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View Full Version : How do you get the "pop" sound on your shots?


NE1for10is?
01-22-2012, 01:57 PM
I notice when I watch the college players, and of course the pros, they always get that solid pop sound on every groundstroke. I was even watching a 10 year old girl hitting with a pro yesterday and she got the pop on every shot. I get that sound maybe once in every 50 shots. Not that this is critical to winning in tennis I suppose, but just out of curiosity, how does one get that consistently to happen?

Chyeaah
01-22-2012, 02:31 PM
Hit the sweetspot hard with spin.

Can't think of a name
01-22-2012, 02:35 PM
As you would imagine, the pop happens because the ball is being hit hard. Harder than what most amateurs are used to. Good college players and pros have the fundamentals down in their swing mechanics and you will usually hear that distinctive pop or thud. Most rec players tend to "arm" the ball and the only force they put into a swing is the arm muscles and maybe some shoulder. The power from a heavy pro ball starts with the legs, then torso and shoulder rotation, followed by the arm. Get that kinetic chain down and you'll have heavy strokes too :)

Chyeaah
01-22-2012, 02:48 PM
Take the shock absorber off and you'll get a pop sound

Tennis_Monk
01-22-2012, 03:07 PM
May be there is a device (runs on batteries) that can be stuck onto the racquet and makes whatever sound one desires everytime a ball is stuck.

stormholloway
01-22-2012, 03:11 PM
Hit the sweetspot hard with spin.

No. Spin implies oblique. The more perpendicular the force the more the strings will pop.

The flatter the shot the more it will pop.

Bergboy123
01-22-2012, 03:34 PM
Do string-types come into this?

5263
01-22-2012, 03:39 PM
No. Spin implies oblique. The more perpendicular the force the more the strings will pop.

The flatter the shot the more it will pop.

I agree, flatter gives more of a pop usually.

Chyeaah
01-22-2012, 03:47 PM
No. Spin implies oblique. The more perpendicular the force the more the strings will pop.

The flatter the shot the more it will pop.

Spin will keep the ball in. If you hit it flat, hard enough that it will pop I would assume the ball will fly to the fence.

I assume the BLX Tour is a spin friendly stick, and hitting flat with a spin friendly stick would not work very well.

Bartelby
01-22-2012, 03:49 PM
Babolats seem to sound good more easily.

BobFL
01-22-2012, 04:26 PM
Yeah, when you hit the ss with nice and relaxed form you are going to hear that beautiful "twaaack" :)

Power Player
01-22-2012, 04:31 PM
Take the shock absorber off and you'll get a pop sound

What are you talking about? The ball pops for me and everyone else just fine who uses a vibration dampener.

Chyeaah
01-22-2012, 04:31 PM
Although if you dont have a shock absorber it will go "PIIIIIING"

Can't think of a name
01-22-2012, 04:52 PM
i'll say it again.. the pop comes from proper technique, not vibration damperner / lack thereof, or the brand of racquet you use.

Limpinhitter
01-22-2012, 05:06 PM
I'll take the beautiful "CRRRACK" sound of natural gut and wood.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvpckZmLaEc&feature=related

Power Player
01-22-2012, 05:10 PM
Although if you dont have a shock absorber it will go "PIIIIIING"

Wrong again.

Chyeaah
01-22-2012, 06:19 PM
My racquet pings like crap when i take the shock absorber off... And if you take the shock absorber off its easier to get the pop sound.

kiteboard
01-22-2012, 06:32 PM
I have the smack a lings for sale. Makes the ball explode with sound.

TheOneHander
01-22-2012, 06:37 PM
My racquet pings like crap when i take the shock absorber off... And if you take the shock absorber off its easier to get the pop sound.

That's because you're still a beginner (from what you've said in your posts). Good technique creates the pop sound among other things.

No. Spin implies oblique. The more perpendicular the force the more the strings will pop.

The flatter the shot the more it will pop.

Yep.

Do string-types come into this?

I think in general, equipment does. My Tours are stealthy and silent, but my KPS88 cracks like Guillermo Coria under pressure.

Spin will keep the ball in. If you hit it flat, hard enough that it will pop I would assume the ball will fly to the fence.

I assume the BLX Tour is a spin friendly stick, and hitting flat with a spin friendly stick would not work very well.

