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zapvor
01-12-2012, 10:29 PM
So this occurred to me and i think i am onto something here.

a huge majority of the posters here (say 78%?) who are constantly posting in the various sections and talking about their game and how their latest string set up is working/ not working out and which shoes are better than which other shoe, and rating other people who post on here, etc are in fact not high level players themselves.

the exception is for those who post in, say Adult Leagues and tournament section.

i say this because having come across so many high level tennis players i eventually bring up gear talk, and it seems the better the player the less they know about gear. and to compound this fact, all the posters in this section who go on and on criticizing other people's level, mechanics, technique, what have you, never post a video of themselves. again, there are exceptions to this theory.

ok am i ready for the blacklash? lol

GuyClinch
01-12-2012, 10:52 PM
I dunno man - very high level players are very particular about their gear in a competitive situation. Obviously if they are playing a 3.5 - it doesn't matter...

So sure there are some mediocre gear geeks out there - but pro players care alot of bout their stringing set up and all.

zapvor
01-12-2012, 11:29 PM
sorry to clarify-i am talking about high level players who are not pro. so say someone playing college ball. also this year at legg mason one of the players got here early and needed their racket strung. when i asked him what racket and string he uses he admitted he had no idea.

dominikk1985
01-13-2012, 02:23 AM
I agree to some extend. A lot of guys are arguing about the kinematic chain, pronation, slight material difference and whether a roddick or federer serve is the best before they have the basics down while most good guys who learned as kids don't care about that stuff because they do it automatically.

tennis_balla
01-13-2012, 02:42 AM
Common sense. 4,000+ posts in less then 2 years, constantly giving their opinion about everything be it gear, coaching, pro players games, who's playing with what paint job, who's not and so on.
You don't get good at tennis posting 24/7 on a tennis forum. Also, the amount of analysis on this forum is down right humorous at times especially when arguing coaching terminology.

There have been some very good players who have posted or are posting here. Some used it as sort of a blog such as Tony Larson and its great to see. However, there is a reason why there aren't more top players and coaches posting and it has to do with the fact that anyone can and most of the time does put in their 2cents even though they are way in over their heads and have no clue. Thats the nature of forums though and I've seen many good posters from other forums (non tennis related) be either driven off or just leave cause it wasn't worth their time. Some call it the power of stupidity in large numbers. If you don't believe me, just check out the threads in General Pro Players Discussion section as a prime example.

dr325i
01-13-2012, 02:54 AM
Common sense. 4,000+ posts in less then 2 years, constantly giving their opinion about everything be it gear, coaching, pro players games, who's playing with what paint job, who's not and so on.
You don't get good at tennis posting 24/7 on a tennis forum. Also, the amount of analysis on this forum is down right humorous at times especially when arguing coaching terminology.

There have been some very good players who have posted or are posting here. Some used it as sort of a blog such as Tony Larson and its great to see. However, there is a reason why there aren't more top players and coaches posting and it has to do with the fact that anyone can and most of the time does put in their 2cents even though they are way in over their heads and have no clue. Thats the nature of forums though and I've seen many good posters from other forums (non tennis related) be either driven off or just leave cause it wasn't worth their time. Some call it the power of stupidity in large numbers. If you don't believe me, just check out the threads in General Pro Players Discussion section as a prime example.

I'm gonna have to hit with this guy ;)

Maui19
01-13-2012, 03:16 AM
It is the same way in golf. Most of the real players don't worry about gear all that much, and the percentage of golfers who are knowledgeable about gear is quite small. I think it is the same way in tennis. Most of the players I talk to know very little about gear and how their sticks are strung.

Gearheads are gearheads--they make up a small percentage of just about any interest group.

Kam2010
01-13-2012, 03:20 AM
Just because you don't post on here means that your game is any better than someone who posts here often.
If tennis is something you have a passion about you will post here nearly everyday or just check the forums. Doesn't mean your not good at tennis just more time on your hands..

dr325i
01-13-2012, 03:27 AM
Just because you don't post on here means that your game is any better than someone who posts here often.
.

I don't believe he ever said that!

GuyClinch
01-13-2012, 06:04 AM
sorry to clarify-i am talking about high level players who are not pro. so say someone playing college ball. also this year at legg mason one of the players got here early and needed their racket strung. when i asked him what racket and string he uses he admitted he had no idea.

You do realize alot of good players have a stringer. So they let that guy pick the set up - and then just complain when it feels off..

The stringer might know EXACTLY what the guy uses off the top of his head and it might be kinda obscure..

rufusbgood
01-13-2012, 06:35 AM
Revelation:

Zapvor misses dozu.

tennismonkey
01-13-2012, 07:31 AM
omg - what happened to that guy dozu? did his arms finally fall off from swinging his human racquet?

rdis10093
01-13-2012, 07:50 AM
I am 4.0+, I know alot about my own racuqet. (company and model.) I am know also currently starting to understand more about tennis strings to. Back in high school, I had no idea what string I used, but when I came to college, I had to email my friend, and ask him what strings and tension I used.

Question to the OP though, what playing level do you think most of the posters are? I would assume the opposite, since everyone knows so much about racquets, strings, and ATP players, that most of the people here are at a very high level. That is just my guess though, ignorance is bliss.

westside
01-13-2012, 07:54 AM
I hope there is an exception to those of us who work in pro shops :D

tennis_balla
01-13-2012, 07:57 AM
Question to the OP though, what playing level do you think most of the posters are? I would assume the opposite, since everyone knows so much about racquets, strings, and ATP players, that most of the people here are at a very high level. That is just my guess though, ignorance is bliss.

The average level on TW, just like everywhere else is USPTA NTRP 3.5, however on the internet everyone is at least 4.5, 5.0 or serves at a 6.0 level.

rdis10093
01-13-2012, 08:10 AM
if that is ture, I think I would come up short in a lot of matches against those on the internet.

tennismonkey
01-13-2012, 08:17 AM
in my experience:

folks who play usta leagues know what ntrp they are.

folks from the USA who don't play usta leagues, you can subtract .5 to 1.0 from their self rating.

folks from any other country outside the USA, you can add .5 to 1.0 to their self rating.

benjamins_80
01-13-2012, 08:18 AM
Interesting theory. Although Nadal and his camp made a big deal of adding 3 grams of lead at 12 on his racquet. Seems like he knows a thing or two about his gear.
I enjoy spending time on the forum just to read other peoples thoughts on the sport. I love the game as do the other people on here. It is a good place to get together and discuss regardless of whether I am talking to a 3.5 or 5.0 player.

j00dypoo
01-13-2012, 08:44 AM
Too much generalizing here. I agree to a certain extent, and disagree as well. There are far too many people arguing about petty details here. Too many fanboys. Too many arrogant, inflated egos. But those are all part of any forum. You should expect all these things.

And I do believe the average skill level around here is 3.5-4.0.

