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jaap deboeck
07-08-2005, 09:22 AM
So 15 year-old Michelle Wie in the 1st round shot a 1 under and was ahead of half the men. Imagine if Karatancheva or even Sharapova tried to qualify for the ATP event at Indianapolis! The PGA hierarchy must be hoping Wie burns out soon, because if she is a PGA fixture in a few years it diminishes the mystique of their sport. Racing cars or riding horses is one thing, this is another kettle of fish. Why the PGA is more popular now than the ATP is astonishing. Maybe the masses relate to some of the out of shape 40 year-olds? In tennis even a Taylor Dent must lose some weight to hang in there while in golf the Michelin tire guy could compete. I hope Wie wins a major one day!

Cavaleer
07-08-2005, 09:44 AM
It would be funny and rather embarassing for golf as a sport. But if women can can hit as long and as accurately as the men there's no reason they shouldn't compete for the bigger bucks on the PGA.

Honestly, when you look at golf from the aspects of one stroke determining so much, it shouldn't surprise us that women can hit the long ball as well as men, especially with today's golding equipment. Similarly, I don't see why women compete in a separate league in billiards or bowling. There's no decisive strength advantage that men have in those sports. Let the women compete head-to-head with the men.

Overall physical strength and power aren't as significant in golf as they are in other sports, such as tennis. One need only look at two or three dominant women players in tennis- Navratilova, Steffi Graf and Serena Williams- to see the significance of power, speed and strength. And obviously the best example of this significance are the two biggest victims of the power game- Hingis and Kournikova- both very talented but both were simply outgunned by bigger, stronger women.

I don't think the ATP or the WTA have anything to worry about. Besides, women tennis players often make more money than the men because of their higher endorement value. Although I do think they should play best of five at the majors and receive identical prize money to the men. This best of three mess is almost a disgrace to the athletes that they are.

Cavaleer

littlelleyton
07-08-2005, 09:54 AM
So 15 year-old Michelle Wie in the 1st round shot a 1 under and was ahead of half the men. Imagine if Karatancheva or even Sharapova tried to qualify for the ATP event at Indianapolis! The PGA hierarchy must be hoping Wie burns out soon, because if she is a PGA fixture in a few years it diminishes the mystique of their sport.Racing cars or riding horses is one thing, this is another kettle of fish. Why the PGA is more popular now than the ATP is astonishing. Maybe the masses relate to some of the out of shape 40 year-olds? In tennis even a Taylor Dent must lose some weight to hang in there while in golf the Michelin tire guy could compete. I hope Wie wins a major one day!


i find this a strange opinion to have and the comparison of the ATP/PGA isnt really a fair one if your honest with yourself, but sinc eyou have taken such a sexist view you probably wont be.
you will see that it was obviously quite possible for a 15 year old of any sex to compete in a game of golf with someone of any age due to the fact the game relies less on physical conditioning as it does technique, timing and ability.
i also think you are so far from the truth about what the PGA is thinking when it comes to Wie, they are probably thinking how they can market her to be a role model to younger girls that otherwise would not be interested in the sport. golf liek any other sport is a business and they will be looking to cash in on her for the PGA benifit thats for sure and anything that brings in cash and new supporters of golf they will like and not want to see the back of.
also why is racing cars and riding horse one thing, both these things are considerably more physical than golf and requiry an awful lot of physical conditioning.
like tiger woods, lleyton hewitt, ian thorpe, lebron james or any young sports star that breaks on the scene at a young age credit must go to their natural ability and years of deadication and commitment that they are in the positions they are in rather than cirticise the players they play against.
maybe if you find yourself being the type of person that gets embarssed by getting beat form a female then there is some sort of self esteem issues there. if the chance came for you to play a match with any of the women on the WTA tour would you play them? as im pretty sure you would lose to them, but then again you might feel like this would be an embarssement. it seems pretty clear that you dont hold women in too high asteem and feel threatened by the though of them being able to compete with you. ;)

AAAA
07-08-2005, 10:02 AM
Golf is more popular than tennis for obvious reasons.

