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Hitman99
02-04-2012, 07:47 AM
Does TW use/offee the JET technique when stringing the rackets they sell on-line?

Irvin
02-04-2012, 08:47 AM
You should call them and ask but I doubt it.

Xpherex
02-04-2012, 09:21 AM
As a player I can say that when TW strung my racket it played much better and the sides of mains didn't move like when my local stringer is doing. (well he can't even understand t1, 2, h4 etc... he starts and ties where he can, so it anyway a bad idea to compare). Also the strings lasted longer, I usually brake them very fast.
And as I self stringer in near future I would like to know what is JET technique?

Irvin
02-04-2012, 09:37 AM
Google is your friend. I would post the link but it would be blocked. Try searching for JayCee method of tennis string installation defined.

EDIT: TW uses Prince NEOS machine for stringing so you will soon find out why I thought TW would not offer this service if you read the article. Also they don't sell the brand of strings used by the JET method which is the key point in achieving optimal results. If you believe what they tell you.

mad dog1
02-04-2012, 10:14 AM
Google is your friend. I would post the link but it would be blocked. Try searching for JayCee method of tennis string installation defined.

EDIT: TW uses Prince NEOS machine for stringing so you will soon find out why I thought TW would not offer this service if you read the article. Also they don't sell the brand of strings used by the JET method which is the key point in achieving optimal results. If you believe what they tell you.

sure they do...

http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/catpage-LTEC.html

Irvin
02-04-2012, 10:38 AM
^^Oops! my bad

fortun8son
02-04-2012, 08:55 PM
Yeah, the Neos is not the machine of choice for small, accurate increments of tension! ROFL

KerryR
02-05-2012, 08:46 AM
Yeah, the Neos is not the machine of choice for small, accurate increments of tension! ROFL

Why is that?

KerryR
02-05-2012, 09:01 AM
Google is your friend. I would post the link but it would be blocked. Try searching for JayCee method of tennis string installation defined.

EDIT: TW uses Prince NEOS machine for stringing so you will soon find out why I thought TW would not offer this service if you read the article. Also they don't sell the brand of strings used by the JET method which is the key point in achieving optimal results. If you believe what they tell you.

I'm fairly familiar with JayCee, and to the greatest extent possible without paying G&G Tennis for a lesson/dealership, JET. I use it on my Ektelon H, both with and without Stringway double and tripple clamps. I haven't encountered any issues with the method.

I might be missing something, though.

Why do you say the use of a Neos would prohibit the use of the JET, assuming modified pulling technique with the lockout, as outlined on Guts and Glory's blog?

TennezSport
02-05-2012, 11:42 AM
Why do you say the use of a Neos would prohibit the use of the JET, assuming modified pulling technique with the lockout, as outlined on Guts and Glory's blog?

At the GSS symposium last Oct JayCee actually strung 4 racquets using the JET method on different machine types (a lockout, drop weight, LCP and Stringway). With slightly different tweeks to the technique for the LO machine he got the exact same results in each frame. So, the technique works in all machines as long as you know what you are doing.

Cheers, TennezSport :cool:

fortun8son
02-05-2012, 07:06 PM
I guess it depends on the age and condition of the machine.
The Neos I use at work is quite erratic. Turn the knob up for 1lb, it jumps 5. Turn down for 2lbs, doesnt change at all. Granted it's pretty old and tired.
Tennis Machines overhauled the tension head about a year ago. Worked well for a few weeks then the same old problem.

rufusbgood
02-05-2012, 09:08 PM
The Neos I use at work is quite erratic. Turn the knob up for 1lb, it jumps 5. Turn down for 2lbs, doesnt change at all.

My apologies to the OP for contributing to a derail here but this piqued my interest. Just how did you become aware of this problem? Are you monitoring your output with a SBS meter at work or did you encounter this while trying to calibrate? If the latter, what are you using for a calibrator?

fortun8son
02-06-2012, 12:22 AM
While calibrating using a standard Gamma spring calibrator.
I think the lockout lever has been damaged, also the gripper mechanism lifts and twists under tension.
The powers that be are too cheap to replace it. It was like pulling teeth to get it sent out the first time.

Irvin
02-06-2012, 02:07 AM
I'm fairly familiar with JayCee, and to the greatest extent possible without paying G&G Tennis for a lesson/dealership, JET. I use it on my Ektelon H, both with and without Stringway double and tripple clamps. I haven't encountered any issues with the method.

I might be missing something, though.

Why do you say the use of a Neos would prohibit the use of the JET, assuming modified pulling technique with the lockout, as outlined on Guts and Glory's blog?

I didn't say using a lockout machine would prohibit the use of the JET or JayCee method. But those methods were designed to be used on a constant pull machine. Using a LO as a CP will more than likely double your time. Using those methods of stringing will also increase time with a CP. TW strings a lot of rackets and doubling the time it takes to string racket will incur more cost for TW.

KerryR
02-06-2012, 06:15 AM
Oh. Ok. That makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.

rufusbgood
02-06-2012, 06:44 AM
While calibrating using a standard Gamma spring calibrator.
I think the lockout lever has been damaged, also the gripper mechanism lifts and twists under tension.
The powers that be are too cheap to replace it. It was like pulling teeth to get it sent out the first time.

It's also possible the spring calibrator is the problem. My first one also came from Gamma (Tenex back then) and the internal locking nuts broke free from each other causing me to get a whole variety of readings. Easy way to tell if this has happened with yours is to hold the calibrator housing and turn the calibrator shaft. If the shaft doesn't hold position, i.e if it is screwing in and out depending on the direction you turn it, it has lost its place and is no longer reliable. Additionally, using anything other than Kevlar for calibrator leads can throw off your readings.

brittboy23
02-06-2012, 03:38 PM
At the GSS symposium last Oct JayCee actually strung 4 racquets using the JET method on different machine types (a lockout, drop weight, LCP and Stringway). With slightly different tweeks to the technique for the LO machine he got the exact same results in each frame. So, the technique works in all machines as long as you know what you are doing.

Cheers, TennezSport :cool:

I would just like to confirm that it is possible to obtain the exact same results utilizing a Prince Neos. It was my machine that was used at the GSS Symposium. I would like to think stringing is not about how long it takes you but it should be about providing precise constant results for our clients.
Quality service should be the aim.

rufusbgood
02-06-2012, 06:56 PM
I would just like to confirm that it is possible to obtain the exact same results utilizing a Prince Neos. It was my machine that was used at the GSS Symposium. I would like to think stringing is not about how long it takes you but it should be about providing precise constant results for our clients.
Quality service should be the aim.

Quality service should be the aim but the OP is questioning whether TW is offering the JET technique. I would assume that if TW is now distributing L-Tec strings they have been made aware of JET. While they are offering the strings on the site though, L-Tec doesn't appear to have been added to the drop down list of string choices when you purchase a racquet. TW does offer the option to select strings that aren't on the list though so you probably can buy a racquet and have it strung with L-Tec strings. My guess is that in a high volume operation like TW where the stringers are most likely paid on a per racquet basis that they only work at one speed (fast).

equinox
02-07-2012, 05:07 AM
How much extra do JET certified stringers charge? 50%?

Irvin
02-07-2012, 05:45 AM
Guts and Glory $20 for labor

KerryR
02-07-2012, 06:13 AM
One of the things that separates JET/L-Tec certification from other stringing methods, and even JayCee for that matter, is the idea that the stringer and player should have a relationship where the stringer observes the player on the court, communicates with the player, and helps the player arrive at the best string and tension solution, and, in some cases helps correct the players targeting. This is almost more like a coach than the traditional "what tension and what string, your racket will be ready in an hour (or tomorrow)" paradigm. This is, in part part, why there are so many L-Tec string options, and why L-tec certification from Guts and Glory is so expensive; you're learning not only how to string correctly, but how to work with players to get them what they really want/need. At least, that's the idea.

Lsmkenpo
02-07-2012, 04:08 PM
I highly doubt it. I wager few if any of their stringers at TW have the knowledge or skill to correctly string a racquet using any of JayCee's methods. There is a great difference between an average racquet stringer and a true craftsman of the trade.

TW employs racquet stringers not craftsman, they are looking to churn out string jobs as fast as possible, I have had numerous racquets brought to me to restring that had mis-weaves in the crosses, racquets bought and strung from TW.

Tennis warehouse has great customer service and products, but their racquet stringing service leaves something to be desired.

They have a video up of a couple of their stringers(young kids) racing to see who can string the fastest. Show me someone that brags about how fast they can string and I will show you someone who is just a racquet stringer.

equinox
02-07-2012, 10:19 PM
Can we get a reply from TW about above poster comments?

I haven't had major problem with tw stringing service.

Only minor issue with a string pulled through grommet which i tubed and a free replacement sent on next order. Good customer service.

I will say that tw should by now have upgraded from all the older neos machines, my local sports store made the $$$ move to babolats in early-mid 00's.

I'm very skeptical about time cost benefits of GG Jet technique. Add in fact they pulled the jaycee pdf from the web and now charge a crazy amount for "training".

Makes it look more like a gimmick to sell LTEC strings and customer shoe fit system.

90% of players have no idea about stringing or properties/benefits of particular strings.

They're in a dropoff/pickup rush and don't have time to listen to 5+ minutes speeches.

Other 10% will either be stringing for themselves/family or hand over a reel/tension and half dozen racquets.

I believe an oncourt coach could provide better advice about best string "fit" than LTEC "certified" stringer.

No customer will pay cent extra for GG "LTEC" method.

I respect john, but all his talk about elevating the stringer to position of trust and prestige is a con.

RacquetDoctor
02-08-2012, 12:52 AM
+1
..have been stringing for 30+ years. Strung professionally and now for clientele who I consider friends. There is always a new gimmick...

Will see if it stands the test of time. Proportional stringing comes to mind...has benefits for some, but less than 1% are done that way....

Irvin
02-08-2012, 01:31 AM
... They have a video up of a couple of their stringers(young kids) racing to see who can string the fastest. Show me someone that brags about how fast they can string and I will show you someone who is just a racquet stringer.

The Wilson stringing team at the Australian Open. But they were not really bragging it was the TV moderators that was doing that. I am sure they are confident enough with their stringing knowledge and skills that they would brag. If I could string a racket in under 7 minutes I would be bragging too. I doubt there are more than a handful of people in the world could do that.

Stringing a tennis racket does not require much knowledge and skill. Seems like someone is asking for the pattern for a racket all the time. It they had the knowledge to string the racket they would never have to ask. Stringing a tennis racket in less 7 minutes requires a great deal of knowledge and skill.

Xpherex
02-08-2012, 03:45 AM
I highly doubt it. I wager few if any of their stringers at TW have the knowledge or skill to correctly string a racquet using any of JayCee's methods. There is a great difference between an average racquet stringer and a true craftsman of the trade.

TW employs racquet stringers not craftsman, they are looking to churn out string jobs as fast as possible, I have had numerous racquets brought to me to restring that had mis-weaves in the crosses, racquets bought and strung from TW.

Tennis warehouse has great customer service and products, but their racquet stringing service leaves something to be desired.

They have a video up of a couple of their stringers(young kids) racing to see who can string the fastest. Show me someone that brags about how fast they can string and I will show you someone who is just a racquet stringer.
I've ordered only 2 rackets, and they felt very good. I'm not a stringer just waiting for an order, but there was no missed weaves for me. It was the best stringing quality I've experienced. However I can understand that I'm talking about 2 rackets only, and int. shipping, maybe they have better quality control for int. due to return (shipping) problems. However, I hope everyone gets the best from TW stringing service as It doesn't matter where the customer lives.