Wrong. You can hit flat with a spin friendly stick if you have proper control. And if you can't hit flat balls that pop, then why do flat hitting professionals exist? Heck, anyone with decent experience can do that.

stormholloway
01-22-2012, 06:45 PM
So the OP is watching 10 year olds for cues on how to get 'pop'? I also like how he plays with a Wilson 90.

Methinks OP overestimates his ability.

stormholloway
01-22-2012, 06:49 PM
Spin will keep the ball in. If you hit it flat, hard enough that it will pop I would assume the ball will fly to the fence.

I assume the BLX Tour is a spin friendly stick, and hitting flat with a spin friendly stick would not work very well.

He asked how to get pop. Pop comes from direct, perpendicular shots. That's just science. It sounds like he isn't making good contact. I'm figuring there's an issue with mechanics.

Any racquet can hit flat. Is there such a thing as a flat "non friendly" racquet?

charliefedererer
01-22-2012, 06:51 PM
Can't think of a name properly emphasized that the "kinetic chain" sequence of powering you shots from a leg thrust and core rotation, not just your arm:http://xplosiveathlete.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/kineticlarge1.jpg

So that "pop" does indicate a "slap" has occurred.

Both on the serve and on groundstrokes, the butt of the racquet is directed at the ball and not released until the last second with a sudden pronation movement [NOT a wrist slap].

http://www.yocto-tennis-club.com/images/Tennis-Strokes-Forehand.jpg
Notice in pic 3 that Fed has the butt of the racquet still pointed at the ball even though it is very close to the contact point.

http://www.procomparetennis.net/media/sequence_images/640/75ck1291636036.jpg
See pic 5 for the same on the backhand

http://i56.tinypic.com/10qhpvd.jpg
The pronation process on the serve courtesy of Toly http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=393401&page=2

The Modern Forehand the secret is the Lag By Jim McLennan
http://www.tennisnow.com/News/Featured-News/The-Modern-Forehand-%E2%80%93-the-secret-is-the-Lag.aspx

How to practice pronation so you can incorporate it into your serve (note the nice "pop" from pronation):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iONY6fcqZGg

TheOneHander
01-22-2012, 07:01 PM
So the OP is watching 10 year olds for cues on how to get 'pop'? I also like how he plays with a Wilson 90.

Methinks OP overestimates his ability.

He plays the Wilson Tour, not the Tour 90. You know, the incredibly popular racquet that was spawned from the 5.2?

Mhmmmm.

I do agree with your second post, however. It's difficult to find a racquet that prevents flat hitting, although it's very easy to find some that enhance it

Funbun
01-22-2012, 10:31 PM
I always thought the "pop" came from the acoustics of the court.

I might be confusing that with a "crack". Either way, I think you just want to hit hard, with or without spin. You're gonna get a sound as long as you makes clean contact, I suppose.

Chyeaah
01-22-2012, 10:55 PM
That's because you're still a beginner (from what you've said in your posts). Good technique creates the pop sound among other things.



Yep.



I think in general, equipment does. My Tours are stealthy and silent, but my KPS88 cracks like Guillermo Coria under pressure.



Wrong. You can hit flat with a spin friendly stick if you have proper control. And if you can't hit flat balls that pop, then why do flat hitting professionals exist? Heck, anyone with decent experience can do that.

I can't seem to hit flat with my BLX Pro Open still strung with Head PPS. Well his 4.0 level I'm pretty sure you can get a pop sound?

And I know you can hit flat but its way harder to control. Say a APD and a Radical. It's so hard to hit flat with the APD unless you get it right in the middle of the sweetspot.

Chyeaah
01-22-2012, 11:05 PM
Both on the serve and on groundstrokes, the butt of the racquet is directed at the ball and not released until the last second with a sudden pronation movement [NOT a wrist slap].




You made my day. Never knew this. I know that your racquet has to be facing back abit but never knew that it has to be as extreme as the butt facing the ball.

ace_pace
01-23-2012, 01:51 AM
Lol I used to ask that question my self back when I jjust started tennis. Then one day it just happened.

Its the sign that you are hitting the ball cleanly and heavily. Does not in any way mean your hitting it RIGHT though. Just remember to try and use your whole body, not just swinging your arm at the ball. Im beginning to question that 4.0 rank of urs.

