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DoctorBackhand
01-21-2012, 08:47 AM
Seeing as to how there is very little info on the 2 handed forehand, I figured I would make it easy for everyone by putting all the info in 1 thread. Here we can discuss grips, swingpath, and other things instead of scattering it across many different threads.

Dave Smith's articles on tennisone..
http://www.tennisone.com/newsletter/template/2.22.09.newsletter.html
http://www.tennisone.com/magazine/iwells/07/smith/2-fh/2fh.php

TW 2 Handed Forehand Threads
Grips
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=319925
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=117654
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=319550
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=371585
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=345700
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=45829
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=13288
Rackets
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?p=6264006&posted=1#post6264006
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=382424
Instructional
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=402891
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=409715
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=82447
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=386212
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=172829
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=247095
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=165209
Miscellaneous
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=393833
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=148691
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=56069
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=145778
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=353833
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=306457
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=10320

2 Handed Forehand Club
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=186578

Pros using 2 Handed Forehand
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=297438

Advantages of 2 Handed Forehand
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&ved=0CGcQFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Ffaculty.shc.edu%2Fddean%2Fdocumen ts%2FThe%2520Advantages%2520of%2520a%2520Two.doc&ei=xvQaT8PlDonu0gHzxfjECw&usg=AFQjCNGviN-ugZ2tKKfXL0nD_4pA_H2waw&sig2=ZDOGmTrOpXK-p2nlRQnJcw

2 Handed Forehand Instructional videos
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3849FCABA026E7DA&feature=mh_lolz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5JaTL5k5MU&list=FLh1mbMy7vKZsI0XXgPltigQ&index=4&feature=plpp_video
Feel free to post any links I may have missed.

HEADfamilydynasty
01-22-2012, 10:12 AM
bump...........

USS Tang
01-24-2012, 03:11 AM
Thanks, Doc. As a two-hand forehander, I appreciate your posting all those articles.

DoctorBackhand
01-24-2012, 06:29 AM
Thanks, Doc. As a two-hand forehander, I appreciate your posting all those articles.

No problem at all! Just trying to make it easier to find the info we all need at one point or another.

CoachingMastery
01-24-2012, 06:48 AM
I too would like to express appreciation for the good Doctor! It is most helpful for those considering the shot, or want to understand the mechanics, potential, and limitations of a two-handed forehand!

With the rise of more players finding success, whether it be a club player who has struggled for years finding a more effective forehand, (or a more consistent one!), the junior looking to develop a foundation on the forehand, (which I've found with twenty years of teaching the shot, a two-handed forehand provides a huge advantage to developing an advanced foundation stroke pattern), or the potential pro, the ability to examine, define, identify and emulate a shot that is still considered 'unconventional,' (we heard that same term in the early 1970's when a couple players started showing up with two-handed backhands!), is critical.

I've written several articles on the shot, in addition to the two posted by DoctorBackhand, that can be found at TennisOne.com. (As well as a few sites that have mysteriously posted my articles without permission...but, I'm okay with that if it helps players in the long run!)

Thanks again for taking the time to accumulate this info, Doc!

Brian11785
01-24-2012, 07:39 AM
I'm a 3.0 player (was probably a 2.0 or 2.5 this time last year) who's been playing for almost two years. Last summer, I decided to give the two-handed forehand a try. My one hander was all over the place (and even when hit "well" for me, wasn't that good.) I was expecting the stability of the other hand to improve my consistency, but I was shocked at how quickly my 2HFH became my favorite and most dominant shot.

As far as grips go, I've experimented with just about everything. But I've found the combination that works for me: hit both forehand and backhand with symmetrical grips. I start out with both hand at semiwestern forehand grips on each side, and right after I split step and rotate my core, I move the front hand to continental (left hand for my forehand and right hand for my backhand.) And then after my shot, I reset back to semi-western and semi-western until my next split step. That's the combination that is optimal for me.

DoctorBackhand
01-24-2012, 07:44 AM
I'm a 3.0 player (was probably a 2.0 or 2.5 this time last year) who's been playing for almost two years. Last summer, I decided to give the two-handed forehand a try. My one hander was all over the place (and even when hit "well" for me, wasn't that good.) I was expecting the stability of the other hand to improve my consistency, but I was shocked at how quickly my 2HFH became my favorite and most dominant shot.

As far as grips go, I've experimented with just about everything. But I've found the combination that works for me: hit both forehand and backhand with symmetrical grips. I start out with both hand at semiwestern forehand grips on each side, and right after I split step, I move the front hand to continental (left hand for my forehand and right hand for my backhand.) And then after my shot, I reset back to semi-western and semi-western until my next split step. That's the combination that is optimal for me.

Are you my clone? I was in this exact same position! School work and weather make it very difficult to find any time to play, so I couldn't master any shot, let alone a 1 hander. The 2 hander just makes it easier to get back in the game after a long break, and is quickly becoming my better shot.

2handsbothsides
01-24-2012, 10:44 AM
Thanks Doc, now I have to read all those articles.

I have played 2 handed tennis both sides for almost 30 years. Switched to tennis from basketball in my early 30's and had spent a lot of time shooting and passing with either hand. I realized very quickly I could play tennis a lot better using both hands, but the racket felt too short, so I lengthened a few.

Once the length rule went into effect I played at 29" for quite a while, but now play best at 28". 27.5" feels like a toothpick and is too short for me.

I also hit a lot of one handed volleys and slices with either hand so I have terrific court coverage, at least for my age.

halalula1234
01-26-2012, 03:55 AM
do most pros with 2hfh have an extra long racket?

Brian11785
01-26-2012, 08:25 AM
do most pros with 2hfh have an extra long racket?


I know Bartoli gets her Prince custom-made to something like 29 inches. I don't know about Seles, Peng, etc.

USS Tang
01-26-2012, 08:47 AM
In a word or two, can anyone tell me how to hit a topspin 2HFH versus a flat 2HFH? Is it the motion of the swing or the position of the racket face at point of contact with ball? Or is it both? I need some help on this.

CoachingMastery
01-26-2012, 11:26 AM
In a word or two, can anyone tell me how to hit a topspin 2HFH versus a flat 2HFH? Is it the motion of the swing or the position of the racket face at point of contact with ball? Or is it both? I need some help on this.

Hitting flat versus topspin with two hands isn't much different than any other groundstroke: flatter, you need a more horizontal swing path, topspin, you need a more vertical path.

Two hands tends to emphasize the topspin component because of the natural inclination for the off hand to pull the racquet up within the swing path. However, you can over ride this by doing two things:

Start with a higher backswing;
Raise the dominant elbow more through contact.

Both these tips flatten the swing out.

Good luck!

BevelDevil
01-26-2012, 12:29 PM
I start out with both hand at semiwestern forehand grips on each side, and right after I split step and rotate my core, I move the front hand to continental (left hand for my forehand and right hand for my backhand.) And then after my shot, I reset back to semi-western and semi-western until my next split step. That's the combination that is optimal for me.

Ha! Interesting. I told my practice partner she should use continental/continental as a ready position. She said that felt weird. Maybe I can get her to try your idea.

Brian11785
01-26-2012, 12:41 PM
Ha! Interesting. I told my practice partner she should use continental/continental as a ready position. She said that felt weird. Maybe I can get her to try your idea.

Awesome. I started out doing that, thinking that, worst case scenario, if I got caught unprepared, I could actually hit a shot on either side with those grips (could be wrong, but I think continental and continental was how Jimmy Connors hit his backhand.)

But for some reason, using the forehand grips as the ready position seems less cumbersome and more intuitive to me. Maybe it's because my right hand for my forehand (and, to a lesser extent, left hand for my backhand) is the dominant hand for the shot, so I swing more confidently knowing that dominant hand is in the correct grip position even before the beginning of the swing.

Brian11785
01-27-2012, 10:22 PM
We should post some videos of our two-handed forehands in action. I would love to see how people here hit it. I will try to film some matchplay or practice hitting some time within the next week or two and post it here.

HEADfamilydynasty
01-28-2012, 09:24 AM
Working on posting some video in the spring. Hopefully i'll be able to do it during Febuary break.
When you post your vids I'll put the link in the OP.

acintya
01-30-2012, 02:23 AM
hello my club of 2handers! :P nice topic, it really should be sticky!:)

i have read all the topics but i still am strugling to find the perfect racquet for my game. i see you guys use for the most part heavy racquets but i play with a stock head youtek extreme mp and fits my game well... the most i like it on the serves.... but i have problems on backhand with returning wide angled groundstrokes....then my return is too weak and i dont have enough power... i wanna smash the ball from all areas of the court and i am starting to think you cannot do this well with a "light" racquet. does someone have a similar story? why do you all like this redondo racquet so much? :P

Brian11785
01-30-2012, 04:23 AM
My racquet (Yonex RDIS 300) is about the same weight as yours, I believe (a little over 11 oz.) I have put another .4 oz in lead tape on the racquet (.3 wrapped under the overgrip and .1 at 6:00 and 9:00 in the head.) To me, that is the perfect compromise between a racquet light enough for serves (and one handed volleys/slices), yet one heavy enough to take advantage of my two-handed potential on groundstrokes. I say, play with the heaviest racquet that you feel comfortable serving with.