It's true that some people here are complete gearheads. It's what they love though, so let them be happy. I know the differences that various equipment impart on the game, but I don't freak out at the smallest of margins, if say, I'm using a twisted poly string that gives me 10 extra rpms. I learn to adjust b/c I possess the skill, as do a lot of people here. Some just enjoy discussing and blaming equipment for their failures.

ohplease
01-13-2012, 09:19 AM
Saying the average level is 3.5 to 4.0 doesn't tell you anything. Those two levels effectively make up the middle %60 of the league playing population (with the remaining %40 split between 3.0 and 4.5).

That's a HUGE number of players, and the bottom of 3.5 and top of 4.0 represent a world of difference. It's not hyperbole to say that your standard 4.5 is better than probably 90% of players - because it's true.

Half the people who are committed enough to tennis to play USTA league have yet to reach 4.0. 85% have yet to reach 4.5.

j00dypoo
01-13-2012, 09:39 AM
What are you talking about? Those are such arbitrary, made up numbers haha.

It does tell you something. It tells you exactly what you think it does - that most people on this board fall in that range, which just happens to fall along the same lines as the general population.

Pet
01-13-2012, 09:50 AM
I only know one thing, the less I read this section, better IŽam :confused:

ohplease
01-13-2012, 09:53 AM
What are you talking about? Those are such arbitrary, made up numbers haha.

It does tell you something. It tells you exactly what you think it does - that most people on this board fall in that range, which just happens to fall along the same lines as the general population.

Those numbers are derived from real data supplied by the USTA. There are tons of threads about those numbers every year, especially around the time ratings are updated at year end. Do a search. You might cite your beliefs, but that doesn't mean others do, too.

And the "average" league player is way better than the "average" player that doesn't play in a league of some kind. That's precisely why non-league players get wake up calls about how good they aren't when they start playing league tennis, instead of just hitting with their buddies or at their club.

j00dypoo
01-13-2012, 10:03 AM
No, I'm not sitting here arguing. I don't disagree. I'm wondering why you brought league players up. Original question was about the average player HERE on these forums. We're talking about two completely different entities.

Anyways, everyone carry on and ignore us lol.

Wilander Fan
01-13-2012, 10:04 AM
Well, I think this is somewhat true. Once a player feels good with a set-up he tends to never look back. The guys trying out various things are usually having some issues like control or creating spin so they tinker alot with strings and tension.

TennisCJC
01-13-2012, 11:49 AM
sorry to clarify-i am talking about high level players who are not pro. so say someone playing college ball. also this year at legg mason one of the players got here early and needed their racket strung. when i asked him what racket and string he uses he admitted he had no idea.

He has no idea because his coach probably told him which racket, string, and string tension to use. Gear matters but not all that much as long as your gear is "acceptable" range for your skill.

There is a Delray Beach Stringing thread here somewhere by the pro stringers who worked the Del Ray event. They said some of the pros would show up with mismatched lead tape where a strip fell off 1 side of the racket. They had no idea anything was wrong with their racket.

But, some pros pay attention to detail and know everything about their racket. Sampras had to have St Vincent pro staffs and would complain about too much string stencil paint like he could tell a difference in weight.

Soderling has special molded grips that fit his hand indentations applied to his rackets.

snowpuppy
01-13-2012, 12:24 PM
If this forum is any representation of the tennis playing population out there, where to you thinking most of your answers are coming from?

zapvor
01-13-2012, 01:09 PM
Good to see actual discussion here.now to be sure,I was talking about those that do not play usta. They may be gearheads but they can play at a certain level too I was referring to the ones that are criticizing and offering advice about other peoples games but they never back it up with evidence

j00dypoo
01-13-2012, 09:28 PM
Maybe those people don't care to "prove" anything or feel the need to garner internet e-fame. Some of the people here offering advice are indeed very good. Others of course are not. And yes, those people probably do not ever want to reveal their true skill.

Kam2010
01-14-2012, 09:36 AM
people talk the talk but can't walk the walk is what zap is trying to say I think*

j00dypoo^ you will never see me play ever and im going to criticize all your posts lol

InspectorRacquet
01-14-2012, 12:23 PM
What I've found is that the more knowledgeable the player is about his or her equipment and game, the higher the chance is that he or she has never taken any lessons. The players I've met over the years follow this pattern.

Those that had lessons that I met usually don't know a whole lot about what they are using, but do know that it works - not necessarily how or even why.

Those that built their games from the ground up without any lessons, coaching, or anybody telling them to play with this racquet because they have to are usually the ones that are the most knowledgeable about their equipment.

What I've gathered is that those that generally have had lessons for most of their life just want to play tennis to win, which translates to less care about what they use. Those who played it for sport (as that is what tennis is - a sport for fun) and some competitiveness usually know what they use down to the nearest gram off the top of their head.

WildVolley
01-14-2012, 05:50 PM
The average level on TW, just like everywhere else is USPTA NTRP 3.5, however on the internet everyone is at least 4.5, 5.0 or serves at a 6.0 level.

I think you're getting carried away. For instance, you are better than a 3.5 and you're not the only one here who is. I think that tennis fanatics are probably slightly skewed toward better players versus the overall population. The mode player on TTTW is probably only a 3.5, but I'm sure that 4.5 players post here at a disproportionate level compared to their share of the overall tennis population.

Also, I see some terrible advice, but just as often I see some good advice. And in any case, people will always like to argue. I've spoken with Robert Lansdorp, who has coached a number of #1s, and I'm not sure I'd agree with all his advice. But, unlike some anonymous internet poster, his advice must be taken seriously.

zapvor
01-14-2012, 10:33 PM
people talk the talk but can't walk the walk is what zap is trying to say I think*

j00dypoo^ you will never see me play ever and im going to criticize all your posts lol

exactly. thank you for putting it better than i did in my gibberish lol

zapvor
01-14-2012, 10:34 PM
I think you're getting carried away. For instance, you are better than a 3.5 and you're not the only one here who is. I think that tennis fanatics are probably slightly skewed toward better players versus the overall population. The mode player on TTTW is probably only a 3.5, but I'm sure that 4.5 players post here at a disproportionate level compared to their share of the overall tennis population.

Also, I see some terrible advice, but just as often I see some good advice. And in any case, people will always like to argue. I've spoken with Robert Lansdorp, who has coached a number of #1s, and I'm not sure I'd agree with all his advice. But, unlike some anonymous internet poster, his advice must be taken seriously.

right. what i was referring to were those posters here who are always in threads giving critique on people's videos, etc and saying 'oh you are doing x you need to do y' etc etc but as soon as you ask them to post a video or back it up they ignore that post lol

example: this thread
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=407856

j00dypoo
01-15-2012, 09:59 AM
exactly. thank you for putting it better than i did in my gibberish lol

yeah we know. that's obvious the point of this thread. I think you got your point across well. I was just giving a counterpoint or reasons why some people don't post videos of themselves.

rufusbgood
01-15-2012, 10:27 AM
right. what i was referring to were those posters here who are always in threads giving critique on people's videos, etc and saying 'oh you are doing x you need to do y' etc etc but as soon as you ask them to post a video or back it up they ignore that post lol


I've got an idea. If it's really that frustrating for you, why don't you stomp your feet? Create a fuss? Maybe throw in some hair pulling and some tears? Oh, wait....that's what this thread is, isn't it? Poor you, surrounded by adults who are ignoring you. Gee, I wonder why?

zapvor
01-15-2012, 02:10 PM
I've got an idea. If it's really that frustrating for you, why don't you stomp your feet? Create a fuss? Maybe throw in some hair pulling and some tears? Oh, wait....that's what this thread is, isn't it? Poor you, surrounded by adults who are ignoring you. Gee, I wonder why?

