PDA

View Full Version : My Encounter With a Pusher


TTMR
01-28-2012, 03:50 PM
I've mentioned this incident from a few years ago in another thread before and received some flak but I'd like some opinions on how well I handled the situation and whether or not I made the right decision:

I remember one time I was playing this guy. We were both hitting the cover off the ball and I was leading 5-1. Down for the count, he starts throwing me softball lobs and floaters, slices and drop shots, starts running around retrieving balls he normally let go for winners, begins finishing points at the net other than overheads. He ties it up 5-5. I warn him that I wasn't going to put up with amateur hour. Nevertheless, he continues doing the same thing for the next four points, and goes up 6-5. I said to him, "I warned you". I gathered up my racquet and the balls (which he bought), threw them in my bag and stormed off the court. I never played him again, and never would. I guess he is just one of those tennis crazies you hear about.

I don't mind losing, but only if my opponent plays real tennis, and hits through me. I'm not going to tolerate some clown trying to be clever and cute. Either we're here to play or we aren't. And if we aren't, I have better things to do.

Personally, I think that is the only way to handle pushers and junk ballers; ignore them, don't play them and ostracize them until they are willing to man up and play real tennis. When that happens, we can get down to business. What do you think?

interjim
01-28-2012, 04:02 PM
Deal with it. If you cant beat him, he's the better player. In the end, points on the board matter, not how beautiful your form might be.

Can't think of a name
01-28-2012, 04:19 PM
http://arch.413chan.net/med_1295363901-wallz11579_i_am_monitoring_this_thread-%28n1310341743904%29.jpg

Bagumbawalla
01-28-2012, 04:28 PM
So, basically, what you are saying is- I don't want to play you if you can find my weaknesses, force me to make errors, and remind me that I'm not such a good player as I thought.

In my opinion, playing players like that is exactly what can make you a better player- if you are willing to admit to youself that you have things to improve- then seriously work on those things until he can no longer take advantage of you.

The one thing I would disagree with in the other answer, above, is that good form does matter-- but if it can be so easily broken down by junkballs, then that form needs more work.

So, if you are just playing for fun, then, sure, play only with players you enjoy hitting with. If you want to learn to compete and develop an all-round game, then you have to test yourself against players that push your limits.

Xizel
01-28-2012, 04:39 PM
It should have been "I warned you," and now I'm going to drastically increase my winner count. Post above explains it handily otherwise.

InspectorRacquet
01-28-2012, 04:41 PM
I used to be in your same position: irritated by any pusher who wouldn't play real tennis.

However, I took a step back, rebuilt my game to include consistency in power and power in consistency, and resolved that if the pusher won't play real tennis, I will.

Now I can play my game to beat the pusher and some players I would never have been able to defeat.

You must learn to beat the pusher.

Tyrus
01-28-2012, 04:42 PM
So let me get this straight...

You're winning, good for you! high paced rallies is what you crave...and he's giving you what you want.

So he changes his strategy because (obviously) he's losing. and it works!

Forcing you to generate your own pace.

Giving you a variety of pace, spin, depth, height, etc.

Playing more consistent tennis than you.

And because the match didn't end YOUR way, you got angry, stole his balls, and stormed off the court not even giving him the satisfaction of finishing the match.

Yeah man...what an *****hole...I would have not only stolen his balls, but his racket as well, and told him "You don't deserve this sport"

(I pray to god you see the facetiousness in my conclusion)

Go practice. There are PLENTY of ways to beat a pusher.

Sorry, the circle-jerk you requested couldn't be completed at this time.

guitarplayer
01-28-2012, 04:43 PM
What a baby you are. Take your balls and go home. Amazing to me.

Kam2010
01-28-2012, 05:00 PM
Sore looser in my opinion.
I hate playing pushers especially ones that keep slicing really ****es me off, but it's not against the rules. Not cheating, you should be better than that.

Up&comer
01-28-2012, 05:06 PM
Grow up. You got beat by a smarter player. Deal with it. You had no right to steal his balls and quit. That's just bad sportsmanship. Learn to beat them.

guitarplayer
01-28-2012, 05:11 PM
I know how I would play you. I would drop shot, lob, drop shot, lob, slice, spin, patty cake and watch you come unglued. Ah, sweet victory.

TTMR
01-28-2012, 05:16 PM
So let me get this straight...

You're winning, good for you! high paced rallies is what you crave...and he's giving you what you want.

So he changes his strategy because (obviously) he's losing. and it works!

Forcing you to generate your own pace.

Giving you a variety of pace, spin, depth, height, etc.

Playing more consistent tennis than you.

The difference is, in the past when I played this guy and things became tough for him, he would hit harder. I did the same. He and I had an implicit understanding that we would go down with the ship playing legitimate tennis, not imitating the septuagenarians with their oversized racquets and 15 MPH strokes on the next court. He couldn't stand losing the right way, so he started phoning it in, and just happened to be successful this time. He betrayed our 'tennis relationship', and that's what I call truly poor sportsmanship.

I've played pushers before and blasted them with ease. Oddly enough, I noticed before the match the city had resurfaced the courts and I suspect they slowed them down, probably again to benefit the senior community. There's no way I would have lost that day on a real court.


And because the match didn't end YOUR way, you got angry, stole his balls, and stormed off the court not even giving him the satisfaction of finishing the match.

Yeah man...what an *****hole...I would have not only stolen his balls, but his racket as well, and told him "You don't deserve this sport"

(I pray to god you see the facetiousness in my conclusion)

Go practice. There are PLENTY of ways to beat a pusher.

Sorry, the circle-jerk you requested couldn't be completed at this time.

In my defense, I forgot they were his balls in the heat of the moment and gathered them without thinking. It was not done deliberately. Had I been willing to see him again, I would have happily returned them.

Say Chi Sin Lo
01-28-2012, 05:36 PM
You shouldn't even call yourself a competitor. You were winning, of course all is well. Then the opponent was smart enough to realize his/her current strategy isn't working and decides to change it. It works, throws you off the game, the minute you start losing, you b**** about it. What did you think would accomplish by "warning" him? Not only is that unsportsmanlike, but he's already won by getting into your fragile head.

Now that you're down by a game, you decide to walk off. A true competitor would try to extend the set, if not then move onto the second set and start fresh, or accept defeat and learn from it.

This is like me walking off because my opponent keeps hitting high to my one-hander.

There are always ways to go around whatever strategy your opponent has. Against a pusher, you can't let him/her dictate the points with those no-pace, junkballs rallies. The pusher will never give you that perfect ball to strike, literally forcing you to create something out of nothing from the baseline. Come into the net, take time away from the pusher, make him react, make him play a high risk shot such as a lob/short angles/ankles shot, the ball is less likely to do funky stuff if you don't let it bounce.

I have a horrible record against pushers, definitely lost more than I have won against pushers. Until I changed my strategy, figured out a way to beat them if I could execute it. I played the pusher of all pushers a while ago. Intentional or not, he had some gamesmanship going on with his gazillion ball tosses, freezing me out on every return. The rallies consisted of junkballs galore. I was down a break and I just said to myself:

"He can't create winners, his junkballs are killing me and throwing off my timing. Screw this, I need to change it up, I'm just not going to let the ball bounce and force him to be uncomfortable. He can either pass me with a winner, or it's going to be a putaway for me at the net."

Since you're such a poor sportsman, I'm going to be mean and say the above statements, as well as everyone else's probably made no sense to you. You probably only know of one method to play tennis, which is the bash-till-you-cave method. I could be wrong, but you sound like an one-dimensional player, a sore one I may add. The notion of changing your strategy come crutch time is probably beyond your amateur skills.

And just so you know, being smart and using his head doesn't mean he's an amateur. That's real tennis.

Stop playing tennis, this sport, or any other sports don't welcome your kind.

fRa
01-28-2012, 05:43 PM
I can really picture Federer storming off the court after playing Nadal for about an hour...

...



Yeah I can really picture that.

Say Chi Sin Lo
01-28-2012, 05:44 PM
The difference is, in the past when I played this guy and things became tough for him, he would hit harder. I did the same. He and I had an implicit understanding that we would go down with the ship playing legitimate tennis, not imitating the septuagenarians with their oversized racquets and 15 MPH strokes on the next court. He couldn't stand losing the right way, so he started phoning it in, and just happened to be successful this time. He betrayed our 'tennis relationship', and that's what I call truly poor sportsmanship.

I've played pushers before and blasted them with ease. Oddly enough, I noticed before the match the city had resurfaced the courts and I suspect they slowed them down, probably again to benefit the senior community. There's no way I would have lost that day on a real court.



In my defense, I forgot they were his balls in the heat of the moment and gathered them without thinking. It was not done deliberately. Had I been willing to see him again, I would have happily returned them.

Sounds like your friend is a much smarter fellow than you are. It's like trying to run through a steel door. Running harder and faster won't get the job done. And he was smart enough to fashion a key instead to open the door.

Slow courts are not real courts?! Well then, French Open is definitely not a real grand slam. And Guga must not be a legend then. I mean, he's only won on slow courts, and those aren't real tennis courts.

And about running off with the balls. Doesn't matter if it was his or yours, it was the gesture, by taking away the balls, you're saying he's not fit to play tennis, therefore he had no use for the balls. When really, you running off like a little b**** means you shouldn't be playing sports, period.

NJ1
01-28-2012, 06:00 PM
There's no way I would have lost that day on a real court.



Hahahahaha, sure.....

Maui19
01-28-2012, 06:10 PM
This whole post is a con job. No one can be this stupid.

Tyrus
01-28-2012, 06:49 PM
The difference is, in the past when I played this guy and things became tough for him, he would hit harder. I did the same. He and I had an implicit understanding that we would go down with the ship playing legitimate tennis, not imitating the septuagenarians with their oversized racquets and 15 MPH strokes on the next court. He couldn't stand losing the right way, so he started phoning it in, and just happened to be successful this time. He betrayed our 'tennis relationship', and that's what I call truly poor sportsmanship.


okay...

so were you just hitting with a friend for fun, or a serious match?

If it was just for fun with a friend, then y'all should just hit the bar, have some shots and fight it out mano a mano. Or...smoke a j and forget it ever happened. Do you. However being that it happened a while back, i'd assume its probably all water under the bridge.

If it was a serious match, then all is far in love and war, meaning your "tennis relationship" is null and void.

There is no "right way" to play tennis, if the ball goes over the net and lands in, then it's legal, i don't care if you hold the racket in your mouth and hit drop shots all day.

