PDA

View Full Version : With each passing season, doesn't Federer get worse?


Mike Sams
12-22-2011, 04:36 PM
2010...his last great showing at a Slam as he won the AO and lost in the QF and SF stages for the 3 remaining Slams.

2011...made 1 final, lost the rest in the QF and SF stages.

Yet Federer and his fans still remain upbeat about his chances of winning more Slams and regaining the #1 ranking.:-?

I know he's in great health but how does he plan on winning anything with the likes of Djokovic and Nadal in his way? He can't beat them both back to back in a Slam. Even Federer fans know that.

DjokovicForTheWin
12-22-2011, 04:41 PM
Murray has to be his friend.

_maxi
12-22-2011, 04:45 PM
2010...his last great showing at a Slam as he won the AO and lost in the QF and SF stages for the 3 remaining Slams.

2011...made 1 final, lost the rest in the QF and SF stages.

Yet Federer and his fans still remain upbeat about his chances of winning more Slams and regaining the #1 ranking.:-?

I know he's in great health but how does he plan on winning anything with the likes of Djokovic and Nadal in his way? He can't beat them both back to back in a Slam. Even Federer fans know that.
Yes, he gets worse. But I don't think the 2010 Federer was much better than the 2011 Federer. Both were worse than 2004-2007, but 2010-2011 Federer, and 2012, still has the chance, of winning one and maybe two slams before retirement. Doesn't mean he will, but he can. That's it.
Winning one slam, making a final or two, and winning some masters, can push him to #1 if we have a year where nobody dominates. Just like it used to happen in the past before the Federer era.

Pwned
12-22-2011, 04:45 PM
2010...his last great showing at a Slam as he won the AO and lost in the QF and SF stages for the 3 remaining Slams.

2011...made 1 final, lost the rest in the QF and SF stages.

Yet Federer and his fans still remain upbeat about his chances of winning more Slams and regaining the #1 ranking.:-?

I know he's in great health but how does he plan on winning anything with the likes of Djokovic and Nadal in his way? He can't beat them both back to back in a Slam. Even Federer fans know that.
Federer doesn't necessarily have to beat them back to back. And nobody on here knows anything about future results.

Nathaniel_Near
12-22-2011, 04:52 PM
I think if Roger was to have one year where he makes a one final big push for greatness then it's 2012. Yep, his decline will continue and honestly I see him winning maybe 1 final slam or maybe 0, neither would surprise me.

ultradr
12-22-2011, 04:56 PM
Federer is certainly capable of winning another slam, IMHO. But he appeared
to be losing grip on slams this year, showing difficulties with top 10 players.

Then this his resurgence in 2011 indoor seasons: was it real resurgence or
top players basically tanked in this increasingly irrelevant indoor season ?

We will know by the main tennis season between Roland Garros and US Open
2012...

TheMusicLover
12-22-2011, 05:01 PM
Fed has been in decline ever since 2008. I know there are certain fans having come up with whatever excuses you can think of - you name it, mono (yes it had its influence, but just don't exaggerate it), "he doesn't care anymore", etc.

Fact is, no player stays on top forever, and Fed has already done an awesome job when it comes to consistency. He's dropped a few paces by now, such should be obvious. But as long as he remains in the top #4, he'll remain a contender for yet another slam title. Never count out a great champion like he is.

That said, even if he will remain at 16 GS titles, Fed fans will have nothing to complain about. I am just very happy that his decline seems to be a very gradual one, and am hoping for some late brilliancy from him in what might well be his last season.

Mick
12-22-2011, 05:20 PM
I know he's in great health but how does he plan on winning anything with the likes of Djokovic and Nadal in his way? He can't beat them both back to back in a Slam. Even Federer fans know that.

his fans hope that federer could pull off what jimmy connors has done, win a grand slam title at 31. federer has nadal and djokovic and connors had lendl and mcenroe, they were pretty tough too :)

Crazy man
12-22-2011, 05:24 PM
It's the opposite actually. Federer has been improving each year. His footwork is what he's improved the most and this has translated into less errors in his game. The problem is guys like Nadal, Murray & Djokovic from Tsonga to Soderling have also been improving. Chumps like Roddick, Safin, Hewitt, Agassi, Nalbandian provided no challenege for Federer - hence why Federer struggles to beat guys as talented as himself (because he was caught off guard and couldn't deal with sudden challenges after playing chumps for years).



One of the things that Federer has improved the most is the forehand. Yep, it's not as strong as Djokovic's, Nadal's of Murray's but it's definately in the league just behind it (with Tsonga and Soderling) . Murray I think beats Federer in the forehand department simply because of the angles he can produce.


His backhand is as good as it was when Federer was supposedly better than ever (rofl....to think Federer's 05 level of play trumps 08+).


His serve has also improved, it's now a weapon singularly now.


His return....His return has improved. Guys like Roddick have good serves, but the game has improved on so many levels, Federer can break Roddick two or three times back in 05 but there are so many better servers (and players come to think of it) than Roddick. Someone like Tsonga is one - Federer was hopeless against him at Wimbledon due to Tsonga's serving ability. So again, Federer's return is good and was good against the average servers but not against the brilliance of the current generation.








To summarise, Federer is playing his best tennis ever each passing year and continues to improve. The fact is so are others who can play at a level as high as Federer. Federer didn't benefit from playing mediocre opponents and is now paying the price for it by not being able to step up to challeneges.









