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View Full Version : Using angles - What a difference.


luishcorreia
01-19-2012, 02:16 AM
A couple of weeks ago I did this very interesting exercise on tennis practice focusing on using the angles.

Such a simple drill - you only need some cones - and very helpfull.

It just opened up another dimension to my game -> The Angles.
I already did this drill several times. You can actually do it when rallying with a friend without him even noticing it.

Now, when playing I have a more broader view of the court, and of what my options are.

I'm a 4.0 players but I used to just hit the ball aggressively, but many times co the center of the court, but now I can move my opponent from side to side and just open up the court.

Some diagrams and the full drill explained here:
http://online-tennis-blog.blogspot.com/

Tell me what you think.

Thanks.

monomer
01-19-2012, 09:42 AM
That looks like a good drill. I see a lot of pusher type players use angles to outplay "better" players that tend to use the center of the court much more.

LeeD
01-19-2012, 10:56 AM
I'm the guy who is always saying everyone hits up the middle trying to hit harder with more spin. I say this after seeing almost every vid of a set.
I also usually LOSE the match when I run more than my opponent.
I usually WIN the match when my opponent runs more than me.
Isn't that true for everyone? Why hit safely up the middle, when you can go within 3' of the sidelines, hit shortangles, and make your opponent run WIDER than his doubles sidelines?

5263
01-19-2012, 11:34 AM
I'm the guy who is always saying everyone hits up the middle trying to hit harder with more spin. I say this after seeing almost every vid of a set.
I also usually LOSE the match when I run more than my opponent.
I usually WIN the match when my opponent runs more than me.
Isn't that true for everyone? Why hit safely up the middle, when you can go within 3' of the sidelines, hit shortangles, and make your opponent run WIDER than his doubles sidelines?

Pretty good post!

5263
01-19-2012, 11:37 AM
The easiest ball to attack is one that is shorter and lands with little pace near the center T.

If you can hit closer to the side Ts, the ball is much harder to attack for several reasons, and must be even more of a sitter to be attacked effectively by most players.

sureshs
01-19-2012, 11:42 AM
Big problem is to get out of rally mode and start hitting angles during a match. The mindset has to completely change. It is always difficult for me because all my opponents are friends and I find it difficult to make the switch from nice guy to mean guy.

5263
01-19-2012, 11:45 AM
Big problem is to get out of rally mode and start hitting angles during a match. The mindset has to completely change. It is always difficult for me because all my opponents are friends and I find it difficult to make the switch from nice guy to mean guy.

Excellent point.
Most folks don't want to hit with a guy who is using the court well. lol.
It becomes quite a habit to work the middle half of the court to keep the rally going.

Nellie
01-19-2012, 11:51 AM
Try a slight variation where you hit cross court for defensive shots (anything you are hitting near/behind the base line) and go down the line for aggressive shots ( you are hitting inside the baseline. It give you less running but also cuts down on errors from changing direction.

LeeD
01-19-2012, 11:56 AM
I also like 2 on 1 hitting, where the one hits 2 shots to each player, while the 2 try to make the 1 run. Rotate every 10 minutes or so.
I abhor mindless rallying from the baseline, where the ball goes up the middle every time. I like to end rallies by going broke, usually attempting the winner after 6 total balls are hit.
WAAAY to many great rallyers where I play, and once a set begins, they mindlessly rally.

5263
01-19-2012, 12:00 PM
A couple of weeks ago I did this very interesting exercise on tennis practice focusing on using the angles.

Such a simple drill - you only need some cones - and very helpfull.

It just opened up another dimension to my game -> The Angles.
I already did this drill several times. You can actually do it when rallying with a friend without him even noticing it.

Now, when playing I have a more broader view of the court, and of what my options are.

I'm a 4.0 players but I used to just hit the ball aggressively, but many times co the center of the court, but now I can move my opponent from side to side and just open up the court.

Some diagrams and the full drill explained here:
http://online-tennis-blog.blogspot.com/

Tell me what you think.

Thanks.

Good basic info, and your instructor should have shared it at 3.5. : )
Seriously though, good stuff.

gregor.b
01-19-2012, 12:10 PM
Good basic info, and your instructor should have shared it at 3.5. : )
Seriously though, good stuff.

Probably right there. I have been doing that drill (or close enough) for 5 or 6 years now. There are a couple of variations on it also. You can also have it where 1 person goes down the line exclusively and the other goes cross court. Then you swap. Then you are happy you don't have to do it again for a few days.

Off The Wall
01-19-2012, 12:13 PM
I abhor mindless rallying from the baseline, where the ball goes up the middle every time. I like to end rallies by going broke, usually attempting the winner after 6 total balls are hit.
WAAAY to many great rallyers where I play, and once a set begins, they mindlessly rally.

I agree. There is gold in those edge rallies. You get to try out shots on the edge of your repertoire. Learn where to place them. Where to recover to. All without duress. It extends learning from technique to competing.

luishcorreia
01-19-2012, 12:54 PM
Some guys here are talking about shor angles...the focus on this drill is on depth, ok?

LeeD
01-19-2012, 01:37 PM
Not OK.
YOU mentioned only angles.
Now you limit this discussion only to depth.
Depth is great, but only one tool to get the job done.
Angles make the opposition run. Hard deep balls without angles is not effective against anyone who just blocks the ball back. With only depth, the opposition needs only to wait well back, knowing you don't hit angles, short angles, or short shots.
I thought you were 4.0. Your thinking is waaay liimited.

Ducker
01-19-2012, 02:13 PM
I find when playing older players its not effective at all to hit hard topspin deep. These old players are very crafty and they just absorb the pace and use against their opponents. Rather a smooth controled approach is better vs them. Nice smooth swings controling the ball from side to side hitting the short angles as comfortably as possible.