Max G.
07-08-2005, 08:30 PM
I'm not at all surprised - golf isn't a game of strength or speed or endurance, so there's no reason that women can't compete with men.

Andy Hewitt
07-08-2005, 11:24 PM
As I said, golf is hardly a sport.

No, those women would not be remotely successful in the ATP. Theyd make so much more money in the WTA anyway being ranked WAY higher....

friedalo1
07-09-2005, 08:52 AM
I wont watch a five set women tennis match. Both ladie will fall to the ground from exhaustion. Women dont have the stamina of men. Watching a three set men tennis match is fun. Golf is a sport with no endurance values. It like comparing a marathon runner to a Archer in the olympics. Serena and Shavapova would get demolished by the men qualifiers for the us open, and etc.

littlelleyton
07-09-2005, 09:22 AM
I wont watch a five set women tennis match. Both ladie will fall to the ground from exhaustion. Women dont have the stamina of men. Watching a three set men tennis match is fun. Golf is a sport with no endurance values. It like comparing a marathon runner to a Archer in the olympics. Serena and Shavapova would get demolished by the men qualifiers for the us open, and etc.

and that is the whole point it was a poor comparison from someone that had not thought about the issue fully.

Type40
07-09-2005, 09:46 AM
If it's true that if women can compete with the men on the men's tour, and that's OK, why then can't the men compete with the women on their tour? YOu can't say that one is fair and the other is not.

tennissavy
07-09-2005, 09:48 AM
i find this a strange opinion to have and the comparison of the ATP/PGA isnt really a fair one if your honest with yourself, but sinc eyou have taken such a sexist view you probably wont be.
you will see that it was obviously quite possible for a 15 year old of any sex to compete in a game of golf with someone of any age due to the fact the game relies less on physical conditioning as it does technique, timing and ability.
i also think you are so far from the truth about what the PGA is thinking when it comes to Wie, they are probably thinking how they can market her to be a role model to younger girls that otherwise would not be interested in the sport. golf liek any other sport is a business and they will be looking to cash in on her for the PGA benifit thats for sure and anything that brings in cash and new supporters of golf they will like and not want to see the back of.
also why is racing cars and riding horse one thing, both these things are considerably more physical than golf and requiry an awful lot of physical conditioning.
like tiger woods, lleyton hewitt, ian thorpe, lebron james or any young sports star that breaks on the scene at a young age credit must go to their natural ability and years of deadication and commitment that they are in the positions they are in rather than cirticise the players they play against.
maybe if you find yourself being the type of person that gets embarssed by getting beat form a female then there is some sort of self esteem issues there. if the chance came for you to play a match with any of the women on the WTA tour would you play them? as im pretty sure you would lose to them, but then again you might feel like this would be an embarssement. it seems pretty clear that you dont hold women in too high asteem and feel threatened by the though of them being able to compete with you. ;)
I agree with you. If you look on this messageboard, several months ago, there were debates about women competing with men in tennis. Most guys on this board are extremely insecure about the possibility of women beating men. Most of them are dillusional and think a male 5.o player would beat the top wta players. It is absolutely absurd. They are very stupid. Tennis is about technique much more than natural physical power. Some women can and do beat men in tennis. I am a pretty solid player but seeing many wta matches in person I realize that even Nicole Pratt who is much smaller than myself and who does not rely on huge serves and groundstrokes would probably beat me 6-0 6-0. If she's not feeling well and I am playing perfectly, I might be able to get a couple of games off of her. I am secure enough and realistic enough to state that.

