PDA

View Full Version : Having trouble adding pronation to my forehand backswing?


ace_pace
01-12-2012, 02:09 AM
Because I am always trying to improve my forehand, I am now trying to add pronation to my backswing for my forehand. As of now I use semi western grip and I find that majority of the time when i play against people Im forced to play behind the baseline in order for my forehand to feel comfortable because I have fairly large backswing. I know Im supposed to shorten the backswing, but when I do I notice lack of pace and spin (naturally) sometimes even a drop in accuracy.

So after reading and researching a bit I found that a lot of good players tend to pronate their forearms during the racket drop of their backswing. I have read that the positives of this being more power and spin with a smaller backswing.

I tried adding pronation to my backswing but it just feels so awkward. Also when I hit with it I seem to lose a lot of control, I cant control depth and height well. I frame quite a bit with it too.

So what I'm asking for is any tips on how to introduce pronation to my backswing? I know the baseline problem can easily be solved by decent footwork but I still want to improve my forehand anyways. I know theres nothing wrong with my forehand but I'm always interested in improving it.

Help is greatly appreciated.

Limpinhitter
01-12-2012, 02:57 AM
You don't pronate on the backswing. You suppinate, and then pronate, on the forward swing and follow through as a result of a relaxed, tension free arm, wrist and grip.

aimr75
01-12-2012, 04:27 AM
^ I think what the OP is looking at incorporating is the "pat the dog" position which means the hitting hand palm more or less faces the ground.. this would mean the forearm pronates during the takeback

http://d7c2b0wpljtwf.cloudfront.net/var/ezwebin_site/storage/images/media/images/e-anatomy/anatomical-terms-of-location-position-motion/supination-pronation/2511136-1-eng-GB/supination-pronation_medical512.jpg

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/images/stories/large/2009/06/01/fedone88093775.jpg

86golf
01-12-2012, 04:51 AM
Because I am always trying to improve my forehand, I am now trying to add pronation to my backswing for my forehand. As of now I use semi western grip and I find that majority of the time when i play against people Im forced to play behind the baseline in order for my forehand to feel comfortable because I have fairly large backswing. I know Im supposed to shorten the backswing, but when I do I notice lack of pace and spin (naturally) sometimes even a drop in accuracy.

So after reading and researching a bit I found that a lot of good players tend to pronate their forearms during the racket drop of their backswing. I have read that the positives of this being more power and spin with a smaller backswing.

I tried adding pronation to my backswing but it just feels so awkward. Also when I hit with it I seem to lose a lot of control, I cant control depth and height well. I frame quite a bit with it too.

So what I'm asking for is any tips on how to introduce pronation to my backswing? I know the baseline problem can easily be solved by decent footwork but I still want to improve my forehand anyways. I know theres nothing wrong with my forehand but I'm always interested in improving it.

Help is greatly appreciated.

Where do your strings face on your backswing currently? Down to the court, the side fence or at net?

Geology_Rocks!
01-12-2012, 04:53 AM
Search for posts made by Tricky.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=137117

This will get you started.

ho
01-12-2012, 06:10 AM
Because I am always trying to improve my forehand, I am now trying to add pronation to my backswing for my forehand. As of now I use semi western grip and I find that majority of the time when i play against people Im forced to play behind the baseline in order for my forehand to feel comfortable because I have fairly large backswing. I know Im supposed to shorten the backswing, but when I do I notice lack of pace and spin (naturally) sometimes even a drop in accuracy.

So after reading and researching a bit I found that a lot of good players tend to pronate their forearms during the racket drop of their backswing. I have read that the positives of this being more power and spin with a smaller backswing.

I tried adding pronation to my backswing but it just feels so awkward. Also when I hit with it I seem to lose a lot of control, I cant control depth and height well. I frame quite a bit with it too.

So what I'm asking for is any tips on how to introduce pronation to my backswing? I know the baseline problem can easily be solved by decent footwork but I still want to improve my forehand anyways. I know theres nothing wrong with my forehand but I'm always interested in improving it.

Help is greatly appreciated.
In the heat of the game, sometime I forgot to supinate (pronate is a product of supinate) and you do not have spin.
One trick that i use is your left hand: at the highest part of your racket, before release your racket from the handle, use your left hand and push back a little, that will automatic laid your wrist back: you start your supination. cannot forget.
You should keep your large loop, it has nothing to do with pronation, it suppose to add speed.
You can control your degree of pronation by noticing how low your racket head point to the ground: the lower the more WW. the more WW the more spin you get but also means the more speed you loose.

decades
01-12-2012, 06:15 AM
^ I think what the OP is looking at incorporating is the "pat the dog" position which means the hitting hand palm more or less faces the ground.. this would mean the forearm pronates during the takeback

http://d7c2b0wpljtwf.cloudfront.net/var/ezwebin_site/storage/images/media/images/e-anatomy/anatomical-terms-of-location-position-motion/supination-pronation/2511136-1-eng-GB/supination-pronation_medical512.jpg

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/images/stories/large/2009/06/01/fedone88093775.jpg


that looks semi western? but most say he has an eastern?

chico9166
01-12-2012, 06:19 AM
that looks semi western? but most say he has an eastern?
It looks semi western because he pronates.

Limpinhitter
01-12-2012, 08:12 AM
^ I think what the OP is looking at incorporating is the "pat the dog" position which means the hitting hand palm more or less faces the ground.. this would mean the forearm pronates during the takeback

http://d7c2b0wpljtwf.cloudfront.net/var/ezwebin_site/storage/images/media/images/e-anatomy/anatomical-terms-of-location-position-motion/supination-pronation/2511136-1-eng-GB/supination-pronation_medical512.jpg

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/images/stories/large/2009/06/01/fedone88093775.jpg

Hey amir,

I understand your point, and that may be what the OP is talking about. But, strictly speaking, I don't think that's pronation. I can achieve that position by rotating the shoulder from the ready position without any pronation of the forearm.