DoctorBackhand
01-30-2012, 05:57 AM
hello my club of 2handers! :P nice topic, it really should be sticky!:)

i have read all the topics but i still am strugling to find the perfect racquet for my game. i see you guys use for the most part heavy racquets but i play with a stock head youtek extreme mp and fits my game well... the most i like it on the serves.... but i have problems on backhand with returning wide angled groundstrokes....then my return is too weak and i dont have enough power... i wanna smash the ball from all areas of the court and i am starting to think you cannot do this well with a "light" racquet. does someone have a similar story? why do you all like this redondo racquet so much? :P

If you look up the Redondo talks thread in the racket section you'll see why. It is a very low powered racket, extremely comfortable, and customizable. Seeing as to how you want to smash the ball from all areas of the court, the redondo might not work too well unless you have less modern technique.

If you want something like the extreme then I suggest you demo (if you can) this
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Head_MicroGEL_Extreme/descpageRCHEAD-HMGX.html

if you just want more power than try these..
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/descpage-PO3W.html
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/descpage-PO3HS.html
or, if you don't mind Babolats
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Babolat_Pure_Drive_GT_Plus/descpageRCBAB-BPDGTP.html
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Babolat_Pure_Drive_Roddick_GT/descpageRCBAB-BPDRGT.html
The shock from impact will be evenly distributed to both arms, so don't worry too much about getting tennis elbow from a pure drive. I'm not actually that knowledgeable in the racket department so you might want to see what someone else has to say.

Brian11785
01-30-2012, 07:16 AM
I'd consider the over 11 oz. Yonex racquets. They generally have huge sweet spots. I've hit with the RDIS 300, RDIS 100 MP and the RQIS 2 Tour and liked them all. Also, there's a two hander here who uses the RDIS 100 MID. Too heavy for me to serve, but at $85 right now on TW, it is a REAL steal. Heard nothing but good things about it, for people who can handle the heft.

USS Tang
01-30-2012, 08:37 AM
I am right-hand dominant and hit a 2HFH on the right side and a 1HBH on the left side. The reason for two hands on the forehand is a shoulder injury I suffered a couple of years ago. Adduction (swinging toward the body) hurts it; abduction (swinging away) causes no pain. Hence, my unusual set-up.
I have been very happy with my newest racket, a Prince EXO3 Red. It is 27.25 inches long weighing about 10.4 ounces strung with a 105 square inch head and 16 X 19 string pattern. For the record, I am 66 years old, 5'7" tall and weigh about 160 lbs.

DevilsChildXD
02-06-2012, 08:28 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5JaTL5k5MU&list=FLh1mbMy7vKZsI0XXgPltigQ&index=4&feature=plpp_video

USS Tang
02-07-2012, 04:51 AM
Great vid, DevilsChildXD!

Brian11785
02-10-2012, 06:07 AM
The forehand in that college match video is pretty explosive. Nice.

tennis_pr0
02-10-2012, 06:42 AM
One of my hitting partners, who is number one open player for his section and I woul say at the very least a 5.5 if not higher, plays with a two handed forehand and it works very well for him.

Brian11785
02-10-2012, 07:27 AM
A moderately-paced 2HFH is just so much more of a consistent shot (for me.) The problem is, I know how solid it is, so I tend to go for more than I should sometimes, negating this added consistency. Tennis self-sabotaging at its finest. This looks to be the case with the two-hander in the video as well. A lot of unforced errors.

Out of curiosity, what grips do you guys use for your 2HFH and backhand? For the forehand, I'm at SW and continental. And the same for my 2HBH (with the hands switched of course.) I'll occasionally go a little more towards Eastern with my left hand on the backhand side.

USS Tang
02-10-2012, 09:39 AM
I'm right-hand dominant. In the backcourt when I want to hit topspin, right (bottom) hand is semi-western; left (upper) hand is extreme continental. In doubles, I use two continental grips and hit flat, figuring there's no time to generate topspin.

Brian11785
02-10-2012, 01:28 PM
Do you use two continental grips to volley with?

USS Tang
02-10-2012, 02:03 PM
Absolutely.

LeeD
02-10-2012, 02:31 PM
Double conti 2 handers like FrewMcMillian and GeneMaybe were atop the doubles scene for more years than their skill level should have allowed.

DoctorBackhand
02-10-2012, 03:14 PM
A moderately-paced 2HFH is just so much more of a consistent shot (for me.) The problem is, I know how solid it is, so I tend to go for more than I should sometimes, negating this added consistency. Tennis self-sabotaging at its finest. This looks to be the case with the two-hander in the video as well. A lot of unforced errors.

Out of curiosity, what grips do you guys use for your 2HFH and backhand? For the forehand, I'm at SW and continental. And the same for my 2HBH (with the hands switched of course.) I'll occasionally go a little more towards Eastern with my left hand on the backhand side.

Double eastern for both forehand and backhand.

Brian11785
02-10-2012, 06:07 PM
Double eastern for both forehand and backhand.

Congrats, that was a tough one for me. I think this is how Bartoli plays, right? I like to hit the ball early, and I was hitting everything over the fence with this grip. You really have to wait for the ball.

Brian11785
02-10-2012, 06:12 PM
Absolutely.

Impressive. I will hit a two-handed backhand volley most of the time, but on the forehand side, I usually hit the one-hander. Two hands if I'm caught off-grip coming forward.

At the baseline, I love slicing forehands and backhands with one or two hands. You might (or not) be surprised at how many 3.0 players can't read those shots. One of my main hitting partners says that he doesn't know my forehand from my backhand hehe.

LeeD
02-10-2012, 07:16 PM
HaroldSolomon used double SW, as does most players under 5'8".
You should try double conti underspin volleys. At least for a hitting session, to see the power and control it gives you.

USS Tang
02-11-2012, 04:22 AM
I find that with a double continental grip I am able to impart slight topspin on my two-hand forehand volleys at the net. It provides an extra surprise for my opponent, especially if the volley is angled.

DoctorBackhand
02-22-2012, 01:21 PM
How do you guys handle shoulder high 2handers? Bartoli just smacks the heck out of them, but I'm wondering if there is any other way to deal with them.

Brian11785
02-23-2012, 06:29 PM
How do you guys handle shoulder high 2handers? Bartoli just smacks the heck out of them, but I'm wondering if there is any other way to deal with them.

I mean, on a high ball, you have more room for error to hit your reply flat. That's typically what I'll do.

USS Tang
02-26-2012, 10:41 AM
I smack a high ball as hard as I can, swinging from high to low. Usually it goes back deep with slight underspin.

Brian11785
03-02-2012, 08:59 AM
Just got a text message from my main hitting partner. Apparently he was explaining to his tennis pro neighbor about how his forehands are too loopy and all arm.

The pro recommended he try switching to a 2HFH, which would teach (force?) him to rotate and use his body better.

DoctorBackhand
03-02-2012, 02:15 PM
^^^Sounds about right according to Dave Smith.

DoctorBackhand
03-09-2012, 06:30 PM
Good news. Going out to hit this Sunday, going to bring the camera so I can try to get some video for you guys.

P.S. Sorry in advance for the horrible hitting you will see. Still shaking off winter rust.

DoctorBackhand
03-11-2012, 04:28 PM
Sorry but no video today. In all my excitement I forgot that I don't have a tripod.

Brian11785
03-12-2012, 07:55 AM
Can't wait to see the vid. I am on a pretty low-calorie diet for the next couple weeks, so I am not sure I'll have the energy to hit outside my mandatory league matches during this time, but I'd like to eventually get around to filming some points/machine hitting.

Last Monday, I blindly signed up for a hitting group at a local park. Unbeknownst to me, the group was for 3.5 or better players (I have only been playing since summer of 2010 and hover around .500 in my 3.0 league.) After the initial nerves of feeling in over my head went away, I was shocked at how well I was keeping up with the group. Towards the end, we played tiebreaks, and I beat a guy soundly that plays 4.0 singles (granted, maybe he wasn't trying as hard as I was.)

Point is, I don't have a lot of experience playing against really big hitters. But I think I much prefer it to the slow, slice-y and shanky game that is 3.0 singles. In my league, I find myself as the aggressor and hitting a bunch of unforced errors. But, in my points against these harder hitters, I found myself playing more defensively and using their pace. Didn't think I'd prefer that, but it was actually pretty awesome, since I was actually able to use my footspeed, a quality which doesn't come into play much in my 3.0 league. Point #2: Reach on the 2HFH is an overemphasized liability. If your anticipation and speed are good enough, it is a TOTAL non-issue IMO.

