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View Full Version : Grigor Tries to Kiss Monfils on Mouth?


JoelDali
08-29-2011, 07:20 PM
Did anyone just see that handshake?

Comedy GOLD!

danielrios
08-29-2011, 07:21 PM
Hahaha I just enter here to say that

TiberiusGracchus
08-29-2011, 07:22 PM
I saw that as well...didn't surprise me tho, that was one of the sweetest matches I've seen in a long time (Dimitrov's groin exploding, Monfils stopping mid-rally and winning the rally TWICE, horrible commentating from Jensen, etc.)...it should have ended in a smooch.

Cormorant
08-29-2011, 07:23 PM
I don't know why Dimitrov didn't bestow similar affection on Ferrer in Cincy, does he not respect him or something?

BallzofSkill
08-29-2011, 07:23 PM
that's one of the weirdest things ive seen. when monfils rejected the tongue, they went to a cheek kiss thing that you see only with women. what the heck is with this dmitrov guy.

JoelDali
08-29-2011, 07:24 PM
$20 to whoever posts the first video of that.

LOL

TiberiusGracchus
08-29-2011, 07:24 PM
that's one of the weirdest things ive seen. when monfils rejected the tongue, they went to a cheek kiss thing that you see only with women. what the heck is with this dmitrov guy.

That's common amongst French men, as far as I know (I'm a moran American).

Fedace
08-29-2011, 07:25 PM
I don't know why Dimitrov didn't bestow similar affection on Ferrer in Cincy, does he not respect him or something?

Monfils is much better looking and much better kisser too.:) In Europe, it is ok for guys to show Affection for each other by kissing each other.
We should try this more in USA as well. We might develop deeper more meaningful friendships...................:)

JoelDali
08-29-2011, 07:27 PM
Monfils is much better looking and much better kisser too.:) In Europe, it is ok for guys to show Affection for each other by kissing each other.
We should try this more in USA as well. We might develop deeper more meaningful friendships...................:)

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e237/JoeDali/fedace-dire.jpg

TennisandMusic
08-29-2011, 07:29 PM
Yeah, that was interesting.

rommil
08-29-2011, 07:29 PM
Big deal......... Its a common greeting with Hell's Angels :(

frunk
08-29-2011, 07:29 PM
Shutup Fedace...

Fedace
08-29-2011, 07:32 PM
Joeldeli, in your next match, Kiss your opponent instead of hand shake after the match. I am sure you will find meaningful friendship.

JoelDali
08-29-2011, 07:33 PM
Joeldeli, in your next match, Kiss your opponent instead of hand shake after the match. I am sure you will find meaningful friendship.

I did and we went for drinks after our match and now hes my secret mixed partner for life.

:)

Lemoned
08-29-2011, 07:33 PM
Dimitrov has been training in Paris, so I guess he gets along well with many French players like Monfils, Tsonga (you can see that in the Wimbledon match between these two.) or he simply wanted to do it in French way for the winner. :p

JoelDali
08-29-2011, 07:34 PM
Grigor was totally punking him, but the look on Monfees face was totally priceless.

Comedy Goldmine.

Ballbashing Grinder
08-29-2011, 07:40 PM
Here's a gif of it:

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqpyr2GMbn1qd0dbc.gif

bhallic24
08-29-2011, 07:44 PM
Here's a gif of it:

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqpyr2GMbn1qd0dbc.gif

What can I say, brother likes himself a piece of that dark dark chocolate. :-P

Ico
08-29-2011, 07:45 PM
Here's a gif of it:

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqpyr2GMbn1qd0dbc.gif
I'm a pretty jaded person, but I laughed for a minute straight at that.

aceX
08-29-2011, 07:54 PM
Here's a gif of it:

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqpyr2GMbn1qd0dbc.gif

That's one of the funniest things I've seen for a while!

Fedace
08-29-2011, 08:00 PM
I did and we went for drinks after our match and now hes my secret mixed partner for life.

:)

I am happy for you. but will you still respect me in the morning. ?

Power Player
08-29-2011, 08:01 PM
Joeldeli, in your next match, Kiss your opponent instead of hand shake after the match. I am sure you will find meaningful friendship.

Will you play Tennis And Music since he has asked you to play multiple times and then finish the match by locking lips?

norbac
08-29-2011, 08:02 PM
Dimitrov is GAYTing!

JoelDali
08-29-2011, 08:12 PM
O dear God that gif is GAGOAT.

JoelDali
08-29-2011, 08:15 PM
Imagine if Monfils kissed him back.

Epic youtube history.

LoL

The Djoker
08-29-2011, 08:16 PM
Imagine if Monfils kissed him back.

Epic youtube history.

LoL

I bet he wishes now that he would have done it...

Service Ace
08-29-2011, 08:22 PM
Here's a gif of it:

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqpyr2GMbn1qd0dbc.gif

http://i.imgur.com/yva4K.gif

Mustard
08-29-2011, 08:32 PM
It's a common greeting in Eastern Europe.

Overheadsmash
08-29-2011, 08:33 PM
Maybe it's a Bulgarian thing or something. You know how crazy those eastern Europe guys can be:

http://youtu.be/3bGdQz5Ol3M

norbac
08-29-2011, 08:37 PM
It's a common greeting in Eastern Europe.

Its not the cheek kisses, its the fact that Grigor went for a mouth to mouth kiss....

BeHappy
08-29-2011, 08:38 PM
He must have confused monfils with another french player, gasquet.

I just hope Monfils keeps his wits about him in the showers!

'Haha, did you squirt shampoo on my back again Grigor!?! I already told you I have plenty!'

JoelDali
08-29-2011, 08:41 PM
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqpyr2GMbn1qd0dbc.gif

pvaudio
08-29-2011, 08:41 PM
Dude...ew.

OddJack
08-29-2011, 08:42 PM
Big deal......... Its a common greeting with Hell's Angels :(

It's common among French as well,

These guys havnt seen Simon_Monfils_Tsonga_ at thenet

kishnabe
08-29-2011, 08:50 PM
After a long match....Dimitrov had to feel a bit dousy.....he was aiming for a cheek kiss....but almost missed. Monfils assited him.

It isn't ****! I've been to europe and it is like that with my cousins and the people there. A polite gesture.

TennisandMusic
08-29-2011, 08:54 PM
Will you play Tennis And Music since he has asked you to play multiple times and then finish the match by locking lips?

Well I'm down for the first part but uh...not the second...

bezs
08-29-2011, 09:05 PM
Bromance at is best.

JoelDali
08-29-2011, 09:06 PM
After a long match....Dimitrov had to feel a bit dousy.....he was aiming for a cheek kiss....but almost missed. Monfils assited him.

It isn't ****! I've been to europe and it is like that with my cousins and the people there. A polite gesture.

This isn't an attack on the gaye lifestyle thread or on customs in Europe.

Its a thread that exposes comedy gold on Grigor's part. Its obvious they're good buddies.

Its funny as fuch.

Lsmkenpo
08-29-2011, 09:20 PM
So we have one young player (Harrison) getting lambasted by the board for having a temper after losing, and another (Dimitrov) for trying to kiss another man on the mouth after receiving a straight set loss.

I think I will put my money on the fighter over the lover to have a better career.

TopFH
08-29-2011, 09:55 PM
It was so funny. I was lucky to see it live.

ViscaB
08-29-2011, 10:06 PM
Oops. Kissing in sports in quite common. In Spain it's very normal to see after a substitution or a goal. On the cheek of course...

Subventricular Zone
08-29-2011, 10:16 PM
It was hilarious. Gotta love Europeans.

namelessone
08-29-2011, 10:29 PM
The custom(at least in Eastern Europe) is to kiss on the cheek, not on the mouth. Especially when the parties involved are men :)

DragonBlaze
08-29-2011, 10:32 PM
Obviously Grigor's aim was just a bit off, but it was hilarious nonetheless :D

accidental
08-29-2011, 10:54 PM
Dimitrov did the double cheek kiss thing when he lost to Chardy in Paris

he must be pretty good friends with the french players i think

jokinla
08-29-2011, 10:55 PM
Well Monfils rejected him, but in NYC there are plenty of ladies up late that won't, oh the life of a tennis pro.

asiank90
08-29-2011, 11:08 PM
Full video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbALVTsxqDQ

TennisandMusic
08-29-2011, 11:43 PM
Hey Fedace when ARE we going to play huh?? Balboa Park!

Stevo Karlovic
08-29-2011, 11:50 PM
Dimitrov is seriously pushing Karlovic as my favorite player. That smooch bit proves that he has humility to go along with his star power, maybe even more than Djokovic. We'll see. It will be an enjoyable ride for all tennis fans throughout the years he spends as #1 in the world.

mnm
08-30-2011, 01:14 AM
Its not the cheek kisses, its the fact that Grigor went for a mouth to mouth kiss....

+1 on that.. the cheek thing is as french as it can be.
But, Grigor goes straight for the mouth and there's no comedy about it afterwards, it's so strange :)

Bud
08-30-2011, 01:33 AM
Hey Fedace when ARE we going to play huh?? Balboa Park!

We can do Australian doubles :)

Objective Danny
08-30-2011, 01:49 AM
This video is all the rage on Perez Hilton's website.

MariaRafael
08-30-2011, 01:58 AM
In Europe, it is ok for guys to show Affection for each other by kissing each other.
We should try this more in USA as well. We might develop deeper more meaningful friendships...................:)

No, it's not. But of course San-Diego citizens know better. BTW Monfils with his bulging eyes and tiny head is one of the most ugly guys I've ever seen.

Bud
08-30-2011, 02:26 AM
Common behavior in Eastern European countries

Tursunov and Andreev after their 2006 DC win over the US :wink:

http://i53.tinypic.com/sd2seo.jpg

Magnus
08-30-2011, 03:14 AM
Well, Monfils is french, so Grigor probably tried to go for a french kiss. Hahaha. Funniest gif ever.

Fedace
08-30-2011, 03:56 AM
Hey Fedace when ARE we going to play huh?? Balboa Park!

You just want to kiss me. but i am not from europe and it is not my custom.:)

Fedace
08-30-2011, 03:57 AM
Common behavior in Eastern European countries

Tursunov and Andreev after their 2006 DC win over the US :wink:

http://i53.tinypic.com/sd2seo.jpg

Man,,,,,Kirilenko must be jealous as heck...........

rovex
08-30-2011, 04:43 AM
It's a common greeting in Eastern Europe.

....no.

Dimitrov lives in Paris and with Monfils being French he likely felt inclined to show his respect in an unsually striking way.

Or he had a bet with someone for the purpose of joke.

Magnus
08-30-2011, 04:54 AM
Either way, I doubt Dimitrov is gay (he doesn't look gay), and if he is, there's nothing wrong with that.

Federerx16
08-30-2011, 05:05 AM
That was hot

origmarm
08-30-2011, 05:08 AM
Awesome moment.

Also the first post to make me laugh today, the irony...

That's common amongst French men, as far as I know (I'm a moran American).

sdont
08-30-2011, 05:11 AM
After a long match....Dimitrov had to feel a bit dousy.....he was aiming for a cheek kiss....but almost missed. Monfils assited him.

This.

It happens sometimes, because most people go for the right cheek first, but some go for the left first.

Magnus
08-30-2011, 05:12 AM
This.

It happens sometimes, because most people go for the right cheek first, but some go for the left first.

Nah, he went straight for the mouth lol.

dirtballer
08-30-2011, 05:59 AM
Do you remember Isaiah Thomas and Magic Johnson before games in the NBA?

CocaCola
08-30-2011, 06:08 AM
It's a common greeting in Eastern Europe.

Try that on a random guy in Bulgaria and you'll end up in hospital :)

klementine
08-30-2011, 06:08 AM
I kiss before and after matches.

Like washing my hands before bathroom trips.

klementine
08-30-2011, 06:11 AM
The poles do it 3 times... 3 man kisses.

Everyone else does it twice. I'm always in the same predicament as Monfils when kissing Polish men. It should stop after two.... but no... the Poles like to throw that last one in there.

Fedace
08-30-2011, 06:20 AM
Nah, he went straight for the mouth lol.

That is OK in europe. Guys kiss each other in the lips all the time. It is a Greeting and a nice way of saying HELLO or Nice to see you.

BHud
08-30-2011, 06:45 AM
Awkward...I threw up in my mouth...

SB
08-30-2011, 06:51 AM
The poles do it 3 times... 3 man kisses.


And Swiss.

Fedace
08-30-2011, 06:54 AM
Awkward...I threw up in my mouth...

But wouldn't it be nice if we did this in USA as well ? Guys that is Secure enough with our manliness should not have any problem with this. and it is a Very extra nice way of saying NICE to see you and you are a Good friend. I think we should start doing this in USA as well.
Do we need to go to Congress and start up a "Let's kiss each other more often campaign" ?