But the lesson to learn is that patty cake tennis is as real as it gets, and obviously kryptonite to your game. Get practicing before a 60 yr old patty cakes you off the court while you're red with anger. Trust me, i've been there it IS frustrating, but the ONLY way to get over it is practice with players of all styles.

Sorry bro, you just ended up a poor sport in this one, it happens. Get over it and move on.

Frank Silbermann
01-28-2012, 07:22 PM
There is no "right way" to play tennis, if the ball goes over the net and lands in, then it's legal, i don't care if you hold the racket in your mouth and hit drop shots all day. Maybe today there's no right way to play tennis today, but there once was. The right way was to use a one-handed backhand, eastern grips, flat forehand (or maybe a just a touch of natural unforced topspin), and a touch of under-spin on your mostly-flat backhand. Steady and conservative from the baseline, and not trying to put the ball away until and unless you get to the net. Wearing white clothes.

Roddick33
01-28-2012, 07:46 PM
Dude, you are just immature.

Fuji
01-28-2012, 08:43 PM
I really hope you are joking. That's one of the most childish things I have EVER heard.

You refuse to play because he plays a different game style then you? So let's say a serve and volley player whipped you 6-0, would you leave because he's spinning in serves and hitting volleys?

This is just ridiculous.

-Fuji

tyu1314
01-28-2012, 08:59 PM
I laugh when i finish reading your post, he is beating you and you think you are too good to play him.

What is real tennis? There is no right or wrong way to hit a tennis ball, but there is a better way.

mkv
01-29-2012, 05:51 AM
Maybe you should read "Winning Ugly" by Brad Gilbert.

I'm quite sure your opponent has read that.

I deal with pushers by making them run till they can't retrieve, cut short points by being aggressive and volleying, or give them a taste of their own medicine.

I find playing pushers not fun, but I think playing them can improve my game because it forces me to be consistent.

goran_ace
01-29-2012, 06:37 AM
I was leading 5-1. Down for the count, he starts throwing me softball lobs and floaters, slices and drop shots, starts running around retrieving balls he normally let go for winners, begins finishing points at the net other than overheads. He ties it up 5-5

How dare he do things like that! He kept the ball out of your wheel house, he chased after shots, he used the whole court. Doesn't sound like he was pushing to me. Sounds like he was the one playing real tennis.

Next time hit with the ball machine and so the other guy is free to play against people who don't melt down and storm off the court because they can't close out a set.

NJ1
01-29-2012, 07:53 AM
This whole post is a con job. No one can be this stupid.

Agreed. Most likely another one of those weirdo attention-starved "look at me" threads....

TTMR
01-29-2012, 06:11 PM
Maybe today there's no right way to play tennis today, but there once was. The right way was to use a one-handed backhand, eastern grips, flat forehand (or maybe a just a touch of natural unforced topspin), and a touch of under-spin on your mostly-flat backhand. Steady and conservative from the baseline, and not trying to put the ball away until and unless you get to the net. Wearing white clothes.

And likewise, today the right way to play is to hit huge serves and huge forehands. It's a power game these days. These pushers don't seem to get that, and the more they play and beat superior tennis players, the less inclined they will be to learn proper technique and form.

I may have lost the match had I carried on, but in no way did my opponent 'win' by playing tennis. I played tennis, he played pusher-ball. It's cliche, but I was beating myself because he doesn't have the game when he plays like that to beat me.

You refuse to play because he plays a different game style then you? So let's say a serve and volley player whipped you 6-0, would you leave because he's spinning in serves and hitting volleys?


That kind of S&V is not my cup of tea, but it is the old school equivalent to today's power tennis, and it has to be respected. That being said, I doubt any S&Ver could handle my heat from the baseline. He'd have to pray for the error, much like the pusher does.

I laugh when i finish reading your post, he is beating you and you think you are too good to play him.

What is real tennis? There is no right or wrong way to hit a tennis ball, but there is a better way.

You obviously don't understand tennis if you seriously believe there isn't a right and wrong way to play. We pay coaches to teach us the right way to play so we can leave the junk-balling lob jockeys to each other. Real players don't resort to bush-league soft-balling when things get rough. Sure, they change strategy. They hit more down the line rather than cross court, they work the angles, they increase pace, spin and velocity, and they step inside the baseline. They don't capitulate to granny tactics for the sake of the empty win.

The goal of tennis is to hit as hard as possible in between the boundaries on a rectangular court, not to clown around with dinks and chip shots. Play badminton if you want low pace lobfests. All I ask is you don't waste my time by telling me you are a hitter, and then when you can't hack it, start throwing in lucky patty cakes so you can call yourself a winner. You aren't a winner in my mind; rather, a scared nancy boy afraid to go all out.

Limpinhitter
01-29-2012, 06:25 PM
Maybe today there's no right way to play tennis today, but there once was. The right way was to use a one-handed backhand, eastern grips, flat forehand (or maybe a just a touch of natural unforced topspin), and a touch of under-spin on your mostly-flat backhand. Steady and conservative from the baseline, and not trying to put the ball away until and unless you get to the net. Wearing white clothes.

Ah, you forgot the green crockodile.

TheOneHander
01-29-2012, 06:32 PM
And likewise, today the right way to play is to hit huge serves and huge forehands. It's a power game these days. These pushers don't seem to get that, and the more they play and beat superior tennis players, the less inclined they will be to learn proper technique and form.

I may have lost the match had I carried on, but in no way did my opponent 'win' by playing tennis. I played tennis, he played pusher-ball. It's cliche, but I was beating myself because he doesn't have the game when he plays like that to beat me.




That kind of S&V is not my cup of tea, but it is the old school equivalent to today's power tennis, and it has to be respected. That being said, I doubt any S&Ver could handle my heat from the baseline. He'd have to pray for the error, much like the pusher does.



You obviously don't understand tennis if you seriously believe there isn't a right and wrong way to play. We pay coaches to teach us the right way to play so we can leave the junk-balling lob jockeys to each other. Real players don't resort to bush-league soft-balling when things get rough. Sure, they change strategy. They hit more down the line rather than cross court, they work the angles, they increase pace, spin and velocity, and they step inside the baseline. They don't capitulate to granny tactics for the sake of the empty win.

The goal of tennis is to hit as hard as possible in between the boundaries on a rectangular court, not to clown around with dinks and chip shots. Play badminton if you want low pace lobfests. All I ask is you don't waste my time by telling me you are a hitter, and then when you can't hack it, start throwing in lucky patty cakes so you can call yourself a winner. You aren't a winner in my mind; rather, a scared nancy boy afraid to go all out.

Let's be honest here. If you had any "heat", you wouldn't be struggling against pushers.

Timbo's hopeless slice
01-29-2012, 06:39 PM
I just hope he is pulling your chains with the 'hitter cliche'

Very successful troll or complete idiot, I can't decide!

guitarplayer
01-29-2012, 06:56 PM
"the goal of tennis is to hit as hard as possible in between the boundaries".

Are you on crack or just plain stupid?

guitarplayer
01-29-2012, 06:57 PM
....and few could handle your heat?

Ha, the little jr high kid seemed to have no problem with it. You couldn't handle soft slices. Pathetic.

zagor
01-29-2012, 07:00 PM
Bwahahahaha!

This thread had me in tears.

@TTMR: Great parody of TWs "big hitters". The fact that the majority didn't get it makes it even more hilarious.

rufusbgood
01-29-2012, 08:01 PM
I don't know whether the OP is serious or not, but a couple pro matches come to mind when I think about this idea of "the right way to play" and blasting your way to victory.

When Arthur Ashe beat Jimmy Connors to win Wimbledon he did it by abandoning his usual power game. Knowing that Connors thrived on pace, he decided that the way to beat Connors was to give him a steady diet of junk and came away with the victory.

The other match was a Lendl match against someone whose name I can't remember, some young up and comer who was giving Lendl a tough match. After the match (which Lendl won), an interviewer remarked to Lendl how it seemed the better Lendl played the better the kid played. Lendl agreed and added frankly: "So I decided to play worse and beat him."

Say Chi Sin Lo
01-29-2012, 08:11 PM
Bwahahahaha!

This thread had me in tears.

@TTMR: Great parody of TWs "big hitters". The fact that the majority didn't get it makes it even more hilarious.

There's enough stupidity and arrogance in this thread to get us through to the French Open. Oh way, scratch that, cause the French Open with its slow courts aren't real tennis court, so it's not a real tennis championship, let alone a grand slam.

Let me rephrase the first sentence:

There's enough stupidity and arrogance in this thread to get us through to the US Open. I skipped over Wimbledon because it may be too fast for OP to enjoy.

Fuji
01-29-2012, 08:33 PM
I honestly can't comprehend this thread anymore. With your mentality, back when Serve and Volley was popular, would you have simply served and volleyed, and called anyone who doesn't come to the net "afraid and not playing real tennis?"

-Fuji

Xizel
01-29-2012, 08:54 PM
Sorry, we were missing it.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-QjuMaChZk6Y/TlYJymcnO0I/AAAAAAAAAIU/rxyt2Y0_s0w/s640/Troll+Face+Emoticon4.jpg

Can't think of a name
01-29-2012, 08:55 PM
http://imgur.com/tCp90.gif

Say Chi Sin Lo
01-30-2012, 12:19 AM
And likewise, today the right way to play is to hit huge serves and huge forehands. It's a power game these days. These pushers don't seem to get that, and the more they play and beat superior tennis players, the less inclined they will be to learn proper technique and form.

I may have lost the match had I carried on, but in no way did my opponent 'win' by playing tennis. I played tennis, he played pusher-ball. It's cliche, but I was beating myself because he doesn't have the game when he plays like that to beat me.

The goal of tennis is to hit as hard as possible in between the boundaries on a rectangular court, not to clown around with dinks and chip shots. Play badminton if you want low pace lobfests. All I ask is you don't waste my time by telling me you are a hitter, and then when you can't hack it, start throwing in lucky patty cakes so you can call yourself a winner. You aren't a winner in my mind; rather, a scared nancy boy afraid to go all out.

Hahaha please don't go away, we need some entertainment until the next major.

Just so you know, you can't beat a superior tennis player, otherwise he/she is not the superior tennis player, but inferior. Tennis is not just about proper form and technique. You can beam the ball down the middle with said proper form and technique all you want, but you won't be winning against a "superior" player. It's the complete package, physical and mental. But clearly you and your idiot ego don't have the mental. Doesn't sound like a superior tennis player or a sportsman.

Also, in case you didn't know already. The goal of tennis, and sports in general is to better yourself and win. That's it. If you want to "hit as hard as possible in between the boundaries on a rectangular court", then stop playing matches and just rally. Just make sure the hitting partner feel your so-called "heat".