DoctorBackhand
03-12-2012, 02:26 PM
^^^ I know what you mean. I only play against people above my level because it forces me to develop everything faster and like you said, it is more fun to blast the ball and have it blasted back at you. No better feeling in the world :)

P.S. Its not an issue if your opponent doesn't hit angled shots. Once your in the doubles ally it becomes a major liability if you keep both hands on the racket (which I tend to do a lot).

Brian11785
03-28-2012, 08:34 PM
Beat a guy 6-2, 6-1 who beat me last July before I switched to the 2HFH. In the previous match, I lost a set 0-6.

Can't be a coincidence.

Ashanti
03-28-2012, 08:50 PM
So excited today was my first competitive match in a city tournament playing with my new 2 hand forehand and i won my match 6-3, 6-2

It was amazing cause my coach was saying i have controlled power now. So jazzed to hear that cause for the past months all i would hear being yelled is control the power

Brian11785
03-28-2012, 09:08 PM
Ashanti, awesome. That is a common phrase I've said/read in these 2HFH threads: controlled power. We have more control/consistency with the two hands, so we feel more confident to take bigger cuts at the ball. So the result tends to be a shot with more control AND more power. You can't really argue with that outcome.

Ashanti
03-28-2012, 09:18 PM
Thx brian yea she was a tough opponent to she hit with alot of spin and air in her shots high kick so alot of over my shoulder balls but i just was on and was ripping them flat and getting alot of depth as with my single hand forehand they would have gone in net

USS Tang
03-29-2012, 11:45 AM
I still cannot get over how much power I am able to generate, especially hitting flat and cross-court.

kenny22
03-30-2012, 07:29 AM
Which string pattern do you all use which do you feel helps a to hander more if feel an open pattern is best as with my 2hand4hand i hit flat 80 percent of the time so an open string gives me so free spin atleast i feel it does i wonder how a 18x20 pattern would work well what do u all think

kenny22
03-30-2012, 07:33 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j23IfXzEkM
in case u didnt see it

Ashanti
03-30-2012, 02:37 PM
Which string pattern do you all use which do you feel helps a to hander more if feel an open pattern is best as with my 2hand4hand i hit flat 80 percent of the time so an open string gives me so free spin atleast i feel it does i wonder how a 18x20 pattern would work well what do u all think

i prefer open pattern cause i like to hit flat so need a lil spin help

USS Tang
04-01-2012, 01:07 PM
Hate to sound like a whiner, but I'm a righty and lately I've developed left low back and left hip pain, which I think has resulted from the combined rotational torque and simultaneous knee bend required by the 2HFH shot. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there anything I can do to avoid it?

Brian11785
04-02-2012, 08:14 PM
Hate to sound like a whiner, but I'm a righty and lately I've developed left low back and left hip pain, which I think has resulted from the combined rotational torque and simultaneous knee bend required by the 2HFH shot. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there anything I can do to avoid it?

It seems like I had a similar issue when I was first developing the stroke. It eventually went away, but I think it was from the combination of rotational torque and reaching for balls with two hands I had no business reaching for. If you're having the same issue, I'd say know your limits: don't force the full-stretch two-hander. Either set up closer to the ball or, if you can't, stretch out with just the one hand. I have a nice slice and squash 1HFH when pulled out wide that I never had until I started hitting the 2HFH.

Ashanti
04-02-2012, 10:16 PM
Hate to sound like a whiner, but I'm a righty and lately I've developed left low back and left hip pain, which I think has resulted from the combined rotational torque and simultaneous knee bend required by the 2HFH shot. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there anything I can do to avoid it?

Yes i through my back out in a match a few weeks ago cause im just a power player so when i swing my 2FH i get a lot of back twist basically my coach stated me do a few yoga strecths before i get on court for a match it really helps im so serious the streches novak does in this video are the same i do now and i dont have then pain anymore

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4b-Uj5GFSkQ

Ashanti
04-02-2012, 10:17 PM
do you think since we are using 2HF the racket for a 2H player should be atleast 100 if not bigger

USS Tang
04-03-2012, 02:55 AM
Thanks, Brian and Ashanti. Lessons to be learned: (1) stretch before playing; and (2) don't reach too far with two hands; use one hand instead.

DoctorBackhand
04-03-2012, 02:59 PM
do you think since we are using 2HF the racket for a 2H player should be atleast 100 if not bigger

Doesn't really matter but 100-98 is a good place for anyone to start, whether a 1 hander or 2 hander.

DoctorBackhand
04-03-2012, 04:47 PM
I've been studying a lot of the 2 handers in my playlist the last few days, namely Johnny Wang (thanks to the poster who introduced me to that video), Julien Knowles, the college player Tarun Kishan, Yan Zi,and Shuai Peng. Besides them all having the same grip of SW/Conti there wasn't really anything similar about the men's forehands and the women's forehands. Is it that male 2 handers, like their 1 handed counterparts on the tour, prefer the more modern forehand while the women tend to do a more old school forehand?

http://youtu.be/RgzHpgEGXbU
http://youtu.be/rZQHhyJ6FV4
http://youtu.be/pKf0-oHbB0s
http://youtu.be/4jDf4OsatrA
http://youtu.be/3c5oXjMcQJI

Other male college players
http://youtu.be/Gkk2KEymIwc
http://youtu.be/l5JaTL5k5MU

DoctorBackhand
04-04-2012, 03:13 PM
On a side note if there are any people here who know how to edit video would it be possible for you to do a video analysis of a pro 2 hander showing things like prep, contact, etc...? The only person who has one is hi10spro. Its okay, but I believe a better quality video could be made.

Brian11785
04-04-2012, 08:09 PM
Tang, something else. Thinking about my pulled muscle from a couple months ago, I thought of something else, maybe most important:

I know on the 2HBH, there are competing factions that claim that the shot should powered mostly by the dominant or non-dominant hand. For the 2HFH, there really isn't an option in my experience. Your shot should be power mostly by your dominant hand. I'd say at the very least, it should be equally powered by each hand. Anything more than that, and I think you might be pulling with your non-dominant side in a way that is not natural.

Also, I went out and recorded a little bit of ball machine hitting tonight. Should have it up over the weekend.

Brian11785
04-04-2012, 08:50 PM
Well, going through the footage that I took, only one video is decent. I didn't have the camera high enough, so the sidelines are not in frame. Seeing as most of (and the best of) my hitting was cross-court drills, I was not left with much. Towards the end of my session, I had the machine on oscillate. Here it is, warts (I apologize for some of those slices....eek!) and all.

http://youtu.be/ROlp9eHHh9c

FYI, I am currently in 3.0 flex leagues, where I hover around .600 to .800 (probably moving up to 3.5 soon), and who's been playing less than two years and have been hitting the 2HFH since last July or August, I guess. Putting it up more as a show-and-tell as opposed to in order to be critiqued, but I wouldn't reject any pointers anyone had.

Brian11785
04-04-2012, 08:59 PM
I lied. Here's another. Again, some of those 1HFH slices are bad. I sometimes lose the racquet-face angle when switching from topspin to slice. Working on it.

http://youtu.be/Md1gynJPAjo

CoachingMastery
04-05-2012, 12:03 PM
I lied. Here's another. Again, some of those 1HFH slices are bad. I sometimes lose the racquet-face angle when switching from topspin to slice. Working on it.

http://youtu.be/Md1gynJPAjo

Brian, I like your strokes on both sides. One suggestion on both, hold your finish longer, both the stroke as well as your balance point with your feet. You will gain better overal balance on each shot, your stroke will be more defined as well as repeatable, and you will develop better stroke awareness and feel. Other than that, your swing path is excellent and your body position is good for the 2hfh.

Thanks for posting your strokes! (I've been teaching the 2hfh for 18 years with outstanding success!) Good luck to you!

Brian11785
04-06-2012, 09:22 AM
Brian, I like your strokes on both sides. One suggestion on both, hold your finish longer, both the stroke as well as your balance point with your feet. You will gain better overal balance on each shot, your stroke will be more defined as well as repeatable, and you will develop better stroke awareness and feel. Other than that, your swing path is excellent and your body position is good for the 2hfh.

Thanks for posting your strokes! (I've been teaching the 2hfh for 18 years with outstanding success!) Good luck to you!

Thanks Dave! That means a lot! I will give the your suggestion on the finish a shot.