Disgruntled Worker
08-30-2011, 07:01 AM
Do you remember Isaiah Thomas and Magic Johnson before games in the NBA?

Isiah and Magic knew each other for a VERY long time before that happened though. You don't just go up to a 6'4" black guy and lock lips. It doesn't work that way!

Fedace
08-30-2011, 07:06 AM
Isiah and Magic knew each other for a VERY long time before that happened though. You don't just go up to a 6'4" black guy and lock lips. It doesn't work that way!

I know, and also it was done more as a joke in front of the camara. It was more of a show. I will bet you if NHL players greeted each other with a kiss before the game, there would be less fights...

Breaker
08-30-2011, 07:08 AM
Americans would never think of doing something so potentially destructive to their sexual orientation they've worked so hard to protect their entire lives.

http://i.imgur.com/rHHJw.gif

timeisonmyside
08-30-2011, 07:32 AM
Oops. Kissing in sports in quite common. In Spain it's very normal to see after a substitution or a goal. On the cheek of course...

Yes. Also see Magic Johnson and Isaiah Thomas.

celoft
08-30-2011, 07:36 AM
Americans would never think of doing something so potentially destructive to their sexual orientation they've worked so hard to protect their entire lives.

http://i.imgur.com/rHHJw.gif

LOL. :lol::lol:

luishcorreia
08-30-2011, 07:38 AM
French people have a tradition to kiss eachother 3 times on the face. Dimitrov is friends with monfils and was truing to show some respect. It just went bad :) He almost got a kiss on his mouth :)

sureshs
08-30-2011, 07:39 AM
Monfils is much better looking and much better kisser too.:) In Europe, it is ok for guys to show Affection for each other by kissing each other.
We should try this more in USA as well. We might develop deeper more meaningful friendships...................:)

I think it will lead to more peace and less war and terrorism.

rovex
08-30-2011, 07:44 AM
French people have a tradition to kiss eachother 3 times on the face.

More often than not it's twice at most except if it's a relative or very good friend.

nethawkwenatchee
08-30-2011, 07:49 AM
Americans would never think of doing something so potentially destructive to their sexual orientation they've worked so hard to protect their entire lives.


We just don't get down like you Euro's :)

Can you imagine him trying that sh** with Roddick or Fish? He'd get bi*** slapped right in front of a welcoming croud :)

Objective Danny
08-30-2011, 07:56 AM
Do you remember Isaiah Thomas and Magic Johnson before games in the NBA?

You dated yourself.

sdont
08-30-2011, 07:59 AM
The poles do it 3 times... 3 man kisses.

Everyone else does it twice. I'm always in the same predicament as Monfils when kissing Polish men. It should stop after two.... but no... the Poles like to throw that last one in there.

In France, depending on the region, it can be 2, 3 or 4.

sdont
08-30-2011, 08:04 AM
More often than not it's twice at most except if it's a relative or very good friend.

In the southeast, 3 times is more common than twice I believe. In the north, 4 times is quite common, especially between family members.

rovex
08-30-2011, 08:21 AM
I think it's silly anything exceeding 3.

2 is sufficient i find.

celoft
08-30-2011, 08:32 AM
Can you imagine him trying that sh** with Roddick or Fish? He'd get bi*** slapped right in front of a welcoming croud :)

Heheehhehehehe.

jaggy
08-30-2011, 09:28 AM
For the San Diego TW posters (multiple meanings in this!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryu6t929X70

Fedace
08-30-2011, 09:30 AM
For the San Diego TW posters (multiple meanings in this!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryu6t929X70

I am not kissing that dude, he is too ugly.

willshot
08-30-2011, 09:43 AM
yucky! lol

fRa
08-30-2011, 09:58 AM
It's like nobody here realizes it's a joke...

Amelie Mauresmo
08-30-2011, 10:00 AM
I think Grigor is totally cute and I think the men on the ATP Tour should be kissing each other more often! The kiss was totally hot but I wish Gael and Grigor kissed on the lips!!!

Fate Archer
08-30-2011, 10:04 AM
Great YAOI material there, indeed.

Fedace
08-30-2011, 10:05 AM
I think Grigor is totally cute and I think the men on the ATP Tour should be kissing each other more often! The kiss was totally hot but I wish Gael and Grigor kissed on the lips!!!

Yea, i am sure if Roddick and Nadal kissed, it should make some headlines..:)

Amelie Mauresmo
08-30-2011, 10:09 AM
Either way, I doubt Dimitrov is gay (he doesn't look gay), and if he is, there's nothing wrong with that.

What a stupid statement? How do you know Dimitrov isn't gay or bisexual? Not all gay men are effeminite you know. Some gay men are masculine. Also, there are gay guys on the ATP Tour but the homophobia on this thread proves some straight men still have a problem with male homosexuality. According to the Kinsey scale there are at least 10 gay men in the ATP Tour top 100.

Crisstti
08-30-2011, 10:13 AM
We just don't get down like you Euro's :)

Can you imagine him trying that sh** with Roddick or Fish? He'd get bi*** slapped right in front of a welcoming croud :)

No, he wouldn't. :|

r2473
08-30-2011, 10:15 AM
Also, there are gay guys on the ATP Tour but the homophobia on this thread proves some straight men still have a problem with male homosexuality. According to the Kinsey scale there are at least 10 gay men in the ATP Tour top 100.

I wonder which 10 are gay? Can you let us in on the secret?

Is there one gay guy in the top 10? Oh ya.......vamos.

Amelie Mauresmo
08-30-2011, 10:22 AM
I wonder which 10 are gay? Can you let us in on the secret?

Is there one gay guy in the top 10? Oh ya.......vamos.

It is common sense and logic but since society is still homophobic particularly against gay male athletes they hide in the closet. We all know who the lesbians are on the WTA Tour such as Billie Jean King, Maria Bueno, Darlene Hard, Helen Jacobs, Alice Marble, Virginia Wade,Navratilova, Mauresmo, Gigi Fernandez, Conchita Martinez, Lisa Raymond, Samantha Stosur, Nicole Pratt, Renee Stubbs, ect.So it is not hard to imagine there must be some gay guys on the ATP Tour. But the negativity is what keeps these gay men in the closet. I think Grigor's and Gael's kiss is refreshing more men should kiss and embrace it.

r2473
08-30-2011, 10:32 AM
I'd be surprised if there are 10 men in the ATP top 100 that are gay. That is not a random group. Do you think 10% of NFL players are gay?

Also, 10% is a ridiculous number. Kinsey certainly seems to have been brought into question:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_sexual_orientation

Anyway, pretty dumb conversation to go along with this topic. Pretty normal thing for these two to do. I think Grigor expected Monfils to turn his head. Just one of those stupid youtube moments.

Mustard
08-30-2011, 11:03 AM
5 pages? It's just a kiss, for a goodness sakes.

Kunohara
08-30-2011, 11:10 AM
Lol that was hilarious.

But I have mixed feelings about the reactions here.

People saying its disgusting are weird, they did not even actually kiss at all, just a quick peck on the cheeks, à la french.

Those that say its HOT are probably trolling as well.

P.S. Its obvious Grigor didnt aim for the lips.

mandy01
08-30-2011, 11:11 AM
It was gross. I don't think Dimitrov intended to kiss him like that but it looks super-horrible.

PAINTJOBLOVERS
08-30-2011, 11:24 AM
a little surprised by the amount of homophobes saying it was gross. From my personal experience tennis is one of the sports with the most open minded people. :shrug:

Amelie Mauresmo
08-30-2011, 11:27 AM
I think it is really refreshing that Grigor wanted to kiss Gael despite losing the match it shows good sportmanship. The homophobia on this thread is disappointing but surpring.

Larrysümmers
08-30-2011, 11:27 AM
It was gross. I don't think Dimitrov intended to kiss him like that but it looks super-horrible.

no, walking into a bathroom at a restaurant to find a dad whipping their infants *** right by the sink is gross...it looked like the regular kiss cheeking they do, but some miss calculations on where Gael's cheeks were caused an awkward moment.

Fedace
08-30-2011, 11:29 AM
Lol that was hilarious.

But I have mixed feelings about the reactions here.

People saying its disgusting are weird, they did not even actually kiss at all, just a quick peck on the cheeks, à la french.

Those that say its HOT are probably trolling as well.

P.S. Its obvious Grigor didnt aim for the lips.

Grigor was aiming for the mouth or lips. Not in a romantic way but Buddie buddie way of Kissing. WE don't do it here in the states so we find that schocking but no big deal in Europe.
I will petition Congress to pass this activity as a HEALTH iniative. Scientific studies have shown that Kissing and showing affection in a friendly way in Either sex will allow you to Live longer and Healthier lives.

Power Player
08-30-2011, 11:46 AM
Well I'm down for the first part but uh...not the second...

LOL...Fedace is scurred of the power of Cortex. He has not acknowledged this challenge but has responded to multiple others here.


Interesting. I thought he may be able to play you those Genesis Voicemails as well..lol.

Amelie Mauresmo
08-30-2011, 12:07 PM
I think Grigor was just trying to be sincere he lost the match but he was just trying to be professional about it. I don't know why some men are so afraid of men being close or having empathy for each other?

sureshs
08-30-2011, 12:09 PM
He might have mistaken Monfils for a female

TennisandMusic
08-30-2011, 12:14 PM
LOL...Fedace is scurred of the power of Cortex. He has not acknowledged this challenge but has responded to multiple others here.


Interesting. I thought he may be able to play you those Genesis Voicemails as well..lol.

I know right? What's weird is I just want to hit and chill out a bit at the club. Dunno what the big deal is, I've hit with a couple other guys on here.

DRII
08-30-2011, 12:18 PM
I think it will lead to more peace and less war and terrorism.

Uhm, guess I'll add to some of the gross generalization in this thread...

Don't Arabs and middle-eastern men show affection like this towards each other. Doesn't really fit with your hypothesis...

sureshs
08-30-2011, 12:24 PM
Uhm, guess I'll add to some of the gross generalization in this thread...

Don't Arabs and middle-eastern men show affection like this towards each other. Doesn't really fit with your hypothesis...

Yes they do. They need to do it with men all over the world.

Kunohara
08-30-2011, 12:31 PM
Grigor was aiming for the mouth or lips. Not in a romantic way but Buddie buddie way of Kissing. WE don't do it here in the states so we find that schocking but no big deal in Europe.
I will petition Congress to pass this activity as a HEALTH iniative. Scientific studies have shown that Kissing and showing affection in a friendly way in Either sex will allow you to Live longer and Healthier lives.

Yea... No.

DRII
08-30-2011, 12:36 PM
Yes they do. They need to do it with men all over the world.

So, where's all the peace and no terrorism then?

nethawkwenatchee
08-30-2011, 12:36 PM
No, he wouldn't. :|

Mine was more of a reaction to the anti American trolls on this thread. I could care less about yesterdays kiss but idiots still have to bring into question "American" people and our lack of open mindedness...

These questioners are idiots. Grigor and Monfils are cool cats and can kiss all they want. Personally I don't see the Roddick's or Fish's caring one way or the other either but they wouldn't partake.

fRa
08-30-2011, 12:58 PM
Grigor was aiming for the mouth or lips. Not in a romantic way but Buddie buddie way of Kissing. WE don't do it here in the states so we find that schocking but no big deal in Europe.
I will petition Congress to pass this activity as a HEALTH iniative. Scientific studies have shown that Kissing and showing affection in a friendly way in Either sex will allow you to Live longer and Healthier lives.

Lol... You are terribly wrong. No frenchman does such thing. The aiming for the lips was a joke - it was an ironic gesture. The only "buddie buddie" thing was the cheek kissing. Lip kissing amongst male friends is in no way a common gesture.

Gorecki
08-30-2011, 01:00 PM
Mine was more of a reaction to the anti American trolls on this thread. I could care less about yesterdays kiss but idiots still have to bring into question "American" people and our lack of open mindedness...

These questioners are idiots. Grigor and Monfils are cool cats and can kiss all they want. Personally I don't see the Roddick's or Fish's caring one way or the other either but they wouldn't partake.

so you have no problem with those idiots who brought the whole "it's a european thing... they are very gay" comments...

but somehow the reactions to such provocations are not ok in your book!!!!

nice touch there!

Gorecki
08-30-2011, 01:06 PM
That's common amongst French men, as far as I know (I'm a moran American).

Monfils is much better looking and much better kisser too.:) In Europe, it is ok for guys to show Affection for each other by kissing each other.
We should try this more in USA as well. We might develop deeper more meaningful friendships...................:)

Dimitrov has been training in Paris, so I guess he gets along well with many French players like Monfils, Tsonga (you can see that in the Wimbledon match between these two.) or he simply wanted to do it in French way for the winner. :p

Maybe it's a Bulgarian thing or something. You know how crazy those eastern Europe guys can be:

http://youtu.be/3bGdQz5Ol3M

It's common among French as well,

These guys havnt seen Simon_Monfils_Tsonga_ at thenet

After a long match....Dimitrov had to feel a bit dousy.....he was aiming for a cheek kiss....but almost missed. Monfils assited him.

