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View Full Version : Me hitting the wall, comments welcome!


tennisfan2k
01-09-2012, 11:41 AM
http://youtu.be/kARV5lzjgRM

DeShaun
01-09-2012, 11:46 AM
I think you could go very far. You look like someone who has gifted feet. You seem to make efficient steps instinctively.

HunterST
01-09-2012, 11:51 AM
http://youtu.be/kARV5lzjgRM

I don't know how much of this you are already trying for, but here's a good video about hitting on the wall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gILqUtN3Vwo

I'd be a little careful about taking such big cuts on the wall. I've heard several good coaches say that they try to discourage players from hitting hard against a wall because it can cause problems.

tennisfan2k
01-09-2012, 12:15 PM
Thanks. Guess I am too old to go very far, LOL

I think you could go very far. You look like someone who has gifted feet. You seem to make efficient steps instinctively.

tennisfan2k
01-09-2012, 12:16 PM
Thanks, nice video! I will try that next time.

I don't know how much of this you are already trying for, but here's a good video about hitting on the wall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gILqUtN3Vwo

I'd be a little careful about taking such big cuts on the wall. I've heard several good coaches say that they try to discourage players from hitting hard against a wall because it can cause problems.

rkelley
01-09-2012, 12:22 PM
I don't know how much of this you are already trying for, but here's a good video about hitting on the wall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gILqUtN3Vwo

I'd be a little careful about taking such big cuts on the wall. I've heard several good coaches say that they try to discourage players from hitting hard against a wall because it can cause problems.

As a guy who likes to hit on the wall for practice, that wall video really didn't work for me. I agree with some of it, like moving your feet and not just letting the ball dribble to back to you, but generally one of the best uses for the wall is to drill form. Set-up in perfect form with the ball in the correct location relative to your body, swing through correctly with proper weight swift and foot work, correct follow through, etc. The guy on the video could use a bit of work on his form because it's actually not that outstanding.

Focusing on consistency before form, like when Mr. Wallvideo talks about hitting 50 forehands in a row without emphasizing the form, seems like a good path to pusherville. If you're not hitting with good form, then you're just drilling bad form.

The square target doesn't work for me either. Without good form, and then the ability to repetively implement good form which will lead to good consistency, it seems like the target would just promote pushing the ball to the target at the expense of form.

I however practice taking full cuts at the ball, emphasizing proper form. I'll typically pop a couple of balls in an hour on the wall. But the form has to be good and the shots would have landed in (you can tell if they would have been in by how they hit the wall). If it's not then I'll slow it down and fix the form errors, and then bring the pace back up.

Also the best walls are the solid concrete ones.

HunterST
01-09-2012, 01:04 PM
As a guy who likes to hit on the wall for practice, that wall video really didn't work for me. I agree with some of it, like moving your feet and not just letting the ball dribble to back to you, but generally one of the best uses for the wall is to drill form. Set-up in perfect form with the ball in the correct location relative to your body, swing through correctly with proper weight swift and foot work, correct follow through, etc. The guy on the video could use a bit of work on his form because it's actually not that outstanding.

Focusing on consistency before form, like when Mr. Wallvideo talks about hitting 50 forehands in a row without emphasizing the form, seems like a good path to pusherville. If you're not hitting with good form, then you're just drilling bad form.

The square target doesn't work for me either. Without good form, and then the ability to repetively implement good form which will lead to good consistency, it seems like the target would just promote pushing the ball to the target at the expense of form.

I however practice taking full cuts at the ball, emphasizing proper form. I'll typically pop a couple of balls in an hour on the wall. But the form has to be good and the shots would have landed in (you can tell if they would have been in by how they hit the wall). If it's not then I'll slow it down and fix the form errors, and then bring the pace back up.

Also the best walls are the solid concrete ones.

The guy in the video is a 5.0 and former college player. His form is quite good. I'm not sure where you get that he is advocating bad form on these shots. That seems like a given.

The target is there to insure that there is some purpose to the hitting and the player is not just spraying the ball wherever he feels like.

Where you around when Bungalo Bill posted? If not, he was a highly respected poster who was USPTA certified. He strongly discouraged taking big cuts against the wall and said he would make any player he saw doing it give him 50 push ups and run some laps. I'm no expert, but that turned me off from it.

rkelley
01-09-2012, 03:40 PM
The guy in the video is a 5.0 and former college player. His form is quite good. I'm not sure where you get that he is advocating bad form on these shots. That seems like a given.

The target is there to insure that there is some purpose to the hitting and the player is not just spraying the ball wherever he feels like.

Where you around when Bungalo Bill posted? If not, he was a highly respected poster who was USPTA certified. He strongly discouraged taking big cuts against the wall and said he would make any player he saw doing it give him 50 push ups and run some laps. I'm no expert, but that turned me off from it.

IMO, which you're welcome to disagree with, the form he displayed in the video isn't that good. It's not the terrible, but it's not something I'd tell someone to emulate. Now here's a video of someone hitting on a wall with good form:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHbatpT1Fy0

Notice the early racquet prep, the good and consistent set-up, good foot work, good follow through, and hitting from both sides. And you don't have to be Agassi to do this either. The ball coming off the wall isn't that fast and won't have a bunch of heavy spin like it will against a real player. You know where it's going to go when it leaves your racquet. It's easier than playing with a real player other than the shorter time for setting up the next shot. However I'm a big believer that if you can hit with good, high level form against a wall, it's a good step to doing it against a real player. If you can't do it against a wall, then you probably can't do it against a real player.

The guy in the video didn't talk about form. And then he demonstrates medicore form when he does hit (late prep, OK at best set-up, lazy foot work). Again, IMO the form piece is one of the biggest benefits you can get from a wall. Emphasizing consistency, or placement, and not discussing form will tend to make you really good at hitting against a wall. However it's unlikely to translate very well to hitting with a person, where there will be more pace, more spin, and unexpected placement, which is ultimately the point of practicing on a wall.

