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View Full Version : Will people finally admit that Nadal is done as a top player?


Heracles
12-04-2011, 04:54 AM
He may stay top 10 the next 2-3 years if he does not stop his career before but he is not anymore the player he once was.

Djokovic really destroyed him, he humiliated him everywhere on everysurface and in every big tournament. Following this, Nadal has lost all his mental and confidence. He does not think anymore he si the best.

Worst, he does not think anymore he can win against Djokovic. And he can't. He won't beat Djokovic except a fluke injury for the next 20 encouters.

Knowing this, his motivation has felt drastically. Now that he know that he can't be the best anymore, he is vulnerable to all players. His play since the USO has been dramatic. And he has been injury free.

Nadal will not win a new slam and people should stop finding excuses and thinking he will suddenly come back. The Nadal we knew is gone.

zagor
12-04-2011, 04:57 AM
Nadal still has his RG trophy, if he loses that next year(and doesn't compensate by winning a different slam) that it may be time to start predicting doom and gloom, too early for that now.

Heracles
12-04-2011, 04:58 AM
He has it just because Federer did all the work for him.

He would have lost badly against Djokovic.

zagor
12-04-2011, 05:01 AM
He has it just because Federer did all the work for him.

He would have lost badly against Djokovic.

We don't know that, it's a possibility but the bottom line is he held on to his best slam this year and also made two additional slam finals.

It's Novak's problem he couldn't beat Federer whom Nadal beat year after year at RG.

The Bawss
12-04-2011, 05:22 AM
If Djoko had beaten Fed, then Nadal in the final, Nadal would have retired for the rest of 2011 citing "injury" just like in 2009 but worse.

jaggy
12-04-2011, 05:24 AM
Yes 2011 was not the results of a top player

Netzroller
12-04-2011, 05:42 AM
Haha, since Nadal is clearly the 2nd best guy this year nobody other than Djokovic is a top player. And given that the Serb didn't make the Semis at the WTF he is no top player, either. So basically, there is no top player anymore, right? :lol::lol:

daddy
12-04-2011, 05:53 AM
Same old same old. Big daddy bets it all :)

Nadal is a top player and will continue for at least a couple of seasons. We all gave him like couple of seasons back in 2008 but he's still here and seems like he'll stay for a couple more imho.

ViscaB
12-04-2011, 06:02 AM
Tell del potro;).

Mike Sams
12-04-2011, 06:05 AM
Tell del potro;).

If fresh Del Potro can't even beat a tired Ferrer, how could he beat Nadal? :lol:

beast of mallorca
12-04-2011, 06:09 AM
He may stay top 10 the next 2-3 years if he does not stop his career before but he is not anymore the player he once was.

Djokovic really destroyed him, he humiliated him everywhere on everysurface and in every big tournament. Following this, Nadal has lost all his mental and confidence. He does not think anymore he si the best.

Worst, he does not think anymore he can win against Djokovic. And he can't. He won't beat Djokovic except a fluke injury for the next 20 encouters.

Knowing this, his motivation has felt drastically. Now that he know that he can't be the best anymore, he is vulnerable to all players. His play since the USO has been dramatic. And he has been injury free.

Nadal will not win a new slam and people should stop finding excuses and thinking he will suddenly come back. The Nadal we knew is gone.

I agree with you Heracles. You are the wisest here in TW. Rafa will not win a new slam after his 20 th GS. You are the oracle of all sage.
Bye, bye Rafa. Arrivederci,Da bo ti, sayonara Rafa. You have brought tennis so much. Fed will be so hapy.

By the way, Rafa sends one last buttpicking for you, 2 scratches....hoot,hoot.

DjokovicForTheWin
12-04-2011, 06:38 AM
Very ironic that Fed had to win FO2011 for Nadal in order to stop Djoker from having a CYGS.

beast of mallorca
12-04-2011, 06:43 AM
Very ironic that Fed had to win FO2011 for Nadal in order to stop Djoker from having a CYGS.

How ironic truly. Aren't you glad that Fed did not win a GS for the first time and Djoker won 3 and Rafa 1 ? How ironic indeed. 1 buttpicking for you, from Rafa with love, lol

Evan77
12-04-2011, 06:45 AM
well, people were saying the same thing back in 2009. then Rafa won 3 GS in 2010. He is a strange beast. I'd say let's wait and see.
Many guys were dismissing Djokovic as a one slam wonder back in 2010. We all know what happened in 2011. then Novak lost few matches at the end of the season and same guys are predicting that he is spent now, he won't be able to defend his points, blah, blah...
Federer was called Olderer, Shankerer just a few months ago. he was done. then Roger showed to everyone that he can still play some fantastic tennis. Now, after he won Basel, Paris and the YEC people are predicting he'll win 5 more slams etc.

We tend to exaggerate so much. It's not even fun.

The tennis crowds here (all other tennis boards included) are very finicky and so hard to please.

TopFH
12-04-2011, 07:32 AM
^However, in 09, he had no one beating everywhere like Djokovic is now. But, let's wait after RG to say Nadal is done. If he doesn't win against Djokovic next year, he may be done.

GOAT BAAH!!!
12-04-2011, 07:37 AM
Knee Jerk Warehouse is at it again...

OddJack
12-04-2011, 07:37 AM
well, people were saying the same thing back in 2009. then Rafa won 3 GS in 2010. He is a strange beast. I'd say let's wait and see.
Many guys were dismissing Djokovic as a one slam wonder back in 2010. We all know what happened in 2011. then Novak lost few matches at the end of the season and same guys are predicting that he is spent now, he won't be able to defend his points, blah, blah...
Federer was called Olderer, Shankerer just a few months ago. he was done. then Roger showed to everyone that he can still play some fantastic tennis. Now, after he won Basel, Paris and the YEC people are predicting he'll win 5 more slams etc.

We tend to exaggerate so much. It's not even fun.

The tennis crowds here (all other tennis boards included) are very finicky and so hard to please.

What you say is true, but it's also true that no beast is forever.

That's why next year's FO is the most important major, at least to me, because it will tell alot about the balance of power among top 4.

flyinghippos101
12-04-2011, 07:41 AM
People are stupid

/thread

beast of mallorca
12-04-2011, 07:42 AM
Congratulations Rafa for winning for your country the 2011 Davis Cup. That's another sign that he's done ! Next.

Mick
12-04-2011, 07:46 AM
to accept that nadal is done, you would have to believe that djokovic will continue to play like he did in 2011 but i don't think even djokovic himself believes that would happen and if nadal gets into a final and the other finalist isn't djokovic (or federer on fast surfaces), he would have a good chance of winning it. (nadal's problem in 2011 was the other finalist in the big matches was always djokovic)

OddJack
12-04-2011, 07:54 AM
to accept that nadal is done, you would have to believe that djokovic will continue to play like he did in 2011 but i don't think even djokovic himself believes that would happen and if nadal gets into a final and the other finalist isn't djokovic (or federer on fast surfaces), he would have a good chance of winning it. (nadal's problem in 2011 was the other finalist in the big matches was always djokovic)

With the same argument, to believe that he is Not done, you would have to believe that Nadal will continue to play like he did in 2011, making the final of 3 out of 4 majors, and 4 master finals, and win at least RG 2012. If he fails to win that major in june, then people will have strong argument to beleivel so.

In other words, whether he is done or not, has more to do with how he plays, than how Djoker does next year, since other guys are there to challenge him. Murray, is one. Del Po another.

Mick
12-04-2011, 07:59 AM
well. i don't know if you have read a comment that tsonga made recently about how nadal and federer are better than djokovic because they have performed so well for so many years. so, i don't know how well nadal is going to perform in 2012 but i expect he won't drop off the chart.

OddJack
12-04-2011, 08:01 AM
The comment Tsonga made was about their overall achievements, not who's better at the moment or this year.

BTW, I heard one of the Nadalites said that he had to do some knee injection before Monaco match. So his health is still under a question mark.

Joe Pike
12-04-2011, 08:05 AM
He may stay top 10 the next 2-3 years if he does not stop his career before but he is not anymore the player he once was.

Djokovic really destroyed him, he humiliated him everywhere on everysurface and in every big tournament. Following this, Nadal has lost all his mental and confidence. He does not think anymore he si the best.

Worst, he does not think anymore he can win against Djokovic. And he can't. He won't beat Djokovic except a fluke injury for the next 20 encouters.

Knowing this, his motivation has felt drastically. Now that he know that he can't be the best anymore, he is vulnerable to all players. His play since the USO has been dramatic. And he has been injury free.

Nadal will not win a new slam and people should stop finding excuses and thinking he will suddenly come back. The Nadal we knew is gone.


A typical TT rookie - the attention span of a fruit fly ...

SLD76
12-04-2011, 08:09 AM
The comment Tsonga made was about their overall achievements, not who's better at the moment or this year.

BTW, I heard one of the Nadalites said that he had to do some knee injection before Monaco match. So his health is still under a question mark.

For my eyes, Nadal needs to buy Ferrer a beer tonight, because if he hadnt softened Delpo up...it would have been straight sets victory

Delpo clearly ran out of gas the middle of the second set, which happened to coincide with Rafa's improved "form".

I saw nothing from Rafa today that would make me declare his is returning to his2008 beast mode or even his 2010 mode. Id be very concerned with that bh, the defensive posture on court and shocked home many times he was beaten on the fh side for clear winners. Rarely saw that before against Rafa. All delpo crushed all those weak mid court shots rafa was coughing up. I think once Rafa sensed delpo was tiring he did a good job of hunkering down on the defense but still..If he takes that form into 2012, its going to be a very interesting year in the majors.

As I said before 2012 is wide open:

1) where will djoker be mentally and physically?
2) is rafa declining, where he be mentally and physically
3) can murray mentally step up
4) can fed find his game outdoors
5) will a player like tsonga, delpo, soderling berdych be fit and healthy enough to make a challenge.

2012 is wide open.

Gorecki
12-04-2011, 08:09 AM
me Jerk in Warehouse at it again...


you have that opinion about yourself?

The Bawss
12-04-2011, 08:09 AM
Nadal will win 1 more RG and that will be the end of his GS winning days. The prophet has spoken.

ruerooo
12-04-2011, 08:11 AM
Congratulations Rafa for winning for your country the 2011 Davis Cup. That's another sign that he's done ! Next.

LOL. I know, right? I was thinking "I hope this poster wrote this before the final, otherwise he's going to look even more ridiculous than he already does."

:lol:

beast of mallorca
12-04-2011, 08:15 AM
Nadal will win 1 more RG and that will be the end of his GS winning days. The prophet has spoken.

Real prophets come from Cardiff, Wales and not Nottingham. You're a fraud.

DjokovicForTheWin
12-04-2011, 08:23 AM
How ironic truly. Aren't you glad that Fed did not win a GS for the first time and Djoker won 3 and Rafa 1 ? How ironic indeed. 1 buttpicking for you, from Rafa with love, lol

Well better for Fedal to have a 3:1 distribution than 4:0, no? Else Djoker would have accomplished what Fedal could never.

Crisstti
12-04-2011, 09:14 AM
For my eyes, Nadal needs to buy Ferrer a beer tonight, because if he hadnt softened Delpo up...it would have been straight sets victory

Delpo clearly ran out of gas the middle of the second set, which happened to coincide with Rafa's improved "form".

I saw nothing from Rafa today that would make me declare his is returning to his2008 beast mode or even his 2010 mode. Id be very concerned with that bh, the defensive posture on court and shocked home many times he was beaten on the fh side for clear winners. Rarely saw that before against Rafa. All delpo crushed all those weak mid court shots rafa was coughing up. I think once Rafa sensed delpo was tiring he did a good job of hunkering down on the defense but still..If he takes that form into 2012, its going to be a very interesting year in the majors.



Rafa came back from 40-0 to break in the second game of the second set. Hardly half of it.

SLD76
12-04-2011, 09:15 AM
Rafa came back from 40-0 to break in the second game of the second set. Hardly half of it.

ok, but are u seriously gonna say that delpo wasnt already tenderized by ferrer?

nadalwon2012
12-04-2011, 09:20 AM
He may stay top 10 the next 2-3 years if he does not stop his career before but he is not anymore the player he once was.

Djokovic really destroyed him, he humiliated him everywhere on everysurface and in every big tournament. Following this, Nadal has lost all his mental and confidence. He does not think anymore he si the best.

Worst, he does not think anymore he can win against Djokovic. And he can't. He won't beat Djokovic except a fluke injury for the next 20 encouters.

Knowing this, his motivation has felt drastically. Now that he know that he can't be the best anymore, he is vulnerable to all players. His play since the USO has been dramatic. And he has been injury free.