DoctorBackhand
04-15-2012, 07:09 AM
Adding another video to the list from fellow poster Dizzlmcwizzl....The guy in orange is the 2 hander.
http://youtu.be/hKVR6aMwueA

Brian11785
05-11-2012, 10:00 AM
Question: How good of an idea to use Monica Seles as a model for stroke production? When I watch her old matches on YouTube, I am struck by the extent to which she generates pace by (among other things) pushing off her back foot. Unless she is on a full stretch, she has a dramatic push off almost every time. How advisable is this? It obviously worked for her, but I wonder if it might wear you out after a while.

CoachingMastery
05-11-2012, 01:05 PM
Question: How good of an idea to use Monica Seles as a model for stroke production? When I watch her old matches on YouTube, I am struck by the extent to which she generates pace by (among other things) pushing off her back foot. Unless she is on a full stretch, she has a dramatic push off almost every time. How advisable is this? It obviously worked for her, but I wonder if it might wear you out after a while.

Not specific to her ability to take balls earlier, generate good momentum through both footwork and body angular momentum that two hands helps contribute to, the fact that if you work a two-handed forehand stroke within the proper mechanics, it is significant, I've found, in developing a more advanced forehand foundation in terms of stroke mechanics, balance, footwork intent, and topspin acquisition for a majority of players.

Having taught the stroke for over 20 years, (and having taught tennis for a total of 35 years), I've seen the difference in how players who are taught the two handed forehand develop into better players on the forehand side as a whole, even those who evolved this two-handed foundation into a one-handed forehand.

I've done many articles on the subject so I'll end by saying that having taught thousands of players, around a 100 who became ranked either division, state, nationally, or world-ranked, I've seen how both teaching approaches work and can say objectively, those taught a two-handed forehand gain a more fundamentally sound forehand as well as being able to hit a repeatable, reliable stroke more on command than conventionally taught players.

DoctorBackhand
05-12-2012, 11:18 AM
http://www.playerdevelopment.usta.com/pdmediabooks/assets/women/Marion%20Bartoli/PerformanceAnalysis.html

Some video of Bartoli's forehand. Not that great,but considering that there are barely any out there its pretty good.

ben1948
05-13-2012, 07:41 PM
Not having noticed this thread, I posted one asking about a pro who is experienced at teaching the 2HFH.

I'm a former 4.5 player who hasn't played for 10 years because of some foot issues which I think are at long last better and want to try again, maybe limiting my play to doubles to start with.

I have a 2 handed backhand (2 eastern forehand grips) which was almost immediately better for me when I switched in 1982, perhaps in part because I am fairly ambidextrous. I have never been fully happy with my forehand, probably when I was playing my best, I would hit mostly moderately heavy looping topspin FH, slicing when hitting at extremes of reach. What bothered me the most was not having a reliable forehand "kill" shot on those high bouncing short or midcourt balls.

I'm a big fan of good coaching, so as I say in the subject line, I am looking for a coach here in the Houston area. Dave Smith mentioned Scott Adams, but I can't seem to find contact information for him.

Dave, mentions older folks (I am 63, 6'4", 220, in good health, but not as flexible as I used to be) doing well with the 2HFH, but does my lesser flexibility cause any problems with this stroke?

I'm also interested in more discussion about what type of racket, racket weight, string pattern, and tension suit this game best.

USS Tang
05-14-2012, 03:21 AM
ben1948, as to racket selection, let me say that I'm shorter than you and 3 years older, and I have been very satisfied with the Prince EXO3 Red 105. For the benefit of a 2HFH, it is slightly longer at 27.25" and slightly larger with a headsize of 105 sq. in. It is also relatively light at a strung-weight of 10.4 oz. whch facilitates the wrist suppination-pronation phase of the stroke.

USS Tang
05-14-2012, 03:23 AM
ben1948, I forgot to add that the racket has a 16 x 19 string pattern, which I string with Prince Synthetic gut at 55 lbs.

USS Tang
05-20-2012, 02:00 PM
How important is arm-swing on the 2HFH? The reason I ask is that, after about a year of practicing, I find the key to the stroke to be suppination of the bottom wrist, pronation of top wrist then just the reverse at the moment of ball contact. In effect, I'm punching, rather than stroking, the ball.
The sequence for a right-hander is (1) racket back; (2) surround ball; (3) bend knees; (4) suppinate right wrist-pronate left wrist; (5) suppinate left wrist-pronate right wrist; and (6) finish stroke with racket up and toward left shoulder.
Is this technique acceptable?

gilly2571
06-13-2012, 06:29 AM
My new 2 handed forehand. Had arm problems (surgery etc.) and consistency issues with the one handed forehand. Now have neither thanks to this thread and hours of hitting against a school wall for two months this winter. Also bought Dave Smith's book which actually covers the stroke... The video is of me hitting cooperatively with a friend at less than half speed. Please comment. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeEnKZm_2IM

CoachingMastery
06-13-2012, 09:59 AM
My new 2 handed forehand. Had arm problems (surgery etc.) and consistency issues with the one handed forehand. Now have neither thanks to this thread and hours of hitting against a school wall for two months this winter. Also bought Dave Smith's book which actually covers the stroke... The video is of me hitting cooperatively with a friend at less than half speed. Please comment. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeEnKZm_2IM

Gilly, I love the fluid stroke patterns on your 2hfh as well as the complementary aspects to your 2hbh. You are a great role model to demenstrate how smooth and nearly effortless the shot can be hit. And I know you are only hitting at half speed, if that. I'll bet you can crank the shot as needed with a lot of spin as well as angles when you need it as well as penetrating pace too.

I hope my book was helpful in your development and you continue to play with even more effective strokes as you play longer with the shot.

How long did you say you have been hitting it? You look very comfortable and stable with the most important element: "A repeatable, reliable swing path" accomplished very clearly in your strokes.

Best wishes on continued pain-free play and success!:)

CoachingMastery
06-13-2012, 10:00 AM
How important is arm-swing on the 2HFH? The reason I ask is that, after about a year of practicing, I find the key to the stroke to be suppination of the bottom wrist, pronation of top wrist then just the reverse at the moment of ball contact. In effect, I'm punching, rather than stroking, the ball.
The sequence for a right-hander is (1) racket back; (2) surround ball; (3) bend knees; (4) suppinate right wrist-pronate left wrist; (5) suppinate left wrist-pronate right wrist; and (6) finish stroke with racket up and toward left shoulder.
Is this technique acceptable?

The two handed forehand should not be a punch. Look at Gilly's strokes above and I think you will see a great example of hitting the two-handed forehand with fluid consistency and that power will almost automatically come through confidence. The 2hfh should be very close to a conventional one-handed forehand in most aspects.

gilly2571
06-13-2012, 10:33 AM
Gilly, I love the fluid stroke patterns on your 2hfh as well as the complementary aspects to your 2hbh. You are a great role model to demenstrate how smooth and nearly effortless the shot can be hit. And I know you are only hitting at half speed, if that. I'll bet you can crank the shot as needed with a lot of spin as well as angles when you need it as well as penetrating pace too.

I hope my book was helpful in your development and you continue to play with even more effective strokes as you play longer with the shot.

How long did you say you have been hitting it? You look very comfortable and stable with the most important element: "A repeatable, reliable swing path" accomplished very clearly in your strokes.

Best wishes on continued pain-free play and success!:)

Thanks so much Dave. I started practicing it in January after looking at videos on youtube that was found on this thread. Then began to use it in doubles matches in February. I really didn't get to hit it that often as I am always at the net. In May I used it in singles matches and really started getting consistent and confident with it. Much more so then my ex-one handed fh. hehe And you are right, I can really amp it up when needed as long as I stay balanced and have the proper foot work. (Like every other stroke in tennis I guess)

Anyway, am having a blast with it as it has elevated my game tremendously, not to mention I am able to play free of pain. Or as pain free as a 50 year old can be playing 5x a week. :0

SoBad
06-13-2012, 10:35 AM
Thanks for sharing the videos.

gilly2571
06-13-2012, 02:57 PM
No problem SoBAd. I hope it helps someone who is thinking about using the 2hbh. It can be learned in pretty quickly.

gilly2571
06-13-2012, 03:01 PM
Thanks for sharing the videos.

No problem SoBAd. I hope it helps someone who is thinking about using the two handed FOREHAND I meant. It can be learned pretty quickly.

]No problem SoBAd. I hope it helps someone who is thinking about using the two handed FOREHAND I meant. It can be learned pretty quickly.

Brian11785
06-20-2012, 10:34 AM
Not bragging, but showing what confidence in your strokes can do.

When I was last using a one-handed forehand in July(?) of 2011, I was hovering around/slightly under .500 in my local club's 2.5 singles league.

