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View Full Version : I don't understand the match strategy vs. Serena


guitarplayer
08-30-2011, 07:48 PM
Seems that every player just tries to hit harder and harder. Seriously, that's your plan? I don't get it. You are not going to over power her so why do you keep beating your head against the wall trying to out hit her?

When I play an opponent that is a much stronger baseline banger, I'm not going to just stand there and try to trade shots. He will win 99.9% of the time. Why play to his strengths?

Try something different for once! Get them out of their comfort zone. Lob, moon ball, drop shot, short balls, come to the net......just do something different!

djNEiGht
08-30-2011, 07:52 PM
or dink the ball when you have a perfect opp for an overhead smash

Baxter
08-30-2011, 07:57 PM
or dink the ball when you have a perfect opp for an overhead smash

So you saw the match. It was hopeless anyway, but that was an amazingly stupid shot selection. Serena is fast!

Tanya
08-30-2011, 08:04 PM
or dink the ball when you have a perfect opp for an overhead smash

Haha! Total brainfart that was.

Anyway, the problem is that many of today's young girls don't have any plan B. Jovanovski has no variety to her game, she's all about ball-bashing. Unfortunately not only is Serena an even better ball-basher than her, she also has the rest of the tools (movement, serve, net play, defense, mental toughness) in her repertoire. Bojana was doomed from the beginning...

Venus and Serena practically pioneered the power-era of women's tennis. They were two of the originals! These girls these days are nothing more than ****-poor attempts at clones of the Serena/Venus game. The problem with this is that they focus so much on the power aspect of their game that they don't develop anything else. Serena and Venus were successful with their high-risk power tennis because they had numerous other tools to bail them out when it failed. These new girls don't.

flyinghippos101
08-30-2011, 08:05 PM
In the WTA, one must just simply smack the ball as hard as they can and hope it goes in. There's no such thing as slices, net play and drop shots. Just groundstrokes, unless you're Stosur or Clijsters. But even then those two players don't seem to mind slugging it out from the baseline these days

All-rounder
08-30-2011, 08:11 PM
You're expecting strategy in women's tennis nowadays? I would consider that a high expectation.

split-step
08-30-2011, 08:16 PM
Try something different for once! Get them out of their comfort zone. Lob, moon ball, drop shot, short balls, come to the net......just do something different!

A number of things
- Moonball and lobs against Serena will get you sent home just as quick. The girl was playing to her strengths which just weren't close to good enough against Serena.

The biggest thing about Serena is the serve. Serena literally has the greatest female serve of all time. How many times did the girl roll her eyes when Serena would hit an ace.
You can play 2 awesome points on Serena's serve so that she's 0-30 and then she will fire 3 clutch aces in the corners for game point.
Her serve puts massive pressure on her opponent's serve and most girls have fail serves. This chick started trying to hit her serve harder but again, Serena has a huge return and was painting the baseline with her returns.

If you want to beat Serena, you have to be able to hold your own against her pace. Take her shots early and redirect the balls with angles to make her move. Serena gets to a lot of balls and on the run can come up with really good angles so you must also be a very good mover.

This is how Henin, Clijsters and to a lesser extent Venus beat her.

Big_Dangerous
08-30-2011, 08:18 PM
In the WTA, one must just simply smack the ball as hard as they can and hope it goes in. There's no such thing as slices, net play and drop shots. Just groundstrokes, unless you're Stosur or Clijsters. But even then those two players don't seem to mind slugging it out from the baseline these days

Petra Cetkovska slices a lot! :)

split-step
08-30-2011, 08:20 PM
Another thing to note is that Serena was the one who hit deep loopers in this match.
Several times she took pace off the ball and looped it deep, forcing Bojana to generate her own pace while giving Serena time to recover.

If Bojana started moonballing, it would have been over even quicker.
I mean, Serena hits swing volleys from no mans land like it's nothing and her overhead is solid.

hugobosstachini
08-30-2011, 08:27 PM
ROFL I agree with the OP but you can't force girls who do not have plan B to suddenly adopt one in Arthur Ashe stadium in front of many people...

Jovanovski's movement sucks and even if she wanted to play variances she doesn't have the wheels to get behind the shots in the eventuality Serena hits and offensive shot out of them...

She's always on the stretch, so slow...

In the WTA, one must just simply smack the ball as hard as they can and hope it goes in. There's no such thing as slices, net play and drop shots. Just groundstrokes, unless you're Stosur or Clijsters. But even then those two players don't seem to mind slugging it out from the baseline these days

One of the best shots to handcuff Serena is the slice, many girls have a good slice but they prefer ditch it for the 2H BH and take a winner the other side than to give themselves time in the exchange to get back on foot...

I think drop-shots against Serena would be useless she's very very explosive to move forward...

One thing I find dumb with the girls when they play Serena is on return of serve - Serena generally fires big serves yet very little girls have the ingenuity to just block it back into play instead of taking a full cut at the ball which has very little chance to land in if you're not one of these gifted returners...

Very little also back up instead they have the ought to think that they can blast a 123 mph serve as a winner big LOL !

So it often goes as so, ace by Serena or plain dumb UE by her opponent then you get the "Serena has the best serve... bla bla bla nonsense"...

Roy125
08-30-2011, 08:50 PM
The only way to defeat Serena is to move her around. Then she'll make more errors and will be more vulnerable to losing. That's how Clijsters was able to defeat her two years ago.

rommil
08-30-2011, 08:52 PM
Hit a lob that lands near the food court and Serena won't be back.

cc0509
08-30-2011, 08:56 PM
Hit a lob that lands near the food court and Serena won't be back.

I have to admit, that one made me smile. :twisted:

split-step
08-30-2011, 08:58 PM
One of the best shots to handcuff Serena is the slice,

This is an oversimplification. It's not the slice that bothers Serena. It's the lack of rhythm. So a heavy topspin shot, followed by a slice and another slice then a hard flat shot etc. It's this combo (amongst other things) that kept Serena on her toes against Henin and to a lesser extent Mauresmo.

One thing I find dumb with the girls when they play Serena is on return of serve - Serena generally fires big serves yet very little girls have the ingenuity to just block it back into play instead of taking a full cut at the ball which has very little chance to land in if you're not one of these gifted returners...

You make it sound like it's the easiest thing in the world to do, and if done will guarantee success. Mauresmo does this well, blocking the serve back. In fact, she used it to great effect in Wimbledon 06 SF against Maria to get her off her game. However, it didn't work on Serena (and Serena wasn't serving as well back then). Serena moves too well and will make you pay for a blocked service return, especially if it lands short.

So it often goes as so, ace by Serena or plain dumb UE by her opponent then you get the "Serena has the best serve... bla bla bla nonsense"...

Whose serve is better and more effective?

The only way to defeat Serena is to move her around. Then she'll make more errors and will be more vulnerable to losing. That's how Clijsters was able to defeat her two years ago.

Exactly.

split-step
08-30-2011, 08:59 PM
Hit a lob that lands near the food court and Serena won't be back.

I lol'd.

10 char

MichaelNadal
08-30-2011, 09:00 PM
The only way to defeat Serena is to move her around. Then she'll make more errors and will be more vulnerable to losing. That's how Clijsters was able to defeat her two years ago.

