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thug the bunny
01-09-2012, 06:21 PM
Since there is an uber-techincal thread on table tennis, let's see how technical we can get on the golf swing.

I spent the first 20 years golfing following tv advice about transferring your weight onto your right leg (for righties of course) during the backswing. This was given cool names like 'loading the right side' and such. By doing so, the head and center of gravity in the torso would move 1 or 2 inches to the right. Then, you were supposed to re-transfer that weight back to the inside of the left foot on the downswing. OK, it worked for me on and off enough to bring me to an 8 index in league play.

However, after going back to a more casual playing schedule, I found I started a disturbing pattern of fat, thin, fat, thin, especially with iron play. After getting totally frustrated, I decided I was going to just keep my weight forward to insure clean ball-first contact. It worked. Then a couple years later, I'm watching Golf Channel, and I see a commercial for the 'Stack and Tilt' method, and I'm like, hey! I invented that! Of course, I didn't invent it...I had seen some pros talking about how their dad or coach would hold the top of their heads in their hands during a swing to mitigate excessive lateral motion, and of course ignored it at the time. So now I'm hitting pretty pure and should get back to a nice low index now that I have joined my local club and will be putting in plenty of hitting time.

Anyone else have any golf swing epiphanies? Feel free to get nice and technical.

aimr75
01-09-2012, 06:42 PM
My golf epiphany was that i realised i completely suck at it and should never pick up a golf club again :)

This was my swing when i was trying to improve it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0ouF21AbR4

I could never get it consistent enough and didnt have the time to dedicate to it..

I guess if you want to get into technical golf stuff, you should check out the Brian Manzella forum

thug the bunny
01-09-2012, 07:06 PM
Umm, your swing looks great. Good position at address and at the top, good pause and tempo, nice plane into the ball, and from the flight of the (foam?) ball, it would have been a strong shot with a fade. Maybe just need a little more right hand release. Are you testing me?

r2473
01-09-2012, 09:20 PM
I played a lot of baseball growing up.

Now, we all know that you shouldn't use a baseball swing in golf, right? So when I first started playing golf, I tried to swing like "a golfer".

Then I read somewhere how Ben Hogan compared his swing to Ted Williams. I even saw a video of Hogan talking about it and changing the plane of his golf swing step by step until he was on the same plane as a baseball player. Then they showed Hogans swing next to Williams. They looked THE EXACT SAME.

So now I use my baseball swing in golf and it works great. My short game really sucks, but my full swing on both woods and irons is pretty good and consistent. I'm a pretty decent "ranger rick" or "Happy Gilmore", but a horrible golfer.

pushing_wins
01-09-2012, 10:46 PM
My golf epiphany was that i realised i completely suck at it and should never pick up a golf club again :)

This was my swing when i was trying to improve it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0ouF21AbR4

I could never get it consistent enough and didnt have the time to dedicate to it..

I guess if you want to get into technical golf stuff, you should check out the Brian Manzella forum

great swing. keep that spin angle for a few frame longer on the follow through, it would look even better.

pushing_wins
01-09-2012, 10:55 PM
I played a lot of baseball growing up.

Now, we all know that you shouldn't use a baseball swing in golf, right? So when I first started playing golf, I tried to swing like "a golfer".

Then I read somewhere how Ben Hogan compared his swing to Ted Williams. I even saw a video of Hogan talking about it and changing the plane of his golf swing step by step until he was on the same plane as a baseball player. Then they showed Hogans swing next to Williams. They looked THE EXACT SAME.

So now I use my baseball swing in golf and it works great. My short game really sucks, but my full swing on both woods and irons is pretty good and consistent. I'm a pretty decent "ranger rick" or "Happy Gilmore", but a horrible golfer.

the key to the swing - baseball, golf, tennis forehand - is to hit against a strong left side. it falls on deaf ears when i bring this up on tips and instructions. tennis players cant seem to grasp this concept and hence a "i cant hit a forehand winner" thread is started everyday.

adamX012
01-13-2012, 06:54 PM
hey, OP, impressive thread...