Less than a year later, I won the entire city (Dallas-Ft Worth) championship in 3.0 LeagueTennis singles. Moving up to 3.5 next season. I get so many compliments on my "backhand" which is actually my forehand.

ynnek20
06-20-2012, 01:35 PM
What racket and string setup are you all using if don't mind sharing

Brian11785
06-20-2012, 03:24 PM
What racket and string setup are you all using if don't mind sharing

I have a Prince TT Warrior OS leaded up to about 12.0 oz (almost all of it in the handle) strung. Before that, I used the Yonex RDiS 300. I was satisfied with the old racquet, but the Warrior is exactly as its name suggests. A beast. AND CHEAP!

Sadly, it looks like TW has finally run out of stock of this decade-old frame. Maybe some more will come along soon, because it's pretty perfect for me.

I'd like to hit with the Prince Original Graphite OS or one of the Pure Drive +'s, just to see how they compare to my current frame; they seem well suited to the 2HFH.

As far as string goes, I use Gamma Zo Tour 16 at about mid-tension. I've experimented with other polys, but this is the one I always go back to.

USS Tang
06-21-2012, 06:04 AM
Coaching Mastery, you're right: the 2HFH should not be a "punch." After looking at Gilly's video, I realized that I follow-through the same way he does. Let's just say that I "punch-through" the ball at contact. The supination-pronation (and then the reverse process) gives the ball its pace. I always finish with my arms extended. Going cross-court, I will often hit the 2HFH flat; going down the line, I use top-spin to get up and over the higher part of the net..

CoachingMastery
06-21-2012, 05:04 PM
Coaching Mastery, you're right: the 2HFH should not be a "punch." After looking at Gilly's video, I realized that I follow-through the same way he does. Let's just say that I "punch-through" the ball at contact. The supination-pronation (and then the reverse process) gives the ball its pace. I always finish with my arms extended. Going cross-court, I will often hit the 2HFH flat; going down the line, I use top-spin to get up and over the higher part of the net..

Excellent hitting strategy! I hope other 2hfh players will post here. It is growing in popularity and success across the board...and, considering the number of reticent and ignorant (or closed mined) pros who won't even learn the stroke as a possible learning tool...let alone finding the huge weapon that the two-handed forehand can be, there are a relatively high number of players using it. (Especially in Asia and Europe!)

Thanks for your post and letting us know your own experiences! Good luck and continued success to you and those who have posted similar notes here!

Brian11785
06-22-2012, 07:25 AM
Question: On your 2HFH and (I'm assuming) 2HBH, what would you say is the dominant hand for each shot?

For me, a righty, the right hand is the dominant hand for both. The forehand is more of a forehand and the backhand more of a backhand. When I try to hit my 2HBH as "left-handed forehand with the right hand there for support" as I've heard to do by some coaches, it ends up being stiff and uncoordinated. Focusing on the right hand pulling the racquet instead of the left hand pushing it works so much better for me.

USS Tang
06-23-2012, 02:15 PM
If you're asking me, I hit a one-handed backhand and a two-handed forehand.

Lovely_Bone
06-25-2012, 11:35 AM
My 2-handed forehand is a weapon, but it doesn't even compare to my 2-handed serve!

USS Tang
06-25-2012, 05:07 PM
Lovely Bone, you may jest about the two-hand serve, but I played in a tournament in 1987 in Crisfield, Maryland where a participant actually served with two hands.

Lovely_Bone
06-25-2012, 05:17 PM
Lovely Bone, you may jest about the two-hand serve, but I played in a tournament in 1987 in Crisfield, Maryland where a participant actually served with two hands.

I bet mine is better.

gilly2571
06-26-2012, 03:49 AM
What racket and string setup are you all using if don't mind sharing

I use a ProKennex Kinetic 7g with Babolat VS Team gut. I string them at 57 lbs.

Brian11785
06-26-2012, 07:38 PM
I use a ProKennex Kinetic 7g with Babolat VS Team gut. I string them at 57 lbs.

I am demoing a couple of racquets here shortly (two are not in stock at the moment, so I'm just waiting for those), but that is one of the racquets I'm trying. The others being the Pure Drive GT +, the Wilson Juice Pro BLX and the Prince Original Graphite OS.

I like my current racquet and am really only demo-ing these out of boredom/curiosity. But I will report back how they stack up for my 2HFH. All are extended except for the Prince.

I would love for TW to get more of the Prince Graphite Longbodies in stock. I'd snatch one or two of those up in a heartbeat. My doubles partner uses the Prince Graphite EXO3, and it is really stable, solid racquet. Hitting that thing in the sweetspot feels like heaven. I'd love a longer version of that, which is what the Longbody would appear to be.

Brian11785
07-15-2012, 08:18 PM
Just throwing it out there, but I was skimming though Tennis Mastery and found a helpful tip intended for the 2HFH. It actually has helped me more on my backhand, but it works for both. The idea that you should keep your front elbow tucked in close to your body on your backswing.

Doing this, I've found that I automatically get more/better backswing, gives me more leverage and keeps me from just "arm-ing" the ball. I tend to do that more on the backhand side than the forehand side.

On another note, I played with the racquets that I mentioned in my previous post. I was shocked to find that my favorite was the Wilson Juice Pro. The Pure Drive was way too light/hollow feeling, the Prince Graphite Oversize felt pretty amazing on groundstrokes but was too heavy for me to serve effectively with, the 7g was decent, but the Wilson felt right. I might pick one of those up once they go on clearance in a year or so.

I also demoed the now out-of-stock Yonex RQiS 1 Tour XL at my local pro shop. Now THAT is a racquet. With overgrips and everything, it weighs about 12 oz, but it is so headlight, that it swings like an 11 oz. And it's a really nice looking racquet as well. The one potential drawback is the 95 sq. inch headsize. Though I didn't find myself shanking too many more balls than I normally do with my 107 in Prince TT Warrior.

USS Tang
07-16-2012, 03:21 AM
Brian 11785, if you use a 2HFH, you might consider playing with the Prince EXO3 Red 105. It is 27.25 " long for extra reach, with a 105 sq. in. head for a bigger sweet spot. It has done wonders for my 2HFH.

Brian11785
07-16-2012, 05:44 AM
Brian 11785, if you use a 2HFH, you might consider playing with the Prince EXO3 Red 105. It is 27.25 " long for extra reach, with a 105 sq. in. head for a bigger sweet spot. It has done wonders for my 2HFH.

That is actually my mixed doubles partner's racquet. She seems to like it. Seems like a good compromise racquet.....large sweetspot and a bit of power without discouraging good technique like a lot of alleged "game improvement" racquets.

I've actually never hit with it. I like a little bit heavier racquet, so I could see myself playing with it, after I've added about an ounce of lead to the handle. :-|

oldhacker
07-16-2012, 06:10 AM
Coaching Mastery - I think all coaches should be open to having players hit 2 handed forehands. Many of the kids I teach naturally do it and I encourage and support it when this is the case. I even have a couple who hit 2 handed forehand off both sides. That is they switch the hands round between forehand and backhand. Both of these kids are very naturally talented and pretty ambidextrous. The parents of one of the kids keep suggesting I stop him from switching his hands to hit his backhand (really left handed 2 handed forehand) but I am telling them to let him stick with it for now as he hits a great ball with it and does the hand switch so seamlessly most don't even notice.

Whether they stick with 2H FH or not it is a great start as it promotes the unit turn and core rotation through the forward swing.

Excellent hitting strategy! I hope other 2hfh players will post here. It is growing in popularity and success across the board...and, considering the number of reticent and ignorant (or closed mined) pros who won't even learn the stroke as a possible learning tool...let alone finding the huge weapon that the two-handed forehand can be, there are a relatively high number of players using it. (Especially in Asia and Europe!)

Def
07-16-2012, 12:02 PM
Does anyone know a player that plays with a two-handed forehand but one-handed backhand (doesn't have to be a pro just wondering)

Brian11785
07-16-2012, 12:04 PM
Does anyone know a player that plays with a two-handed forehand but one-handed backhand (doesn't have to be a pro just wondering)

If you're asking me, I hit a one-handed backhand and a two-handed forehand.

..............

Def
07-16-2012, 12:08 PM
..............

My bad, didn't see that

CoachingMastery
07-16-2012, 12:35 PM
Just throwing it out there, but I was skimming though Tennis Mastery and found a helpful tip intended for the 2HFH. It actually has helped me more on my backhand, but it works for both. The idea that you should keep your front elbow tucked in close to your body on your backswing.

Doing this, I've found that I automatically get more/better backswing, gives me more leverage and keeps me from just "arm-ing" the ball. I tend to do that more on the backhand side than the forehand side.

Brian, yes, the key position point of the front arm's elbow staying close to the body through the contact window does several things and prevents some other problems that I've seen with those who teach to lead out with this elbow.

First, on both wings, it provides a stable point of angular rotation, a 'piviot point' if you will. This makes the swing very repeatable.