Hahhahhaaahah thanks for the laugh.just made my day:)

5263
01-15-2012, 08:04 PM
exactly. thank you for putting it better than i did in my gibberish lol

IMO in general there is a lot to your theory, but also plenty of exceptions as well.

Frank Silbermann
01-16-2012, 04:07 AM
in my experience:

folks who play usta leagues know what ntrp they are.

folks from the USA who don't play usta leagues, you can subtract .5 to 1.0 from their self rating.

folks from any other country outside the USA, you can add .5 to 1.0 to their self rating. I find that people who don't play USTA leagues self-rate accurately, but those who do play USTA leagues under report themselves by about 1.0 (and play in those lower-level leagues).

Of course, I'm using the USTA Guidelines as the definitive description. That's why they were invented -- so a tennis pro could look at your strokes and set you up in a match with someone whose strokes he saw a day or two ago. If NTRP is merely to be a competition-derived rating, there's no advantage over the old system of "A, B, or C" player (modified with + and - to give narrower categories).

Frank Silbermann
01-16-2012, 04:10 AM
So this occurred to me and i think i am onto something here.

a huge majority of the posters here (say 78%?) who are constantly posting in the various sections and talking about their game and how their latest string set up is working/ not working out and which shoes are better than which other shoe, and rating other people who post on here, etc are in fact not high level players themselves.
That makes sense. People who talk about gear are thinkers, and people who tend to think tend not to be as athletically inclined as people who prefer to be just there in the moment.

zapvor
01-16-2012, 04:23 AM
That makes sense. People who talk about gear are thinkers, and people who tend to think tend not to be as athletically inclined as people who prefer to be just there in the moment.

lol thats an interesting take. i didnt think of that. i am not a thinker:P

pushing_wins
01-16-2012, 01:12 PM
So this occurred to me and i think i am onto something here.

a huge majority of the posters here (say 78%?) who are constantly posting in the various sections and talking about their game and how their latest string set up is working/ not working out and which shoes are better than which other shoe, and rating other people who post on here, etc are in fact not high level players themselves.

the exception is for those who post in, say Adult Leagues and tournament section.

i say this because having come across so many high level tennis players i eventually bring up gear talk, and it seems the better the player the less they know about gear. and to compound this fact, all the posters in this section who go on and on criticizing other people's level, mechanics, technique, what have you, never post a video of themselves. again, there are exceptions to this theory.

ok am i ready for the blacklash? lol

i play in the same b league as davai marat

but does playing level necessarily mean better analysis?


but does playing level dictate

tenapasi
01-17-2012, 02:43 AM
in my experience:
folks from any other country outside the USA, you can add .5 to 1.0 to their self rating.

Why add .5 to 1.0 for people outside USA ?

zapvor
01-17-2012, 01:55 PM
Why add .5 to 1.0 for people outside USA ?

i think because the club players in europe are much better than those here. for example someone like tommy haas may be a club member there.

zapvor
01-17-2012, 01:56 PM
i play in the same b league as davai marat

but does playing level necessarily mean better analysis?


but does playing level dictate

i was more referring to those that are always criticizing other people and talking about what one needs to do for this and that, but NEVER post any evidence to back it up, especially any video.

ie: "oh yea my first serve hits the fence on one bounce" but when asked to post a video, never does it.

mucat
01-17-2012, 02:09 PM
It is a fact that most of us here can serve 100 mph. For the rest of us, they can serve 120 mph. It is one of the requirements to join TW.

Anything else is a lie.

user92626
01-17-2012, 02:38 PM
It is a fact that most of us here can serve 100 mph. For the rest of us, they can serve 120 mph. It is one of the requirements to join TW.

Anything else is a lie.

Of course. It's pointless to believe otherwise.

zapvor
01-17-2012, 03:28 PM
It is a fact that most of us here can serve 100 mph. For the rest of us, they can serve 120 mph. It is one of the requirements to join TW.

Anything else is a lie.

damn....noone report me then.....please

BevelDevil
01-18-2012, 02:40 PM
I give lots of advice without necessarily being able to execute technique at a high level myself. And I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing.

For example, I just posted something about the two-handed forehand. I rarely hit one, and probably couldn't hit one well at all. But I know a lot about them having played with and helped two people who had them. For example, I know that the grip the top hand takes has a significant effect on the natural racketface disposition and therefore topspin. I've watched what happened when I told my partner to move her top hand to continental from eastern (more topspin). I also observed that a full-western bottom hand is a pretty decent grip that can give tons of power and topspin. Etc.

Another recent example was when someone posted a serve volley video. I haven't served and volleyed for a long time, and when I did, I wasn't particularly good. But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see some obvious flaws-- not propelling into the court on the serve, not bringing the racket up to ready position, not split stepping, etc.


I think a mediocre player can give useful advice as long as he can explain it well and is open to criticism. I'm here to learn as well, so if someone points out a flaw in my reasoning then that's good for me.

Rather than complaining that "non-proven" players are giving too much advice, maybe the complaint should be that proven players are giving too little! But even their advice shouldn't be taken as gospel.


Just because someone is highly ranked or has a great stroke, doesn't mean their advice is always good. This is for at least two, closely related reasons:

1. They may not fully understand why they can do something well.
2. They may not understand what the OP is trying to do.

Example of #1:
"Proven" Player: "You shouldn't have any problem dealing with topspin balls to your Eastern 1hbh, just watch how I do my Dimitrov-like followthrough."

But... the reason Proven Player deals well with topspin is because he is 6'3" and uses a "hammer" Eastern grip, both of which help with high balls. Whereas the OP is 5'7" and uses a conventional Eastern.

Example of #2:
"Proven" Player: "You need to really open your stance, hit the ball way out front and lay your wrist back more at contact, like I do in my video."

But... the Proven Player uses a SW grip, straight-arm pull stroke. Whereas the OP uses an Eastern grip, double-bend push stroke. The Proven Player is giving advice for something the OP isn't even trying to do. In which case, this is actually bad advice, despite how well it works for the Proven Player.

Adjusting to the wants/limitations/style of the OP/student is a key component to good advice, and it is often overlooked.

