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View Full Version : Uggghhh.....awkward FH


mtommer
09-30-2011, 09:22 AM
(Hey, finally some non wall hitting footage for mtommer...will wonders never cease....anyway.. :D ..)

Okay, so although I pretty much rolled out of bed and hit the court with no warmup, this footage was from about 10 minutes in and I was starting to finally get warmed up a bit.

1. Ignore the backhand....just.....ignore it. It was awful. I know it was awful and frankly most of that has to do with no warmup and trying too hard not to mess up having no warmup (this was an evaluation at the club I just joined to see what instruction/group I'd best fit into - and mostly it was just the no warmup which I absolutely must have to "sync" my backhand timing if that makes sense).

FH - there was really only one forehand that I liked and that was at 3:06/:07. Everything else...ummm.....awkward or so it seems. It didn't necessarily feel that way when I was hitting and I know I was a little tense and prone maybe to guiding the ball (I normally hit flatter balls) as opposed to hitting it. For the life of me I'm watching the video, it just looks...well...awful frankly...and for the life of me I can't pinpoint exactly why. Everything just seems long and slow, not the ball per se but my motion (hope that makes sense), compared to pro motions. Weight transfer/footwork? Slow reaction? Not enough unit turn? Anything immediately jump out at you?

FH Reaction (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaJlGdSEqwY)

dozu
09-30-2011, 09:51 AM
game is pretty darn good.

the FH, I think the issue is your timing mechanism.... you don't arm the ball, now, if you try to time the graphite (light) racket, but actually swing the arm/racket unit(heavy), you will end up rushed and late.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTjBXVQyiwg

Fed's take back basically starts when the ball flies over the net, while in your video some times you start the motion almost when the ball bounces on your side of the court.

so if you mentally time and physically swing the same thing - the arm/racket unit, your central nervous system will tell you to start the motion a bit earlier, so you don't look rushed.

purge
09-30-2011, 09:58 AM
hmm.. always hard to critique anything about the swing really when you can only see it from behind

didnt look so bad tho. the only ones you shanked were those you didnt properly move up to. if anything it all looks a bit hectic to me but i assume thats how you always move so.. cant really say much without a front or side view i guess

Power Player
09-30-2011, 10:05 AM
You're late on your forehand. That is probably why it feels awkward.

HunterST
09-30-2011, 10:17 AM
game is pretty darn good.

the FH, I think the issue is your timing mechanism.... you don't arm the ball, now, if you try to time the graphite (light) racket, but actually swing the arm/racket unit(heavy), you will end up rushed and late.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTjBXVQyiwg

Fed's take back basically starts when the ball flies over the net, while in your video some times you start the motion almost when the ball bounces on your side of the court.

so if you mentally time and physically swing the same thing - the arm/racket unit, your central nervous system will tell you to start the motion a bit earlier, so you don't look rushed.

Good point, Dozu. I knew something looked a little off and I think it's the late prep. Key word is a LITTLE off. He's obviously a good player.

christos_liaskos
09-30-2011, 10:38 AM
I think you're elbow is too tucked into your body, it seems like it's stuck there, during the take back and all the way through the shot, especially on that forehand you say you like at 3:06/07. Your elbow is stuck down by your side and to your body the whole time during that shot, you don't get through the ball at all. All the rotation seems to be going on around your wrist and forearm. Get that shoulder and torso involved.

Try and move the contact point a bit further out from your body, giving you a bigger take back (but that can be limit to what feels right) but more importantly gives you an opportunity to get your whole arm through the shot. This slightly bigger swing will mean you will have to start the whole takeback that much earlier, just like dozu mentioned. Now it's all rushed and too compact. Prepair earlier and give yourself some room to swing at the ball

arche3
09-30-2011, 10:40 AM
lol! after your explanation and saying you only liked one FH... I was expecting some dude like TTwarrior.

BUT, you can actually hit the ball. nice to see. just timing so its not a problem to fix as soon as you get grooved its all good. some good pace and spin. Good game. you have good strokes. It would be fun to play a guy like you.

LeeD
09-30-2011, 10:50 AM
Seems like you don't have a rally forehand and also a hard hitting winner attempt forehand. You have ONE forehand, all or nothing.
Your swing is short, but very quick, ala Courier...but you hit with only moderate topspin, producing a fast ball, but oftentimes, not much control. Either more topspin or slower swing would give you consistency.
Your consistency thing would be totally cured if your body was in more control, less hopping around, more balance/posture. You spend tons of energy just hitting the ball. Maybe you need a more specific TARGET on each of your groundies.
I think a wider set footwork would do wonders to straighten you body, give you balance and posture, to keep your upper body from leaning back at times.
You know you hit hard and solid, so I don't need to remind you.

