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yellowoctopus
10-31-2011, 12:26 PM
I think there isn't a thread on this topic already, but apologies if I'm wrong.

Just wanted to know if there are players who have played or currently play both Squash and tennis. More importantly, if they have any input on whether the two sports are complementary or not.

For a few of you, I'm referring to the so-called 'Squash Tennis' and 'Lawn Tennis'.

Thanks

http://www.squashgame.info/images/pics/pi4483222.gif

sureshs
10-31-2011, 12:45 PM
Squash and rball use flat shots and slices and no topspin

5263
10-31-2011, 01:10 PM
Squash and rball use flat shots and slices and no topspin

and the very good squash players I've known have struggled with topspin, but been pretty good a doubles due to slice and volley skills.

morten
10-31-2011, 01:14 PM
quite different yes, but volleys are somewhat similar... but squash, with the flat, slized, hard and wristy strokes could ruin your tennis strokes... Just be aware of it. Also squash is more long strides footwork vs smaller steps,for tennis, so even if squash will make you very fit, it could make you lazy at the same time for tennis..(hard to explain) I was a nationally ranked squash and tennisplayer untill i injured my back 5 years ago...

GuyClinch
10-31-2011, 01:19 PM
They are kinda complementary.

The strokes are quite a bit different. It goes beyond just slice vs. topspin. The shoulders are different - at least according to the coach I had.. I was counciled to NOT turn my shoulders and torso (like you do for tennis).

I do think that squash will make you quicker and more athletic on the court - and will preserve very high levels of coordination. So for a rec tennis player its not bad..

But for high level players it WILL screw up your stroke, IMHO. The subtle differences actually matter at the high levels.

LeeD
10-31-2011, 01:24 PM
Any activity is better than sitting at home typing on this site.
Squash, racketball, pingpong, all work your wind and force you to move and adapt, which is better than giving useless answers on the internet.
You can race motocross to help your tennis! Motocross does not allow for any errors whatsoever. The penalty is rather high. It forces you to have a pregame plan, maintainance of equipement, forces you to get into better shape than for most any other sport, and teaches you quick recognition and reinforces quick reaction times.
It even forces you to scout the opponent (walk the track), get up on time (most races start around 7AM), actually show up and register too!

sureshs
10-31-2011, 02:22 PM
and the very good squash players I've known have struggled with topspin, but been pretty good a doubles due to slice and volley skills.

But they hit the ball darn hard .........

5263
10-31-2011, 03:47 PM
But they hit the ball darn hard .........

They also seem to want to stand in no mans land.

I used to play with a National champ squash player, who would say, "I can play here, But just not good enough yet."

I punished him regularly for it by taking advantage of it with my shots, and tried to explain that he would never be good enough to play well there.

Bobby Jr
10-31-2011, 04:09 PM
Tennis players who start to play squash traditionally made all sorts of trouble for squash players with their style - cutting off balls with volleys instead of letting it go past which squash players did a lot more often. That early 90s trend of volleying has stuck and squash players have become more and more adept at volleying (short and long).

I do agree with the poster above about spin. I played squash to a relatively high level for many years and when I played tennis with the odd squash buddy they invariably were flat hitters or slicers. In some ways this made them good chip'n'charge players for doubles but at the higher levels they were mincemeat for competent tennis players.

Timbo's hopeless slice
10-31-2011, 04:18 PM
delete please. post in error

Timbo's hopeless slice
10-31-2011, 04:19 PM
They also seem to want to stand in no mans land.

I used to play with a National champ squash player, who would say, "I can play here, But just not good enough yet."

I punished him regularly for it by taking advantage of it with my shots, and tried to explain that he would never be good enough to play well there.

well, it is in their head, 'get to the 'T'!!!'

Trouble is, you can't cover that much width and the ball fails to come back from the back wall if you can't reach it on the volley!

I was half decent at squash for a while some years ago but I had to give up tennis completely in order for this to happen.