Type40
07-09-2005, 09:51 AM
I read an interview with chris evert who said that her brother, who wasn't even a pro I don't think, could always beat her, that about says it all.

tennissavy
07-09-2005, 09:55 AM
I wont watch a five set women tennis match. Both ladie will fall to the ground from exhaustion. Women dont have the stamina of men. Watching a three set men tennis match is fun. Golf is a sport with no endurance values. It like comparing a marathon runner to a Archer in the olympics. Serena and Shavapova would get demolished by the men qualifiers for the us open, and etc.The WTA championships used to have a best of 5 format. I have seen 5 setters and the women did not collapse. I saw some high quality matches of 5 sets among the wta. It's too bad they recently switched to best of 3 sets in that event. Women don't have the stamina of men is what you say. That is ignorant. I have learned to consider everyone on an individual basis. I have seen some women outlast their male opponents. I have played against a woman who served harder than any guy I ever played and she was only about 5'6", it's true! Case by case basis. I'm not saying every woman will be competitive with every man but for sure every male tennis player could be matched with a woman who could beat him.

tennissavy
07-09-2005, 10:00 AM
I read an interview with chris evert who said that her brother, who wasn't even a pro I don't think, could always beat her, that about says it all.
No it doesn't. I'm sure her brother would be beaten by some other woman. I'm sure Chris Evert could beat some men maybe not her brother but some other men, yes.
It's all very individual. Just because I normally beat player B and player C normally beats me doesn't mean that player C is going to beat player B.

Type40
07-09-2005, 10:04 AM
I'd like to really understand what the message is here. Why are women wanting to compete with men? THe issue seems to be about something more than sport. The idea seems to be to try at every opportunity to humiliate men who lose to women. Every time a woman comes a long who can compete with men like michelle wie it just highlights all the others who can't.

So let's say MIchelle Wie wins today, what does that mean?
IS she never going to play on the women's tour again?

What does that tell us about the women's tour?
Why even have a women's tour?

Why not just have one tour and let's see who else, aside from Ms Wie can compete with the men.

Type40
07-09-2005, 10:05 AM
that's bull tennissavy, if her brother can beat a 3 time wimbledon champion, then he can beat any woman, any place any time. Because men are simply better at tennis than women. That's the fact, deal with it.

littlelleyton
07-09-2005, 10:09 AM
I read an interview with chris evert who said that her brother, who wasn't even a pro I don't think, could always beat her, that about says it all.

that says it all. oh well then lets put chris evert down for all she has ever achieved as well as any one she ever beat as her brother beat her....lets not give any credit to her brother who may well have been an amazing tennis player who could have gone pro but choose to do something else with his life. i does anyone know or has seen her brother playing tennis? is it possible that she is talking about a certain period in her life, ie there childhood? i dont know these facts, Type40 you certainly dont know squat about this since your whole comment is based around the point that you"dont think" her brother was a pro. you couldnt even find the 5 minutes it would take to google the subject and have some sort of intelligent arguement for your view.
there are alot of closed minded views and assumtions being shared here with not much backing for what those views or proof of what is being assumed.
tennissavy your spot on mate and i hear what your saying, anyone that is realistic with the world would realise these simple points you have made and would be secure enough with themselves to understand that it doesnt make you any less of a man for this to happen, but then again they probably spend so much time on forums bad mouthing women they dont actually get to speak or interact with any.
YOUR ALWAYS SCARED OF WHAT YOU DONT KNOW eah boys????

littlelleyton
07-09-2005, 10:13 AM
that's bull tennissavy, if her brother can beat a 3 time wimbledon champion, then he can beat any woman, any place any time. Because men are simply better at tennis than women. That's the fact, deal with it.

can i ask what happened with billy jean king and bobby riggs or has the Testosterone levels over the years blocked this fact out. and billy jean king wasnt even the best player in the world she was ranked 2 at the time!!!!

tennissavy
07-09-2005, 10:15 AM
that's bull tennissavy, if her brother can beat a 3 time wimbledon champion, then he can beat any woman, any place any time. Because men are simply better at tennis than women. That's the fact, deal with it.
That is far from fact. I am a secure man who has witnessed many women beating men. Usually the players involved were around the same age and in good condition. Women can beat men and I have seen it. BTW did you know Davenport had to get rid of one of her male coaches because he couldn't hit hard enough for her? Although tennis is about far more than just power I found that one entertaining.
I am not going to try to persuade you. I won't. If you would play against some of the women I have played or watch them beat the caliber of male player they defeat, you would be convinced that some women are better players.