Limpinhitter
09-30-2011, 11:12 AM
(Hey, finally some non wall hitting footage for mtommer...will wonders never cease....anyway.. :D ..)

Okay, so although I pretty much rolled out of bed and hit the court with no warmup, this footage was from about 10 minutes in and I was starting to finally get warmed up a bit.

1. Ignore the backhand....just.....ignore it. It was awful. I know it was awful and frankly most of that has to do with no warmup and trying too hard not to mess up having no warmup (this was an evaluation at the club I just joined to see what instruction/group I'd best fit into - and mostly it was just the no warmup which I absolutely must have to "sync" my backhand timing if that makes sense).

FH - there was really only one forehand that I liked and that was at 3:06/:07. Everything else...ummm.....awkward or so it seems. It didn't necessarily feel that way when I was hitting and I know I was a little tense and prone maybe to guiding the ball (I normally hit flatter balls) as opposed to hitting it. For the life of me I'm watching the video, it just looks...well...awful frankly...and for the life of me I can't pinpoint exactly why. Everything just seems long and slow, not the ball per se but my motion (hope that makes sense), compared to pro motions. Weight transfer/footwork? Slow reaction? Not enough unit turn? Anything immediately jump out at you?

FH Reaction (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaJlGdSEqwY)

Funny, your forehand at 3:06 was hit with a closed/neutral stance. I think your fh technique is very good. But, your shot preparation and set up is not very consistent. As much energy as you put in to your footwork, you're not using it to get set up and prepared for each shot.

I would recommend relaxing just a bit with your footwork and think of your shot preparation and set up like a batter in a batter's box. You want to be loaded up and ready to swing before the ball gets there. The more consistently you can do that, the more consistent your shotmaking will be.

mtommer
10-01-2011, 11:33 PM
Thanks everyone for your suggestions. I was finally able to go back and slow down the video. I definitely was not hitting the ball squared to the baseline/ball direction vector. I was late and it showed.

As for the footwork, it's something I've been working on the past few months. I've been trying to teach myself tennis patterns while increasing footwork speed as well as mentally training myself to keep my feet moving. That being said, wow, yeah what I thought I was doing and what I was actually doing are two different things. I'm so glad that I have video so I can see just how "hectic" (good word BTW purge) I look. I definitely need to work on toning that down.

mtommer
10-01-2011, 11:44 PM
Seems like you don't have a rally forehand and also a hard hitting winner attempt forehand. You have ONE forehand, all or nothing.

The ironic thing here is that I was actually trying to hit slower. It is true though that I don't really have a rally FH. That's probably due to equal parts mindset and simply not having very much court playing time compared to just wall hitting.


Your swing is short, but very quick, ala Courier...but you hit with only moderate topspin, producing a fast ball, but oftentimes, not much control. Either more topspin or slower swing would give you consistency.

Unfortunately I find it very difficult to produce top spin, period. My balls actually do have quite a bit of spin but it's mostly side spin which as you note isn't going to help me in the consistency departmet

MarinaHighTennis
10-01-2011, 11:47 PM
Thats one scary forehand especially the second one winner. You're really good and I'm sure you have a great serve as well. I have a friend who plays just like you: lefty big groundstrokes and huge serve(very hard to break). His first serve came too fast to control and so he was able to have such a big ground stroke because the returns of serve he gets after his serves is so weak. I assume your the same with those big shots you'll have very short points.

Big LEFTY Serve> forehand winner= winning combo to never get broken

MarinaHighTennis
10-01-2011, 11:49 PM
The ironic thing here is that I was actually trying to hit slower. It is true though that I don't really have a rally FH. That's probably due to equal parts mindset and simply not having very much court playing time compared to just wall hitting.


same friend same thing. If he learned to play smarter tennis(instead of bang, bang) he will be unstoppable and so will you(not saying you don't play smart tennis). I see great things in you.

mistapooh
10-02-2011, 12:22 AM
Your shoulder turn is just for aesthetics, turn more. Are you coiling at all with your hips/shoulders?