Skills are just too incompatible, even the volley is really a bit different, and the groundstrokes are planets apart.

Squash might have helped my tennis a little with racquet head speed on my BH, but probably not, and it messed up everything else for a couple of weeks when I went back to tennis!

Ramon
10-31-2011, 04:29 PM
Squash and Tennis are complimentary to an extent. I was a tennis player first, and when I transferred schools to one that had a squash team I tried out for it so I had something to do in the winter.

Squash was easy for me to pick up. I learned it quickly enough to get on the team. However, becoming truly competitive in it was another story. I'd say it's about the same correlation as Racquetball and Table Tennis.

Tebow
10-31-2011, 07:46 PM
Here is my experience...I can say I have very sound tennis shots and not too long ago I tried to play some squash. After 1 week playing squash I went for a tennis session and man I COULD NOT PLAY. Because in squash you only "arm" the ball I was having a hard time to get my mind set up to swing. Even when I swung I was doing very unbalanced. Another thing, in squash you use only continental grip and I was very slow to change grips on different shots (and everyone knows how important that is). To top everything off, the grip size of the squash racquet is way smaller than the tennis racquet and I was NOT feeling the ball at all on tennis. The result, I loved playing squash, it is very fun and a great exercise, but I knew right there that I would have to pick one of them. Of course it was tennis.

NLBwell
10-31-2011, 08:50 PM
My father was a very good squash player and tennis player. They were complementary. However, he played squash pretty much only in the winter when there was no tennis, so I don't know about switching back and forth during the tennis season.

sureshs
11-01-2011, 06:45 AM
They also seem to want to stand in no mans land.

I used to play with a National champ squash player, who would say, "I can play here, But just not good enough yet."

I punished him regularly for it by taking advantage of it with my shots, and tried to explain that he would never be good enough to play well there.

I am afraid of getting hurt, so I have stayed away from squash and rball.

Fugazi
11-01-2011, 06:58 AM
I play both squash and tennis. Very different sports. What do you want to know exactly? (not sure what you mean by complementary...)

LeeD
11-01-2011, 12:16 PM
Complementary.
Both sports need hand eye to connect a racketface to a moving ball.
Both need good vision and quick pickup of the moving ball.
Both need somewhat good physical conditioning.
Both play against a little known variable, the other player.

GuyClinch
11-01-2011, 12:35 PM
Meh. All the kids on the squash and tennis team in my university said that squash would mess up your strokes. Most pro players won't touch the game for the same reason..

I haven't played a ton of squash like those guys but I agree with that. It takes a while to 'unlearn' the squash stuff each year.

OTOH I had squash pro that was better then the 4.5 guys IMHO. Though granted he was at one time #19 in the world at squash. So was a very good athlete.

For most rec players - I would say play basketball in the offseason - it will improve your footwork, speed and quickness but not interfere with your strokes.

Yes if you become very proficient at squash it can help you but if you kinda go halfway I don't forsee much of an improvement. The university guys thought it hurt their tennis game..

LeeD
11-01-2011, 01:31 PM
You can't play another sport that takes time away from your time on the tennis court, if tennis is your goal.
Sure, even running and some weight lifting can help some, but if it takes away time on the tennis court, it will hurt your tennis.
That said, if you don't play tennis for an extended period of time, then any sport is better than giving advice on this column.

vitas77remembered
11-01-2011, 07:28 PM
when I tried squash it was a great physical activity. I loved it. However, stroke wise I felt stupid watching these guys with awful wristy swings punish the ball so fast while I wound up with my shoulder turns and watched the balls whiz by. IMHO, you need to leave your tennis strokes outside the door when you play squash.

LeeD
11-02-2011, 09:52 AM
Your brain needs to separate tennis strokes from squash strokes.
You don't mix up shovelling snow with eating with a spoon, do you?

yellowoctopus
03-07-2012, 01:36 PM
So far I'm leaning toward LeeD's logic, that they are complementary.