KerryR
02-08-2012, 06:13 AM
Add in fact they pulled the jaycee pdf from the web and now charge a crazy amount for "training".

The complete JayCee method is still available for free, courtesy of G&G Tennis.

Keep in mind, the stringing is only part of the equation. Much, if not most, of the training is aimed at helping the stringer know how to help their player.

Lsmkenpo
02-08-2012, 12:38 PM
The Wilson stringing team at the Australian Open. But they were not really bragging it was the TV moderators that was doing that. I am sure they are confident enough with their stringing knowledge and skills that they would brag. If I could string a racket in under 7 minutes I would be bragging too. I doubt there are more than a handful of people in the world could do that.

Stringing a tennis racket does not require much knowledge and skill. Seems like someone is asking for the pattern for a racket all the time. It they had the knowledge to string the racket they would never have to ask. Stringing a tennis racket in less 7 minutes requires a great deal of knowledge and skill.

There are plenty of stringers that are fast but oblivious to the little details that make the difference between a quality job and a simple restring.

I too thought I was good at one time just because I could weave fast, a stringer can become fast quickly, but it takes skill, experience and know how to learn how to string a racquet and avoid little errors that add up in the end.

I can teach someone how to string the Jaycee method in an hour, but if they still have flaws in their basic technique, it defeats the purpose of the method in the first place. The method is designed to eliminate tension loss in the stringing process, so a stringer has to be pretty good with his technique to not make errors that defeat the purpose of the process in the first place.

mad dog1
02-08-2012, 12:57 PM
The Wilson stringing team at the Australian Open. But they were not really bragging it was the TV moderators that was doing that. I am sure they are confident enough with their stringing knowledge and skills that they would brag. If I could string a racket in under 7 minutes I would be bragging too. I doubt there are more than a handful of people in the world could do that.

Stringing a tennis racket does not require much knowledge and skill. Seems like someone is asking for the pattern for a racket all the time. It they had the knowledge to string the racket they would never have to ask. Stringing a tennis racket in less 7 minutes requires a great deal of knowledge and skill.

There are plenty of stringers that are fast but oblivious to the little details that make the difference between a quality job and a simple restring.

I too thought I was good at one time just because I could weave fast, a stringer can become fast quickly, but it takes skill, experience and know how to learn how to string a racquet and avoid little errors that add up in the end.

I can teach someone how to string the Jaycee method in an hour, but if they still have flaws in their basic technique, it defeats the purpose of the method in the first place. The method is designed to eliminate tension loss in the stringing process, so a stringer has to be pretty good with his technique to not make errors that defeat the purpose of the process in the first place.

lsmkenpo, great post.

irvin, you are right that stringing a racquet does not require much knowledge or skill assuming you don't care about the end result. you can train a kid to do this. however, i agree w/ lsmkenpo that stringing a racquet with the goal to minimize tension loss is an art and a skill that is not easy to master. it's not even something that can be mastered with more repetition and practice. there needs to be a true understanding of what john elliot is trying to accomplish with his JET method before you can focus on the correct things to improve upon. if you don't know what will help you minimize tension, you'll be practicing the same techniques that allow you to lose tension in the first place so you get very proficient at stringing w/ tension loss. it's similar to strokes. if your forehand technique is flawed, you can practice all you want, but you'll just be getting better at hitting the forehand wrong.

spacediver
02-08-2012, 01:49 PM
I've been using the JET method stringing my kblade tour using a klippermate for the last few months.

At least I thought I was until I read the Guts and Glory page. Now I'm confused - the way I was doing it was similar to the guts and glory page, but I never skipped a hole and then go back to it and double pull. That bit is new to me.

I would just increase and decrease the tensions on the mains and crosses, as instructed, and I'd press down on the mains individually before doing the crosses.

Any advice here? Will skipping the holes in the guts and glory guide work on any racquet/grommet set up?

Irvin
02-08-2012, 02:29 PM
...Will skipping the holes in the guts and glory guide work on any racquet/grommet set up?

Skipping the 7th main may work. By skipping the 7th main on a 16 main racket they are getting the 7th main (last main) closer to the tie off hole which they want to be 6h if your mains end at the head. Take this racket for instance:
http://img.tennis-warehouse.com/new_big/XO3RT-6.JPG
I would not tie off in that O Port, so your only alternative is to tie off on the 8th main.

KerryR
02-08-2012, 02:34 PM
There are 2 reasons for the hole skips in JET: 1) put the tieoff closer to the last string exit, to reduce the amount of un-tensioned string between the knot and last clamp 2) to make good use of the Stringway Tripple clamp-- on the last mains, running the string with the skips puts the tensioned string in the middle of the clamp, which reduce drawback via twist to near-zero. It's probably not strictly necessary if you don't use a Stringway Tripple clamp, but I tend to do it anyway, even if I'm using fixed clamps, for the sake of continuity.

What holes you skip and where you tie off have a lot to do with where the large stock grommets are-- some rackets don't need skips to get a close tieoff, others really need it.

equinox
02-08-2012, 03:10 PM
Is this technique approved by manufacturers?

Will they reject a warranty claim on seeing flared non regulation tie off holes?

mad dog1
02-08-2012, 03:41 PM
Is this technique approved by manufacturers?

Will they reject a warranty claim on seeing flared non regulation tie off holes?

you still tie off at the holes the manufacturer specifies.

KerryR
02-08-2012, 04:15 PM
you still tie off at the holes the manufacturer specifies.

Not always, I don't think, depends on where the specified tieoffs are relative to the last string before the knot. I believe that's the reason for enlarging the holes with the awl in the instructions, but maybe I'm missing something. Dunno if that'll void warranties or not.

mad dog1
02-08-2012, 04:50 PM
Not always, I don't think, depends on where the specified tieoffs are relative to the last string before the knot. I believe that's the reason for enlarging the holes with the awl in the instructions, but maybe I'm missing something. Dunno if that'll void warranties or not.

possibly...but i don't skip the 2nd to the last main on every stick just because it's in JayCee's instructions. i only do this if the 2nd to the last main is closer to the specified tie off and i still tie off at the manufacturer specified point. if the final main happens to be closer to the specified tie off, then that's the last string i tension. but i'm not stringing on a stringway machine w/ floating clamps which could be the reason why i haven't encountered any exceptions yet. or i just haven't strung enough different racquets yet.

JamesBond
02-14-2012, 03:04 PM
At the GSS symposium last Oct JayCee actually strung 4 racquets using the JET method on different machine types (a lockout, drop weight, LCP and Stringway). With slightly different tweeks to the technique for the LO machine he got the exact same results in each frame. So, the technique works in all machines as long as you know what you are doing.
Cheers, TennezSport :cool:

Hi Larry,
Here it is in a nut-shell, detailled instructions for the type of machine that is used by most of the stringers in tennis shops and Pro-shops.

As you rightly say "the technique works in all machines as long as you know what you are doing" - with the following instructions, it should be easier to learn how to do it.

To make the most of it, stringers can join us at the GSS Symposium, late September this year in Saddlebrook, Tampa, FL.
Cheers mate,
JB

This presentation of the JET Method for a CP electronic machine with fixed-clamps, has just been posted on the GGTennis Blog. There's more to this way of stringing than just lowering the tensions to less than 50lbs. the overall approach to stringing a racquet is fundamentally quite different from the most frequently used methods of stringing mono-filament and hybrid strings.

quote :
JET Method - your Online Guide to How and Why?


Many of our blog followers are likely aware that Tennis Warehouse has picked up L-TEC Premium strings to make available to internet customers. The purpose of today’s blog entry is to give those who are purchasing L-TEC Premium strings online the means to string them so that they can achieve the best possible results. Toward this end we are proud to present the JET Method of stringing for constant pull stringing machines using fixed clamps.

OVERVIEW :

The JET Method of stringing combined with L-TEC Premium strings provide players with an equipment advantage delivering the best possible on-court results.
There are 3 major components of the method that should be implemented in unison to achieve optimal results.
Analyzing and calculating the player’s ideal string bed tension.
Choosing the best L-TEC Premium string(s) to improve the player’s game.
Applying the exact set tensions and the JET Method of stringing to achieve the precise overall string-bed tension required by the player.There is a very precise methodology and tools that allow the stringer to string at lower tensions. The stringing technique/method preserves the elasticity of the string and ultimately allows the string bed to hold the desirable playing properties for an extended period of time.

REFERENCE TENSION :

Twenty-four hours after stringing a racquet the overall string-bed tension will measure from -4lbs to -6lbs lower than the tension that was originally set on the machine.
After 1 hour of play there will be a further loss of tension of at least -2lbs.
The JET Method of stringing progressively increases the overall string-bed tension up to 3lbs higher than the SET Tension on the machine for a 16*19 string pattern and up to 5lbs higher for a 18*20 string-pattern.
Therefore, to obtain a similar overall string-bed tension when using the JET Method, the Reference SET tension should be reduced from -7lbs to -10lbs depending on the machine and the string-pattern. The Reference SET Tension on the machine is much lower, but the feeling of stiffness in the string-bed will be quite comparable. The vastly improved comfort, power, control and spin, as well as the capacity to hold tension and maintain an initial playability for much longer than usual stringing methods, are the most evident advantages of the JET Method of stringing.

RACQUET PREPARATION :

If necessary, carefully use an awl to enlargen the grommet holes on #6 main (16 main pattern) or #7 main (18 main pattern) for tie-off. (This will be either top or bottom depending on where main strings end.)

Enlargen the grommet hole on the third cross from bottom of frame for tie-off. (Depending on pattern, this can sometimes vary. The objective is to tie-off as close to the 2nd to last cross as possible).

MAIN STRINGS :
String first four center mains on each side at reference tension.
Next 2 (on 16 mains) or 3 (on 18 mains) reduce tension by -4lbs.
On a 16 main pattern after pulling main #6 skip over to #8. Increase tension +4lbs (to reference tension) before tensioning. (#8 will be pulled at reference tension). On an 18 main pattern after pulling #7 skip over to #9. Increase tension +4lbs before tensioning.
Fill-in main #7 (on a 16 main or #8 on an 18 main) which will be the last main. Adjust tension by adding an additional 4lbs (reference tension +4lbs.)
Tie off on main #6 (16 mains) or #7 (18 mains).CROSS STRINGS :
IMPORTANT: Each cross string must be held under tension at least 20 seconds before clamping off. We recommend weaving the next cross while the previous one remains under tension.
Start first three cross strings at same tension applied to the last main string tensionned before tie-off on each side. (+4lbs over the reference tension)
After installing 3rd cross string, reduce tension -6lbs and install the rest of the cross strings (This will be reference tension –2lbs)
After stringing 3rd last cross, loop over and weave final cross. Increase tension +6lbs.
For last cross string fill in second from bottom. Tie off on 3rd cross from the bottom. Always give professional finish by straightening strings using The String Thing (http://www.***********************/home/gg2/page_1374/string_thing___string_straightening_device.html)!

Some points to keep in mind :
This presentation of the JET Method is intended for stringers using an electronic constant pull stringing machine with fixed clamps.
In the quest for stringing perfection, this is not the ideal stringing machine. However, by using the JET Method conscientiously the results can be remarkably good.
If you have the choice of pulling speeds, always select the slowest.