It seems to me you are a multi-sport player, aren't you. Played mini golf at college. I am not a good player. well, if there is chance, love to learn some tips from you. aim at summer in midaltantic area to hit some balls and hang out. interested? sounds like we are communicating at the same level.

Maui19
01-14-2012, 03:52 AM
Since there is an uber-techincal thread on table tennis, let's see how technical we can get on the golf swing.

I spent the first 20 years golfing following tv advice about transferring your weight onto your right leg (for righties of course) during the backswing. This was given cool names like 'loading the right side' and such. By doing so, the head and center of gravity in the torso would move 1 or 2 inches to the right. Then, you were supposed to re-transfer that weight back to the inside of the left foot on the downswing. OK, it worked for me on and off enough to bring me to an 8 index in league play.

However, after going back to a more casual playing schedule, I found I started a disturbing pattern of fat, thin, fat, thin, especially with iron play. After getting totally frustrated, I decided I was going to just keep my weight forward to insure clean ball-first contact. It worked. Then a couple years later, I'm watching Golf Channel, and I see a commercial for the 'Stack and Tilt' method, and I'm like, hey! I invented that! Of course, I didn't invent it...I had seen some pros talking about how their dad or coach would hold the top of their heads in their hands during a swing to mitigate excessive lateral motion, and of course ignored it at the time. So now I'm hitting pretty pure and should get back to a nice low index now that I have joined my local club and will be putting in plenty of hitting time.

Anyone else have any golf swing epiphanies? Feel free to get nice and technical.

I'm not sure it is an epiphany, but I know that if you have technically sound mechanics, you don't need as much practice as when you have a "timing-based" swing. With good mechanics, your bad shots will never be really really bad. With a timing-based swing, you will have days where you play terribly.

dParis
01-15-2012, 10:59 AM
My golf epiphany was that i realised i completely suck at it and should never pick up a golf club again :)

This was my swing when i was trying to improve it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0ouF21AbR4

I could never get it consistent enough and didnt have the time to dedicate to it..

I guess if you want to get into technical golf stuff, you should check out the Brian Manzella forum
Agree you have a nice plane and tempo seems proper. Most of the parts moving where and when they should.

A couple of minor issues I think I see:

You flare open the clubface a bit too much early in your takeaway and I think it stays open - slightly.

Your right foot is too open. It should be more square at address. When your right heel comes up, there is a lot of rotation of the foot.

I think the end result, caused by these two issues, would be a shot out to the right. A strong fade, at least, or a slight push/slice.

Rock Strongo
01-15-2012, 03:33 PM
My epiphany is that my feet look really goofy and that I swing way too fast; I also can't get up my left shoulder far enough so my swing is really short. Did I mention that I slice incredibly at times?

Looks like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJZKr8tqJ9A , I don't have a handicap yet but I'm planning to get that sorted out this year.

thug the bunny
01-15-2012, 07:22 PM
My epiphany is that my feet look really goofy and that I swing way too fast; I also can't get up my left shoulder far enough so my swing is really short. Did I mention that I slice incredibly at times?

Looks like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJZKr8tqJ9A , I don't have a handicap yet but I'm planning to get that sorted out this year.

Well...not that bad. Start with establishing good fundamentals: posture and grip. IMO too vertical overall. Try a little more bend in the knees, and stick out the butt to maintain a straight back. Then, bring your hands in closer to your body so your arms hang straight down from your shoulders. Can't really tell, but I think your left hand should be stronger (rotated more on top of the grip so you can see 3 knuckles).

Now, about the swing, flatten out the swing plane (more around the body v.s. over the head), and most important, DON'T SWAY! You can see your sway roll the weight to the outside of your right foot during the takeback. Think of your spine as a metal rod around which you rotate your shoulders and hips back and through WITHOUT any lateral movement. This, combined with good posture and grip should mitigate the dreaded slice.

Fearsome Forehand
01-15-2012, 07:42 PM
Actually tennis helped my golf game considerably in that tennis helped me understand the effect of spins and how to induce spins.

My personal epiphany golf-wise was understanding swing plane and the importance of staying on plane.