Perhaps using continental/eastern forehand grip makes it less confusing? I find squash to be quite refreshing as you are constantly digging for balls that are barely within reach. This translates well to my ability to quickly react on the tennis court. Another observation is that I am not trying to line up balls and hit powerful groundstrokes in Squash--there isn't time to do that.

Perhaps I might encounter issues as I progress in Squash? perhaps not, we shall see.

Thanks to all for you opinion.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_MQ87o7qbJt8/TKWFvQ6F8TI/AAAAAAAAAWo/ke6DcCB5rvc/s1600/Tenille+Swartz+Professional+Squash+Player.jpg

SystemicAnomaly
03-07-2012, 02:36 PM
Meh. All the kids on the squash and tennis team in my university said that squash would mess up your strokes. Most pro players won't touch the game for the same reason...

I would not follow the advise of "those kids". While other racquet sports such as badminton and squash might have some detrimental effects at the very beginning, in the long run, they should have some positive, complementary effects. Your body/mind learns to transfer some skills from one sport to another. It is a matter of developing muscle memory so that they help each other rather than interfere with each other.

I've only played squash a couple of times. However, I have played badminton for more than 30 years and tennis more than 38 years. I was advised to stay away from badminton -- it will destroy your tennis game, they said. For the first 2 months it was a little tricky switching between the 2 sports. I found that my tennis hand-eye coordination helped me to pick up badminton quite quickly.

However, as I started playing with intermediate badminton players, I found that I could no longer get away with my tennis strokes. After a while, after learning some real badminton mechanics, I started to find that badminton was starting to help my tennis -- especially with overhead/serves, volleys, touch shots and reflexes.

I am sure that squash play would develop some elements/skills that would be an asset to your tennis (and vice versa). Just give your brain and muscle memory a chance to figure out the similarities and differences.

SystemicAnomaly
03-07-2012, 02:57 PM
Ever heard of Rackelton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketlon)? It combines the four most popular racquet sports in a single match -- table tennis, badminton, squash and (court) tennis.

I recall a televised (CBS?) forerunner to this in the early '80s (or late 70s). It may have consisted of 5 sports rather than the 4 found in rackelton -- the 5th sport was racketball. It featured elite players from the 5 sports who competed in all events except their own sport. For instance, Bjorn Borg played in all the events except for tennis. As I recall the competition also included Marty Hogan (racketball), Morten Frost (badminton), Chris Kinard (badminton) and members of the Khan family (a squash dynasty).

I believe that this particular competition was held twice. From what I understand the squash players (the Khan's) won it twice. Apparently, their squash skills proved very useful in tennis, racketball and badminton (don't know if it helped as much in table tennis tho'). Here is a link that references a post on a badminton web site that I made more than 10 years ago:

http://www.racketlon.com/newborgrack.html

http://www.racketlon.com/pingus-filer/image022.jpg
Sharif Khan & Björn Borg competing in table tennis
.

DjokovicForTheWin
03-07-2012, 05:53 PM
In squash you really arm the ball more don't you.

Limpinhitter
03-07-2012, 06:43 PM
and the very good squash players I've known have struggled with topspin, but been pretty good a doubles due to slice and volley skills.

I know someone whose tennis strokes are based on his racquetball strokes and, although it is unconventional, he is very effective at it. He's got excellent speed and court coverage, and among other things, can hit ridiculous low, pinpoint angles, from way off of the court.

Limpinhitter
03-07-2012, 06:45 PM
In squash you really arm the ball more don't you.

Mostly wrist snap!

4sound
03-07-2012, 08:25 PM
Up to a certain level there is a translation of skills from squash to tennis.