littlelleyton
07-09-2005, 10:18 AM
That is far from fact. I am a secure man who has witnessed many women beating men. Usually the players involved were around the same age and in good condition. Women can beat men and I have seen it. BTW did you know Davenport had to get rid of one of her male coaches because he couldn't hit hard enough for her? Although tennis is about far more than just power I found that one entertaining.
I am not going to try to persuade you. I won't. If you would play against some of the women I have played or watch them beat the caliber of male player they defeat, you would be convinced that some women are better players.

they will never be convinced because they will never mentally be strong enough or secure enough to admit that there are women out there that could beat them. they would never put themselves in that position because the reality of losing, when it happened would rock there small little world too much.

Type40
07-09-2005, 10:20 AM
For the dud from scotland, billy jean king, the world's number 2 woman beating a mid 50s man, proves nothing, and bobby riggs had beaten the world's number 1 the previous week.

So one can conclude that bobby riggs, a well known tennis hustler, made some money
that day down at his local bookie.

TEnnis savy, you can take a pro female tennis player, and she will beat some recreational player guy, but seriously, if you really believe that women are equally competitive with their male counterparts in their peer groups, then why is there even a separate tour for the women.

Surely they should be competing against the men all the time?

Do you agree or disagree?

Type40
07-09-2005, 10:23 AM
YOu really are a jack ***** who knows diddly squat about tennis. I'm sure any women could beat you, as you are clearly not much.

tennissavy
07-09-2005, 10:29 AM
For the dud from scotland, billy jean king, the world's number 2 woman beating a mid 50s man, proves nothing, and bobby riggs had beaten the world's number 1 the previous week.

So one can conclude that bobby riggs, a well known tennis hustler, made some money
that day down at his local bookie.

TEnnis savy, you can take a pro female tennis player, and she will beat some recreational player guy, but seriously, if you really believe that women are equally competitive with their male counterparts in their peer groups, then why is there even a separate tour for the women.

Surely they should be competing against the men all the time?

Do you agree or disagree?
Type 40, you are missing my point. Every player and matchup is to be taken individually. I am not saying that the top 10 wta players are all going to be evenly matched with the top 10 atp players. I am saying that every man can be defeated in tennis by a woman. There is a superior player of the opposite sex for everyone. You might have to look a long and hard but there is a woman out there who can beat Federer too.

Type40
07-09-2005, 10:31 AM
OK so if that's true, you tell me now who is the woman who can beat roger federer.
In fact you tell me any woman player who can beat any top 50 men.
If the top 10 women can't do it, then who can?
Your argument makes no sense at all.

This has more to do with women 'beating' men, than it does about tennis.
Someone maybe needss to see their threrapist.

tennissavy
07-09-2005, 10:34 AM
YOu really are a jack ***** who knows diddly squat about tennis. I'm sure any women could beat you, as you are clearly not much.
I will no longer respond to you after this post. There is no reason to be nasty about it. The fact is I am not a professional player but I beat most guys I play. I have a really good record and some women can beat me. I have no problem accepting that.
I don't deserve abuse from an insecure immature person like yourself. I prefer to communicate with those who are reasonable and polite.

Grinder
07-09-2005, 10:34 AM
Much is made about Riggs losing to King, but no one ever talks about a worn down Kaarsten Braasch defeating Venus 6-2 and Serena 6-1. Braasch was over 200 in the world at the time and was playing with restraint, hitting his serves at 60% pace. People also tend to forget about a retired Jimmy Connors beating an in form Navratilova easily. Connors could only use the singles court and one serve while Navratilova had the doubles allies and two serves.

littlelleyton
07-09-2005, 10:35 AM
For the dud from scotland, billy jean king, the world's number 2 woman beating a mid 50s man, proves nothing, and bobby riggs had beaten the world's number 1 the previous week.

So one can conclude that bobby riggs, a well known tennis hustler, made some money
that day down at his local bookie.