Federer's 2011 level would have seen him win all four slams in 2004 and 2005. Maybe even 2006 and 2007.

FlashFlare11
12-22-2011, 05:26 PM
Yes, he's declining. But when you're 30, there's not much to improve right.

We're still upbeat because if you look at the past year, it took an oustanding efforts from Djokovic, Nadal, and Tsonga to beat him. He still gives himself numerous chances and his losses were literally decided by a few points.

Besides, I think the majority of Federer fans just love to see him play. I know I'll be in tears the day he decides to retire and the thought of tennis without Federer is difficult to fathom. He's achieved everything there is so there's not much left but to enjoy the game.

Let's just enjoy what's left of this great champion's illustrious career!

wy2sl0
12-22-2011, 05:31 PM
Are you joking? Your name is obviously Crazy man for a reason.
"One of the things that Federer has improved the most is the forehand. Yep, it's not as strong as Djokovic's, Nadal's of Murray's but it's definately in the league just behind it (with Tsonga and Soderling) . Murray I think beats Federer in the forehand department simply because of the angles he can produce."

Federer has the best forehand in tennis - noone is close. End of discussion.

Maybe you don't understand that he is essentially the only player that, as Nadal has said in his book, can "make winners from nothing".

From a consistency point of view you could say those 3 are better, but not "overall".

Crazy man
12-22-2011, 05:37 PM
Are you joking? Your name is obviously Crazy man for a reason.
"One of the things that Federer has improved the most is the forehand. Yep, it's not as strong as Djokovic's, Nadal's of Murray's but it's definately in the league just behind it (with Tsonga and Soderling) . Murray I think beats Federer in the forehand department simply because of the angles he can produce."

Federer has the best forehand in tennis - noone is close. End of discussion.

Maybe you don't understand that he is essentially the only player that, as Nadal has said in his book, can "make winners from nothing".

From a consistency point of view you could say those 3 are better, but not "overall".



Murray (among others) can play tennis at a level as high, if not, higher than Federer. Federer is getting better every year, n00b! As for the forehand, that can be said with my first statement.

wy2sl0
12-22-2011, 05:38 PM
You aren't even making a good argument. Murray has done nothing to prove he can play tennis at the level of Roger Federer.

And please do not draw on examples of the h2h in non-slams. I mean really, are we going to have this conversation?

Straight up, Murray got beat playing at a very high level by Roddick playing at a very high level in 09 Wimbledon. Federer played very average and still beat Roddick.

stringertom
12-22-2011, 05:42 PM
As a Fedophile, I will be honest in my disappointment that '11 represented the end of his 8-year run with one or more major titles. Fed was there but Djok raised and called. Yet, there's reason to expect better results in '12. The intensity of the Djokdal rivalry may have taken the wind out of both their sails. Also, the Fed'Cone connection has had another full year to gel. Obviously, '12 is gonna be a huge year to steer direction for the rest of Fed's career. Victory in Victoria would go a long way to establishing that this season is not a swan song campaign. Stay tuned.

Crazy man
12-22-2011, 05:42 PM
You aren't even making a good argument. Murray has done nothing to prove he can play tennis at the level of Roger Federer.

And please do not draw on examples of the h2h in non-slams. I mean really, are we going to have this conversation?

Murray has only played his best in MS finals/500 events. He wasn't playing well, else he would have won US Open 08 and AO 2010.

Crazy man
12-22-2011, 05:44 PM
As a Fedophile, I will be honest in my disappointment that '11 represented the end of his 8-year run with one or more major titles. Fed was there but Djok raised and called. Yet, there's reason to expect better results in '12. The intensity of the Djokdal rivalry may have taken the wind out of both their sails. Also, the Fed'Cone connection has had another full year to gel. Obviously, '12 is gonna be a huge year to steer direction for the rest of Fed's career. Victory in Victoria would go a long way to establishing that this season is not a swan song campaign. Stay tuned.

Get him out of here!

wy2sl0
12-22-2011, 05:47 PM
Murray has only played his best in MS finals/500 events. He wasn't playing well, else he would have won US Open 08 and AO 2010.

See the problem is, its best of 3. Thats not real tennis. That is exactly why you could win 0 slams and 30 masters events, and someone with 0 masters and 7 slams would still be better.

Fed doesn't give a crap about MS events. Half the time you can see him quitting. Just read what Murray has said after GS events they played - "Federer is a different player in Grand Slams".

Crazy man
12-22-2011, 05:50 PM
See the problem is, its best of 3. Thats not real tennis. That is exactly why you could win 0 slams and 30 masters events, and someone with 0 masters and 7 slams would still be better.

Lol.


Fed doesn't give a crap about MS events. Half the time you can see him quitting.

Lol. Federer does care, hence why he shows up and wins a lot of them. Get me a video with Federer actually physically quitting a MS/1000 match?

wy2sl0
12-22-2011, 05:52 PM
Lol.



Lol. Federer does care, hence why he shows up and wins a lot of them. Get me a video with Federer actually physically quitting a MS/1000 match?

There are tons of examples. 5-1 final set against Tsonga a couple years ago in Montreal. Tsonga won the final set 7-6. Anyone with half a brain can see that he was not trying.