Nadal will not win a new slam and people should stop finding excuses and thinking he will suddenly come back. The Nadal we knew is gone.

Who cares if Nadal is done. At least he will win more slams than Djokovic and Federer in 2012. That may not mean much with Federer being an indoor specialist and Djokovic unable to survive a year of top flight tennis without breaking down.....but Nadal only has to beat the leftovers, just as Federer did for 3 years before the tour got strong again. The tour belongs to Nadal until Tomic fully arrives. So who cares if Nadal is done... Being done is good enough to win slams and get the number one ranking back.

Devilito
12-04-2011, 09:23 AM
The only way Nadal drops out of the top 10 is if he retires due to mental or physical burnout. His tennis ability will always be top 10. I don’t see Nadal as the type of player that would cruise around the low rankings hoping to make a move at slams like Sampras did at the end of his career. He’s an all or nothing type of person IMO.

luishcorreia
12-04-2011, 09:24 AM
He may stay top 10 the next 2-3 years if he does not stop his career before but he is not anymore the player he once was.

Djokovic really destroyed him, he humiliated him everywhere on everysurface and in every big tournament. Following this, Nadal has lost all his mental and confidence. He does not think anymore he si the best.

Worst, he does not think anymore he can win against Djokovic. And he can't. He won't beat Djokovic except a fluke injury for the next 20 encouters.

Knowing this, his motivation has felt drastically. Now that he know that he can't be the best anymore, he is vulnerable to all players. His play since the USO has been dramatic. And he has been injury free.

Nadal will not win a new slam and people should stop finding excuses and thinking he will suddenly come back. The Nadal we knew is gone.

Are you for real?

Nadal had a very good season. He won a Grand Slam and went to the final of more two (Winbledon and US Open). He also went up to the final of several Masters 1000 tournament: Madrid, Rome, Monaco, Miami, Indian Wells.

IMO it was a better season than Federer, who only won 3 tournaments and went without a Slam.

Nadal is ranked number 2 in the world, how can you say he is done?

beast of mallorca
12-04-2011, 09:27 AM
Are you for real?

Nadal had a very good season. He won a Grand Slam and went to the final of more two (Winbledon and US Open). He also went up to the final of several Masters 1000 tournament: Madrid, Rome, Monaco, Miami, Indian Wells.

IMO it was a better season than Federer, who only won 3 tournaments and went without a Slam.

Nadal is ranked number 2 in the world, how can you say he is done?

Don't take these haters seriously. It's all a wishfull thinking.

nadalwon2012
12-04-2011, 09:31 AM
Wonder what the thread-starter was saying at the end of 2009 :lol:

tennis_pro
12-04-2011, 09:43 AM
Are you for real?

Nadal had a very good season. He won a Grand Slam and went to the final of more two (Winbledon and US Open). He also went up to the final of several Masters 1000 tournament: Madrid, Rome, Monaco, Miami, Indian Wells.

IMO it was a better season than Federer, who only won 3 tournaments and went without a Slam.

Nadal is ranked number 2 in the world, how can you say he is done?

Federer at 30 years of age won 4 titles (not 3) this year which is still more than Nadal even though the Spaniard is 25.

sureshs
12-04-2011, 09:58 AM
Federer at 30 years of age won 4 titles (not 3) this year which is still more than Nadal even though the Spaniard is 25.

Yeah Basel is so much more important than the FO

jokinla
12-04-2011, 09:58 AM
He would have won a lot of tournaments this year if it weren't for Djoker having one of the best years ever, and if Djoker can't repeat it then Nadal will be right there, but either way he is still a top player, at least I think #2 is.

beast of mallorca
12-04-2011, 10:14 AM
Yeah Basel is so much more important than the FO

Basel is the true Grand Slam.....didn't you get the memo ? It replaced the Cincinnati.

kishnabe
12-04-2011, 10:22 AM
Nadal was done since 2009.....now he is well done...

tennis_pro
12-04-2011, 10:23 AM
Yeah Basel is so much more important than the FO

Yeah Barcelona is so much more important than the WTF

at least Federer won his titles fair and square, he was by far the most in-form player at the end of 2011, Nadal had to avoid Djokovic in all 3 tournaments on clay he won

Logan71
12-04-2011, 10:29 AM
Nadal's peak has gone,that is a given.Some are mentioning his comeback from injury in 2010,but Nadal was 2 years younger at the start of the 2010 season.

2 years in tennis is like being 20 years older in normal human years.So his best tennis has been seen and passed.He would struggle to even to match the 7-6 set at the USO this year against Djokovic.

Having said that while his peak has been and gone we can't say for any certainty that his GS form has gone.Federer,Sampras and Agassi all won GS after their peak powers had faded.

Although like a lot of grinders over the years he will probably tail off much quicker than those guys.Muster,Courier,Chang,and Hewitt come to mind not that they were all time greats but when you are a predominantly defensive player then how do you win points later on in life when the wheels have gone?

I reckon he will still win a slam but slams not so sure.Top player he is not done.

beast of mallorca
12-04-2011, 10:46 AM
Yeah Barcelona is so much more important than the WTF

at least Federer won his titles fair and square, he was by far the most in-form player at the end of 2011, Nadal had to avoid Djokovic in all 3 tournaments on clay he won



That slimy Nadal. He should not have beaten who was in front of him. He should have demanded to the International Courts of Justice to let him play Djokovic instead or else not play at all. This is so unfair. This is just a travesty of justice. :shock:

tennis_pro
12-04-2011, 10:54 AM
[/B]

That slimy Nadal. He should not have beaten who was in front of him. He should have demanded to the International Courts of Justice to let him play Djokovic instead or else not play at all. This is so unfair. This is just a travesty of justice. :shock:

in a year you win big titles (including a major) and go 0-6 against your toughest rival, it's fair to say you would lose them all if you faced him

beast of mallorca
12-04-2011, 10:57 AM
in a year you win big titles (including a major) and go 0-6 against your toughest rival, it's fair to say you would lose them all if you faced him

So, what can you do ? Whine and cry all day about it or accept what has happened and move on ?

tennis_pro
12-04-2011, 11:14 AM
So, what can you do ? Whine and cry all day about it or accept what has happened and move on ?

Oh I can never get bored of bashing Nadal. Of course I will continue to cry all day.

stingstang
12-04-2011, 11:30 AM
Lol what a ******** thread.

Murray and 99% of the tour would kill to finish their career with what Nadal achieved this year! 1 slam, DC and 2 slams finals. If it wasn't for Djoker mk2 he would have 12 GS's.

I don't think Djoker is finished yet though, I see 2 slams in 2012

Rjtennis
12-04-2011, 11:39 AM
As much as i dont care for the knicker picker (Rafa), he is not out of the mix to win GS titles on any surface. He made the USO final last year by basically just defending well and that says quite a bit. Now if Rafa starts to lose foot speed because of the toll his game takes on the body, his stock will fall quick. Rafa's game is based 99% on defending so he need to be quick.

Joe Pike
12-04-2011, 11:57 AM
in a year you win big titles (including a major) and go 0-6 against your toughest rival, it's fair to say you would lose them all if you faced him


Nadal went 0-6 against the Joker on clay?
In la-la land or where?

tennis_pro
12-04-2011, 11:59 AM
Nadal went 0-6 against the Joker on clay?
In la-la land or where?

the funny part is that out of the 6 losses against Djokovic the 2 easiest wins for Novak were on clay so can't really see how it would change the pattern

El_Djoker
12-04-2011, 12:13 PM
way to early to be saying this, if he was 28,29 then maybe ...
They guy is 25 - has potentially the best few years ahead of him - and I don't
think Djokovic's injury probs will be gone by Melbourne so clearly puts Nadal
as favourite for that - I hope I'm wrong though !!


Was Del Potro "bad" today or was Nadal just too good ??

purge
12-04-2011, 12:15 PM
who says hes done as a top player? :S

Crisstti
12-04-2011, 12:21 PM
ok, but are u seriously gonna say that delpo wasnt already tenderized by ferrer?

If someone was saying that about Rafa people would be screaming "making excuses".

It was the beginning of the second set and del Potro is just 23, for God's sake.

Yeah Barcelona is so much more important than the WTF

at least Federer won his titles fair and square, he was by far the most in-form player at the end of 2011, Nadal had to avoid Djokovic in all 3 tournaments on clay he won

And Fed avoided Nadal and the other top players in his other two titles. Oh, and Novak and Murray in the WTF.

But of course you knew that.

Crisstti
12-04-2011, 12:22 PM
In any case, Rafa is obviously not done. His tennis level hasn't been the best, but - despite all the mileage talk - he's still young.

Mike Sams
12-04-2011, 01:14 PM
In any case, Rafa is obviously not done. His tennis level hasn't been the best, but - despite all the mileage talk - he's still young.

He's not as fast as he used to be IMO. Even a fraction of speed lost makes all the difference. Similar to a boxer who can't pull the trigger.

Mike Sams
12-04-2011, 01:17 PM
Lol what a ******** thread.

Murray and 99% of the tour would kill to finish their career with what Nadal achieved this year! 1 slam, DC and 2 slams finals. If it wasn't for Djoker mk2 he would have 12 GS's.

I don't think Djoker is finished yet though, I see 2 slams in 2012

If it wasn't for Nadal, Federer would have like 23 Slams. :lol: You see how rivalries work? Somebody younger will always come around to stop you sooner or later.

Crisstti
12-04-2011, 01:21 PM
He's not as fast as he used to be IMO. Even a fraction of speed lost makes all the difference. Similar to a boxer who can't pull the trigger.

I don't think he's actually any slower. I at least haven't seen it. His problems are in other parts of his game, as far as I can tell anyway.

SLD76
12-04-2011, 01:44 PM
I'm don't think he's actually any slower. I at least haven't seen it. His problems are in other parts of his game, as far as I can tell anyway.

I dont know.,..if seen many a ball struck this year that has passed him that would not have a few years ago.

thats why it will be so hard to gauge rafa next year as far as physically. it used to just mean will he be injured, now it includes footspeed as well.

cc0509
12-04-2011, 02:04 PM
I'm don't think he's actually any slower. I at least haven't seen it. His problems are in other parts of his game, as far as I can tell anyway.

He is definitely slower and that is a big part of the problem. His speed and defense are crucial parts of Nadal's game and even if he slows down only slightly that makes a big difference to his results.

Crisstti
12-04-2011, 02:11 PM
I dont know.,..if seen many a ball struck this year that has passed him that would not have a few years ago.

thats why it will be so hard to gauge rafa next year as far as physically. it used to just mean will he be injured, now it includes footspeed as well.

But maybe there's another reason for it?, like the angles in Novak's shots, Rafa's confidence to go for those balls, him playing too far behing the baseline...

Today his movement and speed seemed to be just fine, after the first set. And I remember in some match this year - no idea where - where he went far to get a ball and it seemed doubtful he could get back in time to hit the return, and yet he not only managed to, but he got there with enough time to run around it and hit a forehand... I remember there was a sound of awe from the audience there. The drop shot he got to in the first round of the USO comes to mind too.

cc0509
12-04-2011, 02:19 PM
But maybe there's another reason for it?, like the angles in Novak's shots, Rafa's confidence to go for those balls, him playing too far behing the baseline...

Today his movement and speed seemed to be just fine, after the first set. And I remember in some match this year - no idea where - where he went far to get a ball and it seemed doubtful he could get back in time to hit the return, and yet he not only managed to, but he got there with enough time to run around it and hit a forehand... I remember there was a sound of awe from the audience there. The drop shot he got to in the first round of the USO comes to mind too.

That is because Nadal was only playing Del Potro who is not known for his movement. Put Nadal against Djokovic and you see a decline in footspeed.

Clarky21
12-04-2011, 02:33 PM
Nadal has lost tons of his footspeed in the last few years. It's been really,really bad this year,and he sometimes moves like his legs are full of lead. I can only imagine how much further his speed will deteriorate next year.

Crisstti
12-04-2011, 02:39 PM
That is because Nadal was only playing Del Potro who is not known for his movement. Put Nadal against Djokovic and you see a decline in footspeed.

He plays an aggressive style though, that makes Nadal have to run a lot.

Nadal has lost tons of his footspeed in the last few years. It's been really,really bad this year,and he sometimes moves like his legs are full of lead. I can only imagine how much further his speed will deteriorate next year.

Sorry, not convinced ;)

timnz
12-04-2011, 02:47 PM
With all respect to the Op.... this thread is really off base.

I am a Federer fan. However, I'd be stupid to give Nadal a title anything less than being a great champion. And great Champions, especially someone like Nadal, keep working on things, adapt etc.

He is very far from done. After last weekend - I'd be surprised if he is anything less than hugely motivated.