Swingweight
01-23-2012, 03:50 AM
I find it also depends on string choice. Poly at high tension will give you that noise a lot of the time I find. Multis and syn gut more of a ping. But then again they will both pop if you hit the ball hard enough.

NE1for10is?
01-23-2012, 04:18 AM
A little clarification seems to be in order. I'm playing with a BLX Tour and not a 90, and it doesn't have anything to do with the sound, nor does the vibration dampener.

The sound I'm referring to is more of a heavy thud that sounds very intimidating when you hear it, because you know that it's solid contact with the ball. I've rarely hear that sound from anyone at my level. I've only heard it from college level players and above and the occasional junior player.

I like what Charliefederer says about the swing mechanics. (Great videos, by the way.) I have been working on pronating the wrist more and without slapping at the ball. My challenge is to still use the kinetic chain, and pronate, but not be late to make contact with the ball. It makes me wonder if the big difference is the ability to be completely relaxed in the wrist to get the whip that is more difficult to acheive unless you have learned it at a young age.

Interestingly, I do get the pop, or thud, or whatever we want to call it, every time I hit an overhead and I'm sure it's intimidating to an opponent.

Noltae
01-23-2012, 05:12 AM
Stood watching Rafa practicing serves at the WTF 2011 and was surprised how little audible pop I could hear - lots of variables involved regarding that pop/thud - the "loudest" racquet I've used was a dunlop MFIL foamtech - which is of low mass and came strung with a multi at mid tension - quite different to my preference for Babolat PST with low tension poly which also generates good noise - However my Prince rebel 95 with Technifibre BC poly was relatively quiet? Not sure TBH is there is an exact science behind that rather addictive sound - playing indoors helps!

NE1for10is?
01-23-2012, 05:40 AM
He asked how to get pop. Pop comes from direct, perpendicular shots. That's just science. It sounds like he isn't making good contact. I'm figuring there's an issue with mechanics.

Any racquet can hit flat. Is there such a thing as a flat "non friendly" racquet?

Can you explain 'direct perpendicular shots'? How would one achieve that on a consistent basis?

thug the bunny
01-23-2012, 06:12 AM
Hitting the ball with the racket traveling less on a tangent, and more straight down the intended trajectory, ie, flat. I hit flat shots by trying to make the racket finish more at the target rather than up and around.

I have found that the 'pop' sound is very racket and string dependent. My YTK Pres Mid and KPS88 made really loud pops that would echo across the courts. My Redondo makes a fairly good pop with multi, but when I put poly on, it makes more of a 'twang'.

LeeD
01-23-2012, 09:17 AM
Pop...
Swing fast, hit center, and pop appears whether you shot is flat, topped, sliced, or sidespun. Just don't brush the ball.

charliefedererer
01-23-2012, 09:40 AM
You made my day. Never knew this. I know that your racquet has to be facing back abit but never knew that it has to be as extreme as the butt facing the ball.

As Jim McLellan emphasizes on that forehand, the lag in releasing the racquet coming forward from that butt facing the ball until the last possible moment channels all that force into a brief burst of power with that big "pop" the result.

[Indeed in physics, power = energy/time. So to get more power, release the energy over a shorter period of time.]


Nick Bolletieri told his players to imagine the butt of the racquet was a flashlight, and to aim their "flashlight" as if they were aiming a light to shine on the incoming ball.



The same thing is happening on the serve. The picture I posted above was of the pronation movement coming out of the "'aiming the butt of the racquet at the ball".

But in the sequence below, you can see that from the full racquet drop in pic 5, the first two feet of racquet movement is almost straight up at the ball with the butt of the racquet still aimed at it in pic 6.
http://i54.tinypic.com/35j9jxz.jpg

Then comes the release of the hand/racquet in the pronation movement to achieve maximum power and "pop".

(I too often see players start to pull their racquet handle forward too early from the deepest racquet drop position, instead of aiming the butt of their racquet up at the ball as the initial movement out of the drop.)

NE1for10is?
01-23-2012, 02:08 PM
I hit with the ball machine today and practiced some serves, and due to all your advice, focused on aiming towards the ball with the buttcap till the last second with a relaxed wrist and arm, and also the kinetic chain.