It isn't ****! I've been to europe and it is like that with my cousins and the people there. A polite gesture.

This isn't an attack on the gaye lifestyle thread or on customs in Europe.

Its a thread that exposes comedy gold on Grigor's part. Its obvious they're good buddies.

Its funny as fuch.

and this was just in the two first pages, yet Mr American Klan Hawk here thinks he has anything to say about one or two posts that criticized Americans!!!

CCNM
08-30-2011, 01:55 PM
Do you remember Isaiah Thomas and Magic Johnson before games in the NBA?
Yes! That's exactly what I was thinking when I saw the GIF. I bet the crowd got a big kick out of it. :lol:

Magnus
08-30-2011, 02:28 PM
What a stupid statement? How do you know Dimitrov isn't gay or bisexual? Not all gay men are effeminite you know. Some gay men are masculine. Also, there are gay guys on the ATP Tour but the homophobia on this thread proves some straight men still have a problem with male homosexuality. According to the Kinsey scale there are at least 10 gay men in the ATP Tour top 100.

Huh? I said there was nothing wrong about being gay, so where's the homophobia? Gay men are feminine, there are scientific articles about it. Not all of them are, but most of them.

Sid_Vicious
08-30-2011, 02:41 PM
What a stupid statement? How do you know Dimitrov isn't gay or bisexual? Not all gay men are effeminite you know. Some gay men are masculine. Also, there are gay guys on the ATP Tour but the homophobia on this thread proves some straight men still have a problem with male homosexuality. According to the Kinsey scale there are at least 10 gay men in the ATP Tour top 100.

I did not realize that the Kinsey studies were done on the ATP world tour. :lol: :lol:

The Kinsey report's findings are hardly gospel.

kanamit
08-30-2011, 02:43 PM
Huh? I said there was nothing wrong about being gay, so where's the homophobia? Gay men are feminine, there are scientific articles about it. Not all of them are, but most of them.

This is idiotic. This implies an agreed upon scientific definition of what being "gay" means (does having occasional homosexual fantasies make a person gay? what about acting on them occasionally while maintaining a long-term heterosexual relationship?), and also implies an even more dubious definition of what being "feminine" means. Wearing lipstick and nail polish? Having a higher-pitched voice? Less facial hair?

JoelDali
08-30-2011, 02:56 PM
5 pages? It's just a kiss, for a goodness sakes.

My threads are Epic.

Also, set your options to show more poasts per page, and you'll only get 2 pages.

Little trick you should know about old timer.

:D

Magnus
08-30-2011, 03:01 PM
This is idiotic. This implies an agreed upon scientific definition of what being "gay" means (does having occasional homosexual fantasies make a person gay? what about acting on them occasionally while maintaining a long-term heterosexual relationship?), and also implies an even more dubious definition of what being "feminine" means. Wearing lipstick and nail polish? Having a higher-pitched voice? Less facial hair?

But that's exactly what being feminine means, along other stuff. Gay men usually aren't interested in sports, they like art better. Look at fashion designers for instance, so many of them are gay. Hair designers - same thing. Now look at how many soccer players are gay? not many. Football? Basketball? Tennis?

Again, this is percentage. Every rule has an exception to the rule, and I'm sure many gay men are interested in sports and could care less about clothing, but in general, and this is backed by science, gay men are more feminine.

kanamit
08-30-2011, 03:05 PM
But that's exactly what being feminine means, along other stuff. Gay men usually aren't interested in sports, they like art better. Look at fashion designers for instance, so many of them are gay. Hair designers - same thing. Now look at how many soccer players are gay? not many. Football? Basketball? Tennis?

Again, this is percentage. Every rule has an exception to the rule, and I'm sure many gay men are interested in sports and could care less about clothing, but in general, and this is backed by science, gay men are more feminine.

Laugh. Yes, wearing lipstick and nail polish is a scientific definition of being feminine. Wow.

Magnus
08-30-2011, 03:08 PM
Laugh. Yes, wearing lipstick and nail polish is a scientific definition of being feminine. Wow.

There are plenty of scientific articles about gay men. This isn't just a sexual orientation, its their behavior, and heck, its even physical in most cases. If you want to call playing barbies manly, go ahead, I seriously do not care.

MichaelNadal
08-30-2011, 03:09 PM
Just got off work and checked that gif out, LOL, Monfils is like wtf?

sansaephanh
08-30-2011, 03:09 PM
Lol You guys suck. I kiss men all day.

*TROLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL*

Dilettante
08-30-2011, 03:11 PM
in general, and this is backed by science, gay men are more feminine.

Not at all. You should read more science.

And well,learn more about the real world.

sureshs
08-30-2011, 03:17 PM
Gay men are feminine, there are scientific articles about it. Not all of them are, but most of them.

That is only the other half of them. And even then many do not fit. Many of them went undiscovered till they were outed or outed themselves.

kanamit
08-30-2011, 03:32 PM
There are plenty of scientific articles about gay men. This isn't just a sexual orientation, its their behavior, and heck, its even physical in most cases. If you want to call playing barbies manly, go ahead, I seriously do not care.

I am well versed in sexuality studies. Give me the citation of a single article from an academic, peer-reviewed source that claims to have data showing that gay men are more "feminine." Even the gay gene studies are highly controversial (including among self-identified gay people). Most of it is politically charged junk science that makes the mistaken assumption that if homosexuality were genetically caused, then the case for gay rights is more difficult to reject.

Amelie Mauresmo
08-30-2011, 06:54 PM
There are plenty of masculine gay men out there they tend to not be as noticed. There was a British rugby player he came out last year and he is very masculine. The German media have talked about the men's soccer team having many gay male players.

jerriy
08-30-2011, 08:34 PM
There are plenty of masculine gay men out there they tend to not be as noticed. There was a British rugby player he came out last year and he is very masculine. The German media have talked about the men's soccer team having many gay male players.Garbage.

Homosexuals love inflating their numbers to boost their relevance. Their liberal media-friends are always eager to deliver their unscientific claptrap full of cooked up stats alleging that they comprise 10 to 15 % of the general population while in reality it's 1% max and that includes all their varieties (the bi's and the shemales and the hermaphrodites and the whathaveyous)
.

Atherton2003
08-30-2011, 08:41 PM
someone tried to kiss Monfils?

rossi46
08-30-2011, 09:00 PM
Garbage.

Homosexuals love inflating their numbers to boost their relevance. Their liberal media-friends are always eager to deliver their unscientific claptrap full of cooked up stats alleging that they comprise 10 to 15 % of the general population while in reality it's 1% max and that includes all their varieties (the bi's and the shemales and the hermaphrodites and the whathaveyous)
.

That is brilliant

Mustard
08-30-2011, 09:04 PM
Garbage.

Homosexuals love inflating their numbers to boost their relevance. Their liberal media-friends are always eager to deliver their unscientific claptrap full of cooked up stats alleging that they comprise 10 to 15 % of the general population while in reality it's 1% max and that includes all their varieties (the bi's and the shemales and the hermaphrodites and the whathaveyous)
.

Been reading the lies of right-wing newspapers? And even if what you said was true, right-wing logic that says fewer LGBT people = the right to discriminate, stands condemned and exposed for all to see.

cc0509
08-30-2011, 09:20 PM
Magnus;5943283]Huh? I said there was nothing wrong about being gay, so where's the homophobia? Gay men are feminine, there are scientific articles about it. Not all of them are, but most of them.[/


That is a ridiculous statement. Did Rock Hudson look feminine to you?

You can't always tell who is gay and who is not by appearance. There are plenty of gay men who don't look or act feminine at all. Your statement is right out of the 18th century or something and very inaccurate.

AM95
08-30-2011, 09:23 PM
totally confused by this. grigor has stated he has a girlfriend..

cc0509
08-30-2011, 09:23 PM
Originally Posted by Amelie Mauresmo
What a stupid statement? How do you know Dimitrov isn't gay or bisexual? Not all gay men are effeminite you know. Some gay men are masculine. Also, there are gay guys on the ATP Tour but the homophobia on this thread proves some straight men still have a problem with male homosexuality. According to the Kinsey scale there are at least 10 gay men in the ATP Tour top 100.

There are definitely gay men in the ATP top 100. They are just in the closet.

cc0509
08-30-2011, 09:24 PM
totally confused by this. grigor has stated he has a girlfriend..

Not saying Grigor is gay because I have no clue, but having a girlfriend or wife does not mean a guy is not gay.

rossi46
08-30-2011, 09:34 PM
That is a ridiculous statement. Did Rock Hudson look feminine to you?

You can't always tell who is gay and who is not by appearance. There are plenty of gay men who don't look or act feminine at all. Your statement is right out of the 18th century or something and very inaccurate.

True but Rock Hudson is only one "man", still hard to believe he was a bowel prowler. But it's pretty obvious to everyone that most of them are more on the feminine side.

I live in Sydney which unfortunately is the ring stinging capital of the world and they are very easy to spot because of their feminine tendencies, it's just the way it is.

Sentinel
08-30-2011, 09:35 PM
He must have confused monfils with another french player, gasquet.
'
LOL
Its not the cheek kisses, its the fact that Grigor went for a mouth to mouth kiss....
That's it. I am never visiting Europe !

cc0509
08-30-2011, 09:37 PM
True but Rock Hudson is only one "man", still hard to believe he was a bowel prowler. But it's pretty obvious to everyone that most of them are more on the feminine side.

I live in Sydney which unfortunately is the ring stinging capital of the world and they are very easy to spot because of their feminine tendencies, it's just the way it is.

While many gays are feminine just as many are not. You have no idea what you are talking about. Do you think Rock Hudson is the only masculine looking actor? There are so many actors in Hollywood who are gay or bisexual. All closeted. Same in pro sports. People you would never suspect by looking at them.

Sentinel
08-30-2011, 09:39 PM
Huh? I said there was nothing wrong about being gay, so where's the homophobia? Gay men are feminine, there are scientific articles about it. Not all of them are, but most of them.
Are there feminine men who are not gay ? Guys who use beauty products, wax their bodies, use perfume but are still hetero?

cc0509
08-30-2011, 09:39 PM
I did not realize that the Kinsey studies were done on the ATP world tour. :lol: :lol:

The Kinsey report's findings are hardly gospel.

Kinsey was a nut, but, for sure there are gays in the ATP top 100.

rossi46
08-30-2011, 09:47 PM
Are there feminine men who are not gay ? Guys who use beauty products, wax their bodies, use perfume but are still hetero?

I think what Magnus was trying to say was the way they walk, talk, mannersisms etc. Just because they use hair care products etc doesn't mean they like sausage.

nethawkwenatchee
08-30-2011, 10:23 PM
and this was just in the two first pages, yet Mr American Klan Hawk here thinks he has anything to say about one or two posts that criticized Americans!!!

OK. It's one thing to take exception to posts, media outlets, "Gorecki's" :) who bash the the "American" collectively.

It's an entirely different snake to associate users (you referenced many of my compatriot's... see post (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=5943103&postcount=118) and throw words like "Klan" into the mix :>

Yes, it's a bit mean spirited to hound this kiss situation... These guys are great competitors, anything but "feminine"... true showman, and world class athletes!

Lets let this dog lye still... shall we?

Bud
08-30-2011, 10:27 PM
True but Rock Hudson is only one "man", still hard to believe he was a bowel prowler. But it's pretty obvious to everyone that most of them are more on the feminine side.

I live in Sydney which unfortunately is the ring stinging capital of the world and they are very easy to spot because of their feminine tendencies, it's just the way it is.

You're certainly hip to gay lingo ;)

But... I'm sure you're straight as an arrow :roll:

JasonPlaysTennis
08-30-2011, 10:31 PM
Here's a gif of it:

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqpyr2GMbn1qd0dbc.gif

I KNEWWW grigor was gay, I KNEW IT!!!

rossi46
08-30-2011, 10:47 PM
You're certainly hip to gay lingo ;)

But... I'm sure you're straight as an arrow :roll:

Very straight mate, in Australia we have many ways to describe them.

jerriy
08-30-2011, 10:52 PM
You're certainly hip to gay lingo ;)

But... I'm sure you're straight as an arrow :roll:Wat about you Bud, how do YOU know that it was a gay lingo? :lol:
.

Magnus
08-30-2011, 11:03 PM
I am well versed in sexuality studies. Give me the citation of a single article from an academic, peer-reviewed source that claims to have data showing that gay men are more "feminine." Even the gay gene studies are highly controversial (including among self-identified gay people). Most of it is politically charged junk science that makes the mistaken assumption that if homosexuality were genetically caused, then the case for gay rights is more difficult to reject.