Correction, Serena beat herself :) :twisted:

Roy125
08-30-2011, 09:02 PM
Correction, Serena beat herself :) :twisted:

Lol, technically that's true.. But overall, she had no answers to Clijster's game plan that day.

soyizgood
08-30-2011, 09:08 PM
The players that gave or have given Serena the most problems were players that kept Serena on her toes. Hingis and Henin mixed up pace, but had the ability to pull the trigger which Serena had to respect. Dementieva and Venus had great agility for their height and could take away Serena's recovery time. Clijsters feeds off Serena's pace and has no fear of Serena while keeping her errors to a minimum.

All those ladies mentioned are from to 80-83 class. You don't really see anyone from the 84-91 group that can possess a good balance of power, control, and purpose in their games. Jankovic has given Serena problems before, relying on her quickness, ability to keep her errors low, and still produce shots that force Serena across the court all match long.

Sharapova hasn't beaten Serena since 2004. Has she really learned from her losses, including a couple of ugly ones? She has to rely on sheer firepower, hope her double faults stay low, and pray that Serena plays a C- game. If Serena is focused, I doubt any of Sharapova's hopes come to fruition.

Serena is an incredible player, but hardly unbeatable. Zheng Jie twice in the past 3 years pushed Serena to three sets and she's only 5'4". In fact, she often steps inside the baseline to return Serena's serves. Takes the ball early to feed off Serena's pace and can redirect the ball very effectively, when she's healthy.

Venus is the only pure ballbasher other than Capriati that's had some success against Serena, but Venus has played against Serena for over 20 years and knows her game and mindset really well. In Venus' case, if Venus had made a few tweaks in her earlier years to her 2nd serve and her forehand we might be talking about her being the one with 13 slams. She's more physically gifted than Serena, but Serena has the more refined game.

I just get the feeling today's ladies are just waiting for Serena to retire rather than figure out some means of competing against her.

jerriy
08-30-2011, 09:34 PM
^ Excellent points.

The last player to defeat Serena was Bartoli, a mid-twenties player with lots of experience on the tour.

I dunno when the last time is that Serena lost a match to a young up-and-comer but it must have been a long time ago
.

soyizgood
08-30-2011, 10:44 PM
^ Excellent points.

The last player to defeat Serena was Bartoli, a mid-twenties player with lots of experience on the tour.

I dunno when the last time is that Serena lost a match to a young up-and-comer but it must have been a long time ago
.

Serena lost to Azarenka at Miami 2009. Serena was injured somewhat, but Azarenka at the AO that year gave Serena all she could handle before retiring. In the Generation Suck defense, Serena's part-time playing means fewer opportunities to face her. Wozniacki had match point vs Serena at an AO tune-up event in 2010 before Serena won.

Serena is more vulnerable at Premier and below events because she doesn't care much for them and/or uses them just to work her way back into shape. That might result in some up-and-comer snagging a win from time to time.

As it is, most of the young tour players and aspiring junior players have little desire or will to play inside the baseline. You need to have a solid all-around game to have any real chance of beating Serena. You need to put Serena on the defensive with good shot selection, a mindset to sometimes come and finish at the net, and the belief you have what it takes to win just to name a few. It's in very short supply with these girls. If Wozniacki can win so many matches just by allowing her opponents to commit suicide when their A game doesn't work, how are these girls going to beat an in-form, focused Serena? I just see a very sloppy, anarchistic era coming up post-Serena.

dannykl
08-30-2011, 10:59 PM
Today's top ranking young ladies just suck. They are not as good as top players in the 90's or early 2000's were.

There are some ways to defeat such a good player like Serena: Hingis, Rubin, Capriati, Henin, Bammer ,Sun, old near retiring Graf, Jankovic, Jidkova, Mary Joe, Kim or Suarez, they have all beaten Serena via different ways.

Either you play smart like Hingis or you defend well like Jankovic.

Either you mix things up and attack frequently with lethal shots like Graf or Henin or you consistently respond to Serena's shots with decent deep and patience like Rubin or Mary Joe.

Either you confront her power directly like Kim, Lindsay or Capriati or you use slice or topspin to neutralize Serena's power like Suarez, Sun or Bammer.

Serena has so many weapons, player have to find her relative weakness to beat her. Her movement is one of her liability. She is not a top mover on court. Use different shots to move her around will bring troubles to her.

Consistency is also her relative weakness. Her shot can sometimes go off, especially her forehand.

However today's girls are no good in movement as well. They are far more inconsistent than the Williams. So they have little chance to challenge Serena if they keep playing such a one-dimensional game with poor movement and no consistency.

jodd
08-31-2011, 05:01 AM
one of the best strategies i've seen involves hitting straight at her feet. Serena is a very good mover, and may actually hit better on the run, but throughout her career has had trouble consistently taking the tiny adjustment steps to set up perfectly for shots (down the middle).

Many times she can get away with it because she has such great coordination and strength that hitting the ball from an awkward position does little to affect the authority of her strokes, however, when the ball is coming right at her, the problem is immediately exposed.

if you look at highlights of her match with clijsters in '09, it's not just that she was on the move, it's that clijsters was handcuffing serena by giving her a deep ball, relatively close to her body, and then capitalizing on the weak reply to hit an absurd angle and then finish the point.

Azarenka and Li Na have played Serena so tough because they take the ball EARLY. Serena does not handle decreased recovery time very well. I'm not quite sure why Henin was such a difficult match-up for Serena.

I've never seen Henin as a mix-it-up type, yes she had an excellent slice and all court game, and she did hit with a good amount of topspin, but all of the matches I've seen her win against Serena have looked like forehand shoot-em-ups.

I think the fact that we are having this discussion is a testament to the texture of Serena's game. Yes she has great power and movement, but she's also a very adaptable player. I don't think she has a losing head-to-head against any of the players mentioned as examples of successful implementation of anti-serena game plans.

hugobosstachini
08-31-2011, 05:49 AM
This is an oversimplification. It's not the slice that bothers Serena. It's the lack of rhythm. So a heavy topspin shot, followed by a slice and another slice then a hard flat shot etc. It's this combo (amongst other things) that kept Serena on her toes against Henin and to a lesser extent Mauresmo.

:) Well yes, I didn't mean to say that the slice on it's own would beat Serena lol a player who does that on it's own has very little chances --

As you stated, a slice combined with any other shot or group of shots, could be a hard ball, a top spin shot with a wider of shorter angle etc... would be disrupting to her rhythm... ;)

Actually I believe a player like Bernard Tomic's talent would something I would like to see in the WTA one day, he doesn't over-loop or spin his shots like Murray, he has these sort of relatively flat shots that he varies in pace, angles etc... combined with his good 1H slice + variety... and suddenly he can just change rhythm from almost anywhere on the court for a winner...

You make it sound like it's the easiest thing in the world to do, and if done will guarantee success. Mauresmo does this well, blocking the serve back. In fact, she used it to great effect in Wimbledon 06 SF against Maria to get her off her game. However, it didn't work on Serena (and Serena wasn't serving as well back then). Serena moves too well and will make you pay for a blocked service return, especially if it lands short.

