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RafatheChamp
01-09-2012, 02:07 PM
Does anyone have any advice for a junior who repetitively double faults. I can hit second serves, but lately I miss more than I hit them in. Any advice?

NJ1
01-09-2012, 02:11 PM
Are they hitting the net or sailing long?

Practice practice practice, not as allen Iverson would say. A lot of it is mental, for me I imagine I still have another serve coming and that keeps me loose. Also, try a higher percentage 2nd serve if you aren't already, like a slice which has good net clearance if hitting the net is your issue.

maxpotapov
01-09-2012, 02:13 PM
Does anyone have any advice for a junior who repetitively double faults. I can hit second serves, but lately I miss more than I hit them in. Any advice?

Don't hit second serves, hit two first serves.
It will help you to fix your serve technique and get confidence, you will see how your percentage will climb up.
Trying to get the ball in at any cost won't do you any good - you will mess up your stroke even more and your percentage will go down like you say it did.

gregor.b
01-09-2012, 02:14 PM
Does anyone have any advice for a junior who repetitively double faults. I can hit second serves, but lately I miss more than I hit them in. Any advice?

Practice. You need to hit the serve (second) with authority each and every time even if it is with more spin. The harder you hit the serve with spin, the more control you actually have. Do not baby it or you will have little or no control.

TheBoom
01-09-2012, 04:02 PM
I had the same problem. Basically i focused on improving the ball toss and repeating the motion of my serve as much as i could so i could get familiar with it. Also i would make your second serve your first should you start double faulting too much

RafatheChamp
01-09-2012, 04:23 PM
Are they hitting the net or sailing long?

Practice practice practice, not as allen Iverson would say. A lot of it is mental, for me I imagine I still have another serve coming and that keeps me loose. Also, try a higher percentage 2nd serve if you aren't already, like a slice which has good net clearance if hitting the net is your issue.

I am mostly sailing them long, but thanks for the advice. My second serve is a kick, don't know whether high/low percentage it is.

RafatheChamp
01-09-2012, 04:26 PM
Don't hit second serves, hit two first serves.
It will help you to fix your serve technique and get confidence, you will see how your percentage will climb up.
Trying to get the ball in at any cost won't do you any good - you will mess up your stroke even more and your percentage will go down like you say it did.

Thank you, I will try this.

chay337
01-09-2012, 04:29 PM
Don't hit second serves, hit two first serves.
It will help you to fix your serve technique and get confidence, you will see how your percentage will climb up.
Trying to get the ball in at any cost won't do you any good - you will mess up your stroke even more and your percentage will go down like you say it did.
Anyone else agree with this?

RafatheChamp
01-09-2012, 04:33 PM
Thanks everyone, I have a lot to work on. I am playing a tournament in 2 weeks and after my hit today with my buddy, who I usually beat like 6-0/1, we went to a tie breaker in the set, which took us about an hour and a half. Which as you can probably tell, shot my confidence. Led to being broken every game.

charliefedererer
01-09-2012, 07:09 PM
Anyone else agree with this?

No, I don't agree with "hitting two first serves".

I also doubt the OP has gotten the specific advice so far that will help him.

For that, he will have to post a video to see if there is a technique problem.

Prime suspects: not an accurate/reproducible toss, not enough vertical shoulder over shoulder action, not "pointing the chest up at the ball", not enough "backward lean" from the knees with the heels way off the court.

qwanta
01-09-2012, 07:38 PM
Get a ball hopper with 75 or so balls in it and use that to practice. This way you can hit one serve after another from the same exact position and make small adjustments if it goes in the net or long until you are consistent.

HunterST
01-09-2012, 08:02 PM
Go to a court and practice hitting as high over the net as you possibly can. Don't worry about where the ball goes or if it goes into the service box. In fact, try to hit past the service box with high net clearance.

This will get you hitting up and out on the ball, which is crucial for a second serve.

This is the best drill I know for the second serve, and it helped me cut my double faults way, way down.

netguy
01-09-2012, 08:33 PM
Hitting long most of the time as you said could mean that your toss is too close to your body. I would try to place the ball a bit more in front of your body. The other way around if you are hitting into the net a lot.
Post a video, so we can really help you.

maxpotapov
01-09-2012, 10:12 PM
No, I don't agree with "hitting two first serves".

I also doubt the OP has gotten the specific advice so far that will help him.

For that, he will have to post a video to see if there is a technique problem.

Prime suspects: not an accurate/reproducible toss, not enough vertical shoulder over shoulder action, not "pointing the chest up at the ball", not enough "backward lean" from the knees with the heels way off the court.

And those prime suspects that you mentioned are exactly the reason why I give an advice like that. OP is clearly a developing player and nothing ruins the technique more, than trying just to get the ball in at any cost. It's time to focus solely on the technique, and percentage will follow, but second serve sets a developing player into "just get the ball in" mindset. Plus, if it's psychological problem, one will not overcome it by trying harder "just to get the ball in", this mental focus will be counterproductive. Instead player needs to focus more on the process, and "first serve" mentality makes it easier.
As first serve percentage goes up, and player hits first serve twice, double faults percentage will definitely go down and confidence will improve. Once confidence improves, we don't have psychological problem any more.

sandiegoman
01-09-2012, 10:18 PM
Spend all of your time learning a good kick serve and master it. I stopped practicing my flat serve for a few months and just focused on a kick serve. It really helped my game.

It's a strange concept to hit up on the serve, but it just takes time and patience.

drkplayer122
01-09-2012, 10:44 PM
I completely agree with everyone when they say practice as much as you can. I also had a problem with double faults where my kicks were sailing long. I did some reading and I formed a hypothesis that you have to "attack" the ball just like you would "attack" your first serve. This will help you get more topspin on the serve and will hopefully get the ball in the court.

rkelley
01-09-2012, 11:08 PM
No, I don't agree with "hitting two first serves".

I also doubt the OP has gotten the specific advice so far that will help him.

For that, he will have to post a video to see if there is a technique problem.

Prime suspects: not an accurate/reproducible toss, not enough vertical shoulder over shoulder action, not "pointing the chest up at the ball", not enough "backward lean" from the knees with the heels way off the court.

I'm with Charlie. You need a strong, reliable top/slice second serve that you can hit with consistency, placement, pace, and spin. Two first serves is not the way to go. Fix that top/slice serve.

As far as specifics, again I'm with Charlie on likely suspects, but we need a video to say anything.

maxpotapov
01-09-2012, 11:12 PM
I'm with Charlie. You need a strong, reliable top/slice second serve that you can hit with consistency, placement, pace, and spin. Two first serves is not the way to go. Fix that top/slice serve.

OK, then. I can change my advice to "hit two second serves until you get it right" ;)

syc23
01-10-2012, 03:33 AM
One thing I've found useful is when practicing serves I alternate practicing a flat then followed by a slice/kick. That gets you in the groove and it does help when it comes to matches. There are times when I practice loads of flats then slices and kicks but it helps to mix because that's what you will be doing in a match.

HunterST
01-10-2012, 06:46 AM
I'm sure the OP knows he needs a good topspin serve. The question is how to get one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyIcG56k0JE

that's the best way.

Power Player
01-10-2012, 07:20 AM
I agree with hitting 2 second serves. What it does is makes your spin serve into a grooved weapon because you are just focusing on that both times instead of missing a flat and than just trying to get your next serve in.

Once you get on a roll you can slide in your flat now and then.

The more of a groove you get in, the more you slide in your flats. If you start missing, pull back to second serves only again and work on placement.

LuckyR
01-10-2012, 07:21 AM
Does anyone have any advice for a junior who repetitively double faults. I can hit second serves, but lately I miss more than I hit them in. Any advice?

A couple of things. If you are making < 50% of your second serves, then in fact you can't hit them, since they need to be > 90% in. Secondly, since you are hitting kick serves and they are going long, it is clear you are falling into the typical trap of easing up on the racquet head speed (after many DFs) to try to increase your consistancy. This is a common error. In fact, you need to hit them harder, not less hard. An increase in racquet head speed will result in more spin which will get those flatly (relatively) struck long balls to spin in.

Good luck.

Ramon
01-10-2012, 07:37 AM
I agree with hitting 2 second serves. What it does is makes your spin serve into a grooved weapon because you are just focusing on that both times instead of missing a flat and than just trying to get your next serve in.

Once you get on a roll you can slide in your flat now and then.

The more of a groove you get in, the more you slide in your flats. If you start missing, pull back to second serves only again and work on placement.

I pretty much agree with this if you're double faulting a lot. The topspin serve is the safest serve. Practice the topspin serve as much as possible and use it as your primary serve until you've almost eliminated double faults. Your second serve motion can be the same as your first serve but with a little more spin. Once you are so grooved that you hardly ever double fault, you can add more variety to your first serve.

RafatheChamp
01-10-2012, 11:20 AM
Thank you everyone! I will hit next Thursday or Friday, school and all, so I will work hard on all of this.