Second, this action increases the speed of the stroke taking it from the "linear" aspect of a swing, (which many people could say "pushing" the stroke), to a more angular swing.

Third, it keep the flying "chicken wing" action of this arm from occuring.

Fourth, it increases topspin and allows the other arm to accelerate the swing.

Fifth, it is pretty much what most all top players do on their two-handed backhand and forehands. (There are some variations as to how close and how long the elbow stays close.)

The one caution is to make sure the other arm indeed drives out and up and across so that the player doesn't cramp their swing which often happens when players don't use the other arm correctly. If taught to use the opposite arm correctly, players will find as you have, that the front elbow staying in provides some real key aspects to developing either shot into a consistent weapon.

Thanks for sharing your experiences!

USS Tang
07-18-2012, 10:27 AM
Yes, I am the odd duck who hits a one-hand backhand with a two-hand forehand. Here's why:
Forty plus years ago I played one-handed on both sides and used a continental grip on both sides. That way I never had to change my grip for any stroke, be it a drive, volley, serve, or overhead. Trouble was I could never develop sufficient topspin on the forehand side and my wrist was not strong enough to provide sufficient control on forehands hit down the line. Because the continental grip is ideal for the backhand and because I received excellent instruction, my one-hand backhand became a very effective shot, so much so that my opponents started hitting to my forehand because it was so dismal.
A shoulder injury from a fall on the tennis court three years ago created problems with adduction of my right arm which forced me to go to a two-hand forehand. I could not be happier with the result: more power, more topspin, and more directional control on that side now. Because the adduction motion of the right arm was not affected, I have retained my one-hand backhand.

DoctorBackhand
09-10-2012, 06:30 PM
Here's the video
http://youtu.be/SQXzQCUPnwI

Critique away:)

CoachingMastery
09-11-2012, 07:23 AM
Here's the video
http://youtu.be/SQXzQCUPnwI

Critique away:)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRRzZlrb0s8&feature=plcp

Good job on the analysis. Here is a short clip of my 8 year old daughter working her open stance two-handed forehand.

DoctorBackhand
10-21-2012, 07:56 PM
From earlier in the summer
http://youtu.be/F_xorrS5d2Y

DoctorBackhand
10-22-2012, 04:10 PM
http://youtu.be/Oe9rgwfjSdQ

Going by exact definitions, its the quintessential 2hander. She takes it early a lot of the time and uses angles. She doesn't seem to it with the power Bartoli can, and it seems like she does some weird wrist roll or flick on some of her forehands.

What do you guys think?

Edit: Never mind, she switches her hands to hit a 2 handed backhand on her forehand sde like Gambill. Just realized this after watching her it on an up close video.

DoctorBackhand
12-11-2012, 05:49 PM
Sunday, December 16 at 12pm or 9am, whichever applies on tennis channel.

gilly2571
02-18-2013, 12:15 PM
Just found more video from the summer from a baseline angle. Hitting a little harder here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpr1fkhHESU&feature=youtu.behttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpr1fkhHESU&feature=youtu.be

Brian11785
02-19-2013, 01:55 PM
Just found more video from the summer from a baseline angle. Hitting a little harder here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpr1fkhHESU&feature=youtu.behttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpr1fkhHESU&feature=youtu.be

Some really nice, clean strokes in there. Thanks for sharing!

DoctorBackhand
02-19-2013, 04:09 PM
Some really nice, clean strokes in there. Thanks for sharing!

Thanks for keeping the thread alive. The FH looking good!

Brian11785
02-20-2013, 08:45 AM
I am in the process of adding sort of a loop to my forehand (and backhand) with exciting results. Hope to post some wall or practice hitting here soon.

DaveInBradenton
03-08-2013, 08:14 AM
Hey Two-hand Wonders,

I was going to start a thread on the 2HFH, but did a search first and found this thread. Wow, this is great stuff!

I haven't even read the whole thread yet, but I'm going to start post-haste. It's good to see you 2HFH boyz coming out of the closet, er,.......I mean coming out of the woodwork.

A quick introduction: After leaving the game in 1996, I had a heart attack Jan 2012, decided to retire at 68, and got the bug to see If I could come back. I started in June last year. I quickly developed tennis elbow. Instead of stopping play for several months, I decided to go from traditional one hand both sides, to two handers on both sides. This has worked out great for me. My elbow rarely gives me concern.

Surprise! The USPS guy just stopped by to drop off my 3 TW ProKennex Demos! Kenetic 5G, 7G, and Redondo 98, plus, get this, a POG 110. I used to own a POG and wanted to try one for grins. More on this later........

Best wishes,
Dave

Brian11785
03-08-2013, 04:22 PM
The POG OS racquet pulverizes the ball from the ground. If I could serve with it without my shoulder falling off, I am sure it would be my racquet of choice.

Ashanti
06-11-2013, 09:30 AM
in your opinion what raquets would be good for a 2hander

DaveInBradenton
06-11-2013, 11:20 AM
in your opinion what raquets would be good for a 2hander

I would not recommend specific rackets because there is so much personal preference in racket selection. Try numerous rackets to see what fits your style of play. I will say that with two hands on both sides you can use a heavier racket because of the added leverage.

Have fun,
Dave

Brian11785
06-11-2013, 11:29 AM
I would not recommend specific rackets because there is so much personal preference in racket selection. Try numerous rackets to see what fits your style of play. I will say that with two hands on both sides you can use a heavier racket because of the added leverage.

Have fun,
Dave

Agree with Dave. When I first switched, I got into the trap of thinking I needed an oversize and/or extended-length racquet, since that is what the two-handed forehand pros typically use.

But honestly, these days, having those as qualifications really narrows your options dramatically. The frame I eventually found that I played best with was a standard length, 95 sq inch one (see sig). It's all personal preference. Don't feel as if you have to submit to convention on the matter.

Ashanti
06-11-2013, 08:15 PM
thank you for the information yea i really been thinking it comes down to your own personal needs

brianb76
06-11-2013, 08:26 PM
Try the Yonex Xi100 ezone and Volkl X7 to start.

Lefty20
08-29-2013, 08:24 AM
I think I might posses the oddest play style here. I serve lefty, hit a 2handed forehand (from the left side) and use a 1 handed righty hand forehand instead of the typical(1 or 2 handed) lefty backhand. My left side is definitely my strongest side as I've got a variety of shots I can use with my 2 hander. I've got the basic loopy topspin, flat shot, drop shot, lob shot and a multitude of slices with the 2 hander. However, I have only one consistent shot on the right side : the loopy push shot :(. Occasional I can produce good slices and droppers on that side but they only work at ~ 20% clip.

darthpanda
11-04-2013, 04:22 PM
hey all, glad to see other people playing this way and so much information. for anyone considering this technique, the best way is to go play and experiment with the two hander till it works for you. finally, i have some videos playing with the two hander
http://youtu.be/aeM0U0Mjwg0
http://youtu.be/q9llvYzFoNE
http://youtu.be/xpJn1MnHYOM
http://youtu.be/LQzxtrTyD1U (http://youtu.be/LQzxtrTyD1U)

darthpanda
11-04-2013, 04:31 PM
in your opinion what raquets would be good for a 2hander
any 18x20 racquet will work. the 18x20 pattern will give you more control and if you dare, use polyester (MSV) strings. I would recommend the Wilson Six.One 95 BLX (18x20)

darthpanda
11-04-2013, 04:47 PM
marion bartoli practice videos

http://youtu.be/SxecqIaRd98
http://youtu.be/O7LfJNmg8-U

darthpanda
04-07-2014, 12:28 PM
http://youtu.be/twKTF1cd0C8

darthpanda
04-07-2014, 12:42 PM
http://youtu.be/6d_RTzFfQUE

darthpanda
04-18-2014, 11:10 AM
two handed practice

http://youtu.be/sg1K1xIU8Cs

brianb76
04-28-2014, 08:32 PM
Any other two handers have exceptional trouble playing left handed players??

Any tips??

Brian11785
04-28-2014, 09:13 PM
Any other two handers have exceptional trouble playing left handed players??

Any tips??

Interesting. My favorite directionals are the backhand down the line and the forehand crosscourt. I relish playing left handers and hitting to their backhands all match. Did it to much success against a left-hander with a killer forehand this weekend. The Monica against Steffi strategy--though Monica was left handed and Graf right handed: (assuming you are pretty capable off both wings....which we 2HFH/BH players tend to be, and that the left hander has a less than stellar backhand) just know that your opponent can hit to either side and you'll be fine. Give them the shot they don't want over and over again.

If they are equally balanced, you just have to figure out early in the match which patterns work. You will probably have to tweak your "go-to" patterns with a lefty, but, once adjusted, you should be good. For example, I love hitting inside out slice forehands to the ad corner playing a righty and coming in behind it. I just have to accept that is probably not a good idea against most lefties.