As far as Bungalo Bill's recommendations, I'd guess that they would be in reacation to someone just slapping a ball at a wall really hard without using the high level form that you would want to use on the court. Do you know his specific reasons?

HunterST
01-09-2012, 06:43 PM
IMO, which you're welcome to disagree with, the form he displayed in the video isn't that good. It's not the terrible, but it's not something I'd tell someone to emulate. Now here's a video of someone hitting on a wall with good form:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHbatpT1Fy0

Notice the early racquet prep, the good and consistent set-up, good foot work, good follow through, and hitting from both sides. And you don't have to be Agassi to do this either. The ball coming off the wall isn't that fast and won't have a bunch of heavy spin like it will against a real player. You know where it's going to go when it leaves your racquet. It's easier than playing with a real player other than the shorter time for setting up the next shot. However I'm a big believer that if you can hit with good, high level form against a wall, it's a good step to doing it against a real player. If you can't do it against a wall, then you probably can't do it against a real player.

The guy in the video didn't talk about form. And then he demonstrates medicore form when he does hit (late prep, OK at best set-up, lazy foot work). Again, IMO the form piece is one of the biggest benefits you can get from a wall. Emphasizing consistency, or placement, and not discussing form will tend to make you really good at hitting against a wall. However it's unlikely to translate very well to hitting with a person, where there will be more pace, more spin, and unexpected placement, which is ultimately the point of practicing on a wall.

As far as Bungalo Bill's recommendations, I'd guess that they would be in reacation to someone just slapping a ball at a wall really hard without using the high level form that you would want to use on the court. Do you know his specific reasons?

Because when you hit with topspin the balls come back shorter, and you end up hitting harder and flatter to make the balls come back off of one bounce. He recommended hitting off of two bounces like Ian does in the video.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on his form. Again, he's a 5.0 and former college player from a top DII school, so it has to be pretty good. You say it's bad because he has late prep and lazy foot work, but he hits the ball right in the desired contact point with good balance every time, so I can't quite see your point.

I think everyone will agree that the wall is for practicing good form. Hitting has hard as you can against a wall discourages proper technique, however.

NLBwell
01-09-2012, 07:03 PM
Nice that you can actually hit a slice backhand. It's better than your topspin BH.

rkelley
01-09-2012, 10:45 PM
Because when you hit with topspin the balls come back shorter, and you end up hitting harder and flatter to make the balls come back off of one bounce. He recommended hitting off of two bounces like Ian does in the video.

Actually topspin will make the balls bounce higher off the wall, so the bounce point will be further out from the wall. Slice will make the balls bounce short. Think about the rotation of the ball with slice and topspin when it hits the wall. It matters less on a wall with a smooth, slick surface. I always hit with one bounce.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on his form. Again, he's a 5.0 and former college player from a top DII school, so it has to be pretty good. You say it's bad because he has late prep and lazy foot work, but he hits the ball right in the desired contact point with good balance every time, so I can't quite see your point.

Fair enough. Agree to disagree.

I think everyone will agree that the wall is for practicing good form. Hitting has hard as you can against a wall discourages proper technique, however.

I'll disagree with this statement too. Hitting as hard as you can, with high level form, will help you develop that high level form. You need to hit with the topspin and placement that you would really need to keep the ball in, and admittedly the big difference is that if you're really hitting that hard in a rally, your opponent is hitting hard back at you, with lots of spin that makes the ball jump all around and messes with your timing. Still, doing it at the wall is the first step, IMO.

HunterST
01-10-2012, 07:12 AM
Actually topspin will make the balls bounce higher off the wall, so the bounce point will be further out from the wall. Slice will make the balls bounce short. Think about the rotation of the ball with slice and topspin when it hits the wall. It matters less on a wall with a smooth, slick surface. I always hit with one bounce.



Fair enough. Agree to disagree.



I'll disagree with this statement too. Hitting as hard as you can, with high level form, will help you develop that high level form. You need to hit with the topspin and placement that you would really need to keep the ball in, and admittedly the big difference is that if you're really hitting that hard in a rally, your opponent is hitting hard back at you, with lots of spin that makes the ball jump all around and messes with your timing. Still, doing it at the wall is the first step, IMO.

Yes, I know that the topspin makes the ball go up once it hits the wall. However, if the wall is flat and not on an angle the ball will go down more then it would in real play. This causes the player to hit it harder so that it will come back to them better. Thanks for the clarification.

Do you think Vince Spadea is hitting as hard as he can in this video? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWnx-WXq0T8

The wall is best used for working on consistency and grooving strokes. The design of a wall makes it a bad candidate for practicing power. I've never heard a coach advocate hitting big shots against a wall. That doesn't mean there hasn't been, obviously, and I'd be happy to consider any professional opinions you happen to know of.

HunterST
01-10-2012, 07:14 AM
OP,

Something I noticed about your hitting, I believe you're too upright in your stance. You have some knee bend, but your spine is basically straight up and down. You should try sticking your butt out a little to get in a more athletic stance.

rkelley
01-10-2012, 07:31 AM
Do you think Vince Spadea is hitting as hard as he can in this video? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWnx-WXq0T8

The wall is best used for working on consistency and grooving strokes. The design of a wall makes it a bad candidate for practicing power. I've never heard a coach advocate hitting big shots against a wall. That doesn't mean there hasn't been, obviously, and I'd be happy to consider any professional opinions you happen to know of.

No, I think Vince could bring a bit more heat if he wanted to.

No professional opinions I know of. Again, we can agree to disagree. It's cool.