Wait 5 seconds before clamping off each main and a minimum of 20 seconds before clamping each of the crosses. (weave in the following cross whilst the previous cross is being tensionned, this can save a lot of time).
To become a competant stringer capable of giving top quality string-jobs when applying the JET Method requires many hours to learn and to practice this craft. It is necessary to control the results obtained string by string with a Stringmeter to understand where you are losing tension and where you need to improve your techniques to overcome these weaknesses in your way of working.
To aim for the end results on the court for your player requires strong motivation and real passion for your profession. Without your will to improve as a stringer and the capacity to put into question your habits in the way you have been stringing for years, you will not be able to acquire the efficiency in this craft necessary to obtain JET Method Certification. You may well improve your results for your players and that would be a very good start, it may even encourage you to continue to learn to become a much better stringer, even a craftsman. Now it's up to you!unquote

xiaobo
02-14-2012, 04:30 PM
1. IMPORTANT: Each cross string must be held under tension at least 20 seconds before clamping off. We recommend weaving the next cross while the previous one remains under tension.


My machine is Gamma 6900 ELS. Is there any chance to damage tensioner by pulling tension 20 seconds? I am not very comfortable to hold tension 20 seconds.

Hitman99
02-14-2012, 08:20 PM
This is a really interesting thread --- never dreamed it would morph into such an in-depth discussion.

As another poster has noted, I just assumed that if TW was offering the L-Tec strings, they would also offer the ancillary services that complement the string --- the JET stringing technique, stroke analysis, etc.

Since my original, somewhat naive post, I have learned a ton about strings, stringing technique, and the ongoing dialog and controversy about this subject. What a revelation!

drakulie
02-14-2012, 08:49 PM
I was taught this pattern two years ago.

Quite frankly, I wasn't impressed with the overall results. The strings still lost tension relative to what they were losing with other patterns, no extra playability, power, control, or spin.

Its basically another type of proportional stringing method.

Irvin
02-14-2012, 09:58 PM
...
MAIN STRINGS :
String first four center mains on each side at reference tension.
Next 2 (on 16 mains) or 3 (on 18 mains) reduce tension by -4lbs.
On a 16 main pattern after pulling main #6 skip over to #8. Increase tension +4lbs (to reference tension) before tensioning. (#8 will be pulled at reference tension). On an 18 main pattern after pulling #7 skip over to #9. Increase tension +4lbs before tensioning.
Fill-in main #7 (on a 16 main or #8 on an 18 main) which will be the last main. Adjust tension by adding an additional 4lbs (reference tension +4lbs.)
Tie off on main #6 (16 mains) or #7 (18 mains).CROSS STRINGS :
IMPORTANT: Each cross string must be held under tension at least 20 seconds before clamping off. We recommend weaving the next cross while the previous one remains under tension.
Start first three cross strings and tension at same tension as the last 2 mains (on each side). (+4lbs over the reference tension)
After installing 3rd cross string, reduce tension -6lbs and install the rest of the cross strings (This will be reference tension –2lbs)
After stringing 3rd last cross, loop over and weave final cross. Increase tension +6lbs.
For last cross string fill in second from bottom. Tie off on 3rd cross from the bottom.
...

Which is correct?

JamesBond
02-14-2012, 10:39 PM
Which is correct?

The set tension for the pull on the last main before tying-off.

JamesBond
02-14-2012, 11:13 PM
My machine is Gamma 6900 ELS. Is there any chance to damage tensioner by pulling tension 20 seconds? I am not very comfortable to hold tension 20 seconds.

This is a good question that would be better answered by Gamma Tech.

The JET Method for electronic CP machines with fixed clamps is for professional applications, as noted in the introduction "detailled instructions for the type of machine that is used by most of the stringers in tennis shops and Pro-shops".

With electronic machines conceived and manufactured for professional use there are no risks of damage to the electric motor because of extended pulling time. The motors most frequently used today are originally made for wind-screen wipers in cars, they can run intermittantly all day for years, without problems.

For electric "hobby machines" I would not be confident, already the problems with the motors are far too frequent even when used occasionally. Therefore, I would not recommend longer pulling times for these cheap machines, the end results will not be better, the lack of consistancy in applying the tension to the strings will do more harm than good.

A good quality drop weight is far more efficient and without risk, niether for the machine nor for the strings and the frames. JayCee's prefers to string with a SW automatic drop weight machine with flying clamps, simple, fast and very accurate. (I have 2 SW mechanic CP machines : ML.100 and MS.200).
JB

Irvin
02-15-2012, 01:17 AM
The set tension for the pull on the last main before tying-off.

My mistake I read it wrong.

EDIT: No I didn't you said to string the 8th main is at reference tension and the 7th main is reference +4 on both side. Then you said start the first three crosses at the same tension as the last two mains (on each side.) Well the last two mains on each side are different.

Irvin
02-15-2012, 02:49 AM
Forget JB it I got the answer. G&G changed their instructions it now says for the top three crosses, "Start first three cross strings and tension at same tension as final mains. (+4 over reference tension)"

JamesBond
02-15-2012, 02:50 AM
My mistake I read it wrong.

EDIT: No I didn't you said to string the 8th main is at reference tension and the 7th main is reference +4 on both side. Then you said start the first three crosses at the same tension as the last two mains (on each side.) Well the last two mains on each side are different.
Thanks Irvin,
If the instruction is not clear for you, it could be even worse for others, so I have changed the phrase as follows :

"Start first three cross strings at same tension applied to the last main string tensionned before tie-off on each side. (+4lbs over the reference tension)"

For me that's less confusing, is that better for you?

Thanks for your interest and help, if there is anything else which can be improved on, please let me know, I will try to help sort it out.
Cheers,
JB

Irvin
02-15-2012, 03:31 AM
Yes that is better. The stringer has to realize on a 16 main racket the 6th, 7th, and 8th mains are strung in this order 6th, 8th, and 7th.

The tension on those three strings will be Ref-4, Ref, and Ref+4. The top three crosses will also be strung the same as the 7th main (last main strung) at Ref+4. Then the crosses will drop to Ref-2 until you get to the bottom and last crosses which are tensioned at Ref+4.

That seems to be confusing enough. LOL

One thing that is really never mentioned is this should always be done with two piece stringing no matter where the mains end.

GlenK
02-15-2012, 03:33 AM
Therefore, to obtain a similar overall string-bed tension when using the JET Method, the Reference SET tension should be reduced from -7lbs to -10lbs depending on the machine and the string-pattern.

OK, so my routine reference tension is 54/52. SO, using the JET method I would use 46/44 (-8lbs) (CP). Keeping the same 2 lbs difference between x's and m's??

Is that correct??

Irvin
02-15-2012, 04:13 AM
^^I am going to bet that is a big no but let's let someone else chime in that knows more about it. Seems like everyone wants to modify the JET Method to suit their particular situation and still call it the JET Method.

The above method was for a CP with fixed clamps which is what you have.

JamesBond
02-15-2012, 04:45 AM
OK, so my routine reference tension is 54/52. SO, using the JET method I would use 46/44 (-8lbs) (CP). Keeping the same 2 lbs difference between x's and m's??

Is that correct??

Yes it is . . .
Go for it and tell us how it plays.
JB :)

GlenK
02-15-2012, 05:16 AM
^^I am going to bet that is a big no but let's let someone else chime in that knows more about it. Seems like everyone wants to modify the JET Method to suit their particular situation and still call it the JET Method.

The above method was for a CP with fixed clamps which is what you have.

That's what I thought. The suggestion is for exactly my situation with CP. That just seems like a hell of a drop. I want to try the L-Tec strings as my X's and give the JET technique a shot as well. Just not totally sure what process I want to use first. I think I'll do three things:

1) Try the L-Tec crosses stringing them exactly as I do now. Using 54/52 with slow pull on Poly.

2) Try the L-Tec crosses using the JET method at the reference tensions I use now.

3) Then try it using the -7 to -10 lbs from the usual reference tension of 54/52. In other words using a reference tension of 46/44, applying the JET technique.

Obviously with two sets that will leave an extra half set for which ever version I like best. This should be really interesting.. The only thing they don't talk about is varying tensions between x's and m's. It seems all they mention is one tension for both. We'll see what happens. Now I just have to order the strings..

GlenK
02-15-2012, 05:19 AM
Additional thought, if I don't like any of these, I'll try that last half at either 53 or 45 for both m's and x's. Depending on how the first three go, hopefully I'll have a feel for going higher or lower at ONE tension..

GlenK
02-15-2012, 05:21 AM
Yes it is . . .
Go for it and tell us how it plays.
JB :)

Thanks, at least think I figured out a game plan to take a shot at this. We'll see how it works.

mikeler
02-15-2012, 09:03 AM
I was taught this pattern two years ago.

Quite frankly, I wasn't impressed with the overall results. The strings still lost tension relative to what they were losing with other patterns, no extra playability, power, control, or spin.

Its basically another type of proportional stringing method.


I have a hard enough time remembering to change tensions between the mains and crosses, this method would melt my small brain.

spacediver
02-15-2012, 09:05 AM
Is it worth stringing using the JET technique if I'm using a multi?

drakulie
02-15-2012, 09:44 AM
Is it worth stringing using the JET technique if I'm using a multi?

Unless you want to feel special in that you are playing with a "special" pattern then it is not worth stringing using this pattern with any string type.

drakulie
02-15-2012, 09:49 AM
I have a hard enough time remembering to change tensions between the mains and crosses, this method would melt my small brain.

Lol! Yeah, it simply isn't worth the headache, and makes very little if any difference. The headache far outweighs any benefit (if there really is any, which I couldn't conclude with several different strings including one that was supposed to be special to this pattern).

mikeler
02-15-2012, 10:07 AM
Lol! Yeah, it simply isn't worth the headache, and makes very little if any difference. The headache far outweighs any benefit (if there really is any, which I couldn't conclude with several different strings including one that was supposed to be special to this pattern).


What string was supposed to be special to that pattern?

Irvin
02-15-2012, 10:30 AM
Some one (or more) does not fully understand the JET method. I know I don't understand it all.

The JET Method (as I understand it) has 3 major components that should be implemented in unison to achieve optimal results.

1 - Analyzing and calculating the player’s ideal string bed tension.
2 - Choosing the best L-TEC string(s) to improve the player’s game.
3 - Applying the exact set tensions and the JET Method of stringing to achieve the precise overall string-bed tension required by the player.

Calculate SBS

If you know the SBS you have a target for what you are shooting for. If you don't know that find it.

Choose your String

Everyone is going to say they have the best string ever. If you have a string you're happy with go with it. If you want to try the L-TEC strings by all means do.

Apply JET Method of stringing to achieve SBS

This is about the only one I am going to try to change now. I don't like playing with polys because they are too harsh but if I can drop the tension down low enough I may give it a try. I hate for my strings to move around so I would never try these lower tensions with a non poly string.

So I am going to start with a Co-poly string and see if the claims are real. First I am going to string a poly at 40# and check the SBS. Then I will let the racket sit for a day and read it again. Then play with the racket for an hour and read it one more time to record the tension drops. Then I will do the same thing with the JET Method of stringing where I change the tensions and measure drops again and compare. I will let you know what I find.

'GlenK' you said you play now with 54/52 so that is what you will be doing for the JET method. I don't think that is the right way to go. That tension you string now gives you a SBS (or DT) and tension. You should pick a reference tension like x and check to see what you get for an SBS and tension. Then you can raise or lower your reference tension to get the same SBS & Tension.

If the JET Method increases the SBS tension by 3 pounds or more (as claimed) maybe you want a reference tension of 50 maybe lower. After doing it once you should have a better idea.

I have always been in favor of changing only one variable at a time. So change the string or the stringing method but not both. If you change both and it is better, worse, or the same you don't know what changes were good, bad, or indifferent.

