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View Full Version : Sampras serve vs Federer serve


asman
07-11-2005, 03:10 PM
IHMO, Fed has a serving motion very similar to Sampras' one. Speed and disguise are quite the same, but I think Sampras had a heavier ball. Can the reason be in the bigger (more solid) grip size he used?

Sampras' serve is the best of ever!

phat
07-11-2005, 06:27 PM
I think it's the combination of strength/ power of Sampra, weight of his racquet & tension of the string bed that made his serves more heavy.

FedererUberAlles
07-11-2005, 07:23 PM
IHMO, Fed has a serving motion very similar to Sampras' one. Speed and disguise are quite the same, but I think Sampras had a heavier ball. Can the reason be in the bigger (more solid) grip size he used?

Sampras' serve is the best of ever!

It's not very similar, actually.

Cavaleer
07-11-2005, 08:48 PM
They're both superb weapons and each player exploits them to the fullest.

I think Sampras' was heavier and faster because of the string, tension and lead tape on his stick. Plus, his motion uses his arm, shoulder-turn and legs even more than Federer does.

But Federer did crack a few 129 MPH serves against Roddick. Perhaps he just doesn't go for as much as Sampras always did. His, Federer's motion, is very deceptive because it doesn't look like he's striking the ball with enough force to hit a 129 mph serve. I haven't examined his stroke the way I've examined Sampras'. I'll have to do that.



Cavaleer

Grimjack
07-11-2005, 10:01 PM
........
Can the reason be in the bigger (more solid) grip size he used?


No.

asman
07-12-2005, 01:31 AM
It's not very similar, actually.

I think is techically the same....platform stance, full shoulder turn (Pete a little bit more, may be), trophy position. Same toss, same rythm in smooth execution...The difference is about personal style more than technique. In trophy position Sampras' racquet is perpendicular to the ground, not Federer's one. That depends on the beginning of the motion.

hopeless
07-12-2005, 09:27 AM
Actually Federer and Sampras both have very different serve motions

Federer has an odd back n forth ball toss motion... its really difficult to mimic

Fedubai
07-12-2005, 11:34 AM
But Federer did crack a few 129 MPH serves against Roddick. Perhaps he just doesn't go for as much as Sampras always did.

I've seen him break 130 as well. He spoke to Bud Collins after the final and said he rarely goes for 100%, but instead goes for accuracy.

RafaN RichardG
07-12-2005, 12:03 PM
http://www.tennisrulz.com/atp/players/sampras/gallery/008.jpg
sampras

http://www.tennisrulz.com/atp/players/federer/gallery03/233.jpg
federer

sampras seems to have had a more "open" stance, whereas fed is more closed to the court

FedererUberAlles
07-12-2005, 03:32 PM
Their toss is different, and the way Federer times things is much different. Pete had a very rhythmic serve (toe lift, toss aligned withhim pulling his racquet up, etc.), Federer's motion is very quick, compared to Pete's, and it looks more efficient.

asman
07-12-2005, 04:29 PM
The photos are quite identical! What do you mean for "more efficient". Sampras' serve was the perfection.

fjgarciap
07-12-2005, 05:34 PM
I don't think they have similar serving motions, Pete's seems kind of smoother to me, he involves his whole body more than Fed does.

ctbmar
07-12-2005, 08:06 PM
What I observe
---------------
1. Sampras jumps alot higher upon contact with the ball during his serve compared to Federer

2. Sampras uses more wrist snap when he contacts the ball

3. Sampras uses more arching or "rainbow" trajectory, meaning more spin and forward swing action compared to Federer who hits his 1st serve flatter and with more faster full arm acceleration and faster toss-up & faster contact with the ball.

4. Hence Sampras should have a higher ball toss than Federer.

5. Both have equally good disguise on their serve and the ball is tossed behind their heads and their back arch are quite similar.

6. Federer serving motion looks more effortless and efficient while Sampras looks like he is exerting some strength when he contacts the ball, due to the wrist snap. I guess Sampras serve is more heavy because of the greater wrist snap he uses. However, Federer's 2nd serve kicks pretty high due to his better use of his knees, hips, shoulders, back, arm, wrist in a more fluid motion than Sampras who utilize more wrist snap that does increase power and spin but at the same time makes his serve more jerky.