DjokovicForTheWin
01-12-2012, 08:40 AM
^ I think what the OP is looking at incorporating is the "pat the dog" position which means the hitting hand palm more or less faces the ground.. this would mean the forearm pronates during the takeback


IF you're pronating on the takeback then presumably you have to supinate during the beginning part of the forward swing in order to finish with a pronation.

rkelley
01-12-2012, 08:40 AM
^ http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/images/stories/large/2009/06/01/fedone88093775.jpg

In the above picture Fed's wrist is pronated, not supinated, but this isn't the "pat the dog" position. His racquet appears to be dropping down from the unit turm, but the forward part of his swing really hasn't started yet. I believe in another moment you would see his hips and shoulders turn toward the net. That turning will cause the racquet to point back behind him with the face pointing towards the ground. That's where the supination occurs and that's the "pat the dog" position. From there the racquet will move forward and pronate.

Look at the Lock and Roll forehand video for a good explanation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMNtq393tvo&feature=related

ace_pace
01-12-2012, 07:42 PM
Where do your strings face on your backswing currently? Down to the court, the side fence or at net?

Sorry for the late reply. My current backswing is facing down to the court.

ace_pace
01-12-2012, 07:44 PM
In the above picture Fed's wrist is pronated, not supinated, but this isn't the "pat the dog" position. His racquet appears to be dropping down from the unit turm, but the forward part of his swing really hasn't started yet. I believe in another moment you would see his hips and shoulders turn toward the net. That turning will cause the racquet to point back behind him with the face pointing towards the ground. That's where the supination occurs and that's the "pat the dog" position. From there the racquet will move forward and pronate.

Look at the Lock and Roll forehand video for a good explanation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMNtq393tvo&feature=related

Thank you for the link. I found it very helpful and I will try to learn from it. However there is one thing I'd like to question about it. In the video the guy demostrating is hitting off the back foot. I thought the ideal stroke was that you were supposed to transfer weight from the back foot to the front foot :S

ace_pace
01-12-2012, 07:52 PM
I have another question. Because I use semi western grip, when and how far should I pronate my forearm? Should the hitting face be facing the back fence or the ground?

86golf
01-12-2012, 08:01 PM
Sorry for the late reply. My current backswing is facing down to the court.

Ok, so you are already pronating some, relative to contact position. You want to pronate more like Djokovic?
I might would consider taking the racquet back more facing the side fence first and see how that feels.

ace_pace
01-13-2012, 01:11 AM
Ok, so you are already pronating some, relative to contact position. You want to pronate more like Djokovic?
I might would consider taking the racquet back more facing the side fence first and see how that feels.

So do you mean pointing the racquet face towards the side fence or do you mean pointing the top of my racquet towards the fence, while keeping the racquet face pointing towards the ground:-??

86golf
01-13-2012, 05:38 AM
So do you mean pointing the racquet face towards the side fence or do you mean pointing the top of my racquet towards the fence, while keeping the racquet face pointing towards the ground:-??

Strings (hitting side) toward the side fence on your prep (take back), racquet tip up. This will get your wrist in proper position a tad earlier and may help with your consistency.
Good luck!

rkelley
01-13-2012, 10:03 AM
Thank you for the link. I found it very helpful and I will try to learn from it. However there is one thing I'd like to question about it. In the video the guy demostrating is hitting off the back foot. I thought the ideal stroke was that you were supposed to transfer weight from the back foot to the front foot :S

I valid obersvation on the footwork I think.

But his explanation of the prep after the unit turn I've personally found really helpful. His tip about rotating the wrist so that the racquet faces the side fence as you let go of the racquet with the left hand at the end of the unit turn I've found really helpful. And more germane to this discussion, then he talks about how the shoulder and hip rotation causes the racquet to naturally drop down and back into the pat the dog position.

aimr75
01-13-2012, 02:04 PM
Hey amir,

I understand your point, and that may be what the OP is talking about. But, strictly speaking, I don't think that's pronation. I can achieve that position by rotating the shoulder from the ready position without any pronation of the forearm.

I agree you can keep your arm passive and with the unit turn you can get there. I try to do it this way too. Others may also pronate during the turn too. You see this sometimes when the hitting face face more to the back fence

IF you're pronating on the takeback then presumably you have to supinate during the beginning part of the forward swing in order to finish with a pronation.

As I understand it, yeah

In the above picture Fed's wrist is pronated, not supinated, but this isn't the "pat the dog" position. His racquet appears to be dropping down from the unit turm, but the forward part of his swing really hasn't started yet. I believe in another moment you would see his hips and shoulders turn toward the net. That turning will cause the racquet to point back behind him with the face pointing towards the ground. That's where the supination occurs and that's the "pat the dog" position. From there the racquet will move forward and pronate.

Look at the Lock and Roll forehand video for a good explanation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMNtq393tvo&feature=related

That to me is not the pat position. There are a number of old posts by bungalow bill and tricky that describe this, and is effectively the position fed is in the pic. This is different to say most wta players that keep the hitting palm open (to the side fence say) or delpo

BevelDevil
01-13-2012, 04:00 PM
You shouldn't have to add pronation to generate adequate power.

Before tinkering with your swing in such a huge way, you might want to try other, smaller changes.

Things to consider:

- are you sure it's your big backswing that is causing your problems? Maybe better footwork or reading the ball might what is needed.

- are you not laying back your wrist enough on the backswing?

- maybe you're overcompensating, and making your backswing too small.


Try posting a vid of your "normal" swing and have people critique it.

Definitely trying to do a Federer swing is a huge change and may not be worth the transition cost.