Sure thing.

There is a study about gay men having their hand fingers more like women hands. This is caused byshortage of male hormons. Also, their hair direction is different and they have more feminine voice. Those are physical diferrences between gay and straight men. I will find you the article and link it to you, give me some time.

Also, many gay men admit they do not feel like real men, and it bothers many of them. Is it genetic? Envoirment? Both? Nobody knows for sure, but gay men ARE different. And unlike what many say, I don't think there are many feminine straight men.

Look, this isn't in the purpose to bash anyone, every person has a right to live the way that makes him happy. It'd actually be nice if there were more gay men in sports just to eliminate the stigma, but, well, there aren't many. Are there gay tennis fans around here?

namelessone
08-30-2011, 11:40 PM
totally confused by this. grigor has stated he has a girlfriend..

Maybe he would like a boyfriend as well.

LAWL.

origmarm
08-31-2011, 01:02 AM
Been reading the lies of right-wing newspapers? And even if what you said was true, right-wing logic that says fewer LGBT people = the right to discriminate, stands condemned and exposed for all to see.

Actually there was an article in the Guardian (left wing UK newspaper) last month that said that the 10% number was likely grossly inflated and probably closer to 5-8%. This from a paper that previously argued (some 5-6yrs ago) that we were underepresenting this minority. This seems to be the middle ground between some that claim 1-2% (also apparently likely using flawed methods) and those that claim 10% so it feels reasonable.

It was an interesting article actually, rare to see a newspaper in particular publish a "hands up, we got the maths wrong" type piece. I believe one of the national statistical bodies reviewed the data that in least in the UK was the basis for a 10% claim and found some glaring error though I can't remember it in detail. I believe the Kinsey study was also found to be flawed in several ways.

Still as you rightly point out, it doesn't actually mean anything, other than that there are probably fewer homosexuals that was initially thought. There is a nasty school of thought that says that you can deny rights to minorities that you don't like which unfortunately seems to have adopted this number as some kind of crusade.

fRa
08-31-2011, 01:58 AM
How is it that this thread has gone from misconceiving an OBVIOUS JOKE to debating about homophobia/anti-homophobia and to the usual insecure conversation of I'm-not-gay-but-you-are, LoL !

It's amazing to see how many ignorant posters there are.

sdont
08-31-2011, 02:56 AM
That's it. I am never visiting Europe !

What, you guys don't kiss each other? I saw Indian men holding hands in the street like lovers do here? ;)

tusharlovesrafa
08-31-2011, 03:01 AM
What, you guys don't kiss each other? I saw Indian men holding hands in the street like lovers do here? ;)

Me and my best friend have even slept together..Senti...time has changed ...gotta grow up..:)

Sentinel
08-31-2011, 04:23 AM
Me and my best friend have even slept together..Senti...time has changed ...gotta grow up..:)
Some doors and passages are one-way you know. "Exit only". "No entry". Ever seen 'em ? :)

You be happy whichever way you want to, son. Be yourself.

tusharlovesrafa
08-31-2011, 04:38 AM
Some doors and passages are one-way you know. "Exit only". "No entry". Ever seen 'em ? :)

You be happy whichever way you want to, son. Be yourself.

haaaa...i am kinda confused by your hyper sarcasm...
Yeh i am trying to br happy...but it's a process...i have taken few so stupid decisions which have hurt my self..

Colin
08-31-2011, 04:44 AM
Are there gay tennis fans around here?

* Raises limp-wristed sparkly-nail-polish-decorated hand *

Um, yeah, this thread is hilarious and depressing in equal measures with its abundance of misconceptions, so I'm going to set a few things gay. (I would use another word, but I don't like to use the terminology of my evil hetero oppressors.)

For every rainbow-swathed gay with skinny jeans, Lady Gaga on his pink iPod and a yapping purse dog, there are two or three who are deceptively masculine, or just your "average" guy. Hey, I prefer U2 and khakis, and if I were to possess a canine, I can assure you it would be most imposing in build. But I'm not overcompensatingly masculine: I don't watch football. I go for tennis, but what are you going to do? :oops:

As far as gays vis-a-vis the general population, I think I am in a unique position — cue unsavory erotic innuendo from the gent with seemingly intimate knowledge of Sydney's "bowel prowlers" (I'm going to have to steal that term, as I have never heard it, though one of my straight buddies likes to endearingly misspell my name Colon — that would be a gastrointestinal reference, not a grammatical one, hinting not at my love of diction but my love of, well ...) — to address this topic. Let's just say over the past decade or so I have befriended many closeted straight men. It would shock you that some of these men like other men; I know it shocked me. Some are just shame-filled and in hiding; some are bi and happy to be with women most of the time and hook up with men on the side; some are curious; some just want quick action without having to deal with female drama. Again, you'd be surprised with the numbers on the last one. (Thank you, ladies, for playing hard to get.)

How does this translate to the ATP? Well, the top 100-200 is a big enough group to ensure that at least a few are more inclined to dream of Djokovic than Ivanovic. What I can't believe is that some people would think it would be Dimitrov just because of that kiss. Really? Think about it. If you were deep in the closet, would you be trying to lock lips with another male player on a huge stage in front of the camera and the millions watching (though I may be optimistic with the ratings)? No, you really need to look at the guys who try to amp up their hetero persona. Perhaps they even make digs at gays to throw people off.

Unfortunately, if you look at all the political closet cases who have been exposed (in so many ways) in recent years, it's a common maneuver to try to avert suspicion by attacking what you truly are. Of course, a little self-hatred plays into it, as well. Hate yourself before others can hate you. I just don't get why the tour doesn't have a more welcoming and inclusive vibe about it. Why do players feel they can't be open at the Open?

You sadly expect stupidity and homophobia from many of the world's most popular sports and the people who watch them. But I expect more of tennis — and of tennis fans.

Magnus
08-31-2011, 05:14 AM
* Raises limp-wristed sparkly-nail-polish-decorated hand *

Um, yeah, this thread is hilarious and depressing in equal measures with its abundance of misconceptions, so I'm going to set a few things gay. (I would use another word, but I don't like to use the terminology of my evil hetero oppressors.)

For every rainbow-swathed gay with skinny jeans, Lady Gaga on his pink iPod and a yapping purse dog, there are two or three who are deceptively masculine, or just your "average" guy. Hey, I prefer U2 and khakis, and if I were to possess a canine, I can assure you it would be most imposing in build. But I'm not overcompensatingly masculine: I don't watch football. I go for tennis, but what are you going to do? :oops:

As far as gays vis-a-vis the general population, I think I am in a unique position — cue unsavory erotic innuendo from the gent with seemingly intimate knowledge of Sydney's "bowel prowlers" (I'm going to have to steal that term, as I have never heard it, though one of my straight buddies likes to endearingly misspell my name Colon — that would be a gastrointestinal reference, not a grammatical one, hinting not at my love of diction but my love of, well ...) — to address this topic. Let's just say over the past decade or so I have befriended many closeted straight men. It would shock you that some of these men like other men; I know it shocked me. Some are just shame-filled and in hiding; some are bi and happy to be with women most of the time and hook up with men on the side; some are curious; some just want quick action without having to deal with female drama. Again, you'd be surprised with the numbers on the last one. (Thank you, ladies, for playing hard to get.)

How does this translate to the ATP? Well, the top 100-200 is a big enough group to ensure that at least a few are more inclined to dream of Djokovic than Ivanovic. What I can't believe is that some people would think it would be Dimitrov just because of that kiss. Really? Think about it. If you were deep in the closet, would you be trying to lock lips with another male player on a huge stage in front of the camera and the millions watching (though I may be optimistic with the ratings)? No, you really need to look at the guys who try to amp up their hetero persona. Perhaps they even make digs at gays to throw people off.

Unfortunately, if you look at all the political closet cases who have been exposed (in so many ways) in recent years, it's a common maneuver to try to avert suspicion by attacking what you truly are. Of course, a little self-hatred plays into it, as well. Hate yourself before others can hate you. I just don't get why the tour doesn't have a more welcoming and inclusive vibe about it. Why do players feel they can't be open at the Open?

You sadly expect stupidity and homophobia from many of the world's most popular sports and the people who watch them. But I expect more of tennis — and of tennis fans.

Why do they need to expose it? Is it relevant to the sport? Being open at the Open? Why? Their tennis is relevant, and nothing more. I don't really care what Dimitrov does in bed. I didn't even know Sam Stosur was gay until someone here posted it (and I couldn't care less), I just thought she has a killer forehand and a crap backhand. I do love how Sharapove looks, as well as some others like Ivanoivc and Dementieva, but aside of that I know nothing about them.

Do the straight players share their passions and relatioship to us? Heck, Fed is my favorite player and the only thing I know is that he has two daughters and Mirka as his wife. I don't know, and don't want to know, anything else. I have my own life for that, thanks very much.

15_ounce
08-31-2011, 05:24 AM
If you look carefully at the gif image, grigor was trying to kiss Monfils' upper left cheek or even Monfils' left eye but Monfils moved his face away slightly so Grigor has to do it again (for the left cheek)

Colin
08-31-2011, 05:59 AM
Why do they need to expose it? Is it relevant to the sport? Being open at the Open? Why? Their tennis is relevant, and nothing more. I don't really care what Dimitrov does in bed. I didn't even know Sam Stosur was gay until someone here posted it (and I couldn't care less), I just thought she has a killer forehand and a crap backhand. I do love how Sharapove looks, as well as some others like Ivanoivc and Dementieva, but aside of that I know nothing about them.

Do the straight players share their passions and relatioship to us? Heck, Fed is my favorite player and the only thing I know is that he has two daughters and Mirka as his wife. I don't know, and don't want to know, anything else. I have my own life for that, thanks very much.

Like our favorite player trying to close out the first set of his opening match, you make one excellent point surrounded by a flurry of embarrassing errors. :)

I agree that sexual orientation doesn't matter on the court and that you can certainly enjoy a match without knowing a thing about a player's personal life.

But off the court, we have to realize players are personalities, too. They're getting paid to win the match, but they're getting paid more importantly because people want to watch them win the match. Fans watch the matches not only because they love the game, but because they become personally invested in their favorite players and will inevitably want to know some basic information about those players' lives.

I'm not saying we should create a reality show on VH1 with a camera crew following Dimitrov into the locker room at a grand slam as he tries to flirt and French-kiss his way through the seeded players — though I'm sure I'd set my DVR, and "Seeded at the Slam" would make a great title — but do allow a culture in which gay male tennis players are allowed the option of being open in all facets of their lives. It's not just a coincidence that a poster was able to list a dozen lesbian players, yet we can't name a single current one. In fact, the only notable one I can think of (Bill Tilden) died back in 1953.

The players shouldn't feel like they have to come out. But they should feel like they can. You asked me, I gather rhetorically but I'll answer nonetheless, what straight players share about their passions and personal lives. Well, we know Novak likes to have sex with his girlfriend (he told the commentators so after a particularly satisfying win last year at the U.S. Open). We know that Rafa was getting cozy with pop stars in their videos and that Roddick landed a swimsuit model. We know that Mardy Fish's wife had to share his special diet. And, in the example you cite here, we know that Federer has a wife and kids.

I just want the same for the gay players on tour.

Gorecki
08-31-2011, 06:09 AM
OK. It's one thing to take exception to posts, media outlets, "Gorecki's" :) who bash the the "American" collectively.

It's an entirely different snake to associate users (you referenced many of my compatriot's... see post (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=5943103&postcount=118) and throw words like "Klan" into the mix :>

Yes, it's a bit mean spirited to hound this kiss situation... These guys are great competitors, anything but "feminine"... true showman, and world class athletes!

Lets let this dog lye still... shall we?

oh i'm fine with that. actually i have no fuss with none of the social issues that are subliminaly being debated here.

but i am surprised to see so much slurr being used against americans, europeans, french, eastern eurepeans and homosexuals based on one incident that must have happened to most of us several times in life.

FYI, being European (Portuguese born of Canadian descent) i absolutely love America (including USA) so, i have no problem with that. the klan thing was sort of a way to make you notice what you did there was nothing short of xenophobia, since all the initial criticism was direct to being "european". much like all those who described the episode as being gross, awkwards, vomit inducing... i.e. Klanesque...

Walenty
08-31-2011, 06:36 AM
Stay classy TT forum




/sarcasm

luishcorreia
08-31-2011, 07:23 AM
More often than not it's twice at most except if it's a relative or very good friend.

I stand corrected.. :)

luishcorreia
08-31-2011, 07:26 AM
We just don't get down like you Euro's :)

Can you imagine him trying that sh** with Roddick or Fish? He'd get bi*** slapped right in front of a welcoming croud :)

Yeah...Euro's are kinky that way!

