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ark_28
01-08-2012, 01:01 PM
Hi guys

Got a short video hee of my forehand

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCIJA2SD4Pk&context=C37f1a62ADOEgsToPDskInZuWfGMFthVKS9x2uz4xj

any feed back would be great

johndagolfer
01-08-2012, 01:08 PM
From that angle two things I would suggest are getting sideways by closing your stance a tad from the way open position you are hitting it in or turning your shoulders more.

Also you seem to be hitting the ball at your hip instead of out in front. I find that if you face the ball instead of coming into it turned you tend to do this a lot as well.

ark_28
01-08-2012, 01:13 PM
From that angle two things I would suggest are getting sideways by closing your stance a tad from the way open position you are hitting it in or turning your shoulders more.

Also you seem to be hitting the ball at your hip instead of out in front. I find that if you face the ball instead of coming into it turned you tend to do this a lot as well.

Thanks for the feed back mate, both of these things are very valid points that I will try and work on!

Any good drills to improve close the stance a bit more?

BevelDevil
01-08-2012, 01:30 PM
You seem to be closing your stance just fine, actually. A slightly open stance is fine (preferable, imo), even with an Eastern grip.

One thing I noticed is that you have a very short backswing. You may want to try taking the racket back further, which should help in generating pace and topspin. Of course there are benefits to keeping your backswing short, so you should think over whether you want to lengthen it.

I think you turn your hips and following through well.

tennis_pr0
01-08-2012, 01:35 PM
You have a short, compact swing which is fine, but one thing I do notice is you never lay your wrist back on your take back, and as a result you are loosing racquet head speed. When you take your racquet back, make sure you are holding the racquet very loose and let the wrist naturally lay back to the butt of the racquet is facing forward. You do look a little tense so that is probably why this is not naturally happening for you.

Also, preparing earlier would be helpful too. You are not getting your non dominant hand towards the ball, and you are also taking a lot of your balls too late, instead of more out in front where you will have more range of motion with your arm.

ark_28
01-08-2012, 01:49 PM
You seem to be closing your stance just fine, actually. A slightly open stance is fine (preferable, imo), even with an Eastern grip.

One thing I noticed is that you have a very short backswing. You may want to try taking the racket back further, which should help in generating pace and topspin. Of course there are benefits to keeping your backswing short, so you should think over whether you want to lengthen it.

I think you turn your hips and following through well.

Thanks buddy yes the swing is something that I have been told about I think the short swing I am used to because it helped me handle the pace of someof these young guys groundies :P

thanks for your tips :)

ark_28
01-08-2012, 01:51 PM
You have a short, compact swing which is fine, but one thing I do notice is you never lay your wrist back on your take back, and as a result you are loosing racquet head speed. When you take your racquet back, make sure you are holding the racquet very loose and let the wrist naturally lay back to the butt of the racquet is facing forward. You do look a little tense so that is probably why this is not naturally happening for you.

Also, preparing earlier would be helpful too. You are not getting your non dominant hand towards the ball, and you are also taking a lot of your balls too late, instead of more out in front where you will have more range of motion with your arm.

Very good points, I think I too hold the raquet too tight at times and it probably does cost me raquet head speed.

Thanks for your tips will also try and improve my preparation just like you say!

Otherwise you dont get the control and range that you want!

FearOfTheDark
01-08-2012, 02:03 PM
Like others have said, try hit the ball out in front of you compared with at the hips. Not like a metre in front (lol) but whatever feels comfortable. Also you hit pretty flat, that's fine, but try get a longer swing to generate some top spin.

ace_pace
01-08-2012, 02:31 PM
The others pretty much got the point. All you need is a bigger backswing and hit a bit more out in front. You get more topspin and pace that way.

ark_28
01-08-2012, 02:39 PM
Like others have said, try hit the ball out in front of you compared with at the hips. Not like a metre in front (lol) but whatever feels comfortable. Also you hit pretty flat, that's fine, but try get a longer swing to generate some top spin.

thanks buddy I will work on my take back and try to hit out more in front to get more top, I always been told I do hit veyr flat you are right! :)

@ace_pace thanks mate

and thanks to both of you for your feedback and taking the time to comment :)

johndagolfer
01-08-2012, 03:48 PM
You seem to be closing your stance just fine, actually. A slightly open stance is fine (preferable, imo), even with an Eastern grip.

One thing I noticed is that you have a very short backswing. You may want to try taking the racket back further, which should help in generating pace and topspin. Of course there are benefits to keeping your backswing short, so you should think over whether you want to lengthen it.

I think you turn your hips and following through well.