Think of Connors 1979 through 1981 - no slam finals. Give up? No way - he comes back - wins Wimbledon and the US Open.

OddJack
12-04-2011, 03:40 PM
^^^^^

Where did the op said Nadal does not deserve the title champion?

And when you say "far from done" what do you mean? How many more majors do you think he is going to take?

cc0509
12-04-2011, 04:10 PM
Nadal has lost tons of his footspeed in the last few years. It's been really,really bad this year,and he sometimes moves like his legs are full of lead. I can only imagine how much further his speed will deteriorate next year.

He has definitely lost some footspeed no question about it. Only huge *******s who hate Nadal or extreme *******s who can't face reality won't admit it or accept it. It is a slight loss in footspeed but you can really notice it when he is playing the best players (and no Juan Monaco does not count!)

Even in this video at :37 Pete Sampras states "you can tell physically Nadal's body has started to wear down a little bit." If Sampras detects it I would say it is pretty much a given. Who would know better than him?


http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/tennis/mats-wilander/article/239/

cc0509
12-04-2011, 04:14 PM
He plays an aggressive style though, that makes Nadal have to run a lot.

Del Potro is chopped liver compared to how Djokovic makes Nadal defend. It is when Nadal plays Djokovic that you can really notice Nadal is not as quick as he used to be.

SLD76
12-04-2011, 04:17 PM
He has definitely lost some footspeed no question about it. Only huge *******s who hate Nadal or extreme *******s who can't face reality won't admit it or accept it. It is a slight loss in footspeed but you can really notice it when he is playing the best players (and no Juan Monaco does not count!)

Even in this video at :37 Pete Sampras states "you can tell physically Nadal's body has started to wear down a little bit." If Sampras detects it I would say it is pretty much a given. Who would know better than him?


http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/tennis/mats-wilander/article/239/


when the extreme rafa ***** were saying last year that nadal wasnt as dominant on clay, wasnt as good as 08 yadda yadda , I thought they were crazy.

but this year, I can definitely tell he is not the defender he was 2 years or so ago. It used to be much harder to attack nadal from the fh. even stretched it seemed like he could hit a crazy cross court or that banana shot dtl. This year ive seen people hit outright winners to the fh side.

The fact that delpo did as well as he did before he got gassed is proof to me nadal's game is not where it needs to be. Even against Sod in '10, Sod threw everything but the kitchen sink in the FO final, but rafa got to everything and got everything back DEEP. sod couldnt get a winner for love nor money.

I wonder what '10 sod would have done to this nadal in that final.

The Bawss
12-04-2011, 04:32 PM
I wonder what '10 sod would have done to this nadal in that final.

Hmmm, not sure but with '09 Sod it would be straight sets.

cc0509
12-04-2011, 04:32 PM
when the extreme rafa ***** were saying last year that nadal wasnt as dominant on clay, wasnt as good as 08 yadda yadda , I thought they were crazy.

but this year, I can definitely tell he is not the defender he was 2 years or so ago. It used to be much harder to attack nadal from the fh. even stretched it seemed like he could hit a crazy cross court or that banana shot dtl. This year ive seen people hit outright winners to the fh side.

The fact that delpo did as well as he did before he got gassed is proof to me nadal's game is not where it needs to be. Even against Sod in '10, Sod threw everything but the kitchen sink in the FO final, but rafa got to everything and got everything back DEEP. sod couldnt get a winner for love nor money.

I wonder what '10 sod would have done to this nadal in that final.

Yep, 2010 form Nadal would have demolished this Del Potro in three easy striaghts. I am a Federer fan but I am not blind.

quest01
12-04-2011, 04:38 PM
I think Nadal had a good 2011, if it wasn't for Djokovic, Nadal would have had one of his best years ever. Nadal beat pretty much everyone except Djokovic, he beat Federer pretty bad in Indian Wells and did well against him at the French.

OddJack
12-04-2011, 05:05 PM
If Nadal falls to #3 he will meet Djoker more often, and thats dangerous for his H2H and passion for the game.

vernonbc
12-05-2011, 12:35 AM
I think Nadal had a good 2011, if it wasn't for Djokovic, Nadal would have had one of his best years ever. Nadal beat pretty much everyone except Djokovic, he beat Federer pretty bad in Indian Wells and did well against him at the French.

Djokovic won 70 matches this year. Rafa won 69. Unfortunately for Rafa, 6 of Djoker's 70 wins were against him but bottom line is they both had great years. OP is just trolling.

DjokovicForTheWin
12-05-2011, 06:03 AM
I agree Nadal has not lost any speed yet. Some people know nothing about tennis.

DjokovicForTheWin
12-05-2011, 06:03 AM
Djokovic won 70 matches this year. Rafa won 69. Unfortunately for Rafa, 6 of Djoker's 70 wins were against him but bottom line is they both had great years. OP is just trolling.

Agree with you.

ALL IN
12-05-2011, 06:30 AM
He may stay top 10 the next 2-3 years if he does not stop his career before but he is not anymore the player he once was.

Djokovic really destroyed him, he humiliated him everywhere on everysurface and in every big tournament. Following this, Nadal has lost all his mental and confidence. He does not think anymore he si the best.

Worst, he does not think anymore he can win against Djokovic. And he can't. He won't beat Djokovic except a fluke injury for the next 20 encouters.

Knowing this, his motivation has felt drastically. Now that he know that he can't be the best anymore, he is vulnerable to all players. His play since the USO has been dramatic. And he has been injury free.

Nadal will not win a new slam and people should stop finding excuses and thinking he will suddenly come back. The Nadal we knew is gone.

I wish I had a dollar for every "He's done" thread. They get really annoying. Top players' from varies tremendously throughout the season(s). Remember how many people though Fed was done after the beating Nadal gave him in Miami, only to challenge Nadal on clay at the French in a nail biter and dish back a more severe beating at WTF. All the top players will continue to beat each other, without any of them being "done", for a while.

ALL IN
12-05-2011, 06:34 AM
Nadal has lost tons of his footspeed in the last few years. It's been really,really bad this year,and he sometimes moves like his legs are full of lead. I can only imagine how much further his speed will deteriorate next year.

"....really,really bad.......further....deteriorate........."


Your posts are always so inspirational. :roll:

Crisstti
12-05-2011, 07:16 AM
He has definitely lost some footspeed no question about it. Only huge *******s who hate Nadal or extreme *******s who can't face reality won't admit it or accept it. It is a slight loss in footspeed but you can really notice it when he is playing the best players (and no Juan Monaco does not count!)

Even in this video at :37 Pete Sampras states "you can tell physically Nadal's body has started to wear down a little bit." If Sampras detects it I would say it is pretty much a given. Who would know better than him?


http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/tennis/mats-wilander/article/239/

How typical of you... to make a statement you cannot prove and then insult those who don't agree.

Sampras's opinion is obviously respectable but not exactly proof either.

Del Potro is chopped liver compared to how Djokovic makes Nadal defend. It is when Nadal plays Djokovic that you can really notice Nadal is not as quick as he used to be.

Or maybe Novak is playing better?. Or Rafa is hitting too short?.

OddJack
12-05-2011, 07:24 AM
Nadal has lost tons of his footspeed in the last few years. It's been really,really bad this year,and he sometimes moves like his legs are full of lead. I can only imagine how much further his speed will deteriorate next year.

The idiocy of this statement is so disturbing that one wonders if it's a joke, a troll, an attempt to get a response at any cost or just plain mindless.

TJfederer16
12-05-2011, 07:31 AM
Despite having a pretty good year making a lot of finals and winning a slam, it has obviously been a very tough year mentally for Rafa losing all those big finals to Novak and it has clearly affected him a lot, and his confidence is extremely low atm, but to say he is done is obviously just a stupid assumption and any talk of retirement is ridiculous, yes he seems to be a little lost at the moment, as Boris was saying after the match against Fed he's doing a bit of soul searching and has forgotten really how good he is, which is true, he needs something to spark that fire again and perhaps this Davis Cup final he just won will give him that belief and passion again, its going to be difficult but i still think he can make it back to number 1 again but its going to obviously be very tough if Novak plays anything like he did this year.

Mike Sams
12-05-2011, 07:44 AM
Despite having a pretty good year making a lot of finals and winning a slam, it has obviously been a very tough year mentally for Rafa losing all those big finals to Novak and it has clearly affected him a lot, and his confidence is extremely low atm, but to say he is done is obviously just a stupid assumption and any talk of retirement is ridiculous, yes he seems to be a little lost at the moment, as Boris was saying after the match against Fed he's doing a bit of soul searching and has forgotten really how good he is, which is true, he needs something to spark that fire again and perhaps this Davis Cup final he just won will give him that belief and passion again, its going to be difficult but i still think he can make it back to number 1 again but its going to obviously be very tough if Novak plays anything like he did this year.

Not just Djokovic alone stands in Nadal's way, my friend. For Nadal to win Slams, he has to beat 2 out of the top 4 players, back to back.
Imagine if Federer is dropped into Nadal's side of the draw at Australian Open and Wimbledon.
For Nadal to have to mentally conjure up the will and strength to beat 16-time Slam champ Federer in a best of 5 at the Australian Open is a mad challenge in itself. Perhaps an even bigger challenge than their 5 set war at the AO in 2009.
If Nadal gets through that, and THEN still has to play his biggest rival today in the form of Djokovic who has won the AO twice now and has Nadal's number by the looks of it, it's going to be a very rough time for Nadal to bag Slams.
Wimbledon will be an even greater challenge if he has to go through Federer and Djokovic back to back.

Bartelby
12-05-2011, 07:48 AM
One of the reasons that makes the rankings so convincing is that they enable you to see that the top four are still the top four, so until one of the top four drops out of the top ten solely due to form then i don't think any of them are done as top players.

CDestroyer
12-05-2011, 07:55 AM
If Nadal falls to #3 he will meet Djoker more often, and thats dangerous for his H2H and passion for the game.

Agreed it affects Nadals morale. It must be devastating getting handed breadsticks and bagels from Djokovic.

beast of mallorca
12-05-2011, 09:23 AM
The idiocy of this statement is so disturbing that one wonders if it's a joke, a troll, an attempt to get a response at any cost or just plain mindless.

What's more idiotic is you responded, lol. Funny indeed.

beast of mallorca
12-05-2011, 09:25 AM
Agreed it affects Nadals morale. It must be devastating getting handed breadsticks and bagels from Djokovic.

The same devastation that Federer received from Nadal's. I remember the tears, lol.

OddJack
12-05-2011, 09:34 AM
What's more idiotic is you responded, lol. Funny indeed.

Whats even more idiotic is that you responded to the response. :D

passive_aggressive
12-05-2011, 09:53 AM
Why are you guys making it seem like Nadal beating Federer AND THEN Djokovic is the hardest thing on earth for him?

For a start, he can do a little thing called 'hitting loopy forehands to Fed's backhand constantly' that Federer has absolutely no answer to, and guarantees him (Nadal) the win on all surfaces but the moronically low-bouncing WTF arena.

Then, when he meets Djokovic, he can do a little thing called 'hitting loopy forehands to Djokovic's backhand constantly', that Djokovic used to have no answer for.

In 2012 I suspect Djokovic will once again have no answer for it because Nadal will come back fitter and hitting simply MORE topspin than before, and also Djokovic's back and shoulder will give out anyway.

If Nadal ever meets Del-Potro or Murray, he can also employ a little tactic known as 'hitting loopy forehands to their backhands' - to which they will have no answers for either.

Tennis is a simple game if you play it right, isn't it?

Rozroz
12-05-2011, 09:56 AM
Why are you guys making it seem like Nadal beating Federer AND THEN Djokovic is the hardest thing on earth for him?

For a start, he can do a little thing called 'hitting loopy forehands to Fed's backhand constantly' that Federer has absolutely no answer to, and guarantees him (Nadal) the win on all surfaces but the moronically low-bouncing WTF arena.

Then, when he meets Djokovic, he can do a little thing called 'hitting loopy forehands to Djokovic's backhand constantly', that Djokovic used to have no answer for.

In 2012 I suspect Djokovic will once again have no answer for it because Nadal will come back fitter and hitting simply MORE topspin than before, and also Djokovic's back and shoulder will give out anyway.

If Nadal ever meets Del-Potro or Murray, he can also employ a little tactic known as 'hitting loopy forehands to their backhands' - to which they will have no answers for either.

Tennis is a simple game if you play it right, isn't it?

simple and entertaining :p

beast of mallorca
12-05-2011, 10:09 AM
Whats even more idiotic is that you responded to the response. :D

Nahhhhh. That's too lame. Like an old man's response. Maybe next time,heh.

mattennis
12-05-2011, 01:22 PM
For me, it is apparent that Nadal is not as quick and explosive in his movement as he used to be.