WE GET DOWN :)

luishcorreia
08-31-2011, 07:28 AM
oh i'm fine with that. actually i have no fuss with none of the social issues that are subliminaly being debated here.

but i am surprised to see so many slurr being used against americans, europeans, french, eastern eurepeans and homosexuals based on one incident that must have happened to most of us several times in life.

FYI, being European (Portuguese born of Canadian descent) i absolutely love America (including USA) so, i have no problem with that. the klan thing was sort of a way to make you notice what you did there was nothing short of xenophobia, since all the initial criticism was direct to being "european". much like all those who described the episode as being gross, awkwards, vomit inducing... i.e. Klanesque...

Portuguese here too born in the Azores... also with family in Toronto! Respect! :)

syc23
08-31-2011, 07:31 AM
It was just a misplaced kiss on the cheek. It's not as if Grigor try slip his _ _ _ _ up Monfils' _ _ _ _ .

But is was quite amusing :) Pure comedy gold. Lighten up people!

Now if Dimitrov served like this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YT714mG17bA

Kunohara
08-31-2011, 07:38 AM
It was just a misplaced kiss on the cheek. It's not as if Grigor try slip his _ _ _ _ up Monfils' _ _ _ _ .

But is was quite amusing :) Pure comedy gold. Lighten up people!

Now if Dimitrov served like this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YT714mG17bA

Hahahah like woah !

Not sure if serious though !

Gorecki
08-31-2011, 07:51 AM
Portuguese here too born in the Azores... also with family in Toronto! Respect! :)

like

10 tugas

kishnabe
08-31-2011, 08:01 AM
LOL Seriously......I can't believe TT can go that far.

DRII
08-31-2011, 08:52 AM
Very straight mate, in Australia we have many ways to describe them.

Nothing like so good old Aussie male insecurity...

Limpinhitter
08-31-2011, 09:12 AM
http://i.imgur.com/yva4K.gif

BLAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA . . . HELP . . . BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA . . . CRAMP . . . BAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA . . .

Ahhhhhh . . . !

OMG, that's so effing funny! Post of the month! Sweet mother of pearl, I have to learn how to post pics like that!

Limpinhitter
08-31-2011, 09:16 AM
He must have confused monfils with another french player, gasquet.

I just hope Monfils keeps his wits about him in the showers!

'Haha, did you squirt shampoo on my back again Grigor!?! I already told you I have plenty!'

BAHAHAHAHAHAHA . . . HELP . . . BAHAHAHAHAHAHA . . . SOMEBODY CALL 911 . . . BAHAHAHA . . . PLEASE . . .

Limpinhitter
08-31-2011, 09:18 AM
Duplicate!

nothingfails
08-31-2011, 12:48 PM
Either way, I doubt Dimitrov is gay (he doesn't look gay), and if he is, there's nothing wrong with that.

Wow that's so offensive, you live so in the past grand'pa. Do rugby players "look gay" ? :-?

Anyway the kiss is fun and endearing, Dimitrov is cute. He already kissed Jeremy Chardy at this year's FO. Now come on Rafa&Roger, just do it !

JoelDali
08-31-2011, 12:50 PM
I would kiss Rogi but not Grigor.

:(

himynameisNIKE
08-31-2011, 12:52 PM
its definitely a European thing. I gave my Swiss coach a christmas present and he kissed me on the cheek. at first i was a bit shocked, but it was a friendly gesture so i didn't make a big deal out of it. You guys are way overreacting.

nothingfails
08-31-2011, 01:05 PM
its definitely a European thing. I gave my Swiss coach a christmas present and he kissed me on the cheek. at first i was a bit shocked, but it was a friendly gesture so i didn't make a big deal out of it. You guys are way overreacting.

But usually sportsmen don't kiss. You know they have to keep a so-called manly image. So go Grigor !

spillai
08-31-2011, 01:11 PM
That was so funny....Monfils looked suprised

Amelie Mauresmo
08-31-2011, 01:20 PM
It is funny when some people suggest the sexual orientation of a tennis player doesn't matter yet the media ALWAYS make sure everyone knows who the straight guys on the ATP Tour are dating. Male homosexuality is treated as inferior and as a private matter due to homophobia when male homosexuality in pro tennis should be public. I can name over 12 WTA lesbian tennis players but hardly any gay men. The gay men on the ATP Tour are in the closet due to homophobic tennis fans and the media. Justin Gimelstob has made homophobic comments and so has Brad Gilbert. I am watching ESPN right now and of course McEnroe and the other commentator pointed out Kim Sears is Andy Murray's girlfriend. We know Federer is married and Djokovic has a girlfriend too. The heterosexuality of these men are never questioned. However, male homosexuality is viewed with contempt and a lot of hostility. I think it is time in 2011 for the gay or bisexual men on the ATP Tour to come out just like their lesbian counterparts on the WTA. Someone has to take the first step just like Martina and Billie Jean did in the 1980s their struggle allowed Mauresmo in the 1990s to maintain all her endorsements. It is called progression.

Limpinhitter
08-31-2011, 01:32 PM
It is funny when some people suggest the sexual orientation of a tennis player doesn't matter yet the media ALWAYS make sure everyone knows who the straight guys on the ATP Tour are dating. Male homosexuality is treated as inferior and as a private matter due to homophobia when male homosexuality in pro tennis should be public. I can name over 12 WTA lesbian tennis players but hardly any gay men. The gay men on the ATP Tour are in the closet due to homophobic tennis fans and the media. Justin Gimelstob has made homophobic comments and so has Brad Gilbert. I am watching ESPN right now and of course McEnroe and the other commentator pointed out Kim Sears is Andy Murray's girlfriend. We know Federer is married and Djokovic has a girlfriend too. The heterosexuality of these men are never questioned. However, male homosexuality is viewed with contempt and a lot of hostility. I think it is time in 2011 for the gay or bisexual men on the ATP Tour to come out just like their lesbian counterparts on the WTA. Someone has to take the first step just like Martina and Billie Jean did in the 1980s their struggle allowed Mauresmo in the 1990s to maintain all her endorsements. It is called progression.

Really! Where's the next Bill Tilden and Gottfried von Cramm when you need them! Other than them, I'm not aware of any other gay men on the pro tour.

Crayola Oblongata
08-31-2011, 01:37 PM
Pretty funny....but also HOT. Oh, and Grigor,
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lomg8wtK151qze5aq.gif

In before thread possibly gets deleted.

Limpinhitter
08-31-2011, 01:42 PM
The threatened cat is still the funniest post I've seen in months, years! I pulled a few ab and cheek muscles laughing so hard at that one!

Dilettante
08-31-2011, 08:25 PM
I think I am in a unique position — cue unsavory erotic innuendo from the gent with seemingly intimate knowledge of Sydney's "bowel prowlers"

It's not like my English was very good before but this is the first sentence I've read in these boards that left me open-mouthed and made me think I really need a dictionary. I feel so foreigner right now!

"cue unsavory erotic innuendo", wow, sounds like a Red Hot Chili Peppers' song. I'm used to a lesser English like "Nadal should retire" or "Fed choked again" and I really thought I could understand everything here.

Or it's just what they say, that you gay men are really intelligent.

Sid_Vicious
08-31-2011, 08:29 PM
It's not like my English was very good before but this is the first sentence I've read in these boards that left me open-mouthed and made me think I really need a dictionary.

"cue unsavory erotic innuendo", wow, sounds like a Red Hot Chili Peppers' song. I'm used to a lesser English like "Nadal should retire" or "Fed choked again" and I really thought I could understand everything here.

Or it's just what they say, that you gay men are really intelligent.

Ditto.

Colin's 'poasts' make me feel illiterate . He also has an aptitude for poetry and a brilliant sense of humor.

Colin is GOAT candidate along with JoelDali.

nethawkwenatchee
08-31-2011, 09:20 PM
It is funny when some people suggest the sexual orientation of a tennis player doesn't matter yet the media ALWAYS make sure everyone knows who the straight guys on the ATP Tour are dating. Male homosexuality is treated as inferior and as a private matter due to homophobia when male homosexuality in pro tennis should be public. I can name over 12 WTA lesbian tennis players but hardly any gay men. The gay men on the ATP Tour are in the closet due to homophobic tennis fans and the media. Justin Gimelstob has made homophobic comments and so has Brad Gilbert. I am watching ESPN right now and of course McEnroe and the other commentator pointed out Kim Sears is Andy Murray's girlfriend. We know Federer is married and Djokovic has a girlfriend too. The heterosexuality of these men are never questioned. However, male homosexuality is viewed with contempt and a lot of hostility. I think it is time in 2011 for the gay or bisexual men on the ATP Tour to come out just like their lesbian counterparts on the WTA. Someone has to take the first step just like Martina and Billie Jean did in the 1980s their struggle allowed Mauresmo in the 1990s to maintain all her endorsements. It is called progression.

Amelie Mauresmo: Maybe you know of some "gay men on the ATP Tour" who "are in the closet due to homophobic tennis fans and the media"? If so, please name them here on these boards so we can have some closure to this matter once and for all. I for one could care less if any or all are homosexual and will openly promise to keep my opinions to myself!

If you don't... I guess we'll have to assume that these guys are, for the most part, attracted to the female. Is that such a hard thing to understand? That the vast majority of world class tennis males seem to desire the God given touch of a woman, sweetness, soft lips, hips, hair, the firtility, ETC? (These are a few examples of what us guys don't get from our male buds)

Amelie Mauresmo: Are you gay and proud of it? That certainly appears to be the case. You obviously are very keen to all the lesbian WTA players... maybe you could start you're very own gay WTA fan club here on the boards where you can discuss such matters with you're like minded counterparts? Please go for it!

This is my suggestion because I just don't see the need for such a club on the ATP side. These guys just seem to like girls and how could you blame them? I personally don't know one single top 100 ATP player and couldn't tell you what these guys sex life is like but my money is on the opposite of what you're saying. It's just a simple bet :)

Any thought?

Sentinel
08-31-2011, 09:25 PM
haaaa...i am kinda confused by your hyper sarcasm...
Yeh i am trying to br happy...but it's a process...i have taken few so stupid decisions which have hurt my self..
Don't worry about stupid decisions and mistakes. Who doesn't make them. Forget about it and keep going. It's a beautiful world, a wonderful life, do what makes you happy, don't hurt anyone else, all will be fine.

dParis
08-31-2011, 10:12 PM
its definitely a European thing. I gave my Swiss coach a christmas present and he kissed me on the cheek. at first i was a bit shocked, but it was a friendly gesture so i didn't make a big deal out of it. You guys are way overreacting.
The Europeans have nothing on the Latinos in the congratulatory department.

Pay closer attention around :32. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f9e_1183420047

:shock:

I bet you didn't see anything like that between Karlovic and Moser today after their big upset win.

Love Game
08-31-2011, 10:19 PM
that's one of the weirdest things ive seen. when monfils rejected the tongue, they went to a cheek kiss thing that you see only with women. what the heck is with this dmitrov guy.

it must be a cultural thing? I remember seeing Russian male gymnasts being kissed on the lips by their coaches for doing a good performance at Olympics.

never seen two opponents do it tho ... although it was dimitrov who made the gesture. monfils was being polite until gregor got too close, and then gael made a little jerk back, but tried not to embarrass him IMO

Love Game
08-31-2011, 10:21 PM
Monfils is much better looking and much better kisser too.:) In Europe, it is ok for guys to show Affection for each other by kissing each other.
We should try this more in USA as well. We might develop deeper more meaningful friendships...................:)

if you tried it here in the USA, you might develop a black eye instead! :o

himynameisNIKE
08-31-2011, 10:21 PM
The Europeans have nothing on the Latinos in the congratulatory department.

Pay closer attention around :32. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f9e_1183420047

:shock:

I bet you didn't see anything like that between Karlovic and Moser today after their big upset win.

My moms side of the family is latino, I know what you mean :)


and that.....that...is something :shock:

Love Game
08-31-2011, 10:23 PM
Here's a gif of it:

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqpyr2GMbn1qd0dbc.gif

good one! :lol:

Love Game
08-31-2011, 10:26 PM
http://i.imgur.com/yva4K.gif

ROTF LMAO .... :cool:

Fedace
08-31-2011, 10:35 PM
if you tried it here in the USA, you might develop a black eye instead! :o

That's why we have to develop a Kiss More initiative thru Congress. Write your congressman. It is good for your health. Research has shown that you live longer if you kiss more.

namelessone
08-31-2011, 10:35 PM
Who gives a flying f**k about a player's sexuality?

I think the reason commies talk about player x's(whether male or female) is to diversify the commentary so to speak(to get into non-tennis facts about the player so the audience can "relate") but tbh I never cared too much about these things. I watch for tennis not relationships.