TEnnis savy, you can take a pro female tennis player, and she will beat some recreational player guy, but seriously, if you really believe that women are equally competitive with their male counterparts in their peer groups, then why is there even a separate tour for the women.

Surely they should be competing against the men all the time?

Do you agree or disagree?


haha oh you hurt my feelings there. if a dud is what you wish to call me then that is fine if you feel like you cant have a debate without lowering yourself to name calling then that is fine i wouldnt expect anything less from someone who has posted the posts you have.
if my opinion and the fact i can back it up offends you then maybe you should choose which debates you choose to enter in to.
the billy jean king example was purely in reply to your comment and i quote "Because men are simply better at tennis than women. That's the fact, deal with it." so you have contridicted yourself or do you disagree???
BTW your quick to jump on to where im from, where exactly are you from?? i do not choose to make judgement on you as a person just because you are from a certain place or have certain views, but find it interesting to debate in an educated way topics like these. your probably generally a good person so why resort to name calling at the first sign of someone having a different view.

littlelleyton
07-09-2005, 10:42 AM
Much is made about Riggs losing to King, but no one ever talks about a worn down Kaarsten Braasch defeating Venus 6-2 and Serena 6-1. Braasch was over 200 in the world at the time and was playing with restraint, hitting his serves at 60% pace. People also tend to forget about a retired Jimmy Connors beating an in form Navratilova easily. Connors could only use the singles court and one serve while Navratilova had the doubles allies and two serves.
thats right much has been made about it but like tennissavvy says its an individual match up. this thread was never an arguement that the top players from the WTA & ATP could compete but that of the generlisation that women competing against men in gold was embarssing. people have jumped in to compare it to tennis when there is no real comparison there.

littlelleyton
07-09-2005, 10:44 AM
YOu really are a jack ***** who knows diddly squat about tennis. I'm sure any women could beat you, as you are clearly not much.


why is it so big of an issue that there may, possibly, jsut may be a women out there that would be able to beat you? or do you think otherwise? this is not a put down i can assure you im just trying to understand why you think that it is so far fectched that there are women who are better and can beat men.

Type40
07-09-2005, 10:44 AM
I have too much respect for this board than to waste any more time with this moron from scotland

littlelleyton
07-09-2005, 10:53 AM
I have too much respect for this board than to waste any more time with this moron from scotland

i see that when faced with an arguement/debate with someone that expresses them self in a way that is not abusive then you resort to name calling. i gave you the benefit of the doubt and tried to speak to you like an adult but as you have quite clearly proved you are far from that and choose to respond with idiotic post. i asked you pretty straight forward questions and made reference to comments you made and you choose to act like a spoiled brat. if you find it hard to express yourself in an educated way then i apologise as you clearly feel belittled by my comments and dont have to stomach to debate a subject on a forum, god forbid you actually come across someone in real life that challenges anything you say otherwise you wont have a pc to hide behind when you look like a fool.
can i also ask what relevance that im from scotland is that you keep mentioning that? i hve nothing to hide and have my info available in my profile, unlike you who chooses to hide behind and user name.

Type40
07-09-2005, 10:56 AM
You really are a moron

tennissavy
07-09-2005, 10:56 AM
Hi Littlelleyton! This winter I was practicing indoors and I chose to practice return of serve against a woman because she is one of the biggest servers in the club. She is only about 5'6", average height, and has a really big serve which she can vary with slice, etc. Practicing with her was the best thing I could have done for my return game. There is a male highschool senior who is about 6'3" who can serve bombs but the small woman has a better, bigger serve. I think she has the best serve of anyone in the club. Case by case basis as I have been saying. I think some on this messageboard would have a hard time accepting it, though.

littlelleyton
07-09-2005, 10:59 AM
You really are a moron


further proof that what i said is true. i find it hard to believe you actually play tennis. in fact im pretty sure you dont.

PusherMan
07-09-2005, 11:01 AM
If you feel the need to come to these forums and chest thump about your stength, you aren't half the man you think you are.