Irvin
02-15-2012, 10:31 AM
What string was supposed to be special to that pattern?

L-TEC Strings

drakulie
02-15-2012, 07:22 PM
What string was supposed to be special to that pattern?

When I was first emailed the pattern in March 2010 and asked to try it, I was told to try Top Spin Cyber Twirl. This was in March 2010. I was once again last year given a bunch of V-Tec string, which has extremely similar packaging as the L-tec and asked if I knew the "JET" method, and advised to string it using the method when trying out the string.

The one thing I noticed using this method was that tension loss was more evenly distributed througout the string bed, rather than in pockets which is typically the case with normal patterns. However, DT tension loss readings were normal. In other words, there still is tension loss as there are with any other strings, or any other patterns. The String, nor the pattern is any better or worse than anything else out there. The "wheel" hasn't been re-invented here.

RacquetDoctor
02-15-2012, 08:35 PM
Drak,
Thanks for the insight on the tension loss...I've strung a couple of my sticks this evening with this method, my usual string(cheap poly :) ).

DT readings were what they always are...38 for 25.5kg in a PB9...

Will play with it and take readings...Will see if there is any magic for me in the method...but a I think no...

Mark

drakulie
02-15-2012, 08:42 PM
^^mark, look forward to reading your findings.

Thanks in advance.

GlenK
02-16-2012, 02:44 AM
'GlenK' you said you play now with 54/52 so that is what you will be doing for the JET method. I don't think that is the right way to go. That tension you string now gives you a SBS (or DT) and tension. You should pick a reference tension like x and check to see what you get for an SBS and tension. Then you can raise or lower your reference tension to get the same SBS & Tension.


Irvin, I agree. I am going to do that as well. I'm just going to try at least 3 different approaches. First I want to try it like I'm stringing my set up now simply so I can check out how just the new L-tec strings work against my current set up.

Then string one using Jet at my current reference tension. Then try one with the -7 to -10 lbs reduction. I'll track the tension results and feel of each approach.

That will give me an idea of what caused the improvement if any. Was it the strings, the method, or the tension that made the bigger impact, one way or the other.

Irvin
02-16-2012, 03:13 AM
Irvin, I agree. I am going to do that as well. I'm just going to try at least 3 different approaches. First I want to try it like I'm stringing my set up now simply so I can check out how just the new L-tec strings work against my current set up.

Then string one using Jet at my current reference tension. Then try one with the -7 to -10 lbs reduction. I'll track the tension results and feel of each approach.

That will give me an idea of what caused the improvement if any. Was it the strings, the method, or the tension that made the bigger impact, one way or the other.

Good idea Glen but I think you have missed my point. Stringing at 54/52 or reducing the tension by 7 to 10 pounds is not the JET Method as I understand it. Of course there are not too many that really do understand that method and maybe I am one of them.

Here is what I would do if I were you. String your racket as you normal do now and take a reading for SBS, DT, Tension, or whatever you can. That will give you what you like or what you have become accustomed to. Those readying are your target.

Now you want to incorporate the JET Method to achieve the same initial reading. If your reference tension if 54 pounds then your center mains are strung at 54 and your center cross are strung at 52. That is what you do now. But assuming you have a 16x19 racket and assuming the JET Method increase tension by 3 pounds you want to start with a reference of 51 and string the center crosses at 49. Many doubt that the JET Method can increase tension. Well it can't but think about it for a minutes. The mains are tensioned for at least 5 seconds and the crosses for at least 20 seconds. The longer the crosses are tensioned the more they are stretched at the same tension. So some of the stress is taken out of the string. This longer tensioning also gives the cross more time to overcome the friction loss from the mains and evens out the tension across the string bed. So the final result if a stiffer string be stringing at the same tension. So effectively you are increasing tension.

You may find if you string your rackets at 54/52 using the JET Method you will end up with a stiffer racket that you do not like. Now you know why. If I were you I would drop the tension down to a point where I am sure I will end up with an SBS below my present setup like 40 pounds (or less) and then work my way up to something that feels right and plays well for me.

GlenK
02-16-2012, 03:53 AM
No not at all.. I understand your point I just don't think I've made mine clear. There are two points. One is the new L-Tec string and the other is the JET stringing method.
If I do what you're saying right of the bat I won't really be able to tell if it's the new strings making any difference, of if it's the Jet method making the difference.

Using the approach I've decided to use will allow me to compare the L-tec strings with my current set up. Just to get a feel for what difference they alone make.

Then I can start testing the JET method by approaching it different ways. I'm going to do what you're recommending, I'm just going to do it last.

Also, I have an 18x20 racquet.. Below is where the -7 to -10 lbs comes from. They do show it as an adjustment to make based on your string pattern.

The JET Method of stringing progressively increases the overall string-bed tension up to 3lbs higher than the SET Tension on the machine for a 16*19 string pattern and up to 5lbs higher for a 18*20 string-pattern.
Therefore, to obtain a similar overall string-bed tension when using the JET Method, the Reference SET tension should be reduced from -7lbs to -10lbs depending on the machine and the string-pattern.

Now I'm going out and playing some tennis..enough of this talking about it.. lol.. I've ordered my gut and L-tec stings to check this thing out....

Torres
02-16-2012, 05:21 AM
One of the things that separates JET/L-Tec certification from other stringing methods, and even JayCee for that matter, is the idea that the stringer and player should have a relationship where the stringer observes the player on the court, communicates with the player, and helps the player arrive at the best string and tension solution, and, in some cases helps correct the players targeting.

There's no way I'm having a geeky stringer tell me what's best for me. Sure they can suggest strings, suggest tensions and give me a load of racquets to try but beyond that he can go and do one.

I really would love to see a garage mechanic telling a Formula 1 driver or NASCAR or Indycar Champion what they need to drive better.

mikeler
02-16-2012, 05:26 AM
When I was first emailed the pattern in March 2010 and asked to try it, I was told to try Top Spin Cyber Twirl. This was in March 2010. I was once again last year given a bunch of V-Tec string, which has extremely similar packaging as the L-tec and asked if I knew the "JET" method, and advised to string it using the method when trying out the string.

The one thing I noticed using this method was that tension loss was more evenly distributed througout the string bed, rather than in pockets which is typically the case with normal patterns. However, DT tension loss readings were normal. In other words, there still is tension loss as there are with any other strings, or any other patterns. The String, nor the pattern is any better or worse than anything else out there. The "wheel" hasn't been re-invented here.


Interesting, thanks for the info.

Irvin
02-16-2012, 06:07 AM
...I really would love to see a garage mechanic telling a Formula 1 driver or NASCAR or Indycar Champion what they need to drive better.

Evidently you have not see "Days of Thunder." It has to be the truth I seen it on the big screen. JJ can drive but I doubt he has any idea how to build a NASCAR.

KerryR
02-16-2012, 06:29 AM
There's no way I'm having a geeky stringer tell me what's best for me. Sure they can suggest strings, suggest tensions and give me a load of racquets to try but beyond that he can go and do one.

I really would love to see a garage mechanic telling a Formula 1 driver or NASCAR or Indycar Champion what they need to drive better.


Obviously, you'd chose a stringer with whom you were comfortable.

But, if you're a Forumula 1 driver, my guess is you'd benefit from a really geeky Formula 1 engineer or two.

Be nice to the geeks-- they run the world.

equinox
02-16-2012, 06:56 AM
Be nice to the geeks-- they run the world.

and never get laid by models or half decent girls.

equinox
02-16-2012, 06:59 AM
Still no word from racquet manufacturers on warranties?

If this JET method was so superior, wouldn't the usrsa be all over covering the benefits and making it mandatory for certifications?

KerryR
02-16-2012, 07:12 AM
and never get laid by models or half decent girls.

Maybe, but they still get laid a lot-- note the number of new geeks.

Irvin
02-16-2012, 07:14 AM
Still no word from racquet manufacturers on warranties?

If this JET method was so superior, wouldn't the usrsa be all over covering the benefits and making it mandatory for certifications?

When I talked to Head I was told how I string the rackets make no difference on warranties. Their guarantee is for manufacturer / material defects. When I talked to Prince I was told never return a racket with the strings in it.

mad dog1
02-16-2012, 07:19 AM
GlenK, you may not want to try L-Tec at your regular tensions in a dense 18x20 pattern. Check out TenFanLA's thread w/ his playtest feedback. He normally strings his 16x19 100 sq in Head Microgel Prestige Pro in the low to mid 50s and tried John Youngblood's tension recommendation of 44#s. he mentioned to me that while stringing it, he had to resist the urge to increase tension because he thought 44#s would be too low. well, he stayed w/ 44#s and he's loving the string set up so much that after 2 sessions with it, he gave away his entire inventory of strings to members of this forum. when i dropped by his place to pick up the strings, he showed me the racquet w/ the L-Tec strings and if he didn't tell me what tension it was strung at, i would have said it felt like it was in the mid 50s. Doubles strung his 18x20 stick in the mid 50s with L-Tec and said the string did not play well at all. if you've spent the $$ to try the string, try it at their recommended tension first.

GlenK
02-16-2012, 10:50 AM
^^OK good point. I know I'm going to try it at approx 46/44, just wasn't sure in which order to do it. Maybe I'll just try that first. In other words just work it from the opposite direction of my initial plan..

My only question is most of these guys have tried it with just L-tec strings and not in a gut hybrid. Gut that low makes me nervous. I guess I'll get over it.. I've pretty much decided I'm just going to blow the bucks on this test and ordered two sets of gut and two sets of L-tec 4S just for this test..

mad dog1
02-16-2012, 11:30 AM
^^OK good point. I know I'm going to try it at approx 46/44, just wasn't sure in which order to do it. Maybe I'll just try that first. In other words just work it from the opposite direction of my initial plan..

My only question is most of these guys have tried it with just L-tec strings and not in a gut hybrid. Gut that low makes me nervous. I guess I'll get over it.. I've pretty much decided I'm just going to blow the bucks on this test and ordered two sets of gut and two sets of L-tec 4S just for this test..

i would recommend you check with John Youngblood for his recommendations on this set up.

jmnk
02-16-2012, 12:21 PM
could someone perform a blind test? I'm too a bit sceptical about the strings and the method (not only this one discussed here). It seems to me that it is hard to judge a given setup if you know up front what it is; it is just human nature to project his expectations, especcially with something as subjective as 'feel'.

If one was given like three identical rackets with somehow blacked out strings, and strung using 'normal' and JET method, and he, not knowing which is which, were to point to L-TEC+JET as being superior, then it would be more believable.

mad dog1
02-16-2012, 12:27 PM
^^ that's a great idea! i nominate you! please perform the blind test and report back with your findings.

Irvin
02-16-2012, 12:43 PM
I know I'm going to try it at approx 46/44, just wasn't sure in which order to do it...Gut that low makes me nervous...

You have to remember one important point. The mains are tensioned for at least 5 seconds and the crosses are tensioned for at least 20 seconds. Your SBS is going to go way up doing that and it should lessen the amount of tension loss after stringing. If you string as normal you will lose tension fast and end up at the same point.

mad dog1
02-16-2012, 12:52 PM
You have to remember one important point. The mains are tensioned for at least 5 seconds and the crosses are tensioned for at least 20 seconds. Your SBS is going to go way up doing that and it should lessen the amount of tension loss after stringing. If you string as normal you will lose tension fast and end up at the same point.

excellent point and reminder...Irvin is correct.

alidisperanza
02-16-2012, 07:44 PM
could someone perform a blind test? I'm too a bit sceptical about the strings and the method (not only this one discussed here). It seems to me that it is hard to judge a given setup if you know up front what it is; it is just human nature to project his expectations, especcially with something as subjective as 'feel'.