Of course, ideally the great teacher is also a great player, but this unfortunately seems to be the exception (either due to different skill sets, unwillingness or, probably, both). Alas, perhaps it is true, those who can't do, teach. But maybe this isn't so bad.


Here's a related thought experiment: Who do you think could best coach and improve someone's game and stroke production from, say, 3.0 to 4.0 (or even higher) ? Nadal/Federer, or an average tennis coach? Probably Joe coach would do a better job than Fedal.

Nadal would be like, "Okay, so reverse forehand down the line into the corner. Is easy, no?"

Federer would be like, "You get lobbed? Just do the tweener pass. And if he gets that, do the flick passing shot around the net post. See my videos from 2005-2007."

Limpinhitter
01-18-2012, 02:53 PM
So this occurred to me and i think i am onto something here.

a huge majority of the posters here (say 78%?) who are constantly posting in the various sections and talking about their game and how their latest string set up is working/ not working out and which shoes are better than which other shoe, and rating other people who post on here, etc are in fact not high level players themselves.

the exception is for those who post in, say Adult Leagues and tournament section.

i say this because having come across so many high level tennis players i eventually bring up gear talk, and it seems the better the player the less they know about gear. and to compound this fact, all the posters in this section who go on and on criticizing other people's level, mechanics, technique, what have you, never post a video of themselves. again, there are exceptions to this theory.

ok am i ready for the blacklash? lol

I guess it depends on what you mean by high level. In my experience, adult league players are generally not high level players. And I do know some pretty good player/coaches who not only know their gear, they actually [GASP!] string their own racquets.

tennis_balla
01-18-2012, 03:03 PM
Here's a related thought experiment: Who do you think could best coach and improve someone's game and stroke production from, say, 3.0 to 4.0 (or even higher) ? Nadal/Federer, or an average tennis coach? Probably Joe coach would do a better job than Fedal.

Nadal would be like, "Okay, so reverse forehand down the line into the corner. Is easy, no?"

Federer would be like, "You get lobbed? Just do the tweener pass. And if he gets that, do the flick passing shot around the net post. See my videos from 2005-2007."

You can't be serious with this?

user92626
01-18-2012, 03:09 PM
You know what they say...the crap that exist is infinitely more useful than the crap that doesn't exist. So, I'd take TW tips and advices any day over Federer's.

tennis_balla
01-18-2012, 03:15 PM
You know what they say...the crap that exist is infinitely more useful than the crap that doesn't exist. So, I'd take TW tips and advices any day over Federer's.

Not at all, professional players offer free lessons each and every time they step out onto a tennis court.

tenapasi
01-18-2012, 03:38 PM
I think you don't need to dwell too much on theory.
If you get the basic properly (preparation, footwork, grip etc), and you're do it right according to your body rhythmic, then mostly, you just need to hit balls as much as possible.

Then comes the mental & strategy part. This comes from playing and analyzing your own game. Of course, you'll lost a lot especially again much higher level player. But eventually, you'll catch up.

Then, go watch some pros match. Especially full match. Not highlights. See how they moves, their strategies, etc. See them making mistakes as well. So you'll understand that even pros making mistakes, so don't try to be perfect.
Watching a pro that have similar style like yours is better. I.e if you're a flat hitter, it's not recommended to watch nadal (no pun intended).

If you want to go higher, go play with local athletes that's available in your area. Listen to their advices. But then again, not all advices are good. For example, if you're a flat hitter and comfortable with the way you hit the ball, and they ask you to change grip to full western and play heavy spin, don't listen to them. ;)

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/141/644/7nTnr.png?1309330974

zapvor
01-19-2012, 10:21 PM
I give lots of advice without necessarily being able to execute technique at a high level myself. And I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing.

For example, I just posted something about the two-handed forehand. I rarely hit one, and probably couldn't hit one well at all. But I know a lot about them having played with and helped two people who had them. For example, I know that the grip the top hand takes has a significant effect on the natural racketface disposition and therefore topspin. I've watched what happened when I told my partner to move her top hand to continental from eastern (more topspin). I also observed that a full-western bottom hand is a pretty decent grip that can give tons of power and topspin. Etc.

Another recent example was when someone posted a serve volley video. I haven't served and volleyed for a long time, and when I did, I wasn't particularly good. But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see some obvious flaws-- not propelling into the court on the serve, not bringing the racket up to ready position, not split stepping, etc.


I think a mediocre player can give useful advice as long as he can explain it well and is open to criticism. I'm here to learn as well, so if someone points out a flaw in my reasoning then that's good for me.

Rather than complaining that "non-proven" players are giving too much advice, maybe the complaint should be that proven players are giving too little! But even their advice shouldn't be taken as gospel.


Just because someone is highly ranked or has a great stroke, doesn't mean their advice is always good. This is for at least two, closely related reasons:

1. They may not fully understand why they can do something well.
2. They may not understand what the OP is trying to do.





Here's a related thought experiment: Who do you think could best coach and improve someone's game and stroke production from, say, 3.0 to 4.0 (or even higher) ? Nadal/Federer, or an average tennis coach? Probably Joe coach would do a better job than Fedal.

Nadal would be like, "Okay, so reverse forehand down the line into the corner. Is easy, no?"

Federer would be like, "You get lobbed? Just do the tweener pass. And if he gets that, do the flick passing shot around the net post. See my videos from 2005-2007."
ok your post is fairly funny. but here is my point, again:

first i am not talking about pro level here. i am saying there's too many posters here who are constantly criticizing and what not about other people's game, but when it comes time for them to provide proof or video evidence, none is to be found.

i am not talking about how a good player may be a bad coach or vice versa.

zapvor
01-19-2012, 10:23 PM
I guess it depends on what you mean by high level. In my experience, adult league players are generally not high level players. And I do know some pretty good player/coaches who not only know their gear, they actually [GASP!] string their own racquets.

i can agree. but the league players are not those who are constantly in here giving advice and what not and never providing proof. their USTA league records speak for themselves so they are ok. i am talking about those who never provide anything. no match record, no video clip, no nothing. all talk, no proof

mxmx
01-20-2012, 02:58 AM
Maybe those people don't care to "prove" anything or feel the need to garner internet e-fame. Some of the people here offering advice are indeed very good. Others of course are not. And yes, those people probably do not ever want to reveal their true skill.

and

j00dypoo: yeah we know. that's obvious the point of this thread. I think you got your point across well. I was just giving a counterpoint or reasons why some people don't post videos of themselves.

well...i am trying to work around a couple of issues before i upload my videos...such as having some level of privacy...hate having photos/videos of me for some strangers to see. I have for example mentioned my approach to some of my rivals at my club...would not help if they read these forums and realise its me knowing what i said about their game. TW is one of the first sites that pops up when googling.
Then i also need to find a hitting partner who would not mind being video'd either. Else i will have to resort to hitting against a wall...which will only reveal so much. Maybe i can edit the contrast of the video for some privacy?
I can however take footage of myself serving from behind...(these all sound excuses, but are in fact what has been causing me from actually taking video footage - maybe some of you have found ways around similar things?)

mxmx
01-20-2012, 03:06 AM
I find that people who don't play USTA leagues self-rate accurately, but those who do play USTA leagues under report themselves by about 1.0 (and play in those lower-level leagues).

