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View Full Version : How Long Will the Trivalry Remain Impregnable?


stringertom
12-21-2011, 08:15 AM
Since the beginning of '04 there are only three outsiders to have their names engraved on a major trophy. Your nominees to crash the party, ETA and what they need to improve to raise the trophy(ies) on Championship Sundays.

Mike Sams
12-21-2011, 08:56 AM
Best bet is Andy Murray to finally get in on the action. He's consistently the closest to the top 3 than anybody else on the tour, save a red-hot Del Potro who still is not at the top of his game.

nadalwon2012
12-21-2011, 09:12 AM
Yeah but the gap between Nadal and Murray is widening, Nadal owning him 4-1 this year and beating him at slams on clay, grass and hard. Although Murray came extremely close to beating Djokovic on clay this year, and beat Djokovic on hardcourt, so there are signs in that rivalry.

Mike Sams
12-21-2011, 09:15 AM
Yeah but the gap between Nadal and Murray is widening, Nadal owning him 4-1 this year and beating him at slams on clay, grass and hard. Although Murray came extremely close to beating Djokovic on clay this year, and beat Djokovic on hardcourt, so there are signs in that rivalry.

Murray also beat Nadal twice in Slams and beat him in the Tokyo final this year, I believe it was. Regardless, Murray is still a distance away from the top 3 and is going to have to get a significant win against one of the big 3 in a Slam, preferably in a Final.

nadalwon2012
12-21-2011, 09:21 AM
Murray also beat Nadal twice in Slams and beat him in the Tokyo final this year, I believe it was. Regardless, Murray is still a distance away from the top 3 and is going to have to get a significant win against one of the big 3 in a Slam, preferably in a Final.

Yeah but Nadal was at his worst in early 2010 (Australian Open), lower on confidence than ever. And the other win Murray had over Nadal in slams was 2008, long time ago.

Crazy man
12-21-2011, 09:26 AM
When Raonic gets back to full fitness. He will take Wimbledon. You heard it hear first!

nadalwon2012
12-21-2011, 09:33 AM
Raonic struggles big time vs Nadal once the point is extended past 2 shots. Tomic has a greater chance than Raonic, especially after Tomic hurt Djokovic more than anyone at Wimbledon this year (losing in a 7-5 4th set).

celoft
12-21-2011, 09:36 AM
Maybe Murray.

Crazy man
12-21-2011, 09:39 AM
Raonic struggles big time vs Nadal once the point is extended past 2 shots. Tomic has a greater chance than Raonic, especially after Tomic hurt Djokovic more than anyone at Wimbledon this year (losing in a 7-5 4th set).

I just happened to notice this crock of crap. Lol. Seriously? I don't even know what to say to this statement. Now every idiot on this board thinks Tomic has better potential than Raonic, which is obsurd. Raonic played Nadal before he took his game to the next level. Tomic is an ok mover with 0 weapons. Raonic has a much more devastating game.



A Nadal fan judging a player based on one match.....Nothing new then.

Dream_On
12-21-2011, 09:41 AM
All the young guys are good matchups against nadal..

Tomic, Raonic etc have games that matchup well to beat him unlike the current generation of players.

Crazy man
12-21-2011, 09:46 AM
All the young guys are good matchups against nadal..

Tomic, Raonic etc have games that matchup well to beat him unlike the current generation of players.

Tomic? No chance. He's got nothing to hurt Nadal with; ok mover, no big weapons, ok server and too finish not even physically gifted for someone who plays a taxing game. Raonic on the other hand would love playing Nadal. Serves big (and his serve is only going to get better), huge FH, good enough BH. Now if he developes dexterity around the net and comes in after his serve, then we could see a new slam champion in the next year/two years.

eric draven
12-21-2011, 09:58 AM
I'd say the best candidates are Del Potro if he can return to form and Murray. But unless Murray makes a breakthrough this year at the Australian or at Wimbledon I don't think it will happen for him. Del Potro has the experience and firepower to really threaten the top three.

sureshs
12-21-2011, 10:15 AM
Tsonga, Raonic and Young.

nadalwon2012
12-21-2011, 11:30 AM
I just happened to notice this crock of crap. Lol. Seriously? I don't even know what to say to this statement. Now every idiot on this board thinks Tomic has better potential than Raonic, which is obsurd. Raonic played Nadal before he took his game to the next level. Tomic is an ok mover with 0 weapons. Raonic has a much more devastating game.