I think Mauresmo didn't have a big enough game for Serena which for comparison Justine had... Mauresmo was some kind of artist IMO and it's complicated to always overtake big babes with so much variances -- Justine she with the exceptional variety she had was also able to go toe to toe with Serena and completely blow her off the court at times and there's nothing Serena could do than just admire what talent really looked like... Mauresmo was never really able to show this kind of big babe tennis but her manner of being aggressive was still as beautiful, transitioning forward, S&V, R&V etc...

When Justine came back she decided to go all out and she lost that balance she had from her glory days... but Justine's offense at her peak was just beautiful, she could take so much time away from Serena - half-volleying shots, taking the ball early, stepping into each and every ball, transitioning forward etc...

I make it sound like it's easy but that's the most effective strategy when playing Serena's serve... I'm not saying that it you will win 100% of points doing so but you will win 30 or 40% of points on her service games as opposed to 3 or 4% when you're trying to play a full swing... and that's all the problems with the girls, they prefer win no points with UEs since the return of serves than at least 2 out of 4 in exchanges which is already a good start.

Serena is very sensitive in exchanges, people try to make her footwork look some kind of Genius in action but she's just explosive that's all, she's easy to put on stretch if you have some kind of correct strategy and if you have no problems with power... the power that she generates in her shots persistently is a barrier which makes it difficult to take over her overall weak movement...

Bojana often was attempting in all struggles at times in the start of match to fixate Serena in the diagonals with some short angles or lift balls in the long diagonal and get the shot to redirect DTL and put Serena in difficulty - I found the idea correct at first but problem her footwork sucked and the slightest acceleration of the american was destabilizing to her so she could barely stay toe to toe in genuine rallies more than 3 or 4 shots without being rocked to get that DTL BH or FH... and her attempts of taking the DTL often resulted in huge mishits, UEs etc... another thing her rally balls are meh, no weight into them, no intent...

I personally saw nothing that impressive about Serena so much her opponent was quality-less last night !

Whose serve is better and more effective?

Serena's serve is good I'm not saying differently but you must admit thought that the lack of technique on the WTA tour participates a lot in it's so said greatness...

IK this is virtually impossible but I would just like to see Serena's unique serve against the return of serves of Federer, Murray, Djokovic or even Nadal to see how many shots more would they bring into play with their technique which is much much much more varied than on the WTA tour... I think it's not even close.

Very few girls can return a 123 mph serve with there go to grip, you have Kvitova, Azarenka from the top of my head - when you do not have these natural returning skills it makes no sense trying to return like these girls, try something else anyways practice something else, you're losing 70-80% of points anyways what would it change for you to just simply put a quality ball back into play ? You're already losing more than half the points any ways. I'm not saying you have to do that on every every serve.

Telepatic
08-31-2011, 06:01 AM
They have to move around Serena with some drop shots, lobs, slices.. And you must have a good serve.

Some variety is needed but unfortunately in WTA variety is non existent and nobody is serving well beside Serena and Kim in her in form days.

Ronaldo
08-31-2011, 06:41 AM
You're expecting strategy in women's tennis nowadays? I would consider that a high expectation.

Forgotabout DF Schiavone!

jmverdugo
08-31-2011, 06:49 AM
Serena is just too good, the key is to move her around side to side and net to baseline but it is easier said than done. Even if you have the tools, how are you going to hit a flat ball that is coming at 80mph? is really hard, must to have the right timing and control to put that ball back in a corner, I think this is why some of the girls just smack the ball back, not because that is all they know but because it is all the can do.

kishnabe
08-31-2011, 07:09 AM
Hit a lob that lands near the food court and Serena won't be back.

LOL that was mean!

pmerk34
08-31-2011, 07:28 AM
ROFL I agree with the OP but you can't force girls who do not have plan B to suddenly adopt one in Arthur Ashe stadium in front of many people...

Jovanovski's movement sucks and even if she wanted to play variances she doesn't have the wheels to get behind the shots in the eventuality Serena hits and offensive shot out of them...

She's always on the stretch, so slow...



One of the best shots to handcuff Serena is the slice, many girls have a good slice but they prefer ditch it for the 2H BH and take a winner the other side than to give themselves time in the exchange to get back on foot...

I think drop-shots against Serena would be useless she's very very explosive to move forward...

One thing I find dumb with the girls when they play Serena is on return of serve - Serena generally fires big serves yet very little girls have the ingenuity to just block it back into play instead of taking a full cut at the ball which has very little chance to land in if you're not one of these gifted returners...

Very little also back up instead they have the ought to think that they can blast a 123 mph serve as a winner big LOL !

So it often goes as so, ace by Serena or plain dumb UE by her opponent then you get the "Serena has the best serve... bla bla bla nonsense"...

Serena has the best female serve of all time. It's becoming Sampras like the way it bails her out of love 30 games. No other woman in tennis history has been able to fire clean aces at will like she does.

As to the rest of your post I don't often quote Mike Tyson but he once responded to a question with "Everybody has plan until they get hit in the mouth"


Jovanovski got hit in the mouth last night. she's never seen power off the ground like that before and she couldn't deal with it. And she certainly, unless she practices with men, has never seen a serve like that.

pmerk34
08-31-2011, 07:30 AM
They have to move around Serena with some drop shots, lobs, slices.. And you must have a good serve.

Some variety is needed but unfortunately in WTA variety is non existent and nobody is serving well beside Serena and Kim in her in form days.

I don't know why this is limited to the Women's game this criticism? Fed then Nadal now Djoker have dominated men's tennis. Where is/was the variety to stop them? Novak is 53-1

TERRASTAR18
08-31-2011, 07:36 AM
ROFL I agree with the OP but you can't force girls who do not have plan B to suddenly adopt one in Arthur Ashe stadium in front of many people...

Jovanovski's movement sucks and even if she wanted to play variances she doesn't have the wheels to get behind the shots in the eventuality Serena hits and offensive shot out of them...

She's always on the stretch, so slow...



One of the best shots to handcuff Serena is the slice, many girls have a good slice but they prefer ditch it for the 2H BH and take a winner the other side than to give themselves time in the exchange to get back on foot...

I think drop-shots against Serena would be useless she's very very explosive to move forward...

One thing I find dumb with the girls when they play Serena is on return of serve - Serena generally fires big serves yet very little girls have the ingenuity to just block it back into play instead of taking a full cut at the ball which has very little chance to land in if you're not one of these gifted returners...

Very little also back up instead they have the ought to think that they can blast a 123 mph serve as a winner big LOL !

So it often goes as so, ace by Serena or plain dumb UE by her opponent then you get the "Serena has the best serve... bla bla bla nonsense"...

navaratilova speaks nonsense? when a great returner like venus struggles with it, then it's a pretty damn good serve.

TERRASTAR18
08-31-2011, 07:38 AM
The only way to defeat Serena is to move her around. Then she'll make more errors and will be more vulnerable to losing. That's how Clijsters was able to defeat her two years ago.

true but i thought serena should have attacked the net more to pressure kimmy.

TERRASTAR18
08-31-2011, 07:54 AM
The players that gave or have given Serena the most problems were players that kept Serena on her toes. Hingis and Henin mixed up pace, but had the ability to pull the trigger which Serena had to respect. Dementieva and Venus had great agility for their height and could take away Serena's recovery time. Clijsters feeds off Serena's pace and has no fear of Serena while keeping her errors to a minimum.