Also, I don't see why the gay players should "come out of the closet". The gay population WORLDWIDE is estimated around 10% or so. Extrapolate that to tennis and it would mean that maybe 1 in 10 players is gay. Considering the enviroment(a highly competitive one, cause this is pro sports, where a bit of machismo is pretty traditional, though not as much as in other sports), a gay player would be looked down upon cause most guys wouldn't want to share a locker room with a guy that could view getting intimate with some of them as a possibility.

Probably not a very pc view but majority rules and the majority wants to have sex with the opposite gender. The gay in the locker-room(as far as males go) isn't exactly a common sight in most pro sports, not just in tennis.

Tell me of the last gay guy you heard being outed or coming out of the closet in football(soccer), american football, rugby - and so on - and still maintaining a positive image or successful career from that point onward. Very few if any.

Love Game
08-31-2011, 10:37 PM
After a long match....Dimitrov had to feel a bit dousy.....he was aiming for a cheek kiss....but almost missed. Monfils assited him.

It isn't ****! I've been to europe and it is like that with my cousins and the people there. A polite gesture.

didnt look to me as if dimi was aiming for a cheek kiss ... looked to me as if gael THOUGHT he was aiming for a cheek kiss, then gently pulled away when he realized that dimi was aiming for the lips and saved the moment by turning it into a cheek kiss.

come to think of it, even with all the europeans dominating the atp, I've never seen men kiss instead of a handshake (not sure but once i thought simon and monfils might have kissed on the lips in ozland when gael was forced to retire from their match)

namelessone
08-31-2011, 10:40 PM
didnt look to me as if dimi was aiming for a cheek kiss ... looked to me as if gael THOUGHT he was aiming for a cheek kiss, then gently pulled away when he realized that dimi was aiming for the lips and saved the moment by turning it into a cheek kiss.

come to think of it, even with all the europeans dominating the atp, I've never seen men kiss instead of a handshake (not sure but once i thought simon and monfils might have kissed on the lips in ozland when gael was forced to retire from their match)

Can't speak for all europeans cause there are different customs in different european countries but kissing on the cheek where I come from is reserved for relatives and maybe close friends(but come to think of it, I've never kissed any of my friends period, though I know some people who do that). You wouldn't kiss just anyone on the cheek, it would be embarrassing.

These rules apply to guys. Ladies kiss way more liberally.

Love Game
08-31-2011, 11:06 PM
Can't speak for all europeans cause there are different customs in different european countries but kissing on the cheek where I come from is reserved for relatives and maybe close friends(but come to think of it, I've never kissed any of my friends period, though I know some people who do that). You wouldn't kiss just anyone on the cheek, it would be embarrassing.

These rules apply to guys. Ladies kiss way more liberally.

true dat ...
lots of cheek kissing over the net by women competitors, never saw lips ...
I take it that russians only kiss team members on the lips?
oh yeah, maybe the frenchies too?

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/4905/andre1w.jpg

http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/6125/andre3.jpg

http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/1459/andre4.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/850/andre4.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

Magnus
08-31-2011, 11:10 PM
Like our favorite player trying to close out the first set of his opening match, you make one excellent point surrounded by a flurry of embarrassing errors. :)

I agree that sexual orientation doesn't matter on the court and that you can certainly enjoy a match without knowing a thing about a player's personal life.

But off the court, we have to realize players are personalities, too. They're getting paid to win the match, but they're getting paid more importantly because people want to watch them win the match. Fans watch the matches not only because they love the game, but because they become personally invested in their favorite players and will inevitably want to know some basic information about those players' lives.

I'm not saying we should create a reality show on VH1 with a camera crew following Dimitrov into the locker room at a grand slam as he tries to flirt and French-kiss his way through the seeded players — though I'm sure I'd set my DVR, and "Seeded at the Slam" would make a great title — but do allow a culture in which gay male tennis players are allowed the option of being open in all facets of their lives. It's not just a coincidence that a poster was able to list a dozen lesbian players, yet we can't name a single current one. In fact, the only notable one I can think of (Bill Tilden) died back in 1953.

The players shouldn't feel like they have to come out. But they should feel like they can. You asked me, I gather rhetorically but I'll answer nonetheless, what straight players share about their passions and personal lives. Well, we know Novak likes to have sex with his girlfriend (he told the commentators so after a particularly satisfying win last year at the U.S. Open). We know that Rafa was getting cozy with pop stars in their videos and that Roddick landed a swimsuit model. We know that Mardy Fish's wife had to share his special diet. And, in the example you cite here, we know that Federer has a wife and kids.

I just want the same for the gay players on tour.

I disagree. I do think fans are personally investes in their favorite players, but other than that, I don't think its relevant that the players come out. If Dimitrov is gay or straight it doesn't matter to me, I don't want to know about it. Personality is more than sexual orientation, you know. If a person has a nice personality, I can relate to him regardless of what he does on bed.

Miso
08-31-2011, 11:38 PM
Faire la bise


That's what he tried to do. Monfils didn't recognize it early. So it looked.... odd. But it was funny to me.

Love Game
08-31-2011, 11:50 PM
interestingly, this is the newest image posted on the official atp website of grigor dimitrov during his match with monfils ...

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Top-Players/Grigor-Dimitrov.aspx

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/1994/dimiz.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/268/dimiz.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

Colin
09-01-2011, 12:34 AM
Ditto.

Colin's 'poasts' make me feel illiterate . He also has an aptitude for poetry and a brilliant sense of humor.

Colin is GOAT candidate along with JoelDali.

Oh, you two are too sweet. :oops: I work with language as a professional. Think of someone's writing as a botched hit, mangled words and punctuation bespoiling the page like blood and viscera in an assassin's once-sparkling bathtub. I'd be the linguistic cleaner called in at the 11th hour to help clear the mess, clutching my Fowler's like a jug of hydrofluoric acid, which transmutes flesh and bone into dirty, red bath water escaping through the drain.

So, in my amateur hour on the great Internet boards of this Earth, despite my intentions of being more casual and throwing spellchecker to the wind, I sometimes find myself unwittingly indulging in brief moments of eloquence, with the unfortunate side effects of grandiloquence and bloviation. The intent is not to drive up sales of dictionaries (though book purchases are a splendid thing in this day and age), but to share my personal love of language as I share a communal love of tennis. (That sounds very orgy-like, I'm afraid, but perhaps that's apt for the thread, as we're still not certain what transpired between Dimitrov, Monfils and their camps in the aftermath of that failed moment of affection.)

Dilletante: I can assure you, with some measure of authority, that not all gay men are intelligent. Some are quite the opposite. In fact, I prefer my men beautiful and as dumb as a rock.

Magnus: Point taken. A player should not have to come out if he doesn't feel the desire. But if that interest were there, would you begrudge him the opportunity to have his boyfriend in his box for support the same way Mirka sits as nervously as a hostage in a ransom video every time Fed serves for a set? In other words, would you stop supporting an openly gay player that you once enjoyed watching?

Magnus
09-01-2011, 12:47 AM
Magnus: Point taken. A player should not have to come out if he doesn't feel the desire. But if that interest were there, would you begrudge him the opportunity to have his boyfriend in his box for support the same way Mirka sits as nervously as a hostage in a ransom video every time Fed serves for a set? In other words, would you stop supporting an openly gay player that you once enjoyed watching?

If they show his BF, then obviously he's out. If he's out, its his buisness. If he plays good tennis, I'll watch. Otherwise, I won't. I didn't know Stosur was a Lesbian until someone wrote about it here, and I still don't care. I like her forehand and serve. Also, I think they show Mirka way too much.

I do have some critisism for the gay community, which tries to out men who don't want to come out. Some gay men live with men but don't tell about it, and some gay men live as straight men. In my country we have this popular singer who was in the closet and wanted to stay there, yet one of the gay TV celevreties outed him and made him confess. Its ugly and violent behavior. Every person deserves to live the way he chooses to live, without anyone making him do something he doesn't want or doesn't believe in.

Cheers :)

CMM
09-01-2011, 12:58 AM
I didn't know Stosur was a Lesbian until someone wrote about it here

I heard a commentator saying this during one of her matches, but how did they find out? Did she talk about this?
This video suggests she's straight

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yn-PthOyv04&feature=player_detailpage#t=54s

Colin
09-01-2011, 01:19 AM
If they show his BF, then obviously he's out. If he's out, its his buisness. If he plays good tennis, I'll watch. Otherwise, I won't. I didn't know Stosur was a Lesbian until someone wrote about it here, and I still don't care. I like her forehand and serve. Also, I think they show Mirka way too much.

I do have some critisism for the gay community, which tries to out men who don't want to come out. Some gay men live with men but don't tell about it, and some gay men live as straight men. In my country we have this popular singer who was in the closet and wanted to stay there, yet one of the gay TV celevreties outed him and made him confess. Its ugly and violent behavior. Every person deserves to live the way he chooses to live, without anyone making him do something he doesn't want or doesn't believe in.

Cheers :)
Which country do you live in? (And what singer was outed?)

In my country (the U.S.), we obviously have scores of closeted celebrities and politicians. I think it's fine if they want to stay in the closet, but they have to realize that we live an Internet age and information might get out eventually. Then it becomes like Clay Aiken, Ricky Martin and Lance Bass, who surprised nobody with their admissions. It just made them look pathetic to try to pretend they were into women when nobody was buying it.

Amelie Mauresmo
09-01-2011, 05:53 AM
I think the reason some gay people are upset with closeted male celebrities is because they can do so much for the movement yet they hide in the closet. Are we supposed to believe the only gay man in tennis history was Bill Tilden in the 1920s? Yes Tilden was gay but he also was a 10 time grand slam singles champion. Tilden also wrote books about tennis that are still very popular and make a lot of sense. Tilden really brought tennis to a worldwide audience he became a celebrity in the 1920s and 1930s he hanged out with people like Charlie Chaplin, and other A list celebrities. Tilden really transcended tennis. People bring up the fact that Tilden had a thing for young boys but he wasn't a pedophile he was just a guy that was attracted to teenagers and that is not pedophila. I don't know the word for it but being attracted to teens is not pedophila. Also, people need to remember in the 1950s there was that whole McCarthy thing a witchhunt against homosexuals in America. Tilden was a victim of his time he was ahead of his time in terms of being out. But Tilden was still a great tennis champion. It is outrageous in the the year 2011 no other gay male tennis player has come out of the closet. It is wrong these gay male tennis players need to come out to advance the gay rights movement it is their responsibility and duty! It seems to me due to homophobia some straight people don't want to believe a gay male athlete can be gay, masculine, and also a good athlete. You don't see the women hiding do you? I respect lesbian athletes a lot more than the gay male athletes. The WTA is now a great place for a lesbian tennis player to come out she knows no one will judge her and she will be accepted by all the other women. But someone had to open the door. Martina Navratilova and Billie Jean King were outed in the 1981 but they were courageous and opened doors for younger lesbians such as Amelie Mauresmo, Conchita Martinez, Renee Stubbs, and Samantha Stosur. Someone has to have the guts to take the next step. I don't know if Grigor is gay or not but if he was that would be tremendous for gay male athletes. We need a gay guy that is in the top 100 or higher to come out of the closet and say he is proud to be gay. We need this to advance the gay rights movement. The best way for a gay male tennis player to come out is to have the partner in the box supporting him. I think this is the way Amelie came out in 1999 she former girlfriend was in the friends box and the media basically picked up on the story. Amelie didn't have some big press conference announcing she is a lesbian she just lives her life. Now Samantha Stosur, many people especially on the women's tennis forum board have discussed at length she is indeed a lesbian. But since the WTA is more progressive nobody will make a big deal about it. It's just like when Gigi Fernandez and Conchita Martinez were dating in the mid 1990s the tennis commentators just mentioned it and moved on. I remember Pam Shriver and Mary Carillo talking about it a couple of times during Conchita's matches. Lisa Raymond and Renee Stubbs are no longer together but they were a great doubles team and they were pretty open about being a lesbian couple. What is interesting is although Lisa and Renee broke up they still compete in doubles together. Lisa and Renee are also close friends of Samantha Stosur.

veroniquem
09-01-2011, 06:09 AM
I agree with you. Bill Tilden was before tennis became big business. There is too much prejudice against male homosexuality for coming out not affecting one's image drastically. No one wants to take a chance and I suspect that even if the players themselves were tempted to do so, their sponsors probably demand they don't (for commercial reasons). I wouldn't be surprised if it was explicitly mentioned in their contracts. It's a shame but as long as pro sport is about making big bucks, I don't see it change any time soon.

Dilettante
09-01-2011, 06:58 AM
I think the reason some gay people are upset with closeted male celebrities is because they can do so much for the movement yet they hide in the closet.

Well, the true selfish people in this example are those who are upset with closeted male celebrities.

They put the supposed "movement" above the individual rights of the closeted males. Who are closeted because they have the perfect right to be closeted, just like other gay people have the perfect right of exposing their sexuality.

Deciding what another person must do with his private life in order to help some "movement" or "group" regardless of what that person really wants to do... well, that's bigotry.