A Nadal fan judging a player based on one match.....Nothing new then.

When was Raonic's next level? They played in 2010 and 2011....both matches were on hardcourt and both straight sets Nadal. Raonic as expected holds serve successfully (Nadal only broke Raonic's serve once per set in the 4 sets they've played).

In the 2011 meeting (Raonic's next level?) Raonic never had a breakpoint on Nadal's serve. Nadal had 2 breakpoints and converted both. It is tricky for Raonic to save breakpoints because if Nadal gets the ball in play it puts a lot of pressure on Raonic to defy the odds and win a baseline rally (or go for a quick winner or net-charge) under intense scoreboard pressure.

It is one match (or 2 if you count Raonic's 2010 level), but it reveals what we already knew about Nadal. He draws errors from power players.

Hitman
12-21-2011, 12:18 PM
Good question! I would really like to see Murray break through next year, but also would love Del Potro to get back into the mix. It will be interesting to see how solid Novak is, because at the moment, he's the top gun by a long mile.

Mike Sams
12-21-2011, 12:26 PM
Tomic? No chance. He's got nothing to hurt Nadal with; ok mover, no big weapons, ok server and too finish not even physically gifted for someone who plays a taxing game. Raonic on the other hand would love playing Nadal. Serves big (and his serve is only going to get better), huge FH, good enough BH. Now if he developes dexterity around the net and comes in after his serve, then we could see a new slam champion in the next year/two years.

Raonic has already had hip surgery. Make his career over.:)

OddJack
12-21-2011, 12:57 PM
Murray will finaly win by default. Which means the other three are either injured, tired or too old.

nikdom
12-21-2011, 01:17 PM
Very soon. My sense is that break through players always make a huge move after failing to make it many times. They dont usually come out of nowhere. The way Tsonga played in 2011, it wouldn't surprise me if he wins a GS in 2012.

One can always say, oh he really doesn't have it in him, but even Djokovic was the same way for sometime despite the line AO win.

Murray also has a shot but it depends on his mental conviction.

OddJack
12-21-2011, 01:21 PM
Since the beginning of '04 there are only three outsiders to have their names engraved on a major trophy. Your nominees to crash the party, ETA and what they need to improve to raise the trophy(ies) on Championship Sundays.



Del Potro though will never win another major.

MichaelNadal
12-21-2011, 01:32 PM
Very soon. My sense is that break through players always make a huge move after failing to make it many times. They dont usually come out of nowhere. The way Tsonga played in 2011, it wouldn't surprise me if he wins a GS in 2012.

One can always say, oh he really doesn't have it in him, but even Djokovic was the same way for sometime despite the line AO win.

Murray also has a shot but it depends on his mental conviction.

You could definitely be onto something with Tsonga, he seems ready now.

nikdom
12-21-2011, 02:55 PM
You could definitely be onto something with Tsonga, he seems ready now.

Don't know if he's ready or not, but that would be really exciting.

nadalwon2012
12-21-2011, 08:59 PM
Imagine Tsonga/Murray don't win a slam in the next 3 years (while Federer, Djokovic, Nadal win them all)....then Tsonga and Murray would decline with age and Federer/Djokovic/Nadal would dominate even more because the next generation would be too inexperienced to replace Tsonga/Murray as legit threats.

MariaRafael
12-21-2011, 09:28 PM
Raonic, Tomic, Donald Young, ... Who are they?

Raonic: best ranking - 25, 1 mickey mouse tournament under the belt
Tomic: best ranking - 41, zero tournaments won.

And please, don't bother me with the comments about them being soooooooo young. Tomic is 19, Raonic is nearly 21. At Tomic's age Nadal was a slam winner and world No.2 with 16 tournament won 6 of them being masters events. At Raonic's age Nadal won 22 tourneys, 3 of them were slams, 8 of them were masters.