What is the specific problem your are having with left handers?

brianb76
04-29-2014, 10:42 AM
My favorite shot is my forehand down the line (which goes into a lefty's strength)

I have much more success with my backhand against a lefty. My forehand (which is a much bigger weapon) seems to misfire against the lefty spin. I often crowd the ball but even when I don't seems like I still miss more often than I should.

Brian11785
04-29-2014, 11:32 AM
My favorite shot is my forehand down the line (which goes into a lefty's strength)

I have much more success with my backhand against a lefty. My forehand (which is a much bigger weapon) seems to misfire against the lefty spin. I often crowd the ball but even when I don't seems like I still miss more often than I should.

I could see the jamming thing being an issue. I have found that my groundstrokes are a lot better when I keep my upper arms out from my body....super bent works for some people, but not for me. That might help you....would give you some margin to bring your arms closer to your body if something is hit inside and you don't have time to back up. If your shot is already cramped from bent arms, you're screwed.

Other than that, working on directionals with a ball machine or hitting partner has been good practice for me. Befriend with selfish motives a lefty. :)

linustennis
04-30-2014, 04:13 PM
I thought I would post a little bit about my experience with a 2HFH. I started playing tennis again at the end of 2012. I learned basic strokes at 10-11 years old with a pretty good coach, but didn't play from the age of 12-43. I am very athletic and tend to pick up things quickly. I've played sports most of my life, most recently competitive ultimate frisbee. I am 45 now and am 3.5B. I have just not been able to hit a decent forehand. I've invested thousands of dollars and I don't know how many hours (but a lot) in the search for a good, consistent topspin forehand and have come up with nothing. It just feels so awkward and I can't figure out body position, footwork, timing, swing path, racket face angle, or anything. It's just no good. It is a glaring weakness that is easy to pick up on. In matches I always reverted to this horrible slice push. My backhand is excellent. I can hit it with pace, spin and with good directional control. I typically run around my forehand to hit it. After a particularly bad match of embarrassing forehands, I thought, I'll just hit a back hand on both sides, which led me to the 2HFH. I got the Tennis Mastery book, watched some videos (monica seles!!!) and practice it against a wall for at least 5 hours a week on top of my regular playing schedule (10 hrs a week or more). I have been doing 2HFH for about 3 months. These are my problems right now.

I feel very comfortable hitting the 2HFH against the wall and feel my technique is pretty good, but when I actually get out on the court, it's a little different. I hit the fence a lot. When I do hit a good ball, it tends to be a drive low over the net with pace. I have a harder time just hitting a rally ball deep with good topspin. Sometimes I feel like my swing is more like a baseball swing then a forehand.

I have recently started doing this thing where I release my right hand in the follow through to get full rotation. I got this from the TW video of Andre Dome who has a 2HFH and TW is sponsoring him. It kind of feels almost like a lefty 1HBH. I think this helps me get more topspin. I'm also working on keeping my head still at contact and not looking up til after follow through. This is hard to do, but is very helpful when I can remember to do it. I also really try to focus on my left hand pulling across my body, and that my right hand is more along for the ride (i'm righty). Does anyone else get a bad blister on top of their right thumb?

The worst problem I'm having though is that I'm not using it much in matches. I'm still doing the awful slice push most of the time. Because it's consistent and I can get away with it in 3.5. I know that won't be the case in 4.0 though. That horrible forehand is just ingrained in my muscle memory and it's hard to stop it. Also it's easier as you really don't have to have any footwork or timing to hit it.

I also have trouble with it on return of serve, especially on fast serves (against guys or 4.0's). I almost always slice back the return even if it's a short sitter that is just crying out to be crushed!!

Overall I am very happy with it and am hoping with continued practice I can use it consistently and comfortably in matches and have it eventually be a weapon instead of a weakness. Just got to keep practicing. Thanks for starting this thread and all the links. It has been very helpful!!

As far as rackets go, I do like the extended length and oversize as I feel it is also very helpful on my serve. I'm currently using the cheapy prince tt scream os (110) strung with nat gut at 62#. I also have the exo3 red 105 and pog longbody, pog oversize, and the regular pog. i like all of them and will use them intermittently. Part of my problem may be that I can't figure out what racket to use! I'm thinking of experimenting with a poly cross, but still haven't decided on the exact set up. That's it for now, hope this thread stays active. None of the pros that I work with seem particularly thrilled with my new forehand and are encouraging me to go back to one hand. Not sure why that is, maybe I think my 2hfh is better than it really is!

brianb76
04-30-2014, 05:38 PM
The two handed forehand required more precise footwork than a one handed IMO. Try working on your knee bend and get lower and drive up into the ball.
Hitting the fence comes from hitting the ball leaning back or on your back foot. Knee bend and drive forward into the ball.

linustennis
04-30-2014, 06:31 PM
here is a video i took tonight of me hitting against the wall. some 2 hfh and some one handed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vhgY6k_0CQ

linustennis
04-30-2014, 06:43 PM
yes, i definitely need to bend knees and get low and drive low to high and through the ball. sometimes though it just feels like i'm hitting a baseball out of the park. like i'm launching it, just getting under the ball and launching it up. i think i need to relax my hands and arms and just focus on hitting it solid and not hard. I definitely overhit a lot, especially on balls coming at me with no pace.

Maximagq
04-30-2014, 06:47 PM
I was practicing my two handed forehand with my top hand in a continental and my bottom in a semiwestern forehand grip. I have to say it is much more difficult for me to hit that shot than a two handed backhand, so even though it looks really cool, I feel it doesn't have much advantage in the modern game.

linustennis
04-30-2014, 06:53 PM
as far as footwork goes, i think the 2hfh is easier for me because i am better at the closed stance. when i try to hit with the open stance, everything gets messed up. with the 2hfh it makes sense to step in closed stance with similar footwork as backhand. i just can't seem to get the rotational, kinetic chain power thing. i tend to just stand there open stance and arm it. also almost no footwork is required for my slicey, junkball forehand that i use in matches!!

linustennis
04-30-2014, 07:06 PM
maximagq
I use a semiwestern on bottom hand and extreme eastern backhand on top (left hand). so it's almost like hitting a choked up one handed left hand backhand. It definitely feels awkward at first, but after doing it a thousand times it feels right somehow. it has advantages for rec players. Maybe not for pros though certainly there are pros who have been very successful with it. i heard that rafa used a 2hfh up until he was 12 or so. it does help you learn good technique.

DoctorBackhand
05-06-2014, 06:06 PM
Its been a while since I've posted on this thread, so let me start by saying that I hope you're all having a great season so far.

I have a question about the range of the two hander; about how far can you reach before you start to run the risk of injuring yourself? I think I may have tennis elbow following some botched volleys, and there were some forehands I hit that felt very taxing on my arm. Granted, my footwork was lazy and I was out position a lot, so its no surprise that I injured myself stretching for balls I had no business stretching for. Still, I would like to know for future reference.

Also, as strange as this sounds, which part of your body do you feel contributes the most to your topspin forehand? I know it should be the legs, but I don't really feel like I hit too much topspin unless I really exaggerate the low to high motion with my arms.

And, to contribute something more than questions, I do have to thank everyone in this thread for contributing their knowledge and experience. It has helped immensely. So much so that I won my first singles match in years yesterday with my 2hander after a season of nothing but loses. It's nice to have a forehand that I can hit with pace and control, and not be an obvious liability that costs me matches. It's also nice not have arm pain after mishits, and to be able to hit dtl. That's a biggie.

DoctorBackhand
05-06-2014, 06:19 PM
I was practicing my two handed forehand with my top hand in a continental and my bottom in a semiwestern forehand grip. I have to say it is much more difficult for me to hit that shot than a two handed backhand, so even though it looks really cool, I feel it doesn't have much advantage in the modern game.

There are a lot of things that people say don't have a place in the modern game. It's just something that you find a way to work with. It really isn't uncomfortable at all, and it only takes a few good practice sessions to get the hang of it. If you don't find any advantage to it, its probably because you just don't need to use it. For people who have difficulties with their forehand, it has many advantages.

linustennis
05-06-2014, 08:06 PM
Doctor Backhand,
If I'm stretched on my forehand side, I will almost always slice, unless i'm going for a screaming, low percentage, all or nothing winner! The 2hfh is kinda new for me, so under pressure, i will one hand it.
For topspin, I think the big things are hitting it early, out in front as much as i can, and the finish with the butt cap, elbow towards target. also bending knees and getting below the ball, but this only works for me if i finish right, otherwise i launch it!

vicp
06-21-2014, 10:32 AM
I am right-handed and have played 1-handed BH & FH for over 30 years. Sometime last year I developed some elbow issues (TE & GE) trying to keep up with advanced hard hitters, namely my up and coming 20 year old son. The TE (tennis elbow) was mild - had a bad bout about 5 years ago, but the GE (golfers elbow - medial/inside) was something new - never had it before. Anyway, I backed off, video taped my strokes, went to foam and low pressure balls on a backboard, therabar, exercises, stretches, etc., until the elbow healed. The TE went away completely but the GE discomfort lingered a bit but did not bother me while playing. During this time of rehab, played around with the 2HBH and even the 2HFH as a righty. The 2HBH on my left side was never very good, even when I worked on it fairly hard when I had the bad case of TE 5 years prior. The righty 2HFH was interesting but I went back to the 1HFH eventually as it felt better. Once somewhat healed, I was back to righty 1-handed on both sides.