Type40
07-09-2005, 11:03 AM
Clearly women are far better at tennis than men.
How can anyone argue against that.

littlelleyton
07-09-2005, 11:05 AM
Hi Littlelleyton! This winter I was practicing indoors and I chose to practice return of serve against a woman because she is one of the biggest servers in the club. She is only about 5'6", average height, and has a really big serve which she can vary with slice, etc. Practicing with her was the best thing I could have done for my return game. There is a male highschool senior who is about 6'3" who can serve bombs but the small woman has a better, bigger serve. I think she has the best serve of anyone in the club. Case by case basis as I have been saying. I think some on this messageboard would have a hard time accepting it, though.

Tennissavvy, my hitting partner is my mixed doubles partner and i choose to hit with her because she can consistantly get the ball back during practice and keep a rally going. im not saying she would beat the guys im the club and im not saying she is better, she is however more consistant.
its a shame that people on this board can not debate a subject without feeling the need to name call and be abusive as health debate is part of life, it brings on social skills and makes you aware that there are actually different points of view in the world. i welcome someone to object to what i have said but they must be prepared to explain there reasoning behind it and if they can do this i will listen. as for people that hide behind pcs and name call, well thats their issue i think its clear for anyone with any kind of common sense to see why they are like this.

equinox
07-09-2005, 11:09 AM
Type 40, you are missing my point. Every player and matchup is to be taken individually. I am not saying that the top 10 wta players are all going to be evenly matched with the top 10 atp players. I am saying that every man can be defeated in tennis by a woman. There is a superior player of the opposite sex for everyone. You might have to look a long and hard but there is a woman out there who can beat Federer too.
Haha, thanks for the laugh.
Only way federer would lose to mirka, is if she bribed / promised him sex, if he let her win.

tennissavy
07-09-2005, 11:13 AM
Tennissavvy, my hitting partner is my mixed doubles partner and i choose to hit with her because she can consistantly get the ball back during practice and keep a rally going. im not saying she would beat the guys im the club and im not saying she is better, she is however more consistant.
its a shame that people on this board can not debate a subject without feeling the need to name call and be abusive as health debate is part of life, it brings on social skills and makes you aware that there are actually different points of view in the world. i welcome someone to object to what i have said but they must be prepared to explain there reasoning behind it and if they can do this i will listen. as for people that hide behind pcs and name call, well thats their issue i think its clear for anyone with any kind of common sense to see why they are like this.
I totally agree with you. I can also understand the situation with your mixed doubles partner. Many guys go for low percentage screaming winners and make a lot of errors. I have found most women are more consistent and can have longer rallies which is of course, good for practice. I hope you have a lot of fun with your consistent gal pal.
I'm leaving soon to play some tennis since the weather is so good today.
Later Mate. :D

littlelleyton
07-09-2005, 11:17 AM
I totally agree with you. I can also understand the situation with your mixed doubles partner. Many guys go for low percentage screaming winners and make a lot of errors. I have found most women are more consistent and can have longer rallies which is of course, good for practice. I hope you have a lot of fun with your consistent gal pal.
I'm leaving soon to play some tennis since the weather is so good today.
Later Mate. :D

yea no probs i have a hit at 8pm so im off soon too as the weather for scotland is tops just now, nearly hitting high 20s here sun is blazing hahaha :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
drop me a line sometime mate

Young Pete
07-09-2005, 11:19 AM
Much is made about Riggs losing to King, but no one ever talks about a worn down Kaarsten Braasch defeating Venus 6-2 and Serena 6-1. Braasch was over 200 in the world at the time and was playing with restraint, hitting his serves at 60% pace. People also tend to forget about a retired Jimmy Connors beating an in form Navratilova easily. Connors could only use the singles court and one serve while Navratilova had the doubles allies and two serves.