I by no means mean hit with a closed stance. I rarely do. In his video he seems to be approaching the ball face on. What I am suggesting he do is come into the ball a little more with his shoulders in line with his target.

This will let him wind up his shoulders into the ball more as well as hit the ball infront of him easier.

ark_28
01-08-2012, 04:56 PM
I by no means mean hit with a closed stance. I rarely do. In his video he seems to be approaching the ball face on. What I am suggesting he do is come into the ball a little more with his shoulders in line with his target.

This will let him wind up his shoulders into the ball more as well as hit the ball infront of him easier.

I do see what you are saying the shoulder rotation is something I am going to work on.

I do not really understand the USA ratingsbut I hear them talked about a lot I know you havent seen my whole game just forehand and some of you seen my serves and volleys, out of curirosity based on that what kind of rating would I likely to be there?

johndagolfer
01-08-2012, 05:09 PM
I do see what you are saying the shoulder rotation is something I am going to work on.

I do not really understand the USA ratingsbut I hear them talked about a lot I know you havent seen my whole game just forehand and some of you seen my serves and volleys, out of curirosity based on that what kind of rating would I likely to be there?

In my honest opinion you would do well in 3.0, but could grow in 3.5. I think all in all you have decent coordination.

The one thing I would work on while working on your forehand is your footwork. You seem to be shuffling while hitting the ball. I find the key to moving up besides having good fundamentals is learning where the ball is going to go, getting here, setting your feet(this is what you miss sometimes) and then making a good swing.

if you have a good swing but do not understand how to get into the correct position your good swing means nothing.

After rewatching your vid, I take back some of what I said. You do seem to get in decent position and have active feet. I would definitely just keep trying to improve technique in order to hit more in front and get more shoulder turn.

ark_28
01-08-2012, 05:20 PM
In my honest opinion you would do well in 3.0, but could grow in 3.5. I think all in all you have decent coordination.

The one thing I would work on while working on your forehand is your footwork. You seem to be shuffling while hitting the ball. I find the key to moving up besides having good fundamentals is learning where the ball is going to go, getting here, setting your feet(this is what you miss sometimes) and then making a good swing.

if you have a good swing but do not understand how to get into the correct position your good swing means nothing.

After rewatching your vid, I take back some of what I said. You do seem to get in decent position and have active feet. I would definitely just keep trying to improve technique in order to hit more in front and get more shoulder turn.

Thanks mate, footwoork is something I have been working on and staying on my toes, :-) key is working as you say on that technique getting contact out in front.
Thanks again for your tips :)_

BevelDevil
01-08-2012, 07:30 PM
What kind of grip do you use? Looks like an Eastern but I'm not sure.

I bring this up because how far out front you should make contact depends on your grip and also what type of forehand (straight arm vs. bent, pull vs. push).

SW grips and "pull" strokes are supposed to be hit further out front, whereas Eastern grips and/or push strokes should be more back. (You use a push style)

ark_28
01-09-2012, 01:03 AM
What kind of grip do you use? Looks like an Eastern but I'm not sure.

I bring this up because how far out front you should make contact depends on your grip and also what type of forehand (straight arm vs. bent, pull vs. push).

SW grips and "pull" strokes are supposed to be hit further out front, whereas Eastern grips and/or push strokes should be more back. (You use a push style)

Hi Bevel thanks for that I did not know about those different contact points for those 2 grips that is really interestinng!

Yes I use an eastern grip! so that means it should be a bit further back my contact point compare to the SW! But i still need to be a bit more in front of you saying its ok?

Cheetah
01-09-2012, 01:28 AM
work on getting that wrist laid back. it's not easy so consider yourself warned. it's going to take a lot of work to get that in your muscle memory. do a lot of shadow swinging at home. but when you get it you'll know because it's a completely different feel on impact.
watch this girl's expression when she finally gets this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZV7LVrRq_8

also you have to relax more. be loose. dont swing hard. swing fast. loose = fast. don't muscle the ball. transfer energy into the ball. visualize as follows: the energy should start from the ground. feet push on the gound, legs bend/straighten and turn. hips then turn, core and shoulders turn, arm follows then racket hits ball. in that order. that's the flow of energy. if you do this in a sequential coordinated manner then you'll see results.
here's a good vid that illustrates this regarding roddick's serve but still applies to fh: starting at 2:02 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLf_MJXzBVg&feature=related

ark_28
01-09-2012, 07:46 AM
work on getting that wrist laid back. it's not easy so consider yourself warned. it's going to take a lot of work to get that in your muscle memory. do a lot of shadow swinging at home. but when you get it you'll know because it's a completely different feel on impact.
watch this girl's expression when she finally gets this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZV7LVrRq_8

also you have to relax more. be loose. dont swing hard. swing fast. loose = fast. don't muscle the ball. transfer energy into the ball. visualize as follows: the energy should start from the ground. feet push on the gound, legs bend/straighten and turn. hips then turn, core and shoulders turn, arm follows then racket hits ball. in that order. that's the flow of energy. if you do this in a sequential coordinated manner then you'll see results.
here's a good vid that illustrates this regarding roddick's serve but still applies to fh: starting at 2:02 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLf_MJXzBVg&feature=related

