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Blee1613
09-19-2011, 04:11 PM
I had to rework my entire 2nd serve, because it just completely fell apart.
It's coming along well I guess, but my coach's kick serve is completely different.

He gets it over the net higher and it kicks extremely high and a bit sideways. This isn't like full blast 90 mph second serve. This is a warm-up... He just steps right up to the line completely relaxed, legs are barely involved, and he hits it like that. The path of the ball is like a perfect rainbow. He's hitting it with like 25% of his regular serve and it can kick maybe 6 ft...

My kick serve, is a lot lower over the net, and has less kick. So I guess my main question is, how do I control my net clearance on a kick serve and how do I get that perfect arc

LeeD
09-19-2011, 07:03 PM
Hit 10, aim higher from the 11th onward.
Higher clearance, higher bounce.
Taller contact point, higher bounce.
More spin, higher bounce.
More speed, lower bounce.
Notice the last one! Slow that serve speed down, increase the spin and arc over the net.

Nellie
09-20-2011, 08:07 AM
You are no hitting a "kick" serve if it is low over the net. The whole point is that you want a lot of net clearance for an extremely high percentage shot.

It sounds like you are not hitting up at and brushing up the back of the ball - to me, the key is to stay sideways as much as possible and to extend you arm up and through the ball. This is why you see a lot of people finish way the forehand side on the kick serve.

Limpinhitter
09-20-2011, 08:14 AM
I had to rework my entire 2nd serve, because it just completely fell apart.
It's coming along well I guess, but my coach's kick serve is completely different.

He gets it over the net higher and it kicks extremely high and a bit sideways. This isn't like full blast 90 mph second serve. This is a warm-up... He just steps right up to the line completely relaxed, legs are barely involved, and he hits it like that. The path of the ball is like a perfect rainbow. He's hitting it with like 25% of his regular serve and it can kick maybe 6 ft...

My kick serve, is a lot lower over the net, and has less kick. So I guess my main question is, how do I control my net clearance on a kick serve and how do I get that perfect arc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQEpn7spU8o&feature=relmfu

Blee1613
09-20-2011, 09:15 PM
Ok but one thing is, I feel like I have almost no power... Like when I'm in the backscratch position and just try the serve from there I can't even get the ball over the net.

Roy125
09-20-2011, 09:26 PM
Ok but one thing is, I feel like I have almost no power... Like when I'm in the backscratch position and just try the serve from there I can't even get the ball over the net.

Hit through the ball more then. Except with a little added topspin.

Funbun
09-20-2011, 09:40 PM
Ok but one thing is, I feel like I have almost no power... Like when I'm in the backscratch position and just try the serve from there I can't even get the ball over the net.

You're using your body to serve. That means you're bending your knees, moving your hips forward, rotating your shoulders. These are basic serve mechanics. I assume you don't want to put in the leg drive for now, so just focus on the shoulder turn.

Don't start from the backscratch position. Imagine throwing a football; you don't start your arm behind you. Instead, you keep it in a neutral position, then the snap-back and throw come after naturally. Same applies to throwing a baseball.

Start from the trophy position and slowly go through the motion, making sure you contact the ball before you reach the top of your swing to get that topspin. You should be hitting the ball before you completely extend your arm.

Try hitting a few slice/flat serves with the basic mechanics down before going for the kick serve. You're going to have to toss the ball behind/above your head for the kicker, and that should come only after you have gotten the basic motion down.

Your coach is capable of kicking his serves up without much leg drive because he simply applies spin to the ball, letting the ball drop and make contact as the racquet strikes the ball on the way up, not at the apex. He's also staying sideways longer, which results in the "rainbow" swingpath; you're seeing him, essentially, brush up the back of the ball, then finishing naturally to the side.

I agree with LeeD, as it is the for everyone here 95% of the time: aim HIGH over the net. If you're doing it right, you should notice that your balls will go in when you think it could go out.

Limpinhitter's link is perfect; Will is rotating his shoulders to get that bit of power while maintaining a relatively loose grip so it's a smooth motion.

zapvor
09-20-2011, 10:10 PM
its best if you post a vid. we cant really tell what you are doing without seeing it

papa
09-21-2011, 06:37 AM
Well, I would agree with Lee but you have to remember that just "more spin" in itself, will not create height - the ball, as he says, has to have height on the delivery to bounce high - I might suggest something a little over 10 feet but, maybe a few feet higher but that's close. Vector people can explain this well.

An excellent way to practice this is standing "outside" the fence and serve over it - generally, fences are 8-10 feet so its good practice and not that easy to do - stand about 8 feet back from the fence.

Nellie
09-21-2011, 07:45 AM
When you first start with the kick serve, it should not have any power. Instead, it should look like a high arching moonball that goes way, way over the net. In fact the ball should be dropping down when it is passing over the net, which means the ball is something like 12-15 feet high at a peak height on your side of the court. Once you get the spin working, you can get more pace by moving your body/hips through the serve.

TennisCJC
09-21-2011, 08:13 AM
Some drills and concepts that may help:

1. Think of making contact with your wrist outside of the ball. This causes the racket head and contact to be to the left of your hand. This angle allows the racket to brush up and to the right for a righty server. If you do this with a slowly accelerating motion and aim about 2-3 feet over the net, you should get a bit of topspin.
2. It helps to toss the ball over your head or over your front shoulder. Then stay sideways and swing up and to the right. If you are serving to the duece court, your racket will swing in a path toward the right side fence say equal to where the service line points toward the fence.
3. Try to incorporate some wrist snap into the shot. You should brush up and to the right at roughly a 45 degree angle thru the ball.

Here's a drill I saw Oscar Wegner do.

Stand sideways to net in service stance holding ball in toss hand. Put your stringbed on your head while holding service grip. Yes, on your head. Your elbow should be up and the front edge of your racket should be pointing up and roughly toward contact. Now toss the ball to a location over your front shoulder and hit with the leading edge in a brushing action that goes up and thru to the right. This is just a drill to get the feel of attacking with the edge and brushing up and across. You should not serve like this in a match unless you want to be publicly ridiculed.

TheIrrefutableOne
09-21-2011, 08:17 AM
try barb wire strings, they helped me a lot

Limpinhitter
09-21-2011, 09:10 AM
Ok but one thing is, I feel like I have almost no power... Like when I'm in the backscratch position and just try the serve from there I can't even get the ball over the net.

That doesn't make sense. A kick serve isn't a power serve, it's a spin serve. But, you shouldn't have much trouble hitting it over the baseline, if you wanted to. Having said that, why would you start any serve in the backscratch position? That doesn't make sense either. The video I posted shows Will Hamilton beginning with the racquet in the upward position, not the backscratch position.

You need to post a video so I can see what you're doing.

junbumkim
09-21-2011, 09:48 AM
First of all, your coach has practice his kick serve much more than you have..So, his is going to be whole a lot better than yours.

It's hard to say what's wrong with your motion without looking at it. But, it doesn't sound like you are making a proper contact with the ball.

Really try to hit the ball at 7 o'clock position. Once you toss the ball, you should literally see the ball, mark the 7 o'clock position, tell yourself to hit that spot.

JackB1
09-21-2011, 10:18 AM
You really have to let the racquet almost touch your back before the upswing and keep your arm and wrist LOOSE.

MethodTennis
09-21-2011, 03:43 PM
try kneeing on the service line and trying it - you ahve to hit up it to get it over the net and down - try it first from the position behind the head then full motion then try kneeing on the baseline etc.

papa
09-21-2011, 05:44 PM
try kneeing on the service line and trying it - you ahve to hit up it to get it over the net and down - try it first from the position behind the head then full motion then try kneeing on the baseline etc.

Although this is good, watch out that you don't break your racquet - many have doing this drill. Put some towels, coats, anything to take the impact of the racquet. Once you know how to do it, its easy but at first some find it challenging/expensive.