Rock Strongo
01-15-2012, 07:51 PM
Well...not that bad. Start with establishing good fundamentals: posture and grip. IMO too vertical overall. Try a little more bend in the knees, and stick out the butt to maintain a straight back. Then, bring your hands in closer to your body so your arms hang straight down from your shoulders. Can't really tell, but I think your left hand should be stronger (rotated more on top of the grip so you can see 3 knuckles).

Now, about the swing, flatten out the swing plane (more around the body v.s. over the head), and most important, DON'T SWAY! You can see your sway roll the weight to the outside of your right foot during the takeback. Think of your spine as a metal rod around which you rotate your shoulders and hips back and through WITHOUT any lateral movement. This, combined with good posture and grip should mitigate the dreaded slice.

Well... that could be because I'm a lefty playing righty, and the swaying, well I don't know about that but I'm trying to work on that. It's not that easy to be out on the range in this weather!:)

adamX012
01-15-2012, 07:54 PM
How come, no one comments on Mini-golf?

dParis
01-17-2012, 07:03 AM
Well... that could be because I'm a lefty playing righty, and the swaying, well I don't know about that but I'm trying to work on that. It's not that easy to be out on the range in this weather!:)
Very good advice from TtB in post #11. Take all of it.

This will help with the swaying: Keep your weight on the insteps of your feet from address to impact. You'll still transfer your weight to the right foot on the backswing, but the weight must be loaded on the right instep - and you'll transfer weight to your left foot as the club comes down to the ball, but again, the weight must transfer to the instep of your left foot.

Hold, or think of holding, a soccer ball or basket ball between your knees without letting it drop. It will be easier and more consistent once you slow your swing/tempo.

athiker
01-17-2012, 07:58 AM
My epiphany with golf, and tennis helped me with this, is to keep a "calm" head...much like the OP described. It cures a lot of ills by creating focus on the contact point with no "peeking" and all the problems that causes...golf, tennis, soccer, punting/kicking in football, etc. I try to think not so much eye on the ball but head on the ball (or contact point). I think 90% of my errors I can trace back to failure at this. Also helps with overall balance I think.

The other more golf specific epiphany isn't so much mechanical other than getting the mechanics worked out in practice. It is to get off the driving range and find a place where you can practice your short game. Some ranges have a pitching/chipping green (not just a putting green) with traps, etc...my game improved immensely when I found one. Pitching and chipping to the cup from both the grass and the sand is very under practiced IMHO. Easiest and quickest way to take a stroke off most holes for the average golfer if you can get to 1 putt range more often than not. Putting is also under practiced, though most at least take some warm-up putts prior to teeing off.

thug the bunny
01-17-2012, 08:27 AM
My epiphany with golf, and tennis helped me with this, is to keep a "calm" head...much like the OP described. It cures a lot of ills by creating focus on the contact point with no "peeking" and all the problems that causes...golf, tennis, soccer, punting/kicking in football, etc. I try to think not so much eye on the ball but head on the ball (or contact point). I think 90% of my errors I can trace back to failure at this. Also helps with overall balance I think.

The other more golf specific epiphany isn't so much mechanical other than getting the mechanics worked out in practice. It is to get off the driving range and find a place where you can practice your short game. Some ranges have a pitching/chipping green (not just a putting green) with traps, etc...my game improved immensely when I found one. Pitching and chipping to the cup from both the grass and the sand is very under practiced IMHO. Easiest and quickest way to take a stroke off most holes for the average golfer if you can get to 1 putt range more often than not. Putting is also under practiced, though most at least take some warm-up putts prior to teeing off.

Agree with all. My standard rant in TT is 'watching the ball', and as SystemicAnomaly always points out, this really just aids in keeping the head calm and 'on' the ball. I don't think there are any sports where this is more important than tennis and golf.

And yes, everyone put down the damn driver and practice your pitching, putting and sand shots. As ath says, you can easily drop 3 - 20 strokes with nary a change in swing mechanics!

