the all time great seasons in 2011. Nadal is keeping up with him as shown in AO12 despite the low quality of that match. Therefore Nadal is better than ever.

niff
02-25-2012, 06:52 AM
Well, I was told not to **** off the Federer fans on this board the first time I came here and announced that I myself was not a Federer fan, so that's why haha.
vernon is a troll.

kragster
02-25-2012, 07:54 AM
How dare I be heralded as a fan of that deliciously talented most likable Swiss champion. That is scandalous, outrageous!

I am a proud member of the Brotherhood of Bull. If these posters continue to sully my name, I'll be forced to take drastic action.

The brotherhood of the bull is a kind warm place, where we gather to eat marshmallows around a fire. We will always have a place for you here.

rafan
02-25-2012, 08:58 AM
I wouldn't say Borg declined except maybe losing the fire..

Borg was not declining. He wanted time out ( see Macenro's biography) If he had been allowed to have time he would have carried on for quite a bit longer

Cheetah
02-25-2012, 10:44 AM
THat's not true. Fed is losing to more than those 2 guys. Moreover, that you say his BH and FH is not good may or may not be true. It's just your interpretation. Maybe his BH and FH are even better and it's just Djoker that is so much better. All of those ideas cancel out. What we're left with is Nadal losing really only to one guy. Djoker.

That's news to me. Who else is fed losing to? Isner? Isner would have beaten anyone that day. Fed also bageled nadal recently if I recall. And Nishikori beat Djoko. Therefore nishikori is the best player alive now if I understand what you're saying.