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View Full Version : Difference in contact points between forehand topspin and flat semiwestern shot


nextbigbigthing1
09-22-2011, 11:37 AM
Hello
u i have a good semiwestern forehand , when the ball is bit below shoulder height, round chest area , i can really flatten it out and hit drive winners, but when the ball is to low ,or the ball is above shoulders i struggle to hit hard deep topspin , my coach says i need to drop my racquet lower and get under the ball so i can get up the ball etc, as when i hit flat i hit across. Also to pretend theres 2 nets so i really get the idea of ripping it. I really need a solid penetrating topspin forehand all the time , not sometimes. do i need to use more wrist and more of a windshield wiper forehand? but do i still hit it infront of my body like i would for a forehand more flat drive and return etc.
Also how can you hit hard with topspin and do you hit the ball later or earlier then you would when driving it flat.
Thanks i am a high level player but this sometimes holds me back when i am to scared to drive my forehand for winners , i need this to fall back on as it much safer and more percentage.
thanks

LeeD
09-22-2011, 01:13 PM
ONE key is higher net clearance for topspin rally balls, and much lower clearance of the net for flat winner attempts.
Other than that, different players have different problems addressing knee high balls and shoulder high balls, so it's not universal...the cure.

gregor.b
09-22-2011, 01:31 PM
I find on this shot as it tends to be shorter in the court,you need to be just a little less aggressive and concentrate more on placement.If you try to rip it you may hit long or catch the tape.Also,not trying to hit through it.You need a little more low to high,and if you go 'through' the ball,you will either need very low clearance,or you will hit long.Don't go for the winner unless opponent is out of position.

DjokovicForTheWin
09-22-2011, 02:01 PM
For a flat FH, you're still supposed do all of the loose arm/wrist unleashing kinetic via core rotation etc, correct? The only difference being the swing path, i.e for topspin start lower, finish high, for flat start a bit higher and finish pretty much at the same level.

dominikk1985
09-22-2011, 02:52 PM
rule of thumb:

further out:
-more extreme grip
-higher ball

deeper contact:
-more conservative grip
-low ball

spin has really not much to do with that, probably you are just slapping against the ball rather then really brushing over it from below.

nextbigbigthing1
09-22-2011, 08:35 PM
does further out mean , when ball further in front , and deeper contact mean when it closer to you?
yea u may be right about slapping it instead of low to high.
thanks

5263
09-23-2011, 05:53 AM
Sounds like you are basically doing a lot of things right and just need to find a way to handle the lower balls with an aggressive topspin.

One of the toughest things to get players on here to realize is how effective "biting topspin" can be and even to get them to realize that this balance of power and topspin can be accomplished on a regular basis. Most seem to think you are ripping flatter, hard shots or must resort to rolling TS, arcing shots.
IMO the "Biting TS" has most of the best of both of these shots;
given how it has good net clearance with TS to get it back down into the court, like the rolling TS shot,
along with more overall pace to get it thru the court quicker, more like the flatter shots.
Then the "biting TS" also adds elements of it's own such as a bounce that can be tougher to time cleanly.

I think you are on to the idea that is very important; you must get your racket well below the ball contact so that you can strongly accel "up and across" this excellent shot. To get this good "Accel", it does help to have the out front contact, but definately not too far out front and open stance allows it to be more out front IMO. The trajectory will not need to be a steeply up as a roller and you need to get the racket thru the contact with good accel, but not quite as much of the racket head speed will be into/thru the ball, because instead it can be redirected into extra spin. If done right this will act somewhat like a kick serve, with power AND a sharp bounce off the court; but like a kick serve that you can move anywhere around the court. The kicker may not scare you much knowing it has to go in a certain svc box, but try facing a good one where the guy can use the whole court and see how tough it can be to handle and how he can move you around the court to set you up for the next shot. The keys for me are: racket below contact, very strong accel up and across the contact, with strong accel for excellent racket head speed being a must to get the bite.

dominikk1985
09-24-2011, 03:52 PM
does further out mean , when ball further in front , and deeper contact mean when it closer to you?
yea u may be right about slapping it instead of low to high.
thanks

further out= closer to the net
deeper=closer to the back fence

nextbigbigthing1
09-25-2011, 12:32 AM
yes you are explaining the aggresive topspin shot which is extremely important. thanks

nextbigbigthing1
09-25-2011, 12:32 AM
Sounds like you are basically doing a lot of things right and just need to find a way to handle the lower balls with an aggressive topspin.