Tennis uses more core rotation on the ground strokes. Ball tracking is different because of the distance to the baseline. Squash players tend to setup later to the strike.

courtking
03-07-2012, 08:35 PM
squash will improve your tennis level 10 fold.. many tennis great playing squash for cross training.. Jim Pugh, Jim Grabb, Alex Obrian.. and many European tennis players use squash for conditioning training.. I believe even the King Federer plays squash to some degree.. he has great slice and squash shots..
I play 30 years of tennis and about 15 years of squash.. I must say squash is a great game and best compliment sport for tennis.. foot work, hand eyes, quick reflex as well as off balance shots are the best training using squash..

treblings
03-07-2012, 09:36 PM
i play racketlon for a number of years now. i donīt feel that one sport really harms the other as long as you clearly understand that these are different sports which require different technique, tactics, skills. in competition we go from one sport to another and have about 3 minutes of warm-up for each sport. so we have to change very quickly and adapt. that is very difficult at first, and like most things, if you practice them often it gets easy.

i wouldnīt recommend squash as a means to get better at tennis.
you have long rallies in squash, so that helps your endurance and also a lot of fast sprints. itīs a good physical training to become fitter and maybe more fun than going to the gym for example.

luishcorreia
03-11-2012, 11:08 AM
Some friends of mine are rec squash players. Some of them thoughtnthey would do well against me in tennis. They didnt.

One of them when playing tennis, on his first hit, almost ended up getting injured because we use almost exclusively, his wrist...

For what I see, squash players are very wristy in tennis

treblings
03-11-2012, 11:17 AM
For what I see, squash players are very wristy in tennis

correct use of the wrist is paramount in squash:)
i find that tennis players make the transition to squash much easier than squash players to tennis

SystemicAnomaly
03-11-2012, 01:01 PM
Mostly wrist snap!

I doubt it. People say the same thing about badminton and it really is not the case. The role of the wrist appears to be grossly exaggerated for squash, badminton and even for tennis. A lot of what people attribute to the wrist is really rotations of the forearm (pronation & supination) and also the shoulder. Sure there are some wrist actions, but to characterize most shots in badminton and squash as very wristy is erroneous.

Too much reliance on the wrist will lead to errors and excessive wristiness can might be harmful to the wrist joint and forearm. Wristy actions can complicate the timing of the shot -- ok when your timing is impeccable, not so much when it is not.

http://www.squashgame.info/squashlibrary/8
.

SystemicAnomaly
03-11-2012, 02:03 PM
^ Take a gander at the following video. Mike Way, Harvard squash coach, talks about cocking the wrist and forearm rotation. He does say to "wrist" the shot. The shots that he demonstrates employ every little wrist action on the forward swing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uuDRO8SKJ0
.

mhj202
03-11-2012, 03:39 PM
I seem to remember a story about Ivan Lendl, during his top playing days, playing a squash exhibition against one of the top-ranked squash players in the world and giving the guy a run for his money.

Given Ivan's tennis stroke mechanics and grip, it would make sense to me that he would be more suited to be able to transition back and forth between tennis and squash easier than many others-- Agassi for example, i would think would have a harder time translating his tennis game to squash.

Fugazi
03-12-2012, 08:38 AM
I seem to remember a story about Ivan Lendl, during his top playing days, playing a squash exhibition against one of the top-ranked squash players in the world and giving the guy a run for his money.

Given Ivan's tennis stroke mechanics and grip, it would make sense to me that he would be more suited to be able to transition back and forth between tennis and squash easier than many others-- Agassi for example, i would think would have a harder time translating his tennis game to squash.
I highly, highly doubt that Lendl could be competitive against a top player. I'm a B squash player, which is a pretty good level (probably the equivalent of NTRP low-5.0 in tennis), and I would probably beat quite easily most pro tennis players, unless they truly practiced regularly for several months at the very least (not so sure about Federer though, supposedly he plays a bit, and with his talent...). I played a couple of times with ex-tennis players that tried squash casually for a few years after international junior tennis "careers" (they both reached and NTRP of about 6.0, which is about 0.5-1.0 above my tennis level), and I barely lost any points. It's just two different sports, and movement, amongst other things, is completely different.