Of course, I'm using the USTA Guidelines as the definitive description. That's why they were invented -- so a tennis pro could look at your strokes and set you up in a match with someone whose strokes he saw a day or two ago. If NTRP is merely to be a competition-derived rating, there's no advantage over the old system of "A, B, or C" player (modified with + and - to give narrower categories).

If it makes anyone feel any better....I don't even know what my rating is...In my country, we do not have a rating system like this. I would call myself a good to high level club player...but then again, one gets various levels of clubs...It is rather frustrating not knowing what my level of play is...

mxmx
01-20-2012, 03:33 AM
I give lots of advice without necessarily being able to execute technique at a high level myself. And I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing.

For example, I just posted something about the two-handed forehand. I rarely hit one, and probably couldn't hit one well at all. But I know a lot about them having played with and helped two people who had them. For example, I know that the grip the top hand takes has a significant effect on the natural racketface disposition and therefore topspin. I've watched what happened when I told my partner to move her top hand to continental from eastern (more topspin). I also observed that a full-western bottom hand is a pretty decent grip that can give tons of power and topspin. Etc.

Another recent example was when someone posted a serve volley video. I haven't served and volleyed for a long time, and when I did, I wasn't particularly good. But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see some obvious flaws-- not propelling into the court on the serve, not bringing the racket up to ready position, not split stepping, etc.


I think a mediocre player can give useful advice as long as he can explain it well and is open to criticism. I'm here to learn as well, so if someone points out a flaw in my reasoning then that's good for me.

Rather than complaining that "non-proven" players are giving too much advice, maybe the complaint should be that proven players are giving too little! But even their advice shouldn't be taken as gospel.


Just because someone is highly ranked or has a great stroke, doesn't mean their advice is always good. This is for at least two, closely related reasons:

1. They may not fully understand why they can do something well.
2. They may not understand what the OP is trying to do.

Example of #1:
"Proven" Player: "You shouldn't have any problem dealing with topspin balls to your Eastern 1hbh, just watch how I do my Dimitrov-like followthrough."

But... the reason Proven Player deals well with topspin is because he is 6'3" and uses a "hammer" Eastern grip, both of which help with high balls. Whereas the OP is 5'7" and uses a conventional Eastern.

Example of #2:
"Proven" Player: "You need to really open your stance, hit the ball way out front and lay your wrist back more at contact, like I do in my video."

But... the Proven Player uses a SW grip, straight-arm pull stroke. Whereas the OP uses an Eastern grip, double-bend push stroke. The Proven Player is giving advice for something the OP isn't even trying to do. In which case, this is actually bad advice, despite how well it works for the Proven Player.

Adjusting to the wants/limitations/style of the OP/student is a key component to good advice, and it is often overlooked.

Of course, ideally the great teacher is also a great player, but this unfortunately seems to be the exception (either due to different skill sets, unwillingness or, probably, both). Alas, perhaps it is true, those who can't do, teach. But maybe this isn't so bad.


Here's a related thought experiment: Who do you think could best coach and improve someone's game and stroke production from, say, 3.0 to 4.0 (or even higher) ? Nadal/Federer, or an average tennis coach? Probably Joe coach would do a better job than Fedal.

Nadal would be like, "Okay, so reverse forehand down the line into the corner. Is easy, no?"

Federer would be like, "You get lobbed? Just do the tweener pass. And if he gets that, do the flick passing shot around the net post. See my videos from 2005-2007."

I have to agree...

Ones level of knowledge of the game, is not based on playing alone. I have seen players with great technique, lose to players with terrible technique. I have even seen coaches or very good players, play with bad technique and win...i would probably be able to correct them on their bad habit...and they may even know about it themselves. But that does not mean i am a better player than they are or that i would be able to beat them. In the same breath, my level of play does not mean i have inadequite advice when i see him making mistakes on technique. My own game contributes...but there are other factors to consider also.

It is also worth keeping in mind that human anatomy and the variation of sport, often have many things in common. People have compared baseball throwing with serving...and there are good reason to do that. So one can basically learn from anyone...as long as one is humble enough to do so. Being teachable...

mxmx
01-20-2012, 03:38 AM
ok your post is fairly funny. but here is my point, again:

first i am not talking about pro level here. i am saying there's too many posters here who are constantly criticizing and what not about other people's game, but when it comes time for them to provide proof or video evidence, none is to be found.

i am not talking about how a good player may be a bad coach or vice versa.

Sometimes, you need to take peoples word for it. Innocent until proven guilty.
We all need to learn to trust again...

are you talking of extreme claims you find hard to believe?

My question would rather be:
"So many people claiming to have served 100-120mph...how did they actually measure the speed"

mxmx
01-20-2012, 03:40 AM
i can agree. but the league players are not those who are constantly in here giving advice and what not and never providing proof. their USTA league records speak for themselves so they are ok. i am talking about those who never provide anything. no match record, no video clip, no nothing. all talk, no proof

take a holistic view on everything they have said so far - look at some older posts...you will soon find if they have tendancies to know what they're talking about, or not...and wether they seem to have integrity, or not...

Bagumbawalla
01-21-2012, 02:01 PM
Although I believe "the best" players are well aware of their gear, I do have an example that surprised me, and tends to illustrate your point.

About a month ago my practice partner and I played a couple sets against a former coach of the local universities women's tennis team and her practice partner (a guy).

My partner strings rackets and asked her various questions about type of string, tension and all that. Her answer was that she didn't have a clue. She liked what her stringer did, but didn't care to know the details.

On the other hand, she was dressed very nicely and wore barricades.

I have noticed, as you pointed out, that in certain sections, people do tend to become compulsive about socks, string dampners, new rackets, old rackets, tensions, swingweight...

But, in the instruction section, this is seldom the case, most people who ask/answer questions are more concerned about form/technique/tactics than equipment.

In the end, I'm not sure you can make blanket statements that cover every person and every situation.

zapvor
01-22-2012, 10:28 PM
Sometimes, you need to take peoples word for it. Innocent until proven guilty.
We all need to learn to trust again...

are you talking of extreme claims you find hard to believe?

My question would rather be:
"So many people claiming to have served 100-120mph...how did they actually measure the speed"

there is just too many people here talking big and giving criticism without every a single ounce of proof of evidence.

mxmx
01-25-2012, 02:42 AM
criticism can be double checked wether it makes sense or not...speeds of serves are harder to prove....

rufusbgood
01-25-2012, 05:38 AM
there is just too many people here talking big and giving criticism without every a single ounce of proof of evidence.