Today there are other players quicker than him (though not many).

But that fact does not necessarily mean that he is done as a tennis player.

If he can get more depth in his shots, consistently, like he does when he is confident, he can still defeat anyone.

But being slower as he is now (compared to how he used to be) he is not going to win many matches (specially on hard courts) against the top players hitting everything short and running like crazy for hours.

Maybe he could still do it in one match, but the next day he will be fried.

Contrary to what many people seem to think around here, I think Nadal has played at quite a high level during this 2011 season (at least till Wimbledon). It is just that those six defeats against Nole have shattered his confidence. And after that, yes, his serve, backhand and even forehand have been quite awful, specially at the end of the season.

Nobody knows what will come. We will see.

SLD76
12-05-2011, 01:30 PM
For me, it is apparent that Nadal is not as quick and explosive in his movement as he used to be.

Today there are other players quicker than him (though not many).

But that fact does not necessarily mean that he is done as a tennis player.

If he can get more depth in his shots, consistently, like he does when he is confident, he can still defeat anyone.

But being slower as he is now (compared to how he used to be) he is not going to win many matches (specially on hard courts) against the top players hitting everything short and running like crazy for hours.

Maybe he could still do it in one match, but the next day he will be fried.

Contrary to what many people seem to think around here, I think Nadal has played at quite a high level during this 2011 season (at least till Wimbledon). It is just that those six defeats against Nole have shattered his confidence. And after that, yes, his serve, backhand and even forehand have been quite awful, specially at the end of the season.

Nobody knows what will come. We will see.


this. 2012 is going to be wide open.

jones101
12-05-2011, 01:32 PM
I cant see Nadal dropping out of the top 4 anytime soon, and I he will be a contender for slams for years to come, so he will obviously still be a top player.

I do think players have more belief against him now which makes a difference, but on clay he will have that aura until he retires imho.

Hitman
12-05-2011, 01:34 PM
Please define top for me.

Because he is still solidly within the top four, who at the moment are head and shoulders above the others. He is far from done, and if Novak falters, he may just be there to pick up the pieces.

SLD76
12-05-2011, 01:38 PM
Again, the main question with Rafa going forward is..if he is losing foot speed and decline, will it be slow and steady like Fed or will he fall off a cliff like Hewitt.

Hewitt started 2005 by making the AO final, by the end of that year he was irrelevant and the game passed him by.

who can say?

so many questions for 2012, Murray's mental strength, Fed's stamina, Djoker's fitness and health, Nadal's confidence and the physical state of his game, possible young upstarts...


2012 will be wide open.

Breaker
12-05-2011, 01:58 PM
Again, the main question with Rafa going forward is..if he is losing foot speed and decline, will it be slow and steady like Fed or will he fall off a cliff like Hewitt.

Hewitt started 2005 by making the AO final, by the end of that year he was irrelevant and the game passed him by.

who can say?

so many questions for 2012, Murray's mental strength, Fed's stamina, Djoker's fitness and health, Nadal's confidence and the physical state of his game, possible young upstarts...


2012 will be wide open.

The game passed Hewitt by in the same year that he made 3 slam semis and was only losing matches to Federer? Hewitt fell off only because of injuries and barely completing a full season since 2004, the game doesn't just 'pass players by' like is often said on here.

Nostradamus
12-05-2011, 02:05 PM
Nadal is still the best player in the world except one guy has found a way to beat him. If Novak gets injured or faulters this year, Nadal will become #1 again.
Roger Federer's time of #1 is over. He is getting old and he should concentrate on winning maybe 1 more wimbledon and that is it.
One other point is that if Nadal can find that 130 mph serve again then he can beat Novak once again but for some reason that serve has left him.

MichaelNadal
12-05-2011, 02:23 PM
The idiocy of this statement is so disturbing that one wonders if it's a joke, a troll, an attempt to get a response at any cost or just plain mindless.

You think Nadal is as fast as he ever was?

OddJack
12-05-2011, 02:57 PM
You think Nadal is as fast as he ever was?

I tell you what I think. Nadal is not at his peak right now and I doubt he can go back to his domination period. I believe it's a combination of mental and physical decline. Just like Rodge, Rafa is past his prime. But that does not mean they cant win big tournaments of course, they both compete in very high level.

I just watched Rafa beat Del Potro the other day and he did not look like " has lost tons of foot speed and really really bad" . How can you be behind the baseline, retrieve almost every ball and come up with a winner if you are slow? Only a fool would believe that. Anyone who watched Monaco would agree that Monaco played a very strong match. Nadal didn't look slow there either.

This is not to say that Nadal's leg speed is exactly the same as 2008, as we dont expect same speed from 30 yo Rodge as 2006. There is simply no way to prove either way. But what's certain is that "tons of speed and really really bad" is a foolish statement made by some kids with boyish enthusiasm. He maybe very slightly slower. He may have pain in his knees(One of his fans provided a Spanish link citing injection to his knees before Monaco match), shoulder problem, blisters in his hands or toes, etc.

We must wait till RG 2012. RG is the best place to judge player's legs. It was there where Rodge lost his 23 SF streak.

And even if he doesnt win it, the statement "tons of footspeed and really really bad" would still look like a idiotic exaggeration, I am sure. If foot speed was the biggest deciding factor to win tournaments I promise you Monfils would've won couple of grand slams by now.

Clarky21
12-05-2011, 03:02 PM
You think Nadal is as fast as he ever was?



He's not,and the only people insisting that he is are either ***** or are trying to make it seem that **** has been beating prime Nadal even though he is obviously past it.

Mike Sams
12-05-2011, 03:09 PM
He's not,and the only people insisting that he is are either ***** or are trying to make it seem that **** has been beating prime Nadal even though he is obviously past it.

Which one was prime Nadal again? Which year?

Mike Sams
12-05-2011, 03:11 PM
Nadal is still the best player in the world except one guy has found a way to beat him. If Novak gets injured or faulters this year, Nadal will become #1 again.
Roger Federer's time of #1 is over. He is getting old and he should concentrate on winning maybe 1 more wimbledon and that is it.
One other point is that if Nadal can find that 130 mph serve again then he can beat Novak once again but for some reason that serve has left him.

Nadal developed shoulder problems from using that serve. That's why he doesn't use it.

timnz
12-05-2011, 03:16 PM
In response to the OP's posting

"Will people finally admit that Nadal is done as a top player?"

The answer is simple. They will admit it when in fact he is done as a top player. As that is far from the case at the moment, then they don't admit it.

Mike Sams
12-05-2011, 03:30 PM
In response to the OP's posting

"Will people finally admit that Nadal is done as a top player?"

The answer is simple. They will admit it when in fact he is done as a top player. As that is far from the case at the moment, then they don't admit it.

Nadal will be done the day he loses Monte Carlo and Roland Garros in the same year. Until then, he's not done.:)

Crisstti
12-05-2011, 03:37 PM
He's not,and the only people insisting that he is are either ***** or are trying to make it seem that **** has been beating prime Nadal even though he is obviously past it.

While I don't think that Rafa has been playing at his best level this year, I just don't think that footspeed is the problem.

cc0509
12-05-2011, 05:35 PM
Djokovic won 70 matches this year. Rafa won 69. Unfortunately for Rafa, 6 of Djoker's 70 wins were against him but bottom line is they both had great years. OP is just trolling.

Nadal did not have a great year for Nadal's standards. When you compare 2011 to 2010 for Nadal, how is his 2011 great? Who cares if Nadal made a certain number of finals in slams, the point is he did not win them aside from the FO. Nobody cares who the slam finalist is, they only care who the winner is.

Mike Sams
12-05-2011, 05:41 PM
Nadal did not have a great year for Nadal's standards. When you compare 2011 to 2010 for Nadal, how is his 2011 great? Who cares if Nadal made a certain number of finals in slams, the point is he did not win them aside from the FO. Nobody cares who the slam finalist is, they only care who the winner is.

Yeah, I've already forgotten who Nadal beat in the Wimbledon 2008 Final to bag his first Wimbledon. Was probably some schmuck.:) Anyway moving on....

SLD76
12-05-2011, 05:41 PM
The game passed Hewitt by in the same year that he made 3 slam semis and was only losing matches to Federer? Hewitt fell off only because of injuries and barely completing a full season since 2004, the game doesn't just 'pass players by' like is often said on here.

I said by the end of 2005, he was irrelevant. what did he do from 2006 onward???

cc0509
12-05-2011, 05:45 PM
How typical of you... to make a statement you cannot prove and then insult those who don't agree.

Sampras's opinion is obviously respectable but not exactly proof either.


Right, we should listen to your opinon over Sampras', genius TW poster that you undoubtedly are. :roll:

Who said anything about proving Nadal has lost footspeed? That is my opinion. You cannot decipher between fact and opinion as you have shown that over and over again by your posts.

I will say it again slowly for those who are not such quick thinkers:

It is my opinion that Nadal has lost some of his footspeed.

Is that more clear for you now? :wink:

Mike Sams
12-05-2011, 05:49 PM
Nadal's 2010 was overrated. Winning 3 Slams is one thing. But winning 2 of those Slams against 2 players who'd never won Grand Slams and hardly had reached many Slam finals in their careers in Soderling and Berdych shows that Nadal was feasting on inferior competition.
The real challengers were in the top 4-5 and none were in form for much of the season. Now that somebody is reaching his mental and physical prime, Nadal is struggling.
Nadal was lucky to have 2010 all to himself without any threats to stop him. Djoker, Del Potro and Murray were invisible and Federer was in the slump of his life.
Now in 2012, all of those players will be ready to go and Nadal has no choice but to go through any 2 of the top 4 to win a tournament. Then stick Del Potro, Tsonga, and Ferrer in there and it could be a tall order for anybody in the top 4.

cc0509
12-05-2011, 05:50 PM
Or maybe Novak is playing better?. Or Rafa is hitting too short?.

Rafa is hitting too short but what does that have to do with his footspeed?
He is exhibiting more than one problem lately if you ask me. He has slowed down a little and many of his shots are not what they used to be. My opinion (just in case you think what I have just said is a fact.)

cc0509
12-05-2011, 05:54 PM
Yeah, I've already forgotten who Nadal beat in the Wimbledon 2008 Final to bag his first Wimbledon. Was probably some schmuck.:) Anyway moving on....

What does that have to do with what I have said. My point is that people only care who wins the slam not who the finalist is. The title went to Nadal.

cc0509
12-05-2011, 05:59 PM
The idiocy of this statement is so disturbing that one wonders if it's a joke, a troll, an attempt to get a response at any cost or just plain mindless.

It is not an idiotic statement. Yes Clarky is exaggerating a little bit by saying Nadal has lost "tons" of footspeed IMO but he definitely appears to have lost a little footspeed IMO.

Crisstti
12-05-2011, 06:16 PM
Right, we should listen to your opinon over Sampras', genius TW poster that you undoubtedly are. :roll:

Who said anything about proving Nadal has lost footspeed? That is my opinion. You cannot decipher between fact and opinion as you have shown that over and over again by your posts.

I will say it again slowly for those who are not such quick thinkers:

It is my opinion that Nadal has lost some of his footspeed.

Is that more clear for you now? :wink:

Like I said, I'm not wasting my time with this again.

Here's a concept for you though: fallacy (hint, your Sampras argument here).

And if you are not trying to state it as a fact, then don't insult people who don't agree with you. It's really not that hard.

Nadal's 2010 was overrated. Winning 3 Slams is one thing. But winning 2 of those Slams against 2 players who'd never won Grand Slams and hardly had reached many Slam finals in their careers in Soderling and Berdych shows that Nadal was feasting on inferior competition.
The real challengers were in the top 4-5 and none were in form for much of the season. Now that somebody is reaching his mental and physical prime, Nadal is struggling.
Nadal was lucky to have 2010 all to himself without any threats to stop him. Djoker, Del Potro and Murray were invisible and Federer was in the slump of his life.
Now in 2012, all of those players will be ready to go and Nadal has no choice but to go through any 2 of the top 4 to win a tournament. Then stick Del Potro, Tsonga, and Ferrer in there and it could be a tall order for anybody in the top 4.

Sure, just like Fed didn't have many threats to stop him for most of his top years...

Rafa is hitting too short but what does that have to do with his footspeed?
He is exhibiting more than one problem lately if you ask me. He has slowed down a little and many of his shots are not what they used to be. My opinion (just in case you think what I have just said is a fact.)

He hits short, a winner comes more often, from closer to the net, so he's naturally going to have more problems answering that, which might make it seem like he's slower.