All those ladies mentioned are from to 80-83 class. You don't really see anyone from the 84-91 group that can possess a good balance of power, control, and purpose in their games. Jankovic has given Serena problems before, relying on her quickness, ability to keep her errors low, and still produce shots that force Serena across the court all match long.

Sharapova hasn't beaten Serena since 2004. Has she really learned from her losses, including a couple of ugly ones? She has to rely on sheer firepower, hope her double faults stay low, and pray that Serena plays a C- game. If Serena is focused, I doubt any of Sharapova's hopes come to fruition.

Serena is an incredible player, but hardly unbeatable. Zheng Jie twice in the past 3 years pushed Serena to three sets and she's only 5'4". In fact, she often steps inside the baseline to return Serena's serves. Takes the ball early to feed off Serena's pace and can redirect the ball very effectively, when she's healthy.

Venus is the only pure ballbasher other than Capriati that's had some success against Serena, but Venus has played against Serena for over 20 years and knows her game and mindset really well. In Venus' case, if Venus had made a few tweaks in her earlier years to her 2nd serve and her forehand we might be talking about her being the one with 13 slams. She's more physically gifted than Serena, but Serena has the more refined game.

I just get the feeling today's ladies are just waiting for Serena to retire rather than figure out some means of competing against her.

no she isn't, she has some of the best volleys and net play in the game. and has a world class swing volley.

jerriy
08-31-2011, 08:57 AM
I don't know why this is limited to the Women's game this criticism? Fed then Nadal now Djoker have dominated men's tennis. Where is/was the variety to stop them? Novak is 53-1

What claptrap is this?

Djoker is actually proof of the exact opposite of your allegation. "Dominating Dkoker" is an ultra brand new concept that didn't exist even last year. Something that has absolutely no equivalent in the WTA tour. Not even a remote equivalent.

On the other hand next year will be the tenth anniversary of Serena's ancient 4 in a row slam run of 2002-2003. And guess what? She actually has BETTER chance of repeating that feat now ten years later!! (you can't say the same for ATP players who won slams 10 years ago) meanwhile, Geriatrina will have virtually no credible challenge from the future generation if she wants to repeat that feat, starting this week and the next in NYC)
.

ttbrowne
08-31-2011, 08:59 AM
I was thinking the same thing. Hell, Change to something even if it's wrong. You've exhausted your original GP. It doen't have to be drastic but do ANYTHING different.

TERRASTAR18
08-31-2011, 09:03 AM
Today's top ranking young ladies just suck. They are not as good as top players in the 90's or early 2000's were.

There are some ways to defeat such a good player like Serena: Hingis, Rubin, Capriati, Henin, Bammer ,Sun, old near retiring Graf, Jankovic, Jidkova, Mary Joe, Kim or Suarez, they have all beaten Serena via different ways.

Either you play smart like Hingis or you defend well like Jankovic.

Either you mix things up and attack frequently with lethal shots like Graf or Henin or you consistently respond to Serena's shots with decent deep and patience like Rubin or Mary Joe.

Either you confront her power directly like Kim, Lindsay or Capriati or you use slice or topspin to neutralize Serena's power like Suarez, Sun or Bammer.

Serena has so many weapons, player have to find her relative weakness to beat her. Her movement is one of her liability. She is not a top mover on court. Use different shots to move her around will bring troubles to her.

Consistency is also her relative weakness. Her shot can sometimes go off, especially her forehand.

However today's girls are no good in movement as well. They are far more inconsistent than the Williams. So they have little chance to challenge Serena if they keep playing such a one-dimensional game with poor movement and no consistency.
those are her two biggest strengths next to her bh and serve.

TERRASTAR18
08-31-2011, 09:10 AM
What claptrap is this?

Djoker is actually proof of the versatility of ATP, the exact opposite of your allegation. "Dominating Dkoker" is an ultra brand new concept that didn't exist even last year and that has absolutely no equivalent in WTA. Not even a remote equivalent.

On the other hand next year will be the tenth anniversary of Geriatrena's ancient 4 in a row slam of 2002-2003. And guess what? She actually has BETTER chance of repeating that now ten years later (she'll have virtually no credible challenge from the future generation if she wants to repeat that feat, starting this week and the next in NYC)
.

what variety in the men's game? fed dominated for 4 years against overrated roddick and hewitt. nadal then dominated, now djokovic is playing in weakened field- old and done fed, mental midget nadal and overrated murray.
meanwhile since the serena slam, you've had sw of course, but also venus,henin,mauresmo,clisters, sharapova and kuzzy win multiple slams. not to mention schiavone,li na, myskina, ivanovic,and kvitova win titles.

ATXtennisaddict
08-31-2011, 09:18 AM
The women who have some variety in their game are not good and consistent enough, therefore they lose.

jerriy
08-31-2011, 09:19 AM
what variety in the men's game? fed dominated for 4 years against overrated roddick and hewittHindsight garbage.

Name one credible person who regarded Roddick and Hewitt as overrated BACK THEN (without 20/20 hind sight) and you may have a point.

nadal then dominatedYou are sounding comical (notice how you're talking about yet another new person? Meanwhile WTA is still stuck with Serena.


See, you keep saying the ATP field is weak as WTA but you keep naming new names of players who dominate while the WTA is stuck with the original "generation mate" of Hewitt and Roddick.

The proper ATP WTA comparison would have been legit if Roddick and Hewitt, had still been the favorite to win the current US open. THAT's how you make legit comparisons.

LDVTennis
08-31-2011, 09:23 AM
A second-generation Sanchez-Vicario would have the game to beat Serena. Heck, the first generation Vicario has a winning head-to-head versus Serena.

With Clijsters injured, I just don't see anyone out there like that.

Remember though, Serena's body is bound to breakdown.

CDestroyer
08-31-2011, 09:24 AM
OP you are right. You can't overpower him.

They should be making that heffer move as much as possible.

ivan_the_terrible
08-31-2011, 09:27 AM
In the same vein as the food court comment, I'd say invite her to the wedding of some thrashy 'reality' star. You'd be amazed how fast that big toe will swell up to the size of a grapefruit :twisted:

THUNDERVOLLEY
08-31-2011, 09:30 AM
Today's top ranking young ladies just suck. They are not as good as top players in the 90's or early 2000's were.

There are some ways to defeat such a good player like Serena: Hingis, Rubin, Capriati, Henin, Bammer ,Sun, old near retiring Graf, Jankovic, Jidkova, Mary Joe, Kim or Suarez, they have all beaten Serena via different ways.

Either you play smart like Hingis or you defend well like Jankovic.

Either you mix things up and attack frequently with lethal shots like Graf or Henin or you consistently respond to Serena's shots with decent deep and patience like Rubin or Mary Joe.

Either you confront her power directly like Kim, Lindsay or Capriati or you use slice or topspin to neutralize Serena's power like Suarez, Sun or Bammer.

Serena has so many weapons, player have to find her relative weakness to beat her. Her movement is one of her liability. She is not a top mover on court. Use different shots to move her around will bring troubles to her.

Consistency is also her relative weakness. Her shot can sometimes go off, especially her forehand.

However today's girls are no good in movement as well. They are far more inconsistent than the Williams. So they have little chance to challenge Serena if they keep playing such a one-dimensional game with poor movement and no consistency.