If one was given like three identical rackets with somehow blacked out strings, and strung using 'normal' and JET method, and he, not knowing which is which, were to point to L-TEC+JET as being superior, then it would be more believable.

Depending on how much it would cost, I'd be willing to send someone trusted 2 of my frames to be strung with unknown poly @ unknown tension with unknown method. Just label them 1 and 2.

kiteboard
02-16-2012, 08:16 PM
All you would have to do is look down at the frame and see the skipped mains and looped strings, all done in order to prevent knot tension loss. Feel and control is a dicey thing. We all have gone out and bought reels before the string lost tension and became just another throw away reel. (Kirschbaum super smash spiky, syn gut, lux, stop light, alu, etc. after the honeymoon is over, all strings lose tension too fast if you hit hard and your frame is heavy.) Even gut like vs. Formula one players use formula one tires and strings that get changed before they lose tension. Can you imagine who would play well with string jobs that were weeks/months old on tour? No one. They break strings like we break bread. That's what pro technique will do, and 4-6 hrs. /day do to strings. They can't take the beating.

It's best to find a cheap string you love and don't mind doing over quickly. Syn gut anyone? Bhbr? Bhb7 is now down to $90/reel. A hybrid I just tried that is great is ytex quadro mains/bhb7 crosses in a pt57a, also l-tec 4s crosses with quadro. Some serious controlled spin.

JamesBond
02-17-2012, 02:39 AM
Here is a quote from the GGTennis Blog, written a couple of months ago before the interest in L-TEC Premium strings and the JET Method became the subjects of interest on TTW today.
quote :
The core vision for L-TEC Premium tennis strings is very simple…”To play better tennis.” The use of L-TEC Premium strings allow players of virtually all levels to realize this vision.
The L-TEC line consists of multiple SKU’s that are designed to play in hybrid combinations with one another. Different combinations will produce different results which essentially allow the player to customize his/her stringbed to play better tennis.
The L-TEC marketing strategy is to put these strings into the hands of tennis retailers, clubs and schools where serious stringers are employed. Our vision is to train these stringers to be able to use the string combinations and method of installation to help their stringing customers produce the best possible results on the court. We ultimately want to help them to play better tennis and the JET Method trains the stringer to maximize the use of a wide variety of tools, including the specifically designed L-TEC Premium strings, to accomplish this end result.
In the tennis industry, stringers have long been the low person on the totem pole. The profession receives little respect in spite of the fact that a knowledgeable stringer has the potential to greatly assist the player with getting the best performance out of his/her equipment. Seemingly every tennis professional gets far greater respect than the stringer. Players regularly rely on coaches, players, parents and even random posts on internet message boards for stringing advice moreso than the advice of the average stringer.
Part of this scenario is the stringer’s fault. We suspect that 90% or more of the stringers out there approach a customer with a conversation that goes something like this :
"Hi. Welcome to the stringing shop"
"Are you here for a restring?"
"Okay, do you want the same thing?"
Or if a new customer :
"What type of string and tension would you like?"
Could we be any more passive? No wonder we are not respected. With an approach such as this we are perpetuating the misguided perception that we are not tennis professionals but rather just anonymous friendly faces who put strings into tennis frames. This has to stop!
With the L-TEC Premium strings and system the approach to interacting with customers is vastly different. The customer is not asked to select strings and tensions. Rather a series of questions about their game and how they hit the ball is the initial line of questioning. Based on the responses, the stringer then determines the string combination and tension that can best get the player to a new level. The player is not asked about string type or tension. Rather he/she is told there is a new product that will help them play better tennis and that the results are guaranteed.
The process of interacting with the customer to achieve an on-court result that is better than he/she has ever experienced is extremely satisfying on multiple levels. Suddenly the stringer has elevated him/herself from that of anonymous friendly face, to trusted adviser. The stringer has become more indispensable than ever in the eyes of the player.
The L-TEC strings and JET Method of stringing provides stringers who choose to work with L-TEC the opportunity to raise their professional reputation and help their customers play better tennis by using the tools we are providing.
unquote

It may help give a better overall picture of John Elliot's concept based on the ultimate objective to place the stringer in the center of a program to help players "Play Tennis Better". To achieve a more respected position as the personal advisor and trusted partener for a player, the stringer must be capable of providing a service which can unquestionably help to improve the player's game. The vast majority of players are not satisfied with the material that they are playing with (perhaps without knowing this until they play with a much better set-up), there is far too much importance given to the choice racquet and almost no value to the choice of strings, the way that they have been strung and the tensions that they were strung at.

In the overall playability of the material "racquet/strings/tensions", as of the moment that the racquet is well adapted to the players needs, 80% of the efficient playability depends on the choice of "strings/tensions" and this is precisely where the stringer has a major role to play. Unfortunately, the usual reference in stringing is the "SET tension" on the machine, with little or no consideration as to the quality of the results obtained by the player on the court.

As of the moment that a stringer is working towards the results that the player is getting on the court, the stringer needs to refer to the string-bed stiffness (SBS) in the player's racquet as the point of reference which can be changed according to the way he is playing, to obtain better and more consistant results.

The only problem with SBS values are that few stringers and even less players can grasp the relation between the DT readings when compared to the set tensions on the machine. The SBS meters are using the vibration frequencies of the string-bed to give a value that then needs to be explained to the player (or the stringer) how this actually effects the relative playabilty in the racquet. It is a good means to monitor loss of tension (and loss of control) over a period of time, it is also an efficient means to find an equivalent performance in a string-bed when comparing racquts with different frame sizes and different string-bed densities.

The String-A-lizer is a mechanical tool which uses a weight arm to measure the deviation of the strings in the center of the string-bed. This is a static measurement where the tool is calibrated to read the overall average string-bed tension in both lbs and kgs. With such a tool, monitoring the precision of a string-job becomes accessible to both stringers and players. The means of communication between the player and the stringer can be clearly established and the opportunity to work towards an end result on the court will improve the role of the stringer with his players.

The String-A-Lizer is one of the 3 essential components of the JET Method. It will become available on the market before the end of March. In the meantime, take a close look at the JET Method stringing instructions and to see if you can start to get better results for your players.
JB

drakulie
02-17-2012, 07:53 AM
^^nice write up. Unfortunately, it doesn't provide any results promised.

fortun8son
02-17-2012, 09:44 PM
It seems to me that G G has always disputed USRSA criteria for certifying stringers, saying that their standards are not high enough.
Perhaps this is a step in setting themselves up as an alternative certification standard to distinguish the Masters Of The Craft from CRT/ MRTs

drakulie
02-17-2012, 10:01 PM
It seems to me that G G has always disputed USRSA criteria for certifying stringers, saying that their standards are not high enough.

although I don't entirely dispute this, one needs to keep things in perspective. The only thing the USRSA is really placing a "stamp of approval on" is that the person being certified meets, at the time of the test, a universally accepted standard of practice in stringing a racquet competently. That is all.

Perhaps this is a step in setting themselves up as an alternative certification standard to distinguish the Masters Of The Craft from CRT/ MRTs

Well, seems to me they are trying to make themsleves out to be special, which they clearly aren't. Like I said before, the "wheel hasn't been re-invented here".

It's the same as me making up a stringing pattern like the following:

String the center mains at the reference tension, and then decrease each subsequent main by one pound until you reach the outer main. The last main should be strung at reference tension + 5 lbs for a 95 sq inch frame, + 8 for 98 inch frame, +10 for a 100sq inch, etc, etc, etc.

and then come up with some other BS for the crosses.

There, I have just invented the DrakMethod of stringing proportionally. :roll: Anyone who doesn't play better using this method doesn't know how to string correctly, because they have obviously done something incorrectly, or are simply not good enough players. :roll:

JamesBond
02-18-2012, 01:58 AM
^^nice write up. Unfortunately, it doesn't provide any results promised.

Hello Drak,
Thanks for taking the time to read about the JET Method and commenting on what you believe to be true. In fact coming from such an accomplished pro-stringer like yourself it is the perfect example of why our profession as stringers is where it is today. Nothing has changed in years !!

You have the chance to work with one of the best pros in the business, but Craig gets to do all the most interesting stuff and is a well respected technicien for personalizing racquets for the pro-players, this of course a more rewarding part of being a tennis technicien.

You have found your place as the "LTC Head Stringer" where you can churn out more than 30 racqets a day (great for tournaments) and you have strung for some of the most famous players in the world, as well as everyone else at the LTC. Every player (client) gets the same usual service which you can offer day in and day out since many years. You have managed to get to the top of your profession as a stringer and as well as that become the Guru on Talk Tennis with more than 22000 posts (over the last 8 years) contributed to your admirers. You have every reason to be pleased with what you have achieved and self satisfied enough to tell everyone what you think every day. Many will believe you and perhaps some others, like me, are less convinced by some of your opinions.

You are in a situation where you are well respected as a top quality stringer for the players wanting consistent results evrytime you string their racquets. Any variation from your usual way of stringing will cause you more problems than anything else. So why take the risk to change anything at all in what you have been doing year in and year out since the first year that you learnt how to string ?? Obviously it is not in your interest to change your role as the Head Stringer at the LTC, you are already at the top of your profession.

If by chance, one of the guys who works with you is ambitious enough to want to improve his status from stringer to stringer/advisor for his players, knowing that the Head Stringer is still young and will probably keep his present position for many years to come, there may well be an opportunity for him to find a place in CB's Team as a respected craftsman in stringing, without in any way being a threat to the place held by head stringer. That way there's a way to offer a new service to the players who would like to find solutions to help them to play tennis better . . . .

All depends on how you look at it, our points of view are obviously quite different, never the less I have lots respect for what you do, the success that you have made of yourself by being excellent at what you best.

If you had taken the necessary training to learn the JET Method and if you took the time to apply this method of stringing every day for a couple of months, then you may revise your opinion, but you and I both know that this will not happen. So let's simplify the situation, it would be preferable that you show more respect for John Elliot, because he also is at the top of his profession, which is not the same as yours.

The LTC is close enough to the Saddlebrook Ressort, come to see us for a day during the next GSS Symposium, I am certain that you could spend a few hours in the string-room with John, you will not be disappointed, he loves sharing experiences with stringers who are obsessed by their profession.
Best regards,
JB

equinox
02-18-2012, 03:23 AM
John wants recognition for his JET technique and LTEC shoe fit system?

Then he'll work towards convincing usrsa to include the "revolutionary" technique to its syllabus / certification and allow unbiased RSI review.

mikeler
02-18-2012, 03:57 AM
Lots of "LTC stringer" references above but no "ATP stringer" references. I may have to drive down to SaddleBrook this fall. Always wanted to visit there anyways.

JamesBond
02-18-2012, 04:17 AM
Lots of "LTC stringer" references above but no "ATP stringer" references. I may have to drive down to SaddleBrook this fall. Always wanted to visit there anyways.

quote
drakulie (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/member.php?u=1683)
Talk Tennis Guru

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/image.php?u=1683&dateline=1279239494 (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/member.php?u=1683)

Join Date: May 2004
Location: FT. Lauderdale, Florida
Posts: 22,860


http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/images/icons/icon1.gif
Head Stringer @ the LTC, Babolat Star 4 Stringer
http://www.youtube.com/user/drakulie
unquote

LTC is the famous Club in Fort Lauderdale. Drak has strung at the Delray Beach ATP 250 tournament, so Drak should be considered as a referenced "ATP stringer"
JB

drakulie
02-18-2012, 04:20 AM
James, I WAS at the symposium last year, and have already met John. I have no problems learning and trying out new techniques. The fact that I paid over a thousand dollars to attend last year is a testament to that.

