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Ali Abdullah
10-11-2011, 10:00 AM
Here are a few shots I missed while playing today. Just uploaded the shots i missed so that a proper critique could be done. Mahboob Khan, BB, Yandel and the others, im looking forward to seeing your comments.

Ill be uploading more videos. This is all i could get my hands on. quality is also bad cuz i havent found a good camera yet but something is better thn nothing.

http://www.youtube.com/user/aliabdullah86#p/u/3/JBYa73tk40E

http://www.youtube.com/user/aliabdullah86#p/u/1/Lag0Breg7Ig

http://www.youtube.com/user/aliabdullah86#p/u/0/lITFH4e4vDU

http://www.youtube.com/user/aliabdullah86#p/u/2/1o93gWydXmA

AFTER SOME CHANGES: (advisable to watch after 1.03 mins)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9yuNWa5_Tg

dozu
10-11-2011, 10:29 AM
looks pretty good...

the only thing I see, is after the left hand lets go, it immediately points to the incoming ball. this motion gives that ever so slight impression that sometimes your body opens up too early and leaving your hitting arm behind you, which caused a couple of late hits.

the 'standard' motion is for the left arm to extend parallel to the baseline, so the body stays closed just a tad longer, in order to keep the hitting arm in FRONT of the body.

this will promote a more connected chain when energy is transferred from the core to the arm.

very minute adjustment... but should make a difference as apparently you play at high enough level that balls come fast.

LeeD
10-11-2011, 10:30 AM
Dozu does seem to know.
A lot of sports, you keep the oft elbow bent, no pointed forwards, just before you move into your forward swing, like a balanced upper turret.

Giannis
10-11-2011, 10:33 AM
Other than waiting too far behind the baseline and hitting some balls while they are dropping down, technique looks good to me.

Ali Abdullah
10-11-2011, 11:08 AM
looks pretty good...

the only thing I see, is after the left hand lets go, it immediately points to the incoming ball. this motion gives that ever so slight impression that sometimes your body opens up too early and leaving your hitting arm behind you, which caused a couple of late hits.

the 'standard' motion is for the left arm to extend parallel to the baseline, so the body stays closed just a tad longer, in order to keep the hitting arm in FRONT of the body.

this will promote a more connected chain when energy is transferred from the core to the arm.

very minute adjustment... but should make a difference as apparently you play at high enough level that balls come fast.

Thanks for the comment. This is the exact thing i noticed after watching the video. I have had issues in opening up my body too early.

Do u notice anything wrong with my laid back wrist? its laid back from the start and if u look from the front, the racket head goes way back behind my body. And the motion of the racket as well?

Ali Abdullah
10-11-2011, 11:11 AM
Dozu does seem to know.
A lot of sports, you keep the oft elbow bent, no pointed forwards, just before you move into your forward swing, like a balanced upper turret.

Didnt quite understand what u said.

dozu
10-11-2011, 11:15 AM
Thanks for the comment. This is the exact thing i noticed after watching the video. I have had issues in opening up my body too early.

Do u notice anything wrong with my laid back wrist? its laid back from the start and if u look from the front, the racket head goes way back behind my body. And the motion of the racket as well?

didn't see anything with the wrist.... I say just fix 1 issue first, and see how the balls fly.

Ali Abdullah
10-12-2011, 12:09 AM
http://www.youtube.com/user/aliabdullah86#p/u/1/Lag0Breg7Ig

Anything wrong with the footwork or weight transfer of this shot?

Say Chi Sin Lo
10-12-2011, 12:33 AM
http://www.youtube.com/user/aliabdullah86#p/u/1/Lag0Breg7Ig

Anything wrong with the footwork or weight transfer of this shot?

Yes, seems like you hit the shot with your weight on your back foot.

papa
10-12-2011, 05:39 AM
Well, the two issues I see are not getting the shoulders turned enough - already discussed by dozu and Lee. Some don't care to get the arm out straight to the side which is ok but you have to get the elbow out to the side to at least turn the shoulders.