Dannykl, all of the strategies you posted are not posessed by any one player, or can be executed as easy as it may seem--its all pieces of tactics per player, which is why Williams was never overwhelmed by the strategies of Jennifer, Bammer (one of her two victories very hard fought after dropping the 1st set), Hingis (she already suffered several losses to baby SW, but their last 3 meetings were easy victories as SW matured), and others.

Winning against a top player cannot be the result of one tactic which may have worked for another in the past--for no other reason than Serena (or anyone, really) learns from the experience; players of her level will not forget the little tricks opponents use to take them out of their own game, so it is crucial for players--going forward--to develop their own game--an offensive game--in order to even think about a chance against one with as much in the toolbox as the greater players such as Serena.

Ronaldo
08-31-2011, 09:34 AM
In the same vein as the food court comment, I'd say invite her to the wedding of some thrashy 'reality' star. You'd be amazed how fast that big toe will swell up to the size of a grapefruit :twisted:

What? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHLD4LvnPTI

zagor
08-31-2011, 09:53 AM
Seems that every player just tries to hit harder and harder. Seriously, that's your plan?

You seem to be under illusion that 99% WTA players in the current field have any other gameplan beside that.

THUNDERVOLLEY
08-31-2011, 10:15 AM
You seem to be under illusion that 99% WTA players in the current field have any other gameplan beside that.

I'm guessing guitarplayer was surprised that she thought ball bashing would work at all, when it does not work for anyone else. Perhaps guitarplayer expected the player to employ other skills her trainers drilled into her, rather than go on automatic and hit as hard as possible--after all, this crop of players are taught to do more than one thing....even if they forget it when playing.

TERRASTAR18
08-31-2011, 11:15 AM
Hindsight garbage.

Name one credible person who regarded Roddick and Hewitt as overrated BACK THEN (without 20/20 hind sight) and you may have a point.

You are sounding comical (notice how you're talking about yet another new person? Meanwhile WTA is still stuck with Serena.


See, you keep saying the ATP field is weak as WTA but you keep naming new names of players who dominate while the WTA is stuck with the original "generation mate" of Hewitt and Roddick.

The proper ATP WTA comparison would have been legit if Roddick and Hewitt, had still been the favorite to win the current US open. THAT's how you make legit comparisons.

point 1- back then is of no significance, the point is the results.....hewitt and roddick turned out to be flashes in the pan, so experts' opinions mean nothing...so fed dominated a weak era until nadal came along, who had it for all of one year. then djokovic took over....and none of it overlapped.
point2- the little amount of gs competitors shows how weak the field is, the large amount of of gs winners for the women shows hw strong and diverse it is.
point3- i never said the wta is weak, i did say the atp is..
point 4- you set the parameters of the amount of competiton on both tours since the serena slam.....don't try to change it because you have no argument. btw
point5- we are not talking aout hewitt and roddick, they were used as examples of the weak competition fed faced,that's all. since we are in the 2 year bubble of djoker,they are irrelevant past 2005 to this discussion. but even if you want to make that comparison, kimmy was a top challenger in 2003-2005 and is still one excluding injury,today.

hugobosstachini
08-31-2011, 12:26 PM
Serena has the best female serve of all time. It's becoming Sampras like the way it bails her out of love 30 games. No other woman in tennis history has been able to fire clean aces at will like she does.

As to the rest of your post I don't often quote Mike Tyson but he once responded to a question with "Everybody has plan until they get hit in the mouth"


Jovanovski got hit in the mouth last night. she's never seen power off the ground like that before and she couldn't deal with it. And she certainly, unless she practices with men, has never seen a serve like that.

I'm not contradicting Serena's serve as being good but you can't contradict the fact that girl's strategies overall sucks when it is asked to do something else than swinging at the ball - you can't deny that this one dimensional point of view from them also plays a big role in Serena's serving efficiency.

As for Bojana she did what she could on AA stadium it was her first time on court of such dimensions she did what she could and it wasn't sufficient - I'm still waiting to see Serena against a much more accomplished player.

navaratilova speaks nonsense? when a great returner like venus struggles with it, then it's a pretty damn good serve.

Venus a great returner ? Are you sure about that ?

ben123
08-31-2011, 01:08 PM
yop agree at the whole thread.

i was also everytime thinking why girl are you hitting with power to serena ... why dont you move her around ... i gave up on this and thought well these girls are top 100 they have to know their stuff. just cant believe top 100 wta players have no brain

sonicare
08-31-2011, 01:51 PM
LMAO at you ******s

Bunch of armchair losers thinking they have it all figured out.

Listen idiots, Serena's opponents live,eat and breathe tennis. If it was that easy, they would have done it by now.

If I set you a match with Federer and say "don't worry, just hold serve by hitting all 4 corners at 130mph, try and break his serve by returning winners dtl and if you go to a tie break, just win them"

That is moronic advice.. just like some of the nonsense posted here like:

- just move her around
- bring her to net and lob her
- hit right at her feet

Most of you are just clowns. plain and simple.

Serena is GOAT and anyone that disagrees is a hater

ChiefAce
08-31-2011, 02:06 PM
Serena no longer plays a ball bashing style, she simply lets these buffoons make an error after 4 shots while defending and holding her service games. If she didn't have the serve it would be a different story, but her serve allows her free points while also letting her play defensively on her opponents serve games to get breaks of serve. The good news is you can see the younger generation is potentially integrating some varitey into their games so they can break the ball bashing mode, but the girls at the top still play mostly the same game. A well rounded and intelligent player like Clijsters is by far the worst match up for Serena. She moves well, strikes the ball well, and doesn't go for broke during the point shot after shot. Right now the only hope of most of the ball bashers is that they are on fire for an entire match.

ben123
08-31-2011, 02:36 PM
Listen idiots, Serena's opponents live,eat and breathe tennis. If it was that easy, they would have done it by now.

yes i know but i still dont get why many players just hit with all their power straight to serena without any angles ..

seriously can you explain this to me :|

guitarplayer
08-31-2011, 02:44 PM
Do some of these girls not have a trainer, nutrition help?

THUNDERVOLLEY
08-31-2011, 02:44 PM
yes i know but i still dont get why many players just hit with all their power straight to serena without any angles ..

seriously can you explain this to me :|

Because all of their training goes out of the window when facing a great player with too many weapons and a wealth of experience. With no answes for that, they run on autopilot, which means blasting balls, hoping for a point.

guitarplayer
08-31-2011, 02:53 PM
Are you serious? If so.......you are the official tw idiot.


LMAO at you ******s

Bunch of armchair losers thinking they have it all figured out.

Listen idiots, Serena's opponents live,eat and breathe tennis. If it was that easy, they would have done it by now.

If I set you a match with Federer and say "don't worry, just hold serve by hitting all 4 corners at 130mph, try and break his serve by returning winners dtl and if you go to a tie break, just win them"

That is moronic advice.. just like some of the nonsense posted here like:

- just move her around
- bring her to net and lob her
- hit right at her feet

Most of you are just clowns. plain and simple.

Serena is GOAT and anyone that disagrees is a hater

sonicare
08-31-2011, 02:57 PM
yes i know but i still dont get why many players just hit with all their power straight to serena without any angles ..

seriously can you explain this to me :|

I dont understand why guys just dont hit 100mph forehand winners against DJOKOVIC.

can you explain that to me?

sonicare
08-31-2011, 02:58 PM
Are you serious? If so.......you are the official tw idiot.