I don't care if there are gay tennis stars or not or if they are closeted or not, I just watch tennis for the game itself. It's up to them to declare their homosexual condition or not.

I happen to be a heterosexual tennis fan, but if I don't care about a tennis player being closeted, I don't understand why a homosexual tennis fan should care either. We're both in it for the game (well, a gay fan might enjoy watching some handsome male players just as I enjoy watching Ivanovic or Goerges, but again: if I don't care about Ivanovic being straight or lesbian because I don't have any personal relationship with her and it's just not my business, why should a gay fan care about closeted players?).

Gay people are just like us heterosexual people, we're all human and gays can be bigots too, it's not like being gay makes you free of bigotry.

Let players stay in the closet if they want to.

Limpinhitter
09-01-2011, 07:46 AM
Oh, you two are too sweet. :oops: I work with language as a professional. Think of someone's writing as a botched hit, mangled words and punctuation bespoiling the page like blood and viscera in an assassin's once-sparkling bathtub. I'd be the linguistic cleaner called in at the 11th hour to help clear the mess, clutching my Fowler's like a jug of hydrofluoric acid, which transmutes flesh and bone into dirty, red bath water escaping through the drain.

So, in my amateur hour on the great Internet boards of this Earth, despite my intentions of being more casual and throwing spellchecker to the wind, I sometimes find myself unwittingly indulging in brief moments of eloquence, with the unfortunate side effects of grandiloquence and bloviation. The intent is not to drive up sales of dictionaries (though book purchases are a splendid thing in this day and age), but to share my personal love of language as I share a communal love of tennis. (That sounds very orgy-like, I'm afraid, but perhaps that's apt for the thread, as we're still not certain what transpired between Dimitrov, Monfils and their camps in the aftermath of that failed moment of affection.)

Dilletante: I can assure you, with some measure of authority, that not all gay men are intelligent. Some are quite the opposite. In fact, I prefer my men beautiful and as dumb as a rock.

Magnus: Point taken. A player should not have to come out if he doesn't feel the desire. But if that interest were there, would you begrudge him the opportunity to have his boyfriend in his box for support the same way Mirka sits as nervously as a hostage in a ransom video every time Fed serves for a set? In other words, would you stop supporting an openly gay player that you once enjoyed watching?

Reading this post was like hiking knee deep in molasses. Too much work for the reward.

nethawkwenatchee
09-01-2011, 07:54 AM
I think the reason some gay people are upset with closeted male celebrities is because they can do so much for the movement yet they hide in the closet.

Amelie Mauresmo: I'm wondering if you saw and/or care to repond to my post from last night? Please don't take offense to it and try and respond objectively. Thanks!

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=5947602&postcount=189

Limpinhitter
09-01-2011, 08:14 AM
. . . In fact, the only notable one I can think of (Bill Tilden) died back in 1953. . . .

You didn't read my post where I mentioned Baron Gottfried von Cramm? I would think Renee Richards qualifies as well.

DRII
09-01-2011, 08:21 AM
Some people need to realize: just like there's about 10% of the population which is probably gay (ATP included), there is also at least 50% of the population that (for whatever reason) have a homophobic reaction to gay men performing as athletes.

It probably has to do with the intense correlation between sports and sex and power, in particular the masculine aspect of sex and power. This is why lesbians are more or less embraced or expected in sports as compared to gay men largely being shunned.

Just as politics is expected to be absent from sports, so is political correctness anticipated to be devoid from athletics. The arena is the most obvious place where raw emotion is still expressed and allowed, although not nearly as much in the past. If popular culture dictates that the idea of gay males and sport (i.e. masculinity in sex and power) just don’t mix, then this will be reflected largely by the fans and by the athletes themselves, even if its not P.C. or fair or right.

flyinghippos101
09-01-2011, 08:46 AM
I think the reason some gay people are upset with closeted male celebrities is because they can do so much for the movement yet they hide in the closet. Are we supposed to believe the only gay man in tennis history was Bill Tilden in the 1920s? Yes Tilden was gay but he also was a 10 time grand slam singles champion. Tilden also wrote books about tennis that are still very popular and make a lot of sense. Tilden really brought tennis to a worldwide audience he became a celebrity in the 1920s and 1930s he hanged out with people like Charlie Chaplin, and other A list celebrities. Tilden really transcended tennis. People bring up the fact that Tilden had a thing for young boys but he wasn't a pedophile he was just a guy that was attracted to teenagers and that is not pedophila. I don't know the word for it but being attracted to teens is not pedophila. Also, people need to remember in the 1950s there was that whole McCarthy thing a witchhunt against homosexuals in America. Tilden was a victim of his time he was ahead of his time in terms of being out. But Tilden was still a great tennis champion. It is outrageous in the the year 2011 no other gay male tennis player has come out of the closet. It is wrong these gay male tennis players need to come out to advance the gay rights movement it is their responsibility and duty! It seems to me due to homophobia some straight people don't want to believe a gay male athlete can be gay, masculine, and also a good athlete. You don't see the women hiding do you? I respect lesbian athletes a lot more than the gay male athletes. The WTA is now a great place for a lesbian tennis player to come out she knows no one will judge her and she will be accepted by all the other women. But someone had to open the door. Martina Navratilova and Billie Jean King were outed in the 1981 but they were courageous and opened doors for younger lesbians such as Amelie Mauresmo, Conchita Martinez, Renee Stubbs, and Samantha Stosur. Someone has to have the guts to take the next step. I don't know if Grigor is gay or not but if he was that would be tremendous for gay male athletes. We need a gay guy that is in the top 100 or higher to come out of the closet and say he is proud to be gay. We need this to advance the gay rights movement. The best way for a gay male tennis player to come out is to have the partner in the box supporting him. I think this is the way Amelie came out in 1999 she former girlfriend was in the friends box and the media basically picked up on the story. Amelie didn't have some big press conference announcing she is a lesbian she just lives her life. Now Samantha Stosur, many people especially on the women's tennis forum board have discussed at length she is indeed a lesbian. But since the WTA is more progressive nobody will make a big deal about it. It's just like when Gigi Fernandez and Conchita Martinez were dating in the mid 1990s the tennis commentators just mentioned it and moved on. I remember Pam Shriver and Mary Carillo talking about it a couple of times during Conchita's matches. Lisa Raymond and Renee Stubbs are no longer together but they were a great doubles team and they were pretty open about being a lesbian couple. What is interesting is although Lisa and Renee broke up they still compete in doubles together. Lisa and Renee are also close friends of Samantha Stosur.

Paragraphs are your friend...

Amelie Mauresmo
09-01-2011, 11:19 AM
Some people need to realize: just like there's about 10% of the population which is probably gay (ATP included), there is also at least 50% of the population that (for whatever reason) have a homophobic reaction to gay men performing as athletes.

It probably has to do with the intense correlation between sports and sex and power, in particular the masculine aspect of sex and power. This is why lesbians are more or less embraced or expected in sports as compared to gay men largely being shunned.

Just as politics is expected to be absent from sports, so is political correctness anticipated to be devoid from athletics. The arena is the most obvious place where raw emotion is still expressed and allowed, although not nearly as much in the past. If popular culture dictates that the idea of gay males and sport (i.e. masculinity in sex and power) just don’t mix, then this will be reflected largely by the fans and by the athletes themselves, even if its not P.C. or fair or right.
Perhaps this is true BUT the other side of the coin is these closeted gay male tennis players are just cowards. The lesbians also suffered consequences by coming out. It wasn't easy but Martina and Billie Jean were outed in 1981 yet they thrived. The same can happen for gay men in tennis but someone MUST take a stand and speak out against homophobia and heterosexism. Martina and Billie Jean KNEW they had a social responsibility to advance the gay rights movement in pro tennis and I applaud them. Homosexuality is still viewed as PRIVATE while heterosexuality is PUBLIC and this must change! Someone has to stop being a coward and help the gay community by coming out these gay guys on the ATP TOUR have so much power they don't even realize it. It is so selfish to hide in the closet and hide because it treats being gay as being wrong. I know it sounds harsh but it is the truth. Martina Navratilova and Billie Jean King lost their endorsements when they were outed in 1981. Now exactly 30 years later lesbianism is acceptable on the WTA Tour. Amelie Mauresmo pushed the lesbian movement on the WTA forward along with Renee Stubbs, Gigi Fernandez, Samantha Stosur, Jana Novotna, Hana Mandlikova, Nicole Pratt, Lisa Raymond, Conchita Martinez and other lesbians. But someone has to be that pioneer and push the movement open it is their responsibility as a gay person to advance the gay rights movement. Someone has to be that Jackie Robinson on the ATP Tour to come out of the closet and be proud to be gay. I am not saying the gay guy has to hold a press conference I am suggesting he should not hide his homosexuality and fight for gay rights. The lesbians have always been the real pioneers in professional tennis not the gay men. People make excuses for these gay cowards BUT if someone took a stand then it would be easier for the others to follow and come out of the closet.

Lunaticalm
09-01-2011, 11:58 AM
This is an interesting article about this topic from Out magazine:

Francisco Rodriguez is spanking forehands and smacking backhands on a private tennis court in Atlanta, sweat pouring from his shirtless chest. A gaggle of gay boys watch in awe. “Some guys are interested in me because of tennis,” Francisco says. “I still look like an athlete. I can still hit the ball, and that catches their attention.”

Their interest is understandable. A former two-time all-American college player, Francisco played professional tennis from 2001 to 2006, won two small tournaments, and once held a world ranking in the high 300s. At 32 he still represents his South American homeland in the prestigious international Davis Cup competition.

“I miss the thrill of competing a lot,” he says. “I just couldn’t travel alone anymore. Wanting a boyfriend was in the back of my mind all the time. Having someone off the court who is in your corner -- it helps a lot.”

Until recently, however, a boyfriend in Francisco’s corner -- or even a group of gay fans -- was unthinkable. “If you came out on the tennis tour,” Francisco says, “you would be an outcast.”


No professional male tennis player has ever publicly come out of the closet. Not that there haven’t been gay male tennis players. One of the greatest of all time, Bill Tilden, was a kind of tennis version of Oscar Wilde. A big, sophisticated, charming man who revolutionized the sport in the 1920s with his multifaceted game, Tilden won 10 Grand Slam singles titles and cavorted with movie stars like Tallulah Bankhead and Douglas Fairbanks. His predilection for young men was an open secret in tennis circles, but according to Tilden biographer Frank Deford, Big Bill would never have publicly avowed his homosexuality. In 1946, Tilden was arrested on Sunset Boulevard in Beverly Hills with a young man in his car -- whose fly was wide open. He went to jail for eight months, only to be arrested again in 1949. He died a penniless outcast.

Since Tilden’s tragic fall, however, dozens of pro, Olympic, and high-profile college athletes have successfully swum, skated, run, golfed, rugbied, and Nordic-skied their way out of the closet. Tennis has been a cradle of lesbian liberation, from feminist legends Billie Jean King and Martina Navratilova to current top 20 player and two-time Grand Slam winner Amélie Mauresmo. Mauresmo, a former world number 1, isn’t exactly out loud and proud in the media, but she’s struck a major blow for gay athletes by retaining her sponsorships and becoming a beloved national hero in her home country of France.

The fact that no male pro tennis player has come out puzzles even longtime tennis observers. “I’m surprised that a male player hasn’t come out. It’s a safe sport in which to come out. The other player is on the other side of the net. What can he do?” says 18-time Grand Slam singles champion Navratilova. The Czech gay goddess also points out that, since tennis players aren’t hired or fired by coaches or owners, “no one can take your job away” and that in general male players are not homophobic. “We know players encounter gay folks: Andy Roddick is a regular at Elton John’s charity events. Roddick or Andre Agassi wouldn’t not hire someone because of his sexual orientation,” she claims.

Croatian player Ivan Ljubicic seems to prove Navratilova’s point. Ranked number 3 in 2006, Ljubicic is also president of the tour’s player council. “I’d be really surprised and shocked if someone had a problem with a [gay player]. We’re an international tour, we have all races. If there’s any kind of discrimination, as a tour we would act,” he says.

Sports Illustrated tennis guru Jon Wertheim thinks coming out for a male player could actually be a sort of promotion. “Tennis has such a big gay fan base that anyone who came out would be a celebrity. If player X came out today, he would get his own line of clothing tomorrow,” Wertheim says. Dapper four-time Grand Slam singles champ and full-time tennis entrepreneur Jim Courier concurs but puts it a little more technically. “Differentiation is critical to obtaining endorsements, and companies are more and more aware of appealing to all demographics. I would think there is a circumstance where it would be an added financial benefit for a player to come out,” he says.

Many people interviewed for this article, from tennis tour staffers to former players to pundits, believe that an openly gay player would cause, in Courier’s words, “an initial shock wave,” but then the tour would adapt, and everyone would move on.

