Mcenroe's Serve

[new_west]

I would really like to emulate John Mcenroe's serve. I think its a great, very unique serve, still probably good in today's standards (He served 130 mph at Wimbledon) I am a lefty like Mcenroe and copying a bit of his motion always has seemed easy for me. The only part I don't really like about his serve is that grip twisting he does in the beginning.

Mcenroe's serve in action:

http://www.shutterpoint.com/Photos-ViewPhoto.cfm?id=204687

http://www.tennisplayer.net/public/music_videos/winning_edge_mcenroe_lendl_serve_large.html

http://cache.gettyimages.com/comp/53161994.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=E2399169AC85D6DE9A21091711E5AD1E0A40EFF056D3 5A6D7757C85AE85A779B

Any tips/suggestions are greatly appreciated.

[Bungalo Bill]

I would really like to emulate John Mcenroe's serve. I think its a great, very unique serve, still probably good in today's standards (He served 130 mph at Wimbledon) I am a lefty like Mcenroe and copying a bit of his motion always has seemed easy for me. The only part I don't really like about his serve is that grip twisting he does in the beginning.

Mcenroe's serve in action:

http://www.shutterpoint.com/Photos-ViewPhoto.cfm?id=204687

http://www.tennisplayer.net/public/music_videos/winning_edge_mcenroe_lendl_serve_large.html

http://cache.gettyimages.com/comp/53161994.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=E2399169AC85D6DE9A21091711E5AD1E0A40EFF056D3 5A6D7757C85AE85A779B

Any tips/suggestions are greatly appreciated.

I wouldnt. Try and emulate someone else. But if you insist, you are on your own. Good luck.

[supersmash]

the first picture is a giant footfault.. Calling: KK!

[x Southpaw x]

I don't know much about McEnroe excpet he's a commentator... but uncle who doesn't play tennis knows something about pro tennis... and told me something along the lines of "I can tell you one thing: John McEnroe is an a$$hole." Didn't know why then... but later found out it was something to do with his attitude on court. O___O

EDIT: Add-on: LOL that is a pretty extreme footfault!

[lanky]

Im a lefty-dont try its unique.If you want a lefty serve to emulate I suggest take a look at wayne arthurs.

[Marius_Hancu]

I don't know much about McEnroe excpet he's a commentator...

then do some searches and read.

[x Southpaw x]

then do some searches and read.
First thing my search gave me was....

John McEnroe was a winner and a whiner, a super talent nicknamed Superbrat.

And his hairstyle is weird... not to mention bad... guess it's classic fashion. -shrug-

Edit, add-on:
He fills his time by playing on the over-35s tour and being a TV color commentator at major tournaments. He still shoots from the hip with his mouth, only now he earns money for doing it instead of dishing it out in fines.
ROFLMAO

Second edit, add-on: new_west you said you're in high school... are you from SAS? varsity tennis?

[Galactus]

I wouldnt. Try and emulate someone else. But if you insist, you are on your own. Good luck.
Bill,
1 - why do you suggest not to emulate Mac's serve?
2 - which players' serve would you suggest as an alterantive to use as a blueprint?

[Marius_Hancu]

First thing my search gave me was....

John McEnroe was a winner

He was:
http://www.tennisfame.com/enshrinees/john_mcenroe.html

[FiveO]

Proceed with caution, if chosing Mc's serve as a model to emulate:


Firstly, while Mc may have not appeared to be as gifted a natural athlete as some, his BALANCE was incredible. His "tightrope" stance on the serve requires incredible balance to employ AND achieve a good end result. Most of us do not have this ability in the balance department.

Secondly. the toss. That hunched over starting position is all well and good. But if electing to use something like it, make sure NOT to allow the torso's straightening to upright be PART of the toss. Large muscles (back) lifting a light object (the ball) a short distance, are likely to produce erratic results.

Most importantly: one needs to truly understand the core elements of the serve to be able to pick them out of Mc's complicated motion. If not, I'd be concerned that some (especially those who are "self-instructing") will be distracted from those core elements by the idiosyncrasies. There's alot of motion in JMc's serve. It is loaded with idiosyncrasies. BUT stroke idiosyncrasy is just that. Personal. His. They are the result of Mc's senses of balance, rhythm, etc. Not yours or anyone else's. Everyone develops their own. IMO you should develop yours. If you can identify the core elements in Mc's motion emulate those. BUT don't copy someone else's idiosyncrasy. Square pegs, round holes.

Also, IMO, more motion is likely to lead to more potential for something to go awry and the more difficult it will be to isolate and correct the problem. The more complicated a machine the more things can go awry. Employ the K.I.S.S. principle.

Good luck.

[joe sch]

I think you can definetely try to incorporate some of the strenghts of Mac serve. His balance was outstanding and if you can use that "tightrope" stance rather than the platform or pinpoint then you can really use resultant forward momentum to add power and help you get into the court faster. Advantages for S/V players, becareful of foot fault problems. Mac used an extremely long and backwards windup which can add alot of racket head speed for service power. This motion and the ball contact points needs superb timing, racket head feel and flexibility. You will need to have great timing, touch and flexibility to try Macs techniques and they will take many years to master. Go for it if your not in a hurry otherwise try for the Roddick motion :)

[Bungalo Bill]

Bill,
1 - why do you suggest not to emulate Mac's serve?
2 - which players' serve would you suggest as an alterantive to use as a blueprint?

I think Mac's stance for one thing was an extreme. There are not many players emulating his serve even though he was one of the best players in the world.

It is a lot like saying the Eastern forehand grip for serving is great because Boris Becker did it. This is also an exaggerated statement and few players do it.

There are plenty of good players with great serves that can be emulated. Sampras, Rafter (when he opened his shoulders more), Haas, many many other players. I even like Roddicks serve, especially how loose his shoulder is as he pounds the ball forward in the court.

I just think there are better models. After you get the "basic" serve down if you want to go with Mac's serve then do it but at least you will have something to compare it too. Also, remember that real sideways stance was to correct something or avoid injury (cant remember) from what he was doing with his original serve.

I am not saying to not do it, I just think there are better models.

Now, if you said I wanted to move the ball around like Mac, I would say study hard. But his serve was very unique to him and only him. Duplicating his serve is difficult and somewhat unnatural for the masses.

[Deckard]

I remember watching MC serve/play in his heyday (long before I picked up a racket) and I always thought it was a thing of beauty.

[simi]

If I remember correctly, his serve motion was developed in response to some back problems early in his career.

[POGO]

I never liked MC's serve motion.

Did he actually serve with any pace with his serve motion?

[Bungalo Bill]

...if you can use that "tightrope" stance rather than the platform or pinpoint...

I think the key word here is "if".

then you can really use resultant forward momentum to add power and help you get into the court faster.

It is pretty clear that there are easier ways to add power in a serve then resorting to Macs. sideways stance. It is not a serve to emulate as I have not seen one pro have his kind of serve. With the intense analysis that goes on in tennis, you would think the coaches would have realized this and developed their players to do this.

Advantages for S/V players, becareful of foot fault problems. Mac used an extremely long and backwards windup which can add alot of racket head speed for service power.

Again, I disagree with the S&V approach. Sampras, Rafter, Edberg, and Federer are the men to copy regarding S&V serving rather then Mac.

This motion and the ball contact points needs superb timing, racket head feel and flexibility. You will need to have great timing, touch and flexibility to try Macs techniques and they will take many years to master. Go for it...:)

Wow, we really disagree here. I am surprised because we normally agree on things. I would never advise someone to go for a serve that requires:

1. Exceptional balance

2. That was never known as a serve that was "powerful"

3. That requires superb timing

4. That requires great touch and flexibility

5. That will take many years to master - if at all!

There are so many other serves that will achieve as good of results with far less at stake then Mac's serve. I have never heard even Mac himself comment on his serve that others should copy. Or even a part of it. He did not have a normal serve and for S& V? Sampras, Edberg, or Rafter have to be first in line.

The over rotation that needs to be performed to get back into the ball is very difficult which only Mac mastered - not because he wanted to - but because he had to.

Sorry my friend! But have to disagree with you.

[erik-the-red]

We can all agree that the fundamentals of Mac's serve include the following:

1. Weight Transfer
2. Tremendous Shoulder Turn

...right?

[theace21]

Develop your own style, his serve worked great for him...Do you see anyone else serving like he did/does?

[Kobble]

Watch the top view of McEnroe's serve. You will see how his throwing motion unfolds with all the positions he achieves along the path. That is what is most important.

[0.2RatedPlayer]

since we're talkin about pro player serves, i try to model after safin and krajicek pin point stances

[Bungalo Bill]

We can all agree that the fundamentals of Mac's serve include the following:

1. Weight Transfer
2. Tremendous Shoulder Turn

...right?

Yes, there are certain fundamentals to take from Mac's serve and for that matter anyones serve. Weight transfer, shoulder turn all of it can be found in pro serves.

It is the other factors, that I would recommend staying away from. Mac had a unique serve. To recommend learning a "unique" serve before just simply learning how to serve is not good direction for someone to develop their serve.

If down the road, he feels he needs to make the same changes Mac did to perform his serve, then at that time he can make the change. But to "learn" to serve - no way.

[tandayu]

If you have opportunity to watch the 1979 US open final Mc vs Gerulaitis. Mc served very heavy with Wilson wood racket. Lots of spin and pace, even the second serve was very penetrating. I think it was one of all out performance of Young Mc on his first grand slam final.

[friedalo1]

Dream on. Serving like McEnrow. People will start laughing at you on the tennis court.

[Andres]

Im a lefty-dont try its unique.If you want a lefty serve to emulate I suggest take a look at wayne arthurs.

Or Goran Ivanisevic, but Arthurs has a smoother motion.
Maybe you can emulate Feliciano Lopez and Fernando Verdasco's serves.

[sedwickdotcom]

i personally like macs serve...good touch and accuracy

[Galactus]

If you have opportunity to watch the 1979 US open final Mc vs Gerulaitis. Mc served very heavy with Wilson wood racket. Lots of spin and pace, even the second serve was very penetrating. I think it was one of all out performance of Young Mc on his first grand slam final.
Same with Borg - McEnroe, Wimbledon '80....look at how far back Borg is standing from the baseline: easily 6ft or more every time and on both deuce/ad courts.

[tandayu]

Same with Borg - McEnroe, Wimbledon '80....look at how far back Borg is standing from the baseline: easily 6ft or more every time and on both deuce/ad courts.

And hit several aces from 2nd serve

[johnsheff]

Dream on. Serving like McEnrow. People will start laughing at you on the tennis court.

lol, i think it might depend; if you only copied the starting stance and style and didn't get the disguise/placement/power that he got, then people might well laugh. At most clubs if you copied the mcenroe serve technique and got the same end result as he did then it'd go very quiet indeed.

Realistically, copying a 'classical' style of serve is going to be a more reliable approach than copying the mac stance; Federer has everything you could want in his serve; reasonable power and spin, pinpoint placement and good disguise. For left handed servers there are quite a few good servers out there to copy, so you might be best picking one that is close to you in height and working in that direction. Wayne Authurs has a fantastic serve; power, diguise, placement, spin etc but if you aren't at least as tall as him you won't have the same options of angles,spins and placements using that motion.

[Ken.Knight]

I doubt it will work well in any case. It worked for McEnroe because he WAS McEnroe. You are not McEnroe.

In order for a sideways stance to work AT ALL, you need extremely effective shoulder rotation and adequate knee bend. Without that, you will lose balance immediately, and find all your serves...going into the next court. If you can't leave the ground adequately, the sideways position can only be a hindrance.

If it works for you, it works for you. But it isn't exactly forgiving. Not to mention there are probably a million and two extra crucial elements to McEnroe's results that aren't so visible to a casual eye.

[joe sch]

Dream on. Serving like McEnrow. People will start laughing at you on the tennis court.
If you could really serve like Mac, you could take a JK prostaff 70si wood racket and just about serve anybody off the court that is not playing on the ATP tour, and that includes all the WTA players :)

[troytennisbum]

......
Firstly, while Mc may have not appeared to be as gifted a natural athlete as some, his BALANCE was incredible. His "tightrope" stance on the serve requires incredible balance to employ AND achieve a good end result. Most of us do not have this ability in the balance department.......
.

Arghhhh !!!!!!
God I hate that "tightrope" stance !
It's a beauty to watch, but to go out and actually try to do it
is complete hell..at least for me!

And yes like Bungalo Bill stated I would also label his stance as being too
extreme.

[fedex27]

the ugliest serve i have ever seen and i dont know why anyone would try to recreat that thingn