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Faithfulfather
01-21-2012, 09:39 PM
I am a 37 and overweight. I have had three rotator cuff surgeries, but my shoulder doesn't hurt. I am needing more consistancy. I know my toss needs help (I did hit different serves on video) as does my trophy position. Any help is appreciated. Oh, I am a 3.0 player.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c33/medicdad2005/39153b3e.mp4

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c33/medicdad2005/5e8298a9.mp4

Chyeaah
01-21-2012, 10:24 PM
I would love to see a 193.1 km/h serve. Thats ATP level.

WildVolley
01-21-2012, 10:48 PM
You have a pretty solid motion. You already mentioned that you know you need toss consistency, and you did seem to be chasing your toss around in that clip. So, I suggest practicing your toss.

I think your trophy is a little low at the moment. You are using sort of a Roddick-style trophy, which I like, but I'd like to see the racket a little higher at the trophy like Roddick. Watch a Roddick clip and note how his racket and racket face is higher in the trophy than yours. I think it would help you to develop a little more power without any more effort.

Ideally, you'd do more shoulder-over-shoulder into the serve, while at the moment you are more rotating around your core, but that may be a matter of your weight. Lifting the arm higher without getting more body lean is going to threaten your shoulder, so your current motion may be a reasonable compromise.

Hope something I've noted might be helpful.

Faithfulfather
01-21-2012, 11:14 PM
Thank you for insight. I will look at a clip of Roddick. Yeah my weight is problem. I gained 50lbs while have my total of 5 surgeries. 3 shoulder, 1 back, and 1 ankle. Should not have allowed myself to be a lazy turd during that year and a half.

SystemicAnomaly
01-21-2012, 11:27 PM
A 3.0 player, really? The serve mechanics looks better than many 3.5 and 4.0+ players that I've seen. There is a lot more that is good about this serve than bad. What kind of consistency issues do you perceive? Other issues?

You are getting some fairly decent leg drive on some serves, less so on others. the leg drive appears to be well-timed. Your trophy does not look too bad at all except that your tossing arm sometimes drops a tad too early -- keep it up for another half second or so. This should yield a better trophy and shoulder tilt. Very nice racket head drop for the most part.

When you land on your left foot, make sure that your knee gives a bit more. Also, make sure that you land on the ball of your foot (which I believe that you often do). Bending the knee on landing should help to dissipate stress to the knee and foot. It may be an illusion, but it seems that your follow-thru stops a little bit abruptly on the side view video. Make sure that your right shoulder comes over the top and around to help to minimize stress to your rotator groups.

On the back-view video it appears that you are going for a different type of serve at the 0:22 mark. It appears that your lower body rotates a little bit too much late in the motion. The landing foot points way off to the left and the right leg kicks off too much to the right. Try to left foot pointing toward the target area when it lands. The right leg kicks back toward the back fence rather than toward the side fence.

SystemicAnomaly
01-22-2012, 12:07 AM
^ You do move thru the trophy phase very quickly. This may be why WV perceives your trophy as being low. The quick trophy appears to be a result of the delayed upward motion of the racket head prior to the trophy. You racket head it still down after ball release. The racket delay is reminiscent of Sampras. Unlike Sampras tho', you employ a more abbreviated motion up to (and thru) the trophy.

It does look a bit rushed but I'm not certain if it is really much of an issue. But perhaps it might be something to experiment with a bit.

Faithfulfather
01-22-2012, 06:53 AM
Thank you for your analysis. I will take your help and practice it.

WildVolley
01-22-2012, 09:31 AM
^ You do move thru the trophy phase very quickly. This may be why WV perceives your trophy as being low. The quick trophy appears to be a result of the delayed upward motion of the racket head prior to the trophy. You racket head it still down after ball release. The racket delay is reminiscent of Sampras. Unlike Sampras tho', you employ a more abbreviated motion up to (and thru) the trophy.

It does look a bit rushed but I'm not certain if it is really much of an issue. But perhaps it might be something to experiment with a bit.

Good point. His serve motion is sort of a combination of Sampras and Roddick. My analysis may be off. The key thing is that his kinetic chain is functioning properly, and it seems pretty good now. He is timing the racket drop with the leg thrust.

I agree with SA that is very rare to see a 3.0 or even a 3.5 with as good serve mechanics as you have. If you can stay healthy and lose some weight, I'm sure that your serve will continue to improve.

rufusbgood
01-22-2012, 11:38 AM
Nice motion. I agree with the others that it's way better than a 3.0 serve. Just wanted to thank you for posting mp4's. I was a little annoyed at first that I couldn't just watch on youtube. I had to download Quicktime to view but I gotta say, this is a great program for watching this sort of clip. Was able to watch frame by frame. Cool.

LeeD
01-22-2012, 12:26 PM
Everyone already said you have a good serve up to 4.0.
Seems you might have a serve that is really a blend between first and second, for a tweener serve. Good under no pressure, might be time to adopt a first faster serve, then a second, spinnier and slower serve.
You will not run down too many balls, so a forcing first serve can save your body and legs. A SAFE second serve, hit as hard as you can swing, is needed to advance further.
Since change of direction and speed is not on your horizon, you need better hitting than typical rabbits.