I probably had solid contact and heard the 'pop' about 40% of the time, which is about 39% of the time more than I usually do, so this is indeed progress. When I connected well the balls were really flying off the court more than usual for me. The most surprising part was that the backhand (one-hander) was also popping fairly often. That's an entirely new and addictive experience for me. I never get the pop on the backhand in my life before today. I discovered that leading with the buttcap towards the ball on the backhand and letting it fly at the last second was an entirely different feeling than I'm used to. Once that happened a few times, I began to notice how tight my arm and wrist were when I didn't do that.

Though the forehand was more likely to get a pop, especially when I took the ball slightly earlier, the biggest problem was when I laid the wrist back I was often late and would mishit entirely. I assume that there is a part of my kinetic chain that is lagging or late. Probably opening the shoulders or hips too soon.

I also practiced serves with the pronation mentioned in the video. It took a little while, but eventually I started getting a few pops and the balls were flying off the court. I have never ever gotten a pop on the serve in my life before, so again this is new territory.

It's going to take some time and practice with this, but I think that once I get used to it I will get the pop, and obviously more solid contact with the ball, on a more consistent basis.

By starting this thread with this question I wasn't really expecting to get such results so quickly. Wow. Hats off to you guys.

DjokovicForTheWin
01-23-2012, 05:17 PM
Both on the serve and on groundstrokes, the butt of the racquet is directed at the ball and not released until the last second with a sudden pronation movement [NOT a wrist slap].


Any guess as to the distance from the ball before Fed releases with the sudden pronation?

Can't think of a name
01-23-2012, 05:25 PM
Any guess as to the distance from the ball before Fed releases with the sudden pronation?

11.6 yoctometers

LeeD
01-23-2012, 05:27 PM
11.5 yoctometers, depending on angle of attack and language used.

stormholloway
01-23-2012, 06:10 PM
Can you explain 'direct perpendicular shots'? How would one achieve that on a consistent basis?

For the record I don't think you should hit such a shot, and please pardon my judgment earlier. You aren't, in fact, playing with the 90.

My point was that pop simply comes from force against the sweet spot. The flatter the shot the more pop there will be, all other things being equal. My honest guess is that you're just not hitting the sweet spot.

zcarzach
01-24-2012, 05:55 AM
I have the smack a lings for sale. Makes the ball explode with sound.

Sounds like a breakfast cereal!

kiteboard
01-24-2012, 06:59 AM
Two pieces of material on either side of the strings at the bottom, connected by grommets, make them smack into the string bed.

ttbrowne
01-24-2012, 08:04 AM
Stood watching Rafa practicing serves at the WTF 2011 and was surprised how little audible pop I could hear - lots of variables involved regarding that pop/thud - the "loudest" racquet I've used was a dunlop MFIL foamtech - which is of low mass and came strung with a multi at mid tension - quite different to my preference for Babolat PST with low tension poly which also generates good noise - However my Prince rebel 95 with Technifibre BC poly was relatively quiet? Not sure TBH is there is an exact science behind that rather addictive sound - playing indoors helps!

And you could bring some mics & speakers, drag them from one end of the court to the other on your changeovers. You'd get that BIG TV SOUND!

jdubbs
01-24-2012, 09:10 AM
True story I heard from another member.

Andre Agassi played at our indoor club a few years ago. The sound coming off his racket, coupled with the indoor natural amplification, caused every other court to stop playing and check out where this sound was coming from. They got to watch me spank Agassi in straights.

(Last sentence may be slightly wrong/exaggerated).

NE1for10is?
01-24-2012, 09:12 AM
It's one day later after practicing the serves with the pronation and my deltoid is REALLY sore. Clearly I'm using entirely different muscles than I'm used to using and I'm going to need to do some opposing muscle excercises for the deceleration phase of the serve and shoulder stretches to loosen up the shoulder capsule. Clearly, I'm also going to need to severely limit the number of serves I hit until the muscles and flexibility develops. I'm very glad I only served for 10 minutes or so yesterday.

mucat
01-24-2012, 09:19 AM
Can you make the sound effect yourself? Because that's what I do and everyone loves it!!!