Thanks for the tips and the videos are useful so thank you!

tennis_pr0
01-09-2012, 08:21 AM
Ark I want to clear something up for you because you seem like a guy who really wants to take advice and improve, and I admire and respect that. When you post a video on these forums, you are going to get so many people giving you various tips, which can be very overwhelming. Everyone could be doing something different with his or her forehand to make it better.

Just concentrate on the couple core points pointed out on here, such as staying more relaxed, which will allow your wrist to set back a little, staying looser which will naturally help your wrist to get laid back, and making contact more in front. Once you have these things, you will see improvements in your already pretty good forehand. Once you get comfortable with these things, I would then post another video, and then you could start to get a bit more technical to look for additional improvements.

Don't get overwhelmed with the replies, just take one thing at a time, get comfortable with it, and then take it from there.

ark_28
01-09-2012, 10:57 AM
Ark I want to clear something up for you because you seem like a guy who really wants to take advice and improve, and I admire and respect that. When you post a video on these forums, you are going to get so many people giving you various tips, which can be very overwhelming. Everyone could be doing something different with his or her forehand to make it better.

Just concentrate on the couple core points pointed out on here, such as staying more relaxed, which will allow your wrist to set back a little, staying looser which will naturally help your wrist to get laid back, and making contact more in front. Once you have these things, you will see improvements in your already pretty good forehand. Once you get comfortable with these things, I would then post another video, and then you could start to get a bit more technical to look for additional improvements.

Don't get overwhelmed with the replies, just take one thing at a time, get comfortable with it, and then take it from there.

Thanks buddy that makes a lot of sense! :-) and I appreciate it I am playing tonight will make a real effort to relax and get that wrist laid back!

Btw do you think from what you have seen I would be about a 3.0 I do not really know the American system but was curious :)

BevelDevil
01-09-2012, 01:43 PM
I guess I'm in the minority here, but seeing how you use an Eastern grip and how you keep your elbow tucked in, I think your contact point is fine and doesn't need to be moved out. If I'm wrong, I don't think it's by much. (It would help if we could see a camera angle from the other netpost).

Also, regarding the amount wrist layback at contact: The SW grip tends to require more layback than the Eastern. With the Eastern grip, I've seen people who hit well without laying back the wrist much. By the way, if you choose to contact without much layback, your contact point shouldn't be far out front.

Steffi Graf had a relatively far back contact point as well as a wrist that wasn't very laid back. Pete Sampras had two different types of forehand swings, and his reverse forehand contacted far back and without any wrist layback. Kimiko Date (very compact backswing) also contacts further back. There are probably other examples.


It's important to avoid unnecessary tinkering. Therefore, my assessment is that your contact point and layback (at contact) are fine. Again, if I'm wrong, it's not by much, and you should have other priorities.

I would focus on the other aspects of improvement mentioned here, such as footwork, turning the shoulders back more and possibly taking the racket back a little further. Once you work out those issues, then you might want to reconsider your contact point and wrist at contact.

By the way, I think your followthrough looks great, especially the hips.

ark_28
01-09-2012, 03:59 PM
I guess I'm in the minority here, but seeing how you use an Eastern grip and how you keep your elbow tucked in, I think your contact point is fine and doesn't need to be moved out. If I'm wrong, I don't think it's by much. (It would help if we could see a camera angle from the other netpost).

Also, regarding the amount wrist layback at contact: The SW grip tends to require more layback than the Eastern. With the Eastern grip, I've seen people who hit well without laying back the wrist much. By the way, if you choose to contact without much layback, your contact point shouldn't be far out front.

Steffi Graf had a relatively far back contact point as well as a wrist that wasn't very laid back. Pete Sampras had two different types of forehand swings, and his reverse forehand contacted far back and without any wrist layback. Kimiko Date (very compact backswing) also contacts further back. There are probably other examples.