In addition, if you would have read my posts in this thread, you would know I was taught the JET method two years ago. It did not provide the results promised. Period. But like I said earlier, anyone who disagrees must have done something wrong according to you guys.

I have no need to go to saddlebrook again. I will remind that you and/or John are the one promoting this technique/string. It is on you to come to the LTC and or anywhere else to sell your product. I already tried it, and as already mentioned, it does not perform any better or worse than any other string pattern, and certainly doesn't come close to accomplishing what is being advertised.

drakulie
02-18-2012, 04:24 AM
Oh, and LTC is in ft Lauderdale, not Delray beach. I wouldn want you to get lost on your way here.

JamesBond
02-18-2012, 05:10 AM
Oh, and LTC is in ft Lauderdale, not Delray beach. I wouldn want you to get lost on your way here.
Thanks for the infos, I'm from England and not very familier with the area, but Delray Beach is not that far up the coast from the your club. Sorry for the confusion.
JB

GlenK
02-18-2012, 05:12 AM
I'm a tennis player and I hate change.. :grin: Don't change a winning game, if it ain't broke don't fix it, all that stuff.

But I fight that tendency in the face of innovation and continuous improvement. I basically force myself to try anything. I am going to give these strings and method a shot, just for the hell of it.

I did post on G&G for feedback on the test process and they basically recommended what I was planning to try in the first place.

Wil Nat Gut and L-tec at 54/52 and try 52/48 using my standard stringing method to get a good comparison to supersense.

Then try WNG/4S using the JET method at 43-41, then try reversing with 4S mains and gut Xs at same tension.

The poly mains makes me very nervous with concerns for my shoulder but we'll see. Then I also plan to try it with gut mains at 46/44 if the 43/41 feels to low.

All of these should give me a good feel for both this new string and the JET stringing method. Now I just need some good weather to get to work...

RacquetDoctor
02-18-2012, 06:28 AM
Hello Drak,
Thanks for taking the time to read about the JET Method and commenting on what you believe to be true. In fact coming from such an accomplished pro-stringer like yourself it is the perfect example of why our profession as stringers is where it is today. Nothing has changed in years !!

You have the chance to work with one of the best pros in the business, but Craig gets to do all the most interesting stuff and is a well respected technicien for personalizing racquets for the pro-players, this of course a more rewarding part of being a tennis technicien.

You have found your place as the "LTC Head Stringer" where you can churn out more than 30 racqets a day (great for tournaments) and you have strung for some of the most famous players in the world, as well as everyone else at the LTC. Every player (client) gets the same usual service which you can offer day in and day out since many years. You have managed to get to the top of your profession as a stringer and as well as that become the Guru on Talk Tennis with more than 22000 posts (over the last 8 years) contributed to your admirers. You have every reason to be pleased with what you have achieved and self satisfied enough to tell everyone what you think every day. Many will believe you and perhaps some others, like me, are less convinced by some of your opinions.

You are in a situation where you are well respected as a top quality stringer for the players wanting consistent results evrytime you string their racquets. Any variation from your usual way of stringing will cause you more problems than anything else. So why take the risk to change anything at all in what you have been doing year in and year out since the first year that you learnt how to string ?? Obviously it is not in your interest to change your role as the Head Stringer at the LTC, you are already at the top of your profession.

If by chance, one of the guys who works with you is ambitious enough to want to improve his status from stringer to stringer/advisor for his players, knowing that the Head Stringer is still young and will probably keep his present position for many years to come, there may well be an opportunity for him to find a place in CB's Team as a respected craftsman in stringing, without in any way being a threat to the place held by head stringer. That way there's a way to offer a new service to the players who would like to find solutions to help them to play tennis better . . . .

All depends on how you look at it, our points of view are obviously quite different, never the less I have lots respect for what you do, the success that you have made of yourself by being excellent at what you best.

Seeing that you can openly criticise anything else in stringing that is not the same as what you believe to be best, I feel that you are over-stepping your personal aptitudes to express a well founded opinion. Ignorence is not a justifiable excuse for making an allegation which is blatantly incorrect : "Unfortunately, it doesn't provide any results promised".

If you had taken the necessary training to learn the JET Method and if you took the time to apply this method of stringing every day for a couple of months, then you would completely revise your opinion, but you and I both know that this will not happen. So let's simplify the situation, it would be preferable that you show more respect for John Elliot, because he also is at the top of his profession, which is not the same as yours.

The LTC is close enough to the Saddlebrook Ressort, come to see us for a day during the next GSS Symposium, I am certain that you could spend a few hours in the string-room with John, you will not be disappointed, he loves sharing experiences with stringers who are obsessed by their profession.
Best regards,
JB

Wow...
I read the response, and was unsure as to what to say.

I think that Drak is essentially correct. There is nothing new here. The idea of promoting a relationship between the stringer and player isn't new. The JET method is being promoted as new, but it's more of a new twist on an old one, again, it's all John E's but still...

Attacking Drak personally is where I have the issue. Personal attacks to me tell me that he's struck a cord with you. Leave the personal stuff out. You'll fair far better with real results that back up your claims...

As far as the L-Tec strings go, well, they are trying to be the 'known quantity' with stringers using the JET method. I would expect the results to be reproduceable...Stringway has ALWAYS said that it's the string that's the unknown quantity. It's the basis of the stringway advisor system ( I wouldn't be surprised if JE is the founder of that too, or if he was a major contributor in developing it).

Cheers!

Mark -
former ATP stringer and all around good guy. :)

alidisperanza
02-18-2012, 09:22 AM
Hello Drak,
Thanks for taking the time to read about the JET Method and commenting on what you believe to be true. In fact coming from such an accomplished pro-stringer like yourself it is the perfect example of why our profession as stringers is where it is today. Nothing has changed in years !!

You have the chance to work with one of the best pros in the business, but Craig gets to do all the most interesting stuff and is a well respected technicien for personalizing racquets for the pro-players, this of course a more rewarding part of being a tennis technicien.

You have found your place as the "LTC Head Stringer" where you can churn out more than 30 racqets a day (great for tournaments) and you have strung for some of the most famous players in the world, as well as everyone else at the LTC. Every player (client) gets the same usual service which you can offer day in and day out since many years. You have managed to get to the top of your profession as a stringer and as well as that become the Guru on Talk Tennis with more than 22000 posts (over the last 8 years) contributed to your admirers. You have every reason to be pleased with what you have achieved and self satisfied enough to tell everyone what you think every day. Many will believe you and perhaps some others, like me, are less convinced by some of your opinions.

You are in a situation where you are well respected as a top quality stringer for the players wanting consistent results evrytime you string their racquets. Any variation from your usual way of stringing will cause you more problems than anything else. So why take the risk to change anything at all in what you have been doing year in and year out since the first year that you learnt how to string ?? Obviously it is not in your interest to change your role as the Head Stringer at the LTC, you are already at the top of your profession.

If by chance, one of the guys who works with you is ambitious enough to want to improve his status from stringer to stringer/advisor for his players, knowing that the Head Stringer is still young and will probably keep his present position for many years to come, there may well be an opportunity for him to find a place in CB's Team as a respected craftsman in stringing, without in any way being a threat to the place held by head stringer. That way there's a way to offer a new service to the players who would like to find solutions to help them to play tennis better . . . .

All depends on how you look at it, our points of view are obviously quite different, never the less I have lots respect for what you do, the success that you have made of yourself by being excellent at what you best.

Seeing that you can openly criticise anything else in stringing that is not the same as what you believe to be best, I feel that you are over-stepping your personal aptitudes to express a well founded opinion. Ignorence is not a justifiable excuse for making an allegation which is blatantly incorrect : "Unfortunately, it doesn't provide any results promised".

If you had taken the necessary training to learn the JET Method and if you took the time to apply this method of stringing every day for a couple of months, then you would completely revise your opinion, but you and I both know that this will not happen. So let's simplify the situation, it would be preferable that you show more respect for John Elliot, because he also is at the top of his profession, which is not the same as yours.

The LTC is close enough to the Saddlebrook Ressort, come to see us for a day during the next GSS Symposium, I am certain that you could spend a few hours in the string-room with John, you will not be disappointed, he loves sharing experiences with stringers who are obsessed by their profession.
Best regards,
JB

Whoah. Drak and I may have not agreed over a post or two in the past but things never got personal... this... was uncalled for.

My question is the following. If this stringing method is so revolutionary, why is it just catching a hot streak now with the promotion of a new product; hasn't it been around for (2) years?

I'm personally testing the stringing method with an open mind and we'll see but if every representative for the company/method is as courteous as you, I'm out. The product should speak for it's self.

http://assets.pakwheels.com/forums/2010/attachments/Non-Wheels-Discussions/358152-Namak-Mirchi-Club-Of-Pakwheels--------mother-of-god-meme.jpg

equinox
02-18-2012, 10:46 AM
Whoah. Drak and I may have not agreed over a post or two in the past but things never got personal... this... was uncalled for.

My question is the following. If this stringing method is so revolutionary, why is it just catching a hot streak now with the promotion of a new product; hasn't it been around for (2) years?

I'm personally testing the stringing method with an open mind and we'll see but if every representative for the company/method is as courteous as you, I'm out. The product should speak for it's self.


Agreed, draks comments were fairly restrained considering JB original venomous posting has been edited.

JamesBond
02-18-2012, 11:35 AM
James, I WAS at the symposium last year, and have already met John. I have no problems learning and trying out new techniques. The fact that I paid over a thousand dollars to attend last year is a testament to that.

In addition, if you would have read my posts in this thread, you would know I was taught the JET method two years ago. It did not provide the results promised. Period. But like I said earlier, anyone who disagrees must have done something wrong according to you guys.

I have no need to go to saddlebrook again. I will remind that you and/or John are the one promoting this technique/string. It is on you to come to the LTC and or anywhere else to sell your product. I already tried it, and as already mentioned, it does not perform any better or worse than any other string pattern, and certainly doesn't come close to accomplishing what is being advertised.
Hello Drak,
As I only know you as Drakulie, I was not aware of your presence at the GSS Symposium this year and I asked John Elliot if he knows you personally, but without your name it's not easy, however your photo does ring a bell.

It has been pointed out by RacquetDoctor and alidisperanza that my post is a personal attack on you, or too personal, and that "this is uncalled for". I do understand and have to agree with these comments.

This was not the motivation of my post, but it is evident that it can be interpreted as such and I sincerely apologize for my lack of good manners which must be respected by all of us here at all times.

I have edited the original post, which now, without the paragraph in question, makes my difference of opinion with you just as clear, but I think that it can no longer be considered as being too personal.

Sorry, I can't change the copies of the initial text which have been quoted in several posts, unless edited they will remain as a reminder that even I can show a lack of respect to my fellow stringers.

It's almost ironical because what I was asking from you was that you have more respect as well. Two wrongs don't make a right, but I have taken a small step to try to make things better.
Cheers,
James
PS. Next time I'm in Miami I will call you, it would be my pleasure to drive up to see you at the LTC, I owe you a big cold one :cool:

Torres
02-18-2012, 11:59 AM
If you had taken the necessary training to learn the JET Method......... etc

I've seen devil worshipping cults that exhibit less brainwashing than you do....your previous comments (now edited) really don't give a good impression of the JET cult.