Sentinel
01-30-2012, 05:12 AM
I really hope you are joking. That's one of the most childish things I have EVER heard.

You refuse to play because he plays a different game style then you? So let's say a serve and volley player whipped you 6-0, would you leave because he's spinning in serves and hitting volleys?

This is just ridiculous.

-Fuji
Cmon folks. The thread is a dig at Fred.

Quite funny, OP.

mikeler
01-30-2012, 05:38 AM
I keep looking for the "right" way to play tennis in the rules and I just can't find any discussion of it. Kinda weird because you hear about it so much on the boards.

TTMR
01-30-2012, 09:11 AM
Let's be honest here. If you had any "heat", you wouldn't be struggling against pushers.

Let's say you are an accountant, and the bookkeeper sends you a sudoku puzzle rather than a general ledger, and you can't understand it when doing your report. Does that mean you are not a good accountant? No. It means the bookkeeper is doing something wrong, messing with your head to try and make you look bad to your superiors, or just plain insane or incompetent.

Just like in tennis. The pusher is utilizing failed tactics to try and make you look bad, to make you doubt your abilities as a tennis player. Most of the time you can brush them off like the gnats they are, but occasionally they get under your skin.

Make no mistake though. The pusher does not beat you. You beat yourself. That's their modus operandi: psychological warfare. The goal is to make you become hotheaded and unglued. That kind of tactic to me is cheap. It is indicative of someone with a big ego who simply can't stand losing. So he ditches tennis and starts pushing, floating, slicing and dropping, using his legs rather than racquet to win points. In other words, he is a coward who just can't cut it on the tennis court.

When Arthur Ashe beat Jimmy Connors to win Wimbledon he did it by abandoning his usual power game. Knowing that Connors thrived on pace, he decided that the way to beat Connors was to give him a steady diet of junk and came away with the victory.

The other match was a Lendl match against someone whose name I can't remember, some young up and comer who was giving Lendl a tough match. After the match (which Lendl won), an interviewer remarked to Lendl how it seemed the better Lendl played the better the kid played. Lendl agreed and added frankly: "So I decided to play worse and beat him."

Look, with all due respect to the all time greats, the game has changed. You can't play that way and be successful anymore. Modern technique has rendered so-called 'creative' tennis into the ground. It can always be overcome by a big guy with power executing his shots. The only way to neutralize their technique is to slow down the courts to benefit guys who just can't hack it outside of their boring retriever game.

Just so you know, you can't beat a superior tennis player, otherwise he/she is not the superior tennis player, but inferior. Tennis is not just about proper form and technique. You can beam the ball down the middle with said proper form and technique all you want, but you won't be winning against a "superior" player. It's the complete package, physical and mental. But clearly you and your idiot ego don't have the mental. Doesn't sound like a superior tennis player or a sportsman.

No, a player is superior if he has proper form and can execute his shots on a consistent basis. A pusher doesn't utilize proper technique, and therefore isn't really a tennis player. He can put up some points on the scoreboard, but that doesn't mean he can play. The scoreline isn't the whole story.

A guy who resorts to pushing and junk balling is a lot like some shyster playing three card monte in the alley.

I honestly can't comprehend this thread anymore. With your mentality, back when Serve and Volley was popular, would you have simply served and volleyed, and called anyone who doesn't come to the net "afraid and not playing real tennis?"

I don't know. That kind of play is obsolete, so it is irrelevant to the discussion. Hopefully, had I played in those days, I would have been one of the forerunners embarking on the new age of power baselining.

Say Chi Sin Lo
01-30-2012, 10:03 AM
No, a player is superior if he has proper form and can execute his shots on a consistent basis. A pusher doesn't utilize proper technique, and therefore isn't really a tennis player. He can put up some points on the scoreboard, but that doesn't mean he can play. The scoreline isn't the whole story.



A pusher may not utilize proper technique and have athleticism that is out of this world. But he was winning right? Doesn't that make you even more sad? You, with your proper technique and the "heat" was getting beaten by someone with no heat and flawed technique in the same game, obeying the same rules. You're right, the scoreline isn't the whole story as you weren't classy enough to finish the match, let alone the set, and walked away as a sore loser. You're right, the scoreline isn't the whole story, he just broke your spirit.

The pusher may not have the technique and played within his limits, but he was smart enough to figure out what makes you uncomfortable.

I hate pushers, I never look forward to playing them. But you can bring the heat and look pretty all you want, at the end of the day, a win is a win.

Also, if you can't putaway balls near the net or handle slices, I doubt you have good technique and good footwork. So you resort to "hit as hard as you can within the boundaries...".

Say Chi Sin Lo
01-30-2012, 10:05 AM
I don't know. That kind of play is obsolete, so it is irrelevant to the discussion. Hopefully, had I played in those days, I would have been one of the forerunners embarking on the new age of power baselining.

LOL! Alright man, whatever helps you sleep at night.

If you could have been a forerunner of anything tennis related, you wouldn't be crying a river here.

jdubbs
01-30-2012, 10:12 AM
I actually respect the OP here. I go out of my way to avoid pushers, and only play them in tournaments where I have no choice.

I usually beat them, but I've taken some frustrating beatings from them, though nowadays I usually have too much pace and smarts...but not always, sometimes they get me.

A couple of months ago I played a former 4.0 who got bumped to 4.5 in a friendly tourney and he had the pusher/retriever/lobbing/dropshot, thing going on. I was out late the previous night, exhausted and he got me in straights, I've never been so frustrated with myself.

But at the end I congratulated him. He was used to getting a lot of derision from vanquished opponents and I said "hey, at least your winning your matches."

But I enjoy hard hitting matches, and hate pushers, so I can sympathize with the OP who was playing a friendly match.

danno123
01-30-2012, 10:53 AM
[snip]
Just like in tennis. The pusher is utilizing failed tactics to try and make you look bad, to make you doubt your abilities as a tennis player. Most of the time you can brush them off like the gnats they are, but occasionally they get under your skin.

[snip]
In other words, he is a coward who just can't cut it on the tennis court.


You are correct that one of you was utilizing failed tactics (the one who was losing) and one of you was a coward (the one who quit). It just wasn't the person you think it was.

edited to add: If this whole thread was an attempt at sarcasm to make fun of those posters who believe they are really good and then lose to pushers, I apologize. I looked for the sarcasm and didn't see it.

SeriousSummer
01-30-2012, 12:30 PM
Maybe today there's no right way to play tennis today, but there once was. The right way was to use a one-handed backhand, eastern grips, flat forehand (or maybe a just a touch of natural unforced topspin), and a touch of under-spin on your mostly-flat backhand. Steady and conservative from the baseline, and not trying to put the ball away until and unless you get to the net. Wearing white clothes.

That's still the right way to play. But I have such trouble getting my whites white enough! I'd allow wearing colored clothing, but only on public courts of course.

Tyrus
01-30-2012, 12:35 PM
TTMR, you are completely correct, everything you say/do makes you awesome and the rest of us terrible...real tennis players hit the fuzz off the ball all the time. Old people and little kids need to step down so the real 3.5's of this world can come in and play....

Sorry, i couldn't help but laugh at it all. I'll keep feeding into this thread.

Say Chi Sin Lo
01-30-2012, 12:54 PM
I'm trying to imagine how you play a point... And it goes like this:

Since you've got so much "heat" (LOL! heat, frontrunner of power baseline, whatever helps you want to call yourself) from the baseline, of course whoever you play will be pinned against the fence. Eventually you get a short ball, so you have to come into the net, I wonder what would you do:

1) I'm not running up there, this fool isn't playing real tennis if the ball can't land behind the service line. If it doesn't get to me in one bounce, I'm walking.

2) Be predictable and blast another one back to the person pinned against the fence. Then look up at the sky: "is it a bird? is it a plane?" No, it's another lob winner because your dumb***** decides to blast another one back to the opponent.

3) A simple drop shot.

I'm pulling for the 2nd option. Since he refuses to accept the existence of junk/short balls. And there'll be no drop shot, cause it's not real tennis.

Squall Leonheart
01-30-2012, 12:59 PM
Let's say you are an accountant, and the bookkeeper sends you a sudoku puzzle rather than a general ledger, and you can't understand it when doing your report. Does that mean you are not a good accountant? No. It means the bookkeeper is doing something wrong, messing with your head to try and make you look bad to your superiors, or just plain insane or incompetent.


This is a bit of a flawed analogy. One very similar example to your situation is early Federer vs Hewitt. In their early meetings, Federer would try to rush the net in order to attack Hewitt's defense. As he became more comfortable from the back court, he became more patient. From there, he learned that Hewitt didn't really have the firepower to hurt him from there, while he himself had enough defense to stay with Hewitt until his offense was able to end the point. Does this make Hewitt the better player? Then again, you also claim that powerful shots make the better player.

I actually respect the OP here. I go out of my way to avoid pushers, and only play them in tournaments where I have no choice.

I usually beat them, but I've taken some frustrating beatings from them, though nowadays I usually have too much pace and smarts...but not always, sometimes they get me.

A couple of months ago I played a former 4.0 who got bumped to 4.5 in a friendly tourney and he had the pusher/retriever/lobbing/dropshot, thing going on. I was out late the previous night, exhausted and he got me in straights, I've never been so frustrated with myself.

But at the end I congratulated him. He was used to getting a lot of derision from vanquished opponents and I said "hey, at least your winning your matches."

But I enjoy hard hitting matches, and hate pushers, so I can sympathize with the OP who was playing a friendly match.

It is generally accepted that pushers do not exist above the 4.0 level, simply due to how other players adapt at that level. More so, the OP describes this guy as having no technique, while a supposed 4.5 is judged based exactly on his technique. Maybe there are defensively minded players or counter punchers, but pushers, by definition of technique, do not exist at this level.

Now that that is out of the way, you claim that you played out the loss and congratulated the defensive player. This was a much more mature response, especially considering that you claim to have been very frustrated. For what it's worth, I think that you handled the situation well.

LeeD
01-30-2012, 01:05 PM
Regardless of playing level, style, technique, basically you don't like to adapt and especially, don't like to lose.
Well, better quit tennis now or maybe become one of those "hitters" who hit great in practice with their favorite partner, but never play any matches because it might mean playing someone who's also trying to beat you.