You are arguing for the wrong guy. Djokovic is a much better player than Murray, and Djoko had problems with Fed while in God mode. Ask Andy Murray whos forehand he would rather have - his or Roger's.

djokovicgonzalez2010
12-22-2011, 05:54 PM
2011 was more consistent, less brilliance. I actually think he played better this year, was unfortunate to not get to #2 due to draws

Crazy man
12-22-2011, 05:58 PM
There are tons of examples. 5-1 final set against Tsonga a couple years ago in Montreal. Tsonga won the final set 7-6. Anyone with half a brain can see that he was not trying.

You are arguing for the wrong guy. Djokovic is a much better player than Murray, and Djoko had problems with Fed while in God mode. Ask Andy Murray whos forehand he would rather have - his or Roger's.

Why would you give up at 5-1 up? Most people would give up at 1-5 down don't you think. Also, Federer would have given up after that tiebreak; Not decide to suddenly tank at 5-1 up. Tsonga played at a higher level that day. Gosh, people are so sensitive when faced with the truth.

Murray would say he'd rather have Federer's forehand out of respect to Federer. But behind closed doors, he'd take his own.

wy2sl0
12-22-2011, 06:01 PM
Murray would say he'd rather have Federer's forehand out of respect to Federer. But behind closed doors, he'd take his own.

Its funny you are arguing this because Murray has one of the best backhands, defense, and movement - but not even one tennis fan in the world would consider Murray's forehand even top 5 in the ATP, and here you are saying it is better than Federer's.

I don't understand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01yPuQiZ-mQ&feature=related

Here is an entire match. Murray is just playing defense most of the time BECAUSE of Federer's forehand.

Crazy man
12-22-2011, 06:05 PM
Its funny you are arguing this because Murray has one of the best backhands, defense, and movement - but not even one tennis fan in the world would consider Murray's forehand even top 5 in the ATP, and here you are saying it is better than Federer's.

I don't understand.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01yPuQiZ-mQ&feature=related

Here is an entire match. Murray is just playing defense most of the time BECAUSE of Federer's forehand.

Ok I am going to put you out of your misery now and say I was being sarcastic on all counts. I'm trying to take the p!ss out of idiots who believe that players today are better than ever (which is clearly not the case) whilst trying to make others rage. I'm sorry you were the guy this time. I just wanted to have fun.

wy2sl0
12-22-2011, 06:08 PM
Ok I am going to put you out of your misery now and say I was being sarcastic on all counts. I'm trying to take the p!ss out of idiots who believe that players today are better than ever (which is clearly not the case) whilst trying to make others rage. I'm sorry you were the guy this time. I just wanted to have fun.

Dude you win I was actually starting to get upset :)

Crazy man
12-22-2011, 06:12 PM
Dude you win I was actually starting to get upset :)

I made one guy give me insults in the 'Nadal competition 2005' thread, I stated Robredo would crush guys like Borg and Guga on clay, guy took it pretty hard. But I promise you no more:).

wy2sl0
12-22-2011, 06:13 PM
I made one guy give me insults in the 'Nadal competition 2005' thread, I stated Robredo would crush guys like Borg and Guga on clay, guy took it pretty hard. But I promise you no more:).

Im actually almost crying from laughing thank you :):)

OddJack
12-22-2011, 06:15 PM
Yes he is getting worse.

Djoker is getting better, he is going to better his number 1 ranking to 0, then -1 next year.

Nadal is going to be soo strong mentally that he will string his rackets tight by simply looking at it, so he will never need to change his rackets.

And if these two are getting better then Federer has no chance anyways, because he won against everyone else

TheMusicLover
12-22-2011, 06:26 PM
2011 was more consistent, less brilliance. I actually think he played better this year, was unfortunate to not get to #2 due to draws

Unfortunate? Fed choked in one GS semifinal and in a final as well.
He was rather lucky to eventually grab back the #3 spot, all Murray had to do was just win one match at the WTF, and he wouldn't have let that spot go.

pame
12-22-2011, 08:45 PM
One thing you have to applaud Crazyman for: he sure chose an appropriate nick :)

adamX012
12-22-2011, 08:47 PM
OP, you asked a good question. I thought about the same question while driving this late evening. I am a his fan but honestly, his chance of winning is a bit less than of his previous success. The fact is he is aging. New guns ( like Sobad mentioned in another thread) might have the better chance of winning slams.

TopFH
12-22-2011, 09:12 PM
One of the things that Federer has improved the most is the forehand. Yep, it's not as strong as Djokovic's, Nadal's of Murray's

Cool story, bro.

Clarky21
12-22-2011, 09:27 PM
Roger's forehand is one of the best shots in tennis. Murray,Nadal,nor **** even come close.

ledwix
12-22-2011, 09:35 PM
2011 felt better than 2010, mainly because Federer was the first person to defeat Novak Djokovic, and he did it in a slam. No slam titles but...he has that 3 tournament winning streak going. He also won Paris, accomplishing something he had never done in any other year in his career. So AO seems promising. But ya know...probably another semi and a loss to Nadal or Djokovic..lol.

FlashFlare11
12-22-2011, 09:49 PM
2011 felt better than 2010, mainly because Federer was the first person to defeat Novak Djokovic, and he did it in a slam. No slam titles but...he has that 3 tournament winning streak going. He also won Paris, accomplishing something he had never done in any other year in his career. So AO seems promising. But ya know...probably another semi and a loss to Nadal or Djokovic..lol.

