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BirdWalkR
01-30-2012, 09:14 AM
Higher ball toss and more of a vertical tossing arm maybe?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qzC9jyu4-M

pingu
01-30-2012, 09:45 AM
From what I see, I would recommend a higher toss and you need to use the wrist to snap the ball instead of sliding it.

Good luck!

LeeD
01-30-2012, 10:28 AM
Major improvement! Kudos.
From trophy onward, you're looking set up for a real solid serve.
Now RELAX on the prep to trophy, especially relax your body so you can use it later to load up and spring into your forward motion. You're using too much energy going from prep to trophy, so you never wind the spring.
Your swing from trophy forward is now good.
So RELAX going there.

rufusbgood
01-30-2012, 10:53 AM
Higher ball toss and more of a vertical tossing arm maybe?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qzC9jyu4-M

If you just concentrate on getting your tossing arm fully vertical I think you will find that the toss takes care of itself.

tennis_pr0
01-30-2012, 11:05 AM
A agree with the previous post. Other than that I don't see any faults in your serve.

tennis_pr0
01-30-2012, 11:06 AM
You have a quick motion, like Dolgopolov, which in my opinion is an advantage because returners will have a hard time reading your ball toss and where you are going with the serve.

pvaudio
01-30-2012, 11:32 AM
^^^ I disagree. I think his toss is very error prone. He relies on it moving to his left after tossing for it to be in the strike zone. The same effectiveness can be had if the ball is tossed into the strike zone directly. This way, you won't have as many issues in windy or bright conditions. Even more importantly, if you begin to get tight, your toss can start wandering anyway. A slight leftwards movement is obviously necessary, but as it is right now, the OP is tossing so that the ball falls to the left. This can also cause his weight to shift to the left, and as seen in the video, make it incredibly hard to hit a proper flat serve unless you change the mechanics of the stroke itself.

LeeD
01-30-2012, 12:39 PM
Toss is fine for a low toss technique.
Gotta wander towards your head, as arm is well out to the side.
The closer to the head, the more topspin, like needed for safe and second serves.
Agassi's toss always wandered left. Goran's right.
Birdwalker's just getting the arm motion down, so fine tuning is needed, not any basic changes.
High tosses need precision. Low tosses can be off and still work.

BirdWalkR
01-31-2012, 03:34 PM
Major improvement! Kudos.
From trophy onward, you're looking set up for a real solid serve.
Now RELAX on the prep to trophy, especially relax your body so you can use it later to load up and spring into your forward motion. You're using too much energy going from prep to trophy, so you never wind the spring.
Your swing from trophy forward is now good.
So RELAX going there.

Thanks! Worked pretty hard on re-doing the motion so glad its progressing! So pretty much I'm looking too stiff and losing a lot of power because of it?

LeeD
01-31-2012, 03:44 PM
The stiffness from prep to trophy takes away your ability to wind up, relaxed and loose, so you can propell the racket upwards and forwards.
You know you have a live arm. Now why doesn't your serve go big with huge pop, big hissing spin, and a really high bounce? Because the tightness in your torso prevents it from adding to your arm speed. You're using just part of the kinetic chain, limiting it's full usage by being tense at the windup.
Maybe try thinking.....LOOSE AS A GOOSE, only the 3 fingers feeling the buttcap and handle, everything else relaxed as can be while winding the spring.

pvaudio
01-31-2012, 04:38 PM
Toss is fine for a low toss technique.
Gotta wander towards your head, as arm is well out to the side.
The closer to the head, the more topspin, like needed for safe and second serves.
Agassi's toss always wandered left. Goran's right.
Birdwalker's just getting the arm motion down, so fine tuning is needed, not any basic changes.
High tosses need precision. Low tosses can be off and still work.
Indeed, I did say that the ball does need to wander left to be able to hit it. What I'm referring to is the severity of the wandering. I suspect this is simply because his hand releases the ball while facing his chest. In a match, if you get even remotely tight, that's going to get more and more severe. Note all great servers' tossing hand releases the ball not to the left, but either palm skyward (see Roddick, Isner, Karlovic), palm facing away (see Sampras, Federer) or a hybrid between the two (see Goran, Djokovic).

LeeD
01-31-2012, 04:46 PM
Are you jumping the gun here on technicalities?
OP is just starting to figure out his forward swing motion. Just 2 months ago, his motion was completely different, all askewed and disjointed. Now, at least his trophy to contact is cleaned up.
Progress. You can't build him into AndyRoddick by next week. One step at a time.
His palm faces the sky at release. You are looking at his followthru after he releases his toss.
JonnyS/V also has that wandering toss, and you didn't pick him apart for it.
Possibly what you missed was that his tose angle severity is dependent on which serve he's planning to hit.

pvaudio
01-31-2012, 05:21 PM
No, take it easy. You're adding in hyperbole to for some reason make me out to be the Stalinist serve commentator. I didn't miss anything in the video, I watched it through a few times and paused it as well. The issue I'm commenting on is that even with low toss servers, the ball should still be released at the height of the toss and not while coiling.

http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/7941/birdmand.jpg

Hopefully this is an illustration of my point. He's started to coil, his palm is facing his face, and the ball has already left his hand. The only direction for that ball to go is towards his face: to the left. This has nothing to do with what serve type or whatever else you're blaming me of not catching. If he's going to begin to coil while tossing the ball, a different hand orientation should be used so that he does not need to fall left unnecessarily. Does this make sense?

LeeD
01-31-2012, 05:29 PM
When I switched from a 12oz racket to a 10 oz'er, I needed the low toss to complement my much quicker swing. The worst adaption I had was to remember to toss the ball OVER MY HEAD, instead of out to my left side (me lefty). For some reason, a ball toss out to your hitting side just doesn't seem comfortable to hit. A toss directly over my head, which I never did with the old high toss, seems to direct my body into the ball more and might add control thru some amount of topspin. Wierd, but true for me.
The one thing I had to remember at prep was to straighten my wrist so the palm faces towards me, and not at the sky.
Thru 37 years of high tossing, I'd adopted a toss that had my palm facing directly above me, a habit I had to break with my low toss and quicker motion.
I still have major problems when I go to my old 12 oz racket, try to serve hard, and wrist angle, racket weight, SW weight, toss location, toss height, all seem askewered.