TheOneHander
01-30-2012, 04:08 PM
This is a bit of a flawed analogy. One very similar example to your is early Federer vs Hewitt. In their early meetings, Federer would try to rush the net in order to attack Hewitt's defense. As he became more comfortable from the back court, he became more patient. From there, he learned that Hewitt didn't really have the firepower to hurt him from there, while he himself had enough defense to stay with Hewitt until his offense was able to end the point. Does this make Hewitt the better player? Then again, you also claim that powerful shots make the better player.

It's also a poor analogy because there is no link between sudoku and accounting. Yes, both take a relatively level of intelligence, but that analogy is like saying that since a poet cannot write a persuasive speech means that he is a poor writer. No one will care about a sudoku puzzle for an accounting , as it is not an indicator of skill in that profession. However, anyone with half a brain and some basic tennis skills can beat a pusher, and if they can't, they lack the tools (or the tennis smarts) to be able to execute a winning game plan against this very simple player.

Regardless of playing level, style, technique, basically you don't like to adapt and especially, don't like to lose.
Well, better quit tennis now or maybe become one of those "hitters" who hit great in practice with their favorite partner, but never play any matches because it might mean playing someone who's also trying to beat you.

That sounds like a good solution. This way, people can still think of themselves as great players with no damage to their egos, and they don't have to debate with the rest of the tennis community about these sort of things. It's a win-win!

Timbo's hopeless slice
01-30-2012, 07:08 PM
I am more and more convinced teh OP is winding you all up. Nobody would admit to being that much of an idiot, although I bet there are plenty who do think like that!

gindyo
01-30-2012, 07:09 PM
HA HA HA HA
This thread is hilarious. It looks like someone was bored and felt like yanking some chains, and as always TW community does not disappoint. Trolling rulessssss :)

Roddick33
01-30-2012, 07:09 PM
You know what I do to pushers? I pull them.

Ehehehe

Tyrus
01-31-2012, 11:42 AM
I'm just going to leave this right here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ayb8sAihvxU

'Right' and 'wrong' are just words.

Actions are everything.

TTMR
01-31-2012, 11:48 AM
You are correct that one of you was utilizing failed tactics (the one who was losing) and one of you was a coward (the one who quit). It just wasn't the person you think it was.


I expected this answer eventually.

Yes, you could make that argument. But just as easily, and much more correctly, you could say that one person was willing to take a stand. One person was willing to say 'enough is enough' to the pusher, and not dignify his antics with the on-court collapse his sadistic mind craves.

That's what pushers are all about, and that's why they need to be extricated from the game, or at least consigned to play against one another only. All they serve to do is drag us hitters down to their level. Me? I won't accept drowning in a sea of 1880s slow motion ping pong. I come to the court willing to bring the heat, and willing to feel the heat from the other guy. I only wish my opponent had embraced the same values.

Pushers don't play tennis. If they could, they wouldn't be pushing. At pushing, no doubt, my opponent was the victor. But at tennis, he doesn't hold a candle.

TTMR
01-31-2012, 11:53 AM
I'm trying to imagine how you play a point... And it goes like this:

Since you've got so much "heat" (LOL! heat, frontrunner of power baseline, whatever helps you want to call yourself) from the baseline, of course whoever you play will be pinned against the fence. Eventually you get a short ball, so you have to come into the net, I wonder what would you do:

1) I'm not running up there, this fool isn't playing real tennis if the ball can't land behind the service line. If it doesn't get to me in one bounce, I'm walking.

2) Be predictable and blast another one back to the person pinned against the fence. Then look up at the sky: "is it a bird? is it a plane?" No, it's another lob winner because your dumb***** decides to blast another one back to the opponent.

3) A simple drop shot.

I'm pulling for the 2nd option. Since he refuses to accept the existence of junk/short balls. And there'll be no drop shot, cause it's not real tennis.

Let's not exaggerate here. My feet aren't glued to the baseline. On a short ball, I blast the ball to where he is not standing, or otherwise work the angle. Whenever he delivers his puff-ball lobs--unless they are perfectly placed--I smash them with impunity.

TheOneHander
01-31-2012, 12:00 PM
In that event, you shouldn't have had a problem with "smashing" his puffy lobs. No pusher can hit a perfectly placed lob with intent, much less on a consistent basis-they are just pushers, after all.

beernutz
01-31-2012, 01:14 PM
Troll or moron? Honestly, does it really matter which? Either way you turn out to be nothing but a time-wasting fool.

FD3S
01-31-2012, 05:23 PM
I expected this answer eventually.

Yes, you could make that argument. But just as easily, and much more correctly, you could say that one person was willing to take a stand. One person was willing to say 'enough is enough' to the pusher, and not dignify his antics with the on-court collapse his sadistic mind craves.

That's what pushers are all about, and that's why they need to be extricated from the game, or at least consigned to play against one another only. All they serve to do is drag us hitters down to their level. Me? I won't accept drowning in a sea of 1880s slow motion ping pong. I come to the court willing to bring the heat, and willing to feel the heat from the other guy. I only wish my opponent had embraced the same values.

Pushers don't play tennis. If they could, they wouldn't be pushing. At pushing, no doubt, my opponent was the victor. But at tennis, he doesn't hold a candle.

Pushing is a valid way to play the game, man. If anything I gotta give credit to your opponent; it takes guts to admit to yourself mid beatdown that what you're doing isn't working, and if you keep doing it then you're going to lose. He adapted his game, threw in softballs and junk shots, and sounded like he was well on his way to picking up the W before you walked off.

There are no style points in tennis. The victory (or comeback to 6-5, in this case) will always go to the person who deserves it. But hey; you've got your convictions on how this game should be played, and that's consolation in itself, I suppose.

Timbo's hopeless slice
01-31-2012, 05:28 PM
look, I have always thought OP was trolling, but there is a reason we write numbers in the score book instead of drawing pictures.

Or, as my father used to say of batting in cricket, 'it's not 'how', it's 'how many!'

rafafan20
02-01-2012, 02:40 PM
I'm a pusher, wanna play?

Say Chi Sin Lo
02-01-2012, 03:36 PM
I'm a pusher, wanna play?

Somebody please record this and post it.

We should get a poll going on how many games until the dude take the tennis ball and runs away.

I'm going with the 4th game, and down 2 breaks.

Frank Silbermann
02-01-2012, 03:47 PM
Recently (I think maybe during the '80s) I read a story in a tennis magazine about a club ladder with a new member whose sole technique was to take every ball and loft it a hundred feet up in the air. Even when it came down, it bounced too high to smash. He started beating everyone until one guy took a few hours to practice hitting sky balls himself. The next match, both players were hitting every ball a hundred feet up in the air, and in the seven-hour match the newcomer proved just slightly less consistent.

Now, up until the hero spent a few hours practicing his sky balls, would you claim that the newcomer was the better tennis player? The sky ball was all he had.

And would you blame anyone who refused to participate in such a masochistic exercise?

Say Chi Sin Lo
02-01-2012, 03:52 PM
And would you blame anyone who refused to participate in such a masochistic exercise?

Of course not, all we're saying is, there's no place to be a poor sportsman in sports.

LeeD
02-01-2012, 04:12 PM
FrankS....
Lobber is the best of that club, where 3.5 is the top level player.

Roddick33
02-01-2012, 04:16 PM
I used to ragequit to pushers, but then I turned 4.

TTMR
02-02-2012, 01:55 PM
I should have also mentioned that I drove him to the courts and after I left he had to find another way home.

Sid_Vicious
02-02-2012, 06:12 PM
Man, TTMR has got some trolling skills. :lol:

I have newfound respect. This thread rivals Suresh's masterpiece "Women athletically superior to men"

Timbo's hopeless slice
02-02-2012, 06:13 PM
you see? he had you on teh hook in that other thread for a while, eh? :)

Sid_Vicious
02-02-2012, 06:19 PM
you see? he had you on teh hook in that other thread for a while, eh? :)

Absolutely.And you know what else,Timbo? it was not the first time he had me on the hook.

I found a picture of TTMR on the internet

http://s3-ak.buzzfed.com/static/imagebuzz/web03/2010/9/20/21/yep-13160-1285032010-2.jpg

danno123
02-02-2012, 06:31 PM
Absolutely.And you know what else,Timbo? it was not the first time he had me on the hook.

I found a picture of TTMR on the internet

http://s3-ak.buzzfed.com/static/imagebuzz/web03/2010/9/20/21/yep-13160-1285032010-2.jpg

+1. Well played, sir.

eric draven
02-03-2012, 12:31 PM
You never forget the first time you beat a pusher... Well at least some players never do.

Cross-court
02-05-2012, 10:34 PM
The OP is having the last laugh with this thread

Failed
02-06-2012, 11:58 AM
The difference is, in the past when I played this guy and things became tough for him, he would hit harder. I did the same. He and I had an implicit understanding that we would go down with the ship playing legitimate tennis, not imitating the septuagenarians with their oversized racquets and 15 MPH strokes on the next court. He couldn't stand losing the right way, so he started phoning it in, and just happened to be successful this time. He betrayed our 'tennis relationship', and that's what I call truly poor sportsmanship.

I've played pushers before and blasted them with ease. Oddly enough, I noticed before the match the city had resurfaced the courts and I suspect they slowed them down, probably again to benefit the senior community. There's no way I would have lost that day on a real court.



In my defense, I forgot they were his balls in the heat of the moment and gathered them without thinking. It was not done deliberately. Had I been willing to see him again, I would have happily returned them.

Seriously... so your idea of tennis is, who ever hits the ball harder, be it our or in, is the better player.

TTMR
02-07-2012, 09:00 AM
Seriously... so your idea of tennis is, who ever hits the ball harder, be it our or in, is the better player.

A person who can smack the ball hard demonstrates he has the strength and athleticism to blow over the kids, stay at home rich wives and geriatrics that predominate the rec scene. Maybe the hitter can only 'stay hot' for one out of three matches. But in that one match, you can see the dejected look on opponents' faces as another winner screams by. That look of helplessness is what I, as a hitter long for.

TTMR, you are completely correct, everything you say/do makes you awesome and the rest of us terrible...real tennis players hit the fuzz off the ball all the time. Old people and little kids need to step down so the real 3.5's of this world can come in and play....

Finally someone who gets it. I have no problem with old people, kids and weak-kneed 'men' playing pusher ball. I just don't want to play them, and I don't want to have to wait for their Puffball The Magic Lob fair to finish so I can get a game in. I don't think that's too much to ask.

eric draven
02-07-2012, 09:43 AM
I should have also mentioned that I drove him to the courts and after I left he had to find another way home.

LOL! Hope you took his rackets with you too. Someone who plays like that doesn't deserve real sticks. Buy him the 22" Barbie special from Walmart and give him his rackets back when he plays "man tennis" right?

fibonacci888
02-07-2012, 09:50 AM
I should have also mentioned that I drove him to the courts and after I left he had to find another way home.

now i know you're just trolling.