Anyway, you can also try hit harder, physics doesn't know right or wrong tennis techniques. You want loud banging sound, you will have to bang it hard.

dominikk1985
01-24-2012, 10:14 AM
the pop comes from hitting it hard.

but very important is also the speed of the incoming ball- hard to create that against a pusher.

rufusbgood
01-24-2012, 10:58 AM
Switch to a Kevlar hybrid like Prince Pro Blend if you like a really distinct pop sound.

r2473
01-24-2012, 11:06 AM
True story I heard from another member.

Andre Agassi played at our indoor club a few years ago. The sound coming off his racket, coupled with the indoor natural amplification, caused every other court to stop playing and check out where this sound was coming from. They got to watch me spank Agassi in straights.

(Last sentence may be slightly wrong/exaggerated).

The way I heard the story, it was the sound coming off your racquet, not Andre's that got the attention of the other courts.

And I heard Andre retired before you beat him in straights.

jdubbs
01-24-2012, 11:24 AM
The way I heard the story, it was the sound coming off your racquet, not Andre's that got the attention of the other courts.

And I heard Andre retired before you beat him in straights.

Well, I didn't want to seem like I was bragging here.


I remain your glorious soaring tennis Norse God,
Jdubbs

dennis10is
01-24-2012, 12:19 PM
I have my man-servant fire the Barrett .50 cal at my opponent. Makes a big pop and I usually win the match right there. For a killer forehand you need to have 3rd party finger flexion in addition to your laid back wrist, forearm pronation, and WW finish. That finger flexion is key.

I usually tip the custodian and extra $20 for the clean up.

I love it in the indoor season when I would loudly remind my man-servant to adjust for windage. My opponents would have this strange look on their face, windage, why is that sniper rifle pointing at me.

jdubbs
01-25-2012, 09:31 AM
I have my man-servant fire the Barrett .50 cal at my opponent. Makes a big pop and I usually win the match right there. For a killer forehand you need to have 3rd party finger flexion in addition to your laid back wrist, forearm pronation, and WW finish. That finger flexion is key.

I usually tip the custodian and extra $20 for the clean up.

I love it in the indoor season when I would loudly remind my man-servant to adjust for windage. My opponents would have this strange look on their face, windage, why is that sniper rifle pointing at me.

I don't think I want to play you. You sound like a pusher/lobber of the highest degree.

charliefedererer
01-27-2012, 05:00 AM
It's one day later after practicing the serves with the pronation and my deltoid is REALLY sore. Clearly I'm using entirely different muscles than I'm used to using and I'm going to need to do some opposing muscle excercises for the deceleration phase of the serve and shoulder stretches to loosen up the shoulder capsule. Clearly, I'm also going to need to severely limit the number of serves I hit until the muscles and flexibility develops. I'm very glad I only served for 10 minutes or so yesterday.

Smart guy.

Too many just keep pounding away.

Just look at all the players with shoulder problems in the Health and Fitness section of TT.

I think this is exactly the exercise program you are looking for:
Thrower's Ten Exercise Program: http://www.muhlenberg.edu/pdf/main/athletics/athletic_training/throwers10.pdf

Cheetah
01-27-2012, 09:00 PM
The pop sound comes from making good contact not from hitting hard. although you can also get the pop from making less than optimum contact if you swing hard enough. the sound comes from the ball expanding after being compressed. solid contact in the sweet spot with the racket going through the ball will make it pop. the more plow through the more pop you will get too.

Fuji
01-27-2012, 09:21 PM
Just skimmed, but I noticed poly makes that crazy pop off the string bed. My KPS88's when strung with poly are the perfect storm of sound, I swear one day it's going to break the sound barrier... ;)

In all actuality though, from my experience all you need to get the nice pop is...

1) Stiff strings. Poly or a tough synthetic will do.

2) Clean contact in the sweet spot.

3) Full body unit turn. Pop for me is most easily achieved on serving and forehands. Backhands are meh, unless I really try and go for a winner.

-Fuji

Magic of tennis
01-27-2012, 11:25 PM
As you would imagine, the pop happens because the ball is being hit hard. Harder than what most amateurs are used to. Good college players and pros have the fundamentals down in their swing mechanics and you will usually hear that distinctive pop or thud. Most rec players tend to "arm" the ball and the only force they put into a swing is the arm muscles and maybe some shoulder. The power from a heavy pro ball starts with the legs, then torso and shoulder rotation, followed by the arm. Get that kinetic chain down and you'll have heavy strokes too :)

Agreed.
Pop sound come from powerful shot which can be generated from proper kinetic chain. You don't have to hit hard to make that sound. It will be generated smoothly with proper technic and good contact

NE1for10is?
01-28-2012, 06:15 AM
Smart guy.