I read the entire thread you referenced in your post #34 as supposed evidence of your theory and the only person in the thread I would characterize as "giving criticism" was you. Everybody else appeared to be offering suggestions in good faith. You instead offered derision. I quote: "its questions like this that make me laugh".

yea first we need a video. 2nd....its questions like this that make me laugh. that's like asking, i can turn left, but i can't turn right. how do i turn right?

Can you explain to me how posting a video of you playing poorly has put you in a position to make derisive comments about another poster?

beernutz
01-25-2012, 06:38 AM
I find that people who don't play USTA leagues self-rate accurately, but those who do play USTA leagues under report themselves by about 1.0 (and play in those lower-level leagues).

Of course, I'm using the USTA Guidelines as the definitive description. That's why they were invented -- so a tennis pro could look at your strokes and set you up in a match with someone whose strokes he saw a day or two ago. If NTRP is merely to be a competition-derived rating, there's no advantage over the old system of "A, B, or C" player (modified with + and - to give narrower categories).

That is absurd.

Power Player
01-25-2012, 07:21 AM
there is just too many people here talking big and giving criticism without every a single ounce of proof of evidence.

Hello and welcome. Glad you have joined me on this journey.

Sincerely,

The Internet

Frank Silbermann
01-25-2012, 05:51 PM
I find that people who don't play USTA leagues self-rate accurately, but those who do play USTA leagues under report themselves by about 1.0 (and play in those lower-level leagues).

Of course, I'm using the USTA Guidelines as the definitive description. That's why they were invented -- so a tennis pro could look at your strokes and set you up in a match with someone whose strokes he saw a day or two ago. If NTRP is merely to be a competition-derived rating, there's no advantage over the old system of "A, B, or C" player (modified with + and - to give narrower categories).
That is absurd. Not at all. When the NTRP Guidelines were published, Chris Evert was by definition a 7.0 player. But should someone played just like that today in the NTRP Leagues, she'd probably identify as a 5.5 player -- 6.0 at most. (Today's top pros should probably be rated 8.0.) Today's 3.5 league player would have played in a 4.5 league twenty-five years ago.

zapvor
01-25-2012, 08:05 PM
Hello and welcome. Glad you have joined me on this journey.

Sincerely,

The Internet

lol you are right. i guess somehow me thinking the tennis community would be different is.......

zapvor
01-25-2012, 08:05 PM
I read the entire thread you referenced in your post #34 as supposed evidence of your theory and the only person in the thread I would characterize as "giving criticism" was you. Everybody else appeared to be offering suggestions in good faith. You instead offered derision. I quote: "its questions like this that make me laugh".



Can you explain to me how posting a video of you playing poorly has put you in a position to make derisive comments about another poster?

lol you dont come to this section enough i see. keep it up man maybe you will catch up

dsa202
01-26-2012, 07:29 AM
OP is right. People who want to look better than their actual level will try and become more gear oriented so they look like they know what they're talking about. Swingweight, balancing, lead tape placement, is all relative.

Instead they focus on more trivial aspects of the game thinking it will help them improve. Additionally, they think it makes them look like a more "informed" tennis player than they actually are, and on these forums where you cant see the players or how they play, it works.

tenapasi
01-26-2012, 08:19 AM
OP is right. People who want to look better than their actual level will try and become more gear oriented so they look like they know what they're talking about. Swingweight, balancing, lead tape placement, is all relative.

Instead they focus on more trivial aspects of the game thinking it will help them improve. Additionally, they think it makes them look like a more "informed" tennis player than they actually are, and on these forums where you cant see the players or how they play, it works.

You sir, are right. :D

tennis_balla
01-26-2012, 08:28 AM
OP is right. People who want to look better than their actual level will try and become more gear oriented so they look like they know what they're talking about. Swingweight, balancing, lead tape placement, is all relative.

Instead they focus on more trivial aspects of the game thinking it will help them improve. Additionally, they think it makes them look like a more "informed" tennis player than they actually are, and on these forums where you cant see the players or how they play, it works.

You should start visiting some guitar forums and read the threads there as those guys take it to a whole new level. It makes TT look like a pretty sane place...well, sometimes.

Power Player
01-26-2012, 08:38 AM
I can't even go to guitar forums. Its just guys looking for excuses to buy gear. It's insane. Some of the best songs were written on cheap or go to gear.

I was into gear like that for a while, but then i started to get all kinds of stuff for free and the lust was gone forever. Now and then I buy a killer Les Paul or Fender, but it's rare.

Tennis is such a complex sport that it is really easy to get sucked into the gear aspect. For me, I am always looking for a setup that gives me confidence out there. Unfortunately, that is usually a poly that dies every 8 hours and costs a lot per pack..oh well.

Makes me feel a little better to see pros change tension during a match or tinker a little with their setups.

tennis_balla
01-26-2012, 08:51 AM
I know what you mean but I've met some great people through guitar forums.
The gear tinkering with guitars is even more then with tennis. The industry is so huge, and the amount of products that are available not to mention all the custom stuff is insane. Then add to that vintage gear and its history and you got a massive multi-billion dollar industry, something tennis isn't even close to achieving. The majority of people don't play their instruments much, not in a way to improve and become good but rather to just collect gear and boast with NGD threads.

Power Player
01-26-2012, 09:03 AM
Yeah, that is weird to me to spend all that cash and not play much, but I was a touring artist for a long time and got burnt out on gear. My only goal was to write and play great songs, and my gear lust was usually just me searching for specific tones.

Of course the guitar techs would mock you too if you spent all your cash on gear..they were super over it..lol.

zapvor
01-27-2012, 06:05 AM
OP is right. People who want to look better than their actual level will try and become more gear oriented so they look like they know what they're talking about. Swingweight, balancing, lead tape placement, is all relative.

Instead they focus on more trivial aspects of the game thinking it will help them improve. Additionally, they think it makes them look like a more "informed" tennis player than they actually are, and on these forums where you cant see the players or how they play, it works.

You sir, are right. :D

yep yep. their games cant keep up so they resort to other aspects, such as coming here and telling other people what they are doing wrong even though they got no proof or evidence

zapvor
01-27-2012, 06:07 AM
I know what you mean but I've met some great people through guitar forums.
The gear tinkering with guitars is even more then with tennis. The industry is so huge, and the amount of products that are available not to mention all the custom stuff is insane. Then add to that vintage gear and its history and you got a massive multi-billion dollar industry, something tennis isn't even close to achieving. The majority of people don't play their instruments much, not in a way to improve and become good but rather to just collect gear and boast with NGD threads.

thats pretty sad. i dont brag about my gear.

Power Player
01-27-2012, 07:57 AM
thats pretty sad. i dont brag about my gear.

Your gear is not nearly as expensive though, so there is a money factor to it and also an exclusive aspect (many guitars are much rarer than sticks) that you probably would not understand if you don't play.

thug the bunny
01-27-2012, 11:07 AM
It's not just the gear on guitar forums. They are loaded with technique wannab snobs who sneer if you don't know what an inverted isotonic fallopian mode is. Years ago I went on a guitar forum and lasted about 6 months..