Yeah, gotta agree here. His level in 2011 just felt a lot higher than 2010. Last year, between the Australian Open and Toronto, it was just a string of early-round losses for Roger. He lost early to Baghdatis and Berdych in Indian Wells and Miami, lost early in Rome and Estoril, made a final in Madrid, quarters at RG, lost to Hewitt at Halle, and then the disaster that was Wimbledon 2010. Last year's Wimbledon was probably one of the lowest points in Roger's career, probably along with Wimbledon 2008 and early 2009.

Even though he didn't win a slam in 2011, Roger played with much more consistency. His partnership with Annacone has no doubt helped him play more aggressively consistently. He went deeper into most tournaments compared to last year. And in the slams, he just barely lost in all four of losses.

Sentinel
12-22-2011, 10:11 PM
Once Federer recovers his mental strength and humour, he'll be unstoppable.



Wait, what ?

Mainad
12-22-2011, 10:14 PM
See the problem is, its best of 3. Thats not real tennis. That is exactly why you could win 0 slams and 30 masters events, and someone with 0 masters and 7 slams would still be better.

Wow, what on Earth have those girls in the WTA been playing all these years?? :wink:


Fed doesn't give a crap about MS events.

Of course he gives a 'crap' about MS events. He just doesn't care about them as much as Slams which is the same for every other player given that the Slams are the supreme events on the tour! He cared enough to produce some of his best tennis to finish this season by winning Basel and Paris and the former is only a 500 event!


Half the time you can see him quitting.

When has he ever 'quit' an MS event that he has ever played? Whenever Federer plays a match, he plays to win it no matter where it may be. He may not always produce his best tennis but he has never tanked a match in his life. To suggest otherwise would be grossly insulting to him.


Just read what Murray has said after GS events they played - "Federer is a different player in Grand Slams".

Well, I daresay everyone is a different player in Slams precisely because they (and Davis Cup) are the only men's tourneys that still play best of 5 sets rather than best of 3. Federer is undeniably good in best of 5 matches probably because he has had much more experience of playing them than someone like Murray has (in Fed's prime most MS events too were in best of 5 format).

purge
12-22-2011, 11:52 PM
im still trying to figure out if crazy man has been serious in this discussion or not..

i cant seem to find any true hint on sarcasm in his posts but.. he just cannot be serious lol. he johnny mac style CAN NOT BE SERIOUS

:? :? :?

merlinpinpin
12-22-2011, 11:58 PM
Unfortunate? Fed choked in one GS semifinal and in a final as well.
He was rather lucky to eventually grab back the #3 spot, all Murray had to do was just win one match at the WTF, and he wouldn't have let that spot go.

No. Murray is almost 800 points behind Federer at the moment, which means he would have needed to qualify for the WTF final to keep the #3 spot.

As for the rest, I also thought that Federer was better (ie more consistent) in 2011 than in 2010, but things didn't go his way. Now, he's 30 and is a slower mover than before, but he's trying to compensate by slightly changing his game, and you should never rule out a champion of his caliber. I mean, Sampras was outside the top 10 at the end of 2001, and that didn't prevent him winning the US Open 2002 (yeah, I know, that was a weak era when you could win a GS by playing a single top 5, blablabla). People have been underestimating Federer (and pushing him towards retirement) since 2008, and he hasn't been too shaby since then for a grandad... ;)

My bet is that he still has a couple of slams (plural) in him, but will be win them? Depends on several factors, so we'll see. 2012 sure is shaping up to be an interesting year, though. ;)

egn
12-23-2011, 12:33 AM
Man TT is breaking grounds today, as a player ages into his late 20s and early 30s he will get worse each year.

zagor
12-23-2011, 01:37 AM
He may not always produce his best tennis but he has never tanked a match in his life. To suggest otherwise would be grossly insulting to him.

I guess I'm grossly insulting him then, I don't for a moment believe that any of the top players never tanked a match in their career(they're not saints) though that term (tanking) is overused on this forum at times.

Well, I daresay everyone is a different player in Slams precisely because they (and Davis Cup) are the only men's tourneys that still play best of 5 sets rather than best of 3.

Slams are a different ballgame though not just because of BO5 format. They are far away the most important tourneys today and every player is aware of that fact.

Federer is undeniably good in best of 5 matches probably because he has had much more experience of playing them than someone like Murray has (in Fed's prime most MS events too were in best of 5 format).

I don't think merely "good" cuts it, he has the record # of slams for the open era (and that insane GS SF streak) which makes him one of the best and most consistent slam players of all time.

I also don't think it just boils down to experience, there are a lot of other factors involved, every player is different and has his own path.

MariaRafael
12-23-2011, 02:24 AM
Federer is getting worse as any ageing sportsmen is.

On the other hand, Jimmy Connors won Wimbledon and USO when he was 30, got another USO tritle when he was 31, performed at his best at RG when he was 32 and 33, reached his last slam semifinal when he was 39. His last victims were a Top 100 player, 21 years younger than Connors, and a Top 50 player, 13 years younger than Connors. He beat then when he was 3 months shy of his 43d birthday.

Andre Agassi won his last slam when he was 33 with all his crippled back and bad foot.

Sampras won his last slam at 31 having a back injury, a shoulder injury and a congenital blood disease.