Good job, you had me convinced for a while this was serious.

TimothyO
02-07-2012, 10:10 AM
I don't think the OP is trolling.

There are lots of lower level players just like him who can't generate their own pace or handle shot variety.

They can only feed off their opponent's pace since, when they try to generate their own, they completely lose control and spray balls all over the place. They WANT to "hit hard" but can't, at least on their own.

And they lack the experience to handle a huge variety of shots and can't change gears in real time as a more skilled opponents changes pace, angle, and depth. They NEED an opponet who plays like a human ball machine hitting only to their strike zone.

The OP is NOT troll. He's simply not as good as he thinks since he can't generate pace or handle shot variety.

Thus he's frustrated when faced with a better opponent.

Say Chi Sin Lo
02-07-2012, 12:11 PM
A person who can smack the ball hard demonstrates he has the strength and athleticism to blow over the kids, stay at home rich wives and geriatrics that predominate the rec scene. Maybe the hitter can only 'stay hot' for one out of three matches. But in that one match, you can see the dejected look on opponents' faces as another winner screams by. That look of helplessness is what I, as a hitter long for.



What's next? Doubles is not real tennis?

I guess Tomic isn't a deserving top 50 then?

Hell then maybe Federer isn't deserving of his 16 Slams titles, 1/4 of his winners and forced errors come from drop shots, volleys, and off-pace short angle winners.

user92626
02-07-2012, 12:22 PM
A person who can smack the ball hard demonstrates he has the strength and athleticism to blow over the kids, stay at home rich wives and geriatrics that predominate the rec scene. Maybe the hitter can only 'stay hot' for one out of three matches. But in that one match, you can see the dejected look on opponents' faces as another winner screams by. That look of helplessness is what I, as a hitter long for.






I don't understand. So, why can't you hit all your winners and call it a day? Or deep down, you are really one of those you detest who can't hit the ball passed anyone. You're just hating your own tennis and taking it out on others. Makes alot of sense.

Netzroller
02-07-2012, 12:22 PM
Damn, how did I not discover his gem of a thread earlier :lol:

In case the OP is really serious and not trying to take trolling to a level never seen before I would recommend him to stop playing tennis and start figure skating. Seems to be a more appropriate sport for him...


Recently (I think maybe during the '80s) I read a story in a tennis magazine about a club ladder with a new member whose sole technique was to take every ball and loft it a hundred feet up in the air.
Wait till indoor season, then he's screwed8-)

NJ1
02-07-2012, 12:27 PM
Pretty sure this thread is an attempt to be funny that is about a year past its sell by date.

TimothyO
02-08-2012, 06:12 AM
Pretty sure this thread is an attempt to be funny that is about a year past its sell by date.

Nah, the OP is serious. I've met plenty of people like him. Hit him a hard shot and he'll block it back and congratulate himself on a fine shot.

Slice him a high floater and he'll hit it over the fence since he lacks control when generating his own pace.

Our ALTA pro tells us to try to identify this type early in the match and feed him floaters for an easy win.

CDestroyer
02-08-2012, 06:39 AM
The OP is a cowardly man child who thinks he is better but he clearly is not. His opponents must play "real tennis" (sounds like verdasco) and his matches must be played on real courts. Apparently a recently resurfaced court is not good enough for him.

Man up...............but I doubt it.

TTMR
02-08-2012, 08:17 AM
I don't understand. So, why can't you hit all your winners and call it a day? Or deep down, you are really one of those you detest who can't hit the ball passed anyone. You're just hating your own tennis and taking it out on others. Makes alot of sense.

A self-hating pusher? There's a new one.

Nah, the OP is serious. I've met plenty of people like him. Hit him a hard shot and he'll block it back and congratulate himself on a fine shot.

Slice him a high floater and he'll hit it over the fence since he lacks control when generating his own pace.

Our ALTA pro tells us to try to identify this type early in the match and feed him floaters for an easy win.

In other words, your ALTA pro advocates pushing. I hope you're not paying the guy.

The OP is a cowardly man child who thinks he is better but he clearly is not. His opponents must play "real tennis" (sounds like verdasco) and his matches must be played on real courts. Apparently a recently resurfaced court is not good enough for him.

Man up...............but I doubt it.

No, a resurfaced court that is made basically of sand is not good enough for me. The previous court was slick and low bouncing, the way old school s&v artists and new school shotmakers like me enjoy it. However, the kids and old people have trouble chasing down the balls and prefer their serve-less bunting rallies, so no doubt they complained and the city listened. Special interest groups always take precedence over an adult non-minority male, especially here.

jht32
02-08-2012, 10:00 AM
While it was fun while it lasted, let's get real now. TTMR is being sarcastic in this thread.

But this thread is not about TTMR, it is about some stuff that is posted on TT. Because there are such crazy posts that are "real" posts, people actually have a hard time differentiating between real posts and sarcastic posts. This is the sad part.

TTMR, there are some of us who do get your point that people who complain about pushers have no basis for complaint.

What I truly don't know though, is if the handful of people who voted that "you were right" are being sarcastic or real. My guess is that some of these people are for real.

LeeD
02-08-2012, 10:04 AM
I understand TTMR's point. Playing fast slick courts, I can actually pretend to be a decent player.
Slow abrasive courts tend to bring out the worst in me (impatience, #1), and I can fall apart. Couple slow abrasive courts with smart pushers, and I"m flumoxed most often. Tri slow abrasive courts with smart pushers (weaker hitters), add hot temps and early match, I'm out...:):)

martini1
02-08-2012, 03:27 PM
Clearly we know who is the better player and who can't take losing like a man. "Look, I can't hit the ball and then hit it back at the same time!" :lol:

Cross-court
02-08-2012, 09:21 PM
...shotmakers like me enjoy it...

"Shotmaker" huh.

Cross-court
02-08-2012, 10:06 PM
Tennis isn't about "blasting the ball" all the time. Only a fool thinks like that.

Tennis is about variety and being able to play with different speeds, angles, spins, etc.

I know this guy, he only knows how to blast the ball and generally plays at only one speed: fast.

This other guy, on the contrary, can't blast the ball as hard as the other one, but he has more variety; he slices, plays flat, loopy, slow, fast, angled, etc. and completely dominates the "ball crusher". The "power player" is completely helpless against the other "varied" player.

KenC
02-08-2012, 10:59 PM
I understand this thread is for trolling, but I never could understood the problem people here have with pushers. They get every ball back but that ball is not going to do any damage. What's the problem? You are not consistent? I swear everyone is too enamored with winners and excessive topspin to realize that there is much more to tennis based on strategy.

Lesson 1 against pushers. Stop thinking about hitting winners off their pusher shots. That's what they want you to do, because they know you will make an unforced error.

Lesson 2 against pushers. Go into "consistent" mode and start hitting balls that will take them out of their safety box. Alternate corners but with a high degree of consistency and get them moving a lot. In other words, don't make it comfortable for them to push.

Lesson 3 against pushers. They usually are deathly afraid of the net. Start hitting drop shots and very short balls that force them to either approach the net or run well into no man's land and then have to run back to the baseline for the next shot. If they do approach the net and can volley a bit, drive one really hard at their right hip and hope you are off a bit. That will get them running back to the baseline after every drop shot or short ball. They will tire very soon with this strategy.

Lesson 4 against pushers. Remind him, in a friendly manner, that your grandmother hits the ball harder than they do. And she's been dead for 3 years. Tell him that only gays play tennis like that. Yesterday you saw a 6yo girl taking her first lesson and was already hitting harder than him. That kind of stuff.

Lesson 5 against pushers. If you can't beat a pusher, you will never be able to beat a good player. If you can't beat a 4.0 pusher you are then a 4.0 or below. Take some lessons and learn how to hit hard consistently and you won't have any problems against people who can't hit hard consistently.

TimothyO
02-09-2012, 05:35 AM
No, a resurfaced court that is made basically of sand is not good enough for me. The previous court was slick and low bouncing, the way old school s&v artists and new school shotmakers like me enjoy it. However, the kids and old people have trouble chasing down the balls and prefer their serve-less bunting rallies, so no doubt they complained and the city listened. Special interest groups always take precedence over an adult non-minority male, especially here.

First you blame your opponent for not feeding you balls that you can hit.

Now you blame the court for not supporting your weak shots by returning more energy to your shots.

It's not the opponent and it's not the court. It's you.

You can't hit accurately while generating your own pace. You need the opponent and the court to do it for you.

Solution: get some lessons and practice, practice, practice.

Or buy a ball machine and hit only on soild concrete since that sounds like the only way you can win (make sure the ball machine can't vary spin, speed, or direction...wouldn't want to limit your fun.)

danno123
02-09-2012, 06:17 AM
I also recognize that the thread was started purely to evoke a reaction but it's a good thread to discuss "pushers." (I don't actually like the term "pusher" because there's no real definition of the term but for purposes of this thread, I'll use it). Here are my thoughts on "pushers":

-the pusher plays more like Roger Federer than I do. Seriously. When Federer hits a shot, it's generally a shot he can hit 80-85% of the time. Even though the pusher's shot doesn't look like Federer's, the pusher's percentage is similar, so he's playing the game like Federer does. I try to strike the ball like Federer but for me, such shots are roughly a 50/50 gamble so I'm not actually playing like Federer at all.

-playing a pusher is nerve-wracking. I get more nervous playing pushers than I do when playing guys who hit winners. The reason is simple - if I lose a point (or game or set or match), it's because of what I did. My opponent didn't win, I lost. All the pressure is on me. Also, it's nerve-wracking because the ball comes more slowly (and usually higher) than I'm used to. This has many adverse effects on my game: (1) I have time to think about the shot while the ball is coming (and sometimes change my mind about the shot I'm going to hit); (2) I tend to get lazy feet and not run as fast as I should; (3) it takes my strokes out of my comfort zone because I don't usually hit a lot of high slow shots; (4) I try to hit winners on these sitters but, because I don't hit a lot of high sitters, I make some errors.

I do better against pushers now because every month or so I'll set the ball machine up to hit high soft shots and play a drill where I have to hit the ball from one side of the court to the other and after I hit 5 safe shots, I try to hit the winner.