Too many just keep pounding away.

Just look at all the players with shoulder problems in the Health and Fitness section of TT.

I think this is exactly the exercise program you are looking for:
Thrower's Ten Exercise Program: http://www.muhlenberg.edu/pdf/main/athletics/athletic_training/throwers10.pdf

Thank you CharlieFederer. That's a great link. You have awesome posts. I did a lot of those exercises a few days after the practice session and fortunately I'm back to full speed again. The sleeper stretch was also helpful.

The McCraw pronation video should have a disclaimer attached with it that advises dropping the left shoulder to avoid impingement and stretches and counterbalancing exersices before attempting. I suppose the kids do it naturally so they probably don't need it. To his credit though he does advise limiting the number of serves, which is probably what saved me.

charliefedererer
01-30-2012, 02:41 PM
Thank you CharlieFederer. That's a great link. You have awesome posts. I did a lot of those exercises a few days after the practice session and fortunately I'm back to full speed again. The sleeper stretch was also helpful.

The McCraw pronation video should have a disclaimer attached with it that advises dropping the left shoulder to avoid impingement and stretches and counterbalancing exersices before attempting. I suppose the kids do it naturally so they probably don't need it. To his credit though he does advise limiting the number of serves, which is probably what saved me.

Good points on needing to add dropping the shoulder and the thrower's ten references to the McCraw pronation video, and indeed anyone practicing their serve.

I guess great minds think alike.:)

How do I know?

I just posted those exact two links along with the McCraw video to a high school tennis coach looking to improve the power in his player's serves.

jk816
01-31-2012, 08:23 AM
I hit with the ball machine today and practiced some serves, and due to all your advice, focused on aiming towards the ball with the buttcap till the last second with a relaxed wrist and arm, and also the kinetic chain.

I probably had solid contact and heard the 'pop' about 40% of the time, which is about 39% of the time more than I usually do, so this is indeed progress. When I connected well the balls were really flying off the court more than usual for me. The most surprising part was that the backhand (one-hander) was also popping fairly often. That's an entirely new and addictive experience for me. I never get the pop on the backhand in my life before today. I discovered that leading with the buttcap towards the ball on the backhand and letting it fly at the last second was an entirely different feeling than I'm used to. Once that happened a few times, I began to notice how tight my arm and wrist were when I didn't do that.

Though the forehand was more likely to get a pop, especially when I took the ball slightly earlier, the biggest problem was when I laid the wrist back I was often late and would mishit entirely. I assume that there is a part of my kinetic chain that is lagging or late. Probably opening the shoulders or hips too soon.

I also practiced serves with the pronation mentioned in the video. It took a little while, but eventually I started getting a few pops and the balls were flying off the court. I have never ever gotten a pop on the serve in my life before, so again this is new territory.

It's going to take some time and practice with this, but I think that once I get used to it I will get the pop, and obviously more solid contact with the ball, on a more consistent basis.

By starting this thread with this question I wasn't really expecting to get such results so quickly. Wow. Hats off to you guys.

If you'd previously been hitting with a straight wrist, chances are your calibrated contact point (and timing to achieve it) was further back than optimal, and if you use that same contact point/ timing, you will find you'll mis-hit or be "late" more often (in fact you already were!).

Making contact more out front with the wrist flexed will require you to advance your timing a bit, but you will eventually be very pleased with the result.

jk816
01-31-2012, 08:30 AM
I agree, flatter gives more of a pop usually.

I concur, flatter strokes plus greater acceleration yields more audible pop. When I switched to a heavier racquet which responded better to a flatter stroke technique, the audible pop dramatically increased. I didn't really notice it as much (maybe because I am behind the "pop"), but other players/ spectators have commented to me on it (especially when playing indoors). The heavier racquet also allows greater plow, so that could be a factor as well, but there is no pop on spin serves so that is a lesser factor).

user92626
01-31-2012, 09:02 AM
Flat/old balls also make a big pop noise.