Power Player
01-27-2012, 11:24 AM
It's not just the gear on guitar forums. They are loaded with technique wannab snobs who sneer if you don't know what an inverted isotonic fallopian mode is. Years ago I went on a guitar forum and lasted about 6 months..

lol..yep.

Best thing ever was a video of a guy at a party who learned a pretty technical DragonForce guitar solo. He was playing it in front of people and they were kind of impressed and half interested.

The same song was on guitar hero, so some other kid put it on expert and played the exact same solo on the xbox. People left the guitar nerd to watch the guitar hero guy and were freaking out like he was a rock star. Funniest thing ever.

tennis_balla
01-27-2012, 11:46 AM
People will judge you on EVERYTHING on a guitar forum. Your technique ("You're not using your pinky enough!!"), to using too light of a gauge on your strings (because if you're not using at least 11's you're not man enough), your choice of picks, choice of gear, your stomp boxes, and then there are the tube amp snobs...don't get me started, its endless.

I went to a guitar shop recently and asked a guy working if he can order some Herco Flex 50 picks. I had one with me and showed it to him just in case cause most of them are dumber then a pile of rocks. He grabs it, starts examining it, bending it, shows it to his co-worker and then proceeds to tell me "Thats pretty thin...". No sh*t Sherlock! You know, if he haven't of told me that I would of never known!!! :roll:

rkelley
01-27-2012, 11:46 AM
lol..yep.

Best thing ever was a video of a guy at a party who learned a pretty technical DragonForce guitar solo. He was playing it in front of people and they were kind of impressed and half interested.

The same song was on guitar hero, so some other kid put it on expert and played the exact same solo on the xbox. People left the guitar nerd to watch the guitar hero guy and were freaking out like he was a rock star. Funniest thing ever.

Let me see if I understand this:

People were more impressed with a dude playing a plastic guitar with a couple of buttons to a recording than someone playing a piece of music live on an actual instrument? Please tell me I'm not understanding something here.

Power Player
01-27-2012, 11:49 AM
Yes.

Yes they were. lol.

No one cares about guitar shredding anymore. Everything is now ADD driven.

tennis_balla
01-27-2012, 11:52 AM
Yea, just looks at all the kids posting videos of themselves playing video games on Youtube showing off their kill streaks and high scores.
Music is disposable nowadays. When I taught at Newcombes the fulltime academy juniors told me that a 6 month old song was already old and boring.

tennis_balla
01-27-2012, 11:57 AM
Actually, come to think of it this elitism exists in tennis as well. With guitars if you own a Marshall JCM 800 or similar, a Les Paul etc. a lot of the times people get this elitist attitude. Here on TT its Wilson BLX90, Head Prestige Mid, anything thats no bigger than 95 sq in and it has to weight over 12ounces. If you're wielding a Babolat Pure Drive or Aero....hack!

"OH EM GEE I walked onto the court with my 5 Federer BLX 90's strung with gut and ALU set to the exact specs Roger has. I set my bag down and opened it up, letting my opponent see my prized possessions. The look on his face was priceless as I knew I already won the match! I bageled and french fried him in 45 min, and it doesn't matter if he was only 10 years old, that guy takes private lessons!"

Power Player
01-27-2012, 12:21 PM
Auditions were also interesting. Showcasing Bands always look for players with good gear because tone is so important. All the guys I played with that got signed at one point had killer gear. I got tons of gear as well once I got my breaks, but usually sold it off.

One thing that is cool is the companies would give me prototypes and charge me like $40 a month payment plans. And then they would give me guitars and basses for half off. One acoustic company gave me a $3500 guitar and the payment was $6 a month!! lol. Still writes me and wants to know what I am doing now.

Anyway the point is that we were always looking for good players with good tones. So if you were a killer player and had bad gear, once you got signed to a deal you would be rolling around with protoypes and high end guitars. The gear reps partied harder than the musicians and hooked them up with all kinds of loaners to try. I got drank under the table by a few amp reps in my day.

I think the JCM800/Les Paul and the Babolat with ALU or whatever is a nice comparison because it works. You know if you have an LP and a Marshall the tone is there. Its now up to you to make it your own and write great music.

The main reason for tone "snobbery" boils down to tracking. Certain guitars and basses just track better and when you are in the studio looking for tones, it is way easier for the engineer to get you dialed in when he knows your guitar amp combos and what mics work best with them.

Anyway just my experience with gear..kind of like tennis I would imagine. Once you get the setup that allows you to be comfortable and do what you want, you tend to want to stay with it.

Once I got to a pro level, I was very scared to make changes to my tone or amps..I knew what got me to where I was at and did not want to change. I would imagine that is what it is like for a tennis pro as well. You stop lusting for gear because you have made it, and now you have other things to lust after, like wins, record sales..etc.

rkelley
01-27-2012, 01:08 PM
Yea, just looks at all the kids posting videos of themselves playing video games on Youtube showing off their kill streaks and high scores.
Music is disposable nowadays. When I taught at Newcombes the fulltime academy juniors told me that a 6 month old song was already old and boring.

Interesting, because I know a number of kids who are interested in older music from the 70s and 80s. They don't like the current stuff. For my own kids: have one kid who is into Journey, Kansas, and Simon and Garfunkel, and the other likes harder stuff like Iron Maiden, Black Sabbath, and Mega Death.

arche3
01-27-2012, 05:12 PM
lol..yep.

Best thing ever was a video of a guy at a party who learned a pretty technical DragonForce guitar solo. He was playing it in front of people and they were kind of impressed and half interested.

The same song was on guitar hero, so some other kid put it on expert and played the exact same solo on the xbox. People left the guitar nerd to watch the guitar hero guy and were freaking out like he was a rock star. Funniest thing ever.

do you have a link to the video? I kinda want to see it sorry....

tenapasi
01-27-2012, 08:12 PM
I think there are on-the-middle-type of guy.
On the contrary of a person who doesn't know bit about tennis gear that just play with anything they have and play very good tennis, this type knows a lot about tennis gear.

They know a lot about racquet type and spec. How balance can affect things, string type and such. People who can feel the way their racquet behave on court.

But, this type doesn't get lost and brag or debating on the internet about tennis gear and such. Instead, they use this knowledge so they can find the right setup for them that will improve their tennis and then stick with it.
The rest, they just focusing on various aspect of their game.

Each and everyone and have their own views about tennis. It's your attitude on court that counts.

rufusbgood
01-27-2012, 09:53 PM
tenapasi, please don't bring this thread back on subject. If ever a thread deserved to be hijacked it's this one. Allow me to return us off course...