Faithfulfather
01-22-2012, 02:11 PM
Thank you guys for your thoughts. I am 285lbs, when I usually walk around at 230lbs. At 37, it is way harder than it use to be to lose weight. The fact that I'm in college again is not helping. Stress=food for me.

charliefedererer
01-22-2012, 09:34 PM
I am a 37 and overweight. I have had three rotator cuff surgeries, but my shoulder doesn't hurt. I am needing more consistancy. I know my toss needs help (I did hit different serves on video) as does my trophy position. Any help is appreciated. Oh, I am a 3.0 player.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c33/medicdad2005/39153b3e.mp4

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c33/medicdad2005/5e8298a9.mp4

Preventing Rotator Cuff Injury http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTRvxaBMh8s

Listen to Jim McLennan. You have a pretty good vertical shoulder over shoulder action, with less of a horizontal shoulder swing than many posters here, but with your rotator cuff history, try to get it as good as Fed's below:
http://www.mftenniscoaching.co.uk/Motion%20Expert/federer.jpg
Notice how low Fed "drops the shoulder at ball strike in pic 8.



Your serve technique doing more harm than good? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgdXawklcZk

Again, you actually are doing a better job at "aiming your chest at the ball than many posters here, but if you could do it even more, there would be less impingement of the supraspinatus tendon against the acrromion.

Optimally, you want to lean back "from the knees", not by bending the back, and getting your heels well off the court to do this.

http://mit.zenfs.com/218/2011/07/federer-serves-2001-2011.jpg

But I recognize that is going to put a lot of stress on your knees - something that may have to wait until after weight loss.

Similarly, getting more coil into your service motion will also involve more knee bend (it's a lot easier to coil as you bend your knees), so more coiling/knee bend may have to wait.

[I assume you are addressing your weight issue. I really don't want to hear that you are having knee, hip and back problems to add to your prior shoulder woes. You might get some weight loss tips in the Health & Fitness section, as well as a very sympathetic group that might also provide moral support.]

10sLifer
01-22-2012, 10:19 PM
I am a 37 and overweight. I have had three rotator cuff surgeries, but my shoulder doesn't hurt. I am needing more consistancy. I know my toss needs help (I did hit different serves on video) as does my trophy position. Any help is appreciated. Oh, I am a 3.0 player.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c33/medicdad2005/39153b3e.mp4

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c33/medicdad2005/5e8298a9.mp4

Relax, relax, relax. Even at the begining of your motion you raise your arms wich tightens your traps. nt(intuitive thinkers) your personality type is notoriously very tight. You are prob good at math and science too huh? Just be loose through the whole motion. And remember the guy that designed the trophy was a d level player. Think baseball and throwing forward not trophy hitting up. Get that toss way infront, be loss and rip that thing. As far as your weight..... given the current condition of tennis I think you could go very far before you have to worry about fitness. Then it will take care of itself. Good luck!

charliefedererer
01-23-2012, 07:14 AM
Relax, relax, relax. Even at the begining of your motion you raise your arms wich tightens your traps. nt(intuitive thinkers) your personality type is notoriously very tight. You are prob good at math and science too huh? Just be loose through the whole motion. And remember the guy that designed the trophy was a d level player. Think baseball and throwing forward not trophy hitting up. Get that toss way infront, be loss and rip that thing. As far as your weight..... given the current condition of tennis I think you could go very far before you have to worry about fitness. Then it will take care of itself. Good luck!

Sorry, but I disagree. He has to worry about fitness now, especially for tennis. But even in just walking around.

"Small Weight Loss Takes Big Pressure Off Knee
by Jenifer Warner MD Health News

The benefits of weight loss may be multiplied fourfold for people who suffer from osteoarthritis of the knee.

A new study shows that for each pound of body weight lost, there is a 4-pound reduction in knee joint stress among overweight and obese people with osteoarthritis of the knee.

Researchers say the results indicate that even modest weight loss may significantly lighten the load on your joints.

Weight Loss Takes Pressure Off the Knee

Osteoarthritis is the leading cause of disability in the U.S. The disease progressively destroys the cartilage that acts like a shock absorber in the joints and results in pain, stiffness, and eventually loss of movement in the affected joint.

Accumulated over thousands of steps taken each day, researchers say the effects of this reduction of pressure on the knees should have a significant impact on the progression of osteoarthritis of the knee."

"The accumulated reduction in knee load for a 1-pound loss in weight would be more than 4,800 pounds per mile walked," writes researcher Stephen P. Messier, PhD, of Wake Forest University in the July issue of Arthritis & Rheumatism. "For people losing 10 pounds, each knee would be subjected to 48,000 pounds less in compressive load per mile walked." "
- http://www.webmd.com/osteoarthritis/news/20050629/small-weight-loss-takes-pressure-off-knee



And that increased in force from walking is dwarfed by the increased forces of loading/unloading in the serve and groundstrokes. Plus all the extra force from the sudden starts and stops in tennis.

A study in non-overweight tennis players/golfers showed less stress on the knees walking than the one above in overweight patients, but that the stress on the knees was twice as great serving, hitting forehands, and jogging as in just walking [and all study patients had already undergone knee replacements, so this was not in elite athletes.]

"Tennis: Tennis was analyzed in the laboratory as well on the tennis courts (La Jolla Beach and Tennis Club, La Jolla, CA) during actual play. Mean peak forces generated during the serve and during a forehand return were higher than those generated during the backhand return. (Figure 2 compares the knee forces for all activities.) Anterior shear was moderate (0.28 0.12 xBW).
http://lowerextremityreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/1sportsmed-Fig-2.jpg
- http://www.lowerextremityreview.com/article/knee-loads-during-golf-implications-after-tka

Faithfulfather
01-23-2012, 11:43 AM
I really enjoy everyone's opinion and knowledge. I appreciate everyone's input. Thank you. My knees are hurting but that is my weight. I am working on some service changes as we speak.