I still lose against guys that some would classify as "pushers" but it's part of the game and they are actually good smart players. It's my experience that the really good "pushers" aren't just guys who dink the ball back every time - they are guys who dink the ball back until they get an opportunity to hit a winner. In my mind, that's good smart playing. I really should adopt that strategy myself (i.e., hit deep safe shots until I get something I can attack rather than trying to attack balls I shouldn't).

edited to add: TTMR really ought to add the fact that, after the match, he stole the pusher's girlfriend away from him. He wasn't really interested in her but did it just because pushers shouldn't have girlfriends.

dsa202
02-13-2012, 08:48 AM
If everyone played the game the same it would be boring. Pushers are just a different style of tennis. Some people are built to be hard hitters, and are some are faster, so they take up that style of tennis. Who are we to judge how they play? A pusher could say the same thing about your game. Never keeps more than 2 balls on the court, cant get into a rhythm because hes too busy bashing the ball. Pushing is harder than it looks, not all players can be successful pushers. If you have such a "big" game, you should work on playing these players. Sure they can get under your skin one day, but they more practice you have against them the better you'll be able to handle your partner when he employs these tactics.

I think you have to grow up a little bit and realize you were in the wrong here. If I were you I would apologize to your opponent. I'm sure he'll understand your brief moment of ignorance.

Nathaniel_Near
02-13-2012, 02:15 PM
I've mentioned this incident from a few years ago in another thread before and received some flak but I'd like some opinions on how well I handled the situation and whether or not I made the right decision:



Personally, I think that is the only way to handle pushers and junk ballers; ignore them, don't play them and ostracize them until they are willing to man up and play real tennis. When that happens, we can get down to business. What do you think?

This is really, REALLY weak, and this is coming from an attacking player of any sport I play.

You are a disgra.. OK I won't be quite that harsh but it's horrendously weak.:evil::evil::evil::evil:

I'm gonna assume you're chill though and that this thread is some kind of obtuse satire. I mean, who makes this thread seriously?

Chenx15
02-13-2012, 02:23 PM
is your name by any chance boris becker? there is such a thing as winning ugly. i believe the greatest coach of all time made that book. what is tennis? the common concept of tennis is to hit the ball over the net and not go outside the lines. if he is doing that then he is playing real tennis. i don't understand what you meant by real tennis

Netspirit
02-13-2012, 02:28 PM
"I warned you", said Federer to Nadal, "one more high looper to my backhand and I am quitting! I am here to play real tennis, not some hacky exploits".

Then he stole Nadal's balls and left the arena.

USERNAME
02-13-2012, 02:32 PM
OP is a scrub! Get all butt hurt when someone puts a new game plan into action that works. OP, your a sore loser and doing that guy a favor by not playing with him.

ZeroSkid
02-13-2012, 09:30 PM
I've mentioned this incident from a few years ago in another thread before and received some flak but I'd like some opinions on how well I handled the situation and whether or not I made the right decision:



Personally, I think that is the only way to handle pushers and junk ballers; ignore them, don't play them and ostracize them until they are willing to man up and play real tennis. When that happens, we can get down to business. What do you think?

I know how you feel but you were wrong here, it is clearly a mental battle you have to get through

Frank Silbermann
02-14-2012, 04:07 AM
"I warned you", said Federer to Nadal, "one more high looper to my backhand and I am quitting! I am here to play real tennis, not some hacky exploits".

Then he stole Nadal's balls and left the arena. Loopers are not pushers. Pushers _push_ -- that is, they have tortoise-slow racket head speed. If your shots bounce big, that's a form of power.

Frank Silbermann
02-14-2012, 04:15 AM
Personally, I think that is the only way to handle pushers and junk ballers; ignore them, don't play them and ostracize them until they are willing to man up and play real tennis. When that happens, we can get down to business. What do you think? The trouble is that everyone hits a shot like that sooner or later, even without meaning to, e.g. when desperately trying to return a wide serve. When he does that, the opponent will get the idea that it's OK for _him_ to do that. Then it becomes too arbitrary as to how much is too much.

On the other hand, I suppose we do have the same problem with hooking/cheating, and it probably is a good idea not to play with those who are flagrantly doing this as a tactic. But if you want to get anywhere in a tournament you have to be able to keep playing without your game falling apart.

chippy17
02-14-2012, 05:05 AM
the aim of the game of tennis (if you are playing a match) is to win/not hit the ball outside of the white lines, how that is achieved is largely irrelevant so to moan about the way someone else is playing when they are beating you is pathetic

i play a gent (who people on here would descirbe as a pusher) and I actually quite enjoy playing him occasionally because he is different and it helps my game. He cannot out power me so plays little dinks, lobs, nasty slices and places the ball exceptionally well, it shows up my deficiencies and helps me improve

TennisCJC
02-14-2012, 06:51 AM
I think players who say "my opponent did not hit it hard enough for me to play well" are delusional and it is just a MAJOR cop-out. If your opponent hits loads of junk, it can be frustrating but part of the game is learning to deal with it. I have lost matches to guys who abandoned trying to hit with me and resorted to loopers, drop-shots, and lobs. But, I view it as my weakness that they won. I don't like to play people who play like this but you will find them at most levels and it is my job to develop the skills to beat them.

True story: we played in team tennis city finals. Our number 1 singles player played #1 on div 2 college team (now around 30 years old) and was a strong attacking player with power game. He had not lost all season. He played a 140 lb guy or hit everything about 40 mph and was fast as a rabbit. Our guy lost in straight sets. This would be about 4.5-5.0 level tennis or so A1 level in local leauge.

You see the "pusher" at almost all levels including the pros - see Wozniacki, Santoro. Geez, even Federer junk balls Roddick and Djokovic to death with his slice. They both hate it.

Another true story. We had a player on the team that was probably the 14th best player on a roster of 14 players. He was a big guy who hit everything about as hard as he could. But, he can not get 3 balls in a row in the court. He frequently complained that his opponents did not hit it hard enough for him to play well. He lost about 4 out of 5 times. This isn't tennis - it is a cop-out.

Say Chi Sin Lo
02-14-2012, 11:51 AM
^^^ Very true. A lost is a lost, and it's because you did something wrong or you couldn't achieve something in the match.

A while ago, I was playing a tournament at the 4.0 level and I drew the ONLY pusher/dinker in the tournament. I was like FML! And I knew it was going to get ugly.

I lost the 1st set badly because I couldn't get into a rhythm. I knew in the 2nd set I had to do something different. I can't just let him dictate the points from the baseline, with his odd bounces and unexpected off pace shots. So I started to serve and volley, chip and charge all the time. Basically, I wasn't going to let the ball bounce and force him to hit a winner/passing shot. I was able to win the 2nd set.

However, I ended up losing the match because my volleying skills was not good enough to sustain the winning strategy. After the match, the pusher was very nice and even said to me "you should have won, you have far better strokes than I do."

I said something along the lines of "better strokes or not, you exposed my weakness (impatience, and crap volleying skills), so I should thank you instead. You deserved the win."

OP, just stop playing tennis. Or play a team sport, so the coach can bench you for being a sore loser and the lack of sportsmanship.

user92626
02-14-2012, 12:31 PM
Say Chi,

Your opponent pushed and at the same time dictated the points from baseline? To me that sounds a little contradicting. A player either has the commanding of shots, ie good, dictating groundstrokes, or he has mediocre strokes and only able to put the ball back in play, ie pushing.

Say Chi Sin Lo
02-14-2012, 05:20 PM
Say Chi,

Your opponent pushed and at the same time dictated the points from baseline? To me that sounds a little contradicting. A player either has the commanding of shots, ie good, dictating groundstrokes, or he has mediocre strokes and only able to put the ball back in play, ie pushing.

Well, he didn't have commanding shots, but because I was very uncomfortable with his odd bounces/off-pace shots, he was able to dictate the points if I stayed back.

So, because of my inability to get into a rhythm from the baseline, he was able to dictate the points. I know, sounds weird.

gmatheis
02-14-2012, 05:28 PM
TTMR

Read the numbers man ... 86% of voters think you were wrong.

#1 It was a dbag move to pick up and leave especially since you were the guys ride and he did nothing wrong other than BEAT YOU.

TheOneHander
02-15-2012, 02:34 AM
You guys must know by now that this was a satiric thread.

TimothyO
02-15-2012, 03:08 AM
You guys must know by now that this was a satiric thread.

No, the OP just can't play tennis and is frustrated. He just needs a new hobby that doesn't involve opponents.

Heck, based on his own description of his playing style, I could easily beat him and I've only been playing less than two years.

Ironically enough, HE'S the one who can't play "real tennis" since, by his own admission, he can't generate his own pace.

TimothyO
02-15-2012, 03:15 AM
I also recognize that the thread was started purely to evoke a reaction but it's a good thread to discuss "pushers."

The OP accused the COURT SURFACE and parks department for his loss. This isn't about pushers. The OP just doesn't understand how to play tennis.

He thinks it's like playing catch and hitting the ball to one another (he probably thinks pros get into long rallies because they're hitting the ball to each other).

I will grant this: he's probably just a teenager. If he hadn't mentioned driving I would have said 13-14 but he must be a very immature 16-17.

Frank Silbermann
02-15-2012, 04:03 AM
(About the tennis story I described in which this guy was beating everyone by hitting everything 100 ft straight up in the air.)

FrankS....
Lobber is the best of that club, where 3.5 is the top level player. Well, this was written in the early / middle 1980s, back one someone who played like one of today's strong 3.5s would have been considered a 5.0 (based on the NTRP Guidelines; most players back then were still using the old-school correct ground-stroke technique).

Frank Silbermann
02-15-2012, 04:05 AM
You see the "pusher" at almost all levels including the pros - see Wozniacki, Santoro. Geez, even Federer junk balls Roddick and Djokovic to death with his slice. They both hate it. I think there's a difference between someone who junk-balls because that's all he's got, versus someone who is doing that to exploit a specific weakness in his opponent.

jonestim
02-15-2012, 08:47 PM
The pusher beat him both in score and the mental game. That's a total defeat.

user92626
02-16-2012, 09:09 AM
The pusher beat him both in score and the mental game. That's a total defeat.

But he beat us all at trolling though. So, it's not total. :)

thug the bunny
02-16-2012, 11:15 AM
But he beat us all at trolling though. So, it's not total. :)

Duh! That's why I didn't join this party. OP is like a long-liner fisherman. Was kinda fun to read though.

user92626
02-16-2012, 01:10 PM
Duh! That's why I didn't join this party. OP is like a long-liner fisherman. Was kinda fun to read though.

Then what the hell are you doing in here? Certainly you're not sending the thread to the bottom. LOL.

corbind
02-16-2012, 09:55 PM
OP TTMR, I gotta hand it to you, this thread made me really mad. I wanted to punch you in the head after reading your posts! If this thread event really happened, I think you are a jerk on a massive scale and pray God makes it so you somehow never play again.