Sorry to go off-topic, but what parts of the AT have you covered, and what parts are your fav's? I used to be an avid hiker back in the day. Miss it alot..

r2473
01-17-2012, 09:07 AM
......also, the "flat left wrist" was a major ephiany for me (well, as I'm a lefty, its actually a flat right wrist). I tend to do what this video suggest as far as my setup:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm8nXn34yUU

To stop the "sway", I only take the club back about half way (in truth it goes farther than this, but that's what it feels like, but I'm not close to parallel). I give up a little in distance, but it is so much easier to stay accurate when you take a shorter swing.

Hold, or think of holding, a soccer ball or basket ball between your knees without letting it drop. It will be easier and more consistent once you slow your swing/tempo.

...I like the soccer ball idea Paris.

And I'm really not as bad at the short game as I said above. I'm a better than average chipper. I'm also a good lag putter. I usually envision a 3-5 foot circle around the cup and always want to miss on the low side (so I have an easy uphill short second putt). That is my aim. Not necessarily the cup itself. I really suck at pitching however. 50-yards and in is my weakness. I can't get those shots near enough to the cup.

Truthfully, I play golf like an old man. Half swings, pretty straight, not impressive distance, and two putts. But, given the "normal" amount of mistakes, I end up shooting "true" bogey golf most times.

athiker
01-17-2012, 09:16 AM
Sorry to go off-topic, but what parts of the AT have you covered, and what parts are your fav's? I used to be an avid hiker back in the day. Miss it alot..

GA --> ME Thru-Hike

Standouts are Mt. Rogers NRA/Grayson Highlands SP area in VA and the White Mountains in NH. Hard not to include nearly all of ME though! Quite a few others if I was making a full list...don't recall ever being bored anywhere!

Here is a little video of Grayson Highlands area...not during the original hike obviously! We go back there nearly every year. My wife and I hiked it together back in '98, before house, kids and dog. :) Where do/did you like to go?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39KUygzRJfg&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

http://www.appalachiantrail.org/

thug the bunny
01-17-2012, 09:54 AM
Outstanding. I bow down to you sir.

I have covered chunks in VA, all of MD (all 15 mi or whatever), all of PA and NJ, and chunks in NY, CT, MA, and NH. Never got up to ME though:cry: I like the Hawk Mt area in PA, but my fav all time was a 6 day trek through the White Mts - just stunning terrain/flora/fauna. I still remember my stomach hurting from laughing when a porcupine ate one of my buddie's boots during the night (attracted by the salt from his sweat I guess). Luckily one of us brought duck tape to (barely) hold his boot together for the rest of the hike.

thug the bunny
01-17-2012, 10:08 AM
......also, the "flat left wrist" was a major ephiany for me (well, as I'm a lefty, its actually a flat right wrist). I tend to do what this video suggest as far as my setup:

r2473, the flat wrist hit is a good remedy for those who tend to 'flip' (yes the same flip that can be observed in a tennis swing) and let the clubhead pass the hands at contact. However, keep in mind 1) you can over-cook this, which can lead to 'chicken winging', and 2) you do have to eventually release the clubhead past the hands, unless you are executing a punch shot.

I don't have to use a flat wrist swing thought because if anything, I sometimes tend to 'get stuck' with the clubhead behind me as a result of trying to get too much lag. When this happens I have to envision really releasing the wrists right before impact.

r2473
01-17-2012, 10:22 AM
you do have to eventually release the clubhead past the hands, unless you are executing a punch shot..

It really works well for chipping. I think Mickelson teaches this. Pressing the hands forward. He also does this while putting (so do I).

I don't have to use a flat wrist swing thought because if anything, I sometimes tend to 'get stuck' with the clubhead behind me as a result of trying to get too much lag. When this happens I have to envision really releasing the wrists right before impact.

True. But the novice (like myself) has more trouble not getting enough lag. Its pretty easy for the average hack to let his hands get too far ahead (not necessarily flipping at it). Especially after 4 hours of playing when you are tired (that's also when its easy to start swaying back).

thug the bunny
01-17-2012, 10:40 AM
Uh huh, I forgot to add the flat (= firm) wrist is abo****ely mandatory for flush contact during chipping. Mickelson uses this very noticeably and successfully.