New, hard balls tend to give me a "thud" sound.

NE1for10is?
02-04-2012, 10:59 AM
Can't think of a name properly emphasized that the "kinetic chain" sequence of powering you shots from a leg thrust and core rotation, not just your arm:

So that "pop" does indicate a "slap" has occurred.

Both on the serve and on groundstrokes, the butt of the racquet is directed at the ball and not released until the last second with a sudden pronation movement [NOT a wrist slap].

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=393401&page=2

The Modern Forehand the secret is the Lag By Jim McLennan
http://www.tennisnow.com/News/Featured-News/The-Modern-Forehand-%E2%80%93-the-secret-is-the-Lag.aspx

How to practice pronation so you can incorporate it into your serve (note the nice "pop" from pronation):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iONY6fcqZGg

I was warming up for a doubles match today and I finally realized that the part of the kinetic chain that was missing for me was the push off into the ground with the legs. Once I started doing that with everything else in place the ball started popping regularly. The serves and overheads were popping too. My doubles partner looked over and me and said, "You must be playing a lot. You're hitting the ball really well." Unfortunately, it didn't continue popping during matchplay, but I'm sure it's just a matter of time until it does.

charliefedererer
02-05-2012, 07:09 PM
It sounds like you're getting there.

Twist down.

Twist up.

Coiling, then powerfully uncoiling should provide the power in your strokes.

As you coil down, you must bend your knees.

A powerful leg push off initates a powerful uncoiling that can power your stroke.

Good luck!

NE1for10is?
02-06-2012, 11:09 AM
It sounds like you're getting there.

Twist down.

Twist up.

Coiling, then powerfully uncoiling should provide the power in your strokes.

As you coil down, you must bend your knees.

A powerful leg push off initates a powerful uncoiling that can power your stroke.

Good luck!

I can more or less hit the flat serve with pronation now. Any good videos on applying the pronation to the slice, topspin and kick serves?

charliefedererer
02-08-2012, 09:24 AM
I can more or less hit the flat serve with pronation now. Any good videos on applying the pronation to the slice, topspin and kick serves?

Will, from Fuzzy Yellow Balls has 2 videos, that explain this:

Slice Serve Swing Direction http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9A9G8nLlYE
(Note that at 42 seconds into the video, that Will has not swung his shoulders around as much to the left (less uncoiling) on his slice serve than on his flat serve. This comes about because the toss to the right means he can't uncoil as much and still hit the ball "square". This explains why the arm is then moving in a different swing path than the flat serve even though most of the swing, including the pronation, feels very similar to the flat serve for the server. That "brushing" motion comes from the swing path - NOT because you are trying to consciously brush along the side of the ball more.

Tennis Serve: Kick Serve Step 3 - How to Swing and Pronate http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgZZhATk8AY
[It is a bit confusing that Will uses himself, "a lefty", on the slice serve video, but recruits Frank Salazar, "a righty", for the twist video.]
(Note that at 1:22, just before contact, at this late point in his swing Frank has a much bigger "shoulder wind" on the Kick Serve than on a Flat Serve. Now some of that is just because the ball is tossed more overhead, so you have to maintain your shoulder wind longer to hit it at this more overhead position. Will doesn't emphasize this "bigger shoulder wind" here, but it is crucial to explain how you end up with the same direction on the contact point, but that your racquet moves through a different direction in space - more left to right - on a kick serve.
Also don't miss his point about letting the ball drop a little more.)



At 3:51 of this next video, Pat Dougherty, the Bolletieri Camp "Serve Doctor", explains and demonstrates with his student the concept of the bigger shoulder turn on the kick serve:
Serve Doctor's Simplified Spring-loaded Serve Technique http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixx-MCC7D88

[I'll have you experiment with this bigger shoulder turn and see if it doesn't help with your kick serve. The alternative of not using a bigger shoulder rotation, seen in the FYB video, is to use a delay in the shoulder uncoiling largely due to the ball position being more to the left plus the slightly deeper ball drop.]

LeeD
02-08-2012, 09:34 AM
"bigger" shoulder turn on kick serves because of toss location and swing plane needing to get done earlier than for flat or slice serves. Notice finish is completed earlier also.

martini1
02-08-2012, 03:32 PM
Get a mid and string it with at least 1/2 set of natural gut. New balls. Flat hitting with a loose grip. Pops like opening a bottle of champagne.