The other thing that might really help is don't hit from a true open stance so much. IMO, your going a little too much to the side and not enough into the ball. I'm not a fan of hitting and staying on the back foot but I'd like to see the left foot in a few more inches. There isn't a fixed stance that works for everyone but you might try changing/modifying the stance somewhat and I think your shots will have more power and penetrate the court better.

I'd also like to see you a little closer to the baseline but realize your just hitting. When I have players hitting, I discourage them from staying in the middle and hitting down the middle. I think this a bad habit that is probably the best way to lose in singles - hard to get out of this habit when playing so do more CC hitting and it will pay off.

Ali Abdullah
10-12-2011, 07:47 AM
Well, the two issues I see are not getting the shoulders turned enough - already discussed by dozu and Lee. Some don't care to get the arm out straight to the side which is ok but you have to get the elbow out to the side to at least turn the shoulders.

The other thing that might really help is don't hit from a true open stance so much. IMO, your going a little too much to the side and not enough into the ball. I'm not a fan of hitting and staying on the back foot but I'd like to see the left foot in a few more inches. There isn't a fixed stance that works for everyone but you might try changing/modifying the stance somewhat and I think your shots will have more power and penetrate the court better.

I'd also like to see you a little closer to the baseline but realize your just hitting. When I have players hitting, I discourage them from staying in the middle and hitting down the middle. I think this a bad habit that is probably the best way to lose in singles - hard to get out of this habit when playing so do more CC hitting and it will pay off.

Thanks for the comment. The thing i dont get it is that even though my left hand is not turned fully and not pointing horizontally to the net, the direction of my shoulders are perpendicular to the net. Doesnt this mean that I have turned my shoulders properly?

Isnt the point of the left hand to get the shoulders turned properly? If im turning my shoulders but my left hand is still infront, does it make a difference?

dozu
10-12-2011, 07:54 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ImeQaAyFPc

shoulders perpendicular to the net is actually NOT enough unit turn in the back swing.... Fed prolly went 30 degrees past perpendicular.

the other impression I got is you are still a bit stiff and armsy.. check L&R tennis home page video and feel the arm passively swing around the body while the body turns.... this should give you the right sensation, instead of worrying too much about body parts.

Ali Abdullah
10-12-2011, 08:17 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ImeQaAyFPc

shoulders perpendicular to the net is actually NOT enough unit turn in the back swing.... Fed prolly went 30 degrees past perpendicular.

the other impression I got is you are still a bit stiff and armsy.. check L&R tennis home page video and feel the arm passively swing around the body while the body turns.... this should give you the right sensation, instead of worrying too much about body parts.

I see. L&R tennis home page video? I tried searching google for it but couldnt find anything. Can you give me a link?

Giannis
10-12-2011, 08:54 AM
http://lockandrolltennis.com/

papa
10-12-2011, 10:12 AM
Thanks for the comment. The thing i dont get it is that even though my left hand is not turned fully and not pointing horizontally to the net, the direction of my shoulders are perpendicular to the net. Doesnt this mean that I have turned my shoulders properly?

Isnt the point of the left hand to get the shoulders turned properly? If im turning my shoulders but my left hand is still infront, does it make a difference?

Well, I think dozu kinda answered this and he's right. Balance is a huge key here also and having the arm out certainly helps.

We're constantly looking for check-points throughout any stroke to either improve the mechanics or increase the consistency. Having the arm/elbow to the side, or beyond, is a great check-point that is used frequently in higher level tennis. Is it absolutely necessary, probably not. Does it improve consistency, yes.

What I find is that players get lazy (we all do) and as a result we have a tendency to take or develop shortcuts. In some cases, shortcuts can be positive they but can be a dangerous element/trait also.