Mainad
12-05-2011, 06:57 PM
Nadal was lucky to have 2010 all to himself without any threats to stop him. Djoker, Del Potro and Murray were invisible and Federer was in the slump of his life.

Murray and Federer were both patchy in 2010 but not exactly invisible. Murray beat Nadal in the quarters of the AO that year and beat him and Federer back to back in Toronto. He also won Shanghai, beating Federer in the final and narrowly lost out to Nadal in a close-fought semi at the WTF. Federer won the AO that year and did slump for a bit afterwards but made the finals of two Masters (Toronto and Shanghai) and won a third (Cincinnati). He narrowly lost the semi-final of the USO to Djokovic (just like this year) and went on to beat Nadal in the final of the WTF. Djokovic was probably the most sub-par in 2010 but he did come good for the USO where he met Nadal in the final and took a set off him.

Del Potro was, of course, absent from most of 2010 with injury.

cc0509
12-05-2011, 07:02 PM
Crisstti;6160649]Like I said, I'm not wasting my time with this again.

Here's a concept for you though: fallacy (hint, your Sampras argument here).

And if you are not trying to state it as a fact, then don't insult people who don't agree with you. It's really not that hard.

You are not wasting your time with it because you have no intelligent argument. Obviously I am not stating facts just my own opinions. I am not insulting anybody. I just said it is the extreme *******s who hate Nadal or the extreme *******s who refuse to see anything remotely negative about Nadal who may fail to see things clearly. Hint: again this is my opinion. People on tennis boards often state their opinions. Novel concept isn't it? :rolleyes:



He hits short, a winner comes more often, from closer to the net, so he's naturally going to have more problems answering that, which might make it seem like he's slower.

Don't even understand the validity of your comment here. My opinion is that he is moving slightly slower. That is just one problem he is having but there are others. You may think differently.

Magnus
12-05-2011, 10:01 PM
Nadal still has his RG trophy, if he loses that next year(and doesn't compensate by winning a different slam) that it may be time to start predicting doom and gloom, too early for that now.

Nadal still loses only to Djokovic in most slams, and still makes GS finals on regular occasions. Losing to only one player means you are still very much in the title picture.

Mike Sams
12-05-2011, 10:17 PM
Nadal still loses only to Djokovic in most slams, and still makes GS finals on regular occasions. Losing to only one player means you are still very much in the title picture.

True, Nadal will be in the title picture as his ranking suggests. But it doesn't get any easier as time goes on. He's almost 26. The next generation of talent is rising.

jokinla
12-05-2011, 10:27 PM
Nadal's 2010 was overrated. Winning 3 Slams is one thing. But winning 2 of those Slams against 2 players who'd never won Grand Slams and hardly had reached many Slam finals in their careers in Soderling and Berdych shows that Nadal was feasting on inferior competition.
The real challengers were in the top 4-5 and none were in form for much of the season. Now that somebody is reaching his mental and physical prime, Nadal is struggling.
Nadal was lucky to have 2010 all to himself without any threats to stop him. Djoker, Del Potro and Murray were invisible and Federer was in the slump of his life.
Now in 2012, all of those players will be ready to go and Nadal has no choice but to go through any 2 of the top 4 to win a tournament. Then stick Del Potro, Tsonga, and Ferrer in there and it could be a tall order for anybody in the top 4.

Yeah, he was overrated in 2010, yet he did something that nobody has done since Laver.

Mike Sams
12-05-2011, 10:29 PM
Yeah, he was overrated in 2010, yet he did something that nobody has done since Laver.

His achievements were fine. In the context of the competition around him, I feel in that regard his season was overrated as 2011 has proven.

Sentinel
12-05-2011, 11:11 PM
How do you define "top player" ?

Is being in top 3 or five for some years good enough.

Winning a slam in last 12 months ?

Crisstti
12-06-2011, 05:52 PM
You are not wasting your time with it because you have no intelligent argument. Obviously I am not stating facts just my own opinions. I am not insulting anybody. I just said it is the extreme *******s who hate Nadal or the extreme *******s who refuse to see anything remotely negative about Nadal who may fail to see things clearly. Hint: again this is my opinion. People on tennis boards often state their opinions. Novel concept isn't it? :rolleyes:

Sure, because calling people who disagree with you "extreme *******s or extreme *******s" isn't rude at all, right? :rolleyes:

Don't even understand the validity of your comment here. My opinion is that he is moving slightly slower. That is just one problem he is having but there are others. You may think differently.

Of course you don't...

cc0509
12-06-2011, 08:12 PM
Sure, because calling people who disagree with you "extreme *******s or extreme *******s" isn't rude at all, right? :rolleyes:


How is it rude to call somebody an extreme ******* or *******? That kind of thing is common vernacular on a tennis board.

OddJack
12-06-2011, 08:21 PM
Sure, because calling people who disagree with you "extreme *******s or extreme *******s" isn't rude at all, right? :rolleyes:



Of course you don't...

I hate the "-*****" words, never use them myself and I agree that it's rude.
And whether it's frequently used or not doesnt make it any less rude either.

jokinla
12-06-2011, 09:26 PM
His achievements were fine. In the context of the competition around him, I feel in that regard his season was overrated as 2011 has proven.

2011 proved that in order to take Nadal down, one guy had to step up in a way that again has only been done a few times, ever, and if not for that one guy, then Nadal repeats his 2010 or betters it, and suddenly he is inching closer and closer to Fed, but 11 certainly didn't prove that Nadal was overrated.

Mike Sams
12-06-2011, 09:43 PM
2011 proved that in order to take Nadal down, one guy had to step up in a way that again has only been done a few times, ever, and if not for that one guy, then Nadal repeats his 2010 or betters it, and suddenly he is inching closer and closer to Fed, but 11 certainly didn't prove that Nadal was overrated.

Well you obviously have noticed that in sports, a new rival always emerges sooner or later. If not for Nadal, Federer might be at 20+ Slams. If not for Djokovic, Nadal might be at 12 Slams. Heck for all we know, if not for Federer, Djokovic might be at 6-7 Slams and possibly a CYGC with it. It's possible Nadal would be slamless this year if Federer didn't take down Djokovic at Roland Garros. Nadal may still be at 9.

jokinla
12-06-2011, 10:20 PM
Well you obviously have noticed that in sports, a new rival always emerges sooner or later. If not for Nadal, Federer might be at 20+ Slams. If not for Djokovic, Nadal might be at 12 Slams. Heck for all we know, if not for Federer, Djokovic might be at 6-7 Slams and possibly a CYGC with it. It's possible Nadal would be slamless this year if Federer didn't take down Djokovic at Roland Garros. Nadal may still be at 9.

And how does this prove he was overrated?

NadalAgassi
12-06-2011, 10:32 PM
His achievements were fine. In the context of the competition around him, I feel in that regard his season was overrated as 2011 has proven.

Yeah like Federer (Roddick and Hewitt as his main rivals) or Djokovic (a declining Nadal and 30 year old Federer as his main rivals) had super tough competition in their dominant years either. Please.

TMF
12-06-2011, 10:34 PM
Nadal is underrated this year, mainly b/c many of his fans keep saying he's decline immensely. Just b/c he lost to one guy(Nole) they declared Nadal is old, forgot how to hit his bh and fh. He played too defensive, his shots are landing too short, have no confidence, no plan B, blah blah blah.

Tony48
12-06-2011, 10:51 PM
Done as a top player? Unless top player = No. 1 player, then this is incredibly irrational.

Darko
12-07-2011, 12:06 AM
The guys is #2 in the world. Won a slam this year, and took his country to a Davis Cup win.

If thats what it means to be done as a top player, sign me up! I'll take the job.

Mike Sams
12-07-2011, 12:44 AM
And how does this prove he was overrated?

I said Nadal's 2010 was overrated. Overrated in that he had no rivals anywhere from clay season all the way up to the USO. Federer was in garbage form, fighting for his life in the 1st round of Wimbledon :lol: and losing to the likes of Hewitt and Montanes:confused:
Djokovic couldn't even beat a top 10 player for about 9 months, Murray was at his wits end after another failed finals run at the AO and had zero confidence, there was no Del Potro, basically 2010 was Nadal's time to grab everything he could while the going was good. I mean come on...Berdych in a Wimbledon final??? :lol: Youzhny in a USO semifinal??? :lol: What a joke!

ViscaB
12-07-2011, 01:16 AM
I said Nadal's 2010 was overrated. Overrated in that he had no rivals anywhere from clay season all the way up to the USO. Federer was in garbage form, fighting for his life in the 1st round of Wimbledon :lol: and losing to the likes of Hewitt and Montanes:confused:
Djokovic couldn't even beat a top 10 player for about 9 months, Murray was at his wits end after another failed finals run at the AO and had zero confidence, there was no Del Potro, basically 2010 was Nadal's time to grab everything he could while the going was good. I mean come on...Berdych in a Wimbledon final??? Youzhny in a USO semifinal??? :lol: What a joke!

And if it wasn't for Djokovic he would have done it again... A player who had one of the best season's in the history of the game... All the other players you mention (Fed, Murray) are irrelevant in Nadal's season since he would have beaten them on any surface outdoors. What's your point? Nadal is the no.2 payer in the world which is a fair reflection of this season.

As it stands now Nadal is one of the best no.2's in tennis history;).

passive_aggressive
12-07-2011, 02:24 AM
Nadal would have won 3 GS this year if not for a single guy. He would have at least progressed to the finals of the AO if not for the hamstring. Who knows, if he had beaten Djokovic at the 2011 AO, if might have boosted his confidence and he would have beaten Djokovic at all the finals in 2011.

Now that that guy is having shoulder issues, I reckon Nadal will quite easily win all 4 slams plus the Olympics next year. On clay, grass and outdoor hard he is untouchable.

Apart from Djokovic, Nadal doesn't have to worry about any other tennis player - they're simply not even a factor.

aphex
12-07-2011, 02:27 AM
Nadal would have won 3 GS this year if not for a single guy. He would have at least progressed to the finals of the AO if not for the hamstring. Who knows, if he had beaten Djokovic at the 2011 AO, if might have boosted his confidence and he would have beaten Djokovic at all the finals in 2011.

Now that that guy is having shoulder issues, I reckon Nadal will quite easily win all 4 slams plus the Olympics next year. On clay, grass and outdoor hard he is untouchable.

Apart from Djokovic, Nadal doesn't have to worry about any other tennis player - they're simply not even a factor.

Except Ivan Dodig.

Nbhasin7
12-07-2011, 04:55 AM
This is extremely stupid...One "bad" year and he's done? Maybe when he goes slamless

Fate Archer
12-07-2011, 05:22 AM
Why is this thread is still going? :confused:

Anyway, here's a genius quote that should fit quite with this thread:

THE TAUROS MAJORCAUS (or Majorcan bull) was a handsome bull sent forth from the sea by Poseidon. The Majorcan Queen Xisca lusted after the animal and coupled with it, hidden inside a wooden cow crafted by the artificer Uncle Toni. She gave birth to the monstrous Minotauros, a creature with the head of a bull.

Herakles was commanded to fetch the bull as one of his Twelve Labours. Upon completion of this task Herakles set the bull free and it eventually came to the Swiss town of Basel where it laid waste to the countryside. There it was destroyed by the hero Federer as a sacrifice to the Goddess Mirka. The gods placed the bull among the stars as the Constellation Taurus, along with the Hydra, Nemean Lion and various Grand Slam trophies.

zcarzach
12-07-2011, 05:54 AM
Nadal is not done as a top player. Federer is not done as a top player. Neither will be done as a top player until they retire or experience a career-altering injury or change in mental state.

Crisstti
12-07-2011, 07:16 AM
I hate the "-*****" words, never use them myself and I agree that it's rude.
And whether it's frequently used or not doesnt make it any less rude either.

Yep. I never use them either. And for someone to claim they're just stating their opinion and not insulting anyone, while calling everyone who disagree with them "*****" who are not seeing things clearly... well, it's laughable really.

Nadal is not done as a top player. Federer is not done as a top player. Neither will be done as a top player until they retire or experience a career-altering injury or change in mental state.

This.

celoft
12-07-2011, 07:44 AM
IMO, he's done winning titles outside of clay.

jokinla
12-07-2011, 07:47 AM
I said Nadal's 2010 was overrated. Overrated in that he had no rivals anywhere from clay season all the way up to the USO. Federer was in garbage form, fighting for his life in the 1st round of Wimbledon :lol: and losing to the likes of Hewitt and Montanes:confused:
Djokovic couldn't even beat a top 10 player for about 9 months, Murray was at his wits end after another failed finals run at the AO and had zero confidence, there was no Del Potro, basically 2010 was Nadal's time to grab everything he could while the going was good. I mean come on...Berdych in a Wimbledon final??? :lol: Youzhny in a USO semifinal??? :lol: What a joke!