Federer doesn't have any chronic injuries, nor bad diseases. He may stay on the tour for several more years and win something which was proved by the end of this year: he won 3 tournaments, his WTF is either a record breaker or he is tied with Guillermo VIlas (don't remember), and he won Paris Masters for the first time.

joeri888
12-23-2011, 02:28 AM
Crazy man states Federer gets better every year, yet Murray is better than him. When he essentially said Murray 2011 >>>>>> Federer 2006, the thread ended for me.

DragonBlaze
12-23-2011, 02:56 AM
Crazy man states Federer gets better every year, yet Murray is better than him. When he essentially said Murray 2011 >>>>>> Federer 2006, the thread ended for me.

You should have kept reading. He was being sarcastic/trolling on purpose.

MichaelNadal
12-23-2011, 03:07 AM
Man TT is breaking grounds today, as a player ages into his late 20s and early 30s he will get worse each year.

Federer doesn't have anything to prove, he's already the GOAT, and at 30 can play as long as he wants, and is still a huge force in tennis.

msc886
12-23-2011, 03:35 AM
No he's not getting any better but if he still hangs in there, he will still have opportunities to win another slam or 2 as the players above him tend to overexert therefore will need to rest and that's when Federer can take his chances.

Nathaniel_Near
12-23-2011, 03:40 AM
Fed has been in decline ever since 2008. I know there are certain fans having come up with whatever excuses you can think of - you name it, mono (yes it had its influence, but just don't exaggerate it), "he doesn't care anymore", etc.

Fact is, no player stays on top forever, and Fed has already done an awesome job when it comes to consistency. He's dropped a few paces by now, such should be obvious. But as long as he remains in the top #4, he'll remain a contender for yet another slam title. Never count out a great champion like he is.

That said, even if he will remain at 16 GS titles, Fed fans will have nothing to complain about. I am just very happy that his decline seems to be a very gradual one, and am hoping for some late brilliancy from him in what might well be his last season.

Predicting the same as me, then?

stringertom
12-23-2011, 06:00 AM
Get him out of here!

Sorry that my love for Fed's game offends you in some way...perhaps I should have called myself a member of the BOTE or, grudgingly, admitted a personal tendency towards *******ism.

Sentinel
12-23-2011, 06:13 AM
Man TT is breaking grounds today, as a player ages into his late 20s and early 30s he will get worse each year.
Actually according to Rafael, he gets worse every second year, not each year, thus the need to have a 2 year ranking system.

sportsfan1
12-23-2011, 07:29 AM
Well, the game is STILL there if not as consistent as before, as is the same weakness, and I would imagine the hunger to win is not the same as around 2004/05. The Forehand is a huge weapon, but the BH doesn't match in pace and depth, and that's where the Djoker teed off on in the 5th set of the USO SF. Watching the replays of that 5th set now, lot of BHs landed short around the service line and serve probably lost pace and direction as well. Maybe Fed just got tired or bored. :-?.
That being said, Fed's been there or thereabouts in the GS, so with a little more luck, he could certainly win.

tusharlovesrafa
12-23-2011, 07:32 AM
With each passing thread, doesn't Pike Hams threads get worse?

celoft
12-23-2011, 07:32 AM
Grass is green.

Dilettante
12-23-2011, 07:38 AM
Sad thing nowadays is that, when I come to the boards and take a look, I can't really tell sarcastic/ironic/surrealistic posts from actual stupid posts.

Param
12-23-2011, 08:44 AM
With a lucky draw, red hot players taking out his nemesis Nadal and Djoker early, he still can win one more major. Once Rafa gets married to Xisca, you cannot expect the same level of intensity from him on the tennis courts. Very few people came back still firing on all cylinders after marriage.

Clarky21
12-23-2011, 08:45 AM
With a lucky draw, red hot players taking out his nemesis Nadal and Djoker early, he still can win one more major. Once Rafa gets married to Xisca, you cannot expect the same level of intensity from him on the tennis courts. Very few people came back still firing on all cylinders after marriage.


Nadal is not getting married.

tusharlovesrafa
12-23-2011, 08:54 AM
Nadal is not getting married.

Nadal is already married.

Cup8489
12-23-2011, 09:06 AM
Nadal is already married.

No, he isnt.

TheMusicLover
12-23-2011, 09:10 AM
Predicting the same as me, then?

I think so, yeah.
BTW I read some rumours (?) that Fed is planning to play a couple of exho's in South America (where he has never ever played before) at the tail end of the 2012 season. Should that be true, it surely feeds my suspicion that he might indeed call it quits at the end of 2012. I hope not.

Crazy man
12-23-2011, 10:33 AM
Sad thing nowadays is that, when I come to the boards and take a look, I can't really tell sarcastic/ironic/surrealistic posts from actual stupid posts.

Your posts are stupid, even you information under you intended to be funny is actually stupid. Sad thing when people like you who don't make any sort of contribution yet have the ability to post what is stupid from sarcasm.


OP, this will be my first serious post in this thread, just for the sake of it, because there is a lot of talk whether it's just because of other players improving............



Federer's footwork has took a major decline over the years, since 2007 even. It's natural, he's getting older. He's not moving like he did at 22 and never will. Most people don't actually understand Federer's footwork is essential since he relies on timing and positioning more than any other player in the game. When his footowork took a hit, so did his consistency with that FH, along with not being as fast as he was.