It's important to avoid unnecessary tinkering. Therefore, my assessment is that your contact point and layback (at contact) are fine. Again, if I'm wrong, it's not by much, and you should have other priorities.

I would focus on the other aspects of improvement mentioned here, such as footwork, turning the shoulders back more and possibly taking the racket back a little further. Once you work out those issues, then you might want to reconsider your contact point and wrist at contact.

By the way, I think your followthrough looks great, especially the hips.



Thanks so much for all of your pointers much appreciated it's funny one of the pros at my club said he saw similarities in my forehand to that of Date.

I will work on the above and make another video in the near future to see how my improvement has come on.

Thanks for your encouragement it's nice to know that while there is a lot of work to do, I do have something to work with. :-)

tennis_pr0
01-09-2012, 08:23 PM
I don't know because I only saw you hit a few forehands.

tennis_pr0
01-09-2012, 08:30 PM
I guess I'm in the minority here, but seeing how you use an Eastern grip and how you keep your elbow tucked in, I think your contact point is fine and doesn't need to be moved out. If I'm wrong, I don't think it's by much. (It would help if we could see a camera angle from the other netpost).

Also, regarding the amount wrist layback at contact: The SW grip tends to require more layback than the Eastern. With the Eastern grip, I've seen people who hit well without laying back the wrist much. By the way, if you choose to contact without much layback, your contact point shouldn't be far out front.

Steffi Graf had a relatively far back contact point as well as a wrist that wasn't very laid back. Pete Sampras had two different types of forehand swings, and his reverse forehand contacted far back and without any wrist layback. Kimiko Date (very compact backswing) also contacts further back. There are probably other examples.


It's important to avoid unnecessary tinkering. Therefore, my assessment is that your contact point and layback (at contact) are fine. Again, if I'm wrong, it's not by much, and you should have other priorities.

I would focus on the other aspects of improvement mentioned here, such as footwork, turning the shoulders back more and possibly taking the racket back a little further. Once you work out those issues, then you might want to reconsider your contact point and wrist at contact.

By the way, I think your followthrough looks great, especially the hips.

With an eastern grip you certainly do lay back the wrist just as much as a full western grip. Del Potro uses an eastern grip or even further over towards continental, and he lays the wrist back completely. This is just an example, because there are many other players that do it as well.

In the OP's video, I did not see the racquet face being laid back at all, so suggesting laying it back would certainly allow him for more natural, easy racquet head speed. As far as the contact, again, whether it is an eastern or western grip, the contact is relatively the same. For classical strokes, like you saw back in the 70"s and 80"s that are used with a continental grip, then the contact point would be back further and a bit lower.

tennis_pr0
01-09-2012, 08:32 PM
The OP does have a bit of a WW forehand motion going, so I took the forehand that he already has and gave him pointers to improve that type of forehand.

BevelDevil
01-11-2012, 07:07 PM
I will work on the above and make another video in the near future to see how my improvement has come on.


Make sure you get the opposite camera angle when you film your forehand.



With an eastern grip you certainly do lay back the wrist just as much as a full western grip.

You can lay it back, but that doesn't mean you have to lay it back to have a good forehand.



Del Potro uses an eastern grip or even further over towards continental, and he lays the wrist back completely. This is just an example, because there are many other players that do it as well.

Del Potro does two things that make laying back the wrist (especially at contact) important: He hits with an almost straight arm (which also moves the contact point forward) and he has a subtle, yet significant, "pulling" motion like Federer's, which also moves the contact point further forward. To hit with such a forward contact point, you have to lay the wrist back.

However, the OP uses a very bent arm, and he has a "push" style stroke, which has very different mechanics from Delpo.




As far as the contact, again, whether it is an eastern or western grip, the contact is relatively the same. For classical strokes, like you saw back in the 70"s and 80"s that are used with a continental grip, then the contact point would be back further and a bit lower.

I suppose this is a good discussion point. The answer may depend on what type of swing is being made.

But it seems that if you have a type of forward swing that begins with the racket face facing downwards (which I think is the most common swing, but I'm not sure), then a W grip needs to be hit further out front, all else being equal.

This is because the racket face gradually opens up throughout the forward swing. Since the W grip has a more closed racket face, it will need to travel a longer distance to open up sufficiently. On the other hand, an Eastern grip starts off more open, so it needs less travel to open up the same amount.

To state this another way, if the continental grip needs to be hit further back, and if the Western grip needs to be hit further out front, then shouldn't the Eastern grip be hit somewhere in-between?

ark_28
05-09-2012, 05:59 AM
Here is another clip of some forehands in a point game we played!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq2izbjJ304&feature=g-upl