You said 2011 has proven he was overrated. I see no proof or evidence what so ever. You can always find excuses, but say what you want, he was able to do something that nobody, not Fed, Sampras, Agassi, Borg, McEnroe, Connors, nobody since Laver has done. To say that this player was overrated after such an accomplishment is hilarious.

TMF
12-07-2011, 08:36 AM
And if it wasn't for Djokovic he would have done it again... A player who had one of the best season's in the history of the game... All the other players you mention (Fed, Murray) are irrelevant in Nadal's season since he would have beaten them on any surface outdoors. What's your point? Nadal is the no.2 payer in the world which is a fair reflection of this season.

As it stands now Nadal is one of the best no.2's in tennis history;).

No. He had a better year in 2005.

CDestroyer
12-07-2011, 09:05 AM
IMO, he's done winning titles outside of clay.

Thats what i think to. Now he may win a few titles here and there but for the most part just clay wins for doodo fingers.

beast of mallorca
12-07-2011, 09:09 AM
Thats what i think to. Now he may win a few titles here and there but for the most part just clay wins for doodo fingers.

Your opinions don't really matter. Everyday, wishful thinking. Pathetic indeed:twisted:

One scissor kick for you and a fist pump on the side.
And as Rafa would say ...........vamos !

OddJack
12-07-2011, 09:36 AM
Your opinions don't really matter. Everyday, wishful thinking. Pathetic indeed:twisted:

One scissor kick for you and a fist pump on the side.
And as Rafa would say ...........vamos !

Cant get any more childish than this,

You should be either in school or watching cartoons.There is no shortcut to growing up, so just take it easy and take your time little beast.

NadalAgassi
12-07-2011, 09:37 AM
No. He had a better year in 2005.

Yes making the finals of 3 slams is far better than losing 4th round, 3rd round, and 2nd round in 3 of your 4 slams. Brilliant TMF logic as usual. :rolleyes:

Cup8489
12-07-2011, 09:40 AM
Your opinions don't really matter. Everyday, wishful thinking. Pathetic indeed:twisted:

One scissor kick for you and a fist pump on the side.
And as Rafa would say ...........vamos !

If his opinions dont matter, then why should yours?

TMF
12-07-2011, 10:02 AM
Yes making the finals of 3 slams is far better than losing 4th round, 3rd round, and 2nd round in 3 of your 4 slams. Brilliant TMF logic as usual. :rolleyes:

11 total titles including RG and 4 MS. Far more accomplished than this year.

Magnetite
12-07-2011, 02:26 PM
Top 10 IS a TOP PLAYER. Especially if they've won 10 slams. A few weeks of flashback brilliance and there we go, another FO and Wimbledon back to back from Nadal.

I'm not saying it will happen, and I'm not even a big Nadal fun, but saying he's done as a top player is nonsense (unless he retires).

NN-1
12-07-2011, 03:13 PM
Nadal would have won 3 GS this year if not for a single guy.

I respectfully disagree with this comment. I don't think Nadal could have beaten Fed at the US Open either.

passive_aggressive
12-08-2011, 12:18 AM
Nadal will make every GS final in 2012. That is the easy part.

Whether or not he will beat Djokovic (who will also make every GS final in 2012) is harder to predict.

Fate Archer
12-08-2011, 01:46 AM
Nadal will make every GS final in 2012. That is the easy part.

Whether or not he will beat Djokovic (who will also make every GS final in 2012) is harder to predict.

Sure... let us know when Rafito finally makes it past the quarters of the Aussie. It's been almost 3 years since he last did that.

Heracles
01-06-2012, 08:09 AM
He is doing even worse than I thought he would do.

Sentinel
01-06-2012, 08:32 AM
Your opinions don't really matter. Everyday, wishful thinking. Pathetic indeed:twisted:

One scissor kick for you and a fist pump on the side.
And as Rafa would say ...........vamos !
Come come, where's your sense of humor gone, dude !



Nadal will not win a new slam and people should stop finding excuses and thinking he will suddenly come back. The Nadal we knew is gone.

Wow, to be so sure for someone who won a slam a few months back. Sure he will, but won't be easy with Joker around. At least one a year.

jackson vile
01-06-2012, 08:39 AM
When did his decline start to take place?

DRII
01-06-2012, 08:41 AM
He may stay top 10 the next 2-3 years if he does not stop his career before but he is not anymore the player he once was.

Djokovic really destroyed him, he humiliated him everywhere on everysurface and in every big tournament. Following this, Nadal has lost all his mental and confidence. He does not think anymore he si the best.

Worst, he does not think anymore he can win against Djokovic. And he can't. He won't beat Djokovic except a fluke injury for the next 20 encouters.

Knowing this, his motivation has felt drastically. Now that he know that he can't be the best anymore, he is vulnerable to all players. His play since the USO has been dramatic. And he has been injury free.

Nadal will not win a new slam and people should stop finding excuses and thinking he will suddenly come back. The Nadal we knew is gone.

Same could have been said after 2009; and look what happened!

Not a history (even recent history) scholar are you?

TMF
01-06-2012, 08:54 AM
Nadal is very special...he can choose to be in his prime in any year he wants to, and be healthy or injure any time he pleases.

The question is will Nadal decide to be in his prime in 2012, or wait until 2013 ? That's remain to be seen.

tennis_pro
01-06-2012, 09:46 AM
Yes making the finals of 3 slams is far better than losing 4th round, 3rd round, and 2nd round in 3 of your 4 slams. Brilliant TMF logic as usual. :rolleyes:

11 total titles including RG and 4 MS. Far more accomplished than this year.

I agree with TMF, nobody will look at the number of (major) finals Nadal reached in 2011, he won 3 titles total - 1 major, 1 ATP 100 and 1 ATP 500. In 2005 he won 11 titles including 1 major, 4 ATP 1000 and a couple of smaller events.

Doesn't change the fact that overall Nadal played better in 2011 than he did in 2005 (out of clay)

namelessone
01-06-2012, 09:48 AM
Well that's it, Rafa lost to Monfils in Doha. Done as a top player for sure. :)

OddJack
01-06-2012, 10:09 AM
the question is...did he tank or did he lose?

I did not watch the match so I cant tell, but I can tell tanking makes sense and I dont blame him. Who wants to play Monfils and Tsonga for a 250 dooha

zcarzach
01-06-2012, 10:11 AM
He seemed to be trying very hard against Monfils, but it looked like he hit an abnormally high number of unforced errors.

OddJack
01-06-2012, 10:22 AM
He seemed to be trying very hard against Monfils, but it looked like he hit an abnormally high number of unforced errors.

was there many long rallies? That's what you get with Monfils, her runs everything down and sometimes at the end he comes up with a winner you dont expect to see.

rafan
01-06-2012, 10:22 AM
Its really hard sometimes to know if Nadal is tanking. He has never won this tournament so maybe he was. However he did put up a fight. I really hope this is not the Nadal of 2012 however. Does anyone know which shoulder is the problem?

Tcbtennis
01-06-2012, 10:25 AM
the question is...did he tank or did he lose?

I did not watch the match so I cant tell, but I can tell tanking makes sense and I dont blame him. Who wants to play Monfils and Tsonga for a 250 dooha

I only saw the second set and Nadal was up 3-0 in that set because Nadal was the aggressor and played at the baseline and dictated play with his forehand. Monfils played his usual 10 feet behind the baseline retriever style tennis. . According to the commentators this was not how Monfils played the first set, which he won 6-3. Then Monfils became aggressive and stood at the baseline hitting deep hard shots, came to the net, and threw in some of his circus shots for good measure. Monfils played really well and Nadal looked like he was trying to stand toe-to-toe with him but couldn't do it.

TMF
01-06-2012, 10:26 AM
the question is...did he tank or did he lose?

I did not watch the match so I cant tell, but I can tell tanking makes sense and I dont blame him. Who wants to play Monfils and Tsonga for a 250 dooha

I saw the match and it doesn't look like he's tanking at all.

Mike Sams
01-06-2012, 10:36 AM
Amazing how Federer and Nadal can look so good on a previous day and then are struggling so much the next day. Federer/Davydenko was an elite performance and then he barely gets through Seppi and now pulls out with a back issue.
Nadal looks good in Doha for the past few days, hitting big shots, and now...

OddJack
01-06-2012, 10:48 AM
I predicted he will lose(tank) to Monfils...after having his "duh" moment receiving Rodge news.

Rodge has no serious back injury, I won believe it. Neither has Nadal any shoulder problems. It's foolish to play Monfils, Tsonga, to win a meaningless tournament right before AO. Previous years the draw was easier so it would make sense, and they are both older now.

Tank it was, for both. IMO

CMM
01-06-2012, 10:51 AM
I saw the match and it doesn't look like he's tanking at all. And if there was a motive, why didn't he choose to lose in 2 sets instead of 3 to save his energy. Especially blowing a big lead in the 3rd set that doesn't look good.

You must have seen a different match because Monfils won in straight sets.

jackson vile
01-06-2012, 11:14 AM
I predicted he will lose(tank) to Monfils...after having his "duh" moment receiving Rodge news.

Rodge has no serious back injury, I won believe it. Neither has Nadal any shoulder problems. It's foolish to play Monfils, Tsonga, to win a meaningless tournament right before AO. Previous years the draw was easier so it would make sense, and they are both older now.

Tank it was, for both. IMO

Why would they do that, it is not like the tennis season is too long, or they are required to play too many tournaments. If that is the case then surely they should never need to tank?

OddJack
01-06-2012, 12:39 PM
Why would they do that, it is not like the tennis season is too long, or they are required to play too many tournaments. If that is the case then surely they should never need to tank?

:???::???::???:

DeShaun
01-06-2012, 03:38 PM
As much as i dont care for the knicker picker (Rafa), he is not out of the mix to win GS titles on any surface. He made the USO final last year by basically just defending well and that says quite a bit. Now if Rafa starts to lose foot speed because of the toll his game takes on the body, his stock will fall quick. Rafa's game is based 99% on defending so he need to be quick.

It seems his footspeed has fallen already; he seems now to be choosing his spots more, when to redline his game, and when to play the point as gingerly as his opponent will allow. He has not been retrieving every last ball on every last point as regularly as before. Why? Footspeed.

marcub
01-06-2012, 04:23 PM
the question is...did he tank or did he lose?

I did not watch the match so I cant tell, but I can tell tanking makes sense and I dont blame him. Who wants to play Monfils and Tsonga for a 250 dooha

Come on now.

You mean to say he chickened out from a good practice with a real player?
Is that how mentally fragile he's become?

Physically, other than he looks fat, the rest is ********, like it always is from his camp.

Clarky21
01-06-2012, 04:35 PM
Come on now.

You mean to say he chickened out from a good practice with a real player?
Is that how mentally fragile he's become?

Physically, other than he looks fat, the rest is ********, like it always is from his camp.



Nadal is not fat. I think he is out of shape with his cardio,but fat he is not.

marcub
01-06-2012, 04:44 PM
Nadal is not fat. I think he is out of shape with his cardio,but fat he is not.

At that level, out of shape is just that - a euphemism for fat.

TTMR
01-06-2012, 04:50 PM
Will people finally admit that (sadistic) wishes aren't facts?

SLD76
01-06-2012, 04:50 PM
It seems his footspeed has fallen already; he seems now to be choosing his spots more, when to redline his game, and when to play the point as gingerly as his opponent will allow. He has not been retrieving every last ball on every last point as regularly as before. Why? Footspeed.

I think it is this.

celoft
01-06-2012, 05:01 PM
If Nads wins a slam this year, he will need a lot of luck. Same goes for Feds.

TTMR
01-06-2012, 05:13 PM
If Nads wins a slam this year, he will need a lot of luck. Same goes for Feds.

So it is more likely for Djokovic to win a calendar year grand slam (six majors in a row in this case), or Djokovic + X to win all the slams than for Nadal or Federer to win one?

Clarky21
01-06-2012, 05:41 PM
So it is more likely for Djokovic to win a calendar year grand slam (six majors in a row in this case), or Djokovic + X to win all the slams than for Nadal or Federer to win one?


At this point,yes.

cc0509
01-06-2012, 05:44 PM
If Nads wins a slam this year, he will need a lot of luck. Same goes for Feds.

I disagree. I think Nadal will still win the FO this year.

Clarky21
01-06-2012, 05:46 PM
I disagree. I think Nadal will still win the FO this year.