THERE U GO THE ABOVE POST PROVES WHY THERE ARE MALE AND FEMALE TOURS IN TENNIS, NBA AND WNBA IN BASKETBALL, ETC, ETC, ETC. WOMEN DO NOT HAVE THE SAME POWER LEVEL AS MEN.

littlelleyton
07-09-2005, 11:34 AM
THERE U GO THE ABOVE POST PROVES WHY THERE ARE MALE AND FEMALE TOURS IN TENNIS, NBA AND WNBA IN BASKETBALL, ETC, ETC, ETC. WOMEN DO NOT HAVE THE SAME POWER LEVEL AS MEN.

i never debated the fact that the highlight sports like the WTA and APT or the NBA and WNBA are seperate for a reason. but is it just possible that WNBA team my in fact challenge some of the Europen teams, who knows as it is unlikely to happen but it is a possiblity and until proved otherwise no one could say anything other than their opinion.
England has just held the Womens Euro Soccer tournament and yes it is probably true that Germany, the winners would not be able to compete on the same terms as the mens team but i think they would give quite a good game to many mens pro teams. so what we are trying to get across is not that it is as clear black and white, women are not as good/strong/fit/quicker/more powerful etc than men but that there is a case for that the generalisation that men are better than women is not the case.

Phil
07-09-2005, 10:00 PM
As I said, golf is hardly a sport.

No, those women would not be remotely successful in the ATP. Theyd make so much more money in the WTA anyway being ranked WAY higher....

I went a little further in a previous thread. Replace "hardly" with "isn't" and then you'll be 100% correct.

obackvalobasha
07-10-2005, 06:32 AM
I agree with you. If you look on this messageboard, several months ago, there were debates about women competing with men in tennis. Most guys on this board are extremely insecure about the possibility of women beating men. Most of them are dillusional and think a male 5.o player would beat the top wta players. It is absolutely absurd. They are very stupid. Tennis is about technique much more than natural physical power. Some women can and do beat men in tennis. I am a pretty solid player but seeing many wta matches in person I realize that even Nicole Pratt who is much smaller than myself and who does not rely on huge serves and groundstrokes would probably beat me 6-0 6-0. If she's not feeling well and I am playing perfectly, I might be able to get a couple of games off of her. I am secure enough and realistic enough to state that.


If tennis is mostly about technique, we should have men's and women's tour togeather. This wont happen. do you know why? Because although in some level in tennis its not about physical power and what not but when it come to pro level it all changes.

Also I think men are mentaly more strong then women. THey don't chock on the key points as much as women do. Women are more waired to chock on the key points. Because women carries more emotion then men and they tend make decision with their heart than head.

x Southpaw x
07-10-2005, 07:17 AM
I went a little further in a previous thread. Replace "hardly" with "isn't" and then you'll be 100% correct.
Golf still has to be considered a sport though. Otherwise all those businessmen, working women and the really wealthy can't go round telling their customers, partners, friends that they play a sport. These people who are at the peak of society need to play some sport to sort of fit in. Walking 18 holes, hitting a ball hard and with accuracy... all these are enough challenges to them.

And whoever says female pro tennis players can beat male pro tennis players is not being realistic. Court coverage, serve, power, spin, footwork. Female pros just seem to be glued to the baseline, and just about all their strokes seem to be topspin groundstrokes.

andfor
07-10-2005, 08:27 AM
that's bull tennissavy, if her brother can beat a 3 time wimbledon champion, then he can beat any woman, any place any time. Because men are simply better at tennis than women. That's the fact, deal with it.

Thank you Type40 for being secure enough and realistic enough to state that.

Grimjack
07-10-2005, 08:56 AM
I'd like to really understand what the message is here. Why are women wanting to compete with men? THe issue seems to be about something more than sport. The idea seems to be to try at every opportunity to humiliate men who lose to women. Every time a woman comes a long who can compete with men like michelle wie it just highlights all the others who can't.

So let's say MIchelle Wie wins today, what does that mean?
IS she never going to play on the women's tour again?

What does that tell us about the women's tour?
Why even have a women's tour?

Why not just have one tour and let's see who else, aside from Ms Wie can compete with the men.

To answer the bold part first, they already have that tour. It's called the PGA.