As you probably know, I'm not a one style/one method teacher so I'd probably point/suggest certain things that "might" improve/change your mechanics. However, in some cases, the players style, although maybe somewhat different, works just fine for them and so the challenge is to work with what they bring to the table and see what improvements are possible within their individual style/framework. Its not an easy process but the "cookie cutter approach" can stagnate, set-back or hurt a player more than help them.

Other areas that good teacher have to be consistently aware of are the players physical limitations & age, their ability to understand suggestions, their goals, time limitations and so forth. That's why advice via this or any other forum, has to be viewed as "general advice/suggestions" because we're only seeing a very small snap-shot of the entire player and that can be dangerous.

Ali Abdullah
10-26-2011, 03:09 AM
Ive tried to turn my shoulders more now. Getting MUCH better results. Still not turning enough though.
Heres another video, better quality. Would be advisable to watch after 1.03 mins.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9yuNWa5_Tg

dozu
10-26-2011, 05:01 AM
Ive tried to turn my shoulders more now. Getting MUCH better results. Still not turning enough though.
Heres another video, better quality. Would be advisable to watch after 1.03 mins.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9yuNWa5_Tg

looks better, however the impression is still stiff....

the left hand lets go too soon.... if you do that, the right hand has to hold the racket up there before the drop, which causes the right hand/arm to tense up, and the racket drop looks manipulated.... and this stiffness carries into the forward swing and you get no whippy release that pros have.

before the drop, let the LEFT hand support the racket, so once it lets go, the right arm/hand/racket just goes into a gravitational free fall, (with right hand having very light grip pressure, so 2 out of scale of 10), then you get a relaxed whip forward thru the ball, then finish on your left side.

combine the above thought with L&R's drill, you should be able to feel the forward swing driven by the leg lift and core rotation, and the right arm just goes along for a ride.

Limpinhitter
10-26-2011, 05:49 AM
http://www.youtube.com/user/aliabdullah86#p/u/1/Lag0Breg7Ig

Anything wrong with the footwork or weight transfer of this shot?

On deep penetrating balls you have to stay low through the hit rather than jumping up as you did. That ball seemed deep and hard hit, and was barely above waist high. There was no need to come up, and certainly no need to jump.

Ali Abdullah
10-26-2011, 09:03 AM
looks better, however the impression is still stiff....

the left hand lets go too soon.... if you do that, the right hand has to hold the racket up there before the drop, which causes the right hand/arm to tense up, and the racket drop looks manipulated.... and this stiffness carries into the forward swing and you get no whippy release that pros have.

before the drop, let the LEFT hand support the racket, so once it lets go, the right arm/hand/racket just goes into a gravitational free fall, (with right hand having very light grip pressure, so 2 out of scale of 10), then you get a relaxed whip forward thru the ball, then finish on your left side.

combine the above thought with L&R's drill, you should be able to feel the forward swing driven by the leg lift and core rotation, and the right arm just goes along for a ride.

Thank you for the important input. I will put it into practice and let u know the results.

Ali Abdullah
10-26-2011, 09:06 AM
On deep penetrating balls you have to stay low through the hit rather than jumping up as you did. That ball seemed deep and hard hit, and was barely above waist high. There was no need to come up, and certainly no need to jump.

I have a habit of jumping on the forehand. Started doing it as it "looked good". Now its a habit and i feel as if ill hit the ball harder if i jump.

However, I am not sure if jumping or staying on the ground gives more power. From your post, it seems as if staying on the ground will give more power but I see players jump on quite a few shots.

Can you kindly tell me what shots I can jump on or should I not jump at all? If not at all thn what about the pro's who jump.

Limpinhitter
10-26-2011, 09:11 AM
I have a habit of jumping on the forehand. Started doing it as it "looked good". Now its a habit and i feel as if ill hit the ball harder if i jump.

However, I am not sure if jumping or staying on the ground gives more power. From your post, it seems as if staying on the ground will give more power but I see players jump on quite a few shots.

