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View Full Version : Rafter v Roddick


laurie
07-16-2005, 06:12 AM
I was thinking about this as both have appeared in two Wimbledon finals. Of course I know Rafter is retired. But who do you think has the better game between the two men? One common thing is that they both use abbreviated service motions. Just a quick look at their achievements:

Rafter; two US Opens, two Wimbledon finals, Aussie semifinal, Roland Garros semifinal, involved in Davis Cup sucess (not in final though, was injured in 1999 against France & Hewitt replaced him), Canadian Open, Cincinatti, Indianapolis, World Team cup on clay in Germany, Italian Open final appearance

Roddick so far; One US Open, two Wimbledon finals, Aussie semifinal, Canadian Open, Cincinatti, Key Biscane, Houston, Davis Cup final appearance.

Rafter improved his backhand as he got older. Roddick has to improve aspects of his game.

Who's the better player? Are they both underachievers or overacheivers?

sedwickdotcom
07-16-2005, 06:37 AM
good thread with good comparisons but i think its too early in roddicks career to start comparing the two. Rods only been playin in the top echelon of players for about 2.5 yrs now.

uNIVERSE mAN
07-16-2005, 10:32 AM
too early? Rafter was a mediocre player.

raftermania
07-16-2005, 11:33 AM
EXCUSE ME? Why on earth is he a mediocre player? Get out of here, you troll.

thejackal
07-16-2005, 11:37 AM
They are/were both good players. Both had good serves (for their purposes) and was great at one other thing (Roddick - fh and Rafter - volleys). Was Rafter ever #1? Because I dont remember if he ever was.

Kobble
07-16-2005, 12:00 PM
Rafter was better. He was able to pressure the best players in his time.

Chadwixx
07-16-2005, 12:04 PM
its an insult to rafter to compare him to roddick. roddick is a media made champion to sell tickets. rafter was a true warrior.

Andres
07-16-2005, 12:17 PM
Rafter was #1

(Career High INDESIT ATP Entry Ranking - Singles: 1 (7/26/1999)

Roddick has better serve and forehand, but Rafter was greater at volleys, backhand, and overall atlethicism (what an athlete)

My choice is Rafter ;)

jhhachamp
07-16-2005, 12:44 PM
There achievements are comparable right now, though I think Roddick will have a more successful career when all is said and done. It is hard to say who was better at their peak, but I think Roddick will be more successful because he will be a top player for longer than Rafter was.

Andres
07-16-2005, 12:50 PM
Rafter had a career plagued with injuries, and had the though luck to be a pro in the same time than Sampras, Agassi, Kafelnikov, Ivanisevic, and other great champions.

Roddick only got one real threat on Federer (add Hewitt or Safin, but it's no comparation)

fedex27
07-16-2005, 12:51 PM
if rafter was mediocre why even bother to pick up a racquet
too early? Rafter was a mediocre player.

JUSTlN7
07-16-2005, 12:58 PM
Rafter all day long. He may be taken to a few tie brakers, but roddick lacks variation, anticipation, and general tennis understanding. Federer exploits these faults everytime and makes him look very one dimensional. Where as Agassi, Hewitt, Grosjean have all given Federer good matches and played proper intelligent tennis with him.
Tennis is all about where you hit the ball, and exploiting your opponents weaknesses. Rafter was far superior at these aspects under pressure.
Roddick just doesn't have 'it'. 'It' is the hidden factor that separates good players from great players. I don't think Roddick will ever win another tournament Federer decides he wants to win. (Federer didn't fancy winning the Australian/French this year).

federerhoogenbandfan
07-16-2005, 03:02 PM
I think Roddick, although it would be close. Roddick has a much stronger serve and forehand, return and backhand neither were that great and I would consider them very close, volleys Rafter by a mile, and athleticsm also to Rafter, mental game probably slightly to Rafter as well. To be able to overpower with 1 or 2 shots is very important when they players are fairly close though, and that is why I think Roddick would have the slight edge in their head to head.