Based on what I have seen I really doubt that happens. Norman pretty much has a lock on that slam unless he gets beamed up by Martians or something.

cc0509
01-06-2012, 05:50 PM
Based on what I have seen I really doubt that happens. Norman pretty much has a lock on that slam unless he gets beamed up by Martians or something.

What is this new name for Djokovic? Norman? Why do you now call Djokovic Norman?

I don't know Clarky, it is still too early for either of us to make accurate predictions about the 2012 FO but right now I just have a feeling Nadal will take that one. We will see what happens in the next few months and especially at the start of the clay season. I may change my mind then who knows.

Clarky21
01-06-2012, 05:54 PM
What is this new name for Djokovic? Norman? Why do you now call Djokovic Norman?

I don't know Clarky, it is still too early for either of us to make accurate predictions about the 2012 FO but right now I just have a feeling Nadal will take that one. We will see what happens in the next few months and especially at the start of the clay season. I may change my mind then who knows.


I have several different nicknames I use for ****. I think he resembles Norman Bates from Psycho so that's why I have been calling him Norman.

celoft
01-06-2012, 06:03 PM
I disagree. I think Nadal will still win the FO this year.

He has to avoid Djokovic.

FO will be Nadal's best chance to win a slam not just because of his history there but because Djokovic has never made the final.

Djokovic always finds a way to lose to someone there. He might be good on clay but he is not as good at RG.

If Djokovic reaches the final, Nadal is screwed.




I have several different nicknames I use for ****. I think he resembles Norman Bates from Psycho so that's why I have been calling him Norman.


LOL.

cc0509
01-06-2012, 06:05 PM
He has to avoid Djokovic.
I am not so certain of even that right now. I think Djokovic will be the favorite at the other slams easily but for the FO I still give the edge to Nadal as of right this minute. I obviously need to wait to see what happens in the clay season. Nadal wants that 7th FO badly to beat Borg's record and I think that will give him the edge, but we shall see.

tata
01-06-2012, 06:12 PM
Relax. He's got more fight left in him than you think. So the guy has gone through some patchy times lately. Just wait for something to happen and things will turn around quicker than you think.

Netspirit
01-06-2012, 06:13 PM
Nadal could be Djokovic's puppet and all, but you must be mentally challenged not to bet on Nadal at the FO.

celoft
01-06-2012, 06:16 PM
I am not so certain of even that right now. I think Djokovic will be the favorite at the other slams easily but for the FO I still give the edge to Nadal as of right this minute. I obviously need to wait to see what happens in the clay season. Nadal wants that 7th FO badly to beat Borg's record and I think that will give him the edge, but we shall see.

I give the edge to Nadal but because it is not a foregone conclusion that Djokovic will reach the final.

While Nadal has a streak of 7 years in a row winning at least a slam.

Borg's, Sampras' and Federer's streaks ended after 8 years in a row winning at least a slam. Weird, all of them after 8 years. Maybe Nadal's streak will end after the 8 years as well.

2012 could be his last year winning a slam.


So it is more likely for Djokovic to win a calendar year grand slam (six majors in a row in this case), or Djokovic + X to win all the slams than for Nadal or Federer to win one?

No way Djokovic wins the CYGS. I think Del Potro and/or Murray could win a slam this year.

Clarky21
01-06-2012, 06:25 PM
Relax. He's got more fight left in him than you think. So the guy has gone through some patchy times lately. Just wait for something to happen and things will turn around quicker than you think.


If he has any fight left in him I have yet to see it. Nadal capitulates when the going gets tough anymore. He does not have the same fire or tenacity as he used to at all.

Tammo
01-06-2012, 06:30 PM
If he has any fight left in him I have yet to see it. Nadal capitulates when the going gets tough anymore. He does not have the same fire or tenacity as he used to at all.

I think he still has it left, but just wants several practice matches before the AO. Probably realized that with Fed possibly injured he has a good chance at the title in Australia.

tata
01-06-2012, 06:40 PM
I think he still has it left, but just wants several practice matches before the AO. Probably realized that with Fed possibly injured he has a good chance at the title in Australia.

The guy still has the rest of the season to go. This was almost Fed in 08 and people started asking the question. I'm sure the clay season will do him well.

cc0509
01-06-2012, 06:41 PM
I have several different nicknames I use for ****. I think he resembles Norman Bates from Psycho so that's why I have been calling him Norman.

You mean because of the picture of Djokovic in the blonde wig when he was imitating Sharapova? Too funny.

NadalAgassi
01-06-2012, 06:44 PM
I disagree. I think Nadal will still win the FO this year.

I think he has a good shot at both the French and Wimbledon. I would be surprised if he wins a hard court slam though.

cc0509
01-06-2012, 06:44 PM
I give the edge to Nadal but because it is not a foregone conclusion that Djokovic will reach the final.

While Nadal has a streak of 7 years in a row winning at least a slam.

Borg's, Sampras' and Federer's streaks ended after 8 years in a row winning at least a slam. Weird, all of them after 8 years. Maybe Nadal's streak will end after the 8 years as well.

2012 could be his last year winning a slam.

That is what I am saying, I think Nadal will fight like the dickens to capture that 7th FO title as the clock is ticking for him.

Clarky21
01-06-2012, 07:17 PM
You mean because of the picture of Djokovic in the blonde wig when he was imitating Sharapova? Too funny.


Yep. Lol. :)

Sentinel
01-06-2012, 07:25 PM
I think Rafa will still continue to win a slam or 2 for a few years. However, his ranking might slip if he plays fewer non-slams events.

(100% sarcasm free post, dedicated to clarky21)

MeggieTennisGal
01-06-2012, 07:34 PM
I think Nadal will be in the top five for another couple of years and may win a couple more slams. It's often been said that his playing style makes him prone to injury. Certainly he's been struggling with injuries over the past few years, and he's made it a goal to play "with manageable pain" in his knees. He's probably at least as close to the end of his career as Federer. I think they both have a slam or two left in them (although Delpo, Djokovic, and maybe Tomic will probably have something to say about that.)

sbengte
01-06-2012, 09:05 PM
I disagree. I think Nadal will still win the FO this year.

Just this year ? I thought he will keep winning it forever. Or the next ten years at least.

monfed
01-06-2012, 10:14 PM
If Nadal is done, why doesn't he just quit and save us from his boring brand of tennis ala moonballing? No, really.

Clarky21
01-06-2012, 10:31 PM
If Nadal is done, why doesn't he just quit and save us from his boring brand of tennis ala moonballing? No, really.


Maybe he should quit to save his legacy since he has been playing defensive mug tennis for an entire year now with no hope in sight.

devila
01-06-2012, 10:47 PM
if nadal stops playing, roddick will hit djoker's leg to help federer win every french open. that would be at least 6 more for fedthief.

monfed
01-07-2012, 03:25 AM
if nadal stops playing, roddick will hit djoker's leg to help federer win every french open. that would be at least 6 more for fedthief.

LOL that's a new one. Fedthief :lol:

jackson vile
01-12-2012, 07:30 AM
So, does majority still rule here, or just when it suits the agenda?

DjokovicForTheWin
01-12-2012, 08:30 AM
So, does majority still rule here, or just when it suits the agenda?

Wait a second I thought you were just for a poll in which Federer beat Nadal. But now it's all about agenda? Whose, yours or the ****s? :)

Sentinel
01-12-2012, 08:41 AM
Just this year ? I thought he will keep winning it forever. Or the next ten years at least.
Even if he retires from tennis, he can still get a WC each year, or come through the Q's and win the FO for at least 10 years or so. The French would be only to pleased to bend the rules to give him entry.

jackson vile
01-12-2012, 10:12 AM
Wait a second I thought you were just for a poll in which Federer beat Nadal. But now it's all about agenda? Whose, yours or the ****s? :)

Looks like the ****s will actually have to pick one this time doesn't it?

DjokovicForTheWin
01-12-2012, 10:21 AM
Looks like the ****s will actually have to pick one this time doesn't it?

Again avoiding the question, LOL. You're funny, and I don't mean in the haha way ;)

merlinpinpin
01-12-2012, 10:25 AM
Even if he retires from tennis, he can still get a WC each year, or come through the Q's and win the FO for at least 10 years or so. The French would be only to pleased to bend the rules to give him entry.

Maybe he should drive forward a new proposal that says a slam champion only has to defend his title once every 10 years (this would count as 10 GS won, of course). But only on clay, so as to give everyone their chances. And starting, say, in 2011.

That would be fair enough, I think, and it would go well with the change in rankings, etc.

merlinpinpin
01-12-2012, 10:25 AM
Looks like the ****s will actually have to pick one this time doesn't it?

Funny, I thought it was Nadal and his fans doing all the picking... ;)

jackson vile
02-25-2012, 08:55 AM
Many Federer fans believe that Nadal will be dropping below #2 and Federer will over take him, but claim that Nadal is playing at peak.

He may stay top 10 the next 2-3 years if he does not stop his career before but he is not anymore the player he once was.

Djokovic really destroyed him, he humiliated him everywhere on everysurface and in every big tournament. Following this, Nadal has lost all his mental and confidence. He does not think anymore he si the best.

Worst, he does not think anymore he can win against Djokovic. And he can't. He won't beat Djokovic except a fluke injury for the next 20 encouters.

Knowing this, his motivation has felt drastically. Now that he know that he can't be the best anymore, he is vulnerable to all players. His play since the USO has been dramatic. And he has been injury free.

Nadal will not win a new slam and people should stop finding excuses and thinking he will suddenly come back. The Nadal we knew is gone.

DjokovicForTheWin
02-25-2012, 09:04 AM
Many Federer fans believe that Nadal will be dropping below #2 and Federer will over take him, but claim that Nadal is playing at peak.

Oh is it impossible for Nadal to be playing at peak and be below Federer? Interesting, kinda like the Nadal never loses playing peak. I wonder what djoker thinks about that :)

zagor
02-25-2012, 09:11 AM
Many Federer fans believe that Nadal will be dropping below #2 and Federer will over take him, but claim that Nadal is playing at peak.

Nope, many Fed fans believe it is *possible* that Fed will regain the #2 spot *if* Nadal loses early in several tourneys. You didn't read the poll option properly.

BTW. shouldn't you be disgusted at the OP for making excuses (ie Nadal is not the player he used to be) for 25 year old Nadal?

TMF
02-25-2012, 09:47 AM
Many Federer fans believe that Nadal will be dropping below #2 and Federer will over take him, but claim that Nadal is playing at peak.

It's reasonable to believe Fed can get to #2. Nadal has a lot of points to defend from now on and if he can't defend all of his points and Fed gain some, there's a chance. This is not to say OLD Fed is better than a prime Nadal. And it's reasonable to say Nadal is playing peak tennis because of his results...he's only 25 and been consistently making the slam finals. Wake up !

jackson vile
02-25-2012, 10:00 AM
It's reasonable to believe Fed can get to #2. Nadal has a lot of points to defend from now on and if he can't defend all of his points and Fed gain some, there's a chance. This is not to say OLD Fed is better than a prime Nadal. And it's reasonable to say Nadal is playing peak tennis because of his results...he's only 25 and been consistently making the slam finals. Wake up !

So in your world Nadal playing his "peak/best possible tennis" would allow a "past peak and past prime" Federer to move to #2 right before the FO and I am the one that needs to wake up?

TMF
02-25-2012, 10:09 AM
So in your world Nadal playing his "peak/best possible tennis" would allow a "past peak and past prime" Federer to move to #2 right before the FO and I am the one that needs to wake up?

The reason is Nadal has a lot of points to defend and while Fed has a chance to gain. Someone already posted the total number of points Nadal has to defend from now til after Wimbledon. People are just saying there's a chance, anything can happen so stop being so insecure.

jackson vile
02-25-2012, 10:13 AM
The reason is Nadal has a lot of points to defend and while Fed has a chance to gain. Someone already posted the total number of points Nadal has to defend from now til after Wimbledon. People are just saying there's a chance, anything can happen so stop being so insecure.

There's literally a statistics chance for almost everything, so it is absolutely absurd to the point of fantasy. The only guy that has a lot of points to defend it Novak.

Stop and think for a second, Federer is going to have to defeat both Nadal and Novak in order to even win any tournament they are all in.

What is actually possible is that Nadal moves to number 1, although I don't believe Novak is going to let that happen. Federer would need both Novak and Nadal to lose early multiple times before the FO. There is nothing reasonable about that, The End.

Cup8489
02-25-2012, 10:19 AM
There's literally a statistics chance for almost everything, so it is absolutely absurd to the point of fantasy. The only guy that has a lot of points to defend it Novak.

Stop and think for a second, Federer is going to have to defeat both Nadal and Novak in order to even win any tournament they are all in.