7. Both have extreme confidence in their serve and can place their serves with pin-point accuracy.

8. Sampras lifts up his left foot alot more at the start of his serving motion compared to Federer.

9. Sampras eyes his target before his serve while Federer just glances at the corner of his eyes before his serve (alot like Edberg, very cool and almost like no-look pass in basketball)

10. Sampras guns his 2nd serve sometimes like the pace of his 1st serve and mixes it up with high kick serves while Federer is contented to concentrate on kicking the 2nd serve with tremendous spin over his opponents' shoulders 100% of the time.

11. Federer's standing stance is more square to the net (open stance) while Sampras rotates his body more (close stance) , like mcEnroe but less than mcEnroe. So Sampras uses more hip rotation compared to Federer.

Phil Daddario
07-12-2005, 08:13 PM
asman, you are only looking at one position.

They both used classical motions, those are general. Sampras' serve is classical, but has so many obscure and personal elements that made it so much different.

FedererUberAlles
07-12-2005, 08:17 PM
The photos are quite identical! What do you mean for "more efficient". Sampras' serve was the perfection.

I just think that Sampras really went for it on his serve. He got tons of free points, though.

Phil Daddario
07-12-2005, 08:22 PM
Not really, the individual aspects of the motions are much different.

The only photos provided were of one position that almost all servers reach. Not very helpful. Find a good video.

x Southpaw x
07-12-2005, 08:27 PM
http://www.tennisrulz.com/atp/players/sampras/gallery/008.jpg
sampras

http://www.tennisrulz.com/atp/players/federer/gallery03/233.jpg
federer

sampras seems to have had a more "open" stance, whereas fed is more closed to the court
From these two pictures...
Sampras back foot is close to the line, while Federer's back foot is farther. Means that Sampras needs more shoulder turn to achieve the same position.

Also note that Sampras seems to be holding continental for his flat bombs while Federer is holding eastern backhand grip for more topspin. They both achieve killer accuracy but Sampras has more pace.

RiosTheGenius
07-12-2005, 08:46 PM
From these two pictures...
Sampras back foot is close to the line, while Federer's back foot is farther. Means that Sampras needs more shoulder turn to achieve the same position.

Also note that Sampras seems to be holding continental for his flat bombs while Federer is holding eastern backhand grip for more topspin. They both achieve killer accuracy but Sampras has more pace.
good observation about the legs. I also want to add that from the pics. I can see that Federer bends his knees a bit more.
-the comment about the grip is subjective as they both probably change that depending on what they want to do and the photos don't tell us what kind of serve they hit at that particular moment. was it a slice serve, a top spin, a flat one... we don't know that.... it seems like Federer's might have been rather flat, and sampras's looks like he's about to hit a topspin serve. just my guess.

glass
07-12-2005, 10:05 PM
Surely, with regards to service speed, one can take into account the fact that clearly Sampras is the bigger man physically.

hopeless
07-13-2005, 12:16 AM
RiosTheGenius, actually Sampras bends his knees a lot, probably more than Federer.

Its just that in this photo Sampras is already straightening his legs in the process of driving up towards the ball

Whereas Federer has not done so yet in this photo

x Southpaw x
07-13-2005, 12:41 AM
RiosTheGenius, actually Sampras bends his knees a lot, probably more than Federer.

Its just that in this photo Sampras is already straightening his legs in the process of driving up towards the ball

Whereas Federer has not done so yet in this photo
Yeah I'll agree with that... I always remember Sampras from the unusually low knee bend... just some more and he would be doing Hewitt's "come on!" pose.

fastdunn
07-13-2005, 01:21 AM
In broad category, they both have classic platform service
motion. But I think their similarity ends there pretty much.

Federer's is more abbreviated than Sampras' basically.
Sampras' had more of evreything: pronation, shoulder rotation,
coiling, hip stretch. Still with better disguise, deadly accuracy
and crazy variety.

Optimal efficiency. Perfection.

He achieved it with super-flexible body and silky smooth
execution. He reportedly could touch both of his elbows behind
his back. He had a crazy extreme pronation and extreme coiling.
Mere mortals like us shouldn't try that.....

joesixtoe
07-13-2005, 08:47 PM
i think sampras uses a lot more shoulder rotation that fed does, plus i think he also moves into the court more that fed does on his as he is finishing.