Drakulie's fully entitled to his view. If he doesn't think that the JET method produces the results claimed, then he doesn't think it produces the results claimed. I certainly know that I've wasted several sets of string trying out the various Jaycee/JET/whatever you want to call it methods with no tangible benefits.

fortun8son
02-18-2012, 11:58 PM
Hello Drak,
As I only know you as Drakulie, I was not aware of your presence at the GSS Symposium this year and I asked John Elliot if he knows you personally, but without your name it's not easy, however your photo does ring a bell.

It has been pointed out by RacquetDoctor and alidisperanza that my post is a personal attack on you, or too personal, and that "this is uncalled for". I do understand and have to agree with these comments.

This was not the motivation of my post, but it is evident that it can be interpreted as such and I sincerely apologize for my lack of good manners which must be respected by all of us here at all times.

I have edited the original post, which now, without the paragraph in question, makes my difference of opinion with you just as clear, but I think that it can no longer be considered as being too personal.

Sorry, I can't change the copies of the initial text which have been quoted in several posts, unless edited they will remain as a reminder that even I can show a lack of respect to my fellow stringers.

It's almost ironical because what I was asking from you was that you have more respect as well. Two wrongs don't make a right, but I have taken a small step to try to make things better.
Cheers,
James
PS. Next time I'm in Miami I will call you, it would be my pleasure to drive up to see you at the LTC, I owe you a big cold one :cool:
Well, that's about as good of a public apology as anyone could ask for.
Well done, Good Show. Word.

It's too bad that some of our brethren don't know how to be a 'mensch' and apologize for their heated rhetoric.
Of course, some are just as mean and petty as they come across..

stringwalla
02-19-2012, 03:39 PM
don't want to spend the time to read every response but............

I'm acquainted with Jaycee and like him. I respect his enthusiasm and accomplishments.

But seriously, the pros making millions off the equipment they use on court have never once asked me to implement the "JET technique" during a tournament.

Don't you think such a great thing would have trickled to the top if it was that much better than the standard method-

Hitman99
02-20-2012, 05:39 AM
don't want to spend the time to read every response but............


Don't you think such a great thing would have trickled to the top if it was that much better than the standard method-

Touring pros bring several rackets to the court, switch rackets every set --- or even more often. Why would they be interested in a method which could increase the longevity of their strings?

alidisperanza
02-21-2012, 03:29 PM
Just got new strings in and went to string up one my frames for "Jet" attempt no. 2. The instructions have changed since I last checked this out. It seems like they added an extra main, got rid of the double pull, the finger tuning, and adjusted the tensions a bit. Is it just me or is the stringing method getting closer and closer to normal?

mad dog1
02-21-2012, 03:35 PM
Just got new strings in and went to string up one my frames for "Jet" attempt no. 2. The instructions have changed since I last checked this out. It seems like they added an extra main, got rid of the double pull, the finger tuning, and adjusted the tensions a bit. Is it just me or is the stringing method getting closer and closer to normal?

the double pulling is only if you're using stringway floating clamps on a stringway machine.

alidisperanza
02-21-2012, 03:37 PM
Again, double pulling implying pulling the last two outside mains together? Or double pulling implying the pull, sit, release and pull again?

mad dog1
02-21-2012, 03:39 PM
Again, double pulling implying pulling the last two outside mains together? Or double pulling implying the pull, sit, release and pull again?

the former, not the latter.

alidisperanza
02-21-2012, 03:44 PM
Argh... Even so, the method seems to be evolving... backwards!

mad dog1
02-21-2012, 03:47 PM
Argh... Even so, the method seems to be evolving... backwards!

not really...i'll email you later.

rdis10093
02-21-2012, 03:50 PM
so if I like alu rough @53lbs, will I like Ltec?

fortun8son
02-21-2012, 03:54 PM
Touring pros bring several rackets to the court, switch rackets every set --- or even more often. Why would they be interested in a method which could increase the longevity of their strings?

And why would tournament stringers use a method that would add a minimum of 10 minutes(hold each string 20sec before clamping) to every stringjob?

Just because it is not practical at the tournament level, however, does not mean that it has no benefits for the non-pro at which it is aimed.

Hmm... a triple negative. Sweet.

lefty10spro
02-21-2012, 04:38 PM
Those of us in the business for a long time have a term for all this foolishness - voodoo stringing. Not that we are closed minded, but show us the science (not opinion) that backs up any of these claims. Warren Bosworth (he knew ALL the science) would have a field day with JET.

fortun8son
02-21-2012, 05:22 PM
Their marketing strategy seems to mirror those of Self-Help/Be Rich Seminars.
Effective, but annoying cult stuff.
I wonder if they have a 'Mountain Retreat Seminar'?

alidisperanza
02-21-2012, 08:02 PM
not really...i'll email you later.

Well, Instead of 3, now it's 4 mains on each side that are @ reference tension in a 16x19 for a total of 8 mains. 5 and 6 are 4lbs lower, 8 at reference tension and the last string at 4lbs over for the tie off. If you think about it, the only difference from typical stringing aside from the skipping of 7 is the drop in tension by 4 lbs. Most stringers on an electric machine use the tie off button for their last main which jumps tension by ~5lbs for the last pull to begin with. In total that leaves 2 mains on either side that are changed.

Granted, the cross stringing is a bit different but otherwise the "process" is getting closer to typical stringing, no?

Note; I'm not bashing it, I just found it very curious. The "Jet" or JayCee method has been around for 2 years with little to no notice and the stringing method seemed to be so particular that one needed an expensive course to become a master stringer. Now that there's been a blow-up in publicity, it's changing? Again, I'm not trying to be negative, just observing to the best of my ability. In fact, I'm about to go string up a racquet right now with their instructions. We'll see how it plays.

mad dog1
02-21-2012, 10:17 PM
^^ nevermind then...i just got back now and it looks like you're doing just fine now so no need to send an email. :)

Irvin
02-22-2012, 02:57 AM
Again, double pulling implying pulling the last two outside mains together? Or double pulling implying the pull, sit, release and pull again?

Actually both.. In the method you mentioned it was for fixed clamp and in the one where the two outside mains were pulled at the same time it was for the tirple clamp. The JET Method was designed for constant pull machines. If you are using a crank machine you should pull one release and pull again on every string. This gives the crank the ability to emulate the pulling of a CP.

Hitman99
02-22-2012, 05:47 AM
And why would tournament stringers use a method that would add a minimum of 10 minutes(hold each string 20sec before clamping) to every stringjob?

Just because it is not practical at the tournament level, however, does not mean that it has no benefits for the non-pro at which it is aimed.
.

I think you may have hit the nail on the head. Seems to me that much of the resistance to the JET method has to do with its effect on the stringers and their time constraints, not on the players and their rackets.

On the other hand, I would also think that if the JET method really resulted in dramatic gains in playability (not just durability), the touring pros would be demanding it, regardless of how long the string job takes.

Interesting dynamic playing out.....

KerryR
02-22-2012, 05:49 AM
For a while, the JayCee method involved pushing down hard on all the mains, from outer to inner, to push the slack from the outside to the center, which would produce a drop in plucked tune as you approach the center mains (referred to as 'tuning'). It was said that this made the racket immediately play well, avoiding a protracted break-in phase, but, obviously, produces a state opposite progressive stringing. The new JET disposes of that, probably because it'd be near impossible to do quantitatively.

It does indeed seem like JET is gradually becoming much closer to normal stringing, minus the skips to move tie-off closer to the last string.

The skips also ensure the outside mains, and the top and bottom crosses are tensioned well. This should help thwart, a little, the common practice of players judging a string jpb by giving these strings a tug or two to assess their tightness...

GlenK
02-22-2012, 06:05 AM
^^I tried it for the first time yesterday with Wil Nat Gut and L-Tec 4S and haven't had time for an extensive write up. But on pre-stringing the last two mains and pulling 9 first, then tensioning 8, resulted in having to bridge the last two pulls on each side with a starting clamp instead of only the last one.
I split a full set of gut in half for one set of mains and that cuts it extremely close on those final two pulls.

I did put a piece of scrap string in the holes requiring tension changes just to remind me it was time to change it. (yes I'm old - lol) Also, the racquet did distort 1/16". Using my normal method there is no distortion.

This was a test at a tension of 43/41. That tension was just to low for me with natural gut. It felt and sounded like I was hitting the ball with a tin cup.
The only positive thing was massive amounts of spin on my second serve. Next try will be with about 6-7 more lbs of tension.

GlenK
02-22-2012, 06:31 AM
Couple more things. I also preplanned the job with the pull order and exact tension for each string. Posted this on G&G to confirm I did it right and they agreed.
This was a good guide during stringing and combined with the scrap string in the next tension change hole worked great!!
Also used iPhone stop watch to time the 20 second pulls. That's a long time..


Mains 18 - 43 lbs Reference Tension – Slow pull, at least 5 seconds

Pull Order Tension
# 1 to 4 both sides……….43 lbs
# 5 to 7 both sides……….39 lbs
# 9 both sides……………..43 lbs
# 8 both sides……………..47 lbs
#7 - Tie off

Crosses 20 - 41 lbs Reference Tension – Slow pull, at least 20 seconds

Pull Order Tension
# 1 to 3……………..45 lbs
# 4 to 18……………39 lbs
# 20………………….45 lbs
# 19………………….45 lbs
Tie off on 3rd from bottom.

alidisperanza
02-22-2012, 08:03 AM
For a while, the JayCee method involved pushing down hard on all the mains, from outer to inner, to push the slack from the outside to the center, which would produce a drop in plucked tune as you approach the center mains (referred to as 'tuning'). It was said that this made the racket immediately play well, avoiding a protracted break-in phase, but, obviously, produces a state opposite progressive stringing. The new JET disposes of that, probably because it'd be near impossible to do quantitatively.

It does indeed seem like JET is gradually becoming much closer to normal stringing, minus the skips to move tie-off closer to the last string.

The skips also ensure the outside mains, and the top and bottom crosses are tensioned well. This should help thwart, a little, the common practice of players judging a string jpb by giving these strings a tug or two to assess their tightness...

THANK YOU! I was trying to make that point the other day. Also, I agree and like the skip 7 and come back to it. In addition with the close tie-offs, I feel like it holds the tension much better than the typical outer tie offs.

^^I tried it for the first time yesterday with Wil Nat Gut and L-Tec 4S and haven't had time for an extensive write up. But on pre-stringing the last two mains and pulling 9 first, then tensioning 8, resulted in having to bridge the last two pulls on each side with a starting clamp instead of only the last one.
I split a full set of gut in half for one set of mains and that cuts it extremely close on those final two pulls.

I did put a piece of scrap string in the holes requiring tension changes just to remind me it was time to change it. (yes I'm old - lol) Also, the racquet did distort 1/16". Using my normal method there is no distortion.

This was a test at a tension of 43/41. That tension was just to low for me with natural gut. It felt and sounded like I was hitting the ball with a tin cup.
The only positive thing was massive amounts of spin on my second serve. Next try will be with about 6-7 more lbs of tension.

Glen, what frame are you using again? I figure it's a 18x20 but I'm surprised that 20' won't cut it. Maybe it's the lack of stretching from the lower tension.
Edit: Nvm, saw your signature.

spacediver
02-22-2012, 09:12 AM
Just because it is not practical at the tournament level, however, does not mean that it has no benefits for the non-pro at which it is aimed.

Hmm... a triple negative. Sweet.

arguably a quadruple negative with the "non-pro" :)

GlenK
02-22-2012, 10:46 AM
Glen, what frame are you using again? I figure it's a 18x20 but I'm surprised that 20' won't cut it. Maybe it's the lack of stretching from the lower tension.
Edit: Nvm, saw your signature.

It is 18x20. Stick is in the signature. Yea, it's always close and the last string always requires a bridge with a clamp. But pre-stringing it just takes up all the slack and there's just enough to get the knot tied to finish it off.

JamesBond
02-22-2012, 10:54 AM
^^I tried it for the first time yesterday with Wil Nat Gut and L-Tec 4S and haven't had time for an extensive write up. But on pre-stringing the last two mains and pulling 9 first, then tensioning 8, resulted in having to bridge the last two pulls on each side with a starting clamp instead of only the last one.
I split a full set of gut in half for one set of mains and that cuts it extremely close on those final two pulls . .
GlenK,
May I suggest that you string the 4S in the mains and the natural gut in the crosses. The 4S will give you much better control and a stiffer stringbed than the gut in the mains.
When splitting a set of gut you are lucky to have enough to make 2 main strings, you did well with the job that you did. You will have more than enough for the crosses with the 2nd piece.
JB

GlenK
02-23-2012, 04:35 AM
Thanks JB, I will try that. I've only tried gut as a cross once and didn't like it, so when I do it, it will probably be last. I like the feel of gut dominating the string bed.

Have about 4 more sets up to try with this string and technique. Might as well add that to the list!!

With a new string AND new stinging technique it's tough to sort out which you like or don't like!! Appreciate the suggestion!

alidisperanza
02-23-2012, 07:19 AM
It is 18x20. Stick is in the signature. Yea, it's always close and the last string always requires a bridge with a clamp. But pre-stringing it just takes up all the slack and there's just enough to get the knot tied to finish it off.

UGH! Glen, I understand your frustration... I strung up a LM Radical last night and went to use my standard length of string... came up short. Normally it's not that much of an issue because I can bridge it-- not this time. Nubs were too short to tie knots :( Half set of B5E relegated to a 16x19 practice frame :(

GlenK
02-23-2012, 11:12 AM
Oh wow, that sucks... I generally measure each set of gut and it's always a few inches short of 40' so it's always close.
Been lucky so far and always able to finish. I know my day will come sooner or later... good luck!!!

heartattack
04-07-2012, 07:30 PM
Also I'm Just curious with this new jet technique over old method of stringing. i think it will relatively even out the tension. & loss of tension would pretty much the same. but the spin production of this jet technique is much more compared to the old one.

nalvarado
04-08-2012, 10:31 AM
UGH! Glen, I understand your frustration... I strung up a LM Radical last night and went to use my standard length of string... came up short. Normally it's not that much of an issue because I can bridge it-- not this time. Nubs were too short to tie knots :( Half set of B5E relegated to a 16x19 practice frame :(

Happened to me yesterday. A friend brought in a set of Blackcode, yet the set only measured 38 feet :(. A bit off topic, but has anyone successfully gotten a replacement set from TF from this?

Lefty78
05-16-2012, 11:47 AM
Warren Bosworth (he knew ALL the science) would have a field day with JET.

Good one!

Reminds me of one of these proportional stringing gurus who came into Bosworth a few years back. I think it was the "Starmaker" system or some such mumbo jumbo.

Anyway, the guy strung up a frame as a demonstration, and the result was a ProStaff that measured only 26" long and had a round head.

KerryR
05-16-2012, 12:19 PM
FWIW, JET does not usually create a distorted frame if done properly.

If it does, tension on the mains on the next re-string can be increased or decreased to reduce or eliminate it. Hybrids, of course, can be more difficult in this regard.

It's also worth noting that JET is not really attempting to be proportional in the traditional sense (though the comparatively small reduction of tension on M 4&5 (or 3,4 and 5, depending) on a 16x19 might emulate this a little), but rather (almost) exclusively focuses on stringing technique that reduces the rapid loss of tension commonly observed in full-poly setups. It's primary attribute is a full-poly setup that requires very little 'break in' (this is pretty palpable) and retains tension longer than 'traditional' stringing methods (don't really know about this one).

Most of this 'lives' in JET as not over stretching the strings (i.e. string at lower tensions and pull slowly) and reducing tie off tension loss by placing the tie off close to the last string and by increasing tension near the last mains to account for drop in tension as the knot settles/tightens. Nothing not to like about that, and nothing mystical about it either, IMO.

levy1
05-16-2012, 05:28 PM
Good one!

Reminds me of one of these proportional stringing gurus who came into Bosworth a few years back. I think it was the "Starmaker" system or some such mumbo jumbo.

Anyway, the guy strung up a frame as a demonstration, and the result was a ProStaff that measured only 26" long and had a round head.


What didn't you like about the Jet method after you strung the racket or after you played with one strung with the method?

levy1
05-16-2012, 05:30 PM
FWIW, JET does not usually create a distorted frame if done properly.

If it does, tension on the mains on the next re-string can be increased or decreased to reduce or eliminate it. Hybrids, of course, can be more difficult in this regard.

It's also worth noting that JET is not really attempting to be proportional in the traditional sense (though the comparatively small reduction of tension on M 4&5 (or 3,4 and 5, depending) on a 16x19 might emulate this a little), but rather (almost) exclusively focuses on stringing technique that reduces the rapid loss of tension commonly observed in full-poly setups. It's primary attribute is a full-poly setup that requires very little 'break in' (this is pretty palpable) and retains tension longer than 'traditional' stringing methods (don't really know about this one).

Most of this 'lives' in JET as not over stretching the strings (i.e. string at lower tensions and pull slowly) and reducing tie off tension loss by placing the tie off close to the last string and by increasing tension near the last mains to account for drop in tension as the knot settles/tightens. Nothing not to like about that, and nothing mystical about it either, IMO.

I am on about my 30th Jet method stringing and I agree with everything you said especially about the tension lasting longer. I now string all polys for myself and my customers with the Jet method.

levy1
05-16-2012, 05:32 PM
Also I'm Just curious with this new jet technique over old method of stringing. i think it will relatively even out the tension. & loss of tension would pretty much the same. but the spin production of this jet technique is much more compared to the old one.

Loss of tension is way less, string bed is more evened out and high spin rate.

levy1
05-16-2012, 05:35 PM
GlenK,
May I suggest that you string the 4S in the mains and the natural gut in the crosses. The 4S will give you much better control and a stiffer stringbed than the gut in the mains.
When splitting a set of gut you are lucky to have enough to make 2 main strings, you did well with the job that you did. You will have more than enough for the crosses with the 2nd piece.
JB

JB, with tension recommended around 44 with the 4S and myself using 40/38 with OS/4S and 3S/Premium gut what in the heck can you string natural gut at for the crosses with 4S mains?

levy1
05-16-2012, 05:41 PM
so if I like alu rough @53lbs, will I like Ltec?

If you want that feel with more control I would try the OS/4S at 46. You may have to try a few times to get it right but you will get more playing time and IMO more control with the same crisp feeling.

jmnk
05-16-2012, 07:35 PM
Loss of tension is way less, string bed is more evened out and high spin rate.

if I may ask - how do you measure 'Loss of tension', or 'even-ess' of the string bed', or 'high spin rate'? I'm not questioning anything, just wondering....

Wikky
05-16-2012, 07:53 PM
I think for most of us its just play testing, but there definitely are ways to test it.

levy1
05-17-2012, 05:43 AM
if I may ask - how do you measure 'Loss of tension', or 'even-ess' of the string bed', or 'high spin rate'? I'm not questioning anything, just wondering....

I play tested 12 sets of L-Tec strings (Poly) with the Jet method, then I strung several of my favorite rackets with other poly strings with the Jet method. I was testing the Jet method and L-Tec strings. In my opinion, my results with the Jet method were better ball pocketing and feel, more consistent crosses and mains (using a string meter) and the polys went from about 4 hours of play to 10 hours of play before they went dead. As for the L-Tec it became my best setup and 3 months later I am still testing and trying to duplicate the L-Tec setups (all hybrid) with other manufactures strings with no success. My L-Tec setup lasted 35 hours and I thought I might be crazy so I cut it out and restrung it and could not tell much difference. 35 hours made the L-Tec price reasonable.

KerryR
05-17-2012, 07:47 AM
if I may ask - how do you measure 'Loss of tension', or 'even-ess' of the string bed', or 'high spin rate'? I'm not questioning anything, just wondering....

Loss of tension can be measured with a String Meter and/or a Stringlab type device(s). Eveness of tension can be measured string by string with a String Meter. With the lower tension full poly setups common to JET (ref less than 50ish lbs.), Stringlab type tools often won't work as the DT gets lower than the machine is capable of consistently measuring. Guts and Glory will supposedly soon be releasing a mechanical tester to get around that issue. 'Til then, the string meter is often the tool of choice if DT can't be measured with a Stringlab or ERT.

There's also the subjective measure: As the strings loose tension, control diminishes and balls begin to play deeper than normal. At some point, the strings also feel dead. With poly, this is pretty easy to feel, so it's not too difficult to ascertain how long a stringbed lasts, particularly when it's many hours more than normal for a player.

The best bet is a combination of both of the above: Identify the tension and/or stringbed stiffness when the racket plays well, and again when it no longer does. This serves as a benchmark-- if measurement shows you're approaching your (personal) threshold, it's time for a restring, ideally before your game suffers.

IMO: JET's biggest contribution really isn't the method in and of itself (other than slow, gentle pulls that don't overstretch the string), it's really it's promotion of the low-tension full poly paradigm. It's largely the low tension that allows the strings to maintain their elasticity longer. BUT, this does require adjustment on the part of the player, something many players won't be comfortable with.

icorp
05-17-2012, 09:25 AM
IMO: JET's biggest contribution really isn't the method in and of itself (other than slow, gentle pulls that don't overstretch the string), it's really it's promotion of the low-tension full poly paradigm. It's largely the low tension that allows the strings to maintain their elasticity longer. BUT, this does require adjustment on the part of the player, something many players won't be comfortable with.

May I ask what adjustments are required? Thanks!

KerryR
05-17-2012, 10:44 AM
Most players will need to reduce the size of their backswing and lower the ball, as the pocket will be springier than what many are used to. As a side bonus to reducing the backswing, many players find increased accuracy. The pocket is deeper, but the poly is less elastic, so the racket feels softer but has less power than the same tension in synbut, which would be too springy at these tensions.

Many players, however, find the reduced elasticity of the poly helps keep their shots in.

Some players won't need to adjust as much-- those with already minimal backswings often find they can keep their swing and achieve better depth and accuracy.

See the Guts and Glory Extra blogpost "The Definitive Guide to Playing with Low Tension Polys". (Talk Tennis filters the address, so I couldn't post a direct link. Google will get you there.)

However, I'm of the school of thought that aiming for the 3 foot window produces lower percentage shots for many players (like myself), so I aim higher than that, and, between my reduced backswing and moderate top spin, the ball stays in with better depth than I get with most of the synguts I've tried, with better wear resistance.

levy1
05-25-2012, 05:13 PM
GlenK,
May I suggest that you string the 4S in the mains and the natural gut in the crosses. The 4S will give you much better control and a stiffer stringbed than the gut in the mains.
When splitting a set of gut you are lucky to have enough to make 2 main strings, you did well with the job that you did. You will have more than enough for the crosses with the 2nd piece.
JB
After reading a lot of posts I went back to PMaxx gut mains and OS 18 ga crosses at 52/48. I also strung up OS 18GA with L-Tec synthetic gut at 42/38. Tried them both tonight in 3 sets. Hands down I liked the OS/L-Tec better. It felt better and excellent control. I will try OS mains with Gut crosses.