Yours!05
07-16-2005, 03:51 PM
uNIVERSE mAN - Rafter was a mediocre player.
raftermania - EXCUSE ME? Why on earth is he a mediocre player? Get out of here, you troll.Just as well raftermania can be depended upon to keep the nightwatch. By the time I arise from the sleep of the just and the fair, it's always all been said, except this: I know for a fact that pATRICK rAFTER knew which was the Shift and which was the Caps Lock.
I cannot add to the wise words of the excellent judges quoted below:
Andres Guazzelli - Rafter had a career plagued with injuries, and had the tough luck to be a pro in the same time than Sampras, Agassi, Kafelnikov, Ivanisevic, and other great champions...Roddick has better serve and forehand, but Rafter was greater at volleys, backhand, and overall atlethicism (what an athlete)
JUSTIN7 - roddick lacks variation, anticipation, and general tennis understanding... [and] 'It' is the hidden factor that separates good players from great players.
Chadwixx - rafter was a true warrior.But I hear things about Andy. He is developing a charming and winning public persona - but it was not always thus. Just as I am not fooled by the kissybow-y gentleman of the court that is Andre today.
Which reminds me, Rafter would still be playing if he juiced. I know this for a fact because as a S&Ver myself, it takes me half an hour to get out of bed in the morning, as it did Patrick - and that's with 2 espressos!Steve Dykstra - but I think Roddick will be more successful because he will be a top player for longer than Rafter was.and that's the bottom line.

(raftermania - did you miss this thread: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=55149 ? It lacks authenticity w.out your contribution)

raftermania
07-16-2005, 05:04 PM
yOURS! oops, I forgot how the caps system works on my keyboard for a second...

Yours! I checked out that other thread. I thought there were going to be some Rafter bashers, but instead there turned out to be a ton of users putting Rafter in their top three. I'm quite impressed!!

An aside while on Rafter, while working the bar at my local club today, I found an old tape in the drawer of Pat's clobbering of Flipper at the 98' USO final. After watching so much current tennis, with the massive abundance of play from the baseline - it was a welcome contrast to enjoy a classic S&V Rafter match again! I'll have to start visiting my Rafter tape collection more often to keep things in perspective!

Rafter would still be playing if he juiced.

Juiced? As in Coria/Puerta/Chela juiced??? Pat would have to change his whole view of life in order to succumb to that stuff!

And, a factoid that the always knowledgable Mary Carrillo dropped during the USO match - Pat donated 1/3 of his 97' US Open winnings annonymously to an Australian children's hospital, however people later found out it was him. ;) What a guy, huh?

drjam932
07-16-2005, 09:26 PM
Rafter is the best volley than anyone. I would say compare to Roddick. Rafter is the best net player. Roddick is good at serve and backcourt. If i was an tennis anylasis. I would say Roddick will win. In my heart, Rafter is the best player for net player. No Comment on Roddick.

hyperwarrior
07-16-2005, 09:35 PM
too early? Rafter was a mediocre player.

HEY!!!!! Don't insult Raftermania's favorite player. I'm here to defend all of my countrymen! Your brain is mediocre!

raftermania
07-16-2005, 09:42 PM
Peace up, eight town down hyperwarrior! You da' man. I got your back too, fellow cANUCK, I mean, Canuck.

glass
07-16-2005, 10:15 PM
Rafter would eat Roddick.

bertrevert
07-17-2005, 05:54 AM
Do you remember that Rafter high-over-the-backhand-shoulder smash he used to do? It still makes me green with envy. Basically, if anyone chipped or lobbed over his backhand he used to have this uncanny ability to see the ball, at its height pick it oout of the air, and smash it. But to do all this he would have his back to the net and to the opponent. He'd get some of the sharpest smash angles with this shot. Watch out though if you try this at home you will find out what should pain really means!

Heh-heh more power to Pat for leaving a lasting legacy. No Wimbledon (neck)tie though. :(

Yours!05
07-18-2005, 04:21 PM
Do you remember that Rafter high-over-the-backhand-shoulder smash he used to do? It still makes me green with envy. Basically, if anyone chipped or lobbed over his backhand he used to have this uncanny ability to see the ball, at its height pick it oout of the air, and smash it. But to do all this he would have his back to the net and to the opponent.Always in my mind's eye when his name in mentioned. Side by side with Rosewall's backhand.