I only have a classical guitar, an Alhambra. Gorgeous tone. Loved the way it sounded in the store. Got it home, ended up putting it in the closet. Too bright for my apt. It sat there for a couple years till I moved to a place with wall to wall carpeting. Now I love it again.

tennis_balla
01-28-2012, 01:04 AM
You tone snob!

tennis_balla
01-28-2012, 01:10 AM
Power Player, I know what you mean by sticking to one type of gear. I'm just a bedroom player but for the most part I figured out what works for me guitar wise. Took me a while though but I don't see myself changing. Tube amps as you know for the most part do sound so much better but its always the guy playing and his settings that makes the difference. People online love to rag on the Marshall MG series amp, and although I've never played one and yes they are cheap practice amps but this guy puts all those tube snobs to complete shame with an MG. Been watching his videos for a while, awesome player. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkaNpOBW95w

zapvor
01-29-2012, 06:37 PM
Your gear is not nearly as expensive though, so there is a money factor to it and also an exclusive aspect (many guitars are much rarer than sticks) that you probably would not understand if you don't play.

agreed. but then you can speak of car forums then. thats way more expensive.

zapvor
01-29-2012, 06:39 PM
Actually, come to think of it this elitism exists in tennis as well. With guitars if you own a Marshall JCM 800 or similar, a Les Paul etc. a lot of the times people get this elitist attitude. Here on TT its Wilson BLX90, Head Prestige Mid, anything thats no bigger than 95 sq in and it has to weight over 12ounces. If you're wielding a Babolat Pure Drive or Aero....hack!

"OH EM GEE I walked onto the court with my 5 Federer BLX 90's strung with gut and ALU set to the exact specs Roger has. I set my bag down and opened it up, letting my opponent see my prized possessions. The look on his face was priceless as I knew I already won the match! I bageled and french fried him in 45 min, and it doesn't matter if he was only 10 years old, that guy takes private lessons!"

this is exactly my point. thank you. so many people on here talking about leading up and customizing and butt cap weights and momentum of inertia and swingspeed and buying scales to match and which replcament grip is better and on and on

but they never post a video of them even hitting, much less playing.

Limpinhitter
01-29-2012, 06:48 PM
take a holistic view on everything they have said so far - look at some older posts...you will soon find if they have tendancies to know what they're talking about, or not...and wether they seem to have integrity, or not...

Hahahaha! Now your just asking for too much. TT posters don't want to have to think. They prefer a video that they can have a feeding frenzy about and assign an NTRP rating to. I think this obsession about ratings has had a significant detrimental effect on this forum.

Limpinhitter
01-29-2012, 07:00 PM
I know what you mean but I've met some great people through guitar forums.
The gear tinkering with guitars is even more then with tennis. The industry is so huge, and the amount of products that are available not to mention all the custom stuff is insane. Then add to that vintage gear and its history and you got a massive multi-billion dollar industry, something tennis isn't even close to achieving. The majority of people don't play their instruments much, not in a way to improve and become good but rather to just collect gear and boast with NGD threads.

Hahaha! It's called G.A.S. - gear acquisition syndrome. Try a drummer forum sometimes. The talk of that "holy grail" snare drum, or "Old K" Zildjian ride cymbal, or "Round Badge" Gretsch drums, never ends. Of course I'm talking about jazz snob drummer forums, not those crass, vulgar, death metal drummer forums. Those morons don't know anything, especially music.

I'll tell you a short story about gear. A few years ago, I was invited to sit in with this local jazz band. After the set, the drummer whose kit I was playing told me that his ride cymbal, an "Old A," was origninally owned and played by the immortal, Philly Joe Jones. Suffice it to say that when I recovered from the shock of that revelation I informed its current owner that when playing it, I could have sworn I had heard it before, it was that distinctive. I asked him if he thought that it might be the same cymbal that Philly Joe used on the Miles Davis albums "Workin'" and "Steamin'." He shrugged his shoulders and said "maybe." I almost went in to shock again. Of course, the next day I went straight to the Clerk of Courts and had my middle name changed to "I played on Philly Joe Jones ride cymbal."

Limpinhitter
01-29-2012, 07:04 PM
It's not just the gear on guitar forums. They are loaded with technique wannab snobs who sneer if you don't know what an inverted isotonic fallopian mode is. Years ago I went on a guitar forum and lasted about 6 months..

Bahahahaha! Classic!

zapvor
01-29-2012, 07:23 PM
^yup yup yup

Limpinhitter
01-29-2012, 07:24 PM
Your gear is not nearly as expensive though, so there is a money factor to it and also an exclusive aspect (many guitars are much rarer than sticks) that you probably would not understand if you don't play.

I once knew a fellow who, in his late 60's, needed money and decided to sell his 1957 Fender Stratocaster, that he bought new. So, he put it up for sale in some guitar magazine. Well, another fellow from New York called him and offered him $250,000 for it. However, when the New Yorker flew down to conclude the transaction he lowered his offer to $175,000 because some of the original parts were missing. Sold! But, he later complained about getting lowballed.

Timbo's hopeless slice
01-29-2012, 07:52 PM
Not at all, professional players offer free lessons each and every time they step out onto a tennis court.

This, they even do it in glorious slow motion so you can actually see teh swing path and contact points..

bhallic24
01-29-2012, 07:58 PM
So this occurred to me and i think i am onto something here.

a huge majority of the posters here (say 78%?) who are constantly posting in the various sections and talking about their game and how their latest string set up is working/ not working out and which shoes are better than which other shoe, and rating other people who post on here, etc are in fact not high level players themselves.

the exception is for those who post in, say Adult Leagues and tournament section.

i say this because having come across so many high level tennis players i eventually bring up gear talk, and it seems the better the player the less they know about gear. and to compound this fact, all the posters in this section who go on and on criticizing other people's level, mechanics, technique, what have you, never post a video of themselves. again, there are exceptions to this theory.

ok am i ready for the blacklash? lol


I kinda have to agree with that. I'm pretty mediocre, have my good days and bad. As my game started getting better and better I could care less what brand name racket I wanted to get or what string set up I covetted. I didn't care who's shoes I was wearing, all I wanna do is win!

But back in the day, boy I could tell you which pro is using which racket and what spec is which racket and what string setup is good for spin and this and that. Now I could care less, just wanna improve my game and have a good time. And thru not worrying about the gear and maybe realizing that the gear isn't my problem, my game has picked up.

Timbo's hopeless slice
01-29-2012, 08:04 PM
. One acoustic company gave me a $3500 guitar and the payment was $6 a month!! lol. Still writes me and wants to know what I am doing now.

I bet his name was Bob...

zapvor
01-31-2012, 03:38 PM
I kinda have to agree with that. I'm pretty mediocre, have my good days and bad. As my game started getting better and better I could care less what brand name racket I wanted to get or what string set up I covetted. I didn't care who's shoes I was wearing, all I wanna do is win!

But back in the day, boy I could tell you which pro is using which racket and what spec is which racket and what string setup is good for spin and this and that. Now I could care less, just wanna improve my game and have a good time. And thru not worrying about the gear and maybe realizing that the gear isn't my problem, my game has picked up.

yep. i used to care about all that too, but now that i am learning more about the game itself i realize thats where the focus should be. its astounding to see how far tennis has come in the last 40years