FH at 3:06/07: Your elbow is tucked in too close to your body, no whip/coiling. Look at how open your shoulders are before you even made contact, your body was already facing the net. Definitely look like you arming it like you have to hit a midcourt windshield wiper forehand. This is all constructive of course.

Up&comer
10-02-2011, 04:45 AM
You're late on your forehand. That is probably why it feels awkward.

Yep. Exactly.

That is why you tend to hit a slightly different stroke every time, which is what feels awkward. When you get a consistent contact point out in front, it will feel more fluid.

Up&comer
10-02-2011, 04:50 AM
Found it! Everything stems from you opening up too early. You open up before you make contact and then you try to muscle on the direction and placement. This makes you late.

If you are going to do an open stance forehand, start out open and keep your head still as you hit it.

Caesar
10-02-2011, 05:32 AM
You move dodgy and hit late.

Hit the treadmill and lose the keg. You'll move better and everything will solve itself.

onehandbh
10-02-2011, 02:58 PM
Everything looks pretty good except one thing. Your anticipation.
The moment a ball is hit wide and you have to run for it, it appears as if
everything falls apart and you have a hard time getting the ball back due to
your late reaction to the ball. I saw one backhand that barely looped back
into the court. This tells me that you did not set up to hit the shot. Your
reaction to the flight path of the ball was too late.

mtommer
10-03-2011, 09:18 PM
Hit the treadmill and lose the keg.

You should have seen me two months ago.


You'll move better and everything will solve itself.

If only it were that simple. My biggest issue is a lack on any type of instruction/coaching and I'm still trying to figure out basic technique regarding swing and footwork. Ideally one shouldn't have to think about these things while trying to hit a ball but alas I do. That would slow anyone down a bit. Unfortunately wall hitting only gets one to recognize one's own shot. It's not the same when hitting with someone and you have no idea where the ball is going to come to while trying to keep it in the court on the hit back.

BaboFan
10-03-2011, 09:32 PM
You move dodgy and hit late.

Hit the treadmill and lose the keg. You'll move better and everything will solve itself.

He doesn't look fat. But you need to plant that back foot well before the ball gets to you. That way you can push off that back foot and into the shot. I also see you arm the ball so try playing with an arm band on and hit by only using your body. Look at Andy Murray's old practice video forehand and backhand and watch how he sets up open stances and rotates with a little hop. He's not even using his arm. Master this and your good to go.

PS you need to drop your racket under the ball more to lift it with more net clearance

BaboFan
10-03-2011, 09:33 PM
He doesn't look fat. But you need to plant that back foot well before the ball gets to you. That way you can push off that back foot and into the shot. I also see you arm the ball so try playing with an arm band on and hit by only using your body. Look at Andy Murray's old practice video forehand and backhand and watch how he sets up open stances and rotates with a little hop. He's not even using his arm. Master this and your good to go.

PS you need to drop your racket under the ball more to lift it with more net clearance

DONT LOOK AT HIS MODERN VIDS! Only his old ones. I dislike this Murray, but loved the old one.

aimr75
10-03-2011, 10:25 PM
^ I love that murray forehand and backhand vid

Nellie
10-04-2011, 09:01 AM
Things I would change -

1) right (off) hand tuck is early, costing you power - I would practice a little bit of catching the racquet with your right hand on the follow through to get more shoulder rotation

2) bend your knees more so that you get more power from a left to right weight shift in the legs. You got too much shoulder "push" going on (big lateral shoulder movement from the left to right), which leads to a lot of inconsistency because every thing is moving around at point of contact.

3) Similarly, there is a lot of foot movement during the swing - ideally, you want lots of steps to position, set those feet on your toes to allow weight shift, and then, after contact, moving the feet to adjust to hip/shoulder rotation (so yo don't fall). If you are moving around during the stroke, you will have inconsistent contact points/accuracy

mtommer
10-06-2011, 08:17 PM
an arm band on and hit by only using your body. Look at Andy Murray's old practice video forehand and backhand and watch how he sets up open stances and rotates with a little hop. He's not even using his arm. Master this and your good to go.

Arm band? What exactly is this? I'm intrigued.

Also, any links to the Murray videos you mention?

BaboFan
10-06-2011, 08:40 PM
Arm band? What exactly is this? I'm intrigued.

Also, any links to the Murray videos you mention?

I've only seen the arm band but it has a rod that keeps your arm locked. I've seen pros use it.

I'm on my phone but type "Andy Murray forehand and backhand" on google. You'll see how he locks his elbow and uses his body.