Can you kindly tell me what shots I can jump on or should I not jump at all? If not at all thn what about the pro's who jump.

Power is not the issue. Timing is the issue. The forehand in your last video looked mis-timed and/or mis-hit. In order to consistent make clean contact against hard hit, penetrating low balls, you have to stay down through contact.

The only time you should straighten your legs, or jump, is when the height of the ball calls for it. When the pros jump, it's generally because they are taking balls that would otherwise be at head height or higher at contact. Some jump when they don't need to. But, on hard, penetrating balls, that don't bounce too high, it's very difficult to time your shot and make clean contact if you are rising and/or jumping at contact.

PS: Did you see my comment in your other thread?

Ali Abdullah
10-26-2011, 11:39 AM
Power is not the issue. Timing is the issue. The forehand in your last video looked mis-timed and/or mis-hit. In order to consistent make clean contact against hard hit, penetrating low balls, you have to stay down through contact.

The only time you should straighten your legs, or jump, is when the height of the ball calls for it. When the pros jump, it's generally because they are taking balls that would otherwise be at head height or higher at contact. Some jump when they don't need to. But, on hard, penetrating balls, that don't bounce too high, it's very difficult to time your shot and make clean contact if you are rising and/or jumping at contact.

PS: Did you see my comment in your other thread?

Yes, ive seen your other comment and I will try to implement what you said tomorrow when i go to play.

Regarding the jumping part, I understand that staying on the ground will make me hit the ball more cleanly but thn why do pros jump so much? They dont just jump on high balls but also for sitters or like when federer hits an approach shot with a closed stance. Or maybe I havent paid much attention to the jumping part of pros and am not right in stating what I am.

So basically you are suggesting me to stay on the ground as much as possible unless the ball is very high....Is that correct?

dozu
10-26-2011, 11:51 AM
Yes, ive seen your other comment and I will try to implement what you said tomorrow when i go to play.

Regarding the jumping part, I understand that staying on the ground will make me hit the ball more cleanly but thn why do pros jump so much? They dont just jump on high balls but also for sitters or like when federer hits an approach shot with a closed stance. Or maybe I havent paid much attention to the jumping part of pros and am not right in stating what I am.

So basically you are suggesting me to stay on the ground as much as possible unless the ball is very high....Is that correct?

now I am urged to butt in.

so OP you see how I play in my signature, so you can say - hey this guy is half decent, maybe his advice is worth a nickle, or you can say hey this guy plays like crap and I don't care what he has to say.

now it becomes difficult when the party who gave advice has no face.... you don't have to take my word for it, but I believe Limp is a 3.0 old hack playing against other old hacks (and he's gonna come back to say that dozu never played USTA, which would have no bearing on giving advice on TT, since people can look at my video and take my stuff at face value)

anyway - regarding the 'jumping' part.... the fact that Limp calls it 'jump' should indicate that he doesn't understand the unloading process of the FH.

Pros go airborne, they don't jump.... they go airborne simply as a result of unloading the legs.

of course you hit the ball harder if you do it that way, because you unload more energy from the legs.

OP, there are no problems in going airborne.... as a matter of fact, if you feel you hit the ball harder by doing that, you are doing the RIGHT thing.

btw - I used to go airborne on FHs, but nowadays with knee/ankle that can flare up if I overtax them, I have changed the motion, and rely on more weight transfer to add pace to FH.... and yes, I do hit harder when I go airborne.

Limpinhitter
10-26-2011, 12:16 PM
Yes, ive seen your other comment and I will try to implement what you said tomorrow when i go to play.

Regarding the jumping part, I understand that staying on the ground will make me hit the ball more cleanly but thn why do pros jump so much? They dont just jump on high balls but also for sitters or like when federer hits an approach shot with a closed stance. Or maybe I havent paid much attention to the jumping part of pros and am not right in stating what I am.

So basically you are suggesting me to stay on the ground as much as possible unless the ball is very high....Is that correct?