As to why they have separate PGA and WPGA? The mission of the WPGA is to collect the finest women golfers in the world, and by playing tournaments and seasons, to determine who is the best. They do this because it happens to be the reality of the situation that MOST of the world's best golfers are men...but despite this, there's a market for this competition among women only -- so it exists.

But what of the PGA? The PGA's mission ISN'T to discover through tournaments and seasons who is the best MALE golfer on the planet. Their mission -- slightly more ambitious -- is to discover, plain and simple, who is the best golfer on the planet. It reflects the reality of this search to say that virtually every viable candidate, week in and week out, is a man. But to LIMIT the search to only male humanity would be to diminish the validity of the mission. The search is open to ALL comers, if they can hack it.

The women's tour is the women's tour because there's a market for women competing among themselves. The PGA is a take-all-comers tour because the market demands that as well. If it were gender-exclusionary, the product would be compromised. AS IT HAPPENS, the PGA is virtually 100% male. But the market can't possibly bear a WPGA, a MPGA, AND a PGA. Luckily, there's no need for a MPGA. All the men fit to compete at that level are already PGA'ers. So there are, for most intents and purposes, separate tours. It's just that the one (the PGA) makes allowances for ANY PERSON who shows the skills to draw the PGA's attention.

In short, only women compete in the WPGA because that's what's best for the business AND truest to the mission of the WPGA. Likewise, women are allowed to compete in the PGA because that's what's best for the business AND truest to the mission of the PGA.

equinox
07-10-2005, 10:05 AM
Former men can compete on the womens tour. If they're willing to cut off their peepee and shot themselves full of female hormones. Add a nice wig, couple of implants and wala bona fide WPGA professional.

RockyMaivia
07-10-2005, 08:35 PM
I think some people were taking Type 40 or whatever the wrong way...He wasn't saying that no matter what any woman can not beat any man...I believe what he was saying is that if you have the best male tennis player play against the best female tennis player, the male will win, which i whole heartedly agree with. I believe this holds true for most sports (i can't think of any sport where the best woman is better than the best man, but there probably is one, like synchronized swimming or something).

obackvalobasha
07-11-2005, 04:46 AM
or like cheerer leading ... i might be wrong

baseliner
07-11-2005, 06:26 AM
In the US its the LPGA rather than the WPGA. Some say the "L" stands for "Ladies". As for an earlier question about Evert's brother John, he played college tennis at Auburn. All I remember of him was that he never won the SEC (South Eastern Conference) tennis tournament, so I think it is fair to say he was a mediocre Division 1 college player. I think he tried to play challenger circuit but was unsuccessful. May have played Grand Slam mixed doubles with his sister once or twice without spectacular results. Interesting fact in the Michelle Wie controversy is that she may have competed on the PGA but has yet to make a cut on the PGA. Last woman to make the cut in a PGA tour event was Babe Didrickson Zaharas (Sp?) in 1945. Also in the Karsten Borsch "match" against Venus then Serena remember he had played 18 holes of golf that morning and drank beer during the "match" keeping an open can *********.

Lizzy
08-29-2005, 04:03 PM
Well, of course women can beat men. I can beat my uncle whoīs not much older than me and bigger and stronger. I always beat a friend of my father.
I know that Schnyder beat a guy, who was ranked like 1000 in the world.
But, the best women could compete with top 100 players. Thatīs ridiculous. Thereīs no woman in the world, that could beat Federer or Roddick or the other guys.
Of course not any non professional player can compete with the women, their level is great.
But you hear about women that have no chance against their coaches, of course not any coach could beat the best women, but I donīt think, a top male player would ever loose to a female coach or a retired female player.
The reason why men and womens sports are separated, is because the best women have no chance against the best men, in all physical sports.
And thatīs not a claim, for example in athletics the numbers speak for themselves.
And by the way, did you know, that the men usually use heavier balls as the women?

35ft6
08-29-2005, 04:22 PM
Why is there a men and women's table pool league? I don't see why they can't compete against each other.