If this scenario you posted is a ficticious and your way of laughing your (something) off at our expense -- my hat is off to you. :)

Say Chi Sin Lo
02-17-2012, 09:05 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUvvX1SwQTw&feature=related

TTMR
02-21-2012, 04:03 AM
The OP accused the COURT SURFACE and parks department for his loss. This isn't about pushers. The OP just doesn't understand how to play tennis.

He thinks it's like playing catch and hitting the ball to one another (he probably thinks pros get into long rallies because they're hitting the ball to each other).

I will grant this: he's probably just a teenager. If he hadn't mentioned driving I would have said 13-14 but he must be a very immature 16-17.

I play tennis the way I live my life: on the edge. One strike tennis, baby.

What you got?

VadeRetro
02-21-2012, 02:51 PM
The last time a guy junkballed me, I called him a sissy!

Humble_Warrior
02-21-2012, 02:57 PM
This whole post is a con job. No one can be this stupid.

Apparently, he is!!

Humble_Warrior
02-21-2012, 03:00 PM
I laugh when i finish reading your post, he is beating you and you think you are too good to play him.

What is real tennis? There is no right or wrong way to hit a tennis ball, but there is a better way.

Amen to that. So he is supposed to beat you playing your game. That is so assinine. Whatever works within the rules is my motto.

TTMR
03-12-2012, 03:35 AM
edited to add: TTMR really ought to add the fact that, after the match, he stole the pusher's girlfriend away from him. He wasn't really interested in her but did it just because pushers shouldn't have girlfriends.

You are right that pushers are not entitled to romantic companionship, and in theory I would do as you suggest. However, even though I am a hitter, I would not hit a pusher's sloppy seconds, even if I was guaranteed the bagel. Furthermore, after multiple sessions of pushing, I doubt she would be able to handle my hard and heavy strokes. A big ace down the middle, and that would be it.

TimothyO
03-12-2012, 04:23 AM
You are right that pushers are not entitled to romantic companionship, and in theory I would do as you suggest. However, even though I am a hitter, I would not hit a pusher's sloppy seconds, even if I was guaranteed the bagel. Furthermore, after multiple sessions of pushing, I doubt she would be able to handle my high paced strokes. A big ace down the middle, and that would be it.

You're not a "hitter". By your own admission you can't generate your own pace. You've blamed everything from opponents not hitting the ball back to you to the court surface for your loss. You'll never bagle a pusher since you can't hit winners except off a ball machine popping softballs to your strike zone. Even then the ball machine is probably having an off day.

You're delusional if you think you can hit an ace down the middle while blaming the court surface and parks department for your tennis woes.

TimothyO
03-12-2012, 04:24 AM
I play tennis the way I live my life: on the edge. One strike tennis, baby.

What you got?

That certainly explains why the parks department beat you in tennis...You stink.

jdubbs
03-12-2012, 08:05 AM
I play with a guy who can hit out, but he dropshots me all the time. We were playing a friendly game of 15 (no serves, just groundstrokes) and after like the 5th time in a row where he dropshotted me, I yelled at him "OK! I GET IT! YOU CAN HIT A DROPSHOT! NOW START HITTING THE BALL!"

And to his credit, he did, and it was a lot more fun. This is a 4.5 with a good serve and groundstrokes, and a friend where we just have friendly matches.
I don't mind dropshots, but not on every freaking shot, I'm here to play tennis, not friggin' patty-cake.

TimothyO
03-12-2012, 09:32 AM
If someone is repeatedly drop shotting you and you're not hitting winners off extreme angles then you need to work on your net game and anticipation skills.

jdubbs
03-12-2012, 09:54 AM
If someone is repeatedly drop shotting you and you're not hitting winners off extreme angles then you need to work on your net game and anticipation skills.

I have worked on that, and I can get to most of those dropshots, to the point where it doesn't work on me anymore. I put most of them away.

The point was, I was playing a friend with a high level game, where we are both looking to improve. Trying to play an all-dropshot game doesn't work at our level, where we see former college players and the like. They just put them away or set up for an easy volley.

So I told him to stop dropshotting so much when we're just practicing and work on really hitting the ball more.

He knows that this doesn't work at a high level, but he still tries to beat me with it. Truth is, it doesn't work on me. So I was doing him a favor by telling him that the pusher game is not going to work at our level. So stop with the dropshots.

At 4.0 and below, it certainly does work. But do you really want to play that way?

Frank Silbermann
03-12-2012, 07:46 PM
I have worked on that, and I can get to most of those dropshots, to the point where it doesn't work on me anymore. I put most of them away.

The point was, I was playing a friend with a high level game, where we are both looking to improve. Trying to play an all-dropshot game doesn't work at our level, where we see former college players and the like. They just put them away or set up for an easy volley.

So I told him to stop dropshotting so much when we're just practicing and work on really hitting the ball more.

He knows that this doesn't work at a high level, but he still tries to beat me with it. Truth is, it doesn't work on me. So I was doing him a favor by telling him that the pusher game is not going to work at our level. So stop with the dropshots.

At 4.0 and below, it certainly does work. But do you really want to play that way?

It works at the very highest levels of tennis, provided you're in a high enough age group.

Timbo's hopeless slice
03-12-2012, 08:21 PM
I love how this thread has sucked in exaclty the kind of ppl the OP was after, the truly horrible players who have taken the game up later in life, learned it from the internet and are now self appointed gurus.

there is a guy in another thread who spends a lot of time defending a particular coaching methodology and banging on about his 'modern game'. Well, he posted a video, and it is just hideous, an horrendous caricature of 'modern tennis', all moonball FH from open stance.

folks like this make easy marks for the likes of TTMR.

all self righteous indignation and 'learn to play properly' huffing and puffing.

I am shocked that a couple of the less mordidly stupid posters on TT have also fallen for it, though...

jdubbs
03-13-2012, 09:50 AM
I love how this thread has sucked in exaclty the kind of ppl the OP was after, the truly horrible players who have taken the game up later in life, learned it from the internet and are now self appointed gurus.

there is a guy in another thread who spends a lot of time defending a particular coaching methodology and banging on about his 'modern game'. Well, he posted a video, and it is just hideous, an horrendous caricature of 'modern tennis', all moonball FH from open stance.

folks like this make easy marks for the likes of TTMR.

all self righteous indignation and 'learn to play properly' huffing and puffing.

I am shocked that a couple of the less mordidly stupid posters on TT have also fallen for it, though...

Self taught hackers who give advice need to stop. If you're pushing to win, then learn how to play the game the right way.

I'm a horrible, self taught golfer, but you don't see me giving advice on a golf forum. I'm lucky enough to have had lessons growing up and continue to take them when I can to improve. I'll post a vid soon so you can see that I try to play the "right" way.

UCSF2012
03-13-2012, 11:20 AM
If you're pushing to win, then learn how to play the game the right way.


There is no "right way." Pushing is a legitimate strategy. Keep getting the ball back until your opponent slowly breaks down mentally. D1 players push all the time. Sampras pushed during tie breaks. Andy Murray was known as a pusher all the way to the pros.

Larrysümmers
03-13-2012, 11:24 AM
OP, have you played this opponent again? Next time i would warn him before the match if he starts his bush league play again then you will be forced to stop the match. tired of seeing these annoying pushers play.

TTMR
03-15-2012, 03:09 AM
OP, have you played this opponent again? Next time i would warn him before the match if he starts his bush league play again then you will be forced to stop the match. tired of seeing these annoying pushers play.

Like I said, I never played with that clown again, nor would I be willing to. After I left him to find his own way home at the courts in the bad part of town, I doubt he is entirely anxious to see me again either. But c'est la vie. You can't teach them not to push by coddling them and pretending everything is ok. The umbilical cord has to be cut sooner or later.

arche3
03-15-2012, 03:54 AM
Like I said, I never played with that clown again, nor would I be willing to. After I left him to find his own way home at the courts in the bad part of town, I doubt he is entirely anxious to see me again either. But c'est la vie. You can't teach them not to push by coddling them and pretending everything is ok. The umbilical cord has to be cut sooner or later.

I still don't know if your serious.....

your like Seinfeld. lol. good show.

Wildman
03-15-2012, 11:57 AM
Well, I am a 3.0. I serve a hard flat serve, have a dangerous slice serve, and a decent kick serve. Can't place them all exactly where I want to, but I'm working on it.
My best shot is the forehand, both flat and with topspin. Lots of power, and relatively accurate given my level.
I can run down and retrieve pretty much every ball.
My backhand, however, is my most consistent weakness.
I'm a good 3.0.
Now, today I lost to a guy who's the very definition of a pusher. I lost in front of all my friends, who were watching because the other guy had said I couldn't take a game of him. We played two sets, and I lost 6-0 in both. He's a 4.0, small and slightly overweight.
The other guy beat me with a well placed weak serve, all returns through the middle and in no mans land, and hit me with topspin moonshots close to the baseline.
The guy uses slice ALL THE TIME, drop shots ALL THE TIME, and hit about 2-3 winners in the two sets. Is he a clown? No, I'm the clown. I let him beat me. I'm rethinking my game, taking some power off and working in accuracy, and taking advantage of short balls.

interjim
03-15-2012, 12:17 PM
I love how this thread has sucked in exaclty the kind of ppl the OP was after, the truly horrible players who have taken the game up later in life, learned it from the internet and are now self appointed gurus.

there is a guy in another thread who spends a lot of time defending a particular coaching methodology and banging on about his 'modern game'. Well, he posted a video, and it is just hideous, an horrendous caricature of 'modern tennis', all moonball FH from open stance.

folks like this make easy marks for the likes of TTMR.

all self righteous indignation and 'learn to play properly' huffing and puffing.

I am shocked that a couple of the less mordidly stupid posters on TT have also fallen for it, though...

Er, in my defense, I posted the first reply to the OP, at which point it was possible to think he was serious. Really, I swear. Now, however, I find myself following OP's posts with something bordering on glee. Comic awesomeness.

Wildman
03-16-2012, 05:45 AM
Er, in my defense, I posted the first reply to the OP, at which point it was possible to think he was serious. Really, I swear. Now, however, I find myself following OP's posts with something bordering on glee. Comic awesomeness.