I'm not sure if you read my post carefully. Stay down on low, hard hit, penetrating balls. IMO, the reason you didn't handle that last forehand well was because you jumped rather than staying down on a deep, penetrating, hard hit ball. Some pros jump when the don't need to, but, most jump on balls that would otherwise be head height or higher. I would also point out that it's not that easy to tell how high the pros groundies are bouncing unless you're on the recieving end, or near court level. They hit harder, higher, and with more spin than you and I.

Limpinhitter
10-26-2011, 12:19 PM
now I am urged to butt in.

so OP you see how I play in my signature, so you can say - hey this guy is half decent, maybe his advice is worth a nickle, or you can say hey this guy plays like crap and I don't care what he has to say.

now it becomes difficult when the party who gave advice has no face.... you don't have to take my word for it, but I believe Limp is a 3.0 old hack playing against other old hacks (and he's gonna come back to say that dozu never played USTA, which would have no bearing on giving advice on TT, since people can look at my video and take my stuff at face value)

anyway - regarding the 'jumping' part.... the fact that Limp calls it 'jump' should indicate that he doesn't understand the unloading process of the FH.

Pros go airborne, they don't jump.... they go airborne simply as a result of unloading the legs.

of course you hit the ball harder if you do it that way, because you unload more energy from the legs.

OP, there are no problems in going airborne.... as a matter of fact, if you feel you hit the ball harder by doing that, you are doing the RIGHT thing.

btw - I used to go airborne on FHs, but nowadays with knee/ankle that can flare up if I overtax them, I have changed the motion, and rely on more weight transfer to add pace to FH.... and yes, I do hit harder when I go airborne.

^^^ The opinions of a wall rat who has never played an actual tennis match in his life! The OP should know how much weight to give Dozu's opinions. In this particular case, Dozu happens to be flat wrong, and has no idea what he's talking about. But why would he, the wall doesn't hit back with pace or topspin.

HunterST
10-26-2011, 12:21 PM
now I am urged to butt in.

so OP you see how I play in my signature, so you can say - hey this guy is half decent, maybe his advice is worth a nickle, or you can say hey this guy plays like crap and I don't care what he has to say.

now it becomes difficult when the party who gave advice has no face.... you don't have to take my word for it, but I believe Limp is a 3.0 old hack playing against other old hacks (and he's gonna come back to say that dozu never played USTA, which would have no bearing on giving advice on TT, since people can look at my video and take my stuff at face value)

anyway - regarding the 'jumping' part.... the fact that Limp calls it 'jump' should indicate that he doesn't understand the unloading process of the FH.

Pros go airborne, they don't jump.... they go airborne simply as a result of unloading the legs.

of course you hit the ball harder if you do it that way, because you unload more energy from the legs.

OP, there are no problems in going airborne.... as a matter of fact, if you feel you hit the ball harder by doing that, you are doing the RIGHT thing.

btw - I used to go airborne on FHs, but nowadays with knee/ankle that can flare up if I overtax them, I have changed the motion, and rely on more weight transfer to add pace to FH.... and yes, I do hit harder when I go airborne.

Good lord, give it a rest, man. You can disagree with tennis advice without constantly bringing up videos and making personal attacks.

You're both right by the way. I've heard Will Hamilton and several other coaches say that pros jump both unconsciously (due to upward motion) and as a means to achieve proper contact.

dozu
10-26-2011, 12:31 PM
Good lord, give it a rest, man. You can disagree with tennis advice without constantly bringing up videos and making personal attacks.

You're both right by the way. I've heard Will Hamilton and several other coaches say that pros jump both unconsciously (due to upward motion) and as a means to achieve proper contact.

no, why should I rest?

what about the kids out there?

also, it's not 'personal attack' if what I said is true.

Limpinhitter
10-26-2011, 03:05 PM
no, why should I rest?

what about the kids out there?

also, it's not 'personal attack' if what I said is true.