The other guys getting better excuse for Federer's lack of slams in the last couple of seasons is ridiculous; I say about three, maybe four players would make the all-time list in terms of techical skill, three of them reside in this current crop, one resided in both eras, and a guy who retired seasons ago. You can't compare eras.

OrangePower
12-23-2011, 11:15 AM
2010...his last great showing at a Slam as he won the AO and lost in the QF and SF stages for the 3 remaining Slams.

2011...made 1 final, lost the rest in the QF and SF stages.

Yet Federer and his fans still remain upbeat about his chances of winning more Slams and regaining the #1 ranking.:-?

I know he's in great health but how does he plan on winning anything with the likes of Djokovic and Nadal in his way? He can't beat them both back to back in a Slam. Even Federer fans know that.

Yes, Fed is getting very slightly worse every season as he ages.

What that means is that in the past, he was the favorite against anyone on hard court, and favorite against all except one player on clay.

Now, he is probably only 2nd or 3rd favorite (depending on the exact circumstances) on both clay and hard.

That's the bad news.

The good news is that there are still only 2 guys who he has <50% chance against on any given day. So all it takes is for those 2 to stumble before meeting Fed, or else for Fed to be having a good day / them to be having a bad day.

Bottom line is Fed is still a slam contender, although his probability % of winning any one particular event is less than it was a few years ago. He just needs a little more help / luck.

cc0509
12-23-2011, 11:38 AM
I think so, yeah.
BTW I read some rumours (?) that Fed is planning to play a couple of exho's in South America (where he has never ever played before) at the tail end of the 2012 season. Should that be true, it surely feeds my suspicion that he might indeed call it quits at the end of 2012. I hope not.

He is winding down that much is certain. I think end of 2012 or end of 2013 and that will be it for him. Just my feeling.

SoBad
12-23-2011, 07:34 PM
OP, you asked a good question. I thought about the same question while driving this late evening. I am a his fan but honestly, his chance of winning is a bit less than of his previous success. The fact is he is aging. New guns ( like Sobad mentioned in another thread) might have the better chance of winning slams.

Yes, the new guns are far more likely to win slams than federina going forward. And yes, Nadal and even Djokovic are much more likely to win slams. But I do disagree with the OP thesis, because the Fred has been improving every year so far. Fred played the best tennis of his career in 2011, but without the weak field it's impossible to win slams anymore with the limited talent.

TMF
12-23-2011, 08:28 PM
Federer doesn't necessarily have to beat them back to back. And nobody on here knows anything about future results.

True. Nadal lost in the QF at the AO in 2010 and 2011.

Past prime Fed is still a dangerous player on any given day. It will make it sweeter if he can win a slam in his 30s which some great players have failed

FlashFlare11
12-23-2011, 08:37 PM
True. Nadal lost in the QF at the AO in 2010 and 2011.

Past prime Fed is still a dangerous player on any given day. It will make it sweeter if he can win a slam in his 30s which some great players have failed

I don't understand the point of this discussion. Yes, Federer is not as good as he once was. He's 30. What did people expect? For him to get better? Once you're at the top, there's nowhere else to go but down.

kimbahpnam
12-23-2011, 10:13 PM
wasn't 2009 worse than 2010 for Rog?

TMF
12-23-2011, 11:17 PM
I don't understand the point of this discussion. Yes, Federer is not as good as he once was. He's 30. What did people expect? For him to get better? Once you're at the top, there's nowhere else to go but down.

Don't take those posters seriously when they say Fed is getting better. They are the same posters who said Nadal(5 years younger) has declined.

stringertom
12-23-2011, 11:33 PM
wasn't 2009 worse than 2010 for Rog?

IIRC, '09 was all four major finals with two wins...certainly better than '10's one major, one SF and two QF's, no?

FlashFlare11
12-23-2011, 11:36 PM
Don't take those posters seriously when they say Fed is getting better. They are the same posters who said Nadal(5 years younger) has declined.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure all of Crazy Man's posts were sarcastic.

It's things like the title of the thread that are kind of questionable. I just mean that there's nothing to argue about. Yes, he's getting worse. Not his fault, it happens to everyone eventually.

But thanks TMF!

Sentinel
03-19-2012, 07:34 AM
What happened to the Every poll result is "Federer in two" thread ?

Federer certainly getting worse for everyone else.

jackson vile
03-19-2012, 07:46 AM
What happened to the Every poll result is "Federer in two" thread ?

Federer certainly getting worse for everyone else.

You can't have the truth on this forum, he doesn't look so old anymore does he? Who know maybe all the padded excuses will stop.

merlinpinpin
03-19-2012, 07:48 AM
You can't have the truth on this forum, he doesn't look so old anymore does he? Who know maybe all the padded excuses will stop.

Of course they won't. Saturday, it was the wind. Last month, it was yet another broken foot while getting up from a chair. At the end of last year, it was being too-well rested. Oh wait...

jackson vile
03-19-2012, 07:54 AM
Of course they won't. Saturday, it was the wind. Last month, it was yet another broken foot while getting up from a chair. At the end of last year, it was being too-well rested. Oh wait...