Status: rookie

LMAO

ben123
08-31-2011, 03:03 PM
I dont understand why guys just dont hit 100mph forehand winners against DJOKOVIC.

can you explain that to me?

ok i see.. i guess you have no answer

i think i can expect that top 100 wta players can at least change their game plan from hitting dumb to serena to hitting less fast but with more angles... or is a top 100 wta player too bad to play any angles because serena is so good right?

never mind

TMF
08-31-2011, 03:20 PM
Serena is GOAT and anyone that disagrees is a hater

Nope. I don't care if anyone hate or love Serena, it doesn't change the fact Serena at best can only be tier II great. History are not on your side. Sorry if it hurts.


IN THE OPEN ERA

Most GS titles
player total
1 Steffi Graf 22
2 Martina Navratilova 18
2 Chris Evert 18
4 Serena Williams 13
5 Margaret Court 11
6 Monica Seles 9
7 Billie Jean King 8
8 Justine Henin 7
8 Evonne Goolagong Cawley 7
8 Venus Williams 7

Most GS finals
Rank Name Total
1 Chris Evert 34 (18 )
2 Martina Navrátilová 32 (18 )
3 Steffi Graf 31 (22)
4 Evonne Goolagong 18 (7)
5 Serena Williams 16 (13)
6 Venus Williams 14 (7)
7 Monica Seles 13 (9)
8 Margaret Court 12 (11)
8 Martina Hingis 12 (5)
8 Billie Jean Moffitt 12 (8 )

Most single titles
Rank Player Singles
1 Martina Navratilova 167
2 Chris Evert 157
3 Steffi Graf 107
4 Margaret Court 92
5 Evonne Goolagong Cawley 68
6 Billie Jean King 67
7 Lindsay Davenport 55
8 Virginia Wade 55
9 Monica Seles 53
10 Hingis 45

Most weeks at #1
Rank Player weeks
1 Steffi Graf 377
2 Martina Navratilova 332
3 Chris Evert 260
4 Martina Hingis 209
5 Monica Seles 178
6 Justine Henin * 117
7 Lindsay Davenport 98
8 Serena Williams * 111
9 Amélie Mauresmo 39
10 Dinara Safina * 26

Consecutive weeks at #1
1 Steffi Graf (1) 186
2 Martina Navratilova (1) 156
3 Chris Evert (1) 113
4 Steffi Graf (2) 94
5 Monica Seles (1) 91
6 Martina Navratilova (2) 90
7 Steffi Graf (3) 87
8 Martina Hingis (1) 80
9 Chris Evert (2) 76
10 Martina Hingis (2) 73

Year end No. 1 players
player year
Steffi Graf 8
Martina Navratilova 7
Chris Evert 5
Lindsay Davenport 4
Justine Henin 3
Martina Hingis
Monica Seles
Serena Williams 2
Jelena Jankovic 1
Caroline Wozniacki 1

All surface single winning percentage
Rank Player Wins Losses Win %
1 Margaret Court 593 56 91.37
2 Chris Evert 1309 146 89.97
3 Steffi Graf 902 115 88.69
4 Martina Navratilova 1442 219 86.82
5 Monica Seles 595 122 82.98
6 Serena Williams*[1] 474 101 82.43
7 Justine Henin* 503 109 82.18
8 Billie Jean King 695 155 81.76
9 Evonne Goolagong Cawley 704 165 81.01

Clay court singles career winning percentage
Rank Player Wins Losses Win %
1 Chris Evert 316 20 94.05
2 Steffi Graf 273 30 90.1
3 Justine Henin* 122 19 86.52
4 Monica Seles 142 25 85.03
5 Martina Hingis 109 25 81.34
6 Martina Navratilova 202 47 81.12
7 Gabriela Sabatini 196 49 80
8 Venus Williams* 139 38 78.53
9 Lindsay Davenport 120 35 77.42
10 Conchita Martinez 294 88 76.96

Hard court singles career winning percentage
Rank Player Wins Losses Win %
1 Steffi Graf 335 36 90.3
2 Chris Evert 304 37 89.15
3 Martina Navratilova 340 48 87.63
4 Monica Seles 311 59 84.05
5 Serena Williams* 294 58 83.52
6 Kim Clijsters* 313 65 82.80
7 Justine Henin* 251 56 81.76
8 Venus Williams* 32 79 80.78
9 Maria Sharapova* 247 60 80.46
10 Lindsay Davenport 472 115 80.41

Grass court singles career winning percentage
Rank Player Wins Losses Win %
1 Martina Navratilova 305 39 88.66
2 Serena Williams* 59 8 88.06
3 Chris Evert 184 25 88.04
4 Venus Williams* 71 11 87.18
5 Steffi Graf 85 15 85
6 Maria Sharapova* 52 10 83.87
7 Justine Henin* 45 10 81.82
8 Jana Novotna 79 21 79
9 Kim Clijsters* 40 11 78.43
10 Tracy Austin 43 12 78.18

Carpet court singles career winning percentage
Rank Player Wins Losses Win %
1 Martina Navratilova 516 58 89.9
2 Steffi Graf 189 23 89.2
3 Chris Evert 209 39 84.3
4 Serena Williams* 34 7 82.93
5 Martina Hingis 97 23 80.83
6 Kim Clijsters* 50 13 79.37
= Monica Seles 98 26 79.03
8 Lindsay Davenport 93 27 77.5
9 Tracy Austin 85 25 77.27
10 Venus Williams* 50 17 74.63

Most singles matches won
Player Wins
1 Martina Navratilova 1442
2 Chris Evert 1309
3 Steffi Graf 902
4 Virginia Wade 839
5 Arantxa Sánchez Vicario 759
6 Lindsay Davenport 753
7 Conchita Martínez 739
8 Evonne Goolagong Cawley[5] 704
9 Billie Jean King 695
10 Gabriela Sabatini 632

Most match winning streak(all surfaces)
Rank Player Matches
1 Martina Navratilova 74
2 Steffi Graf 66
3 Martina Navratilova 58
4 Margaret Court 57
5 Chris Evert 55
6 Martina Navratilova 54
7 Steffi Graf 46
8 Steffi Graf 45
9 Steffi Graf 44
10 Martina Navratilova 41

Most consecutive singles titles
1. 13 - Martina Navratilova (1984)
2. 12 - Margaret Court (1972-1973)
3. 11 - Steffi Graf (1989-1990)
4. 10 - Chris Evert (1974)
5. 9 - Martina Navratilova (1986)
5. 9 - Margaret Court (1970)
7. 8 - Steffi Graf (1988 )
7. 8 - Martina Navratilova (1983)

Best annual singles winning percentage
1 Martina Navratilova 98.9
2 Steffi Graf 97.7
3 Martina Navratilova 97.5
4 Steffi Graf 97.4
5 Martina Navratilova 96.8
6 Martina Navratilova 96.7
7 Steffi Graf 96
8 Margaret Court 95.3
9 Chris Evert 94.9
10 Margaret Court 94.8


Most consecutive years winning at least one singles title
1. 21 - Martina Navratilova (1974-1994)
2. 18 - Chris Evert (1971-1988 )
3. 14 - Steffi Graf (1986-1999)
4. 11 - Evonne Goolagong Cawley (1970-1980)
4. 11 - Virginia Wade (1968-1978 )
6. 9 - Sandra Cecchini (1984-1992)
6. 9 - Margaret Court (1968-1976)
6. 9 - Lindsay Davenport (1993-2001)
6. 9 - Conchita Martinez (1988-1996)
6. 9 - Arantxa Sanchez Vicario (1988-1996)

Most singles titles won in a year
1. 21 - Margaret Court (1970)
2. 18 - Margaret Court (1969, 1973)
3. 17 - Billie Jean King (1971)
4. 16 - Chris Evert (1974, 1975)
4. 16 - Martina Navratilova (1983)
6. 15 - Evonne Goolagong Cawley (1970)
6. 15 - Martina Navratilova (1982)
8. 14 - Margaret Court (1968 )
8. 14 - Steffi Graf (1989)
8. 14 - Martina Navratilova (1986)
11. 13 - Martina Navratilova (1984)
12. 12 - Chris Evert (1973, 1976)
12. 12 - Evonne Goolagong Cawley (1971)
12. 12 - Martina Navratilova (1985)
15. 11 - Tracy Austin (1980)
15. 11 - Chris Evert (1977)
15. 11 - Steffi Graf (1987, 1988 )
15. 11 - Martina Navratilova (1978, 1979)

sonicare
08-31-2011, 04:06 PM
ok i see.. i guess you have no answer

i think i can expect that top 100 wta players can at least change their game plan from hitting dumb to serena to hitting less fast but with more angles... or is a top 100 wta player too bad to play any angles because serena is so good right?

never mind

ignoring your petty sarcasm, the rest of your post is right.. Serena is too god

sonicare
08-31-2011, 04:08 PM
Nope. I don't care if anyone hate or love Serena, it doesn't change the fact Serena at best can only be tier II great. History are not on your side. Sorry if it hurts.
...............

Those are all accomplishments. I never said Serena is the most accomplished, I said shes the best tennis player ever. i.e, her best is better than anyone else's best

Get over it your petty hater. This isn't the 60s where you can just hold black people back. you closet racist.

guitarplayer
08-31-2011, 04:26 PM
Status: rookie

LMAO

I've been here since 2004 little boy. You, are the rookie.

Sid_Vicious
08-31-2011, 04:32 PM
I've been here since 2004 little boy. You, are the rookie.

ROFL! Absolutely hilarious. That was an epic fail comment.

Tanya
08-31-2011, 04:35 PM
Members should be judged on the quality of their posts, not quantity, and never should they be judged on how long they've been here. So for that, you're both rookies.

Moving on... I wouldn't say Serena plays defensively most of the time. The difference between her and pure ballbashers is that Serena possesses both offensive AND defensive skills whereas many top girls today only possess one or the other. Serena's ability to be effective anywhere on the court is what makes her such a fierce opponent.

guitarplayer
08-31-2011, 04:35 PM
I guess you fail as well little siddy

Sid_Vicious
08-31-2011, 04:36 PM
Those are all accomplishments. I never said Serena is the most accomplished, I said shes the best tennis player ever. i.e, her best is better than anyone else's best

Get over it your petty hater. This isn't the 60s where you can just hold black people back. you closet racist.

LOL! I will keep this comment in mind the next I see you making hateful posts about Nadal. You "closet racist" and "petty hater". :lol:

Sid_Vicious
08-31-2011, 04:37 PM
I guess you fail as well little siddy

I was complimenting you for owning sonicare..:???:

rommil
08-31-2011, 04:45 PM
I've been here since 2004 little boy. You, are the rookie.

Sonicare must feel like Serena's weighing scale right now with that comment!!:)

Sid_Vicious
08-31-2011, 04:46 PM
Members should be judged on the quality of their posts, not quantity, and never should they be judged on how long they've been here. So for that, you're both rookies.

Moving on... I wouldn't say Serena plays defensively most of the time. The difference between her and pure ballbashers is that Serena possesses both offensive AND defensive skills whereas many top girls today only possess one or the other. Serena's ability to be effective anywhere on the court is what makes her such a fierce opponent.

No. GuitarPlayer did not do anything wrong in this case. Sonicare started the whole thing by judging guitarplayer by a meaningless title given to posters based on their post counts.

sonicare
08-31-2011, 04:48 PM
I've been here since 2004 little boy. You, are the rookie.

My status says semi professional.. your argument is full of fail..come at me son

sonicare
08-31-2011, 04:49 PM
ROFL! Absolutely hilarious. That was an epic fail comment.

Sonicare must feel like Serena's weighing scale right now with that comment!!:)

You two bend over a little more. guitarplayer is coming over to your house.

Sid_Vicious
08-31-2011, 04:52 PM
You two bend over a little more. guitarplayer is coming over to your house.

Know your place you moronic peasant. I am in the Hall of Fame and Rommil is a Legend. Therefore, your comment is full of fail. Come at me bro.

rommil
08-31-2011, 04:53 PM
You two bend over a little more. guitarplayer is coming over to your house.

Lol not for a while Im afraid..... Look back and you'll see him still humping you.

whomad15
08-31-2011, 05:03 PM
Petra Cetkovska slices a lot! :)

Who's Petra Cetkovska?

All up and comers have plan A) HIT AS HARD AS POSSIBLE AND SCREEEEEAAAMMM!
and plan B) HIT AS HARD AS POSSIBLE AND SCREEEAAAAMMM!
last theres plan 3) get everything back and hope your opponent misses

guitarplayer
08-31-2011, 05:04 PM
I was complimenting you for owning sonicare..:???:

Sorry, I was cranky. Again, I apologize

guitarplayer
08-31-2011, 05:06 PM
Know your place you moronic peasant. I am in the Hall of Fame and Rommil is a Legend. Therefore, your comment is full of fail. Come at me bro.

Oh sonic...no one cares. Hall of fame for what......because you post a lot...aka...windbag.

TERRASTAR18
08-31-2011, 05:09 PM
I'm not contradicting Serena's serve as being good but you can't contradict the fact that girl's strategies overall sucks when it is asked to do something else than swinging at the ball - you can't deny that this one dimensional point of view from them also plays a big role in Serena's serving efficiency.

As for Bojana she did what she could on AA stadium it was her first time on court of such dimensions she did what she could and it wasn't sufficient - I'm still waiting to see Serena against a much more accomplished player.



Venus a great returner ? Are you sure about that ?
when you are the only one who can return the best serve in women's tennis history(nav, evert and bjk's words, not mine) then you are a pretty damn good returner.

Sid_Vicious
08-31-2011, 05:09 PM
Sorry, I was cranky. Again, I apologize
No problem, GP. Cheers.

TERRASTAR18
08-31-2011, 05:14 PM
Serena no longer plays a ball bashing style, she simply lets these buffoons make an error after 4 shots while defending and holding her service games. If she didn't have the serve it would be a different story, but her serve allows her free points while also letting her play defensively on her opponents serve games to get breaks of serve. The good news is you can see the younger generation is potentially integrating some varitey into their games so they can break the ball bashing mode, but the girls at the top still play mostly the same game. A well rounded and intelligent player like Clijsters is by far the worst match up for Serena. She moves well, strikes the ball well, and doesn't go for broke during the point shot after shot. Right now the only hope of most of the ball bashers is that they are on fire for an entire match.

serena plays only defensively, but in en every match she leads in winners, even in some losses. she's the best returner in the game and attacks every 2nd serve of her opponet. not to mention she hits winners even on the run. have you ever seen any of her matches?

sonicare
08-31-2011, 05:16 PM
Know your place you moronic peasant. I am in the Hall of Fame and Rommil is a Legend. Therefore, your comment is full of fail. Come at me bro.

Lol not for a while Im afraid..... Look back and you'll see him still humping you.

Oh sonic...no one cares. Hall of fame for what......because you post a lot...aka...windbag.

No problem, GP. Cheers.

Your group therapy sessions are pretty cute.

http://www.theandroidscloset.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/come-at-me-bro-meme-anteater.jpg

rommil
08-31-2011, 05:46 PM
Your group therapy sessions are pretty cute.

http://www.theandroidscloset.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/come-at-me-bro-meme-anteater.jpg

You look like being crucified :).......

Roy125
08-31-2011, 06:08 PM
Who's Petra Cetkovska?

All up and comers have plan A) HIT AS HARD AS POSSIBLE AND SCREEEEEAAAMMM!
and plan B) HIT AS HARD AS POSSIBLE AND SCREEEAAAAMMM!
last theres plan 3) get everything back and hope your opponent misses

You've basically described 21st-century tennis as a whole.

LDVTennis
08-31-2011, 07:23 PM
Sonicare must feel like Serena's weighing scale right now with that comment!!:)

How depressing! LOL.

halalula1234
09-01-2011, 04:39 AM
I think the best way to beat serena is just to keep getting your shots back with depth.....Look at hit clijsters and henin do so well against her... and sometimes hingis and capriati...They are all quite great defenders with attacking shots when the time is right.

However if u are trying to out bash her on every point its just not gonna work because she will run it down and u'll make an error or she will just bash it better an you'll be the one defending instead.

pmerk34
09-01-2011, 06:02 AM
You've basically described 21st-century tennis as a whole.

Yeah as if watching women's tennis with wood racquets from the 70's into the early 80's was any better. That stuff was horrible.

pmerk34
09-01-2011, 06:05 AM
I think the best way to beat serena is just to keep getting your shots back with depth.....Look at hit clijsters and henin do so well against her... and sometimes hingis and capriati...They are all quite great defenders with attacking shots when the time is right.

However if u are trying to out bash her on every point its just not gonna work because she will run it down and u'll make an error or she will just bash it better an you'll be the one defending instead.

Sorry but Kim can match her in the power dept which is why she was probabaly going to beat her in that '09 US open semi. Clijsters hits hard consistently. As for Henin Serena overpowered her in their last match they played. And you are correct you need to be a great defender and by definition great means very few can do it.

Manus Domini
09-02-2011, 04:47 AM
Status: rookie

LMAO

Err, no offense (especially since I joined the same month as you), but you have only ~400 posts more than he does, and he's been around since 2004...

LuvTheGame
09-02-2011, 07:13 AM
The match lasted all of 49 minutes. Blink and you missed it.
Serena Put on her Red Dress and then she Put a Hurting on Krajeick....read more on Blog

WILLIAMS SISTERS ROCK
http://williamssistersrock.wordpress.com/

ttbrowne
09-02-2011, 08:30 AM
Members should be judged on the quality of their posts, not quantity, and never should they be judged on how long they've been here. So for that, you're both rookies.

Moving on... I wouldn't say Serena plays defensively most of the time. The difference between her and pure ballbashers is that Serena possesses both offensive AND defensive skills whereas many top girls today only possess one or the other. Serena's ability to be effective anywhere on the court is what makes her such a fierce opponent.

Gonna disagree on both counts. Quality is relative so that can't be unless I'm guessing the posts are truly mindless.

Serena is almost totally offensive. By that I mean a player who is going for the kill almost right away. To me Serena doesn't even want to set her opponent up for the kill. She just goes for it on the first little opening. She looks to be overwhelming. She knows she is going to get a lot of easy service points. The plan is to get the kill shot quickly so her opponent feels like they're smothered. A lot of points quickly puts her opponents in a panic mode. From panic mode they can't even hit routine open court winners anymore.

Tanya
09-02-2011, 09:54 AM
Serena is almost totally offensive. By that I mean a player who is going for the kill almost right away. To me Serena doesn't even want to set her opponent up for the kill. She just goes for it on the first little opening. She looks to be overwhelming. She knows she is going to get a lot of easy service points. The plan is to get the kill shot quickly so her opponent feels like they're smothered. A lot of points quickly puts her opponents in a panic mode. From panic mode they can't even hit routine open court winners anymore.

Perhaps I didn't explain myself enough. I agree with you that Serena is an offensive player, there's no doubt about that. The point I was trying to make is that when Serena is having an "off" day (i.e. her offensive strategy is not going well--she's making a lot of errors, etc) she can still find a way to win by mixing up her game (coming to net, changing up the pace, etc) and using her athleticism to defend so well. So while she is undoubtedly an offensive player she has the ability to play great defense as well which makes her such a difficult opponent to defeat.

LanceStern
09-02-2011, 01:25 PM
Usually when the defense comes, the grunts get a little louder.

It's hard to beat the best player of this generation...

rommil
09-13-2011, 07:09 AM
Seems that every player just tries to hit harder and harder. Seriously, that's your plan? I don't get it. You are not going to over power her so why do you keep beating your head against the wall trying to out hit her?

When I play an opponent that is a much stronger baseline banger, I'm not going to just stand there and try to trade shots. He will win 99.9% of the time. Why play to his strengths?

Try something different for once! Get them out of their comfort zone. Lob, moon ball, drop shot, short balls, come to the net......just do something different!

There........Sam Stosur showed it.

rst
05-15-2012, 08:12 PM
It's the lack of rhythm.....

i know that shorter basketball players adopt skills to better handle taller players.

tennis is different but i expect some heady players have developed plan b or auxillairy games when they know they are being outwhacked.

if it is pace that is beating you, wouldnt adopting a strategy that equalized pace...ie, drop shots, net play (something else?)
be as good a plan as being beat by pace??

cluckcluck
05-16-2012, 08:10 AM
The best way, and probably the only way, to beat Serena is to challenge her to a tennis match at Indian Wells.

TMF
05-16-2012, 08:56 AM
The best way, and probably the only way, to beat Serena is to challenge her to a tennis match at Indian Wells.

The odds of Serena to return IW is much, much less likely than Nadal to return Madrid. The IW director have reach out and begged the WS to comeback but they refused to compromise, thus continue to boycott til this day.

However, I don't expect Triac is going to BEG Nadal to comeback.

gopokes
05-16-2012, 09:45 PM
When folks go crosscourt FH to FH on Serena, that's about the most consistent strategy for success. If Serena is going to get the yips, it's on the FH side. She starts to fall back, get frustrated, and then it affects other parts of her game.
She struggles to change direction on the FH (all of this is relative - Serena is a bad*****) so players should stay patient and work that side. Although, if her serve is on, it won't matter.