VamosRafa
07-18-2005, 11:02 PM
Rafter was an amazing player -- so fun to watch with his S&V. But if necessary, he could, and would play from the baseline. But the best part of Rafter was watching him charge to the net.

Andy and Pat have different service games. Andy will go for the ace, and then if it comes back, he will try to finish it off with his forehand from the baseline. He has a great kick serve, particularly on his second serve, but it's not often that he comes in behind it (but he's doing that more these days).

In contrast, Pat was always playing two-shot tennis on his serve. He would use his kick serve to set up his volley, and then would come in to finish off the point. Sometimes he would get passed, but on faster surfaces, he would often win the point.

Neither one of them is known as a great returner, and that probably is a fair comparison there.

No question Pat is the better volleyer. And no question Andy is the better server. Their careers are somewhat similar in terms of results, as pointed out, but Andy is a long way from retirement. Will be interesting to see how they do in the end. The one thing that Pat did that Andy doesn't is play a lot of doubles.

TS Ramesh
07-19-2005, 05:15 AM
Rafter was never year-ending #1. He briefly took over #1 in the entry system rankings in 1999, but it was Agassi that ended that year as #1.

rhubarb
07-19-2005, 05:17 AM
Yes, it was the shortest tenure at number one ever - a single week!

laurie
07-19-2005, 10:50 AM
Thats a tie then. In March that year Moya was also number 1 for a week. I remember him celebrating with his entourage as if he'd won the Davis cup . I think it was at Key Biscane.

rhubarb
07-19-2005, 10:54 AM
Moya actually managed a grand total of two weeks ;)

laurie
07-19-2005, 11:14 AM
My apologies to Moya

slice bh compliment
07-19-2005, 12:09 PM
Thats a tie then. In March that year Moya was also number 1 for a week. I remember him celebrating with his entourage as if he'd won the Davis cup . I think it was at Key Biscane.


Yeah, I remember that, too. It was right before he lost to Flip in the Indian Wells final. Time flies.

Kevin Patrick
07-19-2005, 12:33 PM
Yeah, '99 was a strange year for the #1 ranking. 5 different players held it at some point. Rafter achieved it during a week in which he didn't even play(scheduling quirk allowed him to pass Sampras)
Kafelnikov got it during a 6 match losing streak.

As far as the original post goes, Rafter had a great career despite being injured a lot of time (so far Roddick hasn't had to deal with anything serious)

GambitX
07-19-2005, 12:51 PM
The only thing Roddick has is power.
No Finesse. Rafter had finesse. and like we have seen with the Williams Sisters, Power wil only get you so far... until other ppl with Power AND Finesse come along and start winning.

Andres
07-19-2005, 04:05 PM
I think Marcelo Rios was #1 for only 1 week too ;)

FiveO
07-19-2005, 04:22 PM
There achievements are comparable right now, though I think Roddick will have a more successful career when all is said and done. It is hard to say who was better at their peak, but I think Roddick will be more successful because he will be a top player for longer than Rafter was.

Good post. But, if Roddick were forced to retire today, due to injury or some other calamity, I'd say Rafter definitely had the better career. I agree with the rest.

To those arguing the head to head match-up, for me, it would come down to one question regarding strengths and weaknesses. That would be how well Roddick could handle Rafter's high bouncing kicker to his bh. And before people jump on me about Roddick's bh, I know had shaky it is. But, IMO it breaks down under constant pressure from the ground and more so on lower balls. Against Rafter it would be a series of high one-timers. And as well as Rafter could neutralize Agassi's bh with the high bouncing kick, Roddick is the bigger (taller) man and it may be his best strike zone off that side. That being said I'd root for Rafter, as one of my favorites, but I'd be interested in seeing that shot to shot match-up play out.

Yours!05
07-19-2005, 04:26 PM
[Rafter's] was the shortest tenure at number one ever - a single week! - rhubarb
I think Marcelo Rios was #1 for only 1 week too - Andres Guazzelli

Poor old Pat. He didn't even want to share an elevator with Rios.;)
(see interview in earlier thread)

fist pump
07-19-2005, 06:53 PM
even if pat only won 2 majors - you could also argue it was hard coz it was back to back ....