Anyway, about a month ago, I zapped my right elbow working with power tools using steel and brass brushes on a drill to clean a lot of metal including pipe threads. My elbow got fairly sore but when I went to play tennis it just exploded. I couldn't even feed balls on my forehand side - funny though, I could still hit the 1HBH on my left side with pace and no pain.

What to do - I didn't want to stop playing so I just sucked it up, got out my foam and low pressure ball and hit the backboard using my left hand while occasionally coaxing my right side as long as there was no pain. My left side, compared to my right side is fairly weak as I broke my left shoulder about 30 years ago in a motorcycle accident. At first it was like being a complete beginner even though I did some LHFH practicing a 2HBH years ago. The 1HBH with my left hand was even worse - like trying to sign your name with with your non-dominant hand.

Here is the crazy part - about a week ago I tried adding my right hand to my lefty FH and as as my right elbow started feeling better I also added it to my lefty BH on my right side giving me essentially a southpaw (for a right-hander) 2HFH on my left side and a 2HBH on my right side.

I COULD NOT BELIEVE THE RESULTS!!!

The 2HFH on my left side is so much better than the 1HFH on that side and I have better control than I ever did on my 1HBH there also. The 2HBH on my right side is way better than the 2HBH on the left side ever was and I actually have more control on right side also (vs. my right 1HBH). I actually hit with players for the first time 2 days ago in this configuration and was surprised how much I could keep up. The footwork and pace are not there yet but it was so much better than 2H both sides right dominant - but that is a week vs. many years of playing.

Has anybody had anything similar happen to them? I am right-handed, have gone southpaw 2H on both sides and prefer it in many ways to playing right-handed. I can use similar stances on both sides, contact points are similar, see the ball better due to more compact swings and trunk rotation. Overall much simpler and easier strokes so far - also, less strain on the the wrist and elbow joints. It seems that sometimes you have to get run over by a truck to just smell the flowers!

Don't know how volleys will work out yet. The serve could be a problem as my left shoulder flexibility is somewhat compromised (motorcycle accident). Overall I am quite happy to have discovered a new way of playing!!

DaveInBradenton
06-21-2014, 12:04 PM
Good post!

I had a similar experience. When I made a return to the game as a senior citizen after 15 years off, I got tennis elbow fairly fast. Rather than rest my TE, I decided to try to play 2 handed. That worked fine and my TE gradually subsided and I eventually returned to my one hand strokes.

Then I hurt my shoulder. My 2 hand method did not work in this case. My shoulder hurt when played with one hand or 2 hand strokes. I decided I had to give up the game or do something drastic, namely switch from playing right handed to left handed. That was a daunting thought.

However, my brain kicked in and I tried playing left handed WITH 2 hands. It worked surprisingly well. (Why didn't I think of this before!)

In effect what you and I are doing is using a choked up right hand grip with the left hand in a supporting role. We can use our grooved right hand swing patterns on both sides keeping the left hand on the bottom of the racket.

This grip is almost natural on the forehand side. You are hitting a choked up forehand stroke. You might teach a kid this way if you didn't have a shorter junior racket.

On the backhand side, I know how to hit one hand topspin, so using that stroke came fairly easy too. It's a choked up grip topspin backhand swing pattern with the left hand on the bottom of the racket.

The 2 hand strokes certainly are worth a try, both right & left hand style, for anyone having shoulder or elbows issues. With a little luck, this will put you back on the court without pain.

Best wishes,
Dave

DoctorBackhand
08-17-2014, 06:54 AM
Just out of curiosity, what grip do you use for your top hand (assuming you use the dominant hand on bottom approach)?

I always start out with eastern FH, although I do notice my hands inching towards conti sometimes. It feels to me as if spin comes more naturally with eastern, while conti produces flatter shots overall. Obviously this isn't the case, as most people do use conti on top and get plenty if spin. I assume it has something to do with the grip of the bottom hand, or the grip a player uses for the backhand, as the forehand will probably mimic backhand grips. I use eastern on my bottom hand, and use conti/eastern for the backhand.

So, what grip do you use for the top hand and how do you feel it would effect your shot if you changed it?

DaveInBradenton
08-17-2014, 07:30 AM
I suggest using your usual ONFH grip and continental for the top hand.
My reasoning is that the continental grip allows for a less restricted back swing.

However, there is no right or wrong grip for the 2HFH. Your best bet is to experiment with grips to see what works for YOU. (The 2HFH is all about you!)

Try to keep the best parts of your ONFH and just add the top hand for support and to keep a consistent racket path.

Have fun,
Dave

CoachingMastery
08-17-2014, 09:21 AM
I've taught, (and discussed in my two books, Tennis Mastery and Coaching Mastery), using two eastern forehand grips for the THFH. (Seles/Bartoli style). Players can evolve this foundation grip as they develop the shot into a weapon.

DoctorBackhand
08-17-2014, 08:19 PM
Maybe I should reword the question. Do you feel there is any significant advantage or disadvantage between the various top hand grips? Would you see anything limiting about using, for example, an eastern backhand for the top hand? Would it depend on the grip of the bottom hand? Does the top hand grip affect spin in any way?

I apologize for the mountain of questions and the way I worded the previous question. I should have been clearer.

Brian11785
08-18-2014, 07:43 AM
I am with Dave. I use my normal OHFH grip (between SW and Eastern) for my dominant right hand, and continental for top left hand. Don't remember using anything different.

CoachingMastery
08-18-2014, 09:22 AM
Maybe I should reword the question. Do you feel there is any significant advantage or disadvantage between the various top hand grips? Would you see anything limiting about using, for example, an eastern backhand for the top hand? Would it depend on the grip of the bottom hand? Does the top hand grip affect spin in any way?

I apologize for the mountain of questions and the way I worded the previous question. I should have been clearer.

I maintain the bottom hand as the dominant hand just as in a one handed forehand.

There are three grip configurations: two backhands, where you switch your bottom hand, (Jan Michael-Gambil did it this way.)

Keep the dominant hand on top, (as in choking up on the racquet and keeping the non-dominant hand on the bottom for both forehand and backhand. (Gene Mayer did it this way.)

Keep the dominant hand on the bottom for both strokes; a conventional two-handed backhand and what I consider conventional two-handed forehand. (Seles, Bartoli, Peng, among others)

I like this last version best as it complements a conventional one-handed forehand and is actually a great learning tool for the conventional one-handed forehand.

I don't like Gene Mayer as he would have to move the dominant hand down to serve and volley, and then reposition it to hit GS's. However, it is easier to hit two-handed shots initially since the dominant hand is choked up and it is easy to control the racquet for obvious reasons because of this.

Jan Michael Gambil's stroke is the most difficult because it within a forehand or backhand rally, he would have to quickly move his dominant hand up or down depending on a FH or BH. He actually choked up and only had his left hand about half on and half off the grip for his forehand side.

All of these grips are discussed in both my books, Tennis Mastery & Coaching Mastery, the only books in the industry that have in-depth study and descriptions of the two-handed forehand.

DoctorBackhand
08-18-2014, 02:10 PM
So the grip of the top hand doesn't matter? If one were to change their top hand grip from conti to eastern backhand, it would make no discernable difference other than feel? Spin and depth wouldn't be affected?

It just seems strange that that is no consensus about the role of the top hand. It's not like it needs to be on a conti for slice like the 2hbh. Does it really contribute so little to the stroke that it can be any grip and not make a huge difference? It seems strange if that's the case.

Again, sorry for being overly analytical.

Brian11785
08-19-2014, 06:24 AM
I don't think the position of the top hand is as important, but for me, my shot suffers immensely from my top hand being anywhere but continental.

It might have to do with stability....since at SW/cont, my hands are 180 degrees around the handle from the other.

CoachingMastery
08-19-2014, 07:49 AM
As I mentioned, I teach the eastern forehand grip for both hands. This grip configuration allows for the easiest establishment of an Advanced Foundation for the stroke while allowing for personal idiosyncrasies to evolve this foundation grip to be personalized to a person's personal perception of the stroke in terms of adding to the shot.