So what’s the holdup? Just ask Justin Gimelstob.

“I think Jon Wertheim is utopian in his thought process. I think there’s a 100% chance that [a player who comes out] would be an outcast and wouldn’t be signing a deal for Viagra or Trojans,” says Gimelstob, a 31-year-old American player who retired last fall. The New Jersey–born Gimelstob, a USDA ham on the tennis court, is now a TV tennis commentator and columnist. “Good luck finding top players to talk about this,” he says.

Is tennis, so genteel compared to rough-and-tumble mainstream team sports like football and basketball, really that homophobic? Gimelstob is unequivocal. “The locker room couldn’t be a more homophobic place,” he says. “We’re not gay-bashing. There’s just a lot of positive normal hetero talk about pretty girls and working out and drinking beer. That’s why people want to be pro athletes!”

While tennis may not be routinely or overtly homophobic, tennis players have been known to be publicly antigay.
OutSports.com, a website dedicated to gays in sports, has enshrined retired Croatian player Goran Ivanisevic on its “Anti-Gay” list for his liberal use of the word “******,” most notably after an otherwise inspiring victory at Wimbledon in 2001. Articles attempting to dramatize the transformation of Andre Agassi from spandex-wearing oaf to philosophical family man frequently cite his remark that he was “happy as a ****** in a submarine” after winning a French Open match as evidence of how far he’s come. Notes Wertheim of both Ivanisevic’s and Agassi’s remarks, “These were press conferences.” In other words: What must go on when the media isn’t listening?
In the mid 1990s, a graduate of the University of Southern California’s powerhouse tennis program spotted Francisco -- then just out of high school -- at a small tournament in South America. One connection led to another, and he jumped at a scholarship to play for a Southeastern Conference school. He didn’t just want to get an education and play top-level tennis. He wanted to come out of the closet. “I knew that I was gay and living in a country where that wouldn’t be possible. It’s dangerous. People get murdered for being gay.”

Little did Francisco know that playing serious college tennis in the Deep South wasn’t exactly happy hour in the West Village. Homophobic slurs were commonplace on campus, among his tennis
teammates, and even on the green rectangle of the tennis court. “People at other schools would say mean things, like ‘You ****ing ******.’ That’s one of the first things they say to an opponent. People would come behind the court and try to bug you. With other players it was a racial slur or ‘you fat ***.’ They called me Barbie because I had long blond hair.”

The harassment didn’t keep Francisco from becoming a star. With his aggressive baseline game, anchored by whizzing inside-out forehands and superaccurate passing shots, he finished twice in the nation’s top five, earning him all-American status. He had wins over U.S. players who would later have respectable pro careers such as Robby Ginepri and Brian Vahaly, as well as competitive matches against James Blake and his brother Thomas. “[The homophobia] didn’t hurt. I was trained to be mentally tough. I’ve been playing tennis my whole life. You have to be able to play competitively,” Francisco says. “I was able to block it out, but I still heard it.”

He heard it well enough to know that coming out as one of the university’s star athletes would be impossible. “I wanted to be out, but I never acted on [my sexual feelings],” he says. “I was too pressured. I concentrated on tennis and school.”

When Francisco moved to Atlanta and turned pro, little changed. He stayed in the closet. His career flourished. On the Challenger circuit -- the pro tour’s minor leagues -- he reached eight finals and won two of them. He nabbed 10 doubles titles.

Successful enough to have a seat at pro tennis’s movable feast, Francisco traveled the globe, occasionally hanging with superstars like Andy Roddick and Anna Kournikova. The highlight of Francisco’s career was an upset win over Brazil in the Davis Cup, thanks in part to Francisco’s fifth-set 11–9 victory on clay -- his worst surface -- over a player ranked 200 places higher. “It was indescribable. He had the whole stadium behind him. Winning a match you’re not supposed to win -- there’s no feeling like it in the world,” he says.

Over the years, however, traveling and living solo took its toll. Francisco traveled to world capitals to play tennis but never visited gay bars. Coming out to his tennis buddies was unthinkable. “If [an openly gay player] wanted to practice with other players, they would say, ‘No thanks, I don’t want to be associated with you,’ because people would think they were gay also,” he says. One pro tennis insider isn’t surprised by Francisco’s assessment. “The locker room can be a lonely place. For all the
camaraderie, it can be isolating,” he says. “[A gay player] is always going to be subject to snide comments. Naked bodies are
involved. You know, there are still people who think you can get AIDS off a toilet seat.”

Lunaticalm
09-01-2011, 11:59 AM
2nd part:

Francisco says just being suspected of being gay means hearing homophobic comments on court. “During the heat of battle -- as a last resort -- opponents, when they get irritated, go to that. They would call me ‘******’ or ‘sissy.’ ” How did they know he was gay? They didn’t -- but he never had a girlfriend and never talked about girls. “Tennis players like to have a girlfriend there all the time,” he says.

According to Francisco, being gay is also a potential competitive disadvantage. “This is the talk in the locker room: If a male player has to play a guy who is [perceived to be] gay, they automatically
assume he is weak and they have a mental advantage. When they see who they are playing, they say, ‘Oh, he’s a sissy, you can’t lose to him,’ ” he says.

The idea riles Ljubicic. “That’s ridiculous. No pro needs extra motivation to win a match. If I play against black, white, Chinese, gay, I’m not looking for extra motivation,” he says.

Francisco may have been deeply closeted as a pro, but there is plenty of titillating gossip about male players who have had same-sex hotel room trysts or lovers traveling as masseurs. As any mildly obsessive gay male fan knows, tantalizing rumors surround a hunky American player once ranked inside the top 20. “He was very attractive, muscular, the epitome of a gay pinup. Everyone kind of knew he was gay from the way he talked -- he wasn’t hiding it. I remember him in line for lunch with his boyfriend,” one source says.

Another former number 1 American player was thought to play both sides of the net. Very rarely, the media takes up these kinds of rumors. Last year the French magazine Le Point asked French businessman Arnaud Lagardère to comment on a rumor that he was having an affair with a current top 10 player, the boyish Richard Gasquet. Lagardère vigorously denied it, as did Gasquet in a press conference after a match at a tournament in Monte Carlo. Nonetheless, rumors about Gasquet persist.

Even if gay tennis fans are forced to live on scraps of gossip, there is one place where gay males and tennis might be a comfortable reality: college. The United States has changed a great deal in the decade or so since Francisco endured homophobic taunts on university courts. At a handful of schools, tennis players and coaches have played through the closet door.

In 2005, Matthew Coin came out to his tennis teammates during his senior year at the University of California, Santa Barbara. “Positive things came out of it and no negative ones,” says Coin. “From the moment I came out, they gave me incredible support.” Kyle Wagner played tennis for California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo, in 2002 and 2003 and came out to his teammates shortly after he graduated. “They loved it -- they had no problems with it at all,” Wagner says. “I was worked up over it being this big thing, and they said, ‘We kind of figured.’ ”

In 2002, Sean Burns, a coach at Santa Clara University, came out to his players. Again, the experience was overwhelmingly supportive. “We were running in the gym,” says Burns, “and there was a junior who came in last. He was mad at himself, so he said ‘****in’ ******’ to himself. About four players said ‘Shut your ****in’ mouth.’ ”

Says Courier, “I’m speculating here, but times have changed. Today’s youth seem to have shifted toward being more accepting.”

Which is one reason that eventually a professional male tennis player will likely come out. Courier says it’s “a question of when, not if.” Navratilova says it will happen “before 2010.”

Collegiate openness is already affecting professional tennis. After he quit the pro tour, Francisco began coming out to friends. Through gay tennis networks, he met Coin. “He was very supportive. We talked a lot,” Francisco says.

Today he is out and “100% happier.” He doesn’t have a boyfriend but has no trouble attracting male admirers to practices and the occasional small pro tournament he plays. He may not be Billie Jean King yet, but in his own way he’s helping destroy the wall between gay men and professional sports -- and sports in general. “I want the association of ‘gay’ with ‘sissy’ gone,” he says. “I would love to show that gay people can be great athletes.”

Amelie Mauresmo
09-01-2011, 12:06 PM
Thanks for the OUTSPORTS article but this guy Francisco Rodriguez wasn't even ranked in the top 100 on the ATP Tour. He wasn't even a journeyman he was basically someone that competed in the minor leagues. Men's tennis NEEDS someone in the top 100 at least someone that is higher ranked and visible to come out. The reason Mauresmo, Martina Navratilova, and Billie Jean King made such an impact wasn't just because they are lesbians. Martina, Billie Jean, and Amelie were also top players and champions therefore more visible. Men's tennis is going to need a gay guy that is either a top player or at a higher ranked player to come out. The public won't care about someone ranked in the 300s coming out he won't have a cultural impact. It is going to take a gay male tennis player that has had some success on the pro tour to come out to make a difference. The reason is, if a successful gay male tennis player comes out he proves a gay man can be a great athlete and also be gay. But someone ranked in the 300s isn't going to make that impact.

Raistlin
09-01-2011, 12:17 PM
So we have one young player (Harrison) getting lambasted by the board for having a temper after losing, and another (Dimitrov) for trying to kiss another man on the mouth after receiving a straight set loss.

I think I will put my money on the fighter over the lover to have a better career.

Skillwise, it is the lover lol

Dilettante
09-01-2011, 01:56 PM
Thanks for the OUTSPORTS article but this guy Francisco Rodriguez wasn't even ranked in the top 100 on the ATP Tour. He wasn't even a journeyman he was basically someone that competed in the minor leagues. Men's tennis NEEDS someone in the top 100 at least someone that is higher ranked and visible to come out. The reason Mauresmo, Martina Navratilova, and Billie Jean King made such an impact wasn't just because they are lesbians. Martina, Billie Jean, and Amelie were also top players and champions therefore more visible. Men's tennis is going to need a gay guy that is either a top player or at a higher ranked player to come out. The public won't care about someone ranked in the 300s coming out he won't have a cultural impact. It is going to take a gay male tennis player that has had some success on the pro tour to come out to make a difference. The reason is, if a successful gay male tennis player comes out he proves a gay man can be a great athlete and also be gay. But someone ranked in the 300s isn't going to make that impact.

Perhaps this is true BUT the other side of the coin is these closeted gay male tennis players are just cowards. The lesbians also suffered consequences by coming out. It wasn't easy but Martina and Billie Jean were outed in 1981 yet they thrived. The same can happen for gay men in tennis but someone MUST take a stand and speak out against homophobia and heterosexism. Martina and Billie Jean KNEW they had a social responsibility to advance the gay rights movement in pro tennis and I applaud them. Homosexuality is still viewed as PRIVATE while heterosexuality is PUBLIC and this must change! Someone has to stop being a coward and help the gay community by coming out these gay guys on the ATP TOUR have so much power they don't even realize it. It is so selfish to hide in the closet and hide because it treats being gay as being wrong. I know it sounds harsh but it is the truth. Martina Navratilova and Billie Jean King lost their endorsements when they were outed in 1981. Now exactly 30 years later lesbianism is acceptable on the WTA Tour. Amelie Mauresmo pushed the lesbian movement on the WTA forward along with Renee Stubbs, Gigi Fernandez, Samantha Stosur, Jana Novotna, Hana Mandlikova, Nicole Pratt, Lisa Raymond, Conchita Martinez and other lesbians. But someone has to be that pioneer and push the movement open it is their responsibility as a gay person to advance the gay rights movement. Someone has to be that Jackie Robinson on the ATP Tour to come out of the closet and be proud to be gay. I am not saying the gay guy has to hold a press conference I am suggesting he should not hide his homosexuality and fight for gay rights. The lesbians have always been the real pioneers in professional tennis not the gay men. People make excuses for these gay cowards BUT if someone took a stand then it would be easier for the others to follow and come out of the closet.

Although I noticed you are not interested in answering my previous post, which is ok, I insist. Yours is an authoritarian speech, pretending some individuals have a special obligation just because they're famous and even calling them "cowards" if they don't act like you would like them to.

Saddening, really. I don't know how calling gay people "cowards" for being private is a way of "fight for gay rights". They have the (not gay, universal) right to keep their stuff private.

veroniquem
09-01-2011, 04:51 PM
They have no obligation. It's just that it would help reduce the general hostility vs gay men in the US. Also lying and hiding sucks, no matter how you look at it.

tennis_pro
09-01-2011, 04:56 PM
Although I noticed you are not interested in answering my previous post, which is ok, I insist. Yours is an authoritarian speech, pretending some individuals have a special obligation just because they're famous and even calling them "cowards" if they don't act like you would like them to.

Saddening, really. I don't know how calling gay people "cowards" for being private is a way of "fight for gay rights". They have the (not gay, universal) right to keep their stuff private.

It's not like I care about homosexual people coming out but it would be fun to know which pro player is gay.

Wouldn't it?