It might be useful to look at the facts and figures before talking crap about these two being a threat to Nadal.

flyinghippos101
12-21-2011, 09:51 PM
Raonic, Tomic, Donald Young, ... Who are they?

Raonic: best ranking - 25, 1 mickey mouse tournament under the belt
Tomic: best ranking - 41, zero tournaments won.

And please, don't bother me with the comments about them being soooooooo young. Tomic is 19, Raonic is nearly 21. At Tomic's age Nadal was a slam winner and world No.2 with 16 tournament won 6 of them being masters events. At Raonic's age Nadal won 22 tourneys, 3 of them were slams, 8 of them were masters.

It might be useful to look at the facts and figures before talking crap about these two being a threat to Nadal.

Age levels the playing field substantially. It doesn't matter if they're not winning slams now, Nadal isn't getting any younger and these guys are getting better. Even the aging greats begin falling to the younger players due mainly to the physical edge.

Stop worshiping Rafa for one second and try to be objective. People think guys like Berdych, Tsonga, Murray, Djok are all huge threats against Federer at slams. Which they are, mainly because they're younger, faster and only getting better. Their results in relation to Fed when he was 24-26 are irrelevant to how much a threat they pose against him now and in the future. And I doubt Rafa can maintain his gruelling defensive style as he gets older. Not to mention, you're trying to compare two young upstarts to an all-time great, an anomaly. Age is the great equalizer between the young and the old.

ThoughtCrime
12-21-2011, 10:04 PM
Is anyone else tired of seeing statements like "X player will never win a slam" or something along those lines. We can only speculate based on current and past events but to definitively say that something will or will not happened in the future, without definitive proof, comes of really ignorant.

You can express your opinions and thoughts on the matter, but to actually definitively predict the future is impossible.

Mike Sams
12-21-2011, 10:10 PM
You could definitely be onto something with Tsonga, he seems ready now.

Didn't like Tsonga's performance against Federer at the USO. Straight sets loss. If that's what Tsonga is gonna put out when expectations are high, he's got little chance.

j00dypoo
12-21-2011, 10:13 PM
Yeah I have no idea. This sport is unpredictable to a degree. Some guys will have several disappointing seasons and then 2 months later start destroying their opponents.

You *******s that immediately start trolling and acting like idiots toward other posters only make yourselves look worse. Give your own opinions and respect others.

And.... Tsonga is still improving but looks too unsteady at times. I think Tsonga, Murray and Delpo are legitimate threats. Raonic is exciting to watch. At times he looks solid enough to make deep runs in tournaments.

Spring Pools
12-21-2011, 10:13 PM
If only Berdych had a brain cell...

j00dypoo
12-21-2011, 10:24 PM
If only Berdych had a brain cell...

doesn't matter - he has sex with his gf

stringertom
12-22-2011, 04:50 AM
Assuming health is not an issue, IMO the key ingredient separating the trivalry from the pack lies between the ears. Before his wrist injury, we saw JMDP approach and enter the sanctum of champions. If he can regain the confidence of '09 and avoid further injury, he is my choice. Had JWT won the '08AO final after his big win vs Nadal, he would have been there (ditto SF W'11 Djok loss after Fed match). They both have the weapons to succeed. The mental hurdles remain. Ditto for Mr. Murray...he needs to turn it up a notch in matches 6 and 7 for him to clear the jump into the winner's circle.

SLD76
12-22-2011, 06:06 AM
Yeah but Nadal was at his worst in early 2010 (Australian Open), lower on confidence than ever. And the other win Murray had over Nadal in slams was 2008, long time ago.

always with the excuses.

sureshs
12-22-2011, 06:33 AM
Why do I get the feeling that OP created the thread to show off his vocabulary :-)

stringertom
12-22-2011, 09:50 AM
Why do I get the feeling that OP created the thread to show off his vocabulary :-)

It took me 30 posts to respond so I'm not exactly "showing off", no?

nadalwon2012
12-22-2011, 02:21 PM
always with the excuses.

Yep heaven forbid cause and effect.

Xizel
12-22-2011, 03:12 PM
Tsonga and Dimitrov (kidding).