The kids? Hahahaha! Dozu, the protecter of the kids! Hahahahaha! Dozu, you can't distinguish the difference between addressing a golf ball and hitting a modern forehand. You advise people to jump on low, hard hit, penetrating balls. Sorry, you don't know enough to know the truth.

HunterST
10-26-2011, 04:10 PM
no, why should I rest?

what about the kids out there?

also, it's not 'personal attack' if what I said is true.

Aren't you the guy who said Limp's statements about how you've never played a sanctioned match are getting old? I think it's fair to say you've talked about videos a lot more than he's talked about your match experience.

I just gotta point some things out.

1. you don't know if your statements about limp are true or not.
2. Just because something is, in your opinion, true, doesn't mean it's not a personal attack. You don't think it would be a personal attack to berate a paralyzed man about his inability to walk?

rkelley
10-26-2011, 04:48 PM
Yes, ive seen your other comment and I will try to implement what you said tomorrow when i go to play.

Regarding the jumping part, I understand that staying on the ground will make me hit the ball more cleanly but thn why do pros jump so much? They dont just jump on high balls but also for sitters or like when federer hits an approach shot with a closed stance. Or maybe I havent paid much attention to the jumping part of pros and am not right in stating what I am.

So basically you are suggesting me to stay on the ground as much as possible unless the ball is very high....Is that correct?

So just to oh so gently chime in here, you see pros hitting with their feet off the ground when they're swinging hard at the ball. I agree with Dozu that it's not intentional jump really, but if you prep with an open stance and good knee bend and then just explode onto the ball, your feet are going to leave the ground and your whole body rotates around with the force of the swing. Call it a jump, GFR (ground force reaction), whatever. I see pros do it all the time, I see the top juniors around my club doing it, I play with a guy who does it to me and he hits the ball extremely hard, and I've started doing it myself when I have the time to set-up. It's not just on high balls.

I also agree with Limp however that with a hard hit, low ball, you want to get down on that ball and retain control. You'll have a lot of incoming pace so you shouldn't need to generate a lot of racquet head speed into the ball to get good velocity back. You probably do want to get some good topspin on that ball to help keep it in. On those types of shots I believe the pros stay on ground most of the time. I know I do.

Limpinhitter
10-26-2011, 06:54 PM
So just to oh so gently chime in here, you see pros hitting with their feet off the ground when they're swinging hard at the ball. I agree with Dozu that it's not intentional jump really, but if you prep with an open stance and good knee bend and then just explode onto the ball, your feet are going to leave the ground and your whole body rotates around with the force of the swing. Call it a jump, GFR (ground force reaction), whatever. I see pros do it all the time, I see the top juniors around my club doing it, I play with a guy who does it to me and he hits the ball extremely hard, and I've started doing it myself when I have the time to set-up. It's not just on high balls.

I also agree with Limp however that with a hard hit, low ball, you want to get down on that ball and retain control. You'll have a lot of incoming pace so you shouldn't need to generate a lot of racquet head speed into the ball to get good velocity back. You probably do want to get some good topspin on that ball to help keep it in. On those types of shots I believe the pros stay on ground most of the time. I know I do.

To be clear, I wasn't advising Ali that he should never come off of the ground on his forehand. I was only referring to his last video where he jumped off the ground on a ball that was hard, deep penetrating and about waist high, and he seemed to have mis-timed and/or mis-hit the shot as a result. For that kind of ball, it's important to stay down through contact in order to time the shot well and strike the ball cleanly.

Ali Abdullah
10-27-2011, 12:07 AM
Input from everyone is much appreciated. Will try to upload a new video soon.

enishi1357
10-28-2011, 03:40 PM
I think there is a difference between jumping and going airborne.
If the ball is just high then going airborne might be the correct word.
However, if there's a alot of topspin on the shot, jumping is really the only way to offensively attack it.
Of course this doesnt always work for every kind of strokes.