One of the toughest things to get players on here to realize is how effective "biting topspin" can be and even to get them to realize that this balance of power and topspin can be accomplished on a regular basis. Most seem to think you are ripping flatter, hard shots or must resort to rolling TS, arcing shots.
IMO the "Biting TS" has most of the best of both of these shots;
given how it has good net clearance with TS to get it back down into the court, like the rolling TS shot,
along with more overall pace to get it thru the court quicker, more like the flatter shots.
Then the "biting TS" also adds elements of it's own such as a bounce that can be tougher to time cleanly.

I think you are on to the idea that is very important; you must get your racket well below the ball contact so that you can strongly accel "up and across" this excellent shot. To get this good "Accel", it does help to have the out front contact, but definately not too far out front and open stance allows it to be more out front IMO. The trajectory will not need to be a steeply up as a roller and you need to get the racket thru the contact with good accel, but not quite as much of the racket head speed will be into/thru the ball, because instead it can be redirected into extra spin. If done right this will act somewhat like a kick serve, with power AND a sharp bounce off the court; but like a kick serve that you can move anywhere around the court. The kicker may not scare you much knowing it has to go in a certain svc box, but try facing a good one where the guy can use the whole court and see how tough it can be to handle and how he can move you around the court to set you up for the next shot. The keys for me are: racket below contact, very strong accel up and across the contact, with strong accel for excellent racket head speed being a must to get the bite.

yes this is the pro level topspin shot, thanks

xFullCourtTenniSx
09-25-2011, 03:26 PM
The best way to figure things out is to set a simply goal, go out there and hit that annoying ball that gives you problems about 200 times, aiming for that goal. Then add another (maybe even slightly more difficult goal), and repeat the process over and over until you get the shot you want, then continue practicing.

If you were a high level player, you would just hit the ball into the court... It seems like you're trying to improve too fast, focusing on the wrong things.

Shoulder to head height balls are basically the ones you're supposed to crush too... Or at the very least use them to set up an easy follow up by heavily spinning it into an aggressive location (open corner or wide).

nextbigbigthing1
09-27-2011, 11:59 PM
The best way to figure things out is to set a simply goal, go out there and hit that annoying ball that gives you problems about 200 times, aiming for that goal. Then add another (maybe even slightly more difficult goal), and repeat the process over and over until you get the shot you want, then continue practicing.

If you were a high level player, you would just hit the ball into the court... It seems like you're trying to improve too fast, focusing on the wrong things.

Shoulder to head height balls are basically the ones you're supposed to crush too... Or at the very least use them to set up an easy follow up by heavily spinning it into an aggressive location (open corner or wide).

yeap i do , i realised i was just pushing it back instead of smashing it for a winner, all about racquet head speed and flattening it out or topspinnng for a set up.
Just my bad mental attitude

Counter
09-28-2011, 05:15 PM
Hey 5263, allow me to zoom in on this:



I think you are on to the idea that is very important; you must get your racket well below the ball contact so that you can strongly accel "up and across" this excellent shot.

I find it interesting, because I recently stumbled on an article, over at www.hi-techtennis.com, that says:



"An extremely popular "tip" is to get the racket two, even three feet below the ball to generate topspin. This is an enormous misconception and causes all kinds of problems."


[You can find the full text of the article and the source URL on another thread: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=398768 .]

Accordingly, I'm wondering whether your advice here and the article's advice are at odds, or whether they can actually be reconciled (esp. since each may be referring to a different point on the forward swing?) Or perhaps, the hi-techtennis advice is geared towards hitting a "flat" forehand, as opposed to the heavy topspin one you are talking about?