LeeD
01-19-2012, 02:38 PM
Agree here.
Being an older player myself, I'm seldom bothered by depth or pace, unless we're talking 5.5 stuff incoming.
What really bothers me is shots hit within 3' of the sidelines, and expecially short angles hit there. Those take me beyond my doubles alley, which I cannot cover.

luishcorreia
01-19-2012, 02:56 PM
Not OK.
YOU mentioned only angles.
Now you limit this discussion only to depth.
Depth is great, but only one tool to get the job done.
Angles make the opposition run. Hard deep balls without angles is not effective against anyone who just blocks the ball back. With only depth, the opposition needs only to wait well back, knowing you don't hit angles, short angles, or short shots.
I thought you were 4.0. Your thinking is waaay liimited.

Just because you have "GOAT" written beneath your avatar doesnt allow you to say other people are limited. Have manners!

What I was saying is that the drill my tennis pro passed on to me had the objective to keep the other guy moving but make him stay behind - hence depth.

I was referring only to the drill objective - as it was said to me by my tennis coach.

Anyone can do it in his own way. I wasnt making any afirmation of any other kind. Yet!

luishcorreia
01-19-2012, 02:59 PM
Just because you have "GOAT" written beneath your avatar doesnt allow you to say other people are limited. Have manners!

What I was saying is that the drill my tennis pro passed on to me had the objective to keep the other guy moving but make him stay behind - hence depth.

I was referring only to the drill objective - as it was said to me by my tennis coach.

Anyone can do it in his own way. I wasnt making any afirmation of any other kind. Yet!

Besides ... on my post I clearly state "(...) always aiming for the outside area defined by the cones, e.g. the yellow area in the image bellow".

If the cones are near the baseline...it must be depth...

I'm just saying...

LeeD
01-19-2012, 03:14 PM
Sure, but somewhat limited thought process.....
Modern tennis is the topspin game. During baseline rallies, depth is NOT nearly as important as placement near the lines, or jamming the opponent. The topspin keeps the opponent back, so depth is not nearly the issue it was back say.....20 years ago.
And with the advent of topspin, came SHORT ANGLES, the single most important factor in passing shots or making the opponent run during baseline rallies.
Depth is old hat, if you can hit with heavy topspin.
Yes, I know, that last blanket statement is really NOT true. But it can apply for most hard hitting players.

luishcorreia
01-19-2012, 03:19 PM
Sure, but somewhat limited thought process.....
Modern tennis is the topspin game. During baseline rallies, depth is NOT nearly as important as placement near the lines, or jamming the opponent. The topspin keeps the opponent back, so depth is not nearly the issue it was back say.....20 years ago.
And with the advent of topspin, came SHORT ANGLES, the single most important factor in passing shots or making the opponent run during baseline rallies.
Depth is old hat, if you can hit with heavy topspin.
Yes, I know, that last blanket statement is really NOT true. But it can apply for most hard hitting players.

I agree...

5263
01-20-2012, 04:35 AM
Sure, but somewhat limited thought process.....
Modern tennis is the topspin game. During baseline rallies, depth is NOT nearly as important as placement near the lines, or jamming the opponent. The topspin keeps the opponent back, so depth is not nearly the issue it was back say.....20 years ago.
And with the advent of topspin, came SHORT ANGLES, the single most important factor in passing shots or making the opponent run during baseline rallies.
Depth is old hat, if you can hit with heavy topspin.
Yes, I know, that last blanket statement is really NOT true. But it can apply for most hard hitting players.

IMO this is one of your best posts ever!
well said overall there Lee.

luishcorreia
01-20-2012, 08:22 AM
I agree with Lee (after the initial communication problem) :)

However depth is key..

Follow my reasoning here.

I agree that angles are what allows you to win a point, by moving your opponet around and opening up the court. But can you do that if you are pinned 5 feet behind the baseline?

No!

So, depth will keep the other player from generating angles against YOU!
When we have a neutral ball, we need to place it deep and try and get a slightly shorter ball from our opponent and THEN, go for an approach shot and / or an angle.

Of course that when you are hitting deep you can also hit to one or the other side of the court. That was the objective of the drill I posted.

Take a look at this image: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Ry_YNWDtW5s/TvytNMMIzFI/AAAAAAAADMg/zGzYqIcmrJw/s400/Courts+-+Diagramas.png

When you are in position 1 you can only do a small angle. As you enter the court you are able to do increasingly sharper angles.

5263
01-20-2012, 10:54 AM
I agree with Lee (after the initial communication problem) :)

However depth is key..

Follow my reasoning here.

I agree that angles are what allows you to win a point, by moving your opponet around and opening up the court. But can you do that if you are pinned 5 feet behind the baseline?

No!

So, depth will keep the other player from generating angles against YOU!
When we have a neutral ball, we need to place it deep and try and get a slightly shorter ball from our opponent and THEN, go for an approach shot and / or an angle.
.

Partly true, and actually one of the best reasons for depth I've seen anyone write on here (to limit angles by the opponent), but the depth in question is where the opp strikes the ball, and has little to do with where the ball bounces. With good pace and spin, you can use shorter, safer, angled targets to open up the court some, along with earning a short/soft ball to attack with a bigger angle. With modern strokes and string, we can easily hit some pretty nice angles from 5 ft behind the BL if we train to do it with the idea of putting the opp on the move vs trying to hit clean winners.

LeeD
01-20-2012, 11:54 AM
And don't forget, if you're standing farther back, you can hit your short angles WIDER than just your center of the nettape area. The ball will be dipping more by the time it clears the net, giving you more angle.
And if you hit with enough spin, ala Nadal and Verdasco, few opponents STAND IN to take your groundies. Those that do are named DJ or Fed, that's all.