The sad part is that the excuses combine seamlessly together, I'm sick or possibly not sick, my back is hurt or it isn't, my groin... Uh, Oh wait, it is TIRED! No no, it was just a match up issue, that is what it was, or the courts are all now slow as of just this year all of a sudden. LOL

interjim
03-19-2012, 08:18 AM
The sad part is that the excuses combine seamlessly together, I'm sick or possibly not sick, my back is hurt or it isn't, my groin... Uh, Oh wait, it is TIRED! No no, it was just a match up issue, that is what it was, or the courts are all now slow as of just this year all of a sudden. LOL

...you forgot having to leave the match -- in a really, really bad way -- at 4-5 in the second set, to drop the kids off at the pool.

zagor
03-19-2012, 08:45 AM
You can't have the truth on this forum, he doesn't look so old anymore does he? Who know maybe all the padded excuses will stop.

No but his tennis still looks very uninspired, subpeak, sloppy and flat, even more now than when he was 24.

The sad part is that the excuses combine seamlessly together, I'm sick or possibly not sick, my back is hurt or it isn't, my groin... Uh, Oh wait, it is TIRED! No no, it was just a match up issue, that is what it was, or the courts are all now slow as of just this year all of a sudden. LOL

Flu
Knee
Shoulder
Parent's divorce
Heat stroke
Pain in famous *****
Hurt stomach
Too tired
Too rusty
Combination of being too tired and too rusty
Wind
Surface too fast
Too many tournaments on HC
Schedule too long
Altitude
Burned by hot plate
Broken foot


Etc. etc.

SLD76
03-19-2012, 08:48 AM
No but his tennis still looks very uninspired, subpeak, sloppy and flat, even more now than when he was 24.



Flu
Knee
Shoulder
Parent's divorce
Heat stroke
Pain in famous *****
Hurt stomach
Too tired
Too rusty
Combination of being too tired and too rusty
Wind
Surface too fast
Too many tournaments on HC
Schedule too long
Altitude

Etc. etc.


dont forget a hot plate with ominous intent and the broken foot that wasnt really broken but kinda felt like it was broken..sorta.

joeri888
03-19-2012, 08:49 AM
The sad part is that the excuses combine seamlessly together, I'm sick or possibly not sick, my back is hurt or it isn't, my groin... Uh, Oh wait, it is TIRED! No no, it was just a match up issue, that is what it was, or the courts are all now slow as of just this year all of a sudden. LOL

Federer was sick. However, being the warrior he is, he beat both flu and Nadal in the same night.

Cup8489
03-19-2012, 08:50 AM
The sad part is that the excuses combine seamlessly together, I'm sick or possibly not sick, my back is hurt or it isn't, my groin... Uh, Oh wait, it is TIRED! No no, it was just a match up issue, that is what it was, or the courts are all now slow as of just this year all of a sudden. LOL

A bad back is a better excuse than a sore throat LOL

course, I'm sure you know alot about sore throats, right LOLville?

zagor
03-19-2012, 08:55 AM
dont forget a hot plate with ominous intent and the broken foot that wasnt really broken but kinda felt like it was broken..sorta.

Damn, will edit it now.

jackson vile
03-19-2012, 09:27 AM
...you forgot having to leave the match -- in a really, really bad way -- at 4-5 in the second set, to drop the kids off at the pool.

Now that would be a better excuse, at least it has value! Also, it would explain why his groin was so tired and he could not play anymore.

Some day Nadal will use that excuse as well since these guys love to use each others excuses so much.

FlashFlare11
03-19-2012, 09:35 AM
Now that would be a better excuse, at least it has value! Also, it would explain why his groin was so tired and he could not play anymore.

Some day Nadal will use that excuse as well since these guys love to use each others excuses so much.

Yes, it also seems that they've taken permission from Djokovic to use some excuses from his extensive list of mid-match retirements, should they require any at all.

Benhur
03-19-2012, 09:39 AM
Federer has been playing the best tennis of all the top 4 since the USO, by some margin, and his record shows it. In these last six months he's won 41 of the 43 matches he played, winning 6 tournaments including the YEC and two Masters 1000. Even if you include the USO, where he barely lost to the top player in the world after having match points, he is 46-3 since then. He is 2-1 on the number 2 since then, and you can check his record against the rest of the top 10 since then. Federer's autumn has not yet gone beyond an Indian Summer that right now looks particularly golden. In this, Federer is not different from many of the all time greats before him who were also perfectly capable of playing at or very near their best level at the age of 30 and beating the best in the business -- all claims to the crippling effects of his age notwithstanding. What all time greats? Well, in receding order: Agassi, Sampras, Lendl, Connors, Laver, Rosewall, Gonzalez...and the historians will give you more names. Unless of course you believe that tennis changes at lightning speed and what was possible yesterday is not possible now. It's a popular belief, based mostly on journalistic illusions.

mattennis
03-19-2012, 09:49 AM
Federer has been playing the best tennis of all the top 4 since the USO, by some margin, and his record shows it. In these last six months he's won 41 of the 43 matches he played, winning 6 tournaments including the YEC and two Masters 1000. Even if you include the USO, where he barely lost to the top player in the world after having match points, he is 46-3 since then. He is 2-1 on the number 2 since then, and you can check his record against the rest of the top 10 since then. Federer's autumn has not yet gone beyond an Indian Summer that right now looks particularly golden. In this, Federer is not different from many of the all time greats before him who were also perfectly capable of playing at or very near their best level at the age of 30 and beating the best in the business -- all claims to the crippling effects of his age notwithstanding. What all time greats? Well, in receding order: Agassi, Sampras, Lendl, Connors, Laver, Rosewall, Gonzalez...and the historians will give you more names. Unless of course you believe that tennis changes at lightning speed and what was possible yesterday is not possible now. It's a popular belief, based mostly on journalistic illusions.