Too bad these threads are meant for self amusement. And I thought I could find some advice to beat the pusher. Well, at least I'm learning new adjectives: "mordidly stupid". Try figuring that one one out...

volleygirl
03-16-2012, 06:06 AM
Like I said, I never played with that clown again, nor would I be willing to. After I left him to find his own way home at the courts in the bad part of town, I doubt he is entirely anxious to see me again either. But c'est la vie. You can't teach them not to push by coddling them and pretending everything is ok. The umbilical cord has to be cut sooner or later.


The funny thing in all this is that you consider that guy a clown. Amazing

thug the bunny
03-16-2012, 06:15 AM
http://img.geocaching.com/cache/d483717e-ea2b-479b-8867-5e54acb2b2e2.jpg

Please do not feed the troll!

Wildman
03-16-2012, 06:21 AM
The funny thing in all this is that you consider that guy a clown. Amazing

It seems we fell prey to a joke. Don't waste your time.:twisted:

TimothyO
03-16-2012, 07:05 AM
Like I said, I never played with that clown again, nor would I be willing to.

Corrected text: I was too humiliated being beaten so handily by a superior player. I'm giving up tennis vs humans since I can't figure out how to generate my own pace with consistency and accuracy against players who won't hit to me. Instead, I've decided to play only against ball machines on concrete surfaces.

;)

I think's more reflective of reality.

TTMR
03-19-2012, 02:12 PM
The funny thing in all this is that you consider that guy a clown. Amazing

If the giant red nose fits, then he's a clown.

This guy isn't the tactical genius you all seem to think. Although it was a friendly match, I always keep a stopwatch at every match I play to ensure time isn't wasted between points and at changeovers. A couple of instances I timed him at 22 seconds. The first time I was feeling charitable and let him off with a warning. The second time I penalized him the point (it was break point for me). Unbelievably, the cheater rolled his eyes at me in disgust.

Pushing and cheating go hand in hand. Why would I stoop to playing this sh*tbird again? I play tennis the right way, and I'm entitled to play someone else who does too. Is he a clown? That's what I'd call him when I'm in a good mood. I've met people more decent than him in jail.

forthegame
03-19-2012, 03:26 PM
If the giant red nose fits, then he's a clown.

This guy isn't the tactical genius you all seem to think. Although it was a friendly match, I always keep a stopwatch at every match I play to ensure time isn't wasted between points and at changeovers. A couple of instances I timed him at 22 seconds. The first time I was feeling charitable and let him off with a warning. The second time I penalized him the point (it was break point for me). Unbelievably, the cheater rolled his eyes at me in disgust.

Pushing and cheating go hand in hand. Why would I stoop to playing this sh*tbird again? I play tennis the right way, and I'm entitled to play someone else who does too. Is he a clown? That's what I'd call him when I'm in a good mood. I've met people more decent than him in jail.

You were in jail?

Say Chi Sin Lo
03-19-2012, 03:28 PM
If the giant red nose fits, then he's a clown.

This guy isn't the tactical genius you all seem to think. Although it was a friendly match, I always keep a stopwatch at every match I play to ensure time isn't wasted between points and at changeovers. A couple of instances I timed him at 22 seconds. The first time I was feeling charitable and let him off with a warning. The second time I penalized him the point (it was break point for me). Unbelievably, the cheater rolled his eyes at me in disgust.

Pushing and cheating go hand in hand. Why would I stoop to playing this sh*tbird again? I play tennis the right way, and I'm entitled to play someone else who does too. Is he a clown? That's what I'd call him when I'm in a good mood. I've met people more decent than him in jail.

It's good that you enforce the rules, there really is nothing more frustrating than someone who deliberately wastes time on the court. But let me get this straight:

- You were handed free points because he went over the time limit (rightfully so).
- Matter of fact you saved break point(s) without having to do anything.
- Your opponent didn't hit much winners (pusher mentality).
- Your opponent didn't blast you off the court (pusher mentality).
- Your opponent wasn't a tactical genius.

And you were still losing, to the point where you gave up. Basically what you're saying is, if you hit against the wall, the wall would win.

You don't play tennis the right way. Of course, everyone plays to win, but as a competitor (which you are not), one should learn something from each loss. Certainly not complain like a little b***h with your superiority complex. You made a conscious decision to play, whether you're going into the match with an injury, off-day, brutal environmental conditions, etc. You didn't have to play, so if you lose then you lose. When you decide to play a match, then you have every reason to win.

A boxer doesn't throw in the towel because the opponent fights with a different style. A boxer either win, lose, or withdraw because his/her body is no longer able to compete. Either way, the competitor finishes it.

You don't see Djokovic complaining about John Isner's barrage of 140mph serves in his Indian Wells semifinal lost.

Can't think of a name
03-19-2012, 03:53 PM
http://www.comicadze.com/thumbnails/large_i_love_this_thread_43767.jpeg

Timbo's hopeless slice
03-19-2012, 06:54 PM
I just can't believe any of you are still taking this seriously. If I was TTMR, I would never be able to post because every time I came to this thread I would fall off my chair, crying with laughter and never be able to rise...

Tim especially. Come on, man, you are smarter than this, even if I don't agree with you all the time...

jht32
03-20-2012, 06:05 AM
... Basically what you're saying is, if you hit against the wall, the wall would win.

...You don't see Djokovic complaining about John Isner's barrage of 140mph serves in his Indian Wells semifinal lost.

TTMR would be right, the wall always wins, it never misses.

TTMR wouldn't be complaining about 140mph serves, its the pusher serves that deserves to be abolished.

TTMR - pushers are a patient bunch, they will wear you out on the tennis court and on the message boards with their rebuttals. I have a feeling that this is going to be a long drawn-out match/thread :)

OTMPut
03-20-2012, 06:24 AM
I used to have issues with a pusher. A guy with atrocious looking shots. He foot faults on every serve and he asks for a replay if he is not sure a ball was in/out. I let it go as he is a bit older.

I discovered that he has issues with high bouncing balls to his forehand (he uses a continental grip and tries to "roll" his wrists to try and look modern!). Now he gets to hit a lot of forehands whenever he plays me and i harvest a lot of UEs off that wing. So bad it is now, he lets his b/h side open to cover his f/h and try to get more balls to his b/h junk slice. But, i love it when i drop shot him after a crosscourt f/h.

Work on tactics. You can always find something.

interjim
03-20-2012, 07:00 AM
A beating with a bag of sweet valencia oranges. That's what pushers deserve.

Sean-Topspin
04-04-2012, 07:28 PM
Let's not exaggerate here. My feet aren't glued to the baseline. On a short ball, I blast the ball to where he is not standing, or otherwise work the angle. Whenever he delivers his puff-ball lobs--unless they are perfectly placed--I smash them with impunity.

My issue may not be with you having issues with pushers, but your definition of a 'pusher' seems different than what I've heard.

You describe a pusher as someone hitting chip shots and slicing the ball, but where on the court were those shots placed? To me, a pusher rarely goes for a winner, but the contradiction with the shot choices mentioned is that I'm a heavy baseline hitter myself, but I also serve and volley and do a tricky chip shot when you think I'm about to drift it in. Kinda like federer did against Murray recently. For me a pusher doesn't go for winners.. I've got no problem with a lack of power, so long as those shots are well placed.

For my understanding, I thought a pusher simply lacked the skill to go for winners. But I'm not about to complain if someone catches me unawares chipping the ball just over the net. This is coming from someone of a similar ilk to you. I love being on the baseline, maybe taking a step in and crushing the ball at an angle, just touch the end line. Untouchable.. My definition of a pusher is someone who will take pace off the ball and hit it right at you, centre of the court, more or less and wait for you to go for the line shot.

TTMR
05-21-2012, 10:45 AM
It's good that you enforce the rules, there really is nothing more frustrating than someone who deliberately wastes time on the court.

Exactly. It doesn't matter that he had to run after a ball I launched over his back fence in frustration. 20 seconds is the rule. He knew it, I know it, deal with it. When something like that happens, you have three options: Hustle like a man, concede the point like a man, or roll your eyes like a 12 year old being told he has detention. My opponent chose the latter. Cheaters, crybabies and pushers; they are all one and the same.

Wuppy
05-21-2012, 10:53 AM
Nice troll, TTMR, very nice.

r2473
05-21-2012, 01:26 PM
That's all good and fine, but what if no one won?

Babolatbarry
05-21-2012, 02:02 PM
I was in the same situation actually.
I was up 5-1 in an 8 game pro set, so the guy starts lobbing and pushing and he made it 5-5 and then told me "Im makin you play old man's game"
(He was 40ish and im 15, local tourney for charity)
So I was just like screw itand started hitting the ball harder and adding more spin and slicing my backhand, clipped him 8-6.

vil
05-21-2012, 03:25 PM
Initially I found this thread quite amusing but now it's like a many times repeated joke. Boring...... This TTMR guy just keeps fishing by releasing more and more bait. It's surprising that this thread is quite long, considering the fact you don't learn anything wise from it.
Yeah, wearing the stop watch in your pocket, that's a good one:confused:

1HBH Rocks
05-21-2012, 06:31 PM
Exactly. It doesn't matter that he had to run after a ball I launched over his back fence in frustration. 20 seconds is the rule. He knew it, I know it, deal with it. When something like that happens, you have three options: Hustle like a man, concede the point like a man, or roll your eyes like a 12 year old being told he has detention. My opponent chose the latter. Cheaters, crybabies and pushers; they are all one and the same.

In fact, accordingly to Kohlberg whose theory is more than well founded, so long as we define as mature by analogy with a fruit ready to be harvested, what would be mature is to transcend the convention and apply the principle itself. The principle is to avoid wasting time... when he runs after a ball YOU have lunched over the fence, he's not wasting time while he runs after it: he is tiring himself not to making you wait for too long. The spirit behind the law suggests that it would be pretty unsportsmanlike to enforce the rule at this point.

However, as you may not understand that laws which doesn't fulfill their purpose when applied are rendered void by their own practice, you will probably answer back.

And, seriously, you're not really being successful in defending yourself when you react as you do in many of these posts... we notice the depth of an issue to the distance that exists in between the trigger event and the causal event. Your insistence in these posts betray something and it's certainly not confidence, nor emotional maturity. You are entitled to your opinion as well as to your right to avoid playing friendly matches with certain people... that's your right. But if your contentions are indeed pretty low, they have the usefulness of showing to us who you are.

Beware of what you write: there is some of yourself in every word of it. Of course, you could just be a troll, but when facing stupidity, we often loose sight of what's a parody and what's reality.

Timbo's hopeless slice
05-21-2012, 07:45 PM
no, this is a parody, no doubt about it...

Timbo's hopeless slice
05-24-2012, 03:25 PM
Well, yes, but it's fun to point and laugh from a distance...

(not from America, you see...)