What is actually possible is that Nadal moves to number 1, although I don't believe Novak is going to let that happen. Federer would need both Novak and Nadal to lose early multiple times before the FO. There is nothing reasonable about that, The End.

Oh, and why is that? they can't possibly lose before the semis and finals of every event?

Why even play the tournaments then?

DjokovicForTheWin
02-25-2012, 10:24 AM
Oh, and why is that? they can't possibly lose before the semis and finals of every event?

Why even play the tournaments then?

Haven't you heard? Peak Nadal can never lose and can never not be #1.

jackson vile
02-25-2012, 10:28 AM
Oh, and why is that? they can't possibly lose before the semis and finals of every event?

Why even play the tournaments then?

You really believe that Novak and Nadal are going to go on a losing streak right before the FO. Honestly, even if that happens Nadal will still be the #1 or #2 seed at the FO which is what the whole original discussion was about.

TMF
02-25-2012, 10:41 AM
There's literally a statistics chance for almost everything, so it is absolutely absurd to the point of fantasy. The only guy that has a lot of points to defend it Novak.

Stop and think for a second, Federer is going to have to defeat both Nadal and Novak in order to even win any tournament they are all in.

What is actually possible is that Nadal moves to number 1, although I don't believe Novak is going to let that happen. Federer would need both Novak and Nadal to lose early multiple times before the FO. There is nothing reasonable about that, The End.

Fed is only 2000 points behind Nadal, not like he's 5000. You have to remember Fed gobbled up a lot of points after the USO which is the reason he's currently #3, so the pressure is on him to defend is after the USO. Meanwhile Nadal has a lot of points to defend starting now. To ask him consistently making the finals(and win some) is mountain to climb and it's possible he can slip a few. I don't see why you act as it's almost impossible for Fed to catch Nadal when it can take only a few results to get there.

jackson vile
02-25-2012, 10:49 AM
Fed is only 2000 points behind Nadal, not like he's 5000. You have to remember Fed gobbled up a lot of points after the USO which is the reason he's currently #3, so the pressure is on him to defend is after the USO. Meanwhile Nadal has a lot of points to defend starting now. To ask him consistently making the finals(and win some) is mountain to climb and it's possible he can slip a few. I don't see why you act as it's almost impossible for Fed to catch Nadal when it can take only a few results to get there.

All during the clay season right???? How well did Federer do during the clay season last year against Novak and Nadal? Finally you did not say possible, you said reasonable, again there is nothing reasonable about it.

TMF
02-25-2012, 11:01 AM
All during the clay season right???? How well did Federer do during the clay season last year against Novak and Nadal? Finally you did not say possible, you said reasonable, again there is nothing reasonable about it.

I still stand by my point that it's reasonable for Fed to catch him. Remember, it's you who claimed Nadal is in decline so chances are he cannot match last year results.

DjokovicForTheWin
02-25-2012, 11:04 AM
All during the clay season right???? How well did Federer do during the clay season last year against Novak and Nadal? Finally you did not say possible, you said reasonable, again there is nothing reasonable about it.

So you admit Fed is in decline! Thank you :)

jackson vile
02-25-2012, 12:17 PM
So you admit Fed is in decline! Thank you :)

Federer is past his prime if 1) he drops out of top 5 permanently and 2) is consistently losing to lesser players that are not on fire.

kishnabe
02-25-2012, 12:23 PM
Federer is past his prime if 1) he drops out of top 5 permanently and 2) is consistently losing to lesser players that are not on fire.

So that means Nadal is in his prime still?

DjokovicForTheWin
02-25-2012, 12:23 PM
Federer is past his prime if 1) he drops out of top 5 permanently and 2) is consistently losing to lesser players that are not on fire.

So you agree Nadal is peak! Thank you :)

kishnabe
02-25-2012, 12:52 PM
So you agree Nadal is peak! Thank you :)

Great minds think alike, unfortunate Jack Piles couldn't see through that argument.

NadalAgassi
02-25-2012, 01:24 PM
Federer is far more likely to drop points during the clay court season than Nadal. Federer in fact is highly unlikely to make the semis or finals of all big clay court events he entered like last year. Nadal on the other hand if anything had a subpar clay season for his standards, but even if he lost a couple clay finals to Djokovic going into RG again he still wouldnt be doing any worse. Does one really think the odds are for an aging Federer to reduce the gap of only doing 1 round worse than Nadal on clay this year (which would have been good for him evne in his prime). Get real, the odds of him even sustaining that gap is very low. Miami is slow these days so one can expect Nadal to do better there too, perhaps by more than the 1 round he did last year. The only event Federer has a decent chance to gain points on Nadal is Indian Wells. Federer might well be the World #4 going into Roland Garros depending how Murray plays, #2 is a **** fantasy.

jackson vile
02-25-2012, 02:28 PM
Good luck with your argument, these guys are in **** land loving it up on one another. They think Federer can really make it to #2 seed at FO and year end #2 before FO as well.:confused:

Federer is far more likely to drop points during the clay court season than Nadal. Federer in fact is highly unlikely to make the semis or finals of all big clay court events he entered like last year. Nadal on the other hand if anything had a subpar clay season for his standards, but even if he lost a couple clay finals to Djokovic going into RG again he still wouldnt be doing any worse. Does one really think the odds are for an aging Federer to reduce the gap of only doing 1 round worse than Nadal on clay this year (which would have been good for him evne in his prime). Get real, the odds of him even sustaining that gap is very low. Miami is slow these days so one can expect Nadal to do better there too, perhaps by more than the 1 round he did last year. The only event Federer has a decent chance to gain points on Nadal is Indian Wells. Federer might well be the World #4 going into Roland Garros depending how Murray plays, #2 is a **** fantasy.

jackson vile
02-25-2012, 02:28 PM
So that means Nadal is in his prime still?

Who said he wasn't???? You guys are so far out there, take your meds! LOL

DjokovicForTheWin
02-25-2012, 02:38 PM
Who said he wasn't???? You guys are so far out there, take your meds! LOL

DIdn't you say Nadal was not his peak anymore? :) Would you like evidence?

Hitman
02-25-2012, 02:45 PM
DIdn't you say Nadal was not his peak anymore? :) Would you like evidence?

Hey DFTW.

What do you think of the Dubai draw? Do you think Djokovic can make it four in a row. He's got Murray in his half there.

DjokovicForTheWin
02-25-2012, 02:49 PM
Hey DFTW.

What do you think of the Dubai draw? Do you think Djokovic can make it four in a row. He's got Murray in his half there.

Good draw for Fed not having to play Murray in the semi. If Murray can take Djoker to the limit, then we could have a good final if Fed makes it. Last year Djoker beat Fed pretty easily, so advantage Djoker. But look for a potential Murrayndl upset of Djoker!

Hitman
02-25-2012, 02:53 PM
Good draw for Fed not having to play Murray in the semi. If Murray can take Djoker to the limit, then we could have a good final if Fed makes it. Last year Djoker beat Fed pretty easily, so advantage Djoker. But look for a potential Murrayndl upset of Djoker!

Yeah, Fed also doesn't have to play Del Potro until the semis at least. And the big man might be running on fumes by then, if he gets there after these past two weeks.

I think Murray and Lendl must be rubbing their hands together, anticipating another match with Djokovic. Last year, Novak crushed Roger fairly easily. It was something quite special, he was unplayable at times. Murray being there changes the dynamics a little.

tacou
02-25-2012, 03:00 PM
OP, what has instigated this? what has *finally* happened? last I checked Nadal made 4 slam finals in a row, winning 1 and losing the other 3 to the best player in the world, none in straights, and the most recent being an extremely competitive match, to put it lightly.

If Nadal is done as a top player that means Novak is the only top player there is..ludicrous

FlashFlare11
02-25-2012, 03:50 PM
DIdn't you say Nadal was not his peak anymore? :) Would you like evidence?

Why show Jackson vile any evidence when he says things that don't even make sense but the second you ask for proof backing it up, all he can show for it is a GIF?

Anyway, all everyone is saying is that the possibility exists, no matter how remote. If Nadal loses early in any one or two of the next 5 Masters events and Roger has a good showing at a few, who's to say he can't get to No. 2 after Wimbledon?

Evan77
02-25-2012, 04:31 PM
yes, Nadal is still in his prime...he would win against anyone not called Djokovic. Novak is his only problem, and Rafa can't solve it.

celoft
02-26-2012, 06:33 AM
He is done winning big titles off clay. MM perhaps as well.

jackson vile
02-26-2012, 08:59 AM
Federer is past his prime if 1) he drops out of top 5 permanently and 2) is consistently losing to lesser players that are not on fire.

This is to help the mental midgets, they can't keep their thoughts straight at all. They make believe Federer is an old washed up man but will some how make it to a #2 seed at FO. They can't make up their contorted minds.

jackson vile
02-26-2012, 09:01 AM
Why show Jackson vile any evidence when he says things that don't even make sense but the second you ask for proof backing it up, all he can show for it is a GIF?

Anyway, all everyone is saying is that the possibility exists, no matter how remote. If Nadal loses early in any one or two of the next 5 Masters events and Roger has a good showing at a few, who's to say he can't get to No. 2 after Wimbledon?

The original debate is whether or not Federer could be seeded #2 at FO. You keep changing the terms and the debate, it is hilarious to watch you do so.

FlashFlare11
02-26-2012, 09:28 AM
The original debate is whether or not Federer could be seeded #2 at FO. You keep changing the terms and the debate, it is hilarious to watch you do so.

Does that not represent the presence of a possibility?

Mike Sams
02-26-2012, 09:34 AM
yes, Nadal is still in his prime...he would win against anyone not called Djokovic. Novak is his only problem, and Rafa can't solve it.

Novak is everybody's problem! Not just Nadal's. :lol:

tennis_pro
02-26-2012, 09:48 AM
The original debate is whether or not Federer could be seeded #2 at FO. You keep changing the terms and the debate, it is hilarious to watch you do so.

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/4996/jacksonvile.jpg

Talk about being hilarious....you just never take a rest, do you?

jackson vile
02-28-2012, 08:11 AM
The worst part is that no matter how Novak plays Nadal can't seem to defeat him. As you stated, much like what happened to Federer, his mental state and desire may have declined as well.

He may stay top 10 the next 2-3 years if he does not stop his career before but he is not anymore the player he once was.

Djokovic really destroyed him, he humiliated him everywhere on everysurface and in every big tournament. Following this, Nadal has lost all his mental and confidence. He does not think anymore he si the best.

Worst, he does not think anymore he can win against Djokovic. And he can't. He won't beat Djokovic except a fluke injury for the next 20 encouters.

Knowing this, his motivation has felt drastically. Now that he know that he can't be the best anymore, he is vulnerable to all players. His play since the USO has been dramatic. And he has been injury free.

Nadal will not win a new slam and people should stop finding excuses and thinking he will suddenly come back. The Nadal we knew is gone.

TMF
02-28-2012, 09:25 AM
The worst part is that no matter how Novak plays Nadal can't seem to defeat him. As you stated, much like what happened to Federer, his mental state and desire may have declined as well.

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT ???

Comparing Fed to Nadal is apple to orange. Fed has accomplished everything so it's natural for a player to lose motivation, concentration, and desire. Plus, he's not young anymore, a responsible husband which rob his time/focus from the sport. In contrast with Nadal, he's 5 years younger in his prime and is starving to win everything. He's so desperate to even demand a 2 years ranking, cut down hc tournaments at the end of the year just to suit his future. Nadal is envy of Federer's accomplishment, has established his own goal, and will do anything to get it(some people have said Nadal is on PED). Nadal will play even if he has one good leg whether if Nole is playing or not. Plus, Nadal is still single and he's free to focus on tennis 100%.

Fed can retire now and be happy with everything he won, but Nadal is too ambitious....he desperately wants to be in the same spotlight as Federer in the future.

monfed
02-28-2012, 07:51 PM
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT ???

Comparing Fed to Nadal is apple to orange. Fed has accomplished everything so it's natural for a player to lose motivation, concentration, and desire. Plus, he's not young anymore, a responsible husband which rob his time/focus from the sport. In contrast with Nadal, he's 5 years younger in his prime and is starving to win everything. He's so desperate to even demand a 2 years ranking, cut down hc tournaments at the end of the year just to suit his future. Nadal is envy of Federer's accomplishment, has established his own goal, and will do anything to get it(some people have said Nadal is on PED). Nadal will play even if he has one good leg whether if Nole is playing or not. Plus, Nadal is still single and he's free to focus on tennis 100%.

Fed can retire now and be happy with everything he won, but Nadal is too ambitious....he desperately wants to be in the same spotlight as Federer in the future.

Very true. Ralph is gunning for #16 even though he doesn't admit it. One conniving fellow that Nadal is.