NE1for10is?
02-11-2012, 04:12 AM
Will, from Fuzzy Yellow Balls has 2 videos, that explain this:

Slice Serve Swing Direction http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9A9G8nLlYE
(Note that at 42 seconds into the video, that Will has not swung his shoulders around as much to the left (less uncoiling) on his slice serve than on his flat serve. This comes about because the toss to the right means he can't uncoil as much and still hit the ball "square". This explains why the arm is then moving in a different swing path than the flat serve even though most of the swing, including the pronation, feels very similar to the flat serve for the server. That "brushing" motion comes from the swing path - NOT because you are trying to consciously brush along the side of the ball more.

Tennis Serve: Kick Serve Step 3 - How to Swing and Pronate http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgZZhATk8AY
[It is a bit confusing that Will uses himself, "a lefty", on the slice serve video, but recruits Frank Salazar, "a righty", for the twist video.]
(Note that at 1:22, just before contact, at this late point in his swing Frank has a much bigger "shoulder wind" on the Kick Serve than on a Flat Serve. Now some of that is just because the ball is tossed more overhead, so you have to maintain your shoulder wind longer to hit it at this more overhead position. Will doesn't emphasize this "bigger shoulder wind" here, but it is crucial to explain how you end up with the same direction on the contact point, but that your racquet moves through a different direction in space - more left to right - on a kick serve.
Also don't miss his point about letting the ball drop a little more.)



At 3:51 of this next video, Pat Dougherty, the Bolletieri Camp "Serve Doctor", explains and demonstrates with his student the concept of the bigger shoulder turn on the kick serve:
Serve Doctor's Simplified Spring-loaded Serve Technique http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixx-MCC7D88

[I'll have you experiment with this bigger shoulder turn and see if it doesn't help with your kick serve. The alternative of not using a bigger shoulder rotation, seen in the FYB video, is to use a delay in the shoulder uncoiling largely due to the ball position being more to the left plus the slightly deeper ball drop.]

Thanks for the videos. It's starting to make sense. The spin serves don't pop for me yet like the flat serve, but the pronation is feeling more natural. I have a match today. I'll try and put more shoulder turn on the kick.

SystemicAnomaly
02-11-2012, 11:31 AM
https://dl-tones.s3.amazonaws.com/1253934629_jude%20mouth%20popping.jpg (http://www.nifter.com/sound_effects/blips_bangs_beeps/pop_NifterDotCom.wav)

sportsfan1
03-15-2012, 06:00 PM
How to practice pronation so you can incorporate it into your serve (note the nice "pop" from pronation):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iONY6fcqZGg

I watched this video and noticed the recommendation was that pronation should finish with a bent elbow (and IIRC, FYB also recommends the inverted U shape). Coincidentally, what followed was a Fed serve video, and it doesn't seem he finishes his serve this way:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZk-Er89tQQ&feature=fvwp&NR=1

Just curious:
Did I see it wrong, or is it an exception to the rule that doesn't apply to those with straight arm forehand ?
Also, does Fed's racquet not 'pause' in the trophy position.


BTW, thanks a lot for the 'racquet butt cap pointing to the ball followed by pronation on *all* strokes' tip..

charliefedererer
03-17-2012, 08:36 PM
The follow through for the "pronation" movement on the serve may, but does not have to, lead to a bent elbow finish.
Jim McLennan - The Pete Sampras Snap http://www.essentialtennisinstruction.com/the-pete-sampras-snap/
Coach McCraw explaining a serve pronation exercise http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iONY6fcqZGg

I don't think that there is any association between a straight forehand, and a lack of a "bent elbow" finish on the serve.


There should not be a pause at the "trophy position". The arm should be in continuous movement.
Jim McLennan - Tossing into the Swing http://www.essentialtennisinstruction.com/tossing-into-the-swing/

sansaephanh
03-18-2012, 01:14 AM
Didn't feel like reading through the thread, but it happens when I work on making contact with the sweet spot with a smooth swing. I usually don't hear it myself though. Someone tells me whether I am or not, I'm usually too busy getting my *** handed to me lol.