Agassi, Connors, Lendl, Laver, Rosewall....Yes, all of them, but not Sampras.

Sampras played like crap after his Wimbledon'2000 title (i.e. since he was 29 ). He occasionally would play at a high level for one tournament or several matches here and there, but his "average" level went down abysmal after 29 years old.

Sentinel
03-19-2012, 10:14 AM
You can't have the truth on this forum, he doesn't look so old anymore does he? Who know maybe all the padded excuses will stop.
I can't believe you managed to turn an innocuous thread about Federer into a Nadal bashing one !

My bumping this thread had nothing to do with Nadal, just the funny title, I was actually looking for the "Federer in 2" thread.

nadalwon2012
03-19-2012, 10:19 AM
2009: Federer made the final of all 4 slams and won RG and WIM.
2010: Federer won the AO but lost in quarters of RG & WIM.
2011: Federer won no slams but dominated the indoor season.
2012: Federer won no slams.

dudeski
03-19-2012, 10:23 AM
Yes, the new guns are far more likely to win slams than federina going forward. And yes, Nadal and even Djokovic are much more likely to win slams. But I do disagree with the OP thesis, because the Fred has been improving every year so far. Fred played the best tennis of his career in 2011, but without the weak field it's impossible to win slams anymore with the limited talent.

Such a comedian this guy saying that 3 to 4 years past his prime 2011 Fed was playing his best tennis :) Now that's what we call comedy gold. Well done sir! Well done!

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e81/acerbus80/clapping.gif

jokinla
03-19-2012, 11:55 AM
Perhaps we jumped the gun with this thread.

aprilfool
03-19-2012, 12:28 PM
2010...his last great showing at a Slam as he won the AO and lost in the QF and SF stages for the 3 remaining Slams.

2011...made 1 final, lost the rest in the QF and SF stages.

Yet Federer and his fans still remain upbeat about his chances of winning more Slams and regaining the #1 ranking.:-?

I know he's in great health but how does he plan on winning anything with the likes of Djokovic and Nadal in his way? He can't beat them both back to back in a Slam. Even Federer fans know that.


Nothing personal but I do not trust your clairvoyant abilities (or lack thereof).

It's also ludicrous for you and others to declare that Federer can never beat Nadal and Novak back to back.

Just a week ago it was an act of delusional thinking to believe that he could get back to number 1, according to some of the deep thinkers here...

People have been writing him off since 2008. lol

KHSOLO
03-19-2012, 12:35 PM
I like todays Fed (2012) more than 2006-2007 Fed in terms of variety of play and maturity on the court

He improved his bh a lot and included the dropshot as a weapon, he is more experienced and even though he is playing people 4 or 5 years younger he still dominates them

Cheers for the New Fed !!

henryshli
03-20-2012, 10:59 AM
I think it might be easier for fed to win another slam than regaining no.1.

He might not even have to play either Djoko or Nadal to do it. If fed could beat Djoko on clay best of 5 sets just a year ago, I'm sure he is physically able to beat Djoko (or Rafa) at Wimbledon or uso.

jackson vile
03-20-2012, 12:29 PM
I like todays Fed (2012) more than 2006-2007 Fed in terms of variety of play and maturity on the court

He improved his bh a lot and included the dropshot as a weapon, he is more experienced and even though he is playing people 4 or 5 years younger he still dominates them

Cheers for the New Fed !!

You make an interesting point, Federer himself agrees with you. I think the major part was that he went out there and was not afraid of Nadal. Federer just out right intimidated by Nadal, Nadal scares him.

Federer does not need more excuses, he needs to just go out there an play. If he can keep playing like this who knows how far he can go. I have been saying this as he was racking up all those titles, and almost all his fans kept making old man excuses, and before he defeated Nadal it was match up excuses.

zagor
03-20-2012, 01:39 PM
You make an interesting point, Federer himself agrees with you.

If we take everything players said as a fact then we also have to agree that Fed would have been even more successful if the surfaces didn't slow down (a theory you continuously attack).

We'd also have to agree that teenage Fed beat a great playing Sampras at Wimbledon since by Pete's own words his tennis was much better in that period than at his youth yet you continuously use old age excuse for Sampras losing that match and give Fed zero credit.

Federer does not need more excuses, he needs to just go out there an play. If he can keep playing like this who knows how far he can go.

Yeah, who knows, he may even get to 16 slams one day, oh wait.

I have been saying this as he was racking up all those titles, and almost all his fans kept making old man excuses, and before he defeated Nadal it was match up excuses.

Since you keep going about the number of titles won like a broken record I'm sure we can also claim then that Nadal was at his peak in 2005 since that's the year in which he won the highest # of titles by some margin (11 titles) yet you continuously refer to Nadal in that period as an undeveloped player not yet at his peak.

P.S It still remains utterly disgusting and hypocritical as ever criticizing a certain group of fans for making excuses for a 30-31 year old player while at the same time making excuses for your 24-25 year old idol.

DjokovicForTheWin
03-20-2012, 01:46 PM
P.S It still remains utterly disgusting and hypocritical as ever criticizing a certain group of fans for making excuses for a 30-31 year old player while at the same time making excuses for your 24-25 year old idol.

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL, vileness pwned again! :twisted: