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Postpre
09-03-2011, 10:04 AM
I've noticed that Djokovic fans have been critical of the (prior) successes of Federer and Nadal. They are so eager to compare Nole's current form with what many have thought were peak Federer (2006)/Nadal (2008). I think I have an explanation for this.

It's because when Fedal won their maiden slam, their careers propelled forward at a lightning pace (both have won at least a slam a year since their maiden slam). On the other hand, after Djokovic's maiden slam in Australia in 2008, he became largely irrelevant in the slams for the next three years. He lost to the likes of Safin (grass), Kohlschreiber, Melzer, Hass, Berdych, Roddick, and Tsonga. Many were wondering if he'd ever win a slam again. What should have been the start of consistent slam victories (due to his obvious talent), he struggled during some prime tennis years, during the years (in age) when Fedal were winning multiple slams a year.

And like it or not, when the GOAT is under discussion, it always goes back to the slam count. At his age, It will be very difficult for Djokovic to amass double digits in this regard. And I think one needs to be well into double digits to be a GOAT contender.

So, are Djokovic fans eager to compare Nole 2011 vs Federer (2006)/Nadal (2008), and to argue which player was better at their peak, because at the end of the day, this is where they'll have to hang their hat (so to speak), and not each players respective slam count?

Postpre
09-03-2011, 10:04 AM
The smiley faces should read 2008. Not sure why they are smiley faces.

DjokovicForTheWin
09-03-2011, 10:05 AM
Djoker's slam in 2008 was a fluke. I'm the first to admit that. It only happened because Roger was sick.

DjokovicForTheWin
09-03-2011, 10:07 AM
I doubt Djoker can catch Federer since he started so late, but I think he can match Nadal or pass him, especially given not only what Djoker is doing this year, but more importantly HOW he is doing it, namely by destroying the second best player in the world at his best.

Clarky21
09-03-2011, 10:08 AM
**** will get to double digit slams. It's inevitable with the lack of competition he will have over the next few years.

Postpre
09-03-2011, 10:09 AM
Not sure if I agree that Australia 2008 was a fluke. One could tell that he had great talent, but it took another 3 years before his second slam.

DjokovicForTheWin
09-03-2011, 10:13 AM
Not sure if I agree that Australia 2008 was a fluke. One could tell that he had great talent, but it took another 3 years before his second slam.

THat's the point, the fact that is took another 3 years to win another slam proves 2008 was a fluke. That's the definition.

Postpre
09-03-2011, 10:15 AM
THat's the point, the fact that is took another 3 years to win another slam proves 2008 was a fluke. That's the definition.

I disagree, considering his form at the time. But, he wasn't able to get back to the form for whatever reason. Could have been largely mental.

TopFH
09-03-2011, 10:16 AM
Why do you call him Cvak?

DjokovicForTheWin
09-03-2011, 10:19 AM
I disagree, considering his form at the time. But, he wasn't able to get back to the form for whatever reason. Could have been largely mental.

Yeah the fact that you can't come up with a reason for not getting back to form is the proof it was a fluke. That version of Djokovic was not ready to win a slam, it just happened because of extenuating circumstances. i.e. luck. Mental problems don't take 3 years to overcome, he was just not good enough back then. AO2008 was a fluke.

Clarky21
09-03-2011, 10:22 AM
Why do you call him Cvak?

I call him **** because that's the name of that hypobaric machine he's been sleeping in like he's Michael Jackson.

Novak123
09-03-2011, 11:20 AM
I'm not a Novak fan, but I'll be the first to admit that comparing current Novak to prime Fed is an absolute joke.

Why?

Because Novak would completely demolish 'prime' Fed; it'd be no contest if they're both playing their best at the same time, and I would expect the match to be over in...1 hour and 30 mins (best of five).

billnepill
09-03-2011, 11:36 AM
I'm not a Novak fan, but I'll be the first to admit that comparing current Novak to prime Fed is an absolute joke.

Why?

Because Novak would completely demolish 'prime' Fed; it'd be no contest if they're both playing their best at the same time, and I would expect the match to be over in...1 hour and 30 mins (best of five).

lol, are u 9

prime Djokovic against way past prime Federer is 1:1 in slams this year

what makes you think djokovic would 'demolish' prime Federer?

namelessone
09-03-2011, 11:44 AM
what makes you think djokovic would 'demolish' prime Federer?

Fandom.

10char.

Novak123
09-03-2011, 11:57 AM
lol, are u 9

prime Djokovic against way past prime Federer is 1:1 in slams this year

what makes you think djokovic would 'demolish' prime Federer?

Please stop trolling... A regular King faced an on-fire Fed and he almost won. That by itself portrays the massive difference in skill. You *******s keep bringing up Novak's one loss to Fed and yet you foolishly ignore that Novak was playing terribly compared to his usual standards. AND HE STILL ALMOST BE FED!

FEDERERNADAL13
09-03-2011, 12:03 PM
Please stop trolling... A regular King faced an on-fire Fed and he almost won. That by itself portrays the massive difference in skill. You *******s keep bringing up Novak's one loss to Fed and yet you foolishly ignore that Novak was playing terribly compared to his usual standards. AND HE STILL ALMOST BE FED!

Man, Novak played really well in that match, but Fed played epically (if that's a word ;) ) But common, Prime Fed would destroy Prime Djoker. Look what he was able to do!

billnepill
09-03-2011, 12:06 PM
Please stop trolling... A regular King faced an on-fire Fed and he almost won. That by itself portrays the massive difference in skill. You *******s keep bringing up Novak's one loss to Fed and yet you foolishly ignore that Novak was playing terribly compared to his usual standards. AND HE STILL ALMOST BE FED!

grandpa Fed beat unbeatable prime djokovic :|

it sucks that it doesn't go along with your theory, no :(

can't believe you fool yourself that prime djokovic would 'demolish' prime Federer

Novak123
09-03-2011, 12:08 PM
Man, Novak played really well in that match, but Fed played epically (if that's a word ;) ) But common, Prime Fed would destroy Prime Djoker. Look what he was able to do!

Did you just completely ignore my entire post...

Novak wasn't playing his best at all, and the Fed that played the King in the FO was essentially prime Fed. And you think that a prime King would lose to a player of that caliber? I'm a hardcore Fed-fan, but even I wouldn't deny that Novak's absolutely dominant when he's playing his best. Stop trolling...

DjokovicForTheWin
09-03-2011, 12:09 PM
I do admit, Djoker's loss to old Fed at the FO did seriously put into question how he would do against prime Fed. Had it not been for that loss, Djoker2011 would fair well I would say.

jackson vile
09-03-2011, 12:20 PM
Djoker's slam in 2008 was a fluke. I'm the first to admit that. It only happened because Roger was sick.

Right because the only way Roger can lose is if it is a fluke, sick, injury, bad matchup, etc. Wow, sounds a lot like Nadal LOL

Try to not be so stupid, thanks

FEDERERNADAL13
09-03-2011, 12:33 PM
Did you just completely ignore my entire post...

Novak wasn't playing his best at all, and the Fed that played the King in the FO was essentially prime Fed. And you think that a prime King would lose to a player of that caliber? I'm a hardcore Fed-fan, but even I wouldn't deny that Novak's absolutely dominant when he's playing his best. Stop trolling...

Hardcore Fed fan with a name of Novak123, lol. Watch the highlights and you will see Prime "King", and Fed playing his best match of the season (he's had waaaay better seasons). Then, you'll see Fed win a titanic encounter of good players. I think that a "prime king" would be dominated by a prime "player of that calibre".

Watch this Late prime to Past Prime Fed, based on who you talk to ;) :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBZSJbdi4lA

Dilettante
09-03-2011, 01:00 PM
I'm not a Novak fan

Did I just read that.

FedExpress 333
09-03-2011, 01:07 PM
Djoker's slam in 2008 was a fluke. I'm the first to admit that. It only happened because Roger was sick.

Nice to see a fan of a player admit the strenths and weaknesses of him. It is hard to find people like you here, man.

Novak123
09-03-2011, 02:01 PM
Hardcore Fed fan with a name of Novak123, lol. Watch the highlights and you will see Prime "King", and Fed playing his best match of the season (he's had waaaay better seasons). Then, you'll see Fed win a titanic encounter of good players. I think that a "prime king" would be dominated by a prime "player of that calibre".

Watch this Late prime to Past Prime Fed, based on who you talk to ;) :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBZSJbdi4lA

Watching highlights doesn't prove anything; I'm surprised that you actually used that as evidence to support 'prime' Fedfail beating the King. Are you being serious right now?

sansaephanh
09-03-2011, 02:26 PM
You guys all have too many personals going on in this thread lol. I've been a fan of Djoko since... 2005 or 2006 don't remember. He struggled mentally on the court and the quality of his shots were no where near the prime of his rivals Federer/Nadal. I agree with OP that what counts for GOAT is what's accomplished in the end. We can't know for sure if he can or cannot get double digit slams till we're all a handful years older, but he definitely is off to a great start this year.

Let's just hope for great tennis and stop bickering like children.

FEDERERNADAL13
09-03-2011, 02:33 PM
Watching highlights doesn't prove anything; I'm surprised that you actually used that as evidence to support 'prime' Fedfail beating the King. Are you being serious right now?

Why are you hatin' on the Golden Eagle of Victory?? Look what Fed was able to do in his prime, many things that may never be equaled :) If Djoko wins 3 slams a year for many years, then we'll think about Prime Fed Vs. Prime Djoko, but as of now, no contest!

FEDERERNADAL13
09-03-2011, 02:33 PM
Why are you hatin' on the Golden Eagle of Victory?? Look what Fed was able to do in his prime, many things that may never be equaled :) If Djoko wins 3 slams a year for many years, then we'll think about Prime Fed Vs. Prime Djoko, but as of now, no contest!

Ohh, and BTW, I wish I failed as much as Fed, failed all the way to 16 slams ;)

DjokovicForTheWin
09-03-2011, 02:36 PM
Nice to see a fan of a player admit the strenths and weaknesses of him. It is hard to find people like you here, man.

Well it's just a matter of looking at the data objectively and not letting one's feelings cloud the issue. If he was really primed to win a slam in 2008, why then would he fail so emphatically at the next 11 (count them 11!) slams without winning even one. The data therefore indicate an aberrant result in 2008, further proven by how with that great form in 2008 it was still essentially only Federer reaching every remaining final. But in 2011? It's all Djoker and he is proving it quite emphatically, destroying his #1 rival also playing his best tennis. The data do not lie. Nothing is more satisfying than that for Djoker fans.

Squall Leonheart
09-03-2011, 08:43 PM
Novak123
I'm not a Novak fan.

Really? (10 chars)

Ray Mercer
09-03-2011, 08:52 PM
Right because the only way Roger can lose is if it is a fluke, sick, injury, bad matchup, etc. Wow, sounds a lot like Nadal LOL

Try to not be so stupid, thanks

Hey Jackson you ready for the beating Nadal's about to receive? I can't wait.

Sentinel
09-03-2011, 09:07 PM
Djoker's slam in 2008 was a fluke. I'm the first to admit that. It only happened because Roger was sick.
Man, you really are trying to rile up the *******s.


Keep it up !!

FedExpress 333
09-03-2011, 09:28 PM
Well it's just a matter of looking at the data objectively and not letting one's feelings cloud the issue. If he was really primed to win a slam in 2008, why then would he fail so emphatically at the next 11 (count them 11!) slams without winning even one. The data therefore indicate an aberrant result in 2008, further proven by how with that great form in 2008 it was still essentially only Federer reaching every remaining final. But in 2011? It's all Djoker and he is proving it quite emphatically, destroying his #1 rival also playing his best tennis. The data do not lie. Nothing is more satisfying than that for Djoker fans.

Fully Agree. In 2011, he has been the best of the best!

TopFH
09-03-2011, 09:44 PM
I'm not a Novak fan, but I'll be the first to admit that comparing current Novak to prime Fed is an absolute joke.

Why?

Because Novak would completely demolish 'prime' Fed; it'd be no contest if they're both playing their best at the same time, and I would expect the match to be over in...1 hour and 30 mins (best of five).

Who are you a fan of? Not even diehard Djokovic fans think that Prime Djokovic would beat Prime Federer. Maybe you're a masochist Nadal fan that uses the Novak to disguise his frustration.

mcr619619
09-03-2011, 10:52 PM
I'm not a Novak fan, but I'll be the first to admit that comparing current Novak to prime Fed is an absolute joke.

Why?

Because Novak would completely demolish 'prime' Fed; it'd be no contest if they're both playing their best at the same time, and I would expect the match to be over in...1 hour and 30 mins (best of five).

I knew it, it's obvious in your name...LOL

MaiDee
09-04-2011, 01:23 AM
There is difference between the best carrier achievement and GOAT.
If Nadal wins next two Grand slams, without loosing the match in 2012 and 2013, and than stop playing because of injury, he will be the GOAT, even if he doesn't have any slam previously.
It means that you can change his name with any other.
If Ernest Gulbis win next 8 slams without loosing the match in two years, in competition with Federer, Nadal. Djokovic and Murray, and than stop playing, he will be the GOAT, no question about that, for me.

Telepatic
09-04-2011, 05:59 AM
Nice to see a fan of a player admit the strenths and weaknesses of him. It is hard to find people like you here, man.

I admit weaknesses of Nole but AO 2008 was not a fluke, anyone who says that is definitely not true fan of his.

Imo, those were his best serving days and he pretty much haven't lost a set except one in the finals against red hot Tsonga.

TopFH
09-04-2011, 06:04 AM
Well, fluke or not, Djokovic's 2008 AO win was great.

ttbrowne
09-04-2011, 07:22 AM
I do admit, Djoker's loss to old Fed at the FO did seriously put into question how he would do against prime Fed. Had it not been for that loss, Djoker2011 would fair well I would say.

Ouch! Old Fed beating New Djoker...shaking of the finger...will always be burnt into the memories of Novak fans.

It's the 1 real blemish on Novaks record so far this year.

maxpotapov
09-04-2011, 07:30 AM
Ouch! Old Fed beating New Djoker...shaking of the finger...will always be burnt into the memories of Novak fans.
I'm not a No.1 fan, but shaking of the finger at New Djoker is burnt into my memory too!

zagor
09-04-2011, 07:54 AM
Djoker's slam in 2008 was a fluke. I'm the first to admit that.

I disagree, I don't consider it a fluke because it didn't came out of nowhere. In 2007 Novak won Miami(youngest winner ever)then reached SF in both FO and Wimbledon, won Montreal beating top 3 players in the world at the time(Fed, Nadal and A-Rod) and then reached USO final next in the same year.

In short many people expected him to breakthrough and win a slam in 2008 after his stellar 2007 and he did, by winning 2008 AO he also became the youngest player ever to reach all 4 slam SFs. Now I'd say he wasn't ready mentally at the time for all the pressure and expectations that came with winning a slam, especially winning a slam in Fedal era. Right away he was expected to break the duopoly and shake things up in tennis, he couldn't cope with such heavy expectations yet IMO.

It only happened because Roger was sick.

C'mon now, you sound like a Nadal fan there. Novak didn't beat just Fed, he played some great tennis the whole tourney and Fed was playing well enough to reach SF so he was in good enough shape to step on the court and face Novak.

Now I personally believe Fed had mono in 2008 but fact is every player out there plays through some nagging injury or illness or similar almost all the time, if we started to bring up every player's ailments we could discredit/questions many titles/wins, it's a pointless exercise, best to accept such things as part of the game.

CocaCola
09-04-2011, 08:41 AM
Sure, Djokovic is far, far from Rogers GS count. I never put word GOAT to his name but his 2011 season is the best ever (so far) and is surely comparable to Federer 2006 level.

DjokovicForTheWin
09-04-2011, 02:07 PM
I disagree, I don't consider it a fluke because it didn't came out of nowhere. In 2007 Novak won Miami(youngest winner ever)then reached SF in both FO and Wimbledon, won Montreal beating top 3 players in the world at the time(Fed, Nadal and A-Rod) and then reached USO final next in the same year.

In short many people expected him to breakthrough and win a slam in 2008 after his stellar 2007 and he did, by winning 2008 AO he also became the youngest player ever to reach all 4 slam SFs. Now I'd say he wasn't ready mentally at the time for all the pressure and expectations that came with winning a slam, especially winning a slam in Fedal era. Right away he was expected to break the duopoly and shake things up in tennis, he couldn't cope with such heavy expectations yet IMO.

I could certainly understand the pressure of following the AO08 up with more and failing because of the pressure. But for 3 more years? 11 more slams? No, that tells me that had Fed been healthy Djoker would not have gotten past him. I mean he played him again at the USO that year and was completely dismissed by now healthy Fed, who himself still wasn't playing that great, we all remember the Andreeav match after all. So I agree with you the pressure got to him, but that it took 3 more years to recover after that, points towards fluke for me.



C'mon now, you sound like a Nadal fan there. Novak didn't beat just Fed, he played some great tennis the whole tourney and Fed was playing well enough to reach SF so he was in good enough shape to step on the court and face Novak.

Now I personally believe Fed had mono in 2008 but fact is every player out there plays through some nagging injury or illness or similar almost all the time, if we started to bring up every player's ailments we could discredit/questions many titles/wins, it's a pointless exercise, best to accept such things as part of the game.

Yes I know it sounds like an excuse that Fed was sick. And yes all players have niggling injuries, but that's the point really, all players do have them, except Fed (for the most part). The mono completely affected his game as shown by the previous match against Tipsy which he almost lost (he should have lost it, he got lucky). Fed in a slam almost losing to Tipsy? And this is 2008, he's coming of an amazing 2007. That tells me the mono affected Fed dramatically and no way a healthy Fed drops so easily to Djoker. Granted Djoker played well, but you don't just play well one match and then drop off for 3 years. Points once again to fluke.

Novak123
09-04-2011, 02:22 PM
Why are you hatin' on the Golden Eagle of Victory?? Look what Fed was able to do in his prime, many things that may never be equaled :) If Djoko wins 3 slams a year for many years, then we'll think about Prime Fed Vs. Prime Djoko, but as of now, no contest!

Winning three slams for multiple years has nothing to do with their best level; that's all about their consistency, and right now, I'll admit that Fedfail's got the edge (that's only because he's been playing longer). Novak's absolute best completely trumps Fedfail's. Anyone saying otherwise is trolling.

Irony Zealot
09-04-2011, 02:40 PM
Winning three slams for multiple years has nothing to do with their best level; that's all about their consistency, and right now, I'll admit that Fedfail's got the edge (that's only because he's been playing longer). Novak's absolute best completely trumps Fedfail's. Anyone saying otherwise is trolling.

Lol, troll calling everyone else trolls. You say you're not a Djokovic fan, but now you sound just like one. Also, to call Federer "Fedfail" is to call every other tennis player, even your precious Novak, a fail.

I don't think we can compare Djokovic's and Federer's prime yet. We already know Federer's prime has past, but Djokovic's prime pretty much just started. Maybe we'll see an even better Novak down the road somewhere. After that, then we can start comparing.

Dilettante
09-04-2011, 02:41 PM
Winning three slams for multiple years has nothing to do with their best level; that's all about their consistency, and right now, I'll admit that Fedfail's got the edge (that's only because he's been playing longer). Novak's absolute best completely trumps Fedfail's. Anyone saying otherwise is trolling.

You are trolling.