Now I don't know about Lendl's level, but I'd like to get more details about that exo: who did he play, when? was the match truly competitive? My guess is he would've struggled to win more than 2 or 3 rallies in an entire match against a top guy playing 100%.

Fugazi
03-12-2012, 11:10 AM
I looked up that Lendl squash exo on the net, and found that it was against Ned Edwards, the no 2 player in the world, in the early eighties. No way it was competitive in my book, but I'd like to be proven wrong...

mhj202
03-13-2012, 04:13 PM
I looked up that Lendl squash exo on the net, and found that it was against Ned Edwards, the no 2 player in the world, in the early eighties. No way it was competitive in my book, but I'd like to be proven wrong...

I'm having difficulty finding results on the squash match between Lendl and Edwards but my recollection is that Lendl won the first game but ended up losing a competitive match.

What you may be missing in your analysis is that, unlike most tennis players, he is reputed to have played squash somewhat regularly as part of (or complementary to) his tennis training. As I said above, I don't think that would work for most but given Lendl's strokes and tennis grip on his forehand/backhand, I could see how he might be one of the rare folks that could do both.

treblings
03-15-2012, 12:40 PM
the wrist is important both in squash and badminton. but you canīt say itīs īmostly wristī. it plays a role in deception/direction more than anything else. thatīs just my opinion after playing both sports competitively for a number of years.

and there is no way lendl could have nearly beaten the no.2 squash player in the world. itīs much more likely that he would beat tiger woods in a round of golf:)

Fugazi
03-15-2012, 09:57 PM
the wrist is important both in squash and badminton. but you canīt say itīs īmostly wristī. it plays a role in deception/direction more than anything else. thatīs just my opinion after playing both sports competitively for a number of years.

and there is no way lendl could have nearly beaten the no.2 squash player in the world. itīs much more likely that he would beat tiger woods in a round of golf:)
Beating Tiger Woods is easy. Beating Kim Jong Il, now that would be impressive!

mhj202
03-16-2012, 04:07 AM
Beating Tiger Woods is easy. Beating Kim Jong Il, now that would be impressive!

Well, probably not that impressive anymore.

mhj202
03-16-2012, 04:14 AM
I would probably beat quite easily most pro tennis players, unless they truly practiced regularly for several months at the very least ...
Now I don't know about Lendl's level, but I'd like to get more details about that exo: who did he play, when? was the match truly competitive? My guess is he would've struggled to win more than 2 or 3 rallies in an entire match against a top guy playing 100%.

Keep in mind that Lendl had a squash court in each of his houses so he did apparently practice regularly for more than a few months. That having been said, I suspect that being able to beat you is very different from being able to beat the No. 2 player in the world.



and there is no way lendl could have nearly beaten the no.2 squash player in the world. itīs much more likely that he would beat tiger woods in a round of golf:)

Wish I could find some info online about the result of the exhibition but have come up empty because it was back in the 80's-- at least we were able to show that the exhibition did happen.

In any case, my recollection is that Lendl either won the first game or at least gave Ned a good run. However, as many point out, we have no idea what the actual result was since we can't find info, we don't know how hard Ned was playing - it could easily have been more of a hit and giggle since it was an exhibition where Ned was taking it very, very easy on Ivan until he lost a few points or a game and then played for real.

treblings
03-16-2012, 11:35 AM
Stefan Edberg played competitive squash for a number of years and still does for all i know. first division in sweden. and played some exos against
pros, without success though

Fugazi
03-16-2012, 09:19 PM
Stefan Edberg played competitive squash for a number of years and still does for all i know. first division in sweden. and played some exos against
pros, without success though
Yeah I heard about Edberg. Do you have a link for a video by any chance?

treblings
03-17-2012, 01:44 PM
Yeah I heard about Edberg. Do you have a link for a video by any chance?

unfortunately no:( he played against joe kreiss in 